S04.E09: Jamey & Ari

[leighdear]

Ari wasn't being deceptive to Jamey about her gender. It was just one giant omission. She knew that once she dropped that bomb on him that it would be a dealbreaker.

Ari had no clue if it would be a deal-breaker or not.  She never gave Jamey a chance to decide for himself if it was in fact, a deal-breaker.  And the fact that Ari still had male genitalia  was a very large deception, no matter that SHE identified as female. 

 

Most guys chatting with a woman on predominantly non-LGBT dating site are going to go on the assumption that said woman does NOT have a penis and testicles   Especially if the woman in question has had months to mention it, but has chosen not to. 

Edited April 24, 2015 by leighdear

[kitten59]

I knew Ari was transgendered after seeing some of her photos. I think perhaps she only showed tight shots of her face because she didn't want her Adam's apple to show. I lost any sympathy I had for her after the nasty texts and walking away from Jamey when he wanted to talk. Maybe she wanted to rebuff him before he rebuffed her, but she just handled the whole thing so poorly. At least talk to the poor guy- she owed him that, at least! Nothing but praise for Jamey, however. Great guy.

[jmonkey]

Ari had no clue if it would be a deal-breaker or not.  She never gave Jamey a chance to decide for himself if it was in fact, a deal-breaker.  And the fact that Ari still had male genitalia  was a very large deception, no matter that SHE identified as female. 

 

Most guys chatting with a woman on predominantly non-LGBT dating site are going to go on the assumption that said woman does NOT have a penis and testicles   Especially if the woman in question has had months to mention it, but has chosen not to. 

I get what you're saying here, but the reveal obviously was a deal-breaker for someone-either Jamey or Ari-or else they would be together as a couple considering that they claimed to love each other. Ari either rejected Jamey out of fear that he would reject her or Jamey wasn't comfortable dating a woman with male genitalia. The viewing audience wasn't privy to the private conversations they had on this issue, so we don't know what exactly went down after the show. I'm sure they discussed it further after the show. If they didn't, then Ari really did use Jamey to get on Catfish just so she could have a platform and that sucks.

 

I guess I don't see the relevance of Ari coming clean about her male genitalia because she made it quite clear on her profile that she wanted a relationship with no sex. I'm sure in Ari's mind that she wanted to be judged for the woman she is and, like a regular woman, wanted to meet guys interested in women instead of guys just interested in transwomen. She's possibly revealed her transgender status to people in the past who haven't been as accepting as Jamey was. She's probably tired of being judged for that. Just like most people who appear on this show and are deceitful or not forthcoming with info, she wanted to be given a fair chance that she wouldn't have been given otherwise. Jamey is a great guy, but I'm doubtful that he would have given her a chance if he would've read that she was a transwoman in her profile. I mean, they could have been friends, but they wouldn't have gotten that close that fast.

 

I can understand people might think Ari is a jerk for leading Jamey on by not revealing her big secret sooner as feelings were developing, but it is also my opinion that it's Ari's secret and decision on whom to tell and when to tell it. It could be interpreted as cruel to do it on Catfish to a great guy like Jamey, but I think Ari's story helped more people than it hurt.

[Neurochick]

I can understand people might think Ari is a jerk for leading Jamey on by not revealing her big secret sooner as feelings were developing, but it is also my opinion that it's Ari's secret and decision on whom to tell and when to tell it. It could be interpreted as cruel to do it on Catfish to a great guy like Jamey, but I think Ari's story helped more people than it hurt.

 

 

But if you're going to be in a relationship with another person, you can't only consider yourself.  You have to consider that other person's feelings.  If you don't, you shouldn't be in a relationship.  

[marketdoctor]

 

I guess I don't see the relevance of Ari coming clean about her male genitalia because she made it quite clear on her profile that she wanted a relationship with no sex.

 

It would certainly cut down on the "biological kids from this relationship" argument. 

 

 

...people might think Ari is a jerk for leading Jamey on by not revealing her big secret sooner as feelings were developing, but it is also my opinion that it's Ari's secret and decision on whom to tell and when to tell it.

 

One problem is we don't have a socially agreed-to timetable as to when it's appropriate to reveal that someone is transgender--partly because social acceptance is changing; partly because the Internet expands the dating pool, and partly for reasons I've overlooked.  (And the Jenny Jones case, IIRC, was a gay man who had a crush on a straight man, and there was ALSO a Law & Order episode about a woman who was going to great lengths to hiding her previous gender status from her husband.)  In a perfect world we'd treat it like any other medical condition where people have a more complicated time having kids (which also doesn't have a definite social reveal point), and that she wasn't looking for any kind of sexual relationship was part of the truth and could have been a way to bring it up when things got serious (because most guys would, at some point, ask how firm that would be.)  

 

I agree it was her secret to tell, and I don't know the specifics of the online relationship,  What bothers me is that revealing any "secret" on a national TV show s that it implies total strangers have exactly the same right to know as the person you're telling (which is the flaw of Catfish generally, come to think of it)--but I haven't been there.  It's possible in this case that there's a rationale.  It's also possible that someone young, under great stress and an inadequate support system makes a decision that might not seem right to others with a different perspective (not better, just different.)  Or it could be Ari was really just looking for fame.  We don't know, and that's the other flaw of shows like this (but the advantage of online discussion, so we can try to figure it out.)

[Vicky8675309]

Ari may feel that she is a woman trapped in a man's body but I'm not sure I would call her a woman yet. She (I will say "she") is still male in phenotype (has a penis) and genotype (XY chromosome). Once she has finished the surgery so that her phenotype is female (no longer has a penis and now has a vagina) then I will consider her female (but still chromosome male). I realize I am using the term "phenotype" incorrectly but it best illustrates my point. I fully support one's choice to have their body match their gender identity. This all seems like a tremendous challenge, emotionally, physically, socially, financially, etc….It seems like it must hell (just the hormones alone seem like hell) and must take immense courage/strength/determination for one to change their physical gender to match their true gender identity. I image the challenges in all areas are so much more complex than shown on this show.

About the people on the show, Ari seemed nice but she lied and I wonder why she wanted reveal her "secret" on the show when there are other safe ways to reveal the secret. Jamey seems like a great guy who likely has had some challenges in his life. He was much more enlightened, compassionate and generous than I expected. I liked Jamey. I hope they both find what they are looking for.

[Racj82]

Interesting, but I disagree. I feel that a person should be allowed to make an informed decision about someone, not strung along and then, "surprise!" I don't think your whole history should be told on the first date, but definitely if you are getting emotionally involved, you shouldn't hide it IMO. It's not fair for someone to become emotionally involved with a person who is hiding a secret, for me that makes the person untrustworthy. People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.

yeah I disagree as well. Most men in this world won't see a woman with a penis as a woman. And either way, that's something they are going to want to know as soon as possible. I don't agree with the comparisons made either. This is a huge hill for most men to climb. To even wrap their minds around. They will absolutely feel deceived. If you think you are dating a woman in every sense of the word (that includes a vagina) and you find out that woman had or has a penis, that's absolute deception they will feel. That's not what they are thinking they were getting involved in. It's nothing to do with being rude or disrespectful to said woman. A transgender woman is a woman in her eyes but not everyone is going to feel that way. That's what makes the transition do hard (among other things) but just saying she is a woman, get over it just won't cut it in the dating world. Edited April 25, 2015 by Racj82

[Judois]

Ari's nervousness when she met Jamey made me want to give her a hug. I got tears in my eyes at how she was obviously paralyzed by it. Jamey did what he could to help but he was going through his own awkwardness of the meeting. I like this episode because,hopefully,it can help everyone have a better understanding of what transgenders deal with. And start conversations like the ones in this thread.

[Persnickety1]

So am I the only one who giggled like a 12-year-old of the irony of Jamey being a "meat cutter" and Ari being pre-surgical?  

 

I'll show myself out now....

Edited April 25, 2015 by Persnickety1

[cheatincheetos]

Me either. I am in no way saying that the issues @ hand aren't serious.... But, I just happen to see something funny in the episode.... I am glad I ain't the only one who can see the humor in the episode....;-)

 

BTW. cheatincheetos, Is that a picture of Leah from Teen Mom in your avatar? It looks just like her....

yep, with her true love Robbie...

[ladyrott]

The trans world was my world for a long time (best friend is FTM and ex-husband is an MTF) so my heart hurt for Ari.   I know she didn't MEAN any harm and I believe that she just got in over her head with Jamey and had no idea when the "right time" to tell him had arrived and then long past.  I honestly think when she told Jamey she would only meet him on Catfish she (1) didn't think he would ever get on the show and (2) he might take the decision out of her hands by dumping her (since she was obviously hiding something if she wanted to meet on Catfish).  That said, I also think Ari was in the wrong for being on a straight dating site.  It's not like there are not LGBT dating sites out there.  Even if she wasn't looking for romance, I know at least 2 of those sites that say "looking for friends ONLY" as an option.   The fact that she chose a conventional site screams to me that she was wanting to see if she could attract a "regular guy".  I wouldn't even hold that against her, IF she had just talked to a couple of guys a few times to complete her "experiment" and then walked away.  But to develop a "relationship" with one of those guys was unfair...and I think she knew that since I took her descent into bitchiness as a defense mechanism and a (admittedly poor) way to deal with her guilt.

 

Now Jamey, Jamey seems like a truly awesome guy.  He was shocked, of course, but he didn't act like a loudmouth bully.  He didn't call Ari names, or even call her out on what she did.  I thought his sitting down with her and asking her a reasonable, and accepting (in my eyes), question about when she knew she was transgendered showed him to be a class act and a truly nice guy.  Maybe he wouldn't have wanted to continue the romantic relationship but Ari didn't even give him a chance.  Jamey said several times how the two of them had talked about very personal things so I have a feeling he would have at least continued a friendship if she hadn't acted the way she had. 

[Arienne]

Transwomen are women. Men don't need to be gay to date them.

I am sorry. I thought they said she had not had the surgery yet. I was thinking if she hadn't had surgery it would be kind of like being gay.

 

I should pay closer attention.    Carry on

[tinadawn123]

I actually felt bad for Jamey. Its so hard to trust people as it is. I know first hand from being on dating sites. All you ask for is honesty. I don't think that's too much to ask. When somebody does this to you it makes it that much harder to trust...

[Momof2boyz]

I am sorry. I thought they said she had not had the surgery yet. I was thinking if she hadn't had surgery it would be kind of like being gay.

 

I should pay closer attention.    Carry on

She DID say she hadn't had the surgery yet but she was planning to. She was Pre-op. The OP was saying trans women are women regardless of genitalia I assume.

[liljdawg531]

What a good episode this one was