Emma Swan: 1000% done with your infuriating optimism

[daxx]

Hook is reasonably intelligent when not forced to take the Idiot Ball. You can't last as long as he has, in so risky a "profession" as pirate, without some innate intelligence.

Also, a naval lieutenant, a navigator, would have been very educated. Math, geometry, etc.

[KingOfHearts]

I'm actually surprised how little this arc has had to do with Emma herself. Maybe I'm not looking at the right scenes. We've seen more of Camelot and how others have reacted to her darkness, rather than just her struggle itself. I'd like to see more of Not!Rumple persuading her, as those scenes give us insight into what she's thinking.

I'd like see an Emma flashback post-Neal some time. It would be awesome to see her doing bailbondswoman stuff.

[Camera One]

We'll only get that if Merlin manipulated her life some other way later on.  Wouldn't be surprised..

[KAOS Agent]

I've always thought a fun Emma flashback would be to show her as a bailbondsperson chasing after a fairy tale character who gets away in the past and then tying that into her chasing him/her in the present. 

[buildmeupbuttercup]

Still Team Emma show. I can't wait for the idiots in her family to realize all she's doing is to protect them all like she always does. She saved all their asses and even as the Dark One is still doing it. Also? Breaking Henrys heart wasn't the evil deed. Ripping out the heart of a 13 year old child is show. So call me when Violet goes off on Emma for physically hurting her over Henry who puts Emma on this unbelievable pedestal compared to his other mother who he was once afraid of.

So I haven’t posted for months because for my own sanity I have been trying to be more zen about watching this show and not letting little details bother me but this episode pushed me over the edge.

 

The writers can make all the “parallels” they want of Emma-is-the-new-Cora but sorry I’m still 100% Team Emma.  Agreed that the evil deed is ripping the 13 year old girl’s heart out not Henry’s heartache but even that is nowhere near Cora-level evil. Maybe I’m in the minority, but instead of being horrified my reaction was Emma’s gotta help herself because surely the “no shortage of people who want to help you” gang haven’t been moving things along. I don’t know where we are supposed to be in this 6 week Camelot timeframe but so far we have:

• Henry: more concerned with getting a date with his new crush and showing off his inappropriate movie collection on his unnaturally super-charged cell phone,
• Snowing: more concerned with being named a Round Table knight and showing all their cards to the shady king they’re suspicious of—before getting sanded and then frozen an episode later,
• Regina: too concerned being the “savior” and researching getting Merlin out, which we know from Arthur is anywhere from a 5-year to “many years ago” task so we’re looking end of Season 6 to just get Merlin free, so yeah if that’s the amount of “help” Emma’s receiving by those around her I’m sorry if I don’t get sufficiently horrified when she takes the, albeit “evil”, steps to move things the hell along.

 

I had the same reaction of others that a HUUUGE plot hole in the ep was WTF was Hook but guess I can see where it would be easier for the writers to just completely gloss over it rather than to try to think up a lame excuse for him not being around because from being the one who doesn’t want to waste time at a ball to being the only person to bring up “Hey Merlin, you think you can do what we came here for and get the evil outta Emma?” he’s really the only one on this Save Emma mission who isn’t getting distracted and is actually trying to SAVE EMMA.

 

And now to Storybrooke…

I really didn’t think it was possible to sink the Emma/Snowing relationship any further than it was in 4B but man they are trying hard in these first 5 episodes. So the “we never give up” Charmings find out they failed Emma in Camelot and now decide since she’s a lost cause and they should be the best hosts to the Camelot Cavalry instead? Yeah we have gotten a couple “if we win Emma loses”, “how did Emma fall so far”, and Charming throwing shit around the station in frustration but THEY PLANNED A FREAKING CARNIVAL WHILE THEIR DAUGHTER IS DARK. And they haven’t made a single attempt to talk to her! Yes Regina has mostly interacted with her because of trying to save Robin and about Henry but geez even she has lines like “there’s nothing you can’t come back from if you just tell us”, “I was seeing the good in you”, and “I thought you could escape the darkness”. Snowing? Nada. Right now Regina cares more about Emma than her own parents.  I can see that and I HATE Regina.

 

From the episode thread:

Nice reminder from him in this episode that he bought Emma to Storybrooke so she could devote her life to the service of these ungrateful fucks.

 

This is exactly why I find no value in the Emma/Henry relationship, because Henry will never choose Emma for just Emma. Still not over him passing down the Savior mantle to Regina in 5x02. Swan Believer can die a thousand horrible deaths in pits of fire.

 

And no, Emma, Henry wasn't bringing you home, he was bringing you to break a curse and expose Regina as the Evil Queen.

 

I'm dead serious when I say Emma should just get the hell out of town. I was so hoping it would happen during this arc.

Then there’s Henry and Swan Believer. Yeah I’ve already been horrified by Henry’s actions these first 5 episodes. Last season he basically stopped living his life to stare at the storybook all day and find the damn author to give Regina her happy ending and so far this season we’ve seen him chilling at Granny’s, sipping Big Gulps while readings and texting his new Camelot crush while his mom took on the greatest darkness in the land. Yeah all of that has been shitty but the quote that actually prompted this entire post was:

“Your mission isn’t over”

The hell it isn’t! Look I get that they’ve changed the rules since Season 1 and being the Savior has gone from breaking the curse to knocking on everyone’s door and physically bringing their happy endings to them so they don’t have to do any of the heavy living themselves but gimme an effing break. No, I’m sorry you ungrateful little shit but I’d say her “mission” gets to be on hold since she, you know, took on the greatest darkness to save anyone—without even a thank you from any of them. Now she has to get happy endings for every person who even visits Storybrooke? The end line keeps moving? Seriously, I wish Dark Swan was selfish enough to just give all these guys the finger grab Hook and just sail away out of Storybrooke—since they can’t leave the town any other way because of the tree business. Because yes without a trace of shipper goggles I can saw unequivocally with what we have been shown that Killian “I can spend at least [centuries] trying to save the woman I love” Jones is the only character who has shown he cares about Emma the person, not Emma the Savior, above anything else. I’m so glad she has him but the rest of her relationships just make me so sad.

[YaddaYadda]

Because yes without a trace of shipper goggles I can saw unequivocally with what we have been shown that Killian “I can spend at least [centuries] trying to save the woman I love” Jones is the only character who has shown he cares about Emma the person, not Emma the Savior, above anything else. I’m so glad she has him but the rest of her relationships just make me so sad.

 

This will forever bother me. And it really goes back to 3B (even 3x02, when Snow was insisting Emma say that she's the Savior). Emma wasn't needed, the Savior was. 

 

Does anyone remember that Zelena line from 3x17 before she cursed Hook's lips? She ordered him to kiss Emma that way, he would be taking everything that makes her special. And this is exactly how most everyone sees her. Emma is special because she's the Savior, and because she has light magic. Everything else to who she is, her experiences as a little girl, a jailed teenage mom, a bail's bond person, her pain, her losses that made her so scared of getting in a relationship with a man she clearly had a thing for, her joys, none of this matters because that would inform too much on a person who is literally there to save people's asses with her good magic.

 

Now that she has dark magic, she's not so special anymore. 

 

I still don't get how it is possible that after 5 episodes, she has had 0 scenes with her parents. What's up with that? And that whole line about them wishing she would see them was so out of place. 

 

Snowing have always given up so easily and quickly on Emma.

Edited October 27, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[shoregirl]

I could quote your whole post because it's so spot on.

Snowing have always given up so easily and quickly on Emma.

Well Snow has her baby she can raise from an infant now. Emma's dark now so she's might not be able to save the town anymore so why try to save her? Good forbid Regina needs help because Snow might risk her life to help her but her own daughter is on her own to figure it out. Snowing and the rest of the town , save for Hook, will take and take from Emma and just expect it from her and now that she's needs help instead of doing anything to try they throw a fucking party because they can't be bad hosts or something. No wonder Emma doesn't talk to them have they even tried to approach her?

[Curio]

So I haven’t posted for months because for my own sanity I have been trying to be more zen about watching this show and not letting little details bother me but this episode pushed me over the edge.

 

I appreciate your efforts to retain your sanity, but in a way, I'm glad the show drove you over the edge because your entire post was awesome to read.

 

Snowing: more concerned with being named a Round Table knight and showing all their cards to the shady king they’re suspicious of—before getting sanded and then frozen an episode later

I still don't get how it is possible that after 5 episodes, she has had 0 scenes with her parents. What's up with that? And that whole line about them wishing she would see them was so out of place.

 

It boggles my mind how little the writers care about the Snow/Charming/Emma dynamic. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised they've had nearly zero interactions when pre-season interviews had the show runners saying, "We're really interested in exploring how the people who are the closest to Emma—Hook and Regina—will deal with her darkness." In Adam & Eddy's minds, Emma's parents have officially been demoted from the Top 3 Circle of people closest to Emma. (Objectively speaking, I feel like at this point it goes: Hook/Henry flip-flopping at #1 and #2, and Regina at #3 for some asinine reason.) So if Charming and Snow are stuck at #4 and #5, then I guess it kind of makes sense that they're off throwing parties and Granny's, going on truck jousting quests, and throwing carnivals instead of actually going and attempting to speak to Emma at her mansion. Have they even tried walking up to the door and knocking?

 

I was so certain Snowing would have an important part to play with Emma after Emma begged them in the finale to help her with the darkness, but I now realize that was just classic A&E bait and switch. I couldn't even enjoy the short scene with Snow helping Emma get ready for the ball because it was tainted by the scene of Charming dancing with Regina and everyone being forced to gawk at "Savior Regina" at the ball.

 

#StillTeamEmma

Edited October 27, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

Good forbid Regina needs help because Snow might risk her life to help her but her own daughter is on her own to figure it out.

 

Which she basically did when Regina was trying to trade her life for Robin's.

 

Meanwhile, Emma has the dagger, and is about to sacrifice her soul to the darkness, let's just stand off in the corner over there. I would've been okay with Snowing had ran to their daughter the way Robin ran to Regina and been blasted off. It shows that at least, they tried. But they didn't.

 

I was so certain Snowing would have an important part to play with Emma after Emma begged them in the finale to help her with the darkness, but I now realize that was just classic A&E bait and switch.

Ditto, but they apparently do the opposite of help her.

 

What bugs me the most is that once Emma is back to being Emma, all of this will be forgotten, water under the bridge. None of the bullshit as per usual will be addressed, because nobody cares about Emma's emotional state, or how she might've been betrayed by the two people who are supposed to actually protect her, because she's their kid.

[KAOS Agent]

Nah, it will be all about how no one trusts Emma and she needs to earn her way back into their good graces and how she's not a "hero" anymore once the Darkness is gone. Emma's emotional trauma doesn't matter. I don't think the tears of Woemma would have any effect because she doesn't have that totally epic reason for going evil: that bratty Snow White.

[mjgchick]

I can totally see everyone being afraid of  Emma (Violet, Belle and Merida so far tbh) and I'd be ok with that but I only have a problem with it because of the double standards they have with Regina. It's so bad that some of her scenes makes me agree with Zelena when ever she goes on a rant about Regina getting everything (Which she does.) or Dark Swan because sorry show but comparing Emma to Cora is just not good. It only makes Emma seem like childs play right now. Even Snowing stealing eggs seem much more evil right now.

 

The writers keep managing to make it hard for me to root against Emma. I'm not sure they see that because I don't want to give them any credit.

[shoregirl]

Even Snowing stealing eggs seem much more evil right now.

The writers keep managing to make it hard for me to root against Emma. I'm not sure they see that because I don't want to give them any credit.

This is the same for me. The harder they try to tell how horrible Emma is ,the more I'm like ehh not really and the more I'm Team Emma (not that I wasn't already) . At this point I want emma and Hook to jump on the Jolly and tell them to figure it out themselves next time or you know throw another party instead of helping your kid

[PixiePaws1]

I have to fanwank that Emma has enchanted Merida's bow so she can't really shoot Belle through the heart or I just can't cope with what they're doing to my Ems:o (((

[Shanna Marie]

The whole "Savior" thing is getting absurd. At first, she was the Savior for that one curse because Rumple wove her DNA into to so she could break it. Then they decided that apparently she was a general-purpose Savior, and okay, that kind of works since she has strong light magic that's apparently pretty rare, but still it seems like that could be more about protecting the town/kingdom, making it possible for everyone to pursue their own happy endings without interference from dark magic, like being cursed or under attack by the cleavage-baring psycho of the week.

 

I rolled my eyes at Emma feeling obligated to give Regina a happy ending because it was her job as Savior, but I could kind of see it with Emma feeling a little guilty about the lost boyfriend thing (if only she knew what really happened to Graham -- it's too much to hope she sees that in one of her dreamcatchers) and then taking on the Darkness was as much about saving the whole town as it was saving Regina (no matter what the Idiots in Charge keep saying). Now, though, we have Henry saying that it's her job to find a lost horse because being reunited with her lost horse is Violet's happy ending.

 

I can kind of give Henry some benefit of the doubt, as it's possible he was killing two birds with one stone and using this as an excuse to connect with Emma and remind her of the good within her, that while she's the Dark One, she's still the Savior, but it seems like the kind of thing that could have backfired because it's so minor and petty. Couldn't he have gone to her and asked for help on the basis that she's good at finding things, and she might want to help him because he's her son rather than because she's the Savior? It makes it sound like "Savior" is all that matters to him, and he expects her to be responsible for every happy ending in town, with "happy ending" defined as "whatever anyone wants at any moment."

 

So what's next, "Emma, my soup is cold. You're the Savior. Do something about it so I can have my happy ending." "Emma, the cable's out. You're the Savior. Bring back my happy ending."

[Curio]

I rolled my eyes at Emma feeling obligated to give Regina a happy ending because it was her job as Savior, but I could kind of see it with Emma feeling a little guilty about the lost boyfriend thing (if only she knew what really happened to Graham -- it's too much to hope she sees that in one of her dreamcatchers)

 

You have no idea how much I wanted there to be a twist with that dreamcatcher thing. Regina thinks it's going to play the loss of Daniel, but then it goes and plays the scene of Regina crushing Graham's heart instead because that scene was technically about both Regina and Emma losing a loved one, which would have supplied even more tears. And then Dark Emma would have been one step closer to going full-dark because she'd be pissed that Regina kept this secret from her for the past two years. (I know, I know...the writers wanted to desperately come up with a parallel between Cora and Emma instead.)

[YaddaYadda]

Now, though, we have Henry saying that it's her job to find a lost horse because being reunited with her lost horse is Violet's happy ending.

 

I don't think anyone should underestimate Emma's attachment to her Savior title. Emma may have fought it, but the title belongs to her, which is exactly why she took issue with Regina calling herself the Savior.

 

Plus, she lit up like a Christmas tree when Henry mentioned the whole happy endings/whatever Savior thingy.  The Savior is a huge part of her identity as long as she lives in Storybrooke.

[Shanna Marie]

I don't think anyone should underestimate Emma's attachment to her Savior title. Emma may have fought it, but the title belongs to her, which is exactly why she took issue with Regina calling herself the Savior.

She could have mixed feelings about it, or she may not normally let herself be bitter about it -- getting weary of the burden that goes with it, never getting to have anything for herself because she has to devote her life to solving other people's problems, which would get especially tiring if they become more petty and something they could do for themselves. And at the same time resent someone else taking the title from her, since that may feel like all she has that makes her special and the main reason people seem to want her, especially if she's still having to do the work (saving Robin) of being the Savior while Regina gets all the glory. There's never been any big celebration of her as Savior, not even a potluck at Granny's. All she gets is the next problem to solve. And now Regina's having a ball thrown in her honor and being celebrated big-time.

 

Plus, she lit up like a Christmas tree when Henry mentioned the whole happy endings/whatever Savior thingy.

How much of that was because Henry was interacting with her like she was her old self? That's a first since the return. Her parents have ignored her entirely and even Hook has told her "I'm not that person anymore" and "I loved you."

 

And, really, she may not mind it. But it's annoying to watch the idea of a Savior with special magical powers whose life was screwed up to get her to that point suddenly become the person who has to solve every little problem to get people their happy endings.

[scarynikki12]

I think that Emma's probably attached to the title because she knows, deep down, that most of these fools wouldn't give her the time of day if she didn't have it.  Henry would never have come for her, her parents would pay even less attention to her than they already do, Regina or Rumpel would have murdered her to advance whatever evil scheme they had going, and the town in general would never give her the time of day if it weren't for the Savior title.  Hook is the only one who sees Emma when he looks at her but they wouldn't have met in the first place if it weren't for her status as Savior.  I think she has a very complicated relationship with her title and one of my hopes is that her Hero's Journey will end with her family finally seeing EMMA as she finds a way to be free of being the Savior once and for all.

[KAOS Agent]

I hate how the Saviour title is used to manipulate Emma. Everybody except Hook does it. Even in this last episode, Henry, who'd previously been totally cool with handing it over to Regina like it's just something that can be easily done by anyone, was using it to manipulate Emma into doing what he wanted. He needed to find that horse and he played on Emma's feelings for him and his belief in the Saviour to get her to help him. The best part of that whole thing was that Emma knew that was exactly what he'd do and anticipated his manipulation from the first. It tells you that Emma is well aware of how she's seen and used.

[YaddaYadda]

It tells you that Emma is well aware of how she's seen and used.

 

See, and that's a super huge problem for me. Emma is well aware of how people see her, especially her family, and yet, there is zero follow up on that. If the writers refuse to address it, maybe they need to quit writing it. 

 

They stripped Emma of her Savior title in 4x22, so that Regina's awesome blood can save everyone, even though it made zero sense. I still don't get it. He wrote in his book "The Savior Regina". 

 

They wanna have their cake and eat it too. 

 

Emma is the Dark One, so she's not the Savior, which was made completely false when they had Emma freeing Merlin. Her magic was both, therefore, she is both. 

 

Seriously, first opportunity Emma gets, she should grab her boyfriend, jump on his ship, go to some island that no one can reach, live by the beach, have a brand new kid, who will just see her as their mom.

 

The writers were very quick pointing out that Emma will use love as a weapon. What they didn't mention is that the people she loves are doing that to her too. 

[mjgchick]

At least Merlin appreciated her. He was lit when he saw her but he might be disappointed in the path she took...unless of course he's in on it as well and maybe that's why he asked her if her heart was in it because he knew how hard this journey would be.

 

Emma's hero journey sucks harder than young Clark Kent's JFC.

Edited October 28, 2015 by mjgchick

[Dianthus]

The writers may be trying to draw parallels between DO Emma and Cora, but Cora casually turned a man into a fish for no good reason (IIRC) and the poor creature would've died if not for Hook's intervention. OTOH, they've said even as the DO, Emma's doing her thing for love of Hook. Cora did her thing b/c she was a power hungry bitch who didn't really care about anyone else.

[KAOS Agent]

I've read so many different interpretations of Emma's actions thus far that I think the writers are doing the audience a huge disservice by dragging out the mysteries surrounding her motivations and what made her go full on dark. Every reaction I saw was technically correct, but all are predicated on different assumptions about Emma's motivations. Thus Emma is completely selfish and doing everything for herself and is very like Cora (even though the parallel was really thin) or she's protecting everyone or she's somewhere in the middle. I find it rather character assassinating because I can't judge her actions accurately. Whenever her true story is eventually revealed, it won't adjust the view a lot of people have taken on the character over the arc. But then, even in "Dreamcatcher" they did a piss poor job of explaining why happy, in love, Head!Rumpel-less Emma suddenly needed to rip out a teenager's heart less than a day after her sojourn in the flower field. None of it makes any sense, which tells me that Emma is acting for the plot and they have no intention of her acting in a realistic progression for a character under a dark influence.

[Camera One]

This was what I was afraid of all along when we learned Emma was going to go dark.  This is not Emma they're exploring.  This is Dark Swan the continuing mystery.  They're much more interested in how Regina is dealing with being the "Savior" or with how Hook is dealing with having a Dark One girlfriend, than Emma herself, mixed in with the "twist" on Camelot mythology and how Merida will make Rumple "brave", in that order.

[Curio]

The best I can hope for with this Dark Swan arc is that A&E hopefully told Jen their entire 5A plan for her character before they even began shooting the season. If that's the case, then I trust Jen's acting decisions completely and will probably be pleased by Emma's true motivations once they're revealed to us during the eleventh hour. However, if A&E did to Jen what they did to poor Christie Laing and have been keeping Emma's biggest character motivations a secret from her script-by-script because they wanted to keep their precious plot twists a mystery, then that makes me really nervous.

 

If the stupid Season 4 finale dagger scene taught us anything, it's that Jen probably thinks more about Emma's character motivations more than the writers do, and it's even possible she disagrees with some of A&E's interpretations of her character. So if Jen has been kept in the dark about Emma's Camelot motivation for turning dark, then I'm afraid all the hard work she has been putting in with her research and subtle acting choices thus far will be thrown out the window once A&E's "epic" twist is finally revealed and it ends up being something different than what Jen has been playing this entire time.

[Camera One]

I think A&E would have told Jennifer Morrison.  They owe the main cast at least that much.  Still, there's only so much she can do when the plot requires that she act ambiguous, one way one episode, one way the next.  I mean, look at Ginnifer Goodwin and Josh Dallas.  In their headcanon, they probably assume Snow and Charming love Emma so much, but how can they possibly get that across with the show as written?  

Edited October 29, 2015 by Camera One

[Curio]

I don't doubt that A&E told Jennifer a vague description of her motivation, but I feel like they most likely left out a huge "gotcha!" twist moment from her that she probably learned about after reading the script for the first time. These are the same writers who never bothered to tell Christie that she was supposed to be playing Zelena secretly the whole time during 4A, never told Colin about how Hook traded his ship for Emma (even though his character knew about it all throughout 3B), and never told Elizabeth Mitchell most of the twists about the Snow Queen.

 

I could totally see A&E telling Jen before the season started, "Okay, now Dark Swan has a very specific goal in mind. She's not doing evil just for the sake of evil; she's also doing this for the sake of her family and for love. She's keeping a secret from them, but she thinks it's for the best. So just play it ambiguous for now." And then when Jen gets the script for the finale, it reads, "Emma turned dark because Snow told everyone about Emma's biggest secret—she's not a natural blonde! Isn't that a great twist?"

Edited October 29, 2015 by Curio

[Camera One]

Now that I think about it, these *are* the writers who contradicted her belief that Emma did it to save everyone, by making it like she did it mainly for Regina.

[KAOS Agent]

Jennifer Morrison was asked in an interview if she wanted to know about her character or be surprised when she got the script and she very clearly stated that she needed to know the basic thrust of the story beforehand because she doesn't want to look like an idiot for making totally incorrect acting choices when the whole story is revealed. It was one of those moments where I wondered how the cast felt about Christie Laing not being told the whole story. As an actor that would really suck and if the showrunners on the show I was on did it to another actor, it would be unsettling to know it could happen to me. Although I don't think the main cast has as much to worry about on that score. I do think Jen knows what happened and what Emma's ultimate motivation is, but since most of her time has been spent skulking around and staring at a sword, she doesn't really have to worry about conveying anything incorrectly.

 

I've said elsewhere that the Dark Swan arc was never about Emma and I've been proven correct. Emma is not herself, so there is nothing to explore about her. Everything that happens is about how others react to her, destroying all of her relationships and taking Emma down a whole bunch of pegs. The Dark Swan herself is irrelevant. 

[mjgchick]

These stupid writers had a chance with this storyline to really explore Emma's insecurities. Her being the savior and saving everyone but some one else gets the glory. Or how everyone only seem to see her as the savior and not just Emma but nope we're just here for the epic (flop) twist.

I do hope for Jens sake it works out for her but the writers really are doing a disservice to the audience and the cast by making this show more plot driven than characters driving the plot.

I still Dont get why these writers seem to hate Emma having scenes with her parents. She's had one one on one with one of them and it was in Camelot. Give me some Dark Swan dragging her parents at least.

Edited October 29, 2015 by mjgchick

[Curio]

These stupid writers had a chance with this storyline to really explore Emma's insecurities. Her being the savior and saving everyone but some one else gets the glory. Or how everyone only seem to see her as the savior and not just Emma but nope we're just here for the epic (flop) twist.

 

The premiere was a great look into Emma's inner turmoil and psyche, but since then, the show has been very vague with what's going on in her head.

 

The second episode was a huge disappointment because there should have been a lot of drama surrounding Regina's decision to pretend to be the savior and how she was the focus of the ball—things that should have been given to Emma. I was excited to see Emma stick up for herself and scold Regina for controlling her with the dagger, but that was immediately dropped and Emma ended up thanking Regina, even though Regina kept making fun of the situation by continuing to casually control Emma's actions. So that was a wasted opportunity. And then we never got a scene where Emma looks upset on the dance floor, Hook asks her what's wrong, and then Emma says something along the lines of, "Wow, they're really making a big deal out of the Savior here. No one in Storybrooke ever bothered giving me a simple thank you."

 

The episode where Emma tricks Hook into giving her his cutlass was a little improvement into looking inside Emma's head, but the audience is still out of the dark with how she's truly feeling because we don't know what her endgame is.

 

And then we have the huge jump between making out with Hook in a meadow of flowers one day to randomly ripping out Violet's heart the next. Isn't that kind of a huge character arc that we missed? What was going on in Emma's head that made her want to jump to that last resort? The audience was under the impression Emma was doing phenomenally better after her day with Hook, and then he's suddenly nowhere to be seen and she's off doing dark magic with dreamcatchers and making dark magic potions with Regina. What the hell happened in between there?

Edited October 29, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

The audience was under the impression Emma was doing phenomenally better after her day with Hook, and then he's suddenly nowhere to be seen and she's off doing dark magic with dreamcatchers and making dark magic potions with Regina. What the hell happened in between there?

 

 

This is where the whole #offscreenville comes in, which makes me just really sad. 

 

They could've definitely thrown in a line about Hook being in the library with Belle doing research with her. I mean they pulled Robin the previous day to take Regina for tea while they waited for Snowing, so I guess we're still lucky as hell.

 

I still don't even know how everyone is staying in Camelot while Arthur is on the warpath, or how very little Regina and Emma were worried about everyone after they found out Arthur whammied Snowing. Instead, they sent Henry on his way to woo Violet. How do they know that Violet's father won't take Henry hostage, that Arthur won't arrest everyone and throw them in the dungeons now that he knows the dagger is in his kingdom when Snowing fail to come back with the weapon.

 

They don't know that at all. 

 

Arthur's knowledge makes him dangerous. 

 

About the scene showing Emma looking into the dreamcatcher and seeing Merlin getting trapped in the tree, I went with it's a new day (Emma has her new cloak on), she just had a great time with Hook, time filled with promises, and hope that they can get back to Storybrooke, have the life they both want, and this is her way of fighting for it, even though she's using means he wouldn't approve of. That's probably why it's done away from him. It just seems that their day together gave her the incentive of crossing one more line to try and free herself from the darkness.

Edited October 29, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[mjgchick]

Jen did play that scene as if she didn't want to do it and she tried to reassure the girl that she'll give it back so at least we know she's remorseful especially since she's the one who let the horse get out so she can make it up to her ungrateful brat.

[Rumsy4]

It just seems that their day together gave her the incentive of crossing one more line to try and free herself from the darkness.

I think this was the reason for her seemingly abrupt shift. Even in the first episode, she was arguing that killing Merida was worth risking her heart darkening a little if it meant finding Merlin faster. Dark Swan is all about cutting corners. A scene of Not!Rumple leading her to the Dreamcatcher to show her the scene of Arthur "sanding" her parents would have gone a long way to explaining that. But the writers wanted to surprise the audience with the "twist" of Emma controlling Violet's heart. The characterizations suffer because of A&E's obsession with "gotcha" twists.

[Curio]

The thing is that they can still do the "gotcha!" twists, but they need to provide a little more explanation along with that twist. Instead of having Robin and Regina looking into the dreamcatcher and cutting straight to the scene of Emma ripping Violet's heart out, the dreamcatcher could have shown all of the offscreen scenes we missed between the flower meadow and Emma deciding to rip Violet's heart out.

 

We could have been shown Emma walking Hook to his room, but turning down the offer to spend the night because she physically can't sleep as the Dark One, so the bliss Hook was able to provide temporarily during the day can never be fully sustaining. Sure, Hook can provide comfort during the day hours, but it's physically impossible for him to stay awake 24/7 like Emma can, so she'll always have a good 6 hours all to herself to think Dark One thoughts. So she goes off to make dreamcatchers instead, and the whiplash of having such a happy date versus being driven insane by making hundreds of dreamcatchers in the middle of the night forces her to snap. Show us a scene of Emma getting pissed off and ripping up a bunch of dreamcatchers and shouting that she wants to be rid of the darkness. Show us her tearfully holding a dreamcatcher that's been ripped to shreds and her "aha!" moment to use it on her parents. Show us a fight between Emma and her parents who were under Arthur's spell, which allows her to justify her decision to use dark magic to peek into their past history. Just having small snippets like that in Emma's dreamcatcher flashback could have gone a long way towards connecting the dots between "The Broken Kingdom" and "Dreamcatcher," and the writers still could have ended the dreamcatcher flashback with the big twist of Emma taking Violet's heart. I don't get why we had to sit through such a long flashback about Regina and Daniel that we've literally already seen frame-for-frame on the show, but not be shown important flashbacks of Emma's descent into darkness.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Curio

[regularlyleaded]

I don't get why we had to sit through such a long flashback about Regina and Daniel that we've literally already seen frame-for-frame on the show, but not be shown important flashbacks of Emma's descent into darkness.

Replying in the writers thread.

[KAOS Agent]

In case anyone was wondering why this arc isn't about Emma, here's a quote from Adam Horowitz from a pre-season interview: "[We'll focus on] our core group of characters and what they’re going through in Camelot with regards to Emma… We’ll see what seems to have happened to her and [explore] that mystery and how they can or can’t help her."

 

This was never about Emma. It's all about everyone else with Emma just being the object that drives their individual stories. 

[Rumsy4]

How sad...

[Mathius]

As I said before, this is the THIRD time people have jumped the gun and thought an arc would be about Emma when it really isn't. First was 3B, which turned out to be about Regina (though Emma did at least get a good two-part finale almost completely unrelated to the preceding arc), and then we had 4A which ended up being about the Frozen sisters and Ingrid more than about Emma, to the point where Anna is the one who saves the day TWICE.

Nobody thought 4B was about Emma beyond the "Savior going dark" angle, and yet it still seemed like she'd resist the darkness and be the big hero in the finale. But instead, Regina is the big hero again, and Emma ends up going dark after all.

Only Season 1 was Emma's arc, though she was also the leader of the team that shared the focus of 3A so that kind of counts too (who the hell knows who or what Season 2 was about).

This was never about Emma. It's all about everyone else with Emma just being the object that drives their individual stories.

And in some cases, she's the object that drives their stories without even being present to interact with them...and by some cases, I mean her own goddamn parents.

These are the same writers who never bothered to tell Christie that she was supposed to be playing Zelena secretly the whole time during 4A, never told Colin about how Hook traded his ship for Emma (even though his character knew about it all throughout 3B), and never told Elizabeth Mitchell most of the twists about the Snow Queen.

But they told Ginnifer and Josh about Snowing casting the Dark Curse and sharing a heart right from the get-go in 3B....even though their characters did NOT remember that so telling them that didn't affect a damn thing about their performances! What is with their priorities!?

But the writers wanted to surprise the audience with the "twist" of Emma controlling Violet's heart. The characterizations suffer because of A&E's obsession with "gotcha" twists.

Taking my response to the Writers thread.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Mathius

[mjgchick]

Is Emma's magic black smoak or dark purple? When she puffed Zelena it was purple but with others it was black? Was that a mistake?

No wonder why Zelena is nicer to Emma. They have onion rings, being pregnant in jail and their love for Captain Swan to bond over. lol

[Curio]

The smoke looked grey to me (which is kind of perfect for Emma's character right now), but I also wasn't paying too much attention to the color because I was focusing more on trying to stay awake through the boring episode.

[mjgchick]

Yeah I just checked on Hulu it looks dark gray.

That episode did suck. I bet Zelena will be going to Emma sooner or later. I wonder if Emma making a deal with Zelena about giving her protection had more to do with knowing how it feels to be pregnant and locked up. Or am I giving these writers to much credit?

Edited November 3, 2015 by mjgchick

[Curio]

I like how literally an episode after Emma was praising Neal to Henry and reminiscing about how Neal wooed her over with "Only You," she makes reference to the fact that she had to live out her 9 months of teenage pregnancy all alone in a jail cell. It's amazing how the writers don't catch these twisted and unintentional moments of irony.

[YaddaYadda]

Emma spent more time pregnant, than time with Neal. 

[Curio]

For some reason, Emma has a tendency to be very fond of people she spent a short amount of time with, but who ended up royally screwing her over some way or another (i.e. Neal, Lily, August). 

[KingOfHearts]

 

For some reason, Emma has a tendency to be very fond of people she spent a short amount of time with, but who ended up royally screwing her over some way or another (i.e. Neal, Lily, August).

Well that explains her fascination with being Regina's bestie. Instead of just a one-time fluke, she consistently screwed her over in one way or another. 

 

I was expecting 5A to be the Emma Appreciation Hour, with Team Storybrooke realizing how much they need Emma in their lives. I wanted to see each person's unique reaction to the disaster and their own solutions. Basically, the Nevengers without their leader and pondering, "What would Emma do?" But the citizens are treating it more like a Big Bad of the week, and less like a loved one is in peril. Hook is the one exception. I even expected to see more from Regina of all people than what we've gotten. This just proves that the town can go about its business without its Savior.

 

Like what we've all been saying since 3B: Emma should move to New York with Hook and only visit on holidays or once a month. Henry can stay with Regina since she's his favorite parent now. Regina can text Emma "Code Red" and have her come over to use deus ex machina magic when they're out of options to stop the villain du jour.

Edited November 4, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Mathius]

But the citizens are treating it more like a Big Bad of the week

To be fair, I wouldn't blame the citizens in general since the Dwarves are the only ones we've been allowed to see react to Emma (and it's in a negative way). It's Snow, Charming and Regina that are being mind-bogglingly blasè about the whole thing, while Henry is inconsistent (both A&E-written episodes, "The Dark Swan" and "Dreamcatcher", have him come off as uncaring and even manipulative, while others like "The Price" and the recent "The Bear and the Bow" have him concerned and trying to reach her.) Hook is the only consistency, there was doubt for a while with some due to the "I loved you", but the events afterward are showing clearly that he's still fighting to get the Emma he loves back. It is incredibly disappointing writing.

Also, Zelena has shown more desire to know Emma's insight on things than most. ZELENA.

This just proves that the town can go about its business without its Savior.

Oh, but remember? It has a Savior: Regina! -_- Edited November 4, 2015 by Mathius

[KAOS Agent]

Emma hasn't been a threat to any of the general citizens. They even threw a street fair and no one seemed to have any concern that Emma would come along and burn it to the ground. Granny seems to not mind taking Emma's many take out orders for onion rings. She's a pretty solitary and less destructive villain than they've seen in a long time. 

[mjgchick]

Emma doesn't really seem to want to hurt anyone. She's just being a douche to some folks because she's desperate to take the sword out. Now that it's out I wonder what she'll need next? I doubt just having the sword and the dagger is the ingredients.

[KingOfHearts]

 

. It's Snow, Charming and Regina that are being mind-bogglingly blasè about the whole thing, while Henry is inconsistent (both A&E-written episodes, "The Dark Swan" and "Dreamcatcher", have him come off as uncaring and even manipulative, while others like "The Price" and the recent "The Bear and the Bow" have him concerned and trying to reach her.)

"Citizens" was a poor choice of words. I basically meant Snow, Regina, Charming, Henry and Hook. All of those besides Hook seem to act like it's just the current challenge. 

 

 

Oh, but remember? It has a Savior: Regina! -_-

Yet she's done absolutely no saving whatsoever.

Edited November 5, 2015 by KingOfHearts