S05.E01: The Wars To Come

[Guest]

I always took his odd accent to mean he's not from King's landing. He's a minor lord from the middle of nowhere and should have a bit of an accent. Ned did as well, I'm kind of disappointed the Stark kids don't - we can't even blame that on Cat, because she and her uncle Blackfish are also kind of brogue-ish sometimes. But it's not reasonable for everyone in Westeros to have the same accent. Before the leveling effect of television, regional accents were far more pronounced in the US -and they continue to be in the UK, which is exactly why the GOT actors don't share a common accent. 

 

His accent will change within a scene, though. And sometimes from line to line quite often with the same characters in the room. To me that suggests he's just not very good with dialects. Gillen has a very nice speaking voice. I kind of wish he'd just stop farting around and just use that.

 

I honestly find Aiden Gillen to be awful in the role. He's beyond broad. I recognize the characterization is different from the books, but the way the character is played I keep expecting to see him tying some poor girl to the railroad tracks whlie he laughs maniacally.

[LadyArcadia]

His accent will change within a scene, though. And sometimes from line to line quite often with the same characters in the room. To me that suggests he's just not very good with dialects. Gillen has a very nice speaking voice. I kind of wish he'd just stop farting around and just use that.

 

I honestly find Aiden Gillen to be awful in the role. He's beyond broad. I recognize the characterization is different from the books, but the way the character is played I keep expecting to see him tying some poor girl to the railroad tracks whlie he laughs maniacally.

 

Awww man.  I'm on the Littlefinger love train, but now you just ruined it for me.  Now I'll only be able to see Snidely Whiplash instead of the smarmy hotness I used to see.

[Guest]

Awww man.  I'm on the Littlefinger love train, but now you just ruined it for me.  Now I'll only be able to see Snidely Whiplash instead of the smarmy hotness I used to see.

I'm so sorry :(

[Danny Franks]

His accent will change within a scene, though. And sometimes from line to line quite often with the same characters in the room. To me that suggests he's just not very good with dialects. Gillen has a very nice speaking voice. I kind of wish he'd just stop farting around and just use that.

 

I honestly find Aiden Gillen to be awful in the role. He's beyond broad. I recognize the characterization is different from the books, but the way the character is played I keep expecting to see him tying some poor girl to the railroad tracks whlie he laughs maniacally.

 

Agreed 100%. I don't know what on earth he's going for, in any of his scenes, but the result is usually laughably bad. He just makes me think of some amateur actor playing Iago in an unimaginative, tedious performance of Othello. I genuinely expect him to turn to the camera and spout some on-the-nose soliloquy about how he's going to destroy his enemies with his devious wits and spiteful nature (which he actually did, I think, while one woman was fingering another woman's arse).

 

Just to spare myself that, I skip all his scenes, now that he doesn't have any with Conleth Hill or Peter Dinklage. I like Sophie Turner, but she's not good enough to make me watch Gillen moustache-twirl his way through scenes. And of course he'll last forever in this series. Like Ramsay Snow, he's too absurd to kill.

[Happy Harpy]

Maybe I'm way off base, but I'm assuming that Mel has every intention of sacrificing Shireen if another option doesn't present itself. (I don't think she knows about Maester Aemon's parentage.) Selyse certainly wouldn't have any objections, and Stannis has painted himself into a corner on the whole issue of spilling royal blood to fulfil his destiny. If Davos was willing to cross Stannis to save Gendry, just imagine what he'd do to save Shireen.

I want to believe that Stannis would never. ever. sacrifice his daughter. I try to like him, I can't and don't because there are too many reasons for me not to (love S.Dillane, though) but for all his awkwardness in expressing it, I'm convinced that he loves Shireen. Nobody (or almost) is a saint on GoT, but agreeing to let Shireen die at the hands of Melisandre would be the Moral Event Horizon for Stannis, imo.

That said, I completely agree that Davos would go berserk even on Stannis if she was threatened. If I didn't love Shireen so much, I'd almost wish she was since Davos' blind mancrush  has begun to irk me and I want him to wake the fuck up. I can't believe I'm sick with loyalty (generally, it's a make it or break it point with me in liking or not a character) but this particular one seems so misled to me, right now.

OTOH, Stannis offing Melisandre because she threatened lovely Shireen would make him win major, major, major points in my book. But well, I'd shamelessly cheer for Ramsay Bolton if he was the one to kill her.

[Ripley68]

I had mixed reactions to the "is it Mance, is it not Mance" burning.  From his speech, I'd say it was Mance, from the way he acted once the flames started, I'd say it was Rattleshirt (or replacement).  Stannis was much easier to dislike in the books.  In the show, the only reason I don't like him is because he killed his brother with black magic. The fact that he saved the Knight's makes me like him.  I still don't agree with his claim to the throne.  Robert took the throne by force, so a brother being next in line doesn't work for me because their parents weren't the rulers.  Yes, Cersei's kids aren't technically the correct heirs either, but as far as 99.9 percent of Westero's is concerned, they are, untill a Targaryian shows up.

  I hope the show gives all the religions some explanation.  I waiver back and forth over Melisandre and the "One, true god" stuff.  I'll think she's full of it, but then something real of magical happens and I'll think she totally has it.  Then, is this god good or bad?  Yes, it likes sacrifices by fire, but then it brought what's his name back a gajillion times from the dead.  I know the point is probably there is no clear cut good or bad in the gods, I just don't like the ambiguity.

[BookEater]

I want to believe that Stannis would never. ever. sacrifice his daughter. I try to like him, I can't and don't because there are too many reasons for me not to (love S.Dillane, though) but for all his awkwardness in expressing it, I'm convinced that he loves Shireen. Nobody (or almost) is a saint on GoT, but agreeing to let Shireen die at the hands of Melisandre would be the Moral Event Horizon for Stannis, imo.

That said, I completely agree that Davos would go berserk even on Stannis if she was threatened. If I didn't love Shireen so much, I'd almost wish she was since Davos' blind mancrush  has begun to irk me and I want him to wake the fuck up. I can't believe I'm sick with loyalty (generally, it's a make it or break it point with me in liking or not a character) but this particular one seems so misled to me, right now.

OTOH, Stannis offing Melisandre because she threatened lovely Shireen would make him win major, major, major points in my book. But well, I'd shamelessly cheer for Ramsay Bolton if he was the one to kill her.

 

In theory Shireen should be safe, since she's Stannis' heir and in the books he was adamant that if he were killed his men should stop at nothing to put Shireen on the IT. I'm less confident about her safety on the show though since they've been cutting and condensing storylines as they get closer to the end of the series.

[Happy Harpy]

In theory Shireen should be safe, since she's Stannis' heir and in the books he was adamant that if he were killed his men should stop at nothing to put Shireen on the IT. I'm less confident about her safety on the show though since they've been cutting and condensing storylines as they get closer to the end of the series.

I'm pretty much between a rock and a hard place about this since IIRC, on the show, there are currently two Baratheons by blood left after Stannis: Shireen and Gendry -the only surviving bastard* IIRC, again. If one dies, the other might be safe in theory, as you said...but it also means that any of them is a very potential goner as long as the other is alive. Of course, lucky me, they both count among my favorite characters and I'd hate to lose one or the other. They're both decent individuals in this festival of sorry excuses for human beings called GoT.

Unless, of course again, House Baratheon simply disappears. The "Wheel promo" sounded very ominous to me, in that respect.

*I know, baseborn bastard and all, but if the vassals/Davos or anyone else has any interest in finding an heir in case there's no one left (again, Nooo!) Robert's son by blood will be good enough imo. And I don't count Cersei's official Baratheon children because golden shrouds.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[Fen]

I think the show has been really unclear on Stannis taking all the R'hllor stuff on board, and that a lot of it was pragmatism: 'I'm unpopular, but all the adherents of this religion would be loyal to me', and 'Melisandre has power and men fear her - this is handy'.  As a result, I think for most show watchers Stannis will come across as a true believer, and so obeying a demand to sacrifice Shireen might seem less implausible.

 

For the record, I don't think he would.  But seeing as Game of Thrones deals in horrible emotional pain, I'm not ruling it out.

[Stardancer Supreme]

See I took "gold will be their crown" to mean they would have the Lannister golden hair - as is, she wasn't just saying the queen would have three children while the king had loads of bastards, but that Cersei's children would be Jamie's not Robert's.  So to me "gold" being their shroud could mean they die young, but not necessarily before Cersei. 

 

Or that they will die exposed as Lannisters, not Baratheons. Gold is the Lannister color.

[Snakelite]

Could the writers be moving toward having a romance of sorts between Pod and Brienne? They are both fan favorites with very little left to do in the plot. Anything between Brienne and Jaime is hopeless, but I think the audience would like to see something to bring her some happiness. Something about how they are portraying the relationship seems to make it a possibility they could go the way of the romance novel and bring them together. Or maybe I just have too much of an imagination.

[Bill1978]

I still don't agree with his claim to the throne.  Robert took the throne by force, so a brother being next in line doesn't work for me because their parents weren't the rulers. 

 

It worked for Richard III, and apart from the Lancaster side of England, most people were 'happy' to accept Richard as King due to him being the brother of Edward IV, Even if their parents were never rulers.

[Guest]

Could the writers be moving toward having a romance of sorts between Pod and Brienne? They are both fan favorites with very little left to do in the plot. Anything between Brienne and Jaime is hopeless, but I think the audience would like to see something to bring her some happiness. Something about how they are portraying the relationship seems to make it a possibility they could go the way of the romance novel and bring them together. Or maybe I just have too much of an imagination.

I think (I hope) they're going to move toward Brienne training Pod. I also suspect they're going to move her north where at least in the show 'verse there will be the threat of doom from the White Walkers and also Stannis. Not sure if the showrunners remember that bit where she told Catelyn that when the time came, she did not want to be held back. 

[nksarmi]

I am hoping that in show, Brie is going to get the chance to avenge Renly with Stannis.  I also want to see her woven into Sansa remaining arc.  And I'd rather see Brie meet some Wildling that turns her eye than have her end up with pod - I think Brie would enjoy being with a Wildling that expects a woman to fight rather than looks down on her or finds her amusing for not being in a dress and being a proper lady.

[Danny Franks]

It worked for Richard III, and apart from the Lancaster side of England, most people were 'happy' to accept Richard as King due to him being the brother of Edward IV, Even if their parents were never rulers.

 

English dynastic quarrels go a long way back, though. Richard and Edward's father had made claims to the throne, by virtue of being descended from an older son of Edward III than Henry VI was. In Westeros, the pre-Targaryen world was not united, so no Baratheon was ever king of Westeros. The Baratheons take their claim from their Targaryen blood. I think that makes it more tenuous.

 

As for Shireen, I wonder if that is where Stannis might finally make a moral stand against Melisandre, which then finally makes her believe Stannis is not her Azor Ahai. It would be a nice way to finish Stannis's story on a note of the moral strength he was famed fore.

[Hecate7]

His accent will change within a scene, though. And sometimes from line to line quite often with the same characters in the room. To me that suggests he's just not very good with dialects. Gillen has a very nice speaking voice. I kind of wish he'd just stop farting around and just use that.

 

I honestly find Aiden Gillen to be awful in the role. He's beyond broad. I recognize the characterization is different from the books, but the way the character is played I keep expecting to see him tying some poor girl to the railroad tracks whlie he laughs maniacally.

 

He's very good with accents. His natural accent is Irish. He's very consistent in other roles, and so I think the inconsistency of Littlefinger's accent is intentional, and meant to reveal his background coming through, when he lets the Irish intensify. When he's around courtiers he's more courtly, and around the prostitutes he's less formal. And the angrier he is, the more Irish we hear. I think it's actually very artful.

What was the deal with putting all three female leads in black, and darkening Melisande's hair so much that it almost looked like Sansa's? In the elevator her hair looked dark brown, almost black. It didn't look red at all until the Mance scene.

 

Meanwhile, Shireen, sitting in the dark that made everyone else's hair look practically black, is blonder than all the Lannisters put together, but no one has ever noticed or questioned it?

[Danny Franks]

He's very good with accents. His natural accent is Irish. He's very consistent in other roles, and so I think the inconsistency of Littlefinger's accent is intentional, and meant to reveal his background coming through, when he lets the Irish intensify. When he's around courtiers he's more courtly, and around the prostitutes he's less formal. And the angrier he is, the more Irish we hear. I think it's actually very artful.

 

Except, as pointed out, it changes within the same scene, as he's talking to the same characters. Sometimes within a single line. I don't find anything remotely artful about it. And honestly, the accent is the least of my problems with his performances on the show.

[Shanna]

I could see shireens mother attempting to sacrifice her when stannis is away, but I could never see stannis condoning it.

[benteen]

Well, I was happy to find that the "If Game of Thrones too place on Facebook" recaps are back.

 

http://valarbloghulis.someecards.com/got-recap-season-5/if-game-of-thrones-took-place-entirely-on-facebook-the-season-5-premiere/?page=1

[John Potts]

So that was kinda… dull. Except for the bits between Stannis, Jon and Mance, it seemed everyone was pretty much treading water.

Essos: I'd forgotten how bad Danny is at ruling. It's one thing to conquer - and even to mean well - but that doesn't mean everyone will be happy with your reign. And she seems to feel every bit as entitled as any other Westerosi ruler. Maybe talk to the people in the Fighting Pits about whether they want them to be closed? And it's one thing to end slavery, but what does that mean for the former slaves? I am so glad the show didn't follow the Books and have Tyrion take forever to get to Danny - and from what I've heard:

Spoiler

doesn't - or at least, didn't - intend to have him meet her until the END of Winds.

Yohn Royce "He [Robin Arryn] swings a sword like a girl with palsy." Politically incorrect, but he's not wrong!

On ‎13‎/‎04‎/‎2015 at 3:00 AM, SeanC said:

Rude and abrasive Brienne still jars me, I have to say.

I know! I thought they'd come to an understanding. I guess "losing" Arya made her grumpy.

On ‎13‎/‎04‎/‎2015 at 3:17 AM, Tryangle said:

Motorboating? Bwa ha ha ha!

I was trying to think of some appropriately Westerosi equivalent!

[nikma]

This is your frst time watching this episode?