S07.E20: Sleeper

[turnitwayup]

We can judge after we see how Marlowe delves into the Hollander's Woods story in the finale, but I think it may have been better if the wedding went ahead normally in 6x23 and there was just a season long arc this season about Castle remembering something traumatic from the woods as a kid and having that tie into a new serial killer or something they were investigating.  They could have explored why Castle became a mystery writer and tied it into the COTWs as well, and they wouldn't have had to write a crazy disappearance story.

 

Yep, I think getting Castle getting kicked out of the precinct cause of his relationship with that mob guy would've worked better as last season's finale. Keep the wedding to go on as planned with the 1st dress still getting destroyed. The two of them can go on their honeymoon over the hiatus and Castle could get his PI license so that the PI arc could be the beginning eps of the season. Tyson/Neiman could've been done for November sweeps. Move the western ep for February airing, but have them teased about getting a 2nd honeymoon so soon. Winter finale ep could've been the COTW that has him remembering Hollander's Woods story. Then the 2nd half of the season we could've learned about why he became a mystery writer and other childhood/hs/college stories that make him what he is today. Wished they had scrapped this whole stupid disappearance storyline and gave a season long subplot for Martha instead.

 

I notice Alexis is back to calling her Kate. I wish they would give some consistency with that. Once Martha started calling her Katherine, it stay like that and we got some weird endearing nicknames. What little we see of Jim, he never strayed away from calling her Katie.

[Gant]

So I gather I can skip this one :). Is it really more preposterous than the sleeper agent one with Jennifer Beals? Or just stings more because it's supposed to explain the "arc" of Castle's disappearance and makes a mess of it instead?

[S55]

Is it really more preposterous than the sleeper agent one with Jennifer Beals? Or just stings more because it's supposed to explain the "arc" of Castle's disappearance and makes a mess of it instead?

 

The latter IMO. I remained extremely skeptical about this whole Castle focus since it was first talked about last summer, but I never imagined it could be explained/written this badly. So so SO bad. 

 

I thought my anger about all of it might have subsided after a night's sleep, but if anything, it feels like it's reached Hulk-like levels today. UGH. 

[371012]

Another thing....I just don't get why CASTLE would have needed any of that wiped from his brain. If such a thing were possible, perhaps if it were attributed to national security, but it wasn't so horrible that he would have pulled out a code story from his past to warn him off in the future.

[pepper]

Especially because I think they went to Canada first. This seems to be the only sequence that makes sense.

1. They grab Castle in the Hamptons, convince him to make that money drop back in Manhatten.  I don't get how this was necessary, except to give Beckett a reason to have doubts.  I also don't get why they had to leave his car on fire to scare the crap out of Beckett.  Why not just have him not show up?

Has anybody thought that the time taken to do all that was way longer than it would have taken to let them get married then talk BOTH of them into delaying their honeymoon so Castle could save tens of thousands of lives? If they persuaded Castle to do it, knowing what he was putting Beckett and his family through, why did they think they would not be able to persuade him to do it when he would not have had that on his conscience?

 

The CIA is slick enough to set Beckett up to doubt Castle with changed DMV records, a reasonable link to his mafia friend, etc., but they don't know that Castle and Beckett have willingly taken similar risks in the past?

 

And I call BS on the remaining mystery. I think it's because they couldn't plausibly explain why Castle wanted to forget his heroic deeds and the very real justification of why he had to leave with no notice on his wedding day. He wanted to forget so that he would never explain to Beckett and leave that hole in both their lives? That makes zero sense if you believe that he foiled some massive terrorist plot. Just giving the bare bones of that as he did for Alexis and Martha, coupled with a bullet hole in his gut, should have been plenty for Beckett. But he chose silence and doubt instead. Sure.

 

Only good part of the whole thing were the Castle/Beckett interactions. Not saying much for a Beckett-free new season if that happens.

[pepper]

 

As cool as the "mind wipe" 'technology' available to the CIA is; I'm more impressed by the "memory implant" abilities they have!

Sorry to double post but I have a question about that. Didn't Castle call the school only to have them confirm that he won the award alone? Then it turns out he won the award with the former Al Qaeda guy? Did I get that wrong or is it implied that the school's files were hacked, as well? Or is it just a writers' screw-up?

[readster]

Wow! Talk about thrown together because they didn't know if they would get another season or not. Even with all this thrown together the timeline and everything is just so off kilter. Ok, I get it, they knew the attack was coming soon that's why they grabbed Castle to get the info they needed. I can even understand erasing the memories but everything else is so stupid.

 

1. First of all they CIA after all of this leave evidence with the key on Castle, the fact they did the entire hiding in the same city everyone else is. Really? If they were that worried the assassin was still going to be able to track him down eventually.

 

2. So, you can tell Castle everything pretty much about what happened. But don't even mentioned the bullet or why it took 2 months and then erase the memory. No 30 secs to say: "We then tracked the people who were planning the attack due to your connections and... you didn't like how we took care of them." But no, just: "We can't tell you those details and I'm sorry about your wedding."

 

3. So Mr. Black Ops can keep his napkin off at the exotic bar he goes to but he can't think of pulling out cash instead of using his credit/debit cards when he checks in on his package. Sure, great idea there and even worst, only Castle can notice someone going to the same place on a regular basis that on almost all the same days. 

 

4. Sure Espo, Castle is being stupid again because never mind: Former military that wanted to create a terrorist attack so the US would go to war with Libya. Former sleeper Russian agents trying to cause WW3 because they can. 3XK following the Police and FBI and faking his death 3 times along with the doctor no one would arrest who had all these plans, having someone look like you to sneak out and destroy all evidence. How about your former partner who was framed by a dirty IA officer that no one ever thought about. How about your former police captain was in a murder cover up with a corrupt Senator who was killing people and using former military. Or how about the entire Dreamworld and Bio weapons that a reporter was trying to get back at a senator? Remember those? No. Never mind.

 

5. Yes, of course Dr. Worf would think they weren't memories at first. Then he decides to retrace to when the dreams first started. Sure, never thought about that first. Duh!

 

6. Why didn't the CIA change the defectors face if they could erase memories and him being in the US as a student? Including the paper copies?

 

7. Why did they even bother setting up the Mythology when they had no idea what to do?

[merylinkid]

 

Has anybody thought that the time taken to do all that was way longer than it would have taken to let them get married then talk BOTH of them into delaying their honeymoon so Castle could save tens of thousands of lives? If they persuaded Castle to do it, knowing what he was putting Beckett and his family through, why did they think they would not be able to persuade him to do it when he would not have had that on his conscience?

Exactly.    Ask Castle and Beckett at the reception.   They agree but Beckett goes on the honeymoon alone as cover.   No one even knows Castle is missing.  They run the caper, and he goes to meet Beckett at the honeymoon location.    They then both travel back to the loft together with no one the wiser.   Much better plan than FAMOUS WRITER IN CAR CRASH PRESUMED DEAD BUT TURNS UP 2 MONTHS LATER WITH HIS MEMORY GONE.

[KaveDweller]

Sorry to double post but I have a question about that. Didn't Castle call the school only to have them confirm that he won the award alone? Then it turns out he won the award with the former Al Qaeda guy? Did I get that wrong or is it implied that the school's files were hacked, as well? Or is it just a writers' screw-up?

They definitely implied the school's files were hacked.

I also think they implied Castle didn't really choose to have is memory wiped either. They just told him that to get him to stop investigating. I don't know how they knew about Hollander's Woods though.

[S55]

7. Why did they even bother setting up the Mythology when they had no idea what to do?

 

Because they can? Hey, it's as good of a lame reason as anything right now. 

 

At this point, I'd take a dream explanation a la Dallas just so I didn't have to include this disaster as part of the show's canon. Nice legacy you're leaving behind, Amann. 

[verdana]

We can judge after we see how Marlowe delves into the Hollander's Woods story in the finale, but I think it may have been better if the wedding went ahead normally in 6x23 and there was just a season long arc this season about Castle remembering something traumatic from the woods as a kid and having that tie into a new serial killer or something they were investigating.  They could have explored why Castle became a mystery writer and tied it into the COTWs as well, and they wouldn't have had to write a crazy disappearance story.

 

This would have been so much better, not letting the wedding go ahead was a huge mistake (not that I believe MilMar would ever acknowledge this) that led to repercussions that lasted throughout the season not only for the writers but for the fans too. We could have learnt something genuinely interesting about Castle instead of this silly story. You called it when you say they showed a lack of commitment and that's what annoys me the most about this - they ruined their wedding over a story they didn't even care about developing. 

 

Comparing this story to the Johanna Beckett story arc is embarrassing - that got 6 years and had a number of stand out episodes and advanced both characters and propelled their story forward. This Castle "mythology" had three outings and two of those gave the audience nothing to advance the story, all three were highly disappointing and 7.20 is up there for me with the likes of FBFW, Watershed and Squab as one of the worst episodes ever. 

 

I think they did the Martha concerned scene too soon in the episode for it to feel right.  Castle was just getting started going into his rabbit hole.

 

I didn't buy into Obsessed!Castle, even seeing Martha and Alexis fretting didn't do anything to stir me. I almost got whiplash with the turnaround from him ignoring the whole issue quite happily for months on end to suddenly worrying the family sick and staying up all hours in front of his murder board. The lack of any build up since 7.02 really hurt the story development, this episode felt like something Amann had flung together in about 5 minutes flat in sheer desperation before he handed his cards in and the actors had to make the best of it. 

Edited April 21, 2015 by verdana

[oberon55]

The real takeaway from the finale & mythology dreck is just how terrified they were of the marriage. All of this just to delay the wedding for 6 episodes. If they only spent half the energy on writing compelling episodes that they do on bullshit ways to slow Beckett & Castle's forward momentum this could have been a great (possibly last) season.

[readster]

Exactly.    Ask Castle and Beckett at the reception.   They agree but Beckett goes on the honeymoon alone as cover.   No one even knows Castle is missing.  They run the caper, and he goes to meet Beckett at the honeymoon location.    They then both travel back to the loft together with no one the wiser.   Much better plan than FAMOUS WRITER IN CAR CRASH PRESUMED DEAD BUT TURNS UP 2 MONTHS LATER WITH HIS MEMORY GONE.

That's what really made it horrible. The entire car crash with Castle was beyond unnecessary and made the CIA look like the biggest morons of course look at Linch Pin and Beckett's FBI short live days. Everyone who is in any type of police force are completely idiots. How about how the FBI were outwitted by 3XK and his unlimited resources. Or how about Bracken being "untouchable" until the magical white elephant tape was found. I would have loved to seen the the conversation between Castle and the CIA agent.

 

 

1. Mr. Castle.... blah blah blah 10s of thousands of lives at stake.

2. Castle: Wow, ok, I'll do this. 

3 CIA: Burn the car!

4. Castle What? I don't think I want to remember any of this when its all over.

5. CIA: He said it! Get the set up ready in case he lives through this.

 

 2 weeks later...

 

1. Castle: That was horrible and I can't believe I missed my wedding for this and everyone thinks I'm dead or kidnapped.

2. CIA: Don't worry, you won't remember any of this. *Clunk*

3. Other CIA Agent: How are we getting him back to the city?

4: CIA Agent: Shoot him, put his stuff to look like he was out camping and set him on a boat we will report stolen.

5. Other CIA Agent: How does that make sense?  Also, why are we dropping out sleeper in the same city as him? Also, why hasn't his father come looking for him considering he use to be one of us?

6. CIA Agent: Don't ask relevant questions. Just do it!

[madmaverick]

Why did they even bother setting up the Mythology when they had no idea what to do?

 

Unfortunately, I think that's common practice for many TV writers.  Throw something attention grabby out there.  Make sense of it all later, if ever.

 

They clearly wanted to end the season with a bang, and a wedding wasn't big enough of a bang in their opinion.

 

Also, Esposito is still a douchebag to Castle.  That's not changed from 7x01 and now.  Does the guy even trust Castle at all?  Like the guy?  Or he just tolerates him as Beckett's husband?  I was almost expecting him to tell Ryan that it served Castle right if the bad guys were coming after him next.  

 

The questions of 'why 2 months?' and 'why did Castle want to forget?' stand out amidst the range of unanswered questions.  I'm sure it could all be explained away in similar conspiracy fashion one way or another if they ever go there again.  CIA did bad stuff and didn't want Castle to blab?  2 months because Castle really liked Thailand?  It is a great holiday destination.  

 

I would be more disturbed than them to know that my memories could be so easily erased and substituted.  If they were going to go all Total Recall and soapy, then they might as well have gone soapy all the way and had bad guys erase Castle or Becket's memories of the other and they could have had their season(s) long arc of angst and doing the love story all over again. 

 

The kiss was extremely dark at the end.  But, oh hey, we saw the red bedsheets!

 

The promo for the next episode looks better than this entire episode as an action thriller.  It would be funny if the standalone bottle episode on the plane is more thrilling than this mythology they've so painstakingly woven since last season (not).  

[pepper]

I also think they implied Castle didn't really choose to have is memory wiped either. They just told him that to get him to stop investigating. I don't know how they knew about Hollander's Woods though.

I thought they implied the opposite. That Castle wanted to have his memory wiped and the only way future-Castle would believe anything that preposterous is if a code was used that only he could possibly know. He therefore told them about Hollander's Woods as the perfect authentication of that preposterous idea. Castle believed what they said, because there really was no way for them to know about Hollander's Woods if he had not told them. That part always made perfect sense to me. Castle chose to have his memory wiped.

 

I tried fanwanking that it was because the bad guys would come after him for what he knew so he did it to keep his family safe. But who the heck would believe that selective parts of someone's memory had been irreversibly wiped? So why would they take the chance of letting him live? And he's not anonymous - heck he was selected because he's so damn recognizable and therefore he's easy to find. Ugh. My head hurts and I'm just not prepared to work so hard for a show that I'm just not that into any more.

[madmaverick]

The real takeaway from the finale & mythology dreck is just how terrified they were of the marriage. All of this just to delay the wedding for 6 episodes. If they only spent half the energy on writing compelling episodes that they do on bullshit ways to slow Beckett & Castle's forward momentum this could have been a great (possibly last) season.

Delay, hold , delay has always been Marlowe's M.O. in my opinion no matter what he says in interviews.  Maybe it's the pressure of executing 20+ episodes a season, maybe he believes payoff is greatest after you've hoarded a story for the longest.  Maybe he thought the wedding was the last card they held, the last big story they had to tell, and so the later the better.  The entire S4 was a season of delay that never made much sense to me.  They had Castle tell Beckett ILU, but no, they couldn't be allowed to deal with that as rational people would for another whole season.  In comparison, look how well Caskett are communicating these days.  All it took was one kitchen counter conversation for Beckett to make Castle spill about his dream.  Characters are allowed to communicate when it serves the writers' plot purposes, characterisation be damned.

 

I think they would have delayed the wedding for more than 6 episodes if they could.  But they didn't expect the amount of backlash from viewers and reviewers alike. What do you expect when you have an entire season of dull, lacklustre wedding planning complete with horrifically ugly wedding dress, and last minute divorce, only to culminate in no wedding and everything to go up in flames.

 

It's interesting to observe how there's barely any movement with some story arcs on Castle for episodes on end, be they about Castle's disappearance, the S4 season of secrets, Esplanie etc. whereas on shows like The Good Wife they have the opposite kind of problem and episodes are often stuffed too full of story. There's so much, sometimes too much happening all at once, to a great number of characters.  Both shows are 1 hour dramas so the difference in approach is stark.

[readster]

 

I tried fanwanking that it was because the bad guys would come after him for what he knew so he did it to keep his family safe. But who the heck would believe that selective parts of someone's memory had been irreversibly wiped? So why would they take the chance of letting him live? And he's not anonymous - heck he was selected because he's so damn recognizable and therefore he's easy to find. Ugh. My head hurts and I'm just not prepared to work so hard for a show that I'm just not that into any more.

 

 Same with how Espo always throws Castle under the bus and not like someone who Castle has even saved his life and cleared his old partner's name and so forth for the last 6 years. As said above: "Espo doubts Castle when he has no good reason too... check!" 

 

The code word works because he said himself, no one knows about what happened that day in the woods. Not Martha, not Kate, not his ex-wives not even Alexis. However, I think it does go more that the CIA agent did something extreme and that was too much for Castle. Him doing it so the bad guys wouldn't look him up when the defector and his bodyguard were within miles of each other in the SAME CITY! I mean that is just completely stupid or the fact they didn't have the guy's face altered so he didn't still look like himself. Because I love the fact that he had all the original pictures and everything at his apartment safe house. Also, the CIA would have known the former army guy was dead they would have moved him out almost immediately and then just set it up to kill the assassin who didn't know better. Oh this was just so bad of an episode. I can't wait until next week to see how a person stuck a gun on a plane in this day and age.

[S55]

The real takeaway from the finale & mythology dreck is just how terrified they were of the marriage. All of this just to delay the wedding for 6 episodes. If they only spent half the energy on writing compelling episodes that they do on bullshit ways to slow Beckett & Castle's forward momentum this could have been a great (possibly last) season.

 

NAILED IT. 

[KaveDweller]

I thought they implied the opposite. That Castle wanted to have his memory wiped and the only way future-Castle would believe anything that preposterous is if a code was used that only he could possibly know. He therefore told them about Hollander's Woods as the perfect authentication of that preposterous idea. Castle believed what they said, because there really was no way for them to know about Hollander's Woods if he had not told them. That part always made perfect sense to me. Castle chose to have his memory wiped.

Originally, I believed Castle wanted his memory wiped. But after last night it makes no sense. I didn't hear anything that explained why he would have made that choice, but I did hear the CIA talk about how THEY didn't want him to remember. I can't see Castle wanting to forget he "saved the world" especially when he knew the people in his life would want answers.

Maybe during their memory erase/replace they extracted the Hollander's Woods thing? Or I am just thinking about this more than the writers ever did.

[readster]

NAILED IT. 

Bingo!

  Classic: "We can't marry our main cast members off... we will hit the MOONLIGHTING CURSE!" Hey Hollywood... GET OVER IT!

[oberon55]

Originally, I believed Castle wanted his memory wiped. But after last night it makes no sense. I didn't hear anything that explained why he would have made that choice, but I did hear the CIA talk about how THEY didn't want him to remember. I can't see Castle wanting to forget he "saved the world" especially when he knew the people in his life would want answers.

Maybe during their memory erase/replace they extracted the Hollander's Woods thing? Or I am just thinking about this more than the writers ever did.

 

You are definitely over thinking it. If they can extract memories (which to me is implied) then the whole thing becomes nonsense. Just go to Thailand, grab the guy & extract his memories of the terrorist plan. This episode reminds me of the old Drew Carey show where the audience would shout out words & the performers would try to make up a story including all the words.

[verdana]

Castle: Sleeper – A Good Cop/Bad Cop Review

 

I can sum up my portion of the episode review in a single word…DUMB. Yes, that’s exactly what I thought of the story and writing. The writers of this show have taken more than their fair share of practice jumps in preparation of releasing the actual shark into the waters, and with last night’s crappy storyline, well, it’s obvious that they are now ready for the main event.

I've heard "jump the shark" mentioned in quite a few places after this particular episode. 

[DivaLite]

The holes in this episode and the “storyline” are too many to count and OTT is an understatement. What a mess.

Does anyone think that there are times the writers come up with this stuff to laugh at the fans? Y’know, like “the fans are going to go ape-sh__ over this crap we’re giving them, that will be so fun to watch.”

 

Jumping the shark started in 6x23, this was just the final splash as they hit the water.

 

I wonder if….
Nathan had something to do with the Castle-centric focus of this season, and it was botched so badly that as a condition of him re-signing he got Amman and Marlowe axed?

 

Can’t blame Stana Katic for perhaps thinking of leaving. She seems to be sleepwalking her way through Beckett and that’s all the role requires these days.

 

And next week a Castle/Alexis epi (which generally creep me out) and murder on an airplane, Castle is the only one who can solve it???  Please. At least when Bones did it, it made sense for the characters.

 

Just makes me sad what has happened to a fun show.

[betsyboo]

I had to pause to post - did anyone else notice that the signature on the police seal on the apartment door was clearly and legibly "Roy Montgomery"???!!!

I am going to commit an egregious violation of forum protocol and quote myself. Seriously, did anyone else notice Montgomery's name?? Did i make it up???

 

As for the rest: I am just going to spend the rest of the season enjoying Stana's hair and Nathan's comic delivery.

[KaveDweller]

Jumping the shark is the beginning of the end. Castle can't really jump the shark when you know it is just going to be back to normal the next week.

[KaveDweller]

I am going to commit an egregious violation of forum protocol and quote myself. Seriously, did anyone else notice Montgomery's name?? Did i make it up???

 

As for the rest: I am just going to spend the rest of the season enjoying Stana's hair and Nathan's comic delivery.

I just checked. Not only does it say Roy Montgomery, it is dated May 4, 2009.

Someone in the props department is phoning it in. Which shouldn't be a surprise after how they handled Beckett's ring.

[verdana]

I'm just going to pretend it didn't happen.

 

You won't be the only one.

 

Jumping the shark started in 6x23, this was just the final splash as they hit the water.

 

Yeah I have to agree that it started in 6.23, it's just taken a while to to get there.  Although the show this term came from I note lasted many more seasons after the infamous jumping the shark.  Had to chuckle coming across this review of Monday's episode at Gossip and Gab and the lady goes into detail about the whole thing (What is “Jumping the Shark”?) and I must admit I'd never seen the actual picture of that moment and they've got Castle's face superimposed on the Fonz. Next week all this means nothing of course, the slate is wiped clean at least for the characters if not some of the fans. It's all about snakes on a plane with the dynamic father/daughter detective duo and it's a case of vanishing what vanishing? 

 

And next week a Castle/Alexis epi (which generally creep me out) and murder on an airplane, Castle is the only one who can solve it???  Please. At least when Bones did it, it made sense for the characters.

He's a private eye now remember....more suspension of disbelief I'm sure will be required as I see plane toilets that on TV you can fit about three people in and miraculously no screaming kids. 

[Brit Babe]

That was terrible. And possibly the last we'll see of Amann's work on this show.

You can tell they made up the reason for his absence after the fact.

 

What a clusterfuck of an episode! All the people including myself who knew Marlowe & Amann's "this was planned" BS was just that BS, pat yourselves on the back. I've read better fan fiction than this episode, not that it would be difficult.

 

Rick has been thinking about this all season - I beg to differ, no one including himself really cared about it.

 

Nathan seemed to phone in most of the episode, or maybe that was the bad writing I don't know.

 

 

The real takeaway from the finale & mythology dreck is just how terrified they were of the marriage. All of this just to delay the wedding for 6 episodes. If they only spent half the energy on writing compelling episodes that they do on bullshit ways to slow Beckett & Castle's forward momentum this could have been a great (possibly last) season.

100% agree. I'd also add that trying to keep them apart, when that is bloody reason for the show in the first place. I had no real issue with PI storyline as Caskett seemed to be together more in those episodes than the usual COTW episodes of late.

 

[pepper]

I may actually re-watch to see whether the acting was as bad as the writing. I was completely unable to suspend disbelief because the plot sucked so hard and I didn't believe anything the characters were saying, even though I was meant to. So was it that the dialogue was as bad as the plot? The acting was a passive-aggressive protest? Both were just sh!te? Now I'm curious. It was that bad. 

 

On the bright side, it was good to note that the show no longer has the power to make me angry. I can't understand how those twitter and tumbr fans still manage to go apesh!t over something so mediocre.

[Cyranetta]

I can't recall any episode of any series that so resembled a plate-spinning act where the spinner just kept running down the stage spinning new plates and ignoring the crashes behind him (and those crashes weren't just from this episode).

 

The one thing I did appreciate was a rather nice family tone with how the women interacted, solidifying how Beckett is truly integrated into the Castle household and not just a nervous observer.

[FlickerToAFlame]

It could be nothing, but I find it odd how nobody on the cast/crew (except Chad Creasey) has ever said a good word about Amann. They all trip over themselves for MilMar...something doesn't feel right and is probably related to his leaving.

[KaveDweller]

It could be nothing, but I find it odd how nobody on the cast/crew (except Chad Creasey) has ever said a good word about Amann. They all trip over themselves for MilMar...something doesn't feel right and is probably related to his leaving.

 

Maybe he's not leaving by choice and they feel bad about it?  Or he's just less likable. 

[McManda]

I think the downfall of this episode was not the execution, it was solely the writing. The end. They didn't know what to do so they threw something at the wall and hoped it would stick and it didn't. I don't think that anyone else was phoning it (any more than usual) and I don't think this was anything close to jumping the shark in the traditional sense because it literally doesn't change anything. Other than the halfassed storyline, the thing that annoys the most is that it just felt like they just got bored and wanted it over. Which is fine, I guess, considering that's what most people thought of the episode anyway: eh, it's over, move on to next week.

 

At present this episode sits on par with Suicide Squeeze and Slice of Death in terms of something I'd want to watch again. It's there, but I have no real interest in it. It's not offensive and makes me angry like For Better or for Worse did.

[Brit Babe]

It could be nothing, but I find it odd how nobody on the cast/crew (except Chad Creasey) has ever said a good word about Amann. They all trip over themselves for MilMar...something doesn't feel right and is probably related to his leaving.

 

While Milmar and others don't endear themselves to me, Amann really doesn't either. After this episode I looked back at some of the episodes he has written and well, most are not the episodes I love with exception of 3XK & Target, none of them light my life up and just bore me.

[shapeshifter]

Sorry to double post but I have a question about that. Didn't Castle call the school only to have them confirm that he won the award alone? Then it turns out he won the award with the former Al Qaeda guy? Did I get that wrong or is it implied that the school's files were hacked, as well? Or is it just a writers' screw-up?

They definitely implied the school's files were hacked...

I prefer to believe that they also wiped the minds of the high school staff. Heh. Which is why I can still enjoy this show. It's my hour of silly.

[Mittengirl]

I thought last night's episode made little sense because I was only half-way paying attention. I am glad to know that was not the case, because that saves me from watching it again to see what I missed.

[femmefan1946]

Does anyone involved with this show actually know anything about anything outside of the lower 48 states?

The Thai alphabet looks nothing like Arabic. I told DH that it was Thai with only a few seconds glimpse of the plate.

And why is a Thai restaurant hiring a Latina(?) hostess and Arabic(?) waiter? There are no Thais in New York?

Or is the Thai restaurant an al-Queda front? Now that would be a story.

Especially since Thailand is a Buddhist country with a constitutional monarch ruled by a military junta. If you wanted an Asian Muslim country try Indonesia or Malaysia. Even the Phillippines has a strong Muslim minority with some jihadist leanings.

 

I think they chose Thailand just to get in the ladyboy joke.

 

So let's start Season 8 with Beckett coming out of the shower in her old apartment, the day they are going to pick up the license, and it was all a dream. Then they can have a nice wedding as planned with all their friends attending.

They can leave in the destruction of the horrible dress, every wedding needs some little disaster.

[McManda]

Does anyone involved with this show actually know anything about anything outside of the lower 48 states?

The Thai alphabet looks nothing like Arabic. I told DH that it was Thai with only a few seconds glimpse of the plate.

And why is a Thai restaurant hiring a Latina(?) hostess and Arabic(?) waiter? There are no Thais in New York?

Or is the Thai restaurant an al-Queda front? Now that would be a story.

Especially since Thailand is a Buddhist country with a constitutional monarch ruled by a military junta. If you wanted an Asian Muslim country try Indonesia or Malaysia. Even the Phillippines has a strong Muslim minority with some jihadist leanings.

 

I'll out myself as a stupid American then, because I can't say I knew any of that. Not because I'm not opposed to learning about it, but because it was never anything I thought to learn about. I'm more of an arts/business/science person, or at least my education was. Although I don't know why a Thai restaurant in New York has to exclusively hire Thai people, so I don't much see an error there.

 

I'm guessing a lot of Americans wouldn't know about any of that ... or really care, probably.

[Nadine]

Just watched the episode. Damn this was not good. Well the loft interactions were okay and the Beckett/Martha scene but Thailand, Al-Queda and all that jazz. Nope.

For me, it's a shame that people will focus on this crapfest by Amann, when he gave us some really good episodes over his run on Castle. It's as if the AWM and co went alright I'm writing the finale you can write this one then.

[DivaLite]

 

So let's start Season 8 with Beckett coming out of the shower in her old apartment, the day they are going to pick up the license, and it was all a dream.

 

That would be awesome.

[KaveDweller]

Does anyone involved with this show actually know anything about anything outside of the lower 48 states?

The Thai alphabet looks nothing like Arabic. I told DH that it was Thai with only a few seconds glimpse of the plate.

And why is a Thai restaurant hiring a Latina(?) hostess and Arabic(?) waiter? There are no Thais in New York?

Or is the Thai restaurant an al-Queda front? Now that would be a story.

Especially since Thailand is a Buddhist country with a constitutional monarch ruled by a military junta. If you wanted an Asian Muslim country try Indonesia or Malaysia. Even the Phillippines has a strong Muslim minority with some jihadist leanings.

 

I don't think they even know about all the states.  I still remember the time Beckett referred to driving "up" to Atlantic City.  AC is south of the city.  That's down. I think she referred to Brooklyn as "up" too.  Just look on a map people. But in fairness to the writers, they did know the difference.  Castle was the one who mistook it for Arabic.  For whatever reason, it was intentionally written for him to be wrong at first.  Probably so we'd be surprised at the Thailand reveal.

 

I didn't think the terrorist guy was from Thailand though.  Didn't he say he was an exchange student from Pakistan? The meet was just in Thailand.  Which makes no sense if it was about stopping an attach on U.S. soil, but as has been said nothing from this episode made sense.  It would have been better if they showed Castle having dreams over several episodes where he is remembering random things. Then they happen to catch the case of the Chuck Norris guy, and Castle realizes his dreams must be true.

 

For me, it's a shame that people will focus on this crapfest by Amann, when he gave us some really good episodes over his run on Castle. It's as if the AWM and co went alright I'm writing the finale you can write this one then.

I don't blame Amann.  No one could make the plot work well.  I blame whoever came up with the Castle disappearing idea in the first place.

[tankgirl73]

I'm usually the one who will find the little good moments in the bad episodes and give benefit of the doubt, and say 'well it wasn't all that bad'. 

 

This was all that bad.  Ugh.

 

But, I have a theory.

 

The plot is just TOO bad.  Too many holes.  Too over the top.  Too ridiculous.  The explanations don't work -- as has been pointed out, the timeline with the money drop and Montreal don't make sense with what his Al Qaeda friend told him.  So *obviously* nonsensical that it can't be real.  Can't be the truth. 

 

I think the clue is when Dr Worf said that the dreams might be his brain's way of filling in the missing time -- making up a story to fill in the gap.  The story as presented is totally something that Richard Castle, thriller author, would come up with.  And if it's his unconscious mind doing it, then it doesn't have to completely fit the known facts, either -- dreams are weird.  But if his dreams weren't actually reality, then how did they pan out into real life the way they did? 

 

Well, I'm proposing (or fanwanking, take your pick) that he was still dreaming.  That none of this episode is real.  Maybe none of this whole season, but that's another question.  Maybe he's still in the hospital recuperating from his time on the boat, maybe he never disappeared at all and this is just a crazy dream the night before his wedding.  I don't care about that detail.  I just think this episode can't be real.  It's a story Rick is dreaming, which brings in elements of his real life history mixed with fantasy just like real life.

 

Evidence:

 

-- Many characters in his dreams turned out to be real, therefore (supposedly) actual memories.  But in the end, we learn that the douchebag was never involved -- so he actually has not seen that douchebag since school days, right?  So what an interesting coincidence that when he meets him, he says "Long time Rick" in real life precisely the same way he said it in the dream.  But wait, that was a planted memory, right?  Not if both the 'memory' and the 'real life' are just made up/dreamed!

 

-- The Roy Montgomery 2009 seal.  They even gave us a nice closeup of it.  Makes perfect sense if it's an image Rick's mind is recalling to fill the place of 'crime scene seal'. 

 

-- Maybe many Americans wouldn't recognize Thai, but Rick Castle?  World traveller, man of great knowledge of fact and trivia, international bestseller -- he'd recognize Thai writing.  Or at the very least, he'd recognize that it's NOT ARABIC.  Real Castle would, anyway.  Dream Castle threw that in just to make another twist.  And decided later on to go with that Arabic angle anyway with the Pakistani guy. 

 

-- Dr Worf.  At the beginning of the episode, when Kate said she knew someone who could help, I knew we'd be seeing Dr Worf and I was actually excited -- this was before I understood the dreck that was to become the rest of the episode.  This is also just another 'familiar' entity being thrown in by Castle's mind.  Did Castle ever actually meet Dr Worf?  Doesn't matter -- he knows the concept of Dr Worf and filled in the rest.  They just used the same actor so we the audience would understand what was being represented.

 

-- The whole situation with Castle supposedly becoming obsessed was an obvious reversal of Kate's previous obsession with her mother's murder.  Right down to him being taken off the case because he's too close to it, him insisting it was under control, Beckett saying that she was keeping an eye on him and would stop him if he went too far.  It's just TOO neat -- again, too OBVIOUS a reversal.  His brain is just flipping the known event to fit the new story. 

 

-- The title, "Sleeper". 

 

There's more, I'm sure.  Lots of the little just-too-convenient points.  The way they all just finally explained it to him with no more cloak and dagger.  But these are the big ones.  It's all just clues to the fact that none of this was real... my show doesn't suck.... sigh....

[pepper]

Man tankgirl, I hope those were all deliberate misdirections rather than examples of a disastrous attempt at a plausible plot line/character development.. Because, if they're not, yours is the worst review I've read of this episode to date. And that's saying something

[verdana]

It's my hour of silly.

 

Everyone certainly got their hour's worth on Monday night. 

 

So let's start Season 8 with Beckett coming out of the shower in her old apartment, the day they are going to pick up the license, and it was all a dream.

 

 

The idea writers employ this scenario to try and make everything better and wipe away the crap would usually have me eye rolling but after the hash up they've made if new showrunner floated this idea I'd be cheering him on. The cheesy "sunset" wedding with Jim knocking back the booze, the needless PI arc, Castle kissing Gates (sill have nightmares about that one), Castle and that "funny" web commercial that makes me cringe just thinking about it, the "mythology" of course - can be all be consigned to dream land. 

 

The kiss was extremely dark at the end.

 

And if it's not dark they get Nathan to suddenly twist her around at the last second so the view gets blocked over a shoulder blade and some hair. I know it's not the end of the world and it's not as if I'm expecting miracles to happen and they grow the fuck up but I do scratch my head wondering why they started doing this in the first place because it's obviously deliberately done. Is it part of Marlowe's fixation with wanting to hold back as much as possible when it comes to anything relating to Castle and Beckett? Fans can get a kiss but he's not going to let the fans see it but may be occasionally you will as a special treat? Or do they think their audience are going to start demanding full on nudity next after watching them lip lock too often? Or are MilMar really that uncomfortable with displays of physical intimacy? Jesus. Sometimes I do wonder about the maturity level of these writers. 

Edited April 22, 2015 by verdana

[verdana]

Other than the halfassed storyline, the thing that annoys the most is that it just felt like they just got bored and wanted it over.

 

If they were bored then best to have left well alone and forgotten about it rather than try and write a conclusion when they had no faith or heart in the story, that was asking for trouble and sure enough they created this mess that is indelibly marked on the show (or as indelibly as it can be given their lack of continuity). There was hardly a huge ground swell of fans on line demanding the story be told week in week out, most of the general audience I'm sure had probably completely forgotten about the entire thing so I doubt it would have had any serious repercussions if they had decided to leave it and move on to something else.  

Edited April 22, 2015 by verdana

[Sarnia]

I was completely unable to suspend disbelief because the plot sucked so hard and I didn't believe anything the characters were saying, even though I was meant to.

This. I spent half the episode wondering (hoping?) that it either was another Castle's dream or a new novel he was writing. And the other half firmly convinced that all the people Castle was talking to were badly reciting badly written dialogue for a very bad action movie, and that they were lying about what really happen, because I can't believe this stupid story is supposed to be the closure that watchers (and characters) need. But if I believe that, then I have to believe there will be more episodes about this story, and... Shudders.

And Beckett's reaction? "Oh, it's fine if you missed our wedding and disappeared for 2 months because you were saving the world so no harm done". Who is this woman?

[Lucynda]

And Beckett's reaction? "Oh, it's fine if you missed our wedding and disappeared for 2 months because you were saving the world so no harm done". Who is this woman?

This! What bothered me a lot is that they seem to be joking about Castle having gone missing for 2 months? Even if I've come to peace with that, accepted it, I'd never joke or speak lightly of it. Beckett's last few lines were probably the dumbest I've ever heard.

[tankgirl73]

This. I spent half the episode wondering (hoping?) that it either was another Castle's dream or a new novel he was writing. And the other half firmly convinced that all the people Castle was talking to were badly reciting badly written dialogue for a very bad action movie,

There we go.  I like that better than my 'dream' theory -- this whole season was just an enactment of the latest Niki Heat novel (or novels) -- starting with the guy getting run off the road on the way to his wedding.  The 'badly written dialogue' is one more of the clues. 

[LisaM]

Terrible episode. The only parts that I liked took place in the loft. Especially liked Alexis waking up Beckett with concern over her dad.

 

Why is Esposito still such an asshat to Castle?

 

No interest in seeing this show continue without Beckett on screen each week.

[kbs]

There we go.  I like that better than my 'dream' theory -- this whole season was just an enactment of the latest Niki Heat novel (or novels) -- starting with the guy getting run off the road on the way to his wedding.  The 'badly written dialogue' is one more of the clues. 

 

Or maybe on his Field trip Castle stumbled over some mysterious fungus ...

 

As to the shower scenario: I'd say Castle should step out of the shower and it was all a dream.

Unfortunately, he then learns that his fiance had a terrible car accident and now has a completely different face at the beginning of season 8.

All problems solved.