S04.E17: Put A Ring On It.

[ThomasAAnderson]

 

There is a hugely unhealthy power dynamic between Fitz and Olivia that's best summarized by Marie's metaphor of Olivia being "the Help."

I'm so sick of this racist meme. "the Help" doesn't have agency. Olivia Pope is a powerful, beautiful woman who fell in love with the wrong man. If the writers would bring on a fellow who is handsome, charismatic and appreciates her the way Fitz does she'd probably bounce. Despite what some here think Jake's rhythmless ass ain't the guy to replace Fitz.  IMO men who can't dance don't typically do well in the bedroom.

 

I stopped watching Grey's the moment I found out McDreamy was married. Did they stop seeing each other when Addison arrived? 

Edited March 27, 2015 by ThomasAAnderson

[Chicago Redshirt]

I'm so sick of this racist meme. "the Help" doesn't have agency. Olivia Pope is a powerful, beautiful woman who fell in love with the wrong man. If the writers would bring on a fellow who is handsome, charismatic and appreciates her the way Fitz does she'd probably bounce. Despite what some here think Jake's rhythmless ass ain't the guy to replace Fitz.  IMO men who can't dance don't typically do well in the bedroom.

 

I stopped watching Grey's the moment I found out McDreamy was married. Did they stop seeing each other when Addison arrived? 

We could probably go on for quite a bit about how much or little agency Olivia is portrayed as having in her relationship with Fitz, how much Fitz appreciates her or not. I will never accept that Fitz actually cares about her as a person. The way he spoke to Eli/Rowan about her is a way that I don't think someone who actually loved somebody could talk about that person, even if it was just meant to get under Eli/Rowan's skin.

 

YMMV, but both Edison and Jake are handsome, charismatic men who appreciate(d) Olivia as much as I believe Fitz did or more.

 

To the best of my recollection, Meredith completely stopped seeing Derek romantically until it was clear that the attempt to reconcile between Derek and Addison was doomed. 

 

It also probably helps that Meredith and Derek unequivocally love one another, make compromises and sacrifices for one another, etc.

[SimoneS]

Am I really the only person who remembers Jake getting into a physical altercation with Olivia and putting her in the hospital with a concussion? How on earth could this man be an acceptable romantic partner for her? I did like Edison. Too bad Olivia did not like him as much as I did.

 

Based on what has been shown on the screen, Olivia has agency, and all agency in her relationship with Fitz so not sure where the debate comes in. If people don't like them together that is fine, but Olivia could walk away at any time. It is her love for him that brings her back to him no matter what. Also, Olivia and Fitz' tortured romance is the foundation upon which the show rests without it the show collapses completely.

Edited March 27, 2015 by SimoneS

[reggiejax]

Am I really the only person who remembers Jake getting into a physical altercation with Olivia and putting her in the hospital with a concussion?

 

 

I recall Jake shoving her against a wall with his hand around her throat, choking her, after OPA hacked B613's financials. I do not recall him putting her in the hospital with a concussion. Not trying to mitigate for Joke in any way, but I honestly do not recall that happening. If it did, can someone bring me up to speed, because I seriously missed that.

 

I too found myself disappointed that Portia de Rossi (Is her character's name Lizzie? That's another thing that escapes me.) folded against Smellie. I would have loved it if Portia retorted "shut up bitch, you work for me" after the FLOTUS's little snit fit. Obviously that is just wishful thinking on my part, but a little backbone would have been nice on Portia's part. If this is how weak her campaign manager is going to act, then Smellie can kiss the Virginia Senate race goodbye.

[Cirien]

Am I really the only person who remembers Jake getting into a physical altercation with Olivia and putting her in the hospital with a concussion? How on earth could this man be an acceptable romantic partner for her? I did like Edison. Too bad Olivia did not like him as much as I did.

 

Based on what has been shown on the screen, Olivia has agency, and all agency in her relationship with Fitz so not sure where the debate comes in. If people don't like them together that is fine, but Olivia could walk away at any time. It is her love for him that brings her back to him no matter what. Also, Olivia and Fitz' tortured romance is the foundation upon which the show rests without it the show collapses completely.

And Fitz Sexually assaulted her....?

[Nanrad]

Jake was trying to calm Olivia down when she found out that he was spying on her, and then he backed off/let go and she fell. He didn't intentionally hurt her.

[Sidney]

My heart ACHED for Michael! And the Olivia and Fitz scenes! What a beautiful episode! And we seen James and Ella!

[LekoBoy]

So Cyrus was first married to Francie Jarvis?  Paris Geller and Lane Kim have been killed on the show.  When do Luke and Lorelai appear?  Emily should play Mellie's mother.

[27bored]

For that generation, I think the show nailed the belligerent homophobic father and the mother trying to smooth things over while not expressing her opinion about her son's sexuality. It reminded me of the James McGreevey's parents at his press conference. The father's horrible body language and rolling of the eyes, while his mother was stoic.

 

I don't think it's a generational thing; it's a matter of temperament. Being a homophobe doesn't make you a nasty, spiteful person who puts down your kid whom you haven't seen in years in front of cameras...anymore than being tolerant doesn't make you a loving, caring person (i.e. Cyrus). Having an attitude that's wrong is one thing, but the dad in this case was something of a caricature.

 

40% of homeless kids are LGBT. Why is that?

 

Homophobia is a continuum. I agree that not all homophobes are fire-breathing Pat Robertson types actively trying to hurt their kids. But nor is the portrayal on Scandal of Michael's parents an inaccurate one. It's not representative of all homophobes, but it is certainly representative of a group of them.

 

I don't know what the homeless kids stat is for, but I will say I think the portrayal of Michael's parents is moreso representative of what many people think homophobic parents are like rather than what many of them are actually like. I don't say that to argue the exact antithesis of what they were on the show, but just that people with bad ideas aren't necessarily bad people. People...are complicated. Most parents wouldn't say something like that to their kids, gay or straight. And the ones who would probably wouldn't show up regardless if you paid them off or not.

 

The bigger problem I have with that portrayal is because I think they try to make cartoon characters out of people who have issues with homosexuality as a redemptive measure of Cyrus and now Michael. Cyrus is not a good man, and if Jeff Perry weren't such a good actor I don't think I'd buy even his more poignant moments. It's...OK to not like Cyrus. Michael, at least from what we know, is no angel, either. Having parents with a shitty mindset doesn't help, but neither of these characters qualify for a Noble Peace Prize. So making the various and sundry homophobes they have into over-the-top, preachy, self-righteous caricatures is a way to make the flawed gay characters seem not so bad. Someone like James was proof that gay people are just people; loyal, family-oriented, loving, and someone like that could change the minds of people with prejudiced views of gays. On the other hand, Cyrus somewhat validates the idea that gays are people who have lost their way and need help. He was having an affair while he was with his wife, and that ended badly. He was with James and used him and lied to him over and over and almost had him killed, and we know how that ended. Of course that way of thinking is wrong, but the worst thing you can do with a negative stereotype is to fulfill it.

 

Cyrus can be sympathetic at times, and I guess Michael can be as well, but trying to garner sympathy for characters by making others these exaggerated versions of themselves is cheap, IMHO.

[jaytee1812]

If makeup exists that could make Cyrus look young, I need to buy it in bulk.

As Leo says in The West Wing: "It's a hair and makeup room, not a time machine."

[dr pepper]

Hmm, Mellie has learned how to Oliviate. She does a really good job at it with Lizzie.

Sallie shows the real life right wing commentors how to do it.

Olivia puts on a 2 Ring of Self Abasement of her own free will.

Cyrus goes soft (and in Dick Week too!) and can't kill the naughty puppy.

Abbie and Leo do their frenemies with benefits act

Fitz is barely there, except in the flashback where gives Liv the Ring and once again, gets her to go against her better judgement.

Huck and Quinn are effective without even hinting at menace for a change

Other than the bit with the Ring, this was a pretty good episode.

[ThomasAAnderson]

 

I don't know what the homeless kids stat is for

How do you suppose the kids become homeless? 

 

 

Being a homophobe doesn't make you a nasty, spiteful person who puts down your kid whom you haven't seen in years in front of cameras

No it just makes you write law that you can shoot gays on the street if you encounter them or not serve them in your business.

 

 

Jake was trying to calm Olivia down when she found out that he was spying on her, and then he backed off/let go and she fell. He didn't intentionally hurt her.

I'm not sure I'd want to be in a relationship with a man who started out spying on me or the guy that ordered him to do it. Not sure how they aren't equally creepy and should both not be considered romantic possibilities. Jake just seems so bland but MMV.

 

It would be an interesting twist if a love interest were introduced whom Olivia actually fell for as hard as she has Fitz.

[vanarnd1]

I think the show is edging very dangerously on becoming just boring. Cyrus is such an awful person that i couldn't get into his story.. In the early seasons it made him interesting but now it is just tiresome to have an episode where we are supposed to see him as sympathetic. I don't really trust the writers to handle Liv's PTSD in an meaningful way, and I have no interest in seeing Olitz restarted again so this was mostly a dull episode for me. And next week's episode preview doesn't look much better

 

I got tried of Papa Pope as much as anybody, but at least in the first half of the season there was some sort of direction with him as the villian. Now it just seems like the show is spinning its wheels and I am not sure if they have a good plan to finish the season. And this episode set another season low with a 2.3 rating in the 18-49 demo so they could finally start having fan momentum go in the wrong direction if they don't pick things up by the season finale.

[Haleth]

I was shocked, shocked that Michael didnt end up dead, whether by his own hand after the dinner with the parents or by Huck. The wedding was a nice way to end the episode. Loved the too quick glimpse of Ella.

It was interesting juxtaposing this against the uproar here in Indiana over the religious freedom bill.

[Cirien]

How do you suppose the kids become homeless? 

 

No it just makes you write law that you can shoot gays on the street if you encounter them or not serve them in your business.

 

I'm not sure I'd want to be in a relationship with a man who started out spying on me or the guy that ordered him to do it. Not sure how they aren't equally creepy and should both not be considered romantic possibilities. Jake just seems so bland but MMV.

 

It would be an interesting twist if a love interest were introduced whom Olivia actually fell for as hard as she has Fitz.

She has. Jake (which says something about her and her issues.) She wanted "to stand in the sun" and she wanted "Vermont". Liv was right. She needs to fix herself before she gets with anyone.

[Eolivet]

She has. Jake (which says something about her and her issues.) She wanted "to stand in the sun" and she wanted "Vermont". Liv was right. She needs to fix herself before she gets with anyone.

 

I disagree with this (or my mileage definitely varies). In my opinion, just because Olivia thought she could be happy with Jake doesn't mean her feelings were equal or that she'd fallen for him as hard. Olivia hasn't been with Fitz (in any sense) in...over a year, and she was still frantically searching for that ring? The fact that she even had to question what she wanted while she was in a happy relationship with Jake means her feelings for both are most definitely are not equal (or else she would easily choose Jake). The fact that it's "The handsome, single guy who makes me happy and sexually fulfilled vs. the married guy who's torn my emotional well-being into pieces, and...gosh, I just can't decide" says it all.

 

To me, Jake has merit as a character because of his B613 connection, but as a love interest, he's just the latest in a line of single, handsome "not Fitz" guys who fall in love with Olivia, and have attempted to free her from her lingering, messy, complicated feelings for Fitz.

[Tetraneutron]

I think people are overthinking Jake v Fiz (or Edison v Fitz, or anyone v. Fitz). Olivia has to end up with Fitz, narratively, or what's it all been for? What's been the point of having an affair with a married man, putting what the show wants us to believe is an excellent President (which, let's not even get into how wrong that is) in constant danger of being exploited by his enemies and rendered ineffective and unable to enact his policy positions, and of committing treason and breaking God knows what laws in getting Fitz elected in the first place? Of indirectly setting in motion the events that killed Fitz's son? Of dragging Mellie through hell, personally and careerwise? Of not going scorched-earth on B613? If it's not for some grand, passionate love that withstands the test of time and makes both partners blissfully, eternally, happy, then what's the point? How can Olivia go through all that and then decide she's over Fitz, and has a nice, functional, normal, adult love life with a nice, functional, normal, adult? She can't.

 

The actual personality of any of her love interests is irrelevant. They've all been intelligent (more tell than show in Fitz's case), powerful, and madly, deelpy in love with Olivia. This is inevitable. She's the star, they're the love interest. The thing the star gets as a prize. This is why being the love interest to the main character is the most thankless job in all of television, because you're a vehicle for redemption and not an actual character. Olivia is Good because someone smart and kind and competent and powerful and sexy will sacrifice everything for her, no matter how flawed she is. This is why women complain about how women being stuck as the love interest is sexist, because the very nature of the role means you can't be a developed person. Flip the genders and the writing doesn't actually improve.

[33kaitykaity]

This is why being the love interest to the main character is the most thankless job in all of television, because you're a vehicle for redemption and not an actual character. 

Now all of Liv's love interests will be wearing red Star Trek security shirts in my mind.  Those were the guys in the Original Series that always died horrible, painful deaths.  Perfect, TYVM.  ;)

[Cirien]

 

I disagree with this (or my mileage definitely varies). In my opinion, just because Olivia thought she could be happy with Jake doesn't mean her feelings were equal or that she'd fallen for him as hard. Olivia hasn't been with Fitz (in any sense) in...over a year, and she was still frantically searching for that ring? The fact that she even had to question what she wanted while she was in a happy relationship with Jake means her feelings for both are most definitely are not equal (or else she would easily choose Jake). The fact that it's "The handsome, single guy who makes me happy and sexually fulfilled vs. the married guy who's torn my emotional well-being into pieces, and...gosh, I just can't decide" says it all.

 

To me, Jake has merit as a character because of his B613 connection, but as a love interest, he's just the latest in a line of single, handsome "not Fitz" guys who fall in love with Olivia, and have attempted to free her from her lingering, messy, complicated feelings for Fitz.

MMV but I don't think Liv thinks she deserves to happy. Which is why she was questioning whether Jake was right for her but again MMV

[St. Claire]

It was just a tiny moment in the episode, but seeing Michael literally struggling to swallow his salad while his father berated him about this sexuality had to be the most painful things I've seen on television in a long time. I felt so awful for him, and I could feel my own throat closing up a bit as I fought back my emotion. very good acting choice by Matthew del Negro. (Note: it's impossible to cry if you swallow something; your throat tightens up when you cry, so drinking something when you feel tears coming on will force your throat to open up and make the tears stop. That's why I keep a bottle of water handy all the time.)

[aliceinwonderbra]

 

I don't know what the homeless kids stat is for, but I will say I think the portrayal of Michael's parents is moreso representative of what many people think homophobic parents are like rather than what many of them are actually like. I don't say that to argue the exact antithesis of what they were on the show, but just that people with bad ideas aren't necessarily bad people. People...are complicated. Most parents wouldn't say something like that to their kids, gay or straight. And the ones who would probably wouldn't show up regardless if you paid them off or not.

 

There are that many homeless LGBTQ kids because they literally have parents who throw them out on the street. Yes, there are parents who are as you've described, not accepting but not spending 100% of their time spewing vitriol at their children. There are also parents who are just like these people and unfortunately, their attitude here was not a stretch of the imagination whatsoever. I think we also have to remember that they seem to be aware of Michael's profession. They're already anti-gay, now add fuel to that fire by making him a gay sex worker.

[thewhiteowl]

Homeless teens of any label are a serious issue BUT not an issue on this show at this time.

Remember to stay on topic. Thanks.

[arty]

I'm delighted that we got to meet the one and only Mrs. Cyrus Beene even if it was in flashback and fleeting. I thought the circumstances surrounding their pairing was believable and am glad that their break-up was clean and honest. It is one of the only aspects of Cyrus' story that makes me feel sad for him rather than angry at him. Well done, show.

I also like Michael a lot and am glad that Ella will have a relatively decent human being in her life. He's better than Cyrus deserves, though.

Fitz continues to confound me. He finds it acceptable to make Mellie his wife and the mother of his children. But to give her a family heirloom -- that's where he draws the line. No, that's the thing that he must reserve for his True Love. Sigh.