S02.E14: Love In The Time Of Hydra

[Kel Varnsen]

I think "real Shield" is a joke. "Hey, we hated Fury`s secret-keeping, clandestine operations and spying on everyone, that is why we have decided to create this new organization that has... secret-keeping, clandestine operations and spying on everyone." Hunter was apparently the only sane person there. Bobbi might play a long con but Mack has definitely drunk the kool-aid.

 

Meanwhile, the other Shield isn`t doing any better. For one, they don`t know about "real Shield". Secondly, Coulson DOES have major deficits as a leader. He doesn`t want to engage in a discussion, he handwaves

 

  

So which version of SHIELD is worse at being a secret organization? The one with the giant ass aircraft carrier, that has to dock sooner or later, or the one that drives around in SUVs with the SHIELD logo on them? No wonder HYDRA was able to take over

Skye trying to find out just how much power she really has might be a bad idea. If she lets it all go she may not be able to rein it in again and I don't think she wants to be responsible for sending a chunk of the continent into the sea.

Except as a former comics nerd i am pretty sure the "let's see what these powers of yours can really do" scene is probably coming. Doing something like that in this episode would have probably livened it up.

[ChelseaNH]

Earthquakes have consequences, so I can see why people are nervous about letting Skye kick the tires on her new powers.  But you can't expect someone to master a skill (like controlling her powers) without practice.

 

The thing that bugs me is that SHIELD acts like people with powers have to surrender all rights to self-determination.  Skye is special because she's their pal, but they still can't be bothered to talk to her about how she wants to deal with her powers; it's SHIELD's place to decide where and how she lives.

[marbenais]

The council from Avengers & Winter Soldier is the World Security Council, to which S.H.I.E.L.D. answered -- remember, they sent the nuclear weapon in Avengers over Fury's objections? "I recognize that the Council has made a decision, but given that it's a stupid-ass decision, I've elected to ignore it."

Given that Fitz was the one to figure out how Skye had changed, I think Coulson made a mistake only asking Simmons to help on the gauntlets. I know he is the champion of "different, not bad!" (understandably) but he knows the danger Skye herself faces without controlling her powers, much less the rest of the base. And world. Shutting him out of an engineering project, and one to help Skye, isn't going to end well.

Ward is so psychotic. You can tell because he's calm.

[Cranberry]

If anything, those gloves are a very early version of the gauntlets. Simmons designed them to reduce Skye's powers, and they have "a few" side effects. I assume that Fitz will end up helping with better versions down the line. Unlike Simmons, he's interested in helping Skye use her powers, not in taking them away.

[Donny Ketchum]

And, say what you want about Ward (he is definitely still villainous, creepy and crazy) but he is the only person who at least makes an effort with Agent 33. Who was basically a devoted Shiled agent who got captured, tortured, brainwashed and disfigured. And not a single person on Shield, either one, has ever cared about it. Guess this is how they repay loyalty when you are not a main character.

More than once, the heroes offered her a chance to be helped.  Each time, it was during fights with her.  Every time, she refused.  But I'm sure they'd still want to help her if they could.

[Aeryn13]

 

More than once, the heroes offered her a chance to be helped.  Each time, it was during fights with her.  Every time, she refused.

 

She was brainwashed so her refusal was to be expected. Thing is, if that had been one of their own aka the main cast, they would have moved heaven and hell to bring that person back. Not bitching/mocking about how she wears one of their faces and the haha of it now being disfigured. The way they dealt (or not dealt) with Agent 33 has been one area where I find the heroes to be complete jackasses.

 

It wouldn`t even be so bad if they didn`t claim some high ground in general in how they behave. It`s the same with "real Shield". They basically build their organization on claiming the high ground yet act completely hypocritical. 

 

Right now the characters I root most for on the show are Fitz and Hunter because I don`t wanna slap them silly most of the time. Comparatively on how I want to do that to the others. Skye is also surprisingly non-annoying in her new level of Chosen One-ness. 

 

 

[Lady Calypso]

Right now the characters I root most for on the show are Fitz and Hunter because I don`t wanna slap them silly most of the time. Comparatively on how I want to do that to the others. Skye is also surprisingly non-annoying in her new level of Chosen One-ness.

 

 

It's bad when I want these two, and Skye, to tell Coulson and his Secret Service Team, as well as New Shield, where to shove their secrets. I like Skye because she's trying to figure out what's wrong with her, and she wants support from her friends. Instead, Coulson sends her off to the Secret Cabin alone, gives her gloves from Simmons and says 'Ok, see ya'. I understand why Coulson sent her there. It's safer for a lot of people and stuff, but it also feels like Coulson is doing it for the wrong reasons. I'm not sure, but I don't think he's doing it in the right way and I don't even know what the right way is. 

 

Also, his getting Simmons to help him instead of Fitz is ridiculous. I feel like he didn't ask Fitz because of his TBI and that he doesn't trust him. It's clear now that Coulson prefers Simmons over Fitz. I'm wondering if it was like that last season, but this season definitely makes me feel like Coulson would be fine with getting rid of Fitz. And let's face it, Coulson has no grounds to stand on for getting pissy that Fitz lied to him for one measly day about Skye's condition. I know Skye's more dangerous than Coulson's symbol drawing, but....yeah, he was drawing symbols and had a perfectly fine time with not telling any of his team that he was going crazy. 

 

I was fine with Fitz telling Simmons off too because it wasn't that harsh. He was just saying that she changed just as much as him and Skye had, and it's true. I just think that getting Simmons to do the mechanical/technological stuff and not Fitz gives Fitz less to do, and it pushes him out yet again. Part of me gets why Coulson asked Simmons to do it, but then the other part just rolls my eyes at Coulson's clear favouritism. I don't blame Nu SHIELD for wanting him out. He actually is NOT a good director at all, and I believe them when they say he had changed after New York. 

 

Also, I feel bad for Hunter. His two closest friends have betrayed him, lied to him, and now tried to hold him hostage. I'm glad he ran away, but now I fear for his own life. Nu SHIELD sucks too. It's sad when Hydra seems to be more put together than these two SHIELDs. Also, Fitz is going to be betrayed once again when he finds out Mack is like Ward, a spy for another organization. Granted, this time it's just another SHIELD, but poor Fitz can't catch a break with his friendships! Ward, Simmons, Skye to an extent, and now Mack. I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to become a spy/double agent himself!

 

And Skye. Oh, Skye. She just wants someone to be there for her and to not judge her and to help her. Instead, she had Coulson locking her far away from anyone, Simmons who is saying she wants to help but no doubt she wants to cure her too so she can have 'normal' Skye again, and May who...actually isn't completely wrong but who isn't really helping that much either. I actually am not hating May either, because she's staying level headed about things. And the one person who actually was on her side and was working to find answers for her is being kept out of the loop.

 

Ward is entertaining when I accept the fact that he is full on villain and not close to redemption any time soon. His manipulating of Agent 33 was so entertaining, yet I believe that he's utterly dependent on her like she is of him. He really can't work alone, can he? But can he truly be a leader and not a lackey like he has been? That is the question.

 

Talbot cracks me up.

[Donny Ketchum]

Talbot cracks me up.

Me, too.  Though I will say that I liked that they didn't make him completely stupid.  He did have the presence of mind to realize that something was up and that the nanomask was involved.  And only checking the women was reasonable since Agent 33 had mostly used women for disguises and he hadn't seen her disguise as any man but himself up to now.  He just should've kept up the search for both genders.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Donny Ketchum

[Sandman]

I thought Simmons was given the task of the gauntlets because her specialization is the biological, and the technology is as much bio-science as engineering. Skye's "problem" is what the earthquake-generating is doing to her body and her environment.

And I think there's a least a possibility that SHIELD already knows of the existence of "real" SHIELD.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Sandman

[jhlipton]

It's bad when I want these two, and Skye, to tell Coulson and his Secret Service Team, as well as New Shield, where to shove their secrets. I like Skye because she's trying to figure out what's wrong with her, and she wants support from her friends. Instead, Coulson sends her off to the Secret Cabin alone, gives her gloves from Simmons and says 'Ok, see ya'. 

 

"Oh, by the way, there are side effects to using the gloves, but I'm too busy to give you critical information."  YARG!!!!

 

Me, too.  Though I will say that I liked that they didn't make him completely stupid.  He did have the presence of mind to realize that something was up and that the nanomask was involved.  And only checking the women was reasonable since Agent 33 had mostly used women for disguises and he hadn't seen her disguise as any man but himself up to now.  He just should've kept up the search for both genders.

 

I think the reasonable thing to do was form groups of three or four and check for IDs or doubles.  Agent 33 didn't bother knocking out or killing the woman she impersonated after Mrs Talbot, nor did she take her ID.  So smarter than he could have been, not as smart as he might have been.

[Kromm]

I don't like Not!SHIELD. They don't seem to act like the good guys to me what with all the spying and plotting and stuff. So, unless Bobbi turns out to be a plant from Fury in Not!SHIELD, she is not a good person either. I will  be disappointed if Coulson and his gang get overthrown by this group of back-stabbing fringe group. 

Especially since they started their explanation that they were all about transparency, then directly rolled over into how that somehow gave them the right to spy on Coulson, then take him down (presumably with extreme force, since they haven't simply had their moles slap some cuffs on him and drag him away) without being given any chance to explain himself.

I know I've used this line before but: Oh Glenn Talbot, will you ever win? Comic books, MCU it doesn't matter, he really is Marvel's punching bag.

Talbot always is the grand old idiot.  Every time.  

[John Seavey]

Six words.

New spinoff: Grant Ward - Life Coach.

"I think the problem is unresolved father issues. Let's kidnap and murder your dad."

[Sandman]

Bryan Fuller beat you to it. That show is already on, and it's called Hannibal.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Especially since they started their explanation that they were all about transparency, then directly rolled over into how that somehow gave them the right to spy on Coulson, then take him down (presumably with extreme force, since they haven't simply had their moles slap some cuffs on him and drag him away) without being given any chance to explain himself.

 

They Dendrotoxined the base, so no extreme force was necessary.

 

The scene with Gonzalez and him suggests Coulson got at least some chance to explain himself. 

[kitlee625]

Ward is so psychotic. You can tell because he's calm.

Also the creepy music that plays whenever he's on screen.

[Kromm]

They Dendrotoxined the base, so no extreme force was necessary.

 

The scene with Gonzalez and him suggests Coulson got at least some chance to explain himself. 

Well that makes it all better then!

 

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[Sandman]

I'm admittedly fuzzy on the timeline, but how widely known was TAHITI at the time of the Fall of S.H.I.E.L.D. (that is, the events the of The Winter Soldier)? It seems to me that Gonzalez's crew is conflating a bunch of stuff, and blaming Coulson for things that he didn't choose or control.

 

Also, I think the "real" S.H.I.E.L.D. sounds more than a little naïve, having joined a covert, paramilitary anti-insurgency agency, and then whining that it isn't run along democratic, transparent, non-hierarchical lines.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Sandman

[Raja]

I'm admittedly fuzzy on the timeline, but how widely known was TAHITI at the time of the Fall of S.H.I.E.L.D. (that is, the events the of The Winter Soldier)? It seems to me that Gonzalez's crew is conflating a bunch of stuff, and blaming Coulson for things that he didn't choose or control.

 

 

That was a close hold. i can only think of Director Fury,  Agent May and Dr. Streiten among the speaking characters who knew something about the project. However the New SHIELD had at least two agents inside with Coulson and from their reports could draw the wrong conclusions about  Coulson's and his team's past.

[John Potts]

You know, this ep had me wondering if Fury set up a whole bunch of successor organisations and seeing which was the most successful. Which might be a good idea - only it seems a little HYDRA-like. Though to be honest, SHIELD v Real SHIELD mostly made me think of the Judean Peoples' Front v The Peoples Front of Judea ("Splitter!") - except the massive resources they'd have to have to maintain their logistics (seriously, look at what it takes the US to maintain an aircraft carrier - even if you heroically assume you could maintain it with a tenth of the resources, it's still a vast budgetary commitment and where the hell are they getting the funds from!?).

 

OK, now I realise that I'm not meant to think about this and just look at the pretty explosions but then.... well, you shouldn't pretend it's set it in the real world!

 

HitFix  Coulson's team isn't to be trusted because they so often act not like professional spies, but like hormonal teenagers who have access to assault weapons and cloaking technology.

 

 

Exactly! I guess I'm meant to be on Coulson's side and he has had some real successes (like last week's sowing chaos within HYDRA) but he really needs to remember he's the head of an organisation and not Skye's adopted dad.

 

thuganomics85 And, I see they [Ward/33] are still killing people when they could just knock them out, so thankfully, I don't see a redemption path coming out of this.

 

Because it was totally unlike when our heroes were unnecessarily killing people! I know, it was "For Skye!" which makes it fine.