The Official Re-Read Project: Book 2: A Clash Of Kings

[Lady S.]

Tyrion's treatment of Thorne is disappointing and I don't even like Thorne. Tyrion is letting personal feelings get in the way of the safety of the realm. I noticed too that Pycelle was the one to ask Thorne how they might be able to help him. Tyrion's refusal to pause for a moment and think that a man like Thorne is incredibly unlikely to waste his time telling them some made up story. Tyrion respects Mormont and that should have been enough for him to at least see Thorne in private. It wouldn't be as frustrating if Tyrion didn't acknowledge to himself that he felt something dreadful that he couldn't explain. It's not that he necessarily has to believe Thorne's story but I think he should have at least made some more inquiries and maybe ask for some prisoners from other castles to answer the call to the NW since he knows they need men anyway. King's Landing certainly can't say that they weren't warned.

But even if he met Thorne in private and the hand was still moving around, what more could he really do at this time? No one else takes the NW seriously and they barely take Tyrion seriously, so I'm not sure other castles would care about requests to help the Watch. What's to say Duskendale or Rosby or wherever have enough prisoners in their dungeons? And I don't think more criminals is really what Mormont's after, they need a king to get personally involved as Stannis does later, but that's not going to happen when King's Landing is about to be under attack by Stannis.

 

I'm interested in the information we get from Pycelle.  At one point he confirms Renly's earlier claim that Robert was very close to setting Cersei aside, hopefully for Margaery.  You have to wonder how deep that plotting went or how that could have possibly played out, knowing that the crown is deeply in hock to the Lannisters and that Tywin Lannister wouldn't have taken it well.

I'm convinced Renly had to have known about the twincest and was just waiting until Robert met Marg and fell for her to reveal it. This plot is just way too thin otherwise, even by the standards of Renly's ability to think things through. Also, Pycelle knowing about the twincest here means every one of Robert's councilors except for Barristan and Renly definitely found out at some point. I don't give Renly credit for much, but I think he was probably savvier about court intrigues than Barristan was. (Sidenote, I like that when Pycelle, as a Lannister lickspittle, says that Robert was a bad king what he really means is Robert was a bad husband to Cersei, and not any of the ways Robert was a bad ruler.)

I confess I do feel Tywin's way of heads on spikes might have been the better course with Pycelle. Just throwing him in a dungeon and then releasing him later is only effective insofar as giving Tyrion a new enemy.

Another plotpoint of interest here is Tyrion's "peace terms" to Robb. His terms demand Jaime's release but make no mention of releasing Robb's sister(s), with the demand for hostages from Robb's bannermen implying, to me, that the girl(s) would be hostages a while longer to ensure Robb's own good behavior, as with Balon and Theon. He later wishes the goldcloaks could find Arya alive before Robb learned she was missing, never considering trying to trade only Sansa for Jaime. So, despite how much Tyrion and Cersei wanted Jaime back, I wonder what their reaction would be if Robb had actually offered to trade Jaime for his sisters, if they were unwilling to admit they only had Sansa.

I'm disappointed the show deprived us of Tyrion on the IT, Lancel singing to Cersei as she lounged in Robert's deathbed, and Cersei twirling Tyrion around before they toast to brotherly love.

[Avaleigh]

I'm interested in the information we get from Pycelle.

 

 

I wish that Tyrion had followed up with Pycelle when Pycelle said that he knows things about Varys that would chill Tyrion's blood. I'd want to know what Pycelle had to say about Littlefinger too since he was in such a forthcoming mood. 

[Lady S.]

I wish that Tyrion had followed up with Pycelle when Pycelle said that he knows things about Varys that would chill Tyrion's blood. I'd want to know what Pycelle had to say about Littlefinger too since he was in such a forthcoming mood.

Ooo yes, what does he know about Varys that's blood chilling? Any genuine answers about Varys would be very enlightening, we already know a lot more about Littlefinger.

[nodorothyparker]

I can buy the Renly theory.  It is interesting in light of the way Ned and Cersei talked in the first book like the twincest was some deep dark secret that men died for to have it slowly unfold in the second book that it and the kids' paternity was most likely fairly common knowledge within the small council and that everyone was simply sitting on the information until it could be used to their advantage.  It also says a lot about Robert as a king and as a person that not one of them save Ned ever felt any sense of obligation to clue him in on it and we know how that turned out.  

 

I too was struck by that fact that Tyrion's peace terms are no more likely than Robb's were.  That's somewhat to be expected I suppose to give each side a starting point to negotiate from, but I'm also reminded here that Robb began negotiations expecting Tyrion to adhere to his particular standards of honor while Tyrion is already planning a stealth attempt to break Jaime out that violates them.

 

I want to know what Pycelle knows about Varys too.  We've gotten far more background on Varys on the show than we ever have in the books.

[Avaleigh]

Arya VI

 

Fear is a constant part of Arya's days. She thought she knew what it was to be afraid but that was before she became one of Gregor Clegane's prisoners. Arya and the other captives are kept in a storeroom and each day after he has his breakfast the Mountain chooses a person for questioning. No one survives a questioning.

 

The victims are seemingly chosen at random and it doesn't matter who they are or what they say. A man called the Tickler asks the questions and he's sometimes helped by other Lannister men. The Mountain just stands there silently and watches and listens until each victim dies.

 

The victims are always asked the same questions and they're always questioned in front of the others so that the prisoners can see what happens to anyone who tries to rebel. They ask if they know where Beric Dondarrion is; they ask if there's any gold, silver, gems, or food in the villages; they ask after any villagers who might have helped Dondarrion and his men. After three days Arya feels that she can recite the questions herself.

 

They march on the eighth day and Arya thinks to herself that she's no water dancer. She thinks that Syrio would never have allowed them to take his sword and Syrio would never have stood by while Lommy was killed. She thinks the other prisoners act like sheep and she hates them almost as much as she feels like she hates herself.

 

The Lannisters had taken everything: father, friends, home, hope, courage. One had taken Needle, while another had broken her wooden stick sword over his knee. They had even taken her stupid secret. The storehouse had been big enough for her to creep off and make her water in some corner when no one was looking, but it was different on the road. She held it as long as she could, but finally she had to squat by a bush and skin down her breeches in front of all of them. It was that or wet herself. Hot Pie gaped at her with big moon eyes, but no one else even troubled to look. Girl sheep or boy sheep, Ser Gregor and his men did not seem to care.

 

The prisoners aren't allowed to talk to each other. Arya was given a broken lip before she learned this rule. Some people never learn at all. One three year old boy is permanently silenced after crying for his father too often and once this boy is killed, his mother mother starts screaming so they end up killing her too.

 

Arya sees that it doesn't do any good to be brave and that the brave prisoners are killed along with those who aren't. Most of the prisoners are women, children, and old men. Gendry was only allowed to live because he's trained as a smith and is considered to be too valuable to kill.

 

They're marching towards Harrenhal where they'll be serving Tywin and his men. The Mountain says that they'll obey and serve and will be permitted to live. He claims that this is more than they can expect from the outlaws.

 

Arya listens to an old woman talking about how unfair it all is and how she's had it with the main families involved. She spits three times in the name of the Tullys, Starks, and Lannisters.

 

One old man says that this never would have happened if the old king were still alive. Arya wonders if the man is referring to Robert but the man is actually talking about Aerys. The old man's comment is too loud so a guard knocks out the guy's remaining teeth.

 

The female prisoners are raped at night and one woman who is raped more than the others ends up having her head cut off by the Mountain after she hits one of her rapists with a rock. Arya sees Polliver with Needle and thinks to herself that it's probably better that she doesn't have it because she likely would have tried to attack the Mountain and then he probably would have killed her too.

 

Arya is getting to know the Lannister men. She thinks that Polliver isn't as bad as the others and knows that Shitmouth will give her extra food if she asks. She's also developing specific reasons for why she hates her captors.

 

Arya watched and listened and polished her hates the way Gendry had once polished his horned helm. Dunsen wore those bull's horns now, and she hated him for it. She hated Polliver for Needle, and she hated old Chiswyck who thought he was funny. And Raff the Sweetling, who'd driven his spear through Lommy's throat, she hated even more. She hated Ser Amory Lorch for Yoren, and she hated Ser Meryn Trant for Syrio, the Hound for killing the butcher's boy Mycah, and Ser Ilyn and Prince Joffrey and the queen for the sake of her father and Fat Tom and Desmond and the rest, and even for Lady, Sansa's wolf. The Tickler was almost too scary to hate. At times she could almost forget he was still with them; when he was not asking questions, he was just another soldier, quieter than most, with a face like a thousand other men.

 

Every night Arya recites the names of the people she hates. She remembers when she would pray in the sept with her mother or in the godswood with her father but these days she feels that the names are the only prayer she's capable of remembering.

 

The prisoners try to tell themselves that life will improve once they reach Harrenhal but Arya has serious doubts. She remembers Old Nan's stories about Harrenhal and how the place is said to be built on fear. According to Old Nan, Harren the Black had human blood mixed in with the mortar. Harren and his sons were eventually roasted to death by Aegon's dragons.

 

When they get closer to Harrenhal and are on the fringes of Tywin's camp, Arya can tell that Tywin's army has been at the castle for some time. The stink of the camp is overwhelming and the size of Harrenhal makes Winterfell seem small in comparison.

 

Hot Pie doesn't want to go inside and is afraid that there are ghosts in the castle. Chiswyck smiles when Hot Pie says this and says that he can either join the ghosts or become one.

 

Once the captives are inside they're made to strip and scrub inside of a bathhouse. When Arya is asked her name by one of the women supervising the process, she says that her name is Weasel.

 

The woman tells Arya that if she works hard then she'll be able to move up in the world. If she doesn't work hard then she'll be beaten. The woman thinks Arya's hair is going to be a lice magnet so she wants to cut it off before Arya starts work in the kitchens. Arya says that she'd rather work with the horses and this earns her another slap that splits her lip open again. Arya thinks that the woman wouldn't have dared to slap her if she still had Needle.

 

The woman explains that Lord Tywin and his knights have squires and grooms to tend to their horses so they certainly don't need Arya's help. She goes on to say that it's not so bad to work in the kitchens because they're warm and clean and there's always plenty to eat. She says that Arya might have done well there, but she doesn't feel that Arya is a clever girl. The woman decides that Arya should be given to a man called Weese.

 

Weese is an understeward in the Wailing Tower and Arya is one of six prisoners who are sent over to him. Weese tells the captives that if they work hard and keep to their place that they might be able move up one day. He instructs them to never look highborn people in the eye and says that they should never speak unless spoken to.

 

Weese tells the prisoners that his nose never lies and that it can sniff out defiance, pride, disobedience, etc. He tells them that the only thing he wants to smell them is fear.

[benteen]

What a grim chapter.  It truly sucks to be smallfolk in Westeros and these are what they have to deal with when their Lords go to war.

[Avaleigh]

Yeah, I don't have much for this chapter. Lots of death, torture, rape, hunger, and overall pain.

 

I liked the descriptions of Harrenhal. It seems like everyone in the 7K has heard about the curse that's supposedly on that place. I liked Hot Pie too having the choice of living with ghosts or becoming one. It's such a mean and brutal thing to say to a kid but I kind of chuckled. 

 

I did like Arya hearing that the smallfolk are angry with the three main families involved right now and that they aren't just boiling it down to the Lannisters since she seems to think that they're the only reason that life sucks right now. 

 

Arya's list--I liked seeing that Arya didn't seem to have any religious preference back when she was living at Winterfell. Sansa seemed to prefer the Faith of the Seven to the old gods in her early days but now she's all about the old gods and the godswood. Arya seems like she's rejected both and only looks to the god of death. 

 

Harren the Black sounds like he was a douchebag. 

 

Edited because preference is pretty different than reference. ;p

Edited February 4, 2016 by Avaleigh

[nodorothyparker]

It's a really grim chapter and one that seems at times to bump right up against the line of crossing over into an almost parody of just how awful can I make this this most awful.  Maybe because it's a child's POV.

 

I also caught that the smallfolk are pissed at all the great houses, which makes sense when you think about it.  They don't know who did what to who first or what their justification was.  They just know armies bearing those houses' sigils are destroying their villages and crops and killing their people over a fight that doesn't seem to have anything to do with them.  Anything more than that doesn't matter.  Also worth noting is the line about how good King Aerys never would have allowed this.  Considering how every noble POV has been about how awful Aerys was and what he did to their families, it's interesting that the smallfolk may not have perceived this at all.  It harkens back to what Jorah told Dany in the first book how the smallfolk don't really care who sits the Iron Throne as long as they have good summers and harvests and their children are healthy.  It would seem Aerys either succeeded or lucked out on that front.

[Lady S.]

I think it's important to note here that Arya's list comes from a place of terror and powerlessness, a need to feel control amid such gross injustice, which I don't think is really the same as cold-hearted vengeance. Also worth noting that she does become one of the "sheep" pretty easily, because her desire to survive outweighs any urges of defiance or revenge.

It harkens back to what Jorah told Dany in the first book how the smallfolk don't really care who sits the Iron Throne as long as they have good summers and harvests and their children are healthy.  It would seem Aerys either succeeded or lucked out on that front.

I hate to give him credit when this Harrenhal horror show is happening in his name, but I assume any success in the Mad King's reign had more to do with Tywin's administration (as well as luck) than anything Aerys did.

[Avaleigh]

Daenerys II

 

The ancient city of Qarth is all excited to welcome Dany and her khalasar, and Pyat Pree tells her that Qarth is the greatest city ever and that it's the center of the world.

 

Dany acknowledges the magnificence of the city and starts taking everything in. Qarth is surrounded by three elaborately carved walls. The first wall they go through is thirty feet high, it's made of red sandstone, and the carvings are of animals. The second wall is forty feet high, it's made of grey granite, and depicts scenes of war. The third wall is fifty feet high, it's made of black marble, and contains pornographic images that make Dany blush until she decides that she's being childish.

 

As Dany rides into the city, a bunch of basically naked kids scatter flower petals in her path. They're only wearing gold sandals and paint. The city is full of bright colors and elaborate fountains, and the Qartheen people are tall with pale skin. The women wear gowns that bare their left breast and the men are dressed in beaded silk shirts. Dany feels shabby and barbaric in her lionskin robe with Drogon on her shoulder. She remembers how Khal Drogo dreamed of eventually being able to sack Qarth and other cities in the east.

 

Pyat Pree leads Dany and her khalasar through the city and as they're passing through a bazaar, Xaro Xoan Daxos tells Dany that she may have anything that she desires. Pyat tells Xaro that all of Qarth is already Dany's and that she doesn't need any baubles from the bazaar. Pyat wants Dany to come to the House of the Undying and says that she'll be able to drink truth and wisdom while she's there.

 

Xaro replies that Dany isn't going to be interested in Pyat's dusty palace when Xaro can offer her a crown from The Thirteen.

 

Dany tells Pyat that the only palace she desires is the red castle in King's Landing. Dany is suspicious of Pyat and is wary of sorcery in general because of what happened with Mirri Maz Duur. Pyat smiles at her with his blue lips and tells her that it will be as she commands.

 

Xaro tells Dany that she is wise and tells her that it's said that a warlock's house is built of bones and lies. Dany wonders why the warlocks of Qarth are so revered in the east and Xaro explains that the warlocks were mighty once upon a time but are currently a shadow of what they used to be. He warns Dany that any gifts from Pyat will turn to dust in her hands.

 

Jorah thinks this is like the crow calling the raven black and tells Dany that she'd do well to avoid Xaro and Pyatt both. Dany feels that both men can help her take her crown but Jorah insists that it will be better if they choose not to linger.

 

Dany looks at Jorah and thinks of him as her great bear and even though he makes her feel safe, she also feels like he treats her more like his cub than like his Queen. She wishes that she could love him more than she does.

 

Xaro offers Dany the hospitality of his home and it turns out to be some palace that makes Illyrio's place look like a hovel in comparison. She has her own wing, there's room for everyone, and slaves to see to their needs. He tells Dany that they're going to have a feast the next day and that The Thirteen will pay homage to her.

 

Dany thinks about how all of Qarth is more interested in seeing her dragons than her but thanks Xaro anyway for his kindness. Pyatt takes his leave of Dany as well. Before he goes, he kisses her feet and gives her an ointment that will supposedly let her 'see the spirits of the air'.

 

Quaithe the shadowbinder is the last to leave and she has a warning for Dany. The masked woman tells Dany to beware.

 

"Of whom?"

 

"Of all. They shall come day and night to see the wonder that has been born again into the world, and when they see they shall lust. For dragons are fire made flesh, and fire is power."

 

After Quaithe leaves, Jorah tells Dany that Quaithe is right even if he doesn't like the shadowbinder any more than he likes Xaro or Pyat. Dany doesn't understand Quaithe and is disturbed that she's never seen the woman's face. She tells herself to remember Mirri Maz Duur.

 

Dany gives orders that they're to keep their own guard and that no one is to be given entry without her leave. She asks them to take special care that the dragons are guarded and Aggo tells her that it will all be as she says. She then asks Rahkaro to take some men and women to explore the parts of the city that Pyat Pree might not have wanted them to see.

 

She tasks Jorah with going to the docks to see what manner of ships are about. She hasn't had news from the Seven Kingdoms in half a year. She hopes that he'll be able to find a captain from Westeros who will take them all home.

 

Jorah says that the Usurper will kill her if she goes to Westeros and argues that his place is by her side. Dany says that Jhogo can protect her and tells Jorah that he has more language skills so he's the best guy for the job. It also helps that he doesn't have the issues with the sea that the Dothraki have. Jorah reluctantly agrees to do as she commands.

 

When all of the men are gone, Dany takes a bath and wonders whether the Red Keep has a pool and gardens that are like Xaro's.

 

Thinking about the Seven Kingdoms is unsettling for Dany and she thinks about how she doesn't want to reduce King's Landing to a blackened ruin. She wants her kingdom to be beautiful and full of happy people who smile at her as she rides as they once smiled for her father according to Viserys.

 

She knows before that can happen she has to conquer and then thinks back to how Jorah just told her that the Usurper will kill her. She thinks about how Robert killed Rhaegar and about how she and her unborn child were nearly poisoned. She thinks about the men who stood with Robert to take down her family and wonders how she can hope to overthrow such men.

 

Dany decides that the red comet led her to Qarth for a purpose and that she'll somehow find what she needs there. She hopes that she'll have the strength and wisdom to avoid any traps.

 

Dany is feeding her dragons when she is told that Jorah has returned and that he has company with him. Jorah presents a ship captain of the Cinnamon Wind named Quhuru Mo who tells her that he has a gift for her. The gift is the news that Robert Baratheon is dead.

 

She asks about the manner of Robert's death and is told about the boar. Mo also tells her about the rumors that are swirling. That Robert's queen may have had a hand, or his brother, or possibly even Lord Stark. He confirms again for Dany that Robert is really most sincerely dead.

 

Mo says that King Joffrey is on the throne now and that the Lannisters rule. He says that both of Robert's brothers have fled King's Landing and mentions that Lord Stark has been arrested for treason.

 

Jorah knows right away that's some bullshit and says there's no way that a man like Ned would besmirch his honor by committing treason. Dany asks what honor Stark could possibly have since he was a traitor to his true king.

 

Dany is pleased to hear that the Usurper's family and friends are now fighting amongst themselves now that Robert is dead. It makes her think of how the khalasar broke up when Drogo died. She wonders if Viserys would have been any wiser if he could have known that vengeance would be so close in coming.

 

Dany asks Mo when he's going back to Westeros and he tells her that it won't be for a year or more. She wishes him well and thanks him for delivering her such a precious gift. Mo replies that he's been amply repaid and Dany asks him what he means. He answers that he has seen dragons. Dany laughs and tells him to visit the Seven Kingdoms one day when she has taken her throne. She promises to give him a reward then. The captain agrees that he will and kisses her on her fingers before he leaves.

 

Once they're alone, Jorah chides Dany for speaking so freely about her plans and says that the captain is now going to spread the story wherever he goes. Dany thinks that's a good thing and wants the entire world to know her purpose.

 

Jorah cautions her that the status of things hasn't really changed since Joffrey still rules in Robert's place. Dany disagrees and says this changes everything. She compares Robert's death to Drogo's death and understands that Robert held the Seven Kingdoms together in a way that is similar to the way Drogo held his khalasar together.

 

Jorah tells Dany that lords fight with each other all the time but she's still going to need things like a fleet, gold, an army, and alliances if she's going to take back the Iron Throne.

 

"All this I know." She took his hands in hers and looked up into his dark suspicious eyes. Sometimes he thinks of me as a child he must protect, and sometimes as a woman he would like to bed, but does he ever truly see me as his queen? "I am not the frightened girl you met in Pentos. I have counted only fifteen name days, true . . . but I am as old as the crones in the dosh khaleen and as young as my dragons, Jorah. I have borne a child, burned a khal, and crossed the red waste and the Dothraki sea. Mine is the blood of the dragon."

 

Jorah replies that her brother had the blood of the dragon too. Dany says that she isn't Viserys and Jorah agrees that there is more of Rhaegar in her but even Rhaegar was eventually slain. He tells her that even dragons can die.

 

Dany says that dragons die but so do dragonslayers. She kisses Jorah on the cheek as she says this.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Avaleigh

[Avaleigh]

This is another chapter where not all that much happens. 

 

I liked seeing Quaithe's usual creepiness and warnings. I wonder if this lady ever has good news for anyone.

 

I'm surprised Dany wasn't grossed out when Pyat kissed her feet.

 

When I think of some of the palaces and things that Dany has seen in the East, I wonder if she'll be disappointed with the Seven Kingdoms. Westeros has some cool buildings and decent enough cities but buildings in Essos sound more grand and modern than what Westeros has to offer. Dany wondering if the Red Keep has a pool like that made me lol. 

 

It's true that Jorah doesn't exactly treat Dany like a queen. I know this is a line from the show but Dany almost seems like she's the one who is too familiar with Jorah rather than the other way around.  

 

It's interesting to see how much more eager Dany is to sail for Westeros. 

 

When I think of how nothing seems to happen in this chapter it makes me wonder if Pyat Pree will end up being more of a thing after all when I think of how the House of the Undying are still supposedly after Dany on the show. With Euron coming next season I'm curious to see if this will turn out to be a thing. 

 

Bran is up next. That chapter doesn't seem particularly exciting either. Catelyn's chapter seems like it's the next good one. 

[Lady S.]

Jorah doesn't think they should linger in Qarth and doesn't think they should sail to Westeros yet, so where does he want her to go?

Yeah, I got nothing for this chapter.

 

Bran is up next. That chapter doesn't seem particularly exciting either. Catelyn's chapter seems like it's the next good one.

There's another Tyrion/Arya double header before Cat III. Arya's chapters should get easier once she gets her murder genie, and Tyrion's Clash chapters are always entertaining.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Lady S.

[Avaleigh]

Yeah, I saw that we have Arya and Tyrion too before Cat but neither chapter got me too excited. Cat's though definitely. I don't remember her being a favorite POV the first time around but she's around for some of the most exciting stuff the more I think about it. 

 

In the first book especially I was struck by how much I enjoyed the description of the ascent into the Eyrie. I'm curious about what her thoughts are going to be regarding Stannis vs. Renly since my memories of it aren't clear. I'm going to post Bran in a bit because I want to get through these so that we can get to more of the action. 

[benteen]

Doesn't Jorah saying something about Ned's "blasted honor."  Maybe something like "Ned Stark and his blasted honor"?  That was the first indication to me that while he told Dany in the last book that he did stuff he wasn't proud of (sell people into slavery) he still feels as though he shouldn't be punished for his actions.  That's a major flaw in Jorah's character. 

[Avaleigh]

Bran IV

 

Meera is playing a game with Summer where she's armed with a frog spear and a net. Summer leaps towards her and ends up getting caught in her net before he slams into her chest and knocks her over backward. Her spear falls away and Summer is crouched on top of her.

 

Bran tells Meera that she loses the game but Jojen says that Meera wins because Summer is caught in the net. Bran sees that Jojen is right and that Summer is unable to free himself. Bran asks for Summer to be let out so Meera laughs and sets the direwolf free.

 

Meera asks Bran if Summer ever gets angry and Bran says that Summer is never angry with him. He says that Summer has torn his clothes before when they play but he's never drawn blood. Meera says that Summer hasn't made him bleed before but it might have been different for Meera if he'd managed to get past her net. Bran tells Meera that Summer would never hurt her because Summer knows that Bran likes her.

 

The Reeds have been Bran's constant companions since their arrival and they've remained at Winterfell while all of the other lords and ladies who attended the harvest feast have gone. Bran wishes that the Reeds could be their wards instead of the two Walders.

 

Bran comments that he's never known anyone who's fought with a net before and wonders if Meera learned how from her master-at-arms. Meera replies that her father taught her and says that they don't have knights, maesters, ravens or a master-at-arms at Greywater Watch. Ravens aren't able to find Greywater Watch because it moves and Bran wonders if she's teasing him because he's never heard of a moving castle before.

 

Bran asks Meera if her father would allow him to visit once the war is over and Meera replies that he would be most welcome any time. Bran decides that he wants to ask Ser Rodrik if he'll be able to go once the knight returns to Winterfell. He thinks that Maester Luwin would say no. 

 

The old knight was off east, trying to set to rights the trouble there. Roose Bolton's bastard had started it by seizing Lady Hornwood as she returned from the harvest feast, marrying her that very night even though he was young enough to be her son. Then Lord Manderly had taken her castle. To protect the Hornwood holdings from the Boltons, he had written, but Ser Rodrik had been almost as angry with him as with the bastard. "Ser Rodrik might let me go. Maester Luwin never would."

 

Jojen tells Bran that it will be good for him to leave Winterfell and sooner rather than later. Meera explains that her brother has the green sight and dreams about things that haven't yet happened but sometimes do. Jojen corrects Meera and makes it clear that he thinks his dreams always come true.

 

Bran wants to hear about what Jojen thinks is going to happen so Jojen agrees that he'll share his dreams with Bran if Bran is willing to share his in return. Bran claims that he doesn't have dreams at first and says that Maester Luwin gives him sleeping draughts that sometimes help.

 

Meera informs Bran that all of Winferfell knows that he wakes up at night shouting and sweating. Jojen asks Bran to tell them what frightens him so much and Bran is resistance. He says the dreams don't mean anything anyway according to Maester Luwin.

 

Meera talks about how green dreams are different than normal dreams and Bran thinks about how when Jojen sometimes looks at people he looks as though he's seeing something else. Jojen is having one of those moments now and talks about how he had a dream about a winged wolf that's bound to the earth with chains. In the dream there's a crow that's trying to peck through the chains.

 

When Jojen confirms for Bran that the crow has three eyes, this leads to him telling Bran about how the crow first came to him after he almost died from greywater fever. Bran tells Jojen that the crow first came to him after his fall and told him that he had to fly or die.

 

Jojen is convinced that Bran is the winged wolf from his dream and thinks that he and Meera are there to help break the chains. Bran asks if the crow is at Greywater Watch and Jojen says that the crow is north beyond the Wall.

 

Meera says that it was after Jojen told his father about his dream that their lord father sent them to Winterfell to see Bran.

 

Bran asks Jojen how to break the chains and Jojen tells him that he has to open his third eye. Bran says that he only has two eyes and Jojen explains to Bran that the crow gave him a third eye that he hasn't opened yet.

 

"With two eyes you see my face. With three you could see my heart. With two you can see that oak tree there. With three you could see the acorn the oak grew from and the stump that it will one day become. With two you see no farther than your walls. With three you would gaze south to the Summer Sea and north beyond the Wall."

 

Bran doesn't feel like he needs to see that far and wants to change the subject. He suggests they talk about wolves or lizard lions and asks Meera if she's ever hunted any lizard lions where she's from. 

Jojen asks Bran if he had a dream about a lizard lion and Bran gets angry that Jojen won't drop the subject of dreams. Bran tells Jojen that he doesn't have to tell him about his dreams and reminds Jojen that he's a prince.

 

Jojen asks Bran if he dreamt that he was in Summer's body on the night of the harvest feast. Bran shouts at Jojen to stop and Summer starts baring his teeth at Jojen. Jojen presses on and says that he felt Bran in Summer when he touched him just as he feels Bran in Summer now. Jojen says that he even felt it when Bran fell and asks Bran if it's the falling that scares him.

 

Bran thinks back to his fall and remembers that the queen's brother scares him too but it's mostly the falling. Bran hasn't told anyone about what he remembers and hopes that he might forget. He doesn't want to remember and thinks that what he does remember might not even be accurate.

 

When Jojen asks Bran if he falls every night, Summer starts growling and Meera feels like she has to step in between Jojen and Summer. She tells Bran to keep Summer back but Bran simply responds that Jojen is making Summer angry. Meera shakes out her net and tells Bran that he's the one who's angry and fearful.

 

Bran tries to deny it and is told that part of Summer is him and part of him is Summer and that on some level he already knows this.

 

Summer rushes forward after this is said but Meera keeps him back and tells Bran to call the direwolf off. Summer lunges again and now Shaggydog has joined the scene. Meera tells Bran to call off the direwolves but Bran says he can't. Meera tells Jojen to climb up a tree but Jojen says there's no need because this isn't the day he dies. Meera yells at him to get in the tree and the two of them both end up climbing into the weirwood before they get chomped on by one of the direwolves.

 

Bran yells for Hodor and feel scared and embarrassed by what's happened. He doesn't think that the direwolves will hurt Hodor so he calls for him and when Hodor shows up half naked and spattered in mud, Bran asks him to chase away the direwolves. Hodor does this happily and Shaggydog soon runs off. Summer backs away and goes back to lay down beside Bran.

 

Meera and Jojen climb back down to the ground and Meera quickly grabs her net and spear again. Jojen tells Bran that they'll talk again.

 

Bran thinks that it wasn't his fault and starts to wonder if Maester Luwin is right to keep the direwolves in the godswood. He asks Hodor to bring him to Maester Luwin.

 

With Ser Rodrik away, all of the responsibility of running the castle is on Maester Luwin.

 

Luwin comments that Bran is early for lessons and Bran starts talking to the maester about how Meera says that Jojen has the greensight. Bran remembers Luwin saying that the children of the forest had the greensight. Luwin says that some claimed to have that power and that their wise men were called greenseers.

 

Luwin goes on to say that no one knows for sure but the First Men seemed to think that the greenseers could see through the faces of the weirwood trees. That was why they cut down the trees when they were still at war with the children. Supposedly the greenseers had power over animals as well.

 

Bran talks about how Meera says that Jojen's dreams sometimes come true and Luwin replies that all people have dreams that come true sometimes. He brings up the time Bran had the dream about Ned being in the crypts of Winterfell and Bran points out that Rickon had the exact same dream. Luwin says Bran can call it greensight if he wants and asks him about all of the other thousands of dreams he's had that haven't come true. 

 

Luwin points out the Valyrian steel that is on his maester's chain and tells Bran that he got it from the Citadel because he's studied the 'higher mysteries' or magic. Most maesters don't bother to get that link on their chain because it isn't terribly useful. Luwin says that those who study the higher mysteries end up trying their own spells sooner or later and admits that he was no different. He tried his hand at spells but nothing happened and he says it's because magic doesn't work.

 

Bran says that magic sometimes does work and cites the shared dream he and Rickon had as evidence. He also brings up the warlocks and mages in the east, but Luwin says there are men who can make it seem as though they're performing magic, it doesn't mean they really are.

 

Luwin says it's possible that magic was once a force in the world but that isn't the case any longer. He says Valyria was the last ember of magic and that's long gone. The dragons, giants, and children of the forest are all gone.

 

Luwin says that Jojen may have had a dream that he believes came true but he isn't a greenseer. He says that no living man has that power.

 

Bran tells Meera this later on when she goes to visit him and apologizes for what happened with the direwolves. He says that Summer shouldn't have tried to hurt Jojen but also feels that Jojen shouldn't have said those things about Bran's dreams. Bran says that the crow and Jojen both lied about how he'd be able to fly.

 

Meera suggests that Luwin might be wrong but Bran doesn't think he is and tells Meera that even his father always relied on the maester's counsel. Meera says that she's sure Bran's father would listen to Luwin but that he would ultimately make his own decisions. She asks Bran if she can tell him about a dream Jojen had about him and the two Walders.

 

In the dream, Luwin serves Bran a piece of roast at a feast that makes everyone's mouth water. The meat he serves two Walders is old and grey but the two Walders like their food more than Bran likes his. Bran doesn't understand but Meera says that Jojen thinks he will and that when he does they'll talk then.

 

Bran is almost afraid to go to dinner that night but there isn't anything unusual about the meal and Bran believes Maester Luwin. He doesn't think anything bad is coming to Winterfell and is both relieved and disappointed. He feels like as long as there's magic the possibilities are endless.

 

In bed later on he tells himself that there is no magic and that stories are only stories. He thinks about how he'll never walk, fly, or be a knight.

[Avaleigh]

One thing that jumped out at me during this chapter is how Meera says that ravens can't find Greywater Watch. I wonder how Ned sent Howland all of those letters. 

 

I kind of laughed that Meera had no patience for Jojen's 'this is not the day I die' line because you know she's heard it so many times. The Meera I picture is very different than the actress they have on the show. That being said, I still like the actress on the show. 

 

Bran pulls the prince card when he has to deal with things he doesn't like. 

 

So Bran does remember that it was Jaime, he just doesn't want to tell anyone because he's afraid of what will happen? I wonder what would have happened if he'd told Ser Rodrik and Maester Luwin. 

 

I find it interesting that Hodor is capable of scaring away the direwolves. 

 

It's funny that Luwin's insistence that there is no magic comes right on the heels of a chapter where we know there's some kind of magic in the air based Dany's story. Plus in future books we know that Luwin is wrong about the giants and children being gone. It's too bad that somebody who would have been so interested to see glass candles, dragons, cotf, giants, etc is killed before he can find out. 

[nodorothyparker]

I got nothing on the Dany chapter either except remembering that when I first read it thinking that as eager as she is to get moving that we probably wouldn't be in Qarth or any of the other seemingly uninvolved places on the other side of the world long.  She didn't have a lot in the way of resources for anyone to take her seriously as a conqueror yet, but she had will and momentum.  Little did I know.

 

A lot of the vague magic and talking in riddles bores me.

[nodorothyparker]

Annnnnd we almost immediately get word that all the dithering and inaction on the Lady Hornwood situation blew up almost exactly like it was feared it would, which also takes Ser Rodrik out of the mix of those able to manage and protect Winterfell.

 

I read Bran's thoughts on the "golden man" Jaime as he's not quite sure if it's something he actually remembers or if maybe it's something he just dreamed.  Either way, he's afraid of remembering the fall and doesn't want to remember it so says nothing.  I'd be curious to know how either of the adults would have reacted had he told too, although with a war on, Ned dead, and both Catelyn and Robb gone it probably wouldn't have changed all that much by this point.

 

I seriously never really know what to make of the Reeds.  They apparently live in some magic moving castle that's Unplottable (thanks for that, Harry Potter) and despite most people not really believing there's much magic left in the world, all it takes is one magic dream for their father to be packing them off to Winterfell to share it.  But then, magical riddles continue to bore me.

[Lady S.]

I seriously never really know what to make of the Reeds.  They apparently live in some magic moving castle that's Unplottable (thanks for that, Harry Potter) and despite most people not really believing there's much magic left in the world, all it takes is one magic dream for their father to be packing them off to Winterfell to share it.  But then, magical riddles continue to bore me.

I can't deal with Jojen Reed, this wise little shaman guy who knows when he's going to die and never once acts like an actual kid. His weirdness can't just be because the crannogmen remember things other northerners forgot and had closer ties to the CotF because all that should apply equally to Meera, who acts normally enough and isn't known as Little Grandmother or anything. He has prophetic dreams but he's not the only one there either. Bloodraven is 99.9% tree in the main series and he still comes across as having more human emotions than Jojen.

I also wondered how Ned sent letters to Greywater Watch without the use of ravens, but I guess he must have done it the harder way by sending a human messenger down into the Neck to ask around for Howland, the same way Robb was planning to contact Howland from the South to re-take Moat Cailin in ASOS.

[benteen]

What poor bastard got stuck with the trip to Greywater Watch delivering mail for Ned do you think?

Edited February 8, 2016 by benteen

[vibeology]

I'm sure Ned gave that job to someone he trusted a great deal and considered it an honour. The other option is that Ned sent the letter to Moat Cailin by raven and Reed sent someone to pick it up, like a post office.

 

But really, all this fun speculating aside, can I tell you all how much I really want to meet Howland Reed at some point in this story. The man was trusted to go south with Ned, was at the Tower of Joy, has Jojen for a son and sends all of his heirs on what Jojen knew (and I think would share with his Dad based on what we know about Jojen) was a one way trip to help Bran. Who is this guy? Of all the off-screen characters or all the mysteries, Howland Reed is my personal favourite because I feel like I already know him in some way but I'm also certain that if he ever shows up, he'll reveal at least one thing that will blow my mind. This guy is such a mystery to me and I really hope at some point we get to meet him.

[Lady S.]

I'm sure Ned gave that job to someone he trusted a great deal and considered it an honour. The other option is that Ned sent the letter to Moat Cailin by raven and Reed sent someone to pick it up, like a post office.

Are there actually people in Moat Cailin in peacetime, though? It's not any family's seat so I didn't get the impression people really stay there with a full-time maester and ravenry.

[Avaleigh]

Tyrion VII

 

It's well after midnight when Tyrion is informed by his squire that Lancel is there to see him. Tyrion tells Pod to bring Lancel to his solar and decides to keep his cousin waiting for awhile in the hope that he'll grow anxious. He eventually goes to join Lancel and asks him why he's there.

 

Lancel says that he's there on behalf of Cersei to see that Grand Maester Pycelle is released, and presents Tyrion with a warrant. Tyrion inquires after Cersei's health and is disappointed to learn that she has already recovered from her poisoning. He thinks to himself that he ought to have given her a larger dose.

 

Tyrion sees that Lancel's knighthood has made him bold and asks his cousin why Cersei wouldn't come herself if the release of Pycelle is so important to her. Lancel seems to be enjoying his new role and tells Tyrion that Pycelle is under Cersei's personal protection. He tells Tyrion that Cersei wants him to remind him that she's Joffrey's regent. Tyrion replies that he's Joffrey's Hand and Lancel says that the Hand may serve but the Regent is there until the King comes of age. 

 

Tyrion learns that Ser Jacelyn Bywater has refused Cersei's order to have Pycelle released and now she wants to have Bywater fired and thrown into prison for treason.

 

Tyrion tells Lancel that he isn't going to be warned by him and Lancel replies that Tyrion should mind his tongue. Tyrion thinks that Lancel's attempts to look threatening are a joke and tells his cousin that one shout from him and Shagga will come in and kill him and it won't be done with a wineskin.

 

Lancel goes all red in the face after Tyrion says this and Tyrion asks him if he received his knighthood before or after Cersei allowed him into her bed. Lancel doesn't speak but Tyrion can tell from his eyes that the affair with Cersei is true. He thinks to himself that Cersei can never be accused of not loving her family.

 

Lancel tells Tyrion to take his comments back and Tyrion asks Lancel how he thinks Joffrey will respond once he's told that Lancel murdered Robert so that he could go to bed with Cersei.

 

Lancel is horrified and tries to defend himself. He says that Cersei gave him the strongwine and that Tywin instructed him to obey Cersei's every command. When Tyrion asks Lancel if Tywin also asked him to fuck Cersei, Lancel starts stammering and repeats that he was only following orders. Tyrion thinks to himself that Cersei must've preferred having this pale imitation of Jaime over having an empty bed.

 

When Tyrion threatens to go to Joffrey, Lancel goes to his knees and starts begging his cousin for mercy. Tyrion tells Lancel to save his begging for Joffrey, and Lancel claims that he was only doing what Cersei told him to do. He begs some more and asks to be allowed to leave the city.

 

Tyrion says that there's no way that Lancel is leaving King's Landing and explains that his new role will be to report Cersei's activities to Tyrion. He forces Lancel to drink the cup of wine that he refused earlier in order to seal the deal on their new understanding and says that Pycelle will be released so that Cersei will think that Tyrion is trying to work with her.

 

Tyrion says that Cersei can either keep Pycelle or send him to the Wall but he'll no longer be a member of the small council. Regarding the matter of Ser Jacelyn, Tyrion instructs Lancel to give Cersei the impression that he'll be able to win Jacelyn away from Tyrion in time.

 

Before Lancel leaves, Tyrion says that he wants to make sure that Cersei doesn't end up pregnant from their encounters. Lancel confesses that he's been pulling out and Tyrion warns him to keep it that way because he doesn't want to have to deal with anymore nephews.

 

Lancel leaves and Tyrion thinks about the overall situation.

 

Tyrion allowed himself a moment to feel sorry for the boy. Another fool, and a weakling as well, but he does not deserve what Cersei and I are doing to him. It was a kindness that his uncle Kevan had two other sons; this one was unlikely to live out the year. Cersei would have him killed out of hand if she learned he was betraying her, and if by some grace of the gods she did not, Lancel would never survive the day Jaime Lannister returned to King's Landing. The only question would be whether Jaime cut him down in a jealous rage, or Cersei murdered him first to keep Jaime from finding out. Tyrion's silver was on Cersei.

 

Tyrion feels restless so he wakes up Pod and tells him to first summon Bronn and then to saddle up two horses.

 

Bronn arrives and asks Tyrion what the problem is and Tyrion tells him that it's Cersei as usual. Tyrion comments that Cersei seems to be under the impression that she's dealing with another Ned Stark.

 

The city is especially dangerous at night but Tyrion feels safe enough with Bronn. He thinks about the men who were Hand before him and how they both ended up being outmatched by Cersei. He thinks that both men were too noble and honest to live.

 

They go to Chataya's and Chataya apologizes for not having any good wine. She says it's impossible to get any these days.

 

Other patrons are giving Tyrion the side eye while he waits and one of the girls soon goes over to him and sits on his lap. Dancy flirts with him and tries to get him to choose being with her over Alayaya. He thinks about how Shae is waiting for him at the manse and tells Dancy maybe next time.

 

Alayaya interrupts the conversation and reminds Dancy that Tyrion is there to see her. Dancy flirts with Tyrion for another moment and Tyrion stands so that he can go with Alayaya. As Alayaya escorts Tyrion up the stairs she reveals that Dancy was trying to win a bet with another one of the girls who works at the brothel. Tyrion knows that he won't allow Dancy to win her bet because he finds himself wanting to be loyal to Shae.

 

Before Tyrion leaves Alayaya, he asks her how she passes the time when she's supposed to be with him. She tells him that she usually sleeps but is thinking about spending the time reading now that she's being taught how.

 

As Tyrion rides to the manse he thinks about Tysha and about how she turned out to only be someone Jaime hired for a job. 

 

All of the guards at the manse are ugly because Tyrion doesn't want to risk having some good looking guy hanging around Shae day after day. Tyrion doesn't use any of the clansmen from the Vale because he knows that their presence would point directly to him and everyone would know that Shae is his mistress.

 

Tyrion goes into Shae's room and watches her sleep. He thinks she's better than any of the girls at Chataya's and wonders how it's possible for a prostitute to look so sweet and innocent. Just looking at her makes him hard so he goes down on her and has sex with her for a few seconds. Shae wakes up and tells Tyrion that she's just had the sweetest dream.

 

"This is no dream," he promised her. It is real, all of it, he thought, the wars, the intrigues, the great bloody game, and me in the center of it . . . me, the dwarf, the monster, the one they scorned and laughed at, but now I hold it all, the power, the city, the girl. This was what I was made for, and gods forgive me, but I do love it . . .

 

He thinks that he might love Shae too.

[Avaleigh]

Another chapter I don't have much for.

 

Crazy that Tyrion already thinks that Lancel won't live out the year.

 

I'm really appreciating Jacelyn Bywater during this read. I would love to know what what message he had for Cersei when he refused her command. Cersei is continuing to learn what little power she has at the end of the day.

 

I liked the line about Alayaya learning to read.  

 

The character Marei caught my attention for the first time. I don't think it will mean anything terms of plot but I wondered if she could be a Lannister bastard given her name and appearance. I wonder too how common it is for prostitutes in King's Landing to be literate.

 

Arya is up next. 

[benteen]

I was happy when Lancel's arrogant self-importance was taken away from him by Tyrion.

 

I like Bywater too.  He was a competent knight to have around King's Landing and there are too few of them.

[vibeology]

Getting to know Alayaya only makes what's coming her way all the more upsetting.

 

As for Lancel, I feel sorry for the kid. I feel like once you're in your teens you should know better than to sleep with your married/recently widowed cousin, but I can see how he was quickly way over his head. Neither Cersei or Tyrion really care about him and both know that he's probably going to be dead soon. Considering he's their cousin, that's pretty cold. These people are Tywin's kids through and through in that regard. Neither would ever actually kill him themselves, but he more useful to them on his current path so neither is going to save him. Even if Lancel isn't the most useful person, Uncle Kevan cares about him a great deal and that's risking making an enemy.

 

I think we see Tyrion making a few mistakes in this chapter. Letting Pycelle out doesn't seem all that smart. He's not really fixing things with Cersei because Pycelle isn't allowed back on the Small Council but he isn't keeping Pycelle neutralized. Tyrion remembers the piss-soaked old man and thinks Pycelle isn't a threat, but he can be when motivated and now he's motivated by hate for Tyrion.

 

I also think his Shae obsession is pretty bad here. Its far less likely Alayaya or Shae would be in danger if he actually slept around at the brothel. Really, by this point he should have just sent Shae away. He knows Cersei is dangerous, he knows that there is still danger from the Baratheons, from the Starks and from the poor hungry people in the city who keep attacking rich folks. Sending her away would keep her safe and remove a personal weakness.

[Avaleigh]

I felt a pang about Alayaya too when I remembered that it shouldn't be long now before she ends up getting caught in the crossfire. 

 

I agree that it would have been smarter for Tyrion to spend time with a couple of other women just to make it seem like he isn't interested in one in particular. With Dancy though, before Alayaya made the bet reveal, I briefly wondered if she was on Littlefinger's payroll. 

 

Vibeology, I agree with your thoughts on Lancel. On one hand I agree that he should have known better than to have an affair with the queen whether she's married or unmarried but he's sixteen so it isn't surprising that he'd get in over his head. What's disappointing about Tyrion is that he only cares about power and what Lancel can do for him. He could have allowed Lancel to leave King's Landing but he wants the kid to get in even deeper into this mess and knows that an early death is the likely outcome if Lancel sticks around. He doesn't care because he'd rather have an extra spy in his pocket. It's the smart move but it shows how cold he can be.

 

Your point about Kevan is interesting because it made me wonder if Tyrion is right that Jaime would kill Lancel for sleeping with Cersei. I know Jaime acts without thinking but I wonder if he'd be able to get away with killing his cousin in cold blood. It's not like he can even say what the reason would be and it would probably count as kinslaying. 

 

Imagine if Pycelle knew how close he'd come to being sent to the Wall?

 

The Shae stuff is mostly tiresome to me. 

[nodorothyparker]

A couple of things get me in this chapter.  The focus begins with Lancel, who's really just a poor dumb teenage boy who should probably know better but clearly doesn't probably as a combined result of being the queen's chosen sex partner and a certain amount of Lannister cockiness, but it's Tyrion dangerous cockiness that's setting the stage for a lot what's to come.  He's busy patting himself on the back for putting a 16-year-old in a bad position and writing off Pycelle as a doddering old fool who can't possibly do him any harm even as he's reassuring himself that he's much much smarter and better at playing the game than the previous hands who ended up on the wrong side of Cersei.  He's pretty cold thinking about poisoning Cersei and in his estimation of what Lancel's fate is likely to be and he never once considers the enemies he might be making if things turn out wrong.

 

Tyrion's also romanticizing Shae pretty seriously here.  I'm no Shae fan either because Book Shae is fairly one note even if he never manages to see it until the end, but here Tyrion's fixated on how he's taking care of her and he's faithful to her and attributes all good things to her yet apparently still had enough presence of mind to give her only old or ugly bodyguards to ward off any temptation.  But even there he doesn't seem to recognize any disconnect in that.

Edited February 9, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[Lady S.]

This is the chapter I was thinking of where it's clear Tyrion is using Shae as his Tysha replacement. He wants to be faithful to Shae and not let her go, as if she's his wife, and hearing singing makes him think of Tysha even though it wasn't actually their song. He isn't freed from Tysha's memory at all because it's not Shae herself he's interested in, it's the performance he's paying her for, which he believes Tysha was also paid for, by Jaime. He's so desperate to have a wife or mistress, a woman to love him and who he can love in return, that he'll settle for getting attached to a hired mistress, even though intellectually he knows it isn't real. That kind of loneliness and hunger for love and intimacy is something I can really feel for, but I don't think I ever needed to read about Tyrion's beard getting soaked from going down on Shae.

 

The character Marei caught my attention for the first time. I don't think it will mean anything terms of plot but I wondered if she could be a Lannister bastard given her name and appearance.

If she's older than Shae, she could even be Tywin Lannister's bastard, though in that case I think her mother never told him.

 

Your point about Kevan is interesting because it made me wonder if Tyrion is right that Jaime would kill Lancel for sleeping with Cersei. I know Jaime acts without thinking but I wonder if he'd be able to get away with killing his cousin in cold blood. It's not like he can even say what the reason would be and it would probably count as kinslaying.

I wonder about that too because I think Tyrion knows Jaime and Cersei pretty well, or at least understands them better than they understand each other. When Jaime did meet up with Lancel in Feast, I think his lack of anger had to do with his recent break-up with Cersei and Lancel's recent transformation into someone even more pathetic who was a victim of Cersei's himself, so instead all of Jaime's rage was directed at Cersei (his very, very close kin). If Jaime openly murdered Lancel when Tywin and Kevan were alive, it would surely cause big problems in the family. So I guess the real question is if he could manage to keep his role as Lancel's killer a secret, but secret and well-planned murders aren't really Jaime's style. The best I can come up with is that could challenge Lancel to a duel. Kevan would still be upset if Lancel died that way, but it wouldn't be cold-blooded murder.

Interesting that Tyrion felt the need to make sure Lancel was pulling out. Does he really think Cersei is stupid enough to have a baby with no husband to pin it on, especially when she doesn't want Jaime to know of her affair with Lancel?

Edited February 10, 2016 by Lady S.

[Avaleigh]

Regarding Tyrion's thoughts about Lancel possibly getting Cersei pregnant, the main thing I took away from this is that Tyrion doesn't seem to have knowledge of moon tea. Moon tea seems like something that was probably thought of later.

[SeanC]

Regarding Tyrion's thoughts about Lancel possibly getting Cersei pregnant, the main thing I took away from this is that Tyrion doesn't seem to have knowledge of moon tea. Moon tea seems like something that was probably thought of later.

Yeah, there's no mention of moon tea before the third book, and if you look back over the first two there are a number of scenarios where you'd think it would have been useful (like assorted pregnant prostitutes).

[Avaleigh]

Cersei doesn't drink moon tea to rid herself of Robert's baby either.

[Holmbo]

I always thought of moon tea as essentially poison. I know in my country women used to drink decoction from lilies to miscarriage when they got pregnant. Though GRRM is using this as both a contraceptive and a abortifact right? Jeyne was tricked by her mother into drinking it every day. She'd feal quite lousy if it was poison.

 

Also I always sort of assumed there were actual herbs in nature which could be used as contraceptives. Too much reading of thos Jean M Auel books I suppose.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Holmbo

[SeanC]

In RL, the ingredients that make moon tea would be poisonous if you actually brewed them.  That isn't the case in ASOIAF, where it appears to be both a contraceptive and an abortifacient depending on when you use it.

[DigitalCount]

I think it's rather funny that there are so many things that we think of as ASoIaF mainstays that are just part of the world, and yet going back it's almost jarring to see their sudden inclusion in later books. I guess that's a testament to GRRM's ability to world-build. 

[Lady S.]

Cersei doesn't drink moon tea to rid herself of Robert's baby either.

Cersei just said that Jaime found a woman to "cleanse" her, but I always imagined that to be an herbal concoction of some sort, though probably not in tea form. Anyways, yes, if magical moon tea existed from the start Cersei could have maybe prevented a pregnancy by Robert to begin with. I've been thinking of a moon tea which somehow magically works as a contraceptive, and tea with tansy, pennyroyal, etc. for those who didn't use contraception and need an herbal abortion, but I just realized the text/GRRM muddies things up because the wiki cites Lady Smallwood saying the riverlands are full of maids pleased by Tom o' Sevens "all drinking tansy tea". Oy.

[Avaleigh]

Arya VII

 

Arya sleeps in a niche in the vaults beneath the Waling Tower at Harrenhal. Whatever names Harren the Black gave to the towers of his castle are long forgotten and these days the other towers are known as the Tower of Dread, the Widow's Tower, the Tower of Ghosts, and Kingspyre Tower. Life seems to have improved a bit for Arya and even though there's a lot of hard work, she's allowed to wash and be clean and she no longer has to scrounge around looking for bugs and worms to eat. They even get a bit of meat once every fortnight.

 

Hot Pie is eating well over in the kitchens and he and Arya find opportunities to sometimes talk. He keeps forgetting that she isn't 'Arry' and can't seem to remember to call her Weasel. Arya rarely sees Gendry now that he's working over in the forge.

 

Arya doesn't want to learn the names of the people she works with because that makes it all the more painful when they die. Most of the people who work with her are older and are happy to leave her alone.

 

There are rumors that Tywin Lannister wants to restore Harrenhal to its former glory so that he can make it his new seat once the war is over. He wants the Wailing Tower made fit for habitation again so most of Arya's days are spent cleaning in addition the other duties that Weese gives her.

 

Arya doesn't fear the ghosts that are said to haunt Harrenhal and thinks living men are what she needs to be afraid of. She wonders from time to time what Tywin would do if she were to march up to him and reveal her true identity but doubts that she'd be able to get near him, and figures that he wouldn't believe her even if she somehow managed it.

 

Weese is nearly as scary as Gregor Clegane and Arya notices that he's even more observant than the Mountain and that he hurts people at the slightest provocation. He also has a vicious dog that attacks people whenever he commands.

 

It took him only three days to earn the place of honor in her nightly prayers. "Weese," she would whisper, first of all. "Dunsen, Chiswyck, Polliver, Raff the Sweetling. The Tickler and the Hound. Ser Gregor, Ser Amory, Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, King Joffrey, Queen Cersei." If she let herself forget even one of them, how would she ever find him again to kill him?

 

When they were on the road Arya thought of herself as a sheep and now that she's at Harrenhal, she thinks of herself as a mouse who is always trying to keep out of the way of stronger creatures. Sometimes she thinks of them all as mice since Harrenhal is the kind of place that can even make a man like the Mountain feel small.

 

People speak freely in front of Arya because they hardly notice her presence so she gets to hear all kinds of juicy gossip. She also gets updates on the war and has learned about Stannis and Renly joining the fighting. She hears that even Lannister men are questioning how long Joffrey will be able to hold the Iron Throne since he has no army and is said to be ruled by a dwarf, a eunuch, and a woman. She's also heard the rumors about Beric Dondarrion coming back to life after having been killed four times.

 

The Bloody Mummers arrive at Harrenhal and Weese advises Arya to stay away from them. He reminds her that this group of sellswords refer to themselves as the Brave Companions and says they'd likely hurt her if they heard her referring to them by their nickname. Their captain is Vargo Hoat and when Arya sees him, she wonders to herself just how many monsters Tywin Lannister has in his arsenal.

 

The Bloody Mummers are staying in the Widow's Tower so Arya doesn't have to worry about serving them. She's happy about this especially when fighting ends up breaking out between the Mummers and Lannister soldiers. Ser Harys Swyft ends up losing his squire in the fighting and two Mummers are later hanged on Tywin's orders. Hoat and Swyft are forced to kiss and makeup while Tywin watches.

 

The Mummers spread the word that Roose Bolton is currently occupying the ruby ford of the Trident and Arya soon learns that Robb is at Riverrun. She knows she's capable of finding the castle on her own, she just has to figure out how to get away from Harrenhal. When she thinks about seeing Robb again it makes her want to see her mother and all of her other siblings.

 

Arya learns that the Tower of Dread houses three dozens captives who were taken during a battle on the Green Fork of the Trident. Most of the captives have been given the freedom of the castle provided they pledge their word that they won't try to escape. Arya thinks to herself that they might have given their vow but this doesn't mean that they can't help her try to escape.

 

There are four Freys who are part of the group of captives but they're soon allowed to leave after two of their brothers show up at Harrenhal with a chest of gold. No one ransoms the northmen and there's one fat northmen who is always hanging out in the kitchens in hopes of getting extra food. Arya is sure that Sansa would be able to figure out who the fat lord is. Whenever Septa Mordane would talk about noble families and houses, Arya would typically drift off and wonder when the lesson would be over.

 

The only lord she's sure she'd recognize is Lord Cerwyn because he used to be a regular at Winterfell, but she hasn't been able to see him because he's been recovering from a wound. She's certain that if she could somehow get past his guards to see him that he'd be honor bound to help her. She thinks it's possible that Lord Cerwyn might even be willing to pay a few sellswords to escort her to Riverrun. One morning a few days or so later, Arya learns the news that Lord Cerwyn has died of his wounds. She feels that she was stupid to think he could have helped her when it was obvious that he couldn't even help himself.

 

Arya continues to clean and listen and hears all sorts of rumors about Tywin. Some people say that he's going to march on Highgarden since that would be unexpected. Others say he'll march on King's Landing because Stannis is the greatest threat. Another rumor is that he's going to marry Lysa Arryn in order to bring the Vale into the fold.

 

Tywin spends most of his days with his war council so Arya only catches a glimpse of him occasionally and always at a distance. He also spends a lot of time watching men train in the yard.

 

They said Lord Tywin loved gold most of all; he even shit gold, she heard one squire jest. The Lannister lord was strong-looking for an old man, with stiff golden whiskers and a bald head. There was something in his face that reminded Arya of her own father, even though they looked nothing alike. He has a lord's face, that's all, she told herself. She remembered hearing her lady mother tell Father to put on his lord's face and go deal with some matter. Father had laughed at that. She could not imagine Lord Tywin ever laughing at anything.

 

Ser Amory Lorch and his men show up one afternoon and Arya spots Rorge, Biter, and Jaqen H'ghar among the company. As they pass her Jaqen looks in her direction, but Arya doesn't think that he recognizes her. Arya thinks that she should have let the fire have all three of them as Gendry advised her to do.

 

Arya spends the rest of the day scrubbing and cleaning until she's exhausted. When she goes to bed that night she considers adding three new names to her list but is too tired to decide who deserves a spot. She's dreaming of wolves when she's suddenly woken by a hand clamping down over her mouth.

Jaqen removes his hand after he's sure that Arya won't scream and comments on how she's turned into a girl since the last time he saw her. Arya tells Jaqen that she should have let him burn and threatens to yell for Weese. She asks him what he's doing there and he tells her that 'a man pays his debts.' He says that he owes three and explains that Red God is due three lives because of her decision to save Rorge, Biter, and himself. He says Arya just has to say the names and he'll take care of the rest.

 

Arya thinks that Jaqen wants to help her and asks him to take her to Riverrun. Jaqen refuses and says that the three names are all she's getting from him so she'd better choose carefully. He kisses her hair and tells her not to take too long in deciding.

 

Arya thinks about all of the people she'd like to see dead and doesn't seem to trust that Jaqen will be able to kill somebody who's far away like Joffrey, or Cersei or anyone else in King's Landing. She considers Amory Lorch but isn't sure that she hates him as much as somebody like the Mountain.

 

Gregor Clegane and his men have just returned to Harrenhal and Arya is listening as Chiswyck tells a story about the time Clegane once raped some teenage girl after the girl's father dared to ask Clegane to keep his men from sexually harassing his daughter. Clegane's response was to have the girl brought before him so that he could rape her right in front of her father. Chiswyck thinks this story is hilarious and comments on how he laughed so hard at the time that he had ale coming out of his nose.

 

Clegane's men kill the girl's brother when he tries to defend her, and once Clegane is done with her his men take their turns in raping the girl. Chiswyck says that the girl stopped fighting by the time he started raping her and indicates he would have preferred to have her struggling more. Chiswyck says that the best part of the story is that once the men were finished assaulting the girl, Clegane demanded that the girl's father get change for the silver that he paid because he claims that she wasn't worth the full amount. The girl's father brought Clegane his change and thanked him for his patronage according to Chiswyck. All of the men laugh at Chiswyck's story while Arya silently watches.

 

When Arya returns to Weese and he realizes that she didn't ask the men if they wanted to have any of their clothes mended, he canes her until she has blood running down her thighs. She feels that thinking about Syrio's sayings helps keep most of the pain at bay.

 

Two days after Chiswyck tells his story, Arya whispers his name in Jaqen's ear. Chiswyck dies three days later after falling off of a wallwalk and breaking his neck. One woman wonders if he was drunk but a man responds that Chiswyck was no more drunk than usual. Some people are saying that it was Harren's ghost who flung Chiswyck to his death but Weese thinks that's a bunch of nonsense.

 

It wasn't Harren, Arya wanted to say, it was me. She had killed Chiswyck with a whisper, and she would kill two more before she was through. I'm the ghost in Harrenhal, she thought. And that night, there was one less name to hate.

 

[nodorothyparker]

I can never read this chapter or think about Arya and the three deaths Jaqen gives her without wondering how things would have gone if she had aimed higher with her choices.  Arya doesn't know if his promise covers distance and never thinks to ask.  She also oddly applies Ned's mantra that the person who passes the sentence swings the sword as her reasoning for not naming Lannisters and instead mostly wastes her picks on random terribles.

 

I love some of the story details we get through all the gossip.  We get confirmation that Tywin has indeed seen a copy of Stannis's letter and ordered it burned and not to be spoken of.  Another detail that becomes unsurprising by the time we get to FFC is that Harys Swyft is such a pain in the ass here that all the cooks are spitting in his food.  There's first mention of what's happened to Beric Dondarrion.  I also honestly don't know if I'd ever considered until reading the bit about the Lannister soldiers talking about Joffrey that the Iron Throne doesn't have its own standing army and thus is entirely dependent on the king's house and whoever's willing to back him.

 

Gregor Clegene remains the most awful to ever awful and we also get our first look at Vargo Hoat and the Bloody Mummers.

Edited February 18, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[benteen]

Hearing about the atrocities that Clegane commits always makes me glad that he died a slow and painful death.

 

At least it made more sense in the book that Arya didn't think to ask for Tywin to be killed than it did on the show.

[nodorothyparker]

Yeah, at least here we get her muddled thought process on it.  She doesn't trust Jaqen at all and doesn't really grasp the implications of his promise because she's upset he won't help her escape to Riverrun.  You get none of that with the show and Tywin is always right there.  Just pick the top three names off your list and boom, done.

Edited February 18, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[Avaleigh]

I too wondered why Arya didn't ask about the rules. And really, why couldn't Jaqen just be like the genie from Aladdin and give her the breakdown on whatever the rules are. 

 

If she doubts Jaqen's abilities you'd think the Mountain would be the first she'd name just to see. One of the reasons she gives for not initially naming the Mountain is because he isn't at Harrenhal. So then he comes back, she hears this very detailed story about what an asshole he and his men are, and her instinct is to shoot the rapist messenger rather than one of the dudes who has control over these guys. 

 

She takes one look at Vargo Hoat, knows off the bat this guy is a monster, and goes for the sick prick who has everyone laughing at his disgusting story. I'm just shaking my head. I wish Jaqen had asked her if she was sure. 

 

I thought the rumors swirling around Tywin were interesting. There isn't any truth to the idea that he wanted Harrenhal for himself, right? No way would Lysa have agreed to marry him but wouldn't that have been interesting. Heh, I'm just imagining what kind of stepdad he'd be to Sweetrobin. That kid thought he had it tough with Littlefinger. 

 

I wonder too what would have happened if he'd marched on Highgarden. 

 

Pia is still pretty. Sad how much is going to change by the third book. 

 

ETA:

 

Arya's thoughts about how Lord Cerwyn might help her seem shockingly naive considering everything that's happened so far. I at least appreciated that she was annoyed with herself for hoping that he would be able to help her when it was clear that he couldn't even help himself. I don't even think Sansa would have thought that Cerwyn would have given gold to same random, monstrous looking sellswords under the promise that they'd take this ten year old girl over to Riverrun. 

Edited February 18, 2016 by Avaleigh

[nodorothyparker]

I wondered where the rumors about Tywin came from too.  I don't think we ever get any confirmation or even discussion that there's anything to them.  I could see wanting Harrenhal if you're say Janos Slynt or Littlefinger because to someone low on the totem pole it is rather imposing and it's well situated to make a play to control the Riverlands if you can dislodge the Tullys, as we'll see.  But it's also a half-melted ruin smack in the middle of the Riverlands, which as we also see is the first thing to be set on fire every time these people have a war.  The lord of Casterly Rock really doesn't need it.

 

I was also struck by how unrealistic Arya is here thinking Cerwyn is going to be able to do anything for her here "for honor."  Um, he's a prisoner and not a well one at that.  It's a nice touch though that there's other Northmen about and she can't remember who any of them are or recognize them by their sigils because she never bothered to pay attention when she and Sansa were supposed to be having lessons.

 

Pia makes sad too knowing how beaten down she is by FFC.

[Avaleigh]

If she'd named Joffrey would Jaqen have had to run to King's Landing before getting the other two names?

 

Imagine if other characters in the story like Robb or Tyrion were aware of Arya having this opportunity? I'm just thinking of Varys during a meeting of the small council saying that one of his little birds informed him that Arya Stark has a Faceless Man who is willing to kill three people for her. 

[SeanC]

I thought the rumors swirling around Tywin were interesting. There isn't any truth to the idea that he wanted Harrenhal for himself, right? 

I can't imagine.  Tywin's motto is Lannister uber alles, there's no way he would ever consider taking anything other than the Rock as his seat (maybe the Red Keep, if he was king, but even little Prince Tommen uses "Casterly Rock!" as his battle cry earlier in the book, which tells you Cersei's view of things).

Edited February 18, 2016 by SeanC

[benteen]

I can get her not asking about the rules initially because she is still a kid (though one forced to grow up fast) and it was like getting a Christmas present.  Not going after Clegane at least was a mistake, especially once Jaqen killed his buddy.  Killing Chiswyck was an understandable emotional decision given how upset and disgusted that story must have made her.

 

Getting rid of Weese was something she had to do for her own safety.  No problem there.

 

I guess Jaqen not telling her the rules of her wishes is just him being one of those assholes who believes you have to figure out every little thing by yourself.  He'd consider it teaching her a lesson and would want her to think it out for herself.  It's a dick move for sure but I imagine that is his mindset.

 

Weese had to be taken off the list but could you imagine if Jaqen had been successful in killing Tywin and Clegane?  Talk about altering everything.  You would have had King Stannis at King's Landing and King Robb with that little shit Balon still lurking around.

Edited February 18, 2016 by benteen

[Avaleigh]

I'm not at all convinced that Syrio is Jaqen but if he is, he kind of sucks for not breaking it down more for Arya since he was supposed to be her teacher.

 

Regarding Arya's opportunity--

 

It got me thinking about who the top three choices would be for each character at this stage of the game. Littlefinger for example. I feel like Tyrion and Varys have to be up there. Ned would have been up there too once upon a time. 

 

Sansa I'd guess Joffrey and Cersei and maybe Ilyn Payne? 

 

Cersei...she'd have the most trouble deciding at this point. By the time she gets to AFFC though her list is pretty straightforward. 

 

Theon--that's easy. Balon, Asha, and Euron. 

 

It's funny that aren't any VIPs in Westeros who would think to choose Dany outside of dead Robert. 

[nodorothyparker]

Dany's so far off of whatever passes for pseudo medieval radar, why would any of them think to pick her?  They dismiss most of the reports about her because she hasn't moved to go anywhere in forever.  Especially when they're all so busy double crossing and killing the far more immediate threats of each other.

[Lady S.]

She also oddly applies Ned's mantra that the person who passes the sentence swings the sword as her reasoning for not naming Lannisters and instead mostly wastes her picks on random terribles.

I don't think that had to do with not naming Lannisters specifically, it had to do with giving Jaqen any names at all because Starks never use executioners. That's why she just decides to kill people herself once Jaqen's left her. I wouldn't say her brand of justice was exactly what Ned was going for, but he never actually bothered to explain these indelicate matters to the girls, so this is a traumatized child's understanding of an overheard remark.

 

I too wondered why Arya didn't ask about the rules. And really, why couldn't Jaqen just be like the genie from Aladdin and give her the breakdown 

If she doubts Jaqen's abilities you'd think the Mountain would be the first she'd name just to see. One of the reasons she gives for not initially naming the Mountain is because he isn't at Harrenhal. So then he comes back, she hears this very detailed story about what an asshole he and his men are, and her instinct is to shoot the rapist messenger rather than one of the dudes who has control over these guys. 

I would think the opposite. If he failed to kill the Mountain but wasn't immediately killed for it, he could point the finger at her or be tortured into giving her up. Or he could just be lying about this strange murder genie deal, it's not just his abilities she had reason to doubt. I think Chiswyck was a test case, someone who deserved to die, but wasn't important enough for anyone to ask questions about his murder. She'd been giving Jaqen's offer careful thought for days, so I don't think picking Chiswyck was done on impulse. I think Jaqen being an asshole of a murder genie is just another way ASOIAF has to be darker and more difficult than any Disney tropes, but it's another reason I think the Syrio/Jaqen theory is bad.

 

I too was amused by all the rumors swirling around, especially the idea of Tywin marrying Lysa, and Harys Swyft having to kiss Vargo Hoat was priceless. But what I was struck by with Tywin was Arya being eerily reminded of Ned. Cat reminding him to put on his lord's face and Ned laughing was a cute memory, but it's weird that two such different men could be compared at all, right? It made me think of Jaime thinking of Ned's judgement in the throne room or Theon thinking Ned was cold and distant or Catelyn calling Ned a "solemn stranger" when thinking of their wedding day. If Ned only lightened up only with his loved ones and had wore a mask at all similar to Tywin's usual expressions, then that sort of puts some things in perspective.

[SeanC]

Theon--that's easy. Balon, Asha, and Euron.

I don't think Theon would ever do that.  He's driven by a desire for his family's approval.

[Avaleigh]

Catelyn III

 

Catelyn and the northmen who are accompanying her are the first to arrive at the meeting place. She thinks about how the northmen think she's out of her mind to want to attend this meeting and how Wendel Manderly told her that Robb wouldn't want her to put herself at risk in this way especially since it isn't their fight.

 

She thinks about the last time Storm's End was under siege and how Ned came to lift it without having to resort to bloodshed. She hopes that she'll be able to be victorious the way Ned was and knows that it's for the ultimate good of the realm that the Baratheon brothers make peace with each other.

 

The songs say that it took seven tries for the first Storm King to build a castle that was able to withstand the heavy storms. Some versions say that the castle was built with help from the Children of the Forest and others say that it was with the help of the child who would go on to become Bran the Builder.

 

Stannis is the next to arrive and Catelyn knows that Renly has waited deliberately so that Stannis will have to wait on his arrival and not the other way around. Stannis is wearing his crown and he has a new standard that features a crowned stag and a heart surrounded by fire.

 

Stannis greets Catelyn cooly and she responds by greeting him as a lord rather than a king. He clenches his teeth and tells her he didn't expect her to be there. He adds that he was sorry to hear about Ned's death even though Ned wasn't a friend of his. Catelyn replies that Ned was never his enemy and mentions how it was Ned who broke the siege on Storm's End. Stannis feels that Ned broke the siege for love of Robert as opposed to him but admits that Ned did his duty. Stannis says that he's been just as dutiful as Ned and says that he should have been made Robert's Hand.

 

Catelyn tells Stannis that Ned never wanted to be Hand but Stannnis seems unmoved and replies that Ned still took the position that should have belonged to him. Stannis isn't over not being chosen as Robert's Hand but he still vows that Catelyn will have justice for Ned's murder.

 

Catelyn says that she's more interested in getting her daughters back and lets Stannis know that Renly too has promised her justice for Ned's murder. Stannis tells her that when he takes King's Landing, she'll get her daughters back. He makes no promise that they'll be sent back alive.

 

She asks Stannis when he plans on going to King's Landing. Stannis comments on her frankness and admits that he needs Renly's men if he's going to hope to take the capital. Catelyn attempts to get into the possible benefits that could be realized if the Baratheons brothers were to stop feuding, but Stannis cuts her off and she soon sees that there's no way this guy is going to bend.

 

Stannis asks about where House Stark stands and Catelyn tells Stannis that Robb is the King in the North but he's willing to be friends with everyone. Stannis responds by saying kings have only subjects and enemies. Renly arrives at this moment and comments that kings have brothers too.

 

Stannis greets Renly as a lord and Renly corrects him and says that he's King Renly. He asks Stannis if it's really him and says that he wasn't sure because of the new standard his brother is sporting. Melisandre speaks and explains that Stannis has taken the fiery heart of the Lord of Light for his sigil. Renly seems amused by this and comments that it's probably for the best that Stannis has a new sigil if only to make the battle between them less confusing.

 

Catelyn interjects and says she hopes there doesn't have to be a battle. She says they all have a common enemy who wants them to be destroyed. Stannis looks at her coldly and says that anyone who denies that the Iron Throne belongs to him is his enemy. Renly claims that all of the realm denies that Stannis is the rightful king and insists that no one wants him. Stannis clenches his jaw some more and says that he wished he'd kept his word when he swore that he wouldn't treat with Renly while Renly still wears his false crown.

 

Catelyn tries to emphasize the seriousness of the situation with the Lannisters and points out only her son's side is fighting to make things right. Renly shrugs his shoulders at this and says that Robb may have won a few battles but he, Renly, will win the war.

 

Stannis asks Renly to make his proposals if he has any so Renly asks Stannis to bend the knee to him and swear his allegiance. Stannis replies that he'll never give Renly his allegiance and Renly asks why Stannis was capable of serving Robert but not him. Stannis explains again that Robert was older and that Renly is younger and an usurper and traitor besides. Renly shrugs his shoulders and says that the Targaryens called Robert the usurper and Robert seemed perfectly fine in dealing with any shame that came along with that.

 

Catelyn says that if it were up to her she'd knock the two brothers' heads together and lock them in a room until they remember the fact that they're brothers. Stannis frowns at Catelyn and tells her that Robb's day will come since he's a traitor just like Renly.

 

Catelyn tells Stannis that he has a lot of nerve talking about birth order when he has to disregard both Joffrey and Tommen in order to make his claim. Renly informs Stannis that Catelyn never saw his letter so Stannis breaks the news that Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen are all products of incest. Catelyn is shocked and wonders if Cersei would really be crazy enough to do something like that.

 

Renly says that if the story is true then Stannis would indeed be Robert's heir. Stannis asks if Renly is calling him a liar and Renly asks Stannis if he can prove what he's saying about the Baratheon children being bastards. Catelyn asks Stannis why he kept silent about this info if he knew it to be true. Stannis says that he brought his suspicions to Jon Arryn and explains that he didn't go to his brother because he knew that Robert wouldn't believe it coming from him. 

 

Renly is unimpressed that the one piece of evidence Stannis seems to have is a dead man and Stannis tells his brother that it's obvious Cersei had Jon Arryn killed to protect her secret from being exposed.

 

Catelyn remembers Lysa writing to her claiming that Cersei was the one who killed Jon Arryn only to change her story later and accuse Tyrion of the crime.

 

Renly basically says that Jon Arryn's murder and the incest are more like incidental details as far as he's concerned. He admits that Stannis may very well have the stronger claim but says the bottom line is that Stannis doesn't have enough men.

 

Renly's hand slid inside his cloak. Stannis saw, and reached at once for the hilt of his sword, but before he could draw steel his brother produced . . . a peach. "Would you like one, brother?" Renly asked, smiling. "From Highgarden. You've never tasted anything so sweet, I promise you." He took a bite. juice ran from the corner of his mouth.

 

Stannis is furious and says that he isn't there to eat fruit. Catelyn jumps in and reminds them that they're supposed to be there to work out some kind of an alliance.

 

"A man should never refuse to taste a peach," Renly said as he tossed the stone away. "He may never get the chance again. Life is short, Stannis. Remember what the Starks say. Winter is coming." He wiped his mouth with the back of his hand.

 

Stannis says that he didn't come there to be threatened and Renly snaps at his brother that he isn't trying to threatening him. He offers Stannis Storm's End but Stannis immediately argues that the castle isn't Renly's to give.

 

Renly sighs and asks Brienne what he's supposed to do with a brother who rejects everything that he tries to offer him. He complains about Stannis being a no-show for his wedding and Stannis replies that the wedding was a complete farce. He mentions how Renly had first been plotting how to get Margaery in bed with Robert. Renly says that's all in the past and comments on how Stannis should be pleased that Margaery came to him a maid. Stannis snaps that Margaery is likely to die a maid in Renly's bed. Renly disagrees and thinks that he'll have Margaery pregnant within the year.

 

Renly brings up the fact that Stannis doesn't have any sons and insults Selyse and Shireen. Stannis roars that he won't be mocked and takes his sword out of its scabbard. Brienne steps in between the brothers and shouts for Stannis to put up his steel.

 

Catelyn thinks to herself that somewhere in King's Landing Cersei Lannister is laughing her ass off.

 

Stannis says that he doesn't want to sully his new sword with the blood of a brother so he's going to give Renly one night to think everything over. He says that Renly can have Storm's End and his old seat on the council. He even agrees to name Renly his heir until he has a son of his own. If Renly can't accept these terms, Stannis vows that he will destroy him.

 

Renly laughs, tells Stannis that his sword is pretty, and repeats that he has the numbers with the Tyrells and their bannermen backing him. Stannis says that they'll see and puts his sword back into its scabbard. Catelyn thinks that the world seems a little less bright now that Stannis has put his pretty sword away.

 

Renly tells Stannis that he hopes his new god is a merciful one. Melisandre lingers for a moment and tells Renly that he should look to his own sins.

 

Renly really likes Stannis's new sword and comments that Loras can give it to him as a gift after the battle. He claims that it grieves him that it should come to this but Catelyn isn't buying it and tells Renly that he has a funny way of showing his grief.

 

Renly asks Catelyn if she thinks it's true about the incest and Catelyn brings up the fact that if it is true that Stannis would definitely have the stronger claim. Renly thinks that primogeniture is bullshit and thinks that the best son for the job is the one who should be chosen. He starts to list off all of his attributes and why it makes the most sense for him to be king and Catelyn calls him out on the fact that he won't exactly be a humble king. Renly tells Catelyn that even a king has to be allowed to have some flaws.

 

Catelyn suddenly feels tired and realizes that she's been wasting her time. In spite of her best efforts, she sees that her son is going to be fighting the Lannisters alone. She thinks that she's made a poor envoy and thinks that she needs to get back to doing something she's good at like mourning.

 

Catelyn thinks about how similar Robert and Renly are in some ways but that Robert had the friendship and support of a man like Ned who could convince him to use caution when necessary. It's due to his lack of caution that Renly is currently in the position where he has to go to battle soon before he and his men end up running out of food.

 

Renly tells his lords and knights that Stannis hasn't changed and is hellbent on having blood, so he's feeling inclined to give it to him. Mathis Rowan doesn't see the need to battle Stannis. He suggests they let Stannis sit cold and hungry while they work on taking King's Landing. Renly doesn't like the idea of men saying that he fears facing Stannis but Rowan argues that only fools would come to that conclusion.

 

Renly puts it to the others and asks what they think. Randyll Tarly wants to nip the Stannis problem in the bud. He says that Renly's strength will diminish if he takes on the Lannisters now and who knows how much stronger Stannis might be if they wait to deal with her further down the line. The others seem to agree with Tarly and Renly seems pleased with this.

 

Catelyn listens and thinks to herself that she's failed. She says if Renly is set on fighting then her part in all of this is done. She asks for Renly's leave to return to Riverrun but he replies that she may not have it. Renly wants Catelyn to stay and watch the battle so that she can tell Robb how Renly deals with men who rebel.

 

Renly starts giving the men their assignments and a bunch of guys volunteer to lead the van. Tarly seems to think that the honor should be given to him but Renly ends up choosing Loras and says that the honor should be given to the greatest knight. Loras bows before Renly and accepts. He asks for a knight to ride beside him so that the Tyrell rose and Baratheon stag can ride into battle together. Renly chooses Brienne and Brienne initially protests because she wants to be next to Renly in battle. Once she sees that this isn't going to happen she begs to be allowed to arm Renly before the battle. Renly agrees and at least one person laughs over how desperate she sounds. Catelyn feels sorry for Brienne and thinks it's obvious that she's in love with Renly. 

 

Renly asks everyone to leave and says that even kings need to rest before battle. Catelyn asks Renly for permission to go and pray in the local sept. Renly agrees and provides her with an escort that will make sure to bring her back in time for the battle.

 

Catelyn tells Renly that he could probably do with a bit of praying himself and tells him that he should be praying for wisdom. Renly laughs at this and asks Loras to help him stay and pray.

 

Ser Robar Royce is escorting Catelyn to the sept and she asks him why he's fighting for Renly when he's from the Vale. Ser Robar explains that as a second son he has to find his glory where he can and figured Renly was the best bet. He says he's grown tired of appearing in tourneys. Catelyn looks at Robar and guesses that he's about twenty one. She thinks that Robb at fifteen is already smarter than Ser Robar.

 

When Catelyn returns to her section of the camp, word has already spread that there is to be a battle at dawn. One of the men asks Catelyn if they're expected to fight or flee and Catelyn answers that they should pray.