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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

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Glory

By Glory
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caracas1914

caracas1914

(edited)
Wasn't Lima Rachel's future?  Didn't RM say he saw Finn staying in Ohio and Rachel being unfulfilled with fame and eventually coming back to join him?   That gave me the impression RIB never thought it was Rachel's destiny to be a shining star on Broadway.

 

 

I'm not inside Ryan Murphy's head (Praise the lord) but the impression I got from what he said about  the last scene (aka the Finchel reunion) was a triumphant and successful Rachel choosing to go back to Lima and Finn.  "Home" being not  necessarily the podunk town perse, but the relationship  with  her one true love and soul mate.

 

The show has always telegraphed that Rachel was destined for greatness, what it did in clumsy measures was IMO also  try to show that that in and of itself wasn't enough for Rachel.   Of course if that scene had happened, I could imagine Rachel flying off to do HBO  mini series and movie shoots while Finn stayed in Lima taking care of their adopted Eurasian babies. 

 

With Finn's (and Corys) death, that wasn't possible anymore.  Rachel had nothing anchoring her to Lima.

Edited by caracas1914
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shantown
shantown

If Jesse St. James shows up at the very end to whisk Rachel away I will forgive the majority of this awful season.

ComfySweater
ComfySweater

Date Sam. It's what everybody else does when they aren't with their soul mate.

Cranberry
Cranberry

You guys argue about the weirdest things.

tom87

tom87

(edited)

Wasn't Lima Rachel's future?  Didn't RM say he saw Finn staying in Ohio and Rachel being unfulfilled with fame and eventually coming back to join him?   That gave me the impression RIB never thought it was Rachel's destiny to be a shining star on Broadway.

I don't remember him saying she would be unfulfilled with fame.

 

Or what caracus1914 said.

 

I hated the thought of Rachel giving up her work.  How horrible would it be to say no Rachel you can't have a career and love.  

 

My head canon was going to be that she still went off to do a movie  or small concert tours every once in awhile  and they summered in the Hamptons.

Edited by tom87
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fakeempress

fakeempress

When I first read about Ryan Murphy's "I'm home" end plan for Rachel, I thought he just meant that she was reuniting with Finn and her relationship with him was the "home" she was missing, in the pursuit of fame and fortune it seems, and that it's not like Finn was chained to Lima. I thought it was only in reference to their "soulmate" love. That was old me being too optimistic and willing to give the benefit of the doubt. 

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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

 

I hated the thought of Rachel giving up her work.  How horrible would it be to say no Rachel you can't have a career and love.  

 

My head canon was going to be that she still went off to do a movie  or small concert tours every once in awhile  and they summered in the Hamptons.

I love that idea.

As much as I would've hated that idea with Finn I would've kind of got it. Lea and Cory played it like they thought the other hung the moon and the sun. But if she settles in Lima with Sam, UGH, is all I have to say.

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caracas1914

caracas1914

(edited)

Of all the insipid ideas to reboot 3.0 Noobs in an abbreviated season who no one gives a fuck about to sway in the background. And yet be the reasons for an inevitable Sectionals or Regional "triumph".

Other than Kitty, they will drag Unique in for a one shot deal for the transgender SL for Beistie (pulled out of their asses) and they will probably not bring back Marley/Jarley/Ryder in any significant manner before the final.

So it begs the issue; if the 2.0 Noobs were such a flop that they booted them off in the most humiliating fashion, why bring on 3.0 Noobs with even less development? One of the Noobs has even admitted this is his first acting job ever, literally.

Edited by caracas1914
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fakeempress

fakeempress

There's a picture on Instagram of the three new guys. My first thought was Blaine and Sam mark 2 and they've made Unique a white man. ( Does my reaction to that last one go without saying?)

Can I post the picture here?

You can, there is the attach image icon on the reply formatting bar. 

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tom87

tom87

Of all the insipid ideas to reboot 3.0 Noobs in an abbreviated season who no one gives a fuck about to sway in the background. And yet be the reasons for an inevitable Sectionals or Regional "triumph".

Other than Kitty, they will drag Unique in for a one shot deal for the transgender SL for Beistie (pulled out of their asses) and they will probably not bring back Marley/Jarley/Ryder in any significant manner before the final.

So it begs the issue; if the 2.0 Noobs were such a flop that they booted them off in the most humiliating fashion, why bring on 3.0 Noobs with even less development? One of the Noobs has even admitted this is his first acting job ever, literally.

becasue Rachel and Kurt have to rebuild the club and these noobs are nothing more than glorified extras who get to sing a little bit.

 

Worse to me is the  VA noob who is going to have 2 solos in episode 4.  Why????

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caracas1914

caracas1914

Worse to me is the  VA noob who is going to have 2 solos in episode 4.  Why????

 

 

Apparently he's a member of some British boy band , so it's the remnants of Ryan's Murphy's obsession with "big" guest stars.  The fact that this singer is relatively unknown here in the States just gives it an even more pathetically  ironic tinge. 

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tom87

tom87

It's not like they'll let Matt Morrison sing instead. But they'll retcon the Warblers having a coach so that Blaine will.

Meh Blaine singing as a Warbler but with the steroid cheating thing I can at least understand a recon of the Warblers needing an "adult" now. 

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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

Apparently he's a member of some British boy band , so it's the remnants of Ryan's Murphy's obsession with "big" guest stars.  The fact that this singer is relatively unknown here in the States just gives it an even more pathetically  ironic tinge.

He's pretty much unknown this side of the Atlantic too! I vaguely know who The Wanted were, and I kind of know who he is because he dated a relatively famous actress.

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Pink ranger

Pink ranger

Well Blane only sings one song with the Warblers I believe, the one in the promo, so it's not a exactly a massive platform for him. I hope that Matt sings good songs when it fits his story. Besides dude is performing two concerts at carnegie hall this weekend, not too shabby.

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fakeempress

fakeempress

(edited)

Meh Blaine singing as a Warbler but with the steroid cheating thing I can at least understand a recon of the Warblers needing an "adult" now. 

Nothing's preventing them to retcon VA with a singing coach too, it wouldn't be a retcon even, didn't Idina get to sing when she was VA coach.

Edited by fakeempress
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caracas1914

caracas1914

(edited)

It's weird how the show uses Matt Morrison's Will..  They won't let him go and yet they marginalize him time and time again.    Coaching Vocal Adrenaline takes him literally out of the main narrative for the first time ever, which is insane since they wouldn't let him do anything for development  so  what was the point of retaining him?  Will  got a huge sendoff/tribute in the "100" celebration.   Oh well, Matt will soon to be free of making cameo appearances every other episdoe.

Edited by caracas1914
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tom87

tom87

Nothing's preventing them to retcon VA with a singing coach too, it wouldn't be a retcon even, didn't Idina get to sing when she was VA coach.

I was only addressing  why the Warblers would have a coach now not why who sings what.

 

No reason Will couldn't sing with VA. 

It's weird how the show uses Matt Morrison's Will..  They won't let him go and yet they marginalize him time and time again.    Coaching Vocal Adrenaline takes him literally out of the main narrative for the first time ever, which is insane since they wouldn't let him do anything for development  so  what was the point of retaining him?  Will  got a huge sendoff/tribute in the "100" celebration.   Oh well, Matt will soon to be free of making cameo appearances every other episdoe.

 

Yeah.  I still would have preferred  Will revived the glee club and asking the old kids to come back for a huge benefit or something.  

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caracas1914

caracas1914

(edited)

It points out that Ryan Murphy feels the need of someone propping the Choir School kids, in Seasons 1-3 it was Will, in Season 4 it was Will transitioning to Finn, and then Season 5 it was Will again.   All the time Sue being the adversary.  Now that they have Rachel and Kurt helming ND in Season 6 (with Sue now their arch enemy) and the Will character is superfluous to them so he's exiled to Carmel High. 

 

The positive for Matt Morrison is he's getting a hefty paycheck for all this.

 

To pay someone (rumored to be close to 100K per episode) for such a small role has to be one of the cushiest  jobs on TV.

Edited by caracas1914
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Pink ranger

Pink ranger

Matt has been in the recording studio though. The timing works out for either the 5th or 6th episode. He is in more scenes than I expected allready before the latest promo. I had not idea about that scene with rachel in Wills old office so hopefully he has been ninja filming often.

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tom87

tom87

So  the guy we plays the new noob Spencer was recording today.  I knew it is necessary I guess to have the new noobs sing but really this better be for episode 10  and episode 10 better be the competition episode  to get it over with.

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Anna Yolei

Anna Yolei

The double wedding is ridiculous in so many ways. Even if they had to be married, do it at the end of the series as in the future when the couples are older and hopefully somewhat wiser. The teenage marriage is one of Ryan's fixations, dating back to Popular, and making it a double gay wedding is just one of the planned headline-grabbing attempts (as with the trans story) to pat himself on the back how progressive and everything Glee has been.

At least on Popular, there was some actual struggle with the couple in question. The only person that would rent them a room was the Sue Sylvester prototype teacher and the other big issue of the girl not wanting to jump into sex didn't magically dissappear.

But even when Fincher were contemplating getting hitched, everyone, including and especially Kurt and Santana and Burt, we're down their necks saying they were too young, and they didn't have the type of problems Klaine have had.

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tom87

tom87

At least on Popular, there was some actual struggle with the couple in question. The only person that would rent them a room was the Sue Sylvester prototype teacher and the other big issue of the girl not wanting to jump into sex didn't magically dissappear.

But even when Fincher were contemplating getting hitched, everyone, including and especially Kurt and Santana and Burt, we're down their necks saying they were too young, and they didn't have the type of problems Klaine have had.

Santana actually said she supported Rachel ruining her life by marrying Finn. :)    Kurt at least acquiesced when Rachel point  blank asked him what he would do if Blaine had ask him to marry him.

 

Burt is the one who should be ashamed. 

 

Maybe that is why Quinn isn't at the wedding she was hard core against teen/young marriage. :)

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fakeempress

fakeempress

(edited)

Glee has had three - three!-  teenage/barely out of teenage years couples attempt marriage, and two will go through it. I don't remember if marriage was also a subject for Puck/Quinn in S.Three in the Beth storyline. Even with just the three, it's still a ridiculous number for couples who are not going to be stuck in a small town with nothing to do. 

Edited by fakeempress
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Myrna123

Myrna123

Just saw where Gina Gershon will play Blaine's mom.  Kind of explains why Blaine's side of the family seems okay with the teen marriage.  If the actors' ages are anywhere close to the characters' ages, Mrs. Anderson was 15 when she had Blaine's brother (assuming Blaine & his brother have the same mom, of course).

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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

Probably because they know Kurt.

The old noobs know all four and they're not there, even Kitty.

Have to give Glee its credit it does cast some great moms. I mean Charlotte Ross, Katey Segal, Romy Rosemount, Aisha Tyler and Tamlyn Tomita are amazing, not a storyline between them but great casting!

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caracas1914

caracas1914

(edited)
The old noobs know all four and they're not there, even Kitty.

 

There are spoiler photos from set that Kitty attends the wedding...

 

Seems Kitty is the only Noob making regular appearances throughout the season, just had a spoiler instagram from Anders she was recording the other day/night.

Edited by caracas1914
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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

(edited)

True, but I don't think the writers care about them. IMO, trying to find logic on this show only leads to headaches.

You forgot Debra Monk. I thought she was hilarious.

I forgot Gina Hecht and Gloria Estefan too. Debra Monk and Gina Hecht didn't even get character names!

There are spoiler photos from set that Kitty attends the wedding...

Seems Kitty is the only Noob making regular appearances throughout the season, just had a spoiler instagram from Anders she was recording the other day/night.

Because RM is such a child he blames them for the noobs not being successful not his dreadful writing. If they had a decent storyline between them there's no reason it wouldn't have worked.

I suspect Lea Michele is the reason Becca Tobin is back. That and their obsession with pairing everyone up does suggest Artie/Kityy will be revived. (Boke)

Edited by jtrattray
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camussie

camussie

(edited)
If they had a decent storyline between them there's no reason it wouldn't have worked.

 

 

There is every reason it wouldn't have worked as that ship sailed about two seasons before they were even cast.  Unless RM could have gone back in time and not degraded Will's role so much so that the Glee club remained a viable narrative while the originals graduated out there was simply no way any newbies were going to work.  Tweaking their stories may have made them somewhat more interesting but the split narrative was doomed to fail from the get go. To be fair I don't think a split narrative would work on even the best written high school shows which is why most aren't dumb enough to attempt it.  They choose a direction and stick to it.

 

As for RM seems to me in the press, at least, he scapegoats Cory's passing for his failures more than the newbies themselves.  I suspect most aren't there because of a combination of the newbies 2.0 being even cheaper and Blake & Melissa both moving onto greener pastures.  After all Blake is the lead in Richard Linklater's new film which is a huge step up from Glee and Melissa was in one of the best reviewed movies of the year and her next movie stars Al Pacino and Jennifer Garner.  

 

As for why Kitty is back, I suspect it is both because she and Lea Michele have seemed to become good friends and so they can use her as  sort of an avatar for all of the newbies 1.0

Edited by camussie
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caracas1914

caracas1914

(edited)

Regardless of why they didn't work, it's  painfully clear Ryan Murphy for the most part is washing his hands of the great Noob experiment of Season 4.

 

Latest promo:

http://fyeahgleeclub.tumblr.com/

 

The latest promos show Kurt, Rachel, Unholy Trinity, Blaine, Mercedes, and Will and Sue.  Hell it even shows Puck!  Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that RIB is acting like the Original  Noobs don't exist anymore.

Edited by caracas1914
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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

(edited)

Naya just posted its her last day on the Glee set, so no big ending that some were expecting with everyone there. They set her off as the housewife to a dumb witted racist moron. Sucky ending for a great character.

Edited by jtrattray
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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

Wow. This show can't get anything right. So the last time the whole cast will be together will be the shitty noob propping two parter?

100/New Directions is the only time this show has got an ending right. Every season has ended either on a weird note (2/4/5) or just plain wrong. I mean season 3 should've been a big group number for the last time, but there isn't even one big group number in the whole episode.

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camussie

camussie

(edited)

I wonder if Naya (and by extension Heather) not being on  past 608/9 has to do with the tensions from the set last year, at least in part.  Given that she was abruptly written out of 519/20 it was probably complicated to have her back at all.  I imagine she had to swallow a lot of crow and there were some very clear guidelines on what behavior was acceptable and what wasn't.  I think the main reason she is back is in order to do not only a gay wedding (since those are more commonplace now) but a double gay wedding so RM can try and make some sort of statement/splash.  

 

Given what we know it seems that the following stories are left to be wrapped up

  • Rachel's journey including her whatever with Sam including how Mercedes feels about it
  • Where Kurt/Blaine end up
  • What school Will ends up at
  • Artie and Tina's future (not as a couple but rather their professional futures)

 

You know which of those interests me the most?  Artie's future.  Much like his story was the only one I really cared about in NY.  

Edited by camussie
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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

I

[*]Artie and Tina's future (not as a couple but rather their professional futures

 

You know which of those interests me the most?  Artie's future.

I'm still waiting to find out how Artie felt about Tina dumping him for a dancer in season 2 so I wouldn't hold your breath.

Tina seems to be back to support Rachel (ugh) and get back with Mike. Which as a Tike shipper I love, but as a general part of the show with no-one dating anyone they met outside high school sucks.

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truthaboutluv

truthaboutluv

I'm still waiting to find out how Artie felt about Tina dumping him for a dancer in season 2 so I wouldn't hold your breath.

 

 

I thought we did know. He got dumped and it sucked. There were a few meaningful glances by him at Tina and Mike during some big song numbers that showed he was still bummed by it but eventually he got over it and moved on with Brittany. 

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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

I thought we did know. He got dumped and it sucked. There were a few meaningful glances by him at Tina and Mike during some big song numbers that showed he was still bummed by it but eventually he got over it and moved on with Brittany.

I meant that in Dream On he wants to be a dancer, five episodes later his girlfriend has dumped him for the best dancer at their school and that's never touched upon. Artie seems to think it's because Mike's football player and he's not. I thought it was because Artie's a douchebag and Mike's generally not.

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camussie

camussie

(edited)

Mike, Artie, Tina, etc were all supporting players so I didn't expect them to delve deeper into how Artie felt than they did.  Really all I ever expect for supporting players on a show is a few focused episodes over the course of several seasons, a cursory look at their feelings on big life changes, and something at the end that tells me in general terms what their future is.    That is why I want to know what Artie's and Tina's future while I also believe it shouldn't be a big focus.

 

This goes down to what I always say, Glee was never a true ensemble show even if some wanted it to be.  It always had leads and supporting players.  Characters like Artie, Tina, Mike, Puck, Mercedes were always supporting and to that end I feel like they got the right amount of focus even as I thought some of the plot/character development in that focus was terrible (as it was for the leads).  

 

The problem is that Glee often took characters who should have remained supporting (Blaine, Sam, Brittany, Karofsky) and turned them into more of leads.  It also kept too much focus on Quinn, to the detriment of hers, Rachel's, and Finn's characterization, after she served a storyline purpose in season 1.  I feel trying to keep her more of a lead just didn't work for any of the characters especially Quinn.

 

Meanwhile, Will, a character who should have remained a lead, was side-lined and it appears is again this season.

Edited by camussie
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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

I think Quinn's the most fabulous character to ever come out of Glee. Helps she was played by the best actress on the show. I think they wanted a convenient way to write her out so gave her the Ivy League out. So it looks like she's a verbal punch bag for her parents, Finn, Rachel, Terri, Sue, Santana and Brittany, then rises up, quite literally in the end, and swans of to Yale.

Actually they did the same thing to Tina. Glee club punchbag, especially in season four, then she swans of to an Ivy League college.

Mike, Artie, Tina, etc were all supporting players so I didn't expect them to delve deeper into how Artie felt than they did.  Really all I ever expect for supporting players on a show is a few focused episodes over the course of several seasons, a cursory look at their feelings on big life changes, and something at the end that tells me in general terms what their future is.    That is why I want to know what Artie's and Tina's future while I also believe it shouldn't be a big focus.

The supporting players on glee never even got this.

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