Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[Sakura12]

The time periods they are visiting sound promising. Old Hollywood, Victorian London with vampires and Vikings. 

I just hope they tone down the Legends being complete morons. I won't hold my breath since from interviews I've read they think that's what the audience likes about the show. They seem to forget that their screw up for the last two season usually came from their hearts being in the right place. The Legends are not stupid people, they just don't know how to handle time travel that's why they screwed it up.  Instead the writers decided to double down on making them too stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time.

I'm glad that Sara and Amaya were spared the stupid stick for these last 2 episodes, I hope that continues. I'm just afraid it won't. They already downgraded Sara's skills so her new love interest can be her equal. 

[kismet]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

The time periods they are visiting sound promising. Old Hollywood, Victorian London with vampires and Vikings. 

I just hope they tone down the Legends being complete morons. I won't hold my breath since from interviews I've read they think that's what the audience likes about the show. They seem to forget that their screw up for the last two season usually came from their hearts being in the right place. The Legends are not stupid people, they just don't know how to handle time travel that's why they screwed it up.  Instead the writers decided to double down on making them too stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time.

I'm glad that Sara and Amaya were spared the stupid stick for these last 2 episodes, I hope that continues. I'm just afraid it won't. They already downgraded Sara's skills so her new love interest can be her equal. 

LoT seems to like wading in the Pop Culture waters, so it makes perfect sense that Old Hollywood, Vampires (old London) & Vikings are where they are heading. They already covered some of the usual time hops last season. I'm looking forward to these choices. :)

I too hope the complete morons, stupid stick baton passing ends soon. Hopefully some people on the writers staff are more adept at gauging audiences and adjusting tone. The problem is that they film so far in advance, that often they can't re-calibrate before the damage is done. It's like Oliver's arc/journey on Arrow. It was mangled for so many seasons because they started off on the wrong foot and pushed too far one way. I only hope that is not what is in store for the Legends. I am a little more hopeful than I am with the Arrow writers in the sense that a lot of the Legends as morons is for the Time Bureaus benefit, so as long as a I can see beyond that. And luckily it's really only hit Nate hard, and frankly he was never on sturdy ground for me anyway.

I don't think Sara's skills were downgraded, I think it might have been a she is rusty moment. But that might be a rosy glasses interpretation of the scene. Sara being a bad-ass fighter is one of the highlights of the show, I hope that is never taken away for plot or writer inadequacy.

[Starfish35]

I don't know that Sara's skills were downgraded so much as Ava was made to be just that good.   I suppose the thought is that making them equals in that is the way to building some grudging respect between them, which gradually turns into something more.   I mean, I can see what they're doing.  I just don't necessarily like it very much.  

In all candor, I think I could grow to like Ava eventually, but she's just not the type of personality I can see with Sara, and that is probably making her irritate me more than she normally would.

[kismet]

I hate when people are brought in as LIs and the it's like they are forced to carry a big flashy "LI" sign over their head. Arrow brought on Ray like that and it was annoying. I prefer more organic stories that either stem from an actors' chemistry or from a logical storyline. It's also annoying when its so obvious that they cast a hot person to be a LI. It's just a little overdone, and requires good writing to not be trite. Ava is not bothering me so much, I think because I refuse to acknowledge that they are likely setting her up to be the LI. For me right now, she is just an example of a strong female leader, which is welcome change in the male dominated Flarrowverse. Hopefully, she gets to be more than just an obstacle or nuisance to the Legends. I can see that the writers are trying to bring them into a orbit with each other, perhaps for romantic purposes, perhaps not. I hope its just to have more competent females on the screen and not as just a LI for SL. Perhaps with the actors spending more time together offscreen, perhaps it will help build a chemistry that will translate onscreen if the writers intend to put them together. Because right now, I don't see any romantic chemistry between them. I just see animosity, and I hate the cliched animosity turns to love plot line. I think SL deserves better, especially when I have seen SL/CL have non-platonic chemistry with other actors before.

[Sakura12]

3 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I don't know that Sara's skills were downgraded so much as Ava was made to be just that good.   I suppose the thought is that making them equals in that is the way to building some grudging respect between them, which gradually turns into something more.   I mean, I can see what they're doing.  I just don't necessarily like it very much.  

In all candor, I think I could grow to like Ava eventually, but she's just not the type of personality I can see with Sara, and that is probably making her irritate me more than she normally would.

I'm supposed to believe that Ava is an equal to Sara who beat Vandal Savage (an immortal demi-god), Malcolm Meryln (a cockroach LoA member) and Damian Darhk (a long lived LoA member) in hand to hand combat. I think it would've been better if Sara wiped the floor with Agent Ava and she begrudgingly had to admit that Sara's a better fighter than her. Nobody wants's another Laurel situation, where she's introduced as an antagonist that is rude and condescending, then magically is an equal in fighting skills to everyone else. It shows a softness to admit defeat and they could've used that opportunity to show us Ava's softer side. 

[Starfish35]

Oh I agree with you.  I was just saying that's what I think the writers are trying to do.  

From my perspective, I think it would have been interesting to see Sara with someone different than herself, someone who maybe can't beat or equal her at hand-to-hand combat, but would have a different approach/perspective on solving problems.   *shrug* But obviously the writers and I are not on the same page. 

[Proteus]

5 hours ago, kismet said:

I hate when people are brought in as LIs and the it's like they are forced to carry a big flashy "LI" sign over their head. Arrow brought on Ray like that and it was annoying. I prefer more organic stories that either stem from an actors' chemistry or from a logical storyline. It's also annoying when its so obvious that they cast a hot person to be a LI. It's just a little overdone, and requires good writing to not be trite. Ava is not bothering me so much, I think because I refuse to acknowledge that they are likely setting her up to be the LI. For me right now, she is just an example of a strong female leader, which is welcome change in the male dominated Flarrowverse. Hopefully, she gets to be more than just an obstacle or nuisance to the Legends. I can see that the writers are trying to bring them into a orbit with each other, perhaps for romantic purposes, perhaps not. I hope its just to have more competent females on the screen and not as just a LI for SL. Perhaps with the actors spending more time together offscreen, perhaps it will help build a chemistry that will translate onscreen if the writers intend to put them together. Because right now, I don't see any romantic chemistry between them. I just see animosity, and I hate the cliched animosity turns to love plot line. I think SL deserves better, especially when I have seen SL/CL have non-platonic chemistry with other actors before.

I like how Sara & Ava are developing and I see chemistry between the actresses. I'm not sure who or what would be better than what we are getting with Ava right now. We haven't even seen much of her so far. I don't mind the hate to love story. It happens all the time. So far I think Caity and Jes play off each other very well.

[Proteus]

http://ew.com/tv/2017/10/24/legends-of-tomorrow-season-3-spoilers-totems/

Looking forward to more Zari/Mick:

Those types of complications are exactly what Zari has been dealing with in her future, so she thrives in this situation. “That’s right up her alley,” Ashe says. “Zari has had to live a very scrappy existence and steal when she has to, so I think she’s very, very comfortable. Actually, I think she aligns with Rory in terms of, ‘Let’s break the rules.'”

If you suspected chemistry between Zari and Mick during Tuesday’s episode, it’s for good reason: The two are more alike than anyone else on the Waverider. “Rory senses that she’s kind of like the new Rory,” Purcell says. “That’s the way he would look at it. She likes to eat, she’s very cynical, sarcastic. Rory is very much like that as well. So, yeah, he recognizes himself in her definitely.” But don’t necessarily expect the two to be romantically involved. “There’s a mutual respect there,” Ashe says. (Both Guggenheim and EP Phil Klemmer note that Zari has great chemistry with basically everyone on the team.)

A whole episode starring Zari coming:

http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/10/25/legends-of-tomorrow-groundhog-day-star-trek-the-next-generation/

Edited October 25, 2017 by Proteus

[tennisgurl]

Next week: Tiny Ray is killed by Pennywise? 

[Miss Dee]

Why is everybody making the IT references? Am I the only old fogey that got a distinct E.T. vibe from those glowing eyes??

[Proteus]

5 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

Why is everybody making the IT references? Am I the only old fogey that got a distinct E.T. vibe from those glowing eyes??

I got E.T. as well.

[MarkHB]

Well, given that the episode name is "Phone Home" :)

[Aeryn13]

Quote

In all candor, I think I could grow to like Ava eventually, but she's just not the type of personality I can see with Sara, and that is probably making her irritate me more than she normally would.

I agree. And so far I`m none too fond of the Ava character. She appears very one-dimensional right now, come in, be smug about the Time Bureau/herself, show disdain to the Legends, be totally outclassed by Sara in key moments (okay, that, I have little problem with because the opposite would annoy the hell out of me) and leave. However, it means I see her as far less strong and capable than she seems to believe herself to be. 

Now I really liked the dynamic Sara had with Snart in Season 1. He was not someone who could best her in hand-to-hand combat IMO because while he could hold his own in a physical fight, he wasn`t a trained warrior. And he, too, would talk about his own greatness. However, unlike Ava, it wasn`t unwarranted as he was generally very competent. And not outclassed in key moments. I saw him as more of an equal to Sara. And personality-wise they were different enough to make it interesting but I could still see them fit. 

Nyssa, I loved as well. She had a personality a lot more similar to Sara and she was definitely an equal. She was also rather kind and warm as a person to those she cares about.   

When has Sara ever given the indication she one-note bitchyness? It`s not cute banter or even hate-to-love banter, just very abrasively one-note. Unless they show a different side to Agent Annoying - and soon - this pairing is doomed to me. Shallowly speaking, I don`t even see the hotness factor much.     

Edited October 26, 2017 by Aeryn13

[Sakura12]

Taking this to the relationship thread.

[Starfish35]

Posted in Mind Your Surroundings thread:

Spoiler Room: Scoop on Arrow, The Flash, Grey's Anatomy, and more

Quote

Are Ray and Zari going to be a thing on Legends of Tomorrow? — Kendra

Though Ray has been lacking when it comes to the ladies, it doesn’t sound like the show is going that route. “I don’t know that Zari has romance on the mind at all,” Tala Ashe says. “What you’re going to find out this season is that her priorities are on something very, very different, so I don’t foresee that being a setup for a romance between them. I think she and Ray are going to be pals maybe down the line, but I don’t think it’s a romantic thing.”

[kismet]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

Posted in Mind Your Surroundings thread:

Spoiler Room: Scoop on Arrow, The Flash, Grey's Anatomy, and more

One can only hope.... I remember when they announced her and I as like ugh I can see this being a LI character for Ray. I just don't see Ray as a good romantic partner/LI the way BR plays romantic on the Flarrowverse. He brings no heat, just a lot of cling. I really hope his next LI & him have palpable chemistry, I can't take another RP broken heart to mend, that had no chemistry to at least made the journey enjoyable.

[Sakura12]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

Posted in Mind Your Surroundings thread:

Spoiler Room: Scoop on Arrow, The Flash, Grey's Anatomy, and more

I remember CL saying something similar when she joined Arrow and we all know what happened. 

[Starfish35]

From the press release for #306 "Helen Hunt" posted in the Media and Behind the Scenes thread, 

Quote

When the Legends track down an anachronism in 1930s Hollywood, they discover it's none other than a time-displaced Helen of Troy and she's just started a war between two film studios.

As the pre-season trailers indicated, the Golden Age of Hollywood episode and the Helen of Troy episode are the same.  

Quote

As the Legends try to fix history and return Helen (guest star Bar Paly) to the Bronze Age, things get complicated when they are blindsided by the appearance of a former enemy.

I'll bet this is when they find out about Damien Dahrk being resurrected.  I know this is the post-Arrow season 4 Darhk, but I'm wondering if dying and being resurrected will have brought back his memories of interacting with the Legends last season, before they replaced him in the timeline.

And Bar Paly - interesting.  I know her from NCIS LA (though I'm a season or so behind on that so I don't know if she's still around).

Edited October 27, 2017 by Starfish35

[Proteus]

Dominic Purcell posted this from the Viking episode that's filming. Wentworth is taping:

[Miss Dee]

Aw, you usually don't get to see those two smile like that in character.

ETA: Of course, I'm burying the lede there: Captain Cold is lasting beyond the crossover! And if those are Viking furs, that's from Episode 9...which is the first Constantine episode!!

Edited October 28, 2017 by Miss Dee

[Proteus]

1 hour ago, Miss Dee said:

Aw, you usually don't get to see those two smile like that in character.

ETA: Of course, I'm burying the lede there: Captain Cold is lasting beyond the crossover! And if those are Viking furs, that's from Episode 9...which is the first Constantine episode!!

They said at SDCC that the new Snart would join the Waverider and be with the Legends for a few episodes. So I am not too surprised. I would guess he will at least be in the Constantine two parter.

[Sakura12]

Is Earth X Snart joining the team after the crossover? 

CL posted this which looks to be from the Viking episode.

[Miss Dee]

Although, as it does any time Wentworth Miller shows up, my perennial fear that Mick will leave the Waverider to go thieving in Central City with Captain Cold once again raises its ugly head. I still think it'd be a betrayal of the character's growth.

[Sakura12]

Sara looks like a Viking queen in that pic. She'd probably like the Viking age since women fought along side the men. They actually just discovered a viking warrior grave that was originally thought to be a man was actually a woman. 

[kismet]

The fact that they found a way to bring back WM when his schedule and his interest allowed for it, makes me very hopeful that they will do the same thing with Victor Garber.

I know I have to brace myself for losing my weekly dose of VG, but knowing the writers find a way to bring people back gives me hope.

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, kismet said:

The fact that they found a way to bring back WM when his schedule and his interest allowed for it, makes me very hopeful that they will do the same thing with Victor Garber.

I know I have to brace myself for losing my weekly dose of VG, but knowing the writers find a way to bring people back gives me hope.

If it makes you feel any better, I happen to know that the talented Mr. Garber will be popping up again on The Orville in three weeks.  :)

[kismet]

2 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

If it makes you feel any better, I happen to know that the talented Mr. Garber will be popping up again on The Orville in three weeks.  :)

I haven't watched it yet, I think its just on a bad night & I hate that Fox makes you wait a full 8 days before watching episodes. Is it good? Should I try to watch it?

[Miss Dee]

My husband and I are enjoying it highly. It's basically Star Trek: Original with 21st century humans manning the ship and a more modern sense of humour. But despite the fact it's created by Seth MacFarlane, it's neither a parody nor a comedy, so know that going in.

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, kismet said:

I haven't watched it yet, I think its just on a bad night & I hate that Fox makes you wait a full 8 days before watching episodes. Is it good? Should I try to watch it?

Yes -- and you can also watch it on Hulu the day after the episode airs, which is how I watch it.

[Starfish35]

Per this tweet from MG, 310 is in production and is titled "Daddy Darhkest".

Three guesses what it's about. :)

 

[Miss Dee]

So apparently this is the first episode where Constantine shows up, if what I read on Reddit is to be believed - not Ep 9 (the first one after the crossover with the Vikings and Captain Cold).

[Starfish35]

Makes sense - I wasn't sure how Constantine was going to fit into a Vikings episode.  Does anyone know if Matt Ryan is in Vancouver?

Edited October 30, 2017 by Starfish35

[Maverick]

 Given what they're doing with Stein, I think killing him off would be really dark for this show.  My prediction is that either 1) his death is intentional as part of the plan to separate him from Firestorm and he'll be resurrected by either science or magic (the overall arc of the season involves mystical elements) or 2) Lily becomes the focus of the Time Bureau because she's an anachronism and the Legends have to fake the death of the Stein family so they can live in hiding.  The latter would explain the need for the funeral in the crossover.     

[Starfish35]

Regarding Stein, the episode description for next week says:

Quote

Meanwhile, Stein (Victor Garber) discovers what Ray (Brandon Routh) and Jax (Franz Drameh) are up to and is not entirely pleased.

So Stein finds out pretty quickly, and probably is hurt at first.  

And the following week:

Quote

Meanwhile, Stein (Victor Garber) and Jax (Franz Drameh) find themselves in an unusual predicament.

This must be the episode where they switch bodies, very likely as a result of something going wrong while they're working on the project.

Regarding next week, there's also this:

Quote

When they arrive in London, they run into Rip (guest star Arthur Darvill), but not everyone welcomes him back so quickly, leaving Sara (Caity Lotz) to make a tough choice in the end.

I wonder what this means.  Does Rip ask to rejoin the team, and Sara says no? That's kind of what it sounds like, but I'm not sure why Rip would want back on the team, unless he's been kicked out by the Time Bureau.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Starfish35

[Starfish35]

In case anyone had any doubt about this being the episode where Constantine shows up....

13 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Legends of Tomorrow Teases Constantine’s Arrival With a Perfect Script Cover
November 1, 2017   by Jon Arvedon
https://www.cbr.com/legends-of-tomorrow-constantine-script/

[tennisgurl]

Oh Stein. Vampires can’t exist? A few years ago, you probably assumed that magic, aliens, multiple alternative universes, reincarnation, and your career as a flame throwing superhero who shares a mind with a 20 year old mechanic didn’t exist either. And yet, here we are...

[Sakura12]

Constantine is filming Legends. I'm glad he's getting scenes with Sara since he's the reason she's back. 

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

since he's the reason she's back. 

I hope they at least mention this.

[Sakura12]

They have to at least mention what he did for her. Now I'm wondering if Constantine finds them or they contact him. Sara would be the only one that would know of him. 

I still want to know where Sara was when she was dead for a year. Hell would the most likely option being that she killed people for a living and Constantine was there during the Mari episode. It would be interesting if they talked about their experiences there. Sara can't really talk about that with anyone else. We got a whole episode focused on Ray. I want an episode about Sara's experiences. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Sakura12

[Proteus]

Wentworth Miller posted this. I guess after this year he's done coming back in any fashion?

[Starfish35]

Sounds like it.  

[kismet]

Looks like WM may be done. Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about it. I miss Snart, but I also don't need him on the show. And frankly, I get tired of the speculating when, if and how he is going to come back. Perhaps this might shut down that line of speculating. If he comes back in the future, it will be a nice surprise, it won't be an expectation. And he is done, then it it what it is - you can't force an actor to stick around. Well you can, but it never turns out well.

[johntfs]

I liked Wentworth Miller and his portrayal of Snart, but I think if he'd stuck around we wouldn't have had all the development we got with Mick - and I really enjoy what we got with Mick.  Snart always came off a bit too "stylized" for me with the parka and the cold puns and such.  Mick just comes across as more of a real person.

Edited November 6, 2017 by johntfs

[kirinan]

Yeah, even I'm okay with this, because every time he comes on he moves farther and farther away from the Snart I liked, anyway. Which is great for an actor to play, but as a fan, there was a reason I enjoyed first-season Snart--his character growth. And to be honest, the other crew have melded so well that I love the group they've become now. Unfortunately, he would just disrupt the bonkers dynamic I've come to love (well, for the most part. I still am not sold on Nate, and I'm not happy about Stein leaving). 

[Sakura12]

He was a great character and I agree I don't want see a bunch of different versions, I liked the character growth from the first Snart.  I've gotten over losing Snart last season. His absence gave Mick more to do then just be the muscle. With the Legends Mick has become a more well rounded person. He still the same Mick only with a crew of people he cares about. I think he's happier under Sara's command than Rip's, because Sara doesn't judge him for being who he is. Plus she'll kill or steal if necessary and is completely fine when he does it. She'll also ask his opinion, Snart never did that. 

So it's sad to lose Wentworth, however since we are never getting back the original Snart I'm okay with him being finished with the Flarrowverse.  

[Starfish35]

55 minutes ago, kirinan said:

there was a reason I enjoyed first-season Snart--his character growth. And to be honest, the other crew have melded so well that I love the group they've become now. Unfortunately, he would just disrupt the bonkers dynamic I've come to love (well, for the most part. I still am not sold on Nate, and I'm not happy about Stein leaving). 

 

40 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

So it's sad to lose Wentworth, however since we are never getting back the original Snart I'm okay with him being finished with the Flarrowverse.  

I agree.  Snart was one of my favorite characters in the first season and I was very upset when he was killed off, but it's obvious that we're never going to see that Snart again.  And much as I enjoyed the character in the first season, I don't know how he'd fit into the current group dynamics.   I like what we have now, for the most part.  I still frequently wish for Nate to be dropped in a black hole, and I'm going to miss Stein as well (but even that is being lessened some by how obviously Victor Garber no longer wants to be there).  But Sara, Mick, Ray, Jax, Amaya, and Zari..... we have a good team now. 

Edited November 6, 2017 by Starfish35

[Starfish35]

This was just posted in the Mind Your Surroundings thread:

Fringe alum John Noble to voice big bad Mallus on Legends of Tomorrow

Quote

Legends of Tomorrow‘s new villain will sound very familiar to Fringe fans.

EW can reveal that John Noble will be lending his voice to The CW super series as season 3 villain Mallus, who has so far been shrouded in mystery but will first be heard during Tuesday’s episode.

“That’s the big mythology of the season and what makes Mallus cool at this stage of everyone’s viewing experience is that right now he is just a name and is this whisper,” executive producer Marc Guggenheim says. “You’ll learn more about him in [episode] 305.”

 More at the link.

[Sakura12]

The CW has been getting some pretty decent actors this season with Michael Emerson and John Noble. 

[Miss Dee]

As long as Noble is not Rip's time-displaced son, I'm in.

[Sakura12]

Don't put that out in the world, no one wants a repeat of that. Lol.