Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[kirinan]

19 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

Mari also appeared on Arrow and had a significant role in saving William from Darhk and destroying Darhk's power source.  It'd be a bit problematic if she didn't exist.

Except this is Legends, not Arrow. And none of what you said made any sense to me because I know nothing about who William is or what you mean by Dahrk's power source. So for those of us who don't watch Arrow, Mari doesn't exist and doesn't matter to us. I promise, squidprincess, I'm not saying that to cause an argument, just to express my frustration with shows that rely on the mythology of other shows to tell their stories.

Edited January 16, 2017 by kirinan

[Starfish35]

Amaya doesn't have to leave at the end of this season for Mari to exist.  She just has to leave at some point.  *shrug*  Maybe even at the end of the show.

(I do wish they would address the Mari issue on LoT though.  According to the most  recently released season of Vixen, which is supposed to be canon for the Flarrowverse, Ray and Firestorm know Mari and have worked with her.  So it's odd that she's never been mentioned.)

I do think Nate will leave though.   He's not the failure that the Hawks were, but I don't think he's been a raging success either.  And they've said they want to do some rotation in and out of characters (I forget the exact quote).  So I think he's the most likely candidate.  (Although I know we're a little early in the game to be thinking about who's leaving. Lol.)

Edited January 16, 2017 by Starfish35

[squidprincess]

3 minutes ago, kirinan said:

Except this is Legends, not Arrow. And none of what you said made any sense to me because I know nothing about William or a power source. So for those of us who don't watch Arrow, Mari doesn't exist and doesn't matter to us. Not saying that to cause an argument, just to express my frustration with shows that rely on the mythology of other shows to tell their stories.

Well, we also perhaps shouldn't be in the habit of wanting to get rid of a successful heroine, particularly a black heroine, just because it's more convenient to keep her grandmother on another show.

I'm sure there are ways to manage ensuring Mari's existence while keeping Amaya on the show (I hope so, because Amaya is one of my favorites), but I'm uncomfortable with the idea that Mari is expendable just because some people don't know who she is.

Edited January 16, 2017 by squidprincess

[Proteus]

22 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

Mari also appeared on Arrow and had a significant role in saving William from Darhk and destroying Darhk's power source.  It'd be a bit problematic if she didn't exist.

Personally, Mari nor that Arrow episode matters to me. Legends shouldn't be beholden to an Arrow episode if they want to keep Amaya on the show.

[kirinan]

9 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

Well, we also perhaps shouldn't be in the habit of wanting to get read of a successful heroine, particularly a black heroine, just because it's more convenient to keep her grandmother on another show.

I'm sure there are ways to manage both, but I'm uncomfortable with the idea that Mari is expendable just because some people don't know who she is.

I agree with you 100%. The showrunners should have thought of that before they made the shows so dependent on each other. I'm sure they had dollar signs (rating signs?) in their eyes, figuring everyone would rush to their other shows and watch them all. But they forgot to allow for individual tastes.

Back on topic, I'm pretty disappointed that in all these photos coming out, we're not seeing Wentworth Miller. He's still showing in Raiders of the Lost Art on IMDB, so I'm still keeping the faith that he'll be there next week, but c'mon, spoiler sites! Throw us Snart fans another bone!

ETA: You didn't cause an argument, Starfish35. Just some logistics discussion. :)

Edited January 16, 2017 by kirinan

[Starfish35]

*sigh* I didn't mean to start an argument.  I don't know how long Amaya is staying on the show, but there's no reason she can't stay on the show until it ends.  She just has to go back to the past whenever she leaves, so Mari can exist.  That's all.

[squidprincess]

I wonder if we'll see Snart when they release the photos for Legion of Doom (episode 10).  I thought I heard that he was definitely in that one.  But to be honest, most of the rumors/confirmations are blurring together in my head.

[Proteus]

1 hour ago, squidprincess said:

Well, we also perhaps shouldn't be in the habit of wanting to get rid of a successful heroine, particularly a black heroine, just because it's more convenient to keep her grandmother on another show.

I'm sure there are ways to manage ensuring Mari's existence while keeping Amaya on the show (I hope so, because Amaya is one of my favorites), but I'm uncomfortable with the idea that Mari is expendable just because some people don't know who she is.

The actress was offered a role on Legends and turned them down. That's why I don't think LOT needs to make sure her character is preserved somehow when she may never want to play the live action version again.

[kismet]

On 1/16/2017 at 6:07 PM, squidprincess said:

Mari also appeared on Arrow and had a significant role in saving William from Darhk and destroying Darhk's power source.  It'd be a bit problematic if she didn't exist.

Well if all else fails, they can just have Barry run really fast to fix everything. :)

I do understand your frustrations for trying to preserve the timeline and pre-existing canon. I don't think the writers necessarily care as much. Because in their minds they can fix it with time travel or BA's running. Get Amaya back to right timeline and simply have it be the Legends policy to not discuss it with Mari, and bam problem fixed.

I also do understand @kirinan frustration in having other shows' mythology & plot dictate the show I watch. I don't watch Vixen (nor do I plan to), but it's frustrating to miss certain stuff. I watch the other Flarrowverse shows to a certain degree. So I understand a lot or plot, but it is frustrating. Like losing Sara Diggle because of Flashpoint.

I do agree with you from your other post, that it is bad precedence to discard away heroines. Although, I do think the actress who played Mari passing on a more permanent live action gig is why they brought in Amaya. I do think TPTB were trying to preserve the character. By casting her grandmother and not recasting the entire role, they were able to salvage the character and the legacy. It is a little more honorable than just chucking away the whole concept or replacing her with another guy character. 

I enjoy LoT, but I do think they need a better gender balance. For me Gideon does not count as a female. I would love to see another female being brought on, especially if they had a familial connection to the team. I think Stein's daughter would be a perfect option. I also think his wife or if they save Ray's fiancee. I would have said LL would have been a good option, but I honestly question KC's ability to act in a team setting. She does better with 1 on 1, not so much on the rotating team dynamic that LoT runs on. Also there is too much pre-existing drama between the Lance Sisters to make me want to watch that on regular basis.

Edited January 18, 2017 by kismet

[MarkHB]

On 1/16/2017 at 7:36 PM, Proteus said:

The actress was offered a role on Legends and turned them down. That's why I don't think LOT needs to make sure her character is preserved somehow when she may never want to play the live action version again.

To me, I think they're building it as a comics universe moreso than individual shows, and at the very least they want to reward those of us who watch the shows like comics nerds and make the effort to keep up with the whole thing.  I don't watch Arrow regularly either, but I do watch the Vixen animated show, and I made a point to tune in to her appearance on Arrow.  So I am sure that, whenever Amaya leaves the show, she will do so in a manner that will lead to Mari's eventual appearance.  And per the cartoon, Mari was actually born in Africa, so we could see Amaya wind up there when she leaves.

[Proteus]

I don't get why everyone assumes Amaya has to leave at some point. Amaya could have already had a baby, which I proposed before.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Proteus

[rtalive]

2 hours ago, kismet said:

Well if all else fails, they can just have Barry run really fast to fix everything. :)

I do understand your frustrations for trying to preserve the timeline and pre-existing canon. I don't think the writers necessarily care as much. Because in their minds they can fix it with time travel or BA's running. Get Amaya back to right timeline and simply have it be the Legends policy to not discuss it with Mari, and bam problem fixed.

I also do understand @kirinan frustration in having other shows' mythology & plot dictate the show I watch. I don't watch Vixen (nor do I plan to), but it's frustrating to miss certain stuff. I watch the other Flarrowverse shows to a certain degree. So I understand a lot or plot, but it is frustrating. Like losing Sara Diggle because of Flashpoint.

I do agree with you from your other post, that it is bad precedence to discard away heroines. Although, I do think the actress who played Mari passing on a more permanent live action gig is why they brought in Amaya. I do think TPTB were trying to preserve the character. By casting her grandmother and not recasting the entire role, they were able to salvage the character and the legacy. It is a little more honorable than just chucking away the whole concept or replacing her with another guy character. 

I enjoy LoT, but I do think they need a better gender balance. For me Gideon does not count as a female. I would love to see another female being brought on, especially if they had a familial connection to the team. I think Stein's daughter would be a perfect option. I also think his wife or if they save Ray's fiancee. I would have said LL would have been a good option, but I honestly question KC's ability to act in a team setting. She does better with 1 on 1, not so much on the rotating team dynamic that LoT runs on. Also there is too much pre-existing drama between the Lance Sisters to make me want to watch that on regular basis.

Yes I am also frustrated about the gender balance too. We have so many male characters and only two female characters and one of them is basically on the background with no story and the other is more used for the action and rarely has more personal stories. On the other hand all the male characters have bromance stories and fooling around, which makes them so stupid and childish and really hard to care for them sometimes. Ray and Nate are so alike that I don't even see the point why both of them are on that show.

[squidprincess]

I have to admit, I tend to agree about Nate.  He's likable enough most of the time, but I can't quite figure out what he brings to the table that the other characters don't provide already.  His skillset is kind of redundant when Rip and Gideon have always been able to provide historical context in the past.  It's been arguably useful now, but only because Gideon's been weirdly quiet and Rip's been gone.    They might be able to stretch his usefulness out a bit longer, depending on the nature of Rip's amnesia, but eventually the Time Master will get his memory back.  In terms of personality, he's very similar to Ray, but without some of Ray's more sensitive, compassionate qualities.   And if we need someone to make a social faux pas on a mission, we have Ray or Mick or sometimes even Martin to provide.  I think his powers are sometimes very useful, but I'm not sure there aren't other solutions (Ray did become gigantic in Leviathan after all.)

I keep holding out hope that there's some kind of twist about him, like that his "physicist friend" who got him interested in Time Travel was Eobard or something.  I don't necessarily want him to be evil or anything, I'd just like something unique to justify his presence.

[Miss Dee]

I don't mind Nate, but I highly resent his getting between the Mick/Ray bromance. I need my Puppy and Pitbull adventures, dammit!

[Sakura12]

I don't understand Nate's purpose. They don't need a historian when they have Gideon and they certainly don't need a historian that doesn't seem to know or respect history. His steel powers are really not that useful. It is upsetting that Vixen isn't given more to do. She actually does have a useful ability. But like Kendra before her she seems to be relegated to love interest. While the new male character gets to be front and center for everything. 

I do think we will lose Vixen next season and get another female character. Apparently you can only have two on these shows at a time. I expect Nate to stay and we'll also get yet another male hero to join the team. 

[Proteus]

http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/01/legends-of-tomorrow-episode-211.html

“Turncoat” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

A GOOD FIGHT — When The Legends find a new Time Aberration they learn they must travel to the winter of 1776 to protect George Washington and the American Revolutionary War. Unfortunately, things don’t go as planned, forcing Sara (Caity Lotz) to send out Nate (Nick Zano) and Amaya (Maisie-Richardson-Sellers) to help.  Meanwhile, Jax (Franz Drameh) and Stein (Victor Garber) who are busy protecting the incapacitated Waverider from their new enemy, are forced to step into roles that they don’t think they are prepared for.  Brandon Routh, Dominic Purcell and Arthur Darvill also star, Alice Troughton directed the episode written by Grainne Godfree & Matthew Maala (#211).  Original airdate 2/7/2017.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Proteus

[Sakura12]

Ep 15 title. Are we going to Middle Earth?

[MarkHB]

Interesting title.  I assume it refers to the Spear of Destiny, but... wasn't there supposed to be a King Arthur-type episode this season? (Or at least an "age of chivalry" episode)

[squidprincess]

I think Camelot 3000 will be the King Arthur ep.  There were quite a few behind the scenes photos of characters in armor.

[kismet]

Wait wasn't the Spear of Destiny what the mini-star projector told them to look for? Perhaps this Fellowship episode is dedicated to the Bad Guys and their mission to find it. Or the Legends mission to protect it. Not sure what time period it will land in. But I can't help but think it sounds like they will be in some type of medieval or renaissance period clothes. It does harken to Middle Earth, but I don't know how they would capture that in this show beyond just putting them in similar clothing. It's been a long time since I watched LOTR series, but there really wasn't a specific time age.

[Miss Dee]

Could it refer to the Legends being a "fellowship" that has to deliver the Spear somewhere, maybe to destroy it because it's so dangerous? And maybe the Spear "whispers" to them by altering their realities to make them all paranoid and distrustful of one another?

[Sakura12]

LotR was fantasy or based on Norse mythogy so I would guess the far past. I was joking about how the play on the title. 

But I would love to see the Legends go on a great adventure walk to destroy the spear. 

[MarkHB]

3 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

And maybe the Spear "whispers" to them by altering their realities to make them all paranoid and distrustful of one another?

The Spear is a powerful mystical artifact, but I would be shocked if they made it have harmful evil effects, as it gained its power through its association with Jesus (John 19:34 if you want an exact reference).

[Sakura12]

They said the spear has the ability to rewrite reality, so they can have the characters start to see different realities and get confused as to which one is the real one.  

[Miss Dee]

@MarkHB, I forgot it was associated with Jesus. Suggesting any association between the Christ and Sauron - yeah, the writers aren't gonna go there on purpose.

I still think there's a good chance of a group mission and accidentally setting the thing off to confuse reality around them. Good time to bring any tensions and character beats to the surface, much like with "Marooned" (which had some of the best character setup and writing in the series).

[squidprincess]

I wonder if we won't see a temptation plot when it comes to the spear.  Grief has been a pretty steady subplot this season: Mick for Snart, Amaya for Rex, Sara for Laurel.  And well, Rip's grief over Miranda and Jonas was the driving emotional arc of season one.  Any one of those characters may have a hard time resisting using the spear, if it really can alter reality and bring loved ones back.

[Proteus]

EW Interview:

http://ew.com/tv/2017/01/23/legends-tomorrow-legion-doom-spoilers/

DC'S LEGENDS OF TOMORROW

Legends of Tomorrow: Can the Legion of Doom really work together?

NATALIE ABRAMS@NATALIEABRAMS

POSTED ON JANUARY 23, 2017 AT 5:24PM EST

Now that the Legion of Doom’s true goal has been revealed, will the triumvirate of evil actually be able to work together on DC’s Legends of Tomorrow?

Sure, the Reverse-Flash (Matt Letscher) was able to lure Damien Darhk (Neal McDonough) and Malcolm Merlyn (John Barrowman) to his cause — with Leonard Snart (Wentworth Miller) soon to join the team as well — but each of these men is a leader in their own right, which means working toward the singular purpose of using the Spear of Destiny to rewrite reality isn’t going to be easy. EW turned to executive producer Phil Klemmer to get the scoop on what’s in store:

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: The Legion is going after Rip Hunter for the Spear of Destiny. Can you expand on what the spear does?
PHIL KLEMMER: We talked a little bit about the idea that this mystical object was there at Christ’s crucifixion, is imbued with mystical powers, and we allude to the fact that it can rewrite reality itself, which is a vague and confusing notion we try to explain. Our show is all about time travel and the idea that you can go and change things. This is basically like the trump card — ugh, I hate to use that word. The Spear of Destiny basically allows you rewrite history once and for all — past, present, and future. If you think about our team going through time changing things, they’re writing in pencil; the Spear of Destiny allows you to write history in indelible pen. Whoever has it can basically render our team completely impotent. You can erase the Legends from ever having existed with no time aberrations. It’s a divine artifact that imparts divine powers.

What is the Legion’s ultimate goal in rewriting history?
Obviously, the bad guys want it because it’s a powerful thing. As we get into the back half of the season, you get into the pathos psychology of why each of our members of the Legion of Doom wants it, because it’s just boring if bad guys just want the Spear of Destiny just to be bad with. We dig out the personal reasons why Malcolm Merlyn, Eobard Thawne, and Damien Darhk each want it. They’re bad guys, but they’re also human beings.

 

What is motivating Malcolm?
Malcolm’s a guy who has enormous regret over the mistakes he made, like the crashing of the Queen’s Gambit, which led to the show Arrow, but also the estrangement of his child, the death of his wife, etc.

How about for Darhk?
The Damien Darhk who we have on our show, who was plucked out of the ’80s, has been told by Thawne, “Hey man, your future sucks, you die at the end of Arrow season 4, so you need me if you want to fix that.”

What about the Reverse-Flash?
Thawne’s reasons for having it are more mysterious, but of course we know that he’s not a normal speedster. The fact that Eddie Thawne (Rick Cosnett) committed suicide in The Flash season 1 has made him not a whole person. Getting the Spear of Destiny, of course they want to be bad guys and be king-of-the-world sort of guys, but they also want to fix these very personal things in their lives. That’s the fun of being able to do TV is we get to learn more about these bad guys, and eventually, in episode 10, we get to tell an episode from the point of view of the Legion of Doom, which is enormously fun.

Since they’re all leaders in their own right, how does the Legion work together?
That’s a great point. That’s why we had multiple baddies — we wanted it to be a den of vipers. We wanted to give them their own personal agendas. Yeah, the fun is the prospect of them buddy-f—ing each other. In episode 10, which is two episodes from now, it all reaches a head. The conflict among the three primary members of the Legion, it’s all about asymmetrical power. Eobard Thawne, the speedster, is the only one who is able to take them through time, he’s the one who brought the missions to them, he’s the one recruited them. He’s not stupid; he picked three people for a reason. There’s a reason they don’t build tables with three legs; they tend to collapse. That was integral to his plan. He didn’t do this out of the goodness of his heart, bringing on Merlin and Darhk.

But what we get to in episode 10 is the two lesser shareholders of the Legion; are they going to turn against each other, or are they going to team up? How do they find equality? When you’re dealing with a speedster and this guy who clearly has them by whatever sensitive part of the body you choose, how do you take back leverage? There’s a great twist in the episode because you realize the one thing that Eobard Thawne is scared of. They basically force him to confront that and force him to decide, “Either we help you, or you go it alone and you’re screwed.” In a way, the episode is all about a stronger Legion, because they finally find that everybody becomes a 33 percent shareholder, but I don’t think there’s a lot of shows where you can have an episode all told basically from the point of view of your bad guys. It’s every bit as much an episode of Legends as a normal episode.

We know that Captain Cold will be joining the Legion at some point. How will the team react to this new version of him, especially since some don’t know him?
There is a version of Snart that we got to know in season 1, and he underwent an evolution. He died trying to save the team. From a moral sense, he would get the most improved award for the Legends. It doesn’t make any sense of the Legion to go and recruit a rehabilitated version of Snart. The one that we met this season isn’t the Snart we know and love.

Might Snart try to recruit Mick (Dominic Purcell) for the Legion? What can you tease of that push and pull between them now?
For Rory, that’s really interesting, because his loyalty transcends good and bad. He’s Snart’s partner. The one constant in his life is that they have each other’s backs. When he returns to our show, it’s most interesting for Rory, because it sets him up for a big backslide. Rory is so vociferous about, “I’m not a hero, I’m never going to change,” but I think his arc with Amaya (Maisie Richardson-Sellers) this season is pretty poignant, especially in the last episode you guys saw. She’s gotten under his skin. It’s not a romantic thing, but there’s a real Beauty and the Beast vibe that those two characters have. So when Snart comes back, it’s really a question of, “Who is Rory? Has he really made progress? Or is he going to slip into his old ways?”

Edited January 24, 2017 by Proteus

[Miss Dee]

Honestly, I can't see any way Mick can become a Rogue again given his growth as a character. If that hadn't happened, and Mick just kept being the same guy who lost his partner and was wondering what the hell to do with himself now that he was gone, I could see Len coming back and talking him into being his partner in crime again. But to negate all of Mick's character growth like that would be extremely unsatisfying in a dramatic sense.

I could see reversing Len sacrificing himself for Mick and having it happen the other away around this time to show Mick's growth and foster Len's growth at the same time. But as they've "killed" Mick off once, it'd have to stick or it'd be incredibly contrived. Obviously that's the outcome I DON'T want!! I'm not sure I could continue watching if they killed my very favourite character, or contrived to reduce him back to the man who first joined the Wave Rider.

But I do think it would carry more dramatic weight if, instead of Len pulling Mick into the dark, Mick successfully pulled Len into the light - to the utter astonishment of everyone there, including Mick himself. Their whole dynamic has been built on Len leading as the brains and Mick following as the brawn. This would balance and possibly even reverse the division of power between them, thrusting Mick into the role of leader and even mentor with Len struggling to accept him in that role, having a profound effect on their dynamic. And not just inside the story, but in a meta sense for the audience as weve been conditioned by television to see Wentworth Miller in the dominant role and Dominic Purcell as his support. I would love to see gbe show play with those expectations.

This would also help bring Len as a character back to where he was before he sacrificed himself, as I don't want his growth to be negated long term either. I've nothing against the Captain Canary ship and I hope there's a role in there for Sara to play too, romantic or otherwise, but I do think the lion's share of the influence has to come from Mick for dramatic purposes.

Basically I just want to see Mick loved. Nobody loves him, and he thinks Amaya is the only one who even likes him - and he might be right. I'd love to see him grow into realizing he's needed and appreciated. I'd love to see the team realize this too. I want to see the team go completely ride or die for him, and see why and how they get to that and how he responds to that.

[Starfish35]

TVLine interview with Phil Klemmer.

Legends of Tomorrow EP Explains Rip Reset, Teases Big Reverse-Flash Reveal

[Lokiberry]

Quote

Yeah, the fun is the prospect of them buddy-f—ing each other.

That's not what buddy f'ing each other means. Although, with this group, both definitions could apply.

[Proteus]

Spoilers on Rips future:

http://tvline.com/2017/01/24/legends-of-tomorrow-season-2-rip-hunter-multiple-versions/#comment-list-wrapper

MG interview about Sara & Laurel:

http://ew.com/tv/2017/01/24/legends-tomorrow-arrow-sara-laurel/

MG interview:

http://www.cbr.com/legends-of-tomorrow-george-lucas-rip-hunter-captain-cold-marc-guggenheim-interview/

MG on Captain of Waverider status:

http://screenertv.com/television/legends-of-tomorrow-marc-guggenheim-rip-hunter-sara-lance/

Edited January 25, 2017 by Proteus

[rtalive]

On 1/19/2017 at 5:00 AM, Sakura12 said:

I don't understand Nate's purpose. They don't need a historian when they have Gideon and they certainly don't need a historian that doesn't seem to know or respect history. His steel powers are really not that useful. It is upsetting that Vixen isn't given more to do. She actually does have a useful ability. But like Kendra before her she seems to be relegated to love interest. While the new male character gets to be front and center for everything. 

I do think we will lose Vixen next season and get another female character. Apparently you can only have two on these shows at a time. I expect Nate to stay and we'll also get yet another male hero to join the team. 

I totally agree with you. First Vixen is way more interesting character, she has real powers, mysticism, and she comes from JSA. Her character has a lot of possibilities for story lines and to be more up front, opinionated, may be give advises to Sara or organize some mission. I am sure that she is probably master of disguise, and a very good judge of character, because of her close connection to animals, which are also very instinctive and intuitive creatures.

Nate on the other hand is a mediocre character with no substance. He is arrogant and foolish, acts like 15 years old. He gain his super powers by injection, no real struggle, no real development or crusade. He is also very unbelievable as a nerdy boy because of his looks. And I find it really degrading that he thought that helping the team with his knowledge is not heroic enough. He has to parade as a macho man in order to feel self confident. He is this boring stereotype but he gets front and central story lines and position in the show. Why?! 

We need more female characters on that show with their own story lines. We need more female friendships. Girls that kick ass, are bad ass and have their own developments and struggles. I think 3 girls and 4 guys is a good balance.

[darkestboy]

If we're going into Season 3 I would keep Rip, Sara, Amaya, Jax, Ray, Mick, Stein and add another female character into the mix. A new Huntress or Stargirl perhaps. I don't mind Nate but he's the one member of the group I think the show can afford to lose at the moment.

If we have to get another male hero, then how about a gay or bisexual one in the mix?

[Starfish35]

Yeah, if there's a character that isn't coming back next season, I'd personally place my bets on it being Nate.  There might be others as well, but I will be surprised if Nate sticks around.

And while these writers aren't always the best judge of what's working and what's not (judging by the other shows), I'm going to give them credit for recognizing that the Hawks did not work last season and writing them out.  So we'll see what happens.  

[Proteus]

I'm hoping we lose Nate. If they keep him but ax fan faves like Rip or Mick, I'll be pissed.

[Starfish35]

I.... ok I might be going out on a limb here, but I don't think we're going to lose any of the core characters unless the actors want out.  The Hawks were written out because they weren't working, but with both Snart and Rip, my understanding is that those were actor issues.  Wentworth Miller didn't want to commit to full-time, and Arthur Darvill had other commitments during the first part of this season.  But otherwise....they may talk about a revolving cast, but I don't think they're going to shake up what's working if they don't have to, especially with their ratings.  

[squidprincess]

If anything, I think the fact that they bent over backwards to accommodate Darvill's Broadchurch filming is a pretty clear sign that they want to keep him.  Otherwise, they could have easily wrote him out in a more permanent way.   The other actors seem pretty invested too.

The one character I wonder about is Martin.  Victor Garber is wonderful, but he's getting up there in age.  If he's growing tired of the role, who could blame him?  The storyline that they've set up now might work fairly well as an exit though.  And I'd bet the writers could finagle a way for Lily Stein to end up inheriting his half of the Firestorm role if they want.

Edited January 25, 2017 by squidprincess

[KirkB]

I seem to recall it was later mentioned Miller's contract always had him as a part timer. It's basically up to him when and how he comes back. And yes, as squidprincess just said, they clearly went out of their way for Darvill. 

As for who might leave this season, Nate and Amaya seem the most likely. They are the newest characters and unless the fans and/or the show runners adore them are probably considered the most expendable. I'd say Sara is the safest character, she's unlikely to go anywhere unless Lotz decides to. I can come up with a few reasons for Mick or Ray to leave. Stein or Jax are more complicated. On the one hand Firestorm can't exist without both of them unless something really dramatic happens. On the other hand, they don't seem to have the budget for Firestorm most of the time anyway, so having Stein or Jax go home and the other stay on the Waverider is not outside the realm of possibility.

[Proteus]

32 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

If anything, I think the fact that they bent over backwards to accommodate Darvill's Broadchurch filming is a pretty clear sign that they want to keep him.  Otherwise, they could have easily wrote him out in a more permanent way.   The other actors seem pretty invested too.

The one character I wonder about is Martin.  Victor Garber is wonderful, but he's getting up there in age.  If he's growing tired of the role, who could blame him?  The storyline that they've set up now might work fairly well as an exit though.  And I'd bet the writers could finagle a way for Lily Stein to end up inheriting his half of the Firestorm role if they want.

I've wondered the same about VG. I'd hate to lose him, but him having a daughter now makes me wonder if Martin may decide to leave the team so he can be with her. Jax I think would have to leave as well if that happens.

Yeah, I think Rip is pretty safe. At least I hope so. Lotz is my main person, but after her it's Rip and Mick for me.

I don't want Amaya to leave. But, I'm down about all the comments from the EPs with how they are downplaying Amaya/Mick and now seem to be setting up Ray/Kendra 2.0 with her and Nate. So I don't know if I care anymore if she leaves.

[Starfish35]

I don't think Mick or Ray would leave unless Dominic Purcell or Brandon Routh wanted out. Victor Garber....yeah, I agree.  I'd hate to lose Stein, but I could see him wanting out sooner than the others.  

[Sakura12]

Well Robbie Amell seems to be begging to come back now that his movie career didn't take off. So he could essentially replace Stein. Not that I want him too, but if they want to keep Firestorm that would be a way. 

Edited January 25, 2017 by Sakura12

[Starfish35]

I'd rather Lily replace Martin than Robbie, in the hypothetical scenario that VG left the show.  Just so we could get another woman on the team.  

[Sakura12]

I definitely take another woman on the team over another man. But that's the reason I'm worried about Sara losing her Captain role when Rip comes back. These writers love their male heroes. I mean look at Amaya, she gets to do something sometimes, while Nate has been front and center for every storyline. Freaking Hawkgirl was just a love interest and Supergirl has become a guest star on her show so they can show off their male heroes in Mon-El and Guardian. 

[Lady Calypso]

10 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I definitely take another woman on the team over another man. But that's the reason I'm worried about Sara losing her Captain role when Rip comes back. These writers love their male heroes. I mean look at Amaya, she gets to do something sometimes, while Nate has been front and center for every storyline. Freaking Hawkgirl was just a love interest and Supergirl has become a guest star on her show so they can show off their male heroes in Mon-El and Guardian. 

This. Also, look at how they write their women on The Flash and Arrow. Legends and Supergirl have done a slightly better job, but this CW verse is still male-heavy and male-focused. 

[BaggythePanther]

On 1/21/2017 at 9:10 PM, squidprincess said:

I wonder if we won't see a temptation plot when it comes to the spear.  Grief has been a pretty steady subplot this season: Mick for Snart, Amaya for Rex, Sara for Laurel.  And well, Rip's grief over Miranda and Jonas was the driving emotional arc of season one.  Any one of those characters may have a hard time resisting using the spear, if it really can alter reality and bring loved ones back.

I read an interesting theory that maybe Stein might use the Spear of Destiny to make Lilly a permanent part of the timeline. As it stands now she's still a time aberration but with the Spear Stein wouldn't have to worry about reversing his mistake.

[Miss Dee]

Speaking of Lily, promotional pictures show that she's in the next episode. All of them but one show Rip with the Legion; the last one is of her and Mick conversing with Ray (I think) in the background.

[Proteus]

Spoilery MB interview. I guess Vixen and Nate get the steamy love scene. :(

http://ew.com/tv/2017/01/26/arrow-legends-tomorrow-crossovers/

[Miss Dee]

Dammit, my browser won't open the EW article (which has, BTW, the single most frustrating online website I've ever encountered, and that's saying something).

All I can say is they better start sellin' if they're expecting me to buy in. Take last night - there wasn't so much as a hint of anything between Amaya and Nate suggested, not even during the movie scene where they could have bantered or at least sat side by side. Are they going to contrive an offscreen two-year development again? You get one, LoT and you already used it!

But fine, whatever, they can be each other's great love all they want, just sell it in the story. But if the show uses Amaya's love for Nate as the catalyst for Mick to break bad again.... NO. JUST NO.

[Proteus]

I can't find the link, but PK says in another interview that Amaya wants Nate and the rejection Mick feels, since he opened himself up to Amaya, will push him over the edge. So disappointing they are going this route.

[Miss Dee]

SERIOUSLY?!!  DAMMIT!!

LoT, you were doing so well! Why you gotta play a fan favourite like that?!