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Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

formerlyfreedom

By formerlyfreedom
in Legends Of Tomorrow

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nksarmi

nksarmi

I have no idea where I read it and I'm almost positive it was more in reference to Supergirl than Titans, but I think it came down to "maybe" or "its possible" for cross-overs which means they have to leave the door open for them to exist in the same universe (I assume).  I think I read they want to see if Supergirl can stand on its own at first and then maybe down the line work in some other characters from this universe.  I read that as, if rating plummet, we'll find a way to work in Arrow or Flash. Of course, now they can have the amusement of putting ATOM on the same screen as Supergirl and they might not be able to resist.

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Lokiberry
Lokiberry

I love Mick, he's a great character, but he tried to kill Sara and steal the time drive which would have stranded the team in whatever time period they were in. He did this because he was unhappy on t

Sakura12
Sakura12

Why do writers think fans want to see huge conflict? When has that ever turned out well for any show? Does he not watch Arrow, does he not see how that is hurting the show?  I liked Legends becau

Lokiberry
Lokiberry

Sara was treated horrifically on Arrow, but since she came to LoT, she's received the best treatment of any female character in the flarrowverse. She's been given plenty of screen time. She hasn't bee

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

Supergirl is a known factor, it's a Berlanti production.  CBS stated at TCAs that they weren't going to allow crossovers just yet, they wanted to keep Supergirl to themselves for now.  MG also made the same comment, that CBS is keeping it separate for now.

 

All, I've ever heard about Titans is just massive speculation, nothing from DC/WB/TNT etc that would indicate it's something they've even talked about.  I have no doubt that DC/WB wants a massive TV presence with an extended universe but nothing right now indicates that Arrow/Flash/Spin-off/ will in fact connect (blatantly) to Titans or Supergirl.  I'm sure we'll get Easter Eggs and winks but until an actual producer or Network Exec goes on the record about cross overs, I'm not buying it.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

I think what I read about Titans was more of a "why its possible" not so much that its been discussed.  It seems like Supergirl has - at least - been discussed.  The things about Titans is that as I understand it - Roy and even Wally West were big Titans characters.  Flash is talking about introducing Wally at some point and Arrow just wrote Roy so they he could go to Titans if that show wants him.  So the question I guess is where does DC want these characters (Wally and Roy) because they seem to have a big say in who each show can use.

 

I think it would be wise if Titans wants to use a Red Arrow or Arsenal that they use the same actor - same if they want to use Slade.  But I guess there is no way to know if they will yet.

dtissagirl

dtissagirl

 Arrow just wrote Roy so they he could go to Titans if that show wants him.

 

This is just speculation, though. There's a different spec that says DC/Warner Movies wants to do live action Red Hood and the Outlaws. And unfortunately for the TV properties, Warner Movies is about 50 steps higher than Warner TV in the character grab totem.

 

I distinctly remember one journo from TCA [Tierney? Vlada? It was someone I usually trust] saying Berlanti's deal with CBS for Supergirl included crossovers.

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blixie

blixie

Well and there is also a 

The spoiler about DC yanking a character from Arrow

, and no amount of saying Colton Haynes is a huge star they were just lucky to get for 2 years convinces me that wasn't the case here. So yeah I think DC said Arsenal is for Titans, and I could definitely see them wanting the continuity of it being CH playing him, but I know zippo about comics and if Titans will require some kind of "origin" story for Arsenal, in which case they'll go with someone else. 

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

Yet, not quite The Opposite, if we can't have two different actors playing the same character on television and in the movies. 

 

To me it seems like DC is trying so hard to catch up to Marvel but have done none of the planning Marvel did. I get doing your own thing, but at least be consistent with it.  Most of Marvel's connections are Easter Eggs, not actual crossovers, that makes it fun without having to actually see everything on screen. 

Edited by Sakura12
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

This is just speculation, though. There's a different spec that says DC/Warner Movies wants to do live action Red Hood and the Outlaws. And unfortunately for the TV properties, Warner Movies is about 50 steps higher than Warner TV in the character grab totem.

 

I distinctly remember one journo from TCA [Tierney? Vlada? It was someone I usually trust] saying Berlanti's deal with CBS for Supergirl included crossover 

Yes, that was reported awhile back, when Supergirl was announced.

 

However at the recent TCAs CBS said they weren't willing to do a crossover just yet and MG confirmed it.  I imagine it might happen someday.  There's no timetable on it, for all we know Arrow/Flash will be gone long before CBS changes their mind.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

I honestly expect we WILL see Flash and/or ATOM on Supergirl sooner rather than later.  I say this because I actually don't expect Supergirl to do well on CBS.  I hate to say that - I really do.  But part of the reason I hoped the WW series (that was suppose to be on NBC I think) didn't air was because I thought it would doom a WW live action movie.  And I don't see superhero shows doing well on "the big three" networks as they don't seem willing to give a show like that the time it needs to build an audience. Just look how fast they gave up on Constantine.

 

And yes I know ABC had Louis and Clark for several years, but that's Superman. So anyway, while I hope Supergirl is a huge hit, I just don't know if CBS will be patient with it.  So if the ratings aren't what they want right from the start, I'm almost positive they will have a contingency plan to leverage the success of Arrow or Flash to build the audience.  And frankly, I just picture Flash or ATOM more with Supergirl than Oliver. 

 

blixie - yeah that's what I was thinking - especially with the announcement of Titan characters that only included one guy.  I think it would be a huge mistake if they moved Roy to Titans without using the same actor, but I guess that would establish rather or not they exist in the same universe or not. 

FurryFury

FurryFury

Honestly, the problem with Constantine isn't even the network, it was just that the pilot, at least, felt like it was filmed 20 years ago. Maybe 90's vibe works for some people, but it really felt anachronistic. Any show with such a pilot would fail, network support or not. FWIW, AoS is successful enough to most likely get at least 3 (if not 4, because syndication) seasons on ABC and a rumored spin-off.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

I don't really think of AoS as a superhero show, but I guess it kind of is.  I want to watch AoS, I just never seem to make the time to do it.  But I'm not a big tv person and I much prefer binge watching.  Of course, that still doesn't explain AoS because I bought someone in my house season one of DVD and still haven't watched it myself.

BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I have a weird relationship with AoS.  I have a hard time watching it week to week, instead I let it pile up on my DVR getting 2 or 3 or 4 (or more) and then binge watching them.  I always enjoy it when I do, but then I end up letting it pile up again.   I think the storylines work better back to back to back than with long weeks between them. 

Honestly, the problem with Constantine isn't even the network, it was just that the pilot, at least, felt like it was filmed 20 years ago. Maybe 90's vibe works for some people, but it really felt anachronistic. Any show with such a pilot would fail, network support or not. FWIW, AoS is successful enough to most likely get at least 3 (if not 4, because syndication) seasons on ABC and a rumored spin-off.

I watched the pilot and while it wasn't my thing, what really lost me for good was revealing at the end that the woman I thought was going to be the second lead in the show, wasn't even going to be in the show and I didn't feel like basically watching another pilot episode setting up the new dynamic.   They should have refilmed the pilot. 

 

Supergirl should be interesting.  CBS, ratings wise, is hard to please.  The've axed shows pulling in 9 million viewers.  I wonder if they plan to tap into an old school nostalgia factor because otherwise I'm not sure where they plan to pull viewers from.  Maybe if they get a younger demographic they will be more lenient about actual Nielsen numbers. 

 

I can see them turning to the Flash first for a crossover.  He's a well know character and could realistically keep up with Kara without having to first convince the audience that Oliver Queen and the Arrow could help Kara in some manner.  

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FurryFury

FurryFury

(edited)

I wouldn't be exactly shocked if The Flash's ratings (provided they don't drop) next season wouldn't be better than many of the shows on "big" networks. In fact, I think they are already on par with some stuff that has been renewed. Supergirl will be very lucky to still be around 2.0s next spring, probably lower, so the crossover wouldn't hurt.

 

Supergirl should be interesting.  CBS, ratings wise, is hard to please.

 

Their audience is rapidly aging. They used to have all these procedurals with high viewership, and they still do, but those people are getting older and thus become no longer relevant. I mean, NCIS has barely adjusted up to 2.0 this Tuesday, Criminal Minds is regularly slipping into 1.9 and the new NCIS spin-offs are hardly hits. New CSI spin-off is seemingly DOA, judging by reviews and ratings. This is why they've chosen Supergirl, I guess - they are desperate for young people to watch the network.

Edited by FurryFury
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I had the fun of telling my 4 nephews ages 13-18 about the spinoff -they and their friends watch but not religiously and had no clue about it.

First off they couldn't not believe anyone would give a show to Ray, they think he's stupid so I explained about the others on the show and with every name I mentioned they groaned and cringed and moaned about what a weird mash up. I also spoiled them on Sara not staying dead and they wanted clarification and asked me if I meant the good Canary. :)

Their final take on it was a worry the network is going screw up the timelines with having three shows to juggle.

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MarkHB

MarkHB

I also think this is DC/Time Warner's HILARIOUSLY DUMB way of ~doing it differently~ from Marvel/Disney. The MCU and the Marvel TV shows are all connected: same universe, all characters from all properties can potentially crossover. So DC/WB are going with THE OPPOSITE, because that's how they roll.

 

It plays true to the way DC has historically worked, though.  Marvel, at least since the dawn of the Silver Age, has been characterized by having a strong Editor-in-Chief, be it Stan Lee or Roy Thomas or Jim Shooter or whoever, who enforced tight continuity between the books (a building in New York got destroyed in Thor and was seen to be under repair in the next issue of Fantastic Four, for instance) and ensured a relatively consistent tone from one title to the next.  They even had a fairly strict "house style" for art, which is why pretty much any Marvel book from the 60's through the 80's that wasn't drawn by Steve Ditko looks like it was drawn by Jack Kirby.

 

DC, on the other hand, gives far more leeway to their individual group editors, and for most of their history hasn't even had someone with the Editor-in-Chief title.  (Dick Giordano was Executive Editor for years, but I have the feeling that that position has far less actual editorial control than an EIC does.)  Yes, there are certain parameters that must be adhered to (you can't have Batman's parents show up unless it turns out to be BS), but in general Denny O'Neil could run the Batman books his way and Mike Carlin could run the Superman books his way and everyone would be happy.  I'm sure there are various onerous corporate rules, etc., but AFAIK in general the creative talent at DC generally has more leeway than they do at Marvel.

 

That, then in my mind correlates directly to the difference in the respective universes.  AoS is effectively the "in-betweening" of the MCU; it exists to fill in some gaps and now to help set up The Inhumans movie, and it's tightly tied to the film universe.  DC and Warner Bros. are more prone to allow different creative teams to have their own take on the characters; that's how Gotham and Constantine and the Berlantiverse are all owned by different production companies and are doing their own thing, and the film universe is effectively "Earth-1" to the TV shows' "Earth-2". 

 

Which, I suppose, is a long-winded way to restate your point: that is, indeed, how they roll, and I'm willing to guess that the creative talent, at least, is happier with it.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Which, I suppose, is a long-winded way to restate your point: that is, indeed, how they roll, and I'm willing to guess that the creative talent, at least, is happier with it.

 

Yup, pretty much. Marvel oversees the scripts for all movies and TV shows, sometimes to zealot levels that make people like Edgar Wright leave Ant-Man about five minutes before it went into production. DC Comics not being a movie studio, they don't influence script nearly as much. They have Geoff Johns consulting on everything, but Warner Bros' scriptwriters have way way way more liberty than anyone signing to write anything for Marvel. And while Kevin Feige is pretty much an Editor-In-Chief for the MCU, Warner still hasn't been able to make David S. Goyer into that kind of figurehead for the DCU. And Warner likes to do that thing where they hire 2-3 different teams of writers for the same movie, and then frankenstein a final draft out of the several scripts. Which makes it even harder for DC to influence actual story.

quarks

quarks

They would probably ease off on the crossovers after s1 of Flash. There really has been a lot of them. I remember Buffy and Angel also crossing over very frequently in s1 of Angel, but then, almost nothing until s2 finale (and even then, it was a 1-second cameo).

 

That had more to do with Joss Whedon fighting with the network, but even with that, S2 did have the Fool for Love/Darla twin episodes.

 

I'm not sure they will ease off on the crossovers, since the ratings have been excellent: "The Brave and the Bold" is still one of the highest rated episodes of Arrow ever, and over on Flash, "Going Rogue" and "All Star Team Up" did decently, and "Flash vs. Arrow" got some of the best ratings of the season.  Even if the upcoming crossovers tank (and there's no reason to think they will), I think we will continue to see more crossovers next season.

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FurryFury

FurryFury

(edited)
even with that, S2 did have the Fool for Love/Darla twin episodes.

 

Well, I remember them, but there weren't proper crossovers, the ones that would need juggling timelines.

 

I'm not sure they will ease off on the crossovers, since the ratings have been excellent: "The Brave and the Bold" is still one of the highest rated episodes of Arrow ever, and over on Flash, "Going Rogue" and "All Star Team Up" did decently, and "Flash vs. Arrow" got some of the best ratings of the season.  Even if the upcoming crossovers tank (and there's no reason to think they will), I think we will continue to see more crossovers next season.

 

I dunno, I just never hear about same-universe shows continue to crossover that often later than s1. I don't watch Shonda shows, did GA and PP crossover that frequently? And I think NBC Chicago shows got pretty high ratings for their crossovers, but I've never about another "event nights" like that again (or maybe they just don't publicize it as much? Again, don't watch them, so I may be wrong).

 

Personally, I do like crossovers, or at least Felicity on Flash because I love Barry/Felicity and it's nice to see her without Oliver. I still think she's by far the best female character on Flash, even if she's just recurring, both Caitlyn and Iris are big piles of meh for me. But if the new spin-off will have "our" Sara, it would probably mean we'll get Quentyn (which I'm OK with) and/or Laurel (NO!). And maybe also Felicity, but it would be painful to watch because of all the awkwardness between her and Ray after the inevitable break-up. Oh, and they are clearly setting up Ray/Cisco friendship. I'm not hugely invested in Cisco or especially this relationship, though, so his presence in the crossover wouldn't be something must see for me.

Edited by FurryFury
Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

I don't watch them but Chicago Fire and Chicago PD had several crossovers this year.  There were even a few crossover events that included L&O:SVU.

 

As for Arrow/Flash/Spin-off, the EPs (MG, AJK and GB) have all gone on record about having crossovers next year.  Pedowitz has also gone on record about having a Flarrow type crossover on a yearly basis.  Like it or not, there's going to be crossovers between all 3 shows next season, including at least one big Flarrow crossover which will probably feature characters from the crossover.

Edited by Morrigan2575
BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I've enjoyed the crossovers but it's true, they've had a lot on Flash.  If you count the opening episode they've already had 4 and a number of mentions in other non crossover episodes and the crossovers aren't done for the year.  A fourth of the series (I think) will have been crossovers.  Compare that to Arrow where we've had one...though if you want to get technical we've been stuck in crossover limbo with Palmer Island all year long.  Flash comes out better in my opinion but I get why viewers not invested in Arrow would be start to be frustrated.

 

They told us that you wouldn't need to watch Flash to know what is going on with Arrow but did they ever promise the same for Flash?  Story wise, sure, but they've kind of made knowing the characters important. 

 

I'm willing to invest my time in the new show but I do hope they pay closer attention to the timing of episodes. 

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kismet

kismet

In case anyone's interested, I created a "what will the spinoff be called?" poll here, over in the Flash forum.

 

I wonder if Berlanti has a full-time script continuity coordinator on-staff, to make sure that the crossover appearances (which would be written by the other show's staff) actually sync up.

Perhaps they should just hire a writer that can act as well to be the continuity script coordinator & the Floater. Like on the Office, when they had many of the writers actually act on the show. That type of relationship/connection between the writers room & the set makes for a closer/tighter script. A actor/writer could possibly be the best position to ensure continuity of character, plot & tone across all 3 shows. Of course, that would go against what has been rumoured about the Floater already, but it might be a better idea.

tv echo

tv echo

Speaking at the Cape Comic Con, Shipp talked about how the upcoming spinoffs will expand the DC/CW Universe during a Q&A. Although, the title of the new show was not asked of him directly, he did refer to it as 'Legends' when talking about it.

 

He also revealed that the show will be a miniseries consisting of thirteen episodes. It was previously rumoured that the show will premiere during midseason next year, much like Agent Carter was to Agents of SHIELD.

Has John Wesley Shipp Revealed The Official Title of The Upcoming ARROW/FLASH Spinoff? [includes VIDEO]

By Ayush - 4/19/2015

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/comics/dc_comics/news/?a=118929

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tv echo

tv echo

Some things from David Ramsey's panel at Calgary today --

 

DR kinda spilled the possible title of the spinoff show. He keeps saying Legends when he talks about the show.

https://twitter.com/CiViiLy/status/589863511544606720

 

Spinoff title is "legends of 'something'" apparently

https://twitter.com/itsalwaysfour/status/589857708834066432

Sounds like they really are using "Legends" as part of the Spinoff title - either that, or DR's comments were another deliberate fake-out.

kismet

kismet

It's possible that they're using Legends, or Legends could be the in house "working title".

Better than the working title of "the Atom"...

 

No offense, but I hope they go with a different name or legends is only part of the name. Legends implies well known people whose story or name has lived on for many years/generations & so far the characters they have named are not what I would think of as "legends". Batman, Superman, Ras are legends. Examples outside of comics could include Robin Hood, Zorro, Dracula the list could go on. Plus I feel its not original - there have been other TV shows named Legends. The movie "Legends of the fall" was also what I first thought of when I heard it. Lastly, its also the name of many a bar or restaurant, I think its actually the name of a local strip club.

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