All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[Claire85]

4 hours ago, BigBeagle said:

Oooh, good question. My knee-jerk reaction is that he would have stabbed anybody who walked in, but then again, why was he still in the room? Waiting on someone? Like Carter?

OK, I'll be over in the corner, shivering.

My thought was exactly, if he wasn’t waiting for Carter why not run immediately? Lucy had been lying there awhile. 

[MVFrostsMyPie]

I think yeah, he was waiting specifically for Carter. Because it was the two of them who did an LP on him and he said they took his clothes and stabbed him or something. Although I wonder if he would have stabbed Malik too since he also helped at some point. 

Also, I like how there was just one bloody footprint. Logistically it doesn't make sense. What, he made one perfect bloody footprint, picked up his foot and wiped the blood off before setting it on the ground again and just walked out? ;)

Also how creepy for poor Lucy that while she's laying on the ground bleeding out, he's just standing there in the corner, waiting for Carter. I guess even trying to make some noise by kicking a bed or tray or something to warn him as he walked in would have been too late.

[Drapers4thWife]

Quote

I'm pretty sure he was just going to stab whoever walked in. I think he was just there because he was having a breakdown and hadn't thought to run yet.

I think he was waiting for Carter. When Carter was helping Luka with the kid's spinal tap in a later episode, he had a flashback to doing the spinal tap on Sobriki (which was traumatic, because Sobriki woke up from sedation halfway through). Carter than told the hospital shrink that he thought Sobriki interpreted the spinal tap, in his schizophrenic mind, as them stabbing him. This is borne out in "All in the Family" when Sobriki is being treated after being hit by the car (after fleeing the hospital after the stabbing) and responds to Abby trying to give him Haldol with, "Don't stick me! They wouldn't stop sticking me!" and he later starts yelling to his wife that Carter and Lucy were trying to steal his internal organs. 

[Bastet]

I've always assumed his choice of victims was deliberate, because, per his psychosis, they were a mortal danger to him, and he had to hurt them before they could continue hurting him. 

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

I've always assumed his choice of victims was deliberate, because, per his psychosis, they were a mortal danger to him, and he had to hurt them before they could continue hurting him. 

I think Sobricki probably wanted to get Carter, but there's no way he knew that Carter was going to be the next person in the room.  After all, he was supposed to have a psych consult; it could've easily been DeRaad who was next to come in.  Also, Sobricki was so delusional, I'm not sure he was cognitively able to wait for Carter.  I think he stabbed Lucy, and, for whatever reason, was still in the room until Carter came in.  It was just fortuitous (for him, not Carter) that the other person he blamed for attacking him happened to come into the exam room before anyone else.  It could've just as easily have been DeRaad, a nurse, a housekeeper.  Perhaps, since he was standing in the shadows, he made sure it was Carter before attacking, but, he would've had to have attacked anyone who discovered Lucy if he was going to get away.

And. yes, the single footprint wasn't realistic, there would've been multiple footprints as well as blood  from the knife he carried out of the exam room and put on top of the storage cart.  It would've been dripping since it was still quite bloody when Abby discovered it.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

think Sobricki probably wanted to get Carter, but there's no way he knew that Carter was going to be the next person in the room.  After all, he was supposed to have a psych consult; it could've easily been DeRaad who was next to come in.  Also, Sobricki was so delusional, I'm not sure he was cognitively able to wait for Carter.  I think he stabbed Lucy, and, for whatever reason, was still in the room until Carter came in. 

Except he was hiding in the darkened exam room in the corner. Was Sobricki psychotic? Absolutely. But I do think he was aware of his targets and agree he did focus upon Carter and Lucy since he did tell his wife he had to defend himself against them since they were trying to steal his internal organs.

Carter flashing back to that LP showed how traumatized Sobricki became. While crazy, I do think he knew exactly whom he was waiting for.

[debraran]

15 hours ago, Claire85 said:

My thought was exactly, if he wasn’t waiting for Carter why not run immediately? Lucy had been lying there awhile. 

My reaction watching it was it was a busy and loud time with the music (agreed with Weaver on this one)  for the ER and he was afraid but also aware of the people around him.  Maybe the loud music and commotion kept him in. Later when Carter said he felt guilty, the patient when he was trying to do a lumbar puncture said the needle felt like it was "stabbing" him, the psychiatrist said he probably did feel that way, but no one was too blame for what happened later. For him to know Carter was going to come in was a bit much, it could have been anyone. It did make for good drama though.

I saw an article where some thought the show and others like it, portray people with schizophrenia as violent but they also showed some that weren't. I remember Carol helping a mother keep her baby who went off her meds for the pregnancy, etc.  Lucy found a child who was violent had side effects from his meds and showed how we need to look more at drug interactions. I lived near a neighbor who had a daughter always off her meds. She would walk around and talk about stories that would get crazy but never violent in the 30 years most knew her. Just hated her meds and wouldn't stay on. If someone watches a show and thinks that any disease or portrayal is the "norm" you can't help that, but I think ER did show a wide spectrum within the context they had.

Edited April 13, 2018 by debraran

[Drapers4thWife]

That's why I'm suspicious Sobriki should have been eligible for conditional release. He deliberately went and stole a butcher knife from the doctors' lounge and hid it somewhere on his person  - which shows thought and deliberate planning - and he was cognizant enough to lie when Lucy caught him there (claiming he was just looking for coffee). Then he stood in silent wait for Carter (or somebody) rather than fleeing after stabbing Lucy (which would have been easy with the chaos of the party). He didn't suddenly snap and just start attacking Lucy or whoever was nearby. 

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, Drapers4thWife said:

That's why I'm suspicious Sobriki should have been eligible for conditional release. He deliberately went and stole a butcher knife from the doctors' lounge and hid it somewhere on his person  - which shows thought and deliberate planning - and he was cognizant enough to lie when Lucy caught him there (claiming he was just looking for coffee). Then he stood in silent wait for Carter (or somebody) rather than fleeing after stabbing Lucy (which would have been easy with the chaos of the party).

Yes, but all this was done because of an undiagnosed and untreated psychiatric illness.  That's what creates the mens rea issue for criminal sentencing and kicks him into psychiatric confinement, and it's what allows for conditional release once the illness is treated, understood, and controlled.

[Claire85]

I always wondered why Carter was not notified of Sobricki’s release. 

[debraran]

I just watched Gallant and Weaver out in the  rain storm and lightening, saving the pregnant woman who was in an ambulance that was hit with live wires on it.  A little over the top but I liked the combo of Gallant and Weaver, both kind of "military" and both did a believable job in the trenches. I don't remember him as much from 10 years ago and will enjoy (until his exit) his scenes in the future.

Watching Greene talk to a kid who was trapped in a river with his brother and almost drowned. His stepfather and mother were angry at him for taking his 6 year old brother and were beyond cold even after Green saved them both. The talk he gave the older brother about adults not always being right, not always saying the right things, that he was not to hate himself, etc., it got to me, I cried. It's funny what will and wont get to you. That hug  he gave him.....miss the great acting of that early group on ER.

Edited April 15, 2018 by debraran

[debraran]

On 4/9/2018 at 11:00 PM, doodlebug said:

Yes, it's a very good scene.  Mark and Elizabeth separate and are living apart when she finds out his tumor has returned, his prognosis is terrible and he's getting chemo.  She expresses her fears to Romano, asking him if she really should return to her husband only to watch him die.  Romano listens to what she has to say and lays it out in simple terms; telling her what she already knows.

Yep, it's replaced by the Jumbo Mart for reasons unknown.  

BTW, Frances Sternhagen (Gamma) is still alive and 88 years old.  She was still acting as of a few years ago.

 

That was a very good scene, watched it while taking a break in my Sunday cleaning. They really hadn't been apart that long, they made Elizabeth a little selfish at times, but I know it ends up well.  I also liked how Romano told her to go to Hawaii, didn't matter when she'd be back and when he said if there's anything he could do, she said "pray". He said not a strong point for him but he would make an exception. Actually during these episodes, talking about Mark, working on a young girl with cancer, angry how the body turns on itself, showed his more human side.

Edited April 16, 2018 by debraran

[BooksRule]

I just saw the weirdest goof (I guess that is what you would call it) on the season 11 episode 'Try Carter' (the Fourth of July episode).  The new intern (Ray?) was in the Jumbo Mart with Abby and he was getting some items for a cook-out.  He picked up charcoal, some hot dog buns, and then--this is the weird part:  As they walked down an aisle, you could see that it was mainly stocked with what looked like boxes of cereal.  When they got to the end of the aisle, Ray reached deep into one shelf (you could only see from an angle at the end of the aisle and could only see his hand reaching out of sight) and he pulled out a pack of bratwurst.  (I know that's what is was, because they both remarked on him buying brats for his cook-out.)  No refrigerated meat/dairy case, just the -- probably warm -- cereal aisle.  I know this is fiction and they probably filmed it that way to save time in having them walk down another aisle, but it struck me as so odd that I had to re-watch it about four times.  

[debraran]

25 minutes ago, BooksRule said:

I just saw the weirdest goof (I guess that is what you would call it) on the season 11 episode 'Try Carter' (the Fourth of July episode).  The new intern (Ray?) was in the Jumbo Mart with Abby and he was getting some items for a cook-out.  He picked up charcoal, some hot dog buns, and then--this is the weird part:  As they walked down an aisle, you could see that it was mainly stocked with what looked like boxes of cereal.  When they got to the end of the aisle, Ray reached deep into one shelf (you could only see from an angle at the end of the aisle and could only see his hand reaching out of sight) and he pulled out a pack of bratwurst.  (I know that's what is was, because they both remarked on him buying brats for his cook-out.)  No refrigerated meat/dairy case, just the -- probably warm -- cereal aisle.  I know this is fiction and they probably filmed it that way to save time in having them walk down another aisle, but it struck me as so odd that I had to re-watch it about four times.  

I'll have to look for that then. I see a lot now, some review sites for ER, that tell a synopsis will have "goofs" too. Clocks changing in a few second to hours later, lockers opening to the left, than the right, hair developing highlights overnight. Things being missing on counters or cupboards as they are talking (obviously filmed a different times and put together)  I caught Lucy's throat moving as they put the sheet over her head but usually I am not looking at the little things. That sometimes comes as you watch the same show over and over. I see fans a lot in the parking lot, crew members in reflections of glass, but hey, it's not usually too obvious  Bratwurst in the cereal aisle though......eww. ; )

[BooksRule]

I found the Fourth of July clip at the Jumbo Mart.  It's poor quality and it's dubbed in Spanish, but you can see him getting the packet of brats off the shelf.  :)

[MVFrostsMyPie]

More nitpicking - I had talked about the perfect bloody footprint from the Lucy/Carter stabbing episode earlier. Just watched again tonight and I don't know why it just took until now to realize Sobricki was actually wearing his socks & sneakers when we see him coming up behind Carter. So unless he took his shoes/socks off before running, the bloody footprint makes even less sense.

[debraran]

I'll have to have my daughter who is honing her Spanish watch that clip.  The things that bug some who notice cups going in different hands in different shots, empty cups (which is common on all shows) etc. don't bother me. I do wonder why shots with cameras or wind fans etc couldn't have been edited. But it was a weekly show with a lot of takes, maybe they just didn't have the time or felt the focus would be on the trauma not the errors.

I read this the other day, usually the writing/penmanship is awful, but might check it out in future episodes and see if I can see something. Trivia: Every episode has the patient list by the nurse's station. On the patient list, different names are mentioned, like Marguiles or Tierney. They put these names there as a spoof of the show.

Edited April 19, 2018 by debraran

[RedbirdNelly]

I'm at the early episodes of Season 14. There was one line goof that I caught:

Neela is in surgery (nearly dies); everyone is concerned. Abby comes back to the ER to update the crew. She tells them that they are closing. Gates right then asks "is she awake yet?" and the response is no. I think the response should be "I just said he was closing? so, no, you idiot, Neela is not awake right now."

[Racj82]

I'm going to end up way behind in my current streaming practices but ER has got me hooked again. Thanks Hulu.

I'm currently in the middle of season 3. The Gant arc is concluding and it's hard to watch. Carter, in particular, was such weasel in this arc. Leaving Gant hanging during the holiday to spend more fucking time with Keaton somehow pissed me off more than him leaving him hanging with Anspaugh. I expect nothing different from Benton.

Susan leaves and the show is literally not missing her at all. I still have a uber crush on Stringfield and her voice is one of the sexiest things ever but I still don't miss her. It still bugs me that she randomly bounced from the show twice. I didn't know she had only signed like a three year contract when she came back. But, if I'm remembering correctly, she promoted to chief attending and then left right after that. I was like, just leave, after that.

Chuny and Mark...i don't hate it this time around. I'm happy to see Mark smiling for a change.

I'v seen some comments about not buying into the Mark and Doug friendship. I do but I see it differently now in that Mark being Doug's boss and Doug being a rule breaker and kind of a fuck up were always going to put them at odds. But, the underlying love is always there.

Why does Carol have such shitty interactions with other women? Especially with Jeannie. I don't get why she had such a bug up her butt about about Boulet.

[doodlebug]

10 hours ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

More nitpicking - I had talked about the perfect bloody footprint from the Lucy/Carter stabbing episode earlier. Just watched again tonight and I don't know why it just took until now to realize Sobricki was actually wearing his socks & sneakers when we see him coming up behind Carter. So unless he took his shoes/socks off before running, the bloody footprint makes even less sense.

Later in the episode when Sobriki is brought back in after being hit by the car, he is barefoot, you can see his bloody left foot as Yosh, Abby and Chen are working on him when he is brought into the trauma room. I think we also had the cops comment he was naked when struck. I suppose we could presume he removed his socks and shoes before leaving after the stabbings, but it seems like someone would've found them in that case. It also doesn't explain why there was enough blood on his foot to make a single distinct fully formed footprint but nothing else.

Edited April 19, 2018 by doodlebug

[RedbirdNelly]

1 hour ago, Racj82 said:

 

Why does Carol have such shitty interactions with other women? Especially with Jeannie. I don't get why she had such a bug up her butt about about Boulet.

I think the Jeannie thing was because of Jeannie being a PA and they were using her in a new role. So she was blurring the lines between nurses and doctors--and at times (when they first but heads) Jeannie is very "that's a nurses job" so Carol as a solid nurse resents that. A physician assistant is a nurse that then gets additional training allowing them to broaden their scope of practice. So I think it was some professional friction. Not defending Carol but I think that's where it started.

[starri]

55 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

A physician assistant is a nurse that then gets additional training allowing them to broaden their scope of practice.

You're describing a Nurse Practitioner.  A Physician Assistant goes through what is basically an accelerated version of medical school and does not do a formal residency (although some hospitals are starting to offer fellowships for PAs in certain specialties).  They are restricted in their scope of practice relative to a physician, usually require some supervision by a fully-licensed physician, and have some limits on the types of medications they're allowed to prescribe.  In practice, it's similar to being a resident, except you make more money and don't really advance to becoming an attending.

[RedbirdNelly]

14 minutes ago, starri said:

You're describing a Nurse Practitioner.  A Physician Assistant goes through what is basically an accelerated version of medical school and does not do a formal residency (although some hospitals are starting to offer fellowships for PAs in certain specialties).  They are restricted in their scope of practice relative to a physician, usually require some supervision by a fully-licensed physician, and have some limits on the types of medications they're allowed to prescribe.  In practice, it's similar to being a resident, except you make more money and don't really advance to becoming an attending.

no, I'm describing both. It depends on your state. But NPs and PAs are very similar; just that the licensure requirements for NPs go through the nursing board and the PA traditionally goes through the medical board--hence the old must be employed by a physician requirement that a lot of states are dropping. They often can do just about the same thing but again varies by state.  If you are a nurse and want to expand your scope, you have the option of becoming an NP or a PA--just have to follow whatever your state requires.

[doodlebug]

16 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

no, I'm describing both. It depends on your state. But NPs and PAs are very similar; just that the licensure requirements for NPs go through the nursing board and the PA traditionally goes through the medical board--hence the old must be employed by a physician requirement that a lot of states are dropping. They often can do just about the same thing but again varies by state.  If you are a nurse and want to expand your scope, you have the option of becoming an NP or a PA--just have to follow whatever your state requires.

Boy, don't ever tell a nurse practitioner that he or she is similar to a physician assistant!  Or vice versa!  They are two distinct career choices and both are licensed by the state and both can write prescriptions.  The most clear cut distinction is that a physician assistant is just that.  He or she must have a supervising physician listed on his or her medical license and cannot work without that relationship in place. Where I practice, a physician assistant can only see patients if the supervising physician is on the premises and available to see patients as needed.  However, nurse practitioners can and do set up their own practices.  They may refer to or collaborate with doctors for complicated cases; but they are considered independent practitioners.  They generally can have a lot more autonomy in their scope of practice.  In the last years of ER, Sam was studying to become a nurse anesthetist, a CRNA, which is a kind of nurse practitioner.  I know several who have their own practices and contract out to plastic surgeons, podiatrist and ophthalmologists to do anesthesia for their surgery.

Carol was resentful of virtually any female practitioner whose skill level and training exceeded hers.  Remember how crappy she was to Maggie Doyle when she found out they were from the same neighborhood but Maggie went to medical school?  Carol had a very big chip on her shoulder, feeling that staff nurses didn't get enough credit (or compensation) for the jobs they did and she often took it out on other women.  Not her best quality.

A PA doesn't have to have a nursing degree.  Most have a regular bachelor's and then attend PA school for 1-2 years to pass the licensure exam.  Meanwhile nurse practitioners must have a bachelor's in nursing before pursuing their advance degree which usually includes a Master's.

Edited April 19, 2018 by doodlebug

[starri]

It's been my experience that NPs and PAs also tend to go with different career tracks.  I've seen both in primary care, but I've seen a lot of psychiatric NPs and almost every ER I worked in during medical school had a fair number of PAs.  My hospital also employs a few Nurse Midwives, although their service never seems particularly busy.  At the hospital where I did my third year rotations, some of the surgical services had PAs to help with floor management.  The surgical specialities that didn't have residents, like Plastics, Ortho, and Neurosurg also used them as assistants in the OR.

[slasherboy]

23 hours ago, BooksRule said:

I just saw the weirdest goof (I guess that is what you would call it) on the season 11 episode 'Try Carter' (the Fourth of July episode).  The new intern (Ray?) was in the Jumbo Mart with Abby and he was getting some items for a cook-out.  He picked up charcoal, some hot dog buns, and then--this is the weird part:  As they walked down an aisle, you could see that it was mainly stocked with what looked like boxes of cereal.  When they got to the end of the aisle, Ray reached deep into one shelf (you could only see from an angle at the end of the aisle and could only see his hand reaching out of sight) and he pulled out a pack of bratwurst.  (I know that's what is was, because they both remarked on him buying brats for his cook-out.)  No refrigerated meat/dairy case, just the -- probably warm -- cereal aisle.  I know this is fiction and they probably filmed it that way to save time in having them walk down another aisle, but it struck me as so odd that I had to re-watch it about four times.  

I saw that too and did a double take.  Then re-watched it a couple of times to make sure I heard and saw it right.  I did.  Brats on the cereal shelf friends!  Get yours now!

[voiceover]

"Sleepless in Chicago": A great ep for a number of reasons.

1. Carter stays with the English teacher, reading to him until the old man passes away.  The patient (played by Sanford Meisner, a famous acting teacher) had no voice box, but such a fabulously expressive countenance, that you can't bear to watch his pain, but you can't look away.

2. Hathaway is turned down as a candidate for foster parent, once the news about her suicide attempt comes up in the background check. Distraught, she goes to see Doug, who says all the right things...but turns down the intimacy it's very clear she's offering.  (See, Christopher from Gilmore Girls?? *That's* how you treat an old love who's emotionally distraught!  You take her home!  You don't answer the booty call.)

[Racj82]

I'm not really one for pointing out mistakes or nitpicking but something really stuck out to me. I swear in season 4 episode 4 when the bough breaks at a little after 7 minutes, Kerry enters the scene to address Doug but she doesn't call him Doug. She calls him Mark. I had to rewind it a few times to make sure i wasn't crazy. 

Anyway, rewatch thoughts.

I into season four right now.

I had no memory of how long Mark's post attack meltdown lasted. It's going on for a while. I thought he would be making more steps forward after throwing the gun away.

I felt bad for the guy Jeannie basically dumped to get back at Al. In my mind, he left because he couldn't fully let go of his fear with aids but he was all in. She just bailed. I understand it's probably easier to be with someone going through what you are going through but it still sucked.

I love the Kerry/Jeannie friendship. Just really sweet and Kerry was so protective of her.

It's funny to me that we spent a whole year of Carol trying to be a doctor only for her to realize she was great where she was. That was a lot of work to come to that conclusion. 

I also cracked up at how much Doug looked like House from the show with the long coat and his limp with the aide of a cane in season 3 for a couple of episode. Kerry's dry "that's not funny" when she thought he was mocking her limp next to her made me chuckle.

[RedbirdNelly]

10 hours ago, Racj82 said:

 

I also cracked up at how much Doug looked like House from the show with the long coat and his limp with the aide of a cane in season 3 for a couple of episode. Kerry's dry "that's not funny" when she thought he was mocking her limp next to her made me chuckle.

that part made me laugh out loud. It was a nice detail.

I'm watching season 14--and in the book of "random details"--I noticed the spoon Neela is feeding baby Joe with is the same one I still own. Oh, nice, touch, ER using real spoons. I know, meaningless detail. In the same episode Morris' dad dies which is kind of sad. I'm not a big Morris fan but they did gradually make him competent (no reason given) and nicer.

[tallykat]

Well, Season 2 is in the can for me and I've started into Season 3. I wanted to write my eval of 2 first, but I'm afraid some of my comments may carry across seasons.

I remembered Jeanie and Benton being more of a thing. They seemed to connect post-Mom's death, which was at the end of Season 1, but almost right after Season 2 starts, they break up. There's a lot of talk about them spending time together, but they only show the one scene outside of the hospital. Peter is such a hard person to read. On the one hand, he swears he is over Jeanie and I could accept that except he keeps behaving like he's all pissed at her for leaving him. It seemed that every other episode was Jeanie telling him to get over it and him saying that he was. And then the anvil. I guess there was never any doubt that Peter would get a clean bill of health, although we don't know that at the end of Season 2. It was groundbreaking to have a minor character with HIV, but no way would a major character and a surgeon have survived that diagnosis. 

And speaking of surgery: Peter's rise and fall. I really enjoyed the arc with his attachment to the vascular surgeon and his research. And Carter always being in the right place with the right answer. But then Carter. His behavior is often more like a star high school student than a fourth year medical student. He seems like he would be a notch down from Deb Chen, not quite so go get 'em, but not the kind of guy who would be looking for a dark closet to have a make out session with a junior med student. And then the whole "I got placed where I want so I'm going AWOL to a luxury hotel to get drunk on champagne" fiasco. I'm not asking for him to be a perfect goody two shoes--at least maybe show him doing a Doug and coming in the next morning in questionable shape, not leave for a three-hour lunch. I also thought that hand-holding a sick kid was no reason to miss your medical school graduation. She was just waiting for a liver. She was still alive after the ceremony. Yes, Carter, you *do* have someplace to be!

I didn't like Doug the first time around and man, I am liking him even less this time. Yes, you have your Hell and High Water. But he's another character with a Jekyll and Hyde personality. How can he care so little about who he takes to bed and then so much about a little boy with AIDS that he will do anything to, to, well, to what? Certainly not make the little boy's life easier. But the idea is that he plunges head-first into emotional involvement with these kids. Chewing out parents who aren't perfect...wait...maybe he tries to compensate for his father's bad parenting by doling out his intense faux-parenting to his patients for a few hours at a time. But in the end, he abandons them as well. Although he did have to be dragged kicking and screaming away from the little Asian boy.

Chloe returns to claim little Susie. Good riddance, I say. I'm glad Grandpa stepped up because for a while there I was starting to worry about little Susie. I expected we would have the episode where Susan just left her at home and forgot to bring her in. Babies are so hard to incorporate into a show. Knowing how many babies are yet to be born, I look forward to being refreshed on how they are treated. Maybe the Cook County Hospital day care is a 24-hour operation.

And then Shep. Poor Shep. Thank you, Shep, for showing us how far we have not come in the past 20 years. The show with the abandoned children where in the end he is shouting: "I'm not a racist!" could have been plucked down into a current drama. I really like him and Carol together. He was funny and I think he really loved her. I felt so bad for him when he was going off about how best to kill yourself with her standing there. And apologized later. I was sorry that he couldn't stay on the show. It was sad to see the effects of Raul's death take it toll on him and his relationship with Carol. They would have made a great couple.

Did I leave anyone out? Oh right, Mark and Jen and Rachel, the weapon of choice. I know a lot of doctors who have normal families. This one was doomed from the start. Jen is dead to me. From the moment she took that job in Milwaukee, I knew the relationship was doomed. Good on her. I hope you're happy with your lawyer friend. Be nice to Mark. At least he was faithful. And Mark, you don't have to be Doug and you don't have to be a priest. There's room in there for something that fits you. But here's a hint: It's not going to be Susan.

[Bastet]

37 minutes ago, tallykat said:

I also thought that hand-holding a sick kid was no reason to miss your medical school graduation.

That was a bit of a dick move to his family, but, then again, they've pulled some dick moves on him.  But a graduation ceremony is as much for the graduate's family as it is for the graduate (assuming they're in the graduate's life, of course).  It was no financial hardship for them to put Carter through med school, no, but they still did.  And his parents aren't the best at showing it, but they do love him and they're proud of him.  And then there's Gamma!  But he just left them all sitting there? 

We hadn't yet met his parents at the time, and didn't know the degree of dysfunction, so back then I thought it was rude to deny them the experience of seeing him graduate.  Looking back, knowing all the Carter family drama, I still think he should have gone, but it doesn't bother me like it did initially.

[debraran]

 

4 hours ago, Bastet said:

That was a bit of a dick move to his family, but, then again, they've pulled some dick moves on him.  But a graduation ceremony is as much for the graduate's family as it is for the graduate (assuming they're in the graduate's life, of course).  It was no financial hardship for them to put Carter through med school, no, but they still did.  And his parents aren't the best at showing it, but they do love him and they're proud of him.  And then there's Gamma!  But he just left them all sitting there? 

We hadn't yet met his parents at the time, and didn't know the degree of dysfunction, so back then I thought it was rude to deny them the experience of seeing him graduate.  Looking back, knowing all the Carter family drama, I still think he should have gone, but it doesn't bother me like it did initially.

I think they were trying to show Carter's heart was always with the patient and kids and not about pomp and circumstance.  His parents were always distant, his Mom after his brother died even more so. He made a comment once years would go by with very much contact. Gamma, he loved but she wasn't too hot on him becoming a doctor, but no reason to miss it because of that. I just felt he didn't care that much about it and thought it was kind of sweet.

I agree, re Doug, I thought he was a jerk back in the day but thought more "rebel" at the time. Now he seemed like a conceited, inconsiderate jerk. ; )  If he wasn't considered handsome, I don't see Carol liking him because he never did anything for her (as she pointed out on many occasions) but she was there for him.  Mark was a nice balance, they could be "boys" playing ball or having lunch but he screwed him later too. I thought it was hysterical they went from pretty much living together and planning a child to faxing each other.  Yes, let's give Jerry your 4 page letter to fax in between patients.

I'm up to after Green's death and it's kind of all over the place. Kovac is all of a sudden a drunken sex addict and Abby is getting on my nerves big time. Carter is still around but it isn't the same. Still enjoying it but the first half of it's run was the best. I am seeing things I don't remember before.  Romano was on the roof with a resident who was angry because he couldn't help him in surgery while assisting and he made a minor but permanent mistake. After he left Romano looked over the ledge like he wanted to jump and threw his surgical cap over. Kind of significant to the end of his career as he knew it. Why no one saw his depression, his doctor especially, anyone who went through that should talk to someone.   I still think they wasted that character.  Greg House from the famous HOUSE tv show was just as bad, if not worse in his racist, homophobic and anti-Semitic slurs but he was not short and bald. I feel it's Romano's looks that had some dislike him. I hated the unkind comments from both and liked when both docs showed a soft side, but Romano actually did more often.

Edited April 23, 2018 by debraran

[Racj82]

6 hours ago, debraran said:

 

I think they were trying to show Carter's heart was always with the patient and kids and not about pomp and circumstance.  His parents were always distant, his Mom after his brother died even more so. He made a comment once years would go by with very much contact. Gamma, he loved but she wasn't too hot on him becoming a doctor, but no reason to miss it because of that. I just felt he didn't care that much about it and thought it was kind of sweet.

I agree, re Doug, I thought he was a jerk back in the day but thought more "rebel" at the time. Now he seemed like a conceited, inconsiderate jerk. ; )  If he wasn't considered handsome, I don't see Carol liking him because he never did anything for her (as she pointed out on many occasions) but she was there for him.  Mark was a nice balance, they could be "boys" playing ball or having lunch but he screwed him later too. I thought it was hysterical they went from pretty much living together and planning a child to faxing each other.  Yes, let's give Jerry your 4 page letter to fax in between patients.

I'm up to after Green's death and it's kind of all over the place. Kovac is all of a sudden a drunken sex addict and Abby is getting on my nerves big time. Carter is still around but it isn't the same. Still enjoying it but the first half of it's run was the best. I am seeing things I don't remember before.  Romano was on the roof with a resident who was angry because he couldn't help him in surgery while assisting and he made a minor but permanent mistake. After he left Romano looked over the ledge like he wanted to jump and threw his surgical cap over. Kind of significant to the end of his career as he knew it. Why no one saw his depression, his doctor especially, anyone who went through that should talk to someone.   I still think they wasted that character.  Greg House from the famous HOUSE tv show was just as bad, if not worse in his racist, homophobic and anti-Semitic slurs but he was not short and bald. I feel it's Romano's looks that had some dislike him. I hated the unkind comments from both and liked when both docs showed a soft side, but Romano actually did more often.

The show was always consistent with show that Carter's heart was always with the patients. Missing his graduation to help ease a scared patient is just more of that.

Just watched Ramano's first episode. Of course his first real lines are about Chris Rock being able to say the n word over and over when he can't. Of course he is THAT guy.

[starri]

18 hours ago, tallykat said:

I also thought that hand-holding a sick kid was no reason to miss your medical school graduation

I was pretty ambivalent about going to my own.  It was partially because they elected to schedule it REALLY late (like, two weeks before I started my residency) and partially because it was going against a very long-planned vacation my husband and I had been saving for for 4 years.  We eventually ate the price difference in moving our vacation up, and I guess I'm glad I attended, but in all honesty, being forced into it left a rotten taste in my mouth.

I viewed it like this:  I attended my high school graduation for my parents, my college graduation for my friends, and this one for myself and my husband.  I don't think he had strong feelings about it either.

[doodlebug]

38 minutes ago, starri said:

I was pretty ambivalent about going to my own.  It was partially because they elected to schedule it REALLY late (like, two weeks before I started my residency) and partially because it was going against a very long-planned vacation my husband and I had been saving for for 4 years.  We eventually ate the price difference in moving our vacation up, and I guess I'm glad I attended, but in all honesty, being forced into it left a rotten taste in my mouth.

I viewed it like this:  I attended my high school graduation for my parents, my college graduation for my friends, and this one for myself and my husband.  I don't think he had strong feelings about it either.

I went to mine because it was important to my parents.  And, it was a last chance to see some med school friends since we were all heading our separate ways (attended a large Midwestern university where commencement was held in the football stadium and the dental students traditionally provided a keg in the stands for all of the allied medical professions).  As for Carter, it made sense in the context of the character that he would choose to stay with a patient.  And, from what we saw of his parents and their dysfunctional family later on, I can see why he was always reaching out for connection with others and why he might not have felt much obligation to please his parents.  He even said the graduation party they were throwing was for his father's friends, not his.  I seem to recall Benton saying he missed his to work, too.  That felt a lot less likely to me due to how close he was to his mother and how thrilled she would've been to see her 'Petey' get his MD.  She reminded me a little of my mother; wild horses would not have kept that woman from my graduation.

[RedbirdNelly]

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I went to mine because it was important to my parents.  And, it was a last chance to see some med school friends since we were all heading our separate ways (attended a large Midwestern university where commencement was held in the football stadium and the dental students traditionally provided a keg in the stands for all of the allied medical professions).  As for Carter, it made sense in the context of the character that he would choose to stay with a patient.  And, from what we saw of his parents and their dysfunctional family later on, I can see why he was always reaching out for connection with others and why he might not have felt much obligation to please his parents.  He even said the graduation party they were throwing was for his father's friends, not his.  I seem to recall Benton saying he missed his to work, too.  That felt a lot less likely to me due to how close he was to his mother and how thrilled she would've been to see her 'Petey' get his MD.  She reminded me a little of my mother; wild horses would not have kept that woman from my graduation.

I think the importance varies by your family. For Carter, his family is super rich and not even into him being a doctor. So (at least later in the series) we know they would not have been super into the ceremony. When my little sister graduated from medical school, she was the first (so far only) doctor and second to get some sort of graduate degree, so my parents were super into it and my parents are just into that sort of thing. My husband only walked during his high school graduation--and he would have skipped that too if the school hadn't made it mandatory. He skipped college and didn't think of walking for his masters--but his family is extremely practical and no one cared despite him being the first in his family to finish college, let alone get a masters.

I agree on Peter--does seem likely his family would have been very eager to see that graduation ceremony. On the other hand, he was uncomfortable with that type of attention so maybe he just went with grumpy Peter and refused to walk.

22 hours ago, tallykat said:

 

Chloe returns to claim little Susie. Good riddance, I say. I'm glad Grandpa stepped up because for a while there I was starting to worry about little Susie. I expected we would have the episode where Susan just left her at home and forgot to bring her in. Babies are so hard to incorporate into a show. Knowing how many babies are yet to be born, I look forward to being refreshed on how they are treated. Maybe the Cook County Hospital day care is a 24-hour operation.

And then Shep. Poor Shep. Thank you, Shep, for showing us how far we have not come in the past 20 years. The show with the abandoned children where in the end he is shouting: "I'm not a racist!" could have been plucked down into a current drama. I really like him and Carol together. He was funny and I think he really loved her. I felt so bad for him when he was going off about how best to kill yourself with her standing there. And apologized later. I was sorry that he couldn't stay on the show. It was sad to see the effects of Raul's death take it toll on him and his relationship with Carol. They would have made a great couple.

I enjoyed your review.

I agree so much on little Susie. Not sure that any show has integrated children to a storyline well. If they show it realistically, it's annoying because watching babies cry/people dealing with day care emergencies is not exactly fun TV. Then again, it's annoying when characters have a baby but seem to have no issue going out on the town at a drop of the hat with zero guilt that they just worked 12 hours and haven't seen Little Susie at all. . .

Shep was a good character. He went downhill as he was leaving the show but in the prime of his stay on the show, it was a well done character and he and Carol seemed well matched.

[BooksRule]

I just saw the episode where the guy came into the ER shouting in Spanish and Pratt and Abby followed him out to his car where his wife was in labor.  Pratt proceeded to yell 'Puta! Puta!' at the wife.  She looked shocked and the husband tackled Pratt and began to pummel him.  Pratt (totally mystified) asked what was wrong.  Abby told the woman to 'pujar' (I think that was right).  Pratt said 'what?' and Abby said 'you called his wife a whore.'  I laughed much more than I probably should have laughed. 

[Drapers4thWife]

Since later Carter's mom couldn't bother to return home to Chicago for three weeks after he was nearly stabbed to death, I couldn't care less if his absence ruined her plans for a graduation party. 

[debraran]

I agree, re babies being hard to integrate into story lines. Little Ella is cute and I'm at a point now where you just see Corday holding her a lot but you don't have the constant crying or complaining all the young parents seem to do. What did they think while they were pregnant, that the baby would sleep around their schedules, that 12-14 hour shifts would be workable and that childcare would be cheap? It just makes the baby seem like a burden and for a while Elizabeth was totally overwhelmed. Carol I didn't feel that much for because she chose to stay and bring up the twins herself but they do make parents seem a little stupid, as doctor's and nurses , they should know what to expect and plan accordingly.

I feel for Deb who made a good decision for herself to give her baby up for adoption, and gets flak for it. I'm glad Platt apologized.

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

I agree, re babies being hard to integrate into story lines. Little Ella is cute and I'm at a point now where you just see Corday holding her a lot but you don't have the constant crying or complaining all the young parents seem to do. What did they think while they were pregnant, that the baby would sleep around their schedules, that 12-14 hour shifts would be workable and that childcare would be cheap? It just makes the baby seem like a burden and for a while Elizabeth was totally overwhelmed. Carol I didn't feel that much for because she chose to stay and bring up the twins herself but they do make parents seem a little stupid, as doctor's and nurses , they should know what to expect and plan accordingly.

I feel for Deb who made a good decision for herself to give her baby up for adoption, and gets flak for it. I'm glad Platt apologized.

In a situation like Elizabeth and Mark's it was particularly galling.  Both of them were successful physicians, their combined incomes would be mid to upper 6 figures annually. They also had both been in their demanding jobs for many years before the baby came along, they would have known what they needed. They would have had so many resources available to them that 24/7 childcare arrangements would be fairly easily obtainable.  A full time nanny with the availability of on-call crisis care would be the norm for them.  I'm a physician and my colleagues with young kids have childcare arrangements that are layered to accommodate emergencies. Some even have more than one full time caregiver for their kids.  Parents having a baby hand off in their workplace (a hospital, no less) as we saw with Mark and Elizabeth would never happen.  Susan's situation, thrust upon her and not of her choice, was a little different.  She was still a resident, had no partner to help her.  In real life, Little Susie would've been sent to foster care or Susan would have had to take a leave of absence from her residency.  I've worked in hospitals with daycare available to employees, and it is like daycare anywhere; there are set hours and parents had better be there to get the kid before the center closes.

Edited April 25, 2018 by doodlebug

[Racj82]

On rewatched, I just saw Benton and Corday's first night out where they played darts and Benton got tipsy for the first time. I love it. Benton is so happy. Even before he drank anything. I also admit there dancing was pretty sexy.

I hate Carol sabotaging the engagement. I mean if she wasn't ready she wasn't ready and Doug was moving pretty fast. But, her acting like he had no right to be mad at the kiss because of his past is bullshit. That's why you don't get back with cheaters. Because if you are going to throw it back in their face then you really shouldn't be back with them.

[RedbirdNelly]

watched Season 14, epi 4 last night--also known as episode when little Joe falls and gets hurt or the episode when Abby gets Farrah Faucet hair. For some reason they opted to use overly jittery camera work in this episode. I don't know why. They don't normally do that and it doesn't add anything. This episode includes Neela telling off Ray's friend (can't recall her name) for blaming her for Ray getting hurt. Neela isn't perfect but she was right; she didn't make Ray walk out in front of a truck.

On this episode we also see Dr. Pratt's brother for the first time in a while. I was surprised to see him pop up again.

[debraran]

10 hours ago, doodlebug said:

In a situation like Elizabeth and Mark's it was particularly galling.  Both of them were successful physicians, their combined incomes would be mid to upper 6 figures annually. They also had both been in their demanding jobs for many years before the baby came along, they would have known what they needed. They would have had so many resources available to them that 24/7 childcare arrangements would be fairly easily obtainable.  A full time nanny with the availability of on-call crisis care would be the norm for them.  I'm a physician and my colleagues with young kids have childcare arrangements that are layered to accommodate emergencies. Some even have more than one full time caregiver for their kids.  Parents having a baby hand off in their workplace (a hospital, no less) as we saw with Mark and Elizabeth would never happen.  Susan's situation, thrust upon her and not of her choice, was a little different.  She was still a resident, had no partner to help her.  In real life, Little Susie would've been sent to foster care or Susan would have had to take a leave of absence from her residency.  I've worked in hospitals with daycare available to employees, and it is like daycare anywhere; there are set hours and parents had better be there to get the kid before the center closes.

 

I agree, I worked at Yale, many years ago, a large teaching hospital and  they had a daycare. 7-530 or 5:45 and you better be there. On the show, they carried their babies through the worst of the hospital, germs galore, yelling at each other about how it isn't working, etc. I also agree Mark and Corday were the worst, she showed no real love in the beginning and they seemed so unprepared after 9 months. Totally silly in many ways. I also remember at my hospital, the nannies, au pairs, babysitters and grandparents that helped many docs and nurses. Some doctor's had wives that stayed home a while, some didn't, one doctor I work for now has 3 kids and comes in 7am and works until 3 the latest, her choice (foot and ankle surgeon) but it works for her.

My daughter who is 24 laughs that watching these guys with pregnancy/children on ER is good birth control. ; )

Edited April 25, 2018 by debraran

[debraran]

I saw this blooper tape yesterday, I guess Romano got his Corday kiss someway.

[Drapers4thWife]

I know ER was somewhat notorious for dropping plotlines, but the strangest was probably the whole "angel of mercy" accusations against Elizabeth. It took up so much time for what seemed like 1,000 episodes only to be completely forgotten. 

[debraran]

4 hours ago, Drapers4thWife said:

I know ER was somewhat notorious for dropping plotlines, but the strangest was probably the whole "angel of mercy" accusations against Elizabeth. It took up so much time for what seemed like 1,000 episodes only to be completely forgotten. 

I know, they came so close and then "poof" I remember Lizzy had a “panic attack” with Dr. Babcock in the PICU when Ella was sick.  She was yelling and screaming to stay away when Babcock was about to go treat Ella. I loved when Robert Romano came in and helped Elizabeth kicking out Dr Babcock. One more example of a great friendship they shared.  Maybe he fired him or he moved on? (latter is more plausible)

[Amethyst]

Just saw the episode where Kerry started working at County (“What Life?”) and Doug and Susan’s behavior is appalling.  Before you go flying off the handle Doug, why don’t you let the staff know that your patient needs a private room?  

And Susan gets pissed when people clearly notice that she’s overwhelmed taking care of little Susie on her own.  That’s not a fair situation to Susan, but it’s not Weaver’s fault either.  

And when they were mocking Weaver’s behavior along with her disability… just ugh.  How petty and childish.  This definitely set the future tone the staff had with Weaver, but they all shared the blame, imo.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Amethyst
Too many spaces!

[Racj82]

The staff had plenty of reasons to dislike Weaver as time went on but not then. 

In season, one thing I remember and is playing out again is how much a shitty teacher Carter was. He was just as immature as Lucy and defensive as fuck.

I realise my main issue with Lucy is that she's like a stray puppy let loose in the hospital. She doesn't even feel like a young adult. She feels like a child. Always looking pouty or confused. I want to see adults on this show on staff. She keeps coming off as too immaure to be there. 

I see now why it comes off like Benton was just never happy while with Elizabeth. He was distraught basically from the jump because of Reese and his condition. He refused to talk about it with her and held in so much. I know behind the scenes why they never made it but they never stood a chance with him being like that anyway.

[Racj82]

I also remember the fear I always had that they were going link up Carter and Lucy romantically. Thank God we never got that. I hate that she exits the way she did but blech to that.

Reese just signed Dad to Peter for the first time. One of the most genuinely sweet moments in the shows history.

Who came up with the Weaver/Carter living together subplot. Such an odd mix. In a great way but still odd.

[Amethyst]

1 hour ago, Racj82 said:

In season, one thing I remember and is playing out again is how much a shitty teacher Carter was. He was just as immature as Lucy and defensive as fuck.

IA.  It's easy to forget that Carter had great teachers when he was a student/intern.  Even when Benton kept throwing him road blocks, Carter learned a lot from Greene, Lewis, Ross, Weaver, and so on.  But as a teacher himself, Carter was annoyed by Lucy and gave her too much responsibility without understanding that she wasn't ready.  Even Carol called him out for that.

But I think Carter learned his lesson.  Years later, it shows him trying to teach students like Abby and Gallant, and showing real patience with them.