The Closer - General Discussion

[CrazyInAlabama]

I had six classic episodes on my DVR.  While taping this past Monday's episodes, I managed to delete my favorite one, Time Bomb (the shopping mall shooting and bombing attempt, where Sanchez gets shot protecting Provenza).     Since they're only doing 4 episodes each Monday, and started at Season 1, and the episode I need is season 4, I'm hoping they either keep showing the episodes, or maybe have a marathon or two soon.    Good Housekeeping (the one where Brenda and Fritz go to Mexico to talk to Austin) is on Monday March 30, from 7 to 8 a.m. Central.   I'm adding that to my permanent collection.  

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I had six classic episodes on my DVR.  While taping this past Monday's episodes, I managed to delete my favorite one, Time Bomb (the shopping mall shooting and bombing attempt, where Sanchez gets shot protecting Provenza).     Since they're only doing 4 episodes each Monday, and started at Season 1, and the episode I need is season 4, I'm hoping they either keep showing the episodes, or maybe have a marathon or two soon.    Good Housekeeping (the one where Brenda and Fritz go to Mexico to talk to Austin) is on Monday March 30, from 7 to 8 a.m. Central.   I'm adding that to my permanent collection.  

Wow, you sure go for the dark ones, @CrazyInAlabama! Heh. 
I prefer the more comedic episodes, like "Dial M For Provenza," with guest star Jennifer Coolidge, who thinks she’s hiring Provenza to kill her husband. 

[Crs97]

Silly question, but husband and I had a good discussion about this scene and I wanted to get other opinions:

With the kid in Mexico, Brenda tells Fritz she has to know the truth so promises not to prosecute the mom for helping him escape.  Fritz tells her she is making a mistake, but leaves the interview at her request.  Husband thinks that was part of the act to convince the kid to talk, but I wonder.  Do you think they planned that ahead of time, or did Fritz know she would leave the kid to face Mexican justice and disagreed with her plan?

[MaryMitch]

15 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Silly question, but husband and I had a good discussion about this scene and I wanted to get other opinions:

With the kid in Mexico, Brenda tells Fritz she has to know the truth so promises not to prosecute the mom for helping him escape.  Fritz tells her she is making a mistake, but leaves the interview at her request.  Husband thinks that was part of the act to convince the kid to talk, but I wonder.  Do you think they planned that ahead of time, or did Fritz know she would leave the kid to face Mexican justice and disagreed with her plan?

I've always assumed that Fritz knew what she was up to.

[andromeda331]

12 hours ago, MaryMitch said:

I've always assumed that Fritz knew what she was up to.

So have I. I think if he hadn't known her plan that his reaction would have been different even if he waited until after Austin was carted out of the room. That's still my favorite scene. Its such an awesome reveal. I really thought she was going to try and get him to come back to US so when that didn't happen and he told her his version of what happened. I couldn't believe that was it. That he was going to get away it.  Then Brenda dropping the bombshell. That whole meeting, he was so worried about being dragged back to the US and smug about not going back. Her whole plan was building a case for the Mexican courts and Austin just freely confessed. Its so awesome. Had Austin been paying attention she did give him a clue when she walked in the room and he was yelling about his lawyer that he was in Mexico now and he didn't have a right to a lawyer. 

I also love Brenda's remark to Austin's dad about them taking exploiting Mexico to a whole new level.

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I also love Brenda's remark to Austin's dad about them taking exploiting Mexico to a whole new level.

That line is solid gold!

 

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

he was so worried about being dragged back to the US and smug about not going back

I like to think that had he not been so smug and had sincerely had a change of heart, expressing remorse for what he had done, that Brenda might have changed tact. But in real life, people don't really change, and The Closer's characterizations are fairly realistic aside from a little retconning of some main characters over the seasons/spinoff (i.e., Sharon Raydor, Julio, and Flynn). 

[andromeda331]

50 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

That line is solid gold!

 

I like to think that had he not been so smug and had sincerely had a change of heart, expressing remorse for what he had done, that Brenda might have changed tact. But in real life, people don't really change, and The Closer's characterizations are fairly realistic aside from a little retconning of some main characters over the seasons/spinoff (i.e., Sharon Raydor, Julio, and Flynn). 

Its possible. But people really don't change.  I really don't think Austin had any remorse at all. He pressured a thirteen year old girl into sex because he knew she had crush on him and wouldn't let her stop when she changed her mind and wanted too. That's rape, Austin. He went online to find someone he could pin the murder on. Most killers don't have the presence of mind to do that. He did and he was what seventeen, eighteen years old? The man he picked couldn't handle being falsely accused again and killed himself. Also when Brenda offered her deal that he tell her what happened and she'd let his parents go free the first thing he asked about was the money, not his parents. He showed zero signs of remorse for what he did or what would happen to his parents for helping him.  Or for the last housekeeper that he got pregnant and was sent back to Mexico. He was a psychopath who prayed on illegal immigrants. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by andromeda331

[Xeliou66]

About the killer in Good Housekeeping, he was a pure sociopath and I loved how Brenda got him to confess and then told him he would be going to Mexican prison - it was what the piece of shit deserved. He was a smug sociopathic piece of garbage rapist and murderer, I had no problem with Brenda’s actions in that episode - yes Brenda made some questionable and sometimes unethical decisions over the course of the show and it came back to bite her in the end, but this was one time when I had no problem with her actions. Good Housekeeping is one of my favorite episodes, it’s probably my favorite from season 1 - season 1 isn’t my favorite season because the ensemble cast isn’t featured much, it was pretty much all Brenda and then Gabriel, the others - Provenza, Tao, Flynn, Sanchez were barely onscreen. It was interesting how Flynn started off hating Brenda and then came around to her side after Taylor’s slimy behavior. Taylor was a total douche in season 1, I actually came to like him okay at the end of this show and as Chief on Major Crimes, but he was a massive jerk early on. 

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

About the killer in Good Housekeeping, he was a pure sociopath and I loved how Brenda got him to confess and then told him he would be going to Mexican prison - it was what the piece of shit deserved. He was a smug sociopathic piece of garbage rapist and murderer, I had no problem with Brenda’s actions in that episode - yes Brenda made some questionable and sometimes unethical decisions over the course of the show and it came back to bite her in the end, but this was one time when I had no problem with her actions. Good Housekeeping is one of my favorite episodes, it’s probably my favorite from season 1 - season 1 isn’t my favorite season because the ensemble cast isn’t featured much, it was pretty much all Brenda and then Gabriel, the others - Provenza, Tao, Flynn, Sanchez were barely onscreen. It was interesting how Flynn started off hating Brenda and then came around to her side after Taylor’s slimy behavior. Taylor was a total douche in season 1, I actually came to like him okay at the end of this show and as Chief on Major Crimes, but he was a massive jerk early on. 

I didn't either. Not in this episode. I really don't think she even did anything unethical. She had no legal standing to bring Austin back and she could only arrest and charge him in the US. But Mexico did have legal ways to bring him to justice. 

One thing I do find amazing is after Taylor stabs Flynn in the back in the second to last episode of season one.  Then he's absolutely shocked at the end when Flynn is still ticked at him.  Really Taylor? You suggest maybe Flynn should be looked into after mistakes were made in the Croelick case something Taylor didn't even care about until almost the end and then threw him under the bus. And is shocked, shocked that Flynn's not only still pissed at him but puts in for a permanent transfer to Brenda's squad.

Even though Taylor eventually turns around. He's really such a jerk in the beginning and a horrible cop. How he hasn't been fired I don't know. The capture and arrest of the druggy that was robbing gays and the way he forced a confession from him. Suggesting they bury the body of Lisa Barnes and not bother to investigate it and pretend it never happened. I wanted to get rid of him and Pope at any point during season one tell him that he's part of the reason Brenda was brought in anyway. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by andromeda331

[Crs97]

I didn’t have a problem with how she handled the Mexico confession, but I wasn’t sure if Fritz did.  Hubby is sure it was a set up and Fritz was behind her.  I just couldn’t tell.  That is one of my favorite episodes, up to and including Gabriel chasing after the kittens.  Did we find out where the kittens went?

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

I didn’t have a problem with how she handled the Mexico confession, but I wasn’t sure if Fritz did.  Hubby is sure it was a set up and Fritz was behind her.  I just couldn’t tell.  That is one of my favorite episodes, up to and including Gabriel chasing after the kittens.  Did we find out where the kittens went?

Nope, they were gone by the next episode.

[Bastet]

In a deleted scene, she was going to give one to Fritz.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Lifetime is playing with the schedule again.    They were airing four episodes, on Monday mornings, starting at 7 a.m. Central.   Then as of this Monday they're only showing 3.     They're showing part 1 of Serving the King, but I didn't see part 2 next Monday.   Imaging my surprise that they are now showing 3 on Mondays, and 3 on Tuesdays, starting at 7 a. m. Central.   Maybe there's a chance I'll get to DVR the one I accidentally erased.  

Edited May 1, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[krankydoodle]

I was pleasantly surprised to see that this show is available on HBO Max. I never got into Major Crimes, but love revisiting The Closer. Good Housekeeping, Critical Missing, and the two with Croelick are among my favorite episodes. It's too bad Jason O'Mara didn't make more appearances. I've found him kind of bland in most everything else I've seen him in, but he was incredibly effective as a villain here.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Update on the Lifetime schedule.   As of this week, The Closer is 7 to 10 a.m. (Central), Monday through Thursday (since Friday is a legal holiday, it's not on Friday morning.    I don't know if this is next weeks, schedule or not, but they are getting to the end of the final season (Season 7).   I don't know if they'll start over or not.  

[Crs97]

We just watched the one when Sharon asks for help because one of her officers has bruises.  Her behavior toward Brenda is so ridiculously awful that she made Taylor look good.  Brenda barely had the case with no report and repeated demands for discretion, and then Sharon basically tells everyone who will listen that Brenda caused the suspect’s death.  Then when she ends The show by saying they would work better if Brenda just followed her orders?  Brenda needed to remind her who ranks higher.  I was sorry she kept showing back up.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I'm watching Rizzoli & Isles, and am having a hard time with watching it.    The actor who played Phillip Stroh on Closer, and Major Crimes is playing an FBI agent, and he's supposed to be a good guy, but I just can't get over his past as Stroh.     I know Billy Burke is a very accomplished actor, but I will always associate him with Stroh.   

[friendperidot]

We just got Start tv in Tulsa, probably October 1, I'm not really sure, I didn't find it until about the middle of October. The Closer is on from 5PM to 7PM daily and I sure am enjoying it. I actually like Start and watch it for several hours, Medium, Crossing Jordan (it's ok, but I'm not crazy about it and I'm too lazy to pick up the remote and change the channel, lol) Cagney and Lacey, The Closer, Major Crimes (M-F) and Ghost Whisperer, which has always been a guilty pleasure even if Jennifer Love Hewitt is not a good actress, but she cries really well on cue. I don't care for The Good Wife, so it's back to Antiques Roadshow UK on Pluto so I can go to sleep in a bit.

[shapeshifter]

I’m loving Start too. I’ve had it for much longer here in Chicagoland, so there are some episodes of The Closer I skip now. I mostly prefer the ones that have more comedy. 

Edited October 26, 2020 by shapeshifter

[friendperidot]

Since I began watching Start, I've seen a lot of episodes I missed before in the final and the first seasons. They just started the series over at the beginning recently and it's been interesting. I didn't realize just how big of a$$holes Flynn and Taylor were. It's interesting watching their development through the beginning of The Closer to the end of Major Crimes. And Brenda had their number, she did the "bless your heart" routine that Southern women are so very good at for quite a while with them. And just how cute were Julio and Buzz in the beginning?

[MaryMitch]

It looks like Lifetime is resuming airing episodes, starting with the pilot, on Tuesday 12/29 at 10:03 eastern

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, MaryMitch said:

It looks like Lifetime is resuming airing episodes, starting with the pilot, on Tuesday 12/29 at 10:03 eastern

FWIW, Start TV is airing the last 2 episodes of season 5 this afternoon and the first 2 of 6 tomorrow.

[Raja]

On 2/28/2019 at 8:03 PM, Bastet said:

No, there's no restriction on her reading someone their rights.  She/the writers gave the rest of the squad so little to do, maybe always having someone else deliver the Miranda warning was a characterization detail -- one of the few things over which she'd routinely cede control?  I never noticed that; good eye (ear)!

And, hey, her delegation gave us Julio's classic take, something like, "You have the right to shut up.  Any stupid thing you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.  You have the right to an attorney.  If your broke ass can't afford an attorney, one will be appointed."

I think that as the interrogation specialist getting suspects to confess Chief Johnson did not want to be the one to give the warning. In effect "I got you." as part of her plan. Some of her most memorable scenes were keeping the sniper who killed the ride along reporter,  the trucker serial killer and the gangster who killed the romantic rival rapper and his entourage talking as she held her disgust that they were so proud of their killing.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Starting this Monday on Lifetime, the Closer will be Monday through Friday from 9-11 a.m., followed by three episodes of Major Crimes, starting with the first episode.   I have no idea what's going to happen after that, or if that's their schedule on weekdays for a while. 

[kieyra]

I’m rewatching The Closer for the first time in years, on HBO Max. A lot of it hasn’t aged terribly well, but good lord I forgot how aggravating Fritz is, right from the the jump. Nagging, passive aggressive, no boundaries. Continually acts surprised that Brenda is dedicated to her job even though that’s who she was when they started dating. (Especially in the beginning, it’s just infuriating that he’s in LE but acts shocked that members of LE have to work long and unpredictable hours.)

Gives her shit for not having immediately told him that she thought she might be pregnant. 

Inserts himself into her family dynamic against her wishes. 

Obviously Brenda has flaws. Obviously she shouldn’t have moved in with him so fast. (Keeping in mind I’m only in season 2.) But I can’t help feeling like he should have read the damned room and not asked in the first place.

[Bastet]

Yeah, he really pushed for an accelerated relationship trajectory that is inherently unhealthy and just happened to wind up working out for them in the end.  Watching this show after the fact, on DVD, meaning several episodes at a time rather than one per week, made it seem even faster, but I actually looked up the timeline and it was fast.

I mostly like him - probably largely due to Jon Tenney, on whom I have a physical and intellectual crush - but holy crap I am with you on how infuriating it was when he'd get pissy about her dedication to her job.  Have you met her, Fritz?  She didn't pretend to be someone else and then spring this on you; it's her defining personality trait that you were fully aware of even before your first date.  And it made me even more angry when he'd get his boxers in a bunch about her job being dangerous.  YOU'RE AN FBI AGENT, DUDE!

But, and I know I've said this before, as awful as his passive-aggressive behavior was, that time when he expressed his frustration with her messy ways by asking if her shoes are afraid of the dark or can they go in the closet cracks me the hell up.

I found myself sometimes not getting angry with him speaking to her reminiscent of how one would scold a child, because she was prone to acting like an overgrown toddler.  What bothers me about their relationship is Brenda was readily acknowledged as flawed, while Fritz was regarded as some long-suffering saint for putting up with her.

[kieyra]

It’s getting worse. I’m on the season 2 episode where Pope’s exwife bursts into the station and screams at Brenda about losing custody of her kids (in front of everyone), and accuses Brenda of wanting to bang Pope. So this is Pope’s wife’s fault, not Brenda’s. It’s not Brenda’s fault that Estelle lost custody of the kids, and Brenda is not sleeping with Pope.

... and yet, when she gets home, Fritz lays into her about the fact that Estelle pulled this stunt (!? again how is it Brenda’s fault that she acted like a crazy person) and blames Brenda for the whole thing. And is borderline verbally abusive about it.

I swear there isn’t a scene where he isn’t nagging, belittling, or patronizing her. Refusing to let her borrow his “new” car after she’s had a bad day. (He yells “No!” at her like she’s a misbehaving dog.)

I never liked the character and I’m sure I posed similar rants back in the day, but he’s just making my skin crawl now. It’s like he just exists to remind us of all of Brenda’s flaws. And to remind Brenda of them.

Edit: a few episodes later, Brenda’s at home discussing a serious terrorism/murder case with various team members. Fritz shouts from another room: “Brenda, come to bed!”, with the tone of commanding an errant dog or child.

Rather than, you know, a high-level professional trying to do her job.

(In an earlier episode, he used the same tone to demand that Brenda hand him her phone while she was talking to her own mother.)

Dude, I have no idea how this all got so sinister to me. I’ve probably been watching too many Sally Wainwright cop shows where a female detective would never let a love interest treat her like a child.

[kathyk24]

I'm so glad someone else doesn't like Fritz. Brenda should have broken up with him after he didn't tell her about his alcoholism. I hated that the only time he brought up his alcoholism was after they had a fight. I'm glad they didn't have kids just because Fritz wanted them. 

[shapeshifter]

Most of the time I thought Fritz and Brenda deserved each other, LOL. 

The only time Fritz went over the line for me was when he gaslighted her for his not telling her about his alcoholism. When she said that he had told her he didn't drink because he was "allergic" to alcohol, I wish he would have replied with something more like: I'm sorry. I thought you knew what "allergic to alcohol means;" you're right, though, I should have been clear. 

Most of the times when Fritz was trying to get Brenda to leave work at work, I excused it as him wanting what was best for her. But, yeah, y'all are right. Nobody needs to be told when to stop working. Again, he could have instead said something like: Brenda, Honey, are you sure you want to be working on this right now? 
--And then he would have to respect her response even if it didn't seem sensible. 

[Bastet]

Like Sharon told Brenda, sometimes a relationship is about what you're willing to overlook. 

Would I be married to Brenda?  Hell, no.  (Well, I wouldn't be married to anyone, but go with me here.)  But Fritz loved her, and needed to either accept her as she was (understanding you can't separate the things you like from the things you don't; they all combine to make the person you love who they are, and that whole person is either right for you or isn't) or decide her myopic nature and lack of self awareness was too much and move on.  Marrying her and launching a passive-aggressive campaign to change her, however, was not an appropriate course.

[Crs97]

I liked that it was two flawed people trying to make a go of it because they loved each other.  Everyone seems annoyed with Fritz, but she was no prize either.  

[kathyk24]

Brenda had her parents and Pope call her out when needed. Nobody told Fritz that he was being passive aggressive. Fritz should have told her about his drunk driving arrests especially since Pope knew about them. Brenda didn't deserve to be blindsided like that.

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

Brenda had her parents and Pope call her out when needed. Nobody told Fritz that he was being passive aggressive. Fritz should have told her about his drunk driving arrests especially since Pope knew about them. Brenda didn't deserve to be blindsided like that.

I'm not sure her parents could really count though. They were often showing up without calling and expecting her to just drop everything. I might be forgetting but the only times that her parents actually did that was when she let them believing she showed up for Christmas in Atlanta when it was because her murderer had gotten arrested. That was a crappy thing to do and they had canceled plans to join the rest of their family in Florida. While she did need to be called out for that and should visit her family more often. I don't like Fitz and her parents' always getting on her about working all the time. That was who Brenda was. She loved her job and loved working all the time. Working a case was exactly where she loved to be. I really don't think she should have constantly had them on her for working too much. And yes Fitz should have told her about his drunk driving arrests. That is something she should have known and before they moved in together.  

[Bastet]

8 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I liked that it was two flawed people trying to make a go of it because they loved each other.  Everyone seems annoyed with Fritz, but she was no prize either.  

I think their relationship worked, generally like both of them as characters, but wouldn't marry either one of them (again, assuming I'd get married, which I won't) if they were real people.  My issue is that Brenda's flaws were loudly and consistently acknowledged as such, while Fritz's were waved away, as if he put up with so much from her that his own issues were irrelevant.

And I'm not going to get terribly fired up about the lack of analysis of his side of the equation, given how many female Fritzes there have been in the history of television (and, you know, life) without anyone raising an eyebrow.  But the lopsided way in which their negative traits/actions were presented is just another side of the same sexist coin, so I'm not going to ignore it, either.

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, Bastet said:

And I'm not going to get terribly fired up about the lack of analysis of his side of the equation, given how many female Fritzes there have been in the history of television (and, you know, life) without anyone raising an eyebrow.  But the lopsided way in which their negative traits/actions were presented is just another side of the same sexist coin, so I'm not going to ignore it, either.

I don't recall Fritz being explored as a character beyond the alcoholism bit. Often a cardboard cut-out or a blow-up doll with his visage would have sufficed, IIRC. 
I guess that was to keep Brenda as a strong independent woman and not have her eclipsed by her relationship to Fritz.

[friendperidot]

I want to know why Brenda's Ding Dongs are wrapped in foil. I finally broke down and put one pkg on my grocery order today. Mine came wrapped in clear plastic.

[kieyra]

I promise this will be my last post on the topic, because I don’t want to be That Person, but man. I’m at the end of S3 where it turns out Fritz has been hiding his alcoholism. For me it’s only been like a week since I watched him lay into her for keeping it secret that she thought she might be pregnant.

From a 2020/2021 standpoint, I feel like I’m watching an emotionally abusive relationship where Brenda (with, yes, issues of her own) feels like she’s always in the wrong because she’s trapped somewhere between these “old fashioned” ideals about womanhood that make her act like a little girl who needs approval from Daddy/Fritz/Pope, and her actual competence as a professional adult grown-ass woman. And Fritz leverages the former with everything he’s got.

Side note, if I was a younger person with more energy and time, I’d make a supercut of all their scenes through S3 so far, because the majority feature Fritz outright, legit yelling at her and/or belittling her. And then she ends up apologizing most of the time. (My screen is paused around the time that he is mad at her for being mad that he lied about his alcoholism / DUIS. I’m sure she’s about to back down.)

Oh, and he threw away her food at home without asking her. Because she’s not “allowed” to have sugar.

[shapeshifter]

12 hours ago, friendperidot said:

I want to know why Brenda's Ding Dongs are wrapped in foil. I finally broke down and put one pkg on my grocery order today. Mine came wrapped in clear plastic.

Because plastic is cheaper? Here's an article from 2010 showing Ding Dongs wrapped in foil:
https://www.brandeating.com/2010/11/review-hostess-ding-dongs.html
The Closer ran from 2005 to 2012.

[shapeshifter]

11 hours ago, kieyra said:

I promise this will be my last post on the topic, because I don’t want to be That Person, but man. I’m at the end of S3 where it turns out Fritz has been hiding his alcoholism. For me it’s only been like a week since I watched him lay into her for keeping it secret that she thought she might be pregnant.

From a 2020/2021 standpoint, I feel like I’m watching an emotionally abusive relationship where Brenda (with, yes, issues of her own) feels like she’s always in the wrong because she’s trapped somewhere between these “old fashioned” ideals about womanhood that make her act like a little girl who needs approval from Daddy/Fritz/Pope, and her actual competence as a professional adult grown-ass woman. And Fritz leverages the former with everything he’s got.

Side note, if I was a younger person with more energy and time, I’d make a supercut of all their scenes through S3 so far, because the majority feature Fritz outright, legit yelling at her and/or belittling her. And then she ends up apologizing most of the time. (My screen is paused around the time that he is mad at her for being mad that he lied about his alcoholism / DUIS. I’m sure she’s about to back down.)

Oh, and he threw away her food at home without asking her. Because she’s not “allowed” to have sugar.

Heh, it's nice to have someone besides me be "that poster" for a change. 
I think we can sum up Fritz's relationship to Brenda with the word "paternalistic," which makes it a bit ironic when he calls her out on not standing up to her father.
But, in the end, she loves him, so, if she was my friend, I'd just add him to my mental list titled "I'm So Glad I'm Not Married To That Person," which could potentially include pretty much everyone. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

16 hours ago, friendperidot said:

I want to know why Brenda's Ding Dongs are wrapped in foil. I finally broke down and put one pkg on my grocery order today. Mine came wrapped in clear plastic.

Ding Dongs used to be wrapped in foil, but they switched to plastic a few years ago.    

[andromeda331]

I've only tried Ding Dongs once and it had the foil. Where I leave there are no Ding Dongs. I heard of them before Brenda from reading the Baby Sitters Club series Claudia ate tons of junk food and hid them in her room and some of those were Ding Dong. The grocery store we shopped at finally got them in once. My mom bought a box and we finally tried them. They were really good. No wonder Brenda loved them. But that was the only box we ever tried. The store never got them in again. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

I really don't understand why Gabriel being the mole for Goldman was a surprise.     He was upset about the killer of the grandfather, and grandson's killer being left at home, which the killer requested himself.     

Then the case when Provenza's car was found in the long dead man's pocket, right before the L.A. riots, and he didn't want the killer, who was the man's brother to be pursued, and tried, I wasn't liking Gabriel very much.   It seemed that Gabriel wanted the brother's murder forgotten, because the killer had changed.     

Then there's one of my least favorite episodes, Ruby, where he beat up the child rapist, and murderer, and Brenda and Taylor had to save his butt.   

To me, Gabriel was the logical mole, even though he didn't know his girlfriend was Goldman's actual mole, Gabriel still was the source without knowing. 

  

Edited January 26, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[Raja]

2 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I really don't understand why Gabriel being the mole for Goldman was a surprise.     He was upset about the killer of the grandfather, and grandson's killer being left at home, which he requested himself.     Then the case when Provenza's car was found in the long dead man's pocket, right before the L.A. riots, and he didn't want the killer, who was the man's brother to be pursued, and tried, I wasn't liking Gabriel very much.   It seemed that Gabriel wanted the brother's murder forgotten, because the killer had changed.     Then there's one of my least favorite episodes, Ruby, where he beat up the child rapist, and murderer, and Brenda and Taylor had to save his butt.   To me, Gabriel was the logical mole, even though he didn't know the girlfriend was Goldman's source.  

I would disagree of the description of Sergeant Gabriel as a "mole".  As mole is normally actively working for the other side. He was the victim of a spy using the honey trap tactic. That Detective Sanchez was so strident in not offering forgiveness is on Julio. He was the one most with Chief Johnson in her actions and was already mad when Sergeant Gabriel objected at the scene of the crime.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Yes, Gabriel was more the unwitting source for the girlfriend/mole, who was more like a spy since she was paid by Goldman paying off her loans.  

Julio was right though, eventually Tyrell Baylor (or whatever his name was) would have killed again, and the family would want to know why a confessed murderer was running around loose to kill again.     

The other two episodes I can't watch any more is the one where Brenda's mother dies, and the one where the missing kid turns out to be a horrible sociopath, that ruined a number of lives.   However, the parents in that episode disgusted me, trying to first blame their own daughter who had been terrorized by the brother, and then trying to blame each other for killing their son.   And poor Ralphie the dog, I just can't watch that one any more.  

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I really don't understand why Gabriel being the mole for Goldman was a surprise.     He was upset about the killer of the grandfather, and grandson's killer being left at home

2 hours ago, Raja said:

I would disagree of the description of Sergeant Gabriel as a "mole".  As mole is normally actively working for the other side. He was the victim of a spy using the honey trap tactic.

After I had watched most of The Closer episodes several times, I started wondering why Gabriel wasn't the obvious choice for "the leak."
Apparently nobody considered a honey pot scheme until maybe the scene at the elevator when Raydor says regarding Gabriel's gf, "You live together!"
I wonder if the writers ever considered having a them wonder about a honey pot scheme earlier and then suspecting Provenza or Flynn or maybe even Julio. 
Regardless, I don't think Brenda and crew's cluelessness about Gabriel being The Leak started being an eye-roller for me until I'd seen the relevant episodes at least a couple of times -- and probably more.

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

The other two episodes I can't watch any more is the one where Brenda's mother dies

I've watched the death of Brenda's mother twice because it's so well done, and maybe had most of it on in the background another time before I realized which one it was and turned it off.
Is that one of the episodes leading up to the reveal of The Leak in the Division? 
If so, I could see how we viewers would be too distracted to think about Gabriel -- and so would Brenda!
Same for Brenda if it was when her father was ill. 
But mostly, Brenda refused to consider a leak for a long time. If she had considered it, I am sure she would have figured it out for herself.

 

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Yes, Gabriel was more the unwitting source for the girlfriend/mole, who was more like a spy since she was paid by Goldman paying off her loans.  

Julio was right though, eventually Tyrell Baylor (or whatever his name was) would have killed again, and the family would want to know why a confessed murderer was running around loose to kill again.     

The other two episodes I can't watch any more is the one where Brenda's mother dies, and the one where the missing kid turns out to be a horrible sociopath, that ruined a number of lives.   However, the parents in that episode disgusted me, trying to first blame their own daughter who had been terrorized by the brother, and then trying to blame each other for killing their son.   And poor Ralphie the dog, I just can't watch that one any more.  

I skip both of those episodes too. Brenda's reaction just guts me Kyra did such a good job. The missing kid turns out psycho freaks me out too much. I also skip the one with the mom autopsying her son, and the one with the dead druggy mom who was killed so she wouldn't end up getting custody of her daughter. The kid's father was dying of cancer and commits suicide. Its just such sad episode. 

[Crs97]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Brenda's reaction just guts me Kyra did such a good job.

When she starts screaming for Fritz and he comes flying through the door and then realizes what has happened . . . the two of them play the hell out of that scene.  The only thing I would have changed is that her dad is supposedly making breakfast.  I always think of course he wouldn’t be as fast as Fritz, but he would have come running, too.  He should have at least made it to the doorway.  He is such a fine actor as well; his reaction shot might have broken me, but would have been the right grace note to end that scene.

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, Crs97 said:

When she starts screaming for Fritz and he comes flying through the door and then realizes what has happened . . . the two of them play the hell out of that scene.  The only thing I would have changed is that her dad is supposedly making breakfast.  I always think of course he wouldn’t be as fast as Fritz, but he would have come running, too.  He should have at least made it to the doorway.  He is such a fine actor as well; his reaction shot might have broken me, but would have been the right grace note to end that scene.

I had never considered that, but you're absolutely right.
I guess they did it without Clay because they wanted to keep the focus on the main character? 
I guess it didn't bother me because Clay had recently recovered from his heart problem was still recovering from his thyroid cancer and was able to make breakfast but not run to see what the noise was.

Edited January 25, 2021 by shapeshifter

[Bastet]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I guess it didn't bother me because Clay had recently recovered from his heart problem and was able to make breakfast but not run to see what the noise was.

It was the thyroid cancer and his treatment for it he was recovering from; his heart attack was an earlier season.

If Willie Ray had been terminally ill, I would theorize his absence was because, as soon as Brenda screamed, he knew what had happened, and he needed a good long minute before he went and confronted that.  But with her death being completely out of the blue, the lack of a "Brenda Leigh, what's wrong?!" and Clay appearing in the hall just as Fritz ushers Brenda out and shuts the door is noticeable -- but only after the scene ends; the scene itself is so perfectly acted (including by Frances Sternhagen, who almost creeps me out with how realistically dead she looks), I'm not thinking about Clay at all.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Bastet

[CoderLady]

34 minutes ago, Bastet said:

It was the thyroid cancer and his treatment for it he was recovering from; his heart attack was an earlier season.

If Willie Ray had been terminally ill, I would theorize his absence was because, as soon as Brenda screamed, he knew what had happened, and he needed a good long minute before he went and confronted that.  But with her death being completely out of the blue, the lack of a "Brenda Leigh, what's wrong?!" and a frustratingly-slow run to the bedroom is noticeable -- but only after the scene ends; the scene itself is so perfectly acted (including by Frances Sternhagen, who almost creeps me out with how realistically dead she looks), I'm not thinking about Clay at all.

I was so shocked by her dead face that I haven't been able to watch that scene again after one viewing. It still haunts me.

Edited January 25, 2021 by CoderLady