The Ruins (2009)

[luckyroll3]

Just discovered that The Ruins is available on Amazon Prime and realized that I never watched this season.

I'm only 4 episodes in, and I find just about everyone on the Champions team, save for 2 or 3, to be complete assholes. The way they treat everyone is just so despicable. I think if I had actually watched this season in real time, it would have made me wanted to completely stop watching the challenge.

I did, however, enjoy watching Tonya slapped the shit out of Veronica, though.

Speaking of Tonya, I didn't realize this was the challenge during which the toothbrush assault occurred. Equally as deplorable as the two guys involved was Viacom's response to the suit that it wasn't their fault it happened, even though they filmed it, and that basically she was asking for it because of her behavior. I hope some people over there got fired to cover the settlement fees.

[jsm1125]

I believe that this was the first challenge for the JEK alliance (plus Derrick), which gave Wes, Syrus and Darrell little chance of making it to the end on anything but ruins wins

[fredj]

Just discovered that The Ruins is available on Amazon Prime and realized that I never watched this season.

I'm only 4 episodes in, and I find just about everyone on the Champions team, save for 2 or 3, to be complete assholes. The way they treat everyone is just so despicable. I think if I had actually watched this season in real time, it would have made me wanted to completely stop watching the challenge.

I did, however, enjoy watching Tonya slapped the shit out of Veronica, though.

Speaking of Tonya, I didn't realize this was the challenge during which the toothbrush assault occurred. Equally as deplorable as the two guys involved was Viacom's response to the suit that it wasn't their fault it happened, even though they filmed it, and that basically she was asking for it because of her behavior. I hope some people over there got fired to cover the settlement fees.

 

It gets worse, but the worse part is that watching how they act (mainly JEK) towards the women on that challenge, in the end you definitely  believe that kenny and evan did make those things to tonya.

Edited February 4, 2015 by fredj

[choclatechip45]

 

I believe that this was the first challenge for the JEK alliance (plus Derrick), which gave Wes, Syrus and Darrell little chance of making it to the end on anything but ruins wins

Darrell would have probably made it to the end if he hadn't been kicked off for punching Brad. He was in the JEK alliance and one of the top male performers on The Champions team. I don't think Wes really cared about making it to the end after he won The Duel.

[KerleyQ]

Speaking of Tonya, I didn't realize this was the challenge during which the toothbrush assault occurred. Equally as deplorable as the two guys involved was Viacom's response to the suit that it wasn't their fault it happened, even though they filmed it, and that basically she was asking for it because of her behavior. I hope some people over there got fired to cover the settlement fees.

 

 

That's the worst part for me.  Obviously, these two assholes shouldn't have ever done what they did, but there's a whole crew involved there, and none of them stopped worrying about filming a show and stepped up to those two to protect her and stop them?  That's deplorable. 

[Lantern7]

Most of the season is a blur to me. Thank goodness . . . I don't think there was ever a worse group of winner than the Champions fivesome. And that's not factoring in what was alleged to have happened to Tonya.

[luckyroll3]

I don't think there was ever a worse group of winner than the Champions fivesome.

So much truth in this statement. Every time I see Suzie smirking each time they manipulate someone or change the agreements to favor themselves, I want to reach through the screen to punch her.

[choclatechip45]

The sad thing is on paper the cast wasn't so bad. It had a nice mix of new school/regulars/people we hadn't seen in a while. The fact that JEK dominated all the storylines really made this challenge horrible. Plus it has always made me mad even before the lawsuit that Evan was taking the moral high ground with Veronica that she crossed the line with Tonya.

[Bob Sambob]

https://twitter.com/susie_meister/status/563194089479237632

 

I think this speaks volumes, personally. If Nanners or Derrick had said this, maybe I'd side-eye. But as much as people don't like her as a contestant on the show, I highly doubt Susie is one to bullshit about stuff like THIS.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Bob Sambob

[choclatechip45]

 

I think this speaks volumes, personally. If Nanners or Derrick had said this, maybe I'd side-eye. But as much as people don't like her as a contestant on the show, I highly doubt Susie is one to bullshit about stuff like THIS.

What did it say? The link doesn't work.

[Bob Sambob]

Looks like she deleted it. Probably because she legally can't say anything.

 

But basically, someone tweeted at her (paraphrasing) "Did you stand by and let Evan and Kenny rape Tonya? You should be ashamed of yourself." This was a brand new tweet, by the way; happened in the last 30 minutes. Same person tweeted hate at Evan and Kenny, too.

Susie answered it (verbatim) "didn't happen. I was there. it's a lie." Kenny actually answered by saying "thank you thank you thank you."

 

ETA: Susie actually posted a follow-up for a few minutes, but has since deleted that too. That one said something like "Tonya is a dangerous alcoholic and admitted under oath that she was unconscious. Kenny is a gentleman" (she didn't mention Evan, for any conspiracy theorists grasping at straws out there).

 

ETA: The original troll has since deleted the worst of their tweets now, too. The whole thing no longer exists. But I saw it. Christ, I feel like I just saw Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster all at once.

 

ETA: I'll repost this op-ed piece Susie wrote last summer. Kinda backs this all up.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Bob Sambob

[choclatechip45]

Thanks. I've read the op-ed. At least Susie's tweet have been respectful. I've seen some of Bananas tweets  and he calls them all derogatory names whenever someone asks him about the rape incident.

[luckyroll3]

I would be inclined to believe that if Viacom's hadn't publicly released the following statement:

Viacom said Tonya:

“failed to avoid the injuries of which she complains. For example, while she was a contestant on The Ruins, Plaintiff was frequently intoxicated (to an extent far greater than other contestants), rowdy, combative, flirtatious and on multiple occasions intentionally exposed her bare breasts and genitalia to other contestants.”

Simply stating, "it's a lie and we have the evidence/witnesses to back that up" would have gone over better, but they came out swinging. That statement made it seem like they were trying to find a reason to make whatever may have happened happened all her fault. Edited February 5, 2015 by luckyroll3

[Watermelon]

That's weird. 

 

For all their talk about how cameras are going 24/7 it should be patently obvious what, if anything, happened.

 

And it nothing happened, there's no reason to make Tanya out to be a drunken floozy. 

[luckyroll3]

That's weird. 

 

For all their talk about how cameras are going 24/7 it should be patently obvious what, if anything, happened.

 

And it nothing happened, there's no reason to make Tanya out to be a drunken floozy. 

Exactly.

[KerleyQ]

ETA: Susie actually posted a follow-up for a few minutes, but has since deleted that too. That one said something like "Tonya is a dangerous alcoholic and admitted under oath that she was unconscious. Kenny is a gentleman" (she didn't mention Evan, for any conspiracy theorists grasping at straws out there).

 

 

Unless she was in Kenny's pocket 24/7 during filming, she's basically basing this on "I respect Kenny and don't respect Tonya, so I'm going to take his word for it."  

[Bob Sambob]

No, the first tweet, as well as her essay, say she was in the room during the time frame in question.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Bob Sambob

[choclatechip45]

I remember after The Ruins was filmed Kim from RW Hollywood said she would never do a Challenge again because of the disgusting behavior she saw. Also, I remember it was reported that Katie was  subpoena to testify.  I know Katelynn mentioned in her Reddit Chat that it was done with Kellyann's toothbrush who hasn't appeared on a Challenge since. I don't know if it happened, but given that Evan was involved who always gave me a creepy vibe since Fresh Meat I wouldn't be surprised. Also, Tonya has been disliked by everyone since Battle of the Sexes 2 so it doesn't surprise me that cast members didn't take her side which could have been why they chose her as their target.

Edited February 6, 2015 by choclatechip45

[Bob Sambob]

I guess the reason I believe Susie is this:

Picture your worst enemy. Hell, not even your worst enemy. Just someone who annoys the neverending shit out of you.

Now picture your best friend.

Now picture yourself in a room and your best friend starts sexually assaulting your annoying enemy.

Now ... what would YOU do? Would you stop it? Of course you would.

So why would anyone think Susie wouldn't? Because she annoyed you as a edited character on a reality game show? She says herself in her essay, "Despite being in the room during the time frame of the alleged incident, I did not see or hear an attack of any kind, nor would I, needless to say, have tolerated such behavior." I'm inclined to believe HER ... but not necessarily everyone else in this situation would get the benefit of the doubt from me.

 

choclatechip45, I remember all of that. This whole thing has always just stunk to high heaven. Makes my skin crawl.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Bob Sambob

[choclatechip45]

 

So why would anyone think Susie wouldn't? Because she annoyed you as a edited character on a reality game show? She says herself in her essay, "Despite being in the room during the time frame of the alleged incident, I did not see or hear an attack of any kind, nor would I, needless to say, have tolerated such behavior." I'm inclined to believe HER ... but not necessarily everyone else in this situation would get the benefit of the doubt from me.

I have always liked Susie and was never a fan of Tonya. However, I know Susie wanted a stand-up career at some point which is why she did The Gauntlet 2 after not appearing on these shows for years. I think she has a podcast now and speaking out against Viacom could damage her reputation in the business in some way. I don't know if it happened it just wouldn't surprise me if it was true because of who was involved. If someone like Brad, Darrell or Derrick were involved I wouldn't believe Tonya's claims for a second. I do remember Syrus who was on The Ruins said he supported Tonya's claims.

 

choclatechip45, I remember all of that. This whole thing has always just stunk to high heaven. Makes my skin crawl.

I agree the whole thing makes my skin crawl too.

Edited February 6, 2015 by choclatechip45

[KerleyQ]

I believe that Susie genuinely believes that it didn't happen.  However... How long was Tonya passed out?  Was Susie with Kenny and Evan the entire time Tonya was out of it?  I can't imagine that Tonya has a specific time of the evening that it happened, given that she was probably really, really out of it.  Susie may have been in the room with those guys for a big chunk of the night, but I'm guessing that, eventually, she went to sleep.  

 

It seems to me that there are at least a few cast members who seem to know that this happened.  And the producers are not denying that it happened, they're more on the defensive of trying to push responsibility for the incident back on Tonya's shoulders.  I doubt much goes on in those houses that the crew doesn't know about or find out about.  If this didn't happen, the show would have come out swinging with that.  They have those houses wired with cameras.  They know what happened, and now they're trying to deflect responsibility to cover their own asses.  And they haven't had Kenny or Evan back.  

 

I'm sure that people like Susie and Johnny would like to believe that their friends didn't do this.  And they probably think back and say to themselves "I was hanging out with them that night, and I didn't see them do it."  But people eventually go to sleep, go to the bathroom, take a shower, etc.  

[Bob Sambob]

I'm starting to feel like Evan and Kenny's lawyer here, and it's not something I'm comfortable with. So I'm going to to try to sum up my feelings in one shot, so I don't ever have to talk about this again.

 

OK, I said it at TWoP when this story broke and I'll say it again now: I believe Tonya until proven otherwise. I always will. She deserves the benefit of the doubt.

But do I wish that there's some proof that this didn't happen the way it's been described and that Tonya was misinformed by her witnesses? Yes. Yes, I do (remember, based on the articles and lawsuit details, Tonya freely admits that she doesn't remember a thing and only found out later because people told her about it the next day). And why do I wish this? Because I hope an incapacitated woman wasn't sexually assaulted with witnesses in the vicinity who would rather wait until the next day to tell her instead of acting immediately.

 

Believe me, the reason I hope this isn't true isn't because I love Evan and Kenny. No, I hope it isn't true because I don't like women getting sexually assaulted. Period. Even if Tonya's accusations proved to be false, that wouldn't necessarily mean it was because she was LYING. When there's that much alcohol and careless behavior going around, it's foolish to say that there's not even a chance that this was a misunderstanding. Tonya's lawsuit, at the very least, made sure that things got investigated properly (we hope). With that many people and that many cameras around, I still can't see this getting buried if it really happened the way it was described.

 

All I've ever been interested in is the truth. I'm interested in justice. For all parties. I hope this horrific attack didn't happen to Tonya as it's been described (hell, I hope it didn't happen at all). If it did, I hope she's found some peace and a BIG payday. If it didn't, I hope it was because it was a big, big misunderstanding and NOT a money-grubbing lie. And if Evan and Kenny didn't do it, I do wish that they'd get their names cleared in the same way that they've been dragged through the mud.

 

But if they DID do it, then fuck those guys. And then, I'd also say fuck BMP ... if they covered this shit up, that would make me feel like an asshole for supporting them through 70 seasons of television (that's right ... 70) over the last 23 fucking years of my life.

 

But here it is, guys: The thing that has always bothered me, especially back at TWoP when this story broke, is that there were always a few aggitators that always made it feel that just because these guys (Evan, Kenny, Nanners, Derrick, et al.) act like arrogant fratboy jackass douchebags on a reality TV show (which they do, nobody's denying or defending that), that it's OK if these same guys get stigmatized and labeled as rapists EVEN IF THEY MAYBE, POSSIBLY DIDN'T DO IT. They are playing characters (or caricatures) based on themselves and apparently doing it very well, to the point where it sometimes sounded like people actually hoped they did it, just so they could justifiably hate them in real life.

 

The facts of the case are this: There was a settlement, the results were sealed, no one can legally talk about it. Evan and Kenny were not charged with anything. Yet people still flippantly in their posts said they did it. Called them rapists. Since we may never know what happened, that is extremely unfair.

 

This whole thing just stinks to high heaven. I'm sorry. I'm done. I need a shower.

[choclatechip45]

I always thought it was interesting in interviews Evan was always so judgmental of other cast members and now he has probably the worst reputation  because of the lawsuit.

[cincivic]

I have started to rewatch this season on Amazon. The whole Evan, Kenny and Johnny trio ( all 3 who I never once liked) just make me feel icky. Pompous arrogant. One person that stood out for me in a negative way is Johanna. What an entitled whench. Granted, I love me some Wes so I am a bit biased but Johanna was so obnoxious and witchy.

[luckyroll3]

Just finished the first 7 episodes, and I was reminded of how much I can't stand Johanna. I can't put my finger on what it is exactly about her that I don't like, but she annoys the fuck out of me and has since her RW season. 

 

As much as I want to respect Susie for her intelligence and managing to complete a PhD after all this, I just can't with her.  Especially when she mentions in her op-ed piece that there was lots of bullying on this season - she was there and participating in most of it.  She's another one that I've never liked.

 

Although I can't stand any of the Champion girls, it was nice to see Veronica not able to manipulate her way through the game.  However, watching her try to use sex to control Evan was interesting. 

 

Funny that the Ruins battle in episode 6 was the same scoot across the log one that we just saw on the Battle of the Exes this week.

[Bob Sambob]

One scene from this season that always stands out comes from the Veronica/Tonya altercation. Not the fight itself, but what comes after, particularly Wes' reaction.

 

I haven't seen it for a very long time, but the way I remember it, Veronica teased Tonya and took it one giant leap too far (whatever it was wasn't aired, but I remember word leaking out on MySpace at the time that Veronica was heckling her with dirt from the past, like an abortion or a rape or something that women shouldn't tease other women about), and Tonya slugged her. And it was at that point that Evan jumped up and pulled them apart. And it was very clear that in that moment, Evan realized that the way he and the other jackasses teased and shit on Tonya probably contributed to this (this was the season where we saw them throw the baby powder in her face when she was passed out, but they did it to Derrick too).

 

Anyway, the part that always stuck with me was Wes kind giving off the "what'd you expect?" vibe, and Evan saying something like "oh come on, it's all just fun and games. We all treat her like that," yet with a twinge of very subconscious guilt in there. And Wes just very calmly says, "I've never treated her like that. Neither has Brad. Neither has Cohutta." And Evan's face after that spoke volumes. For all the "innocent until proven guilty" stuff I've said earlier, this was the scene that always told me, hey, maybe they did or didn't do what they were accused of, but they certainly still treated her like shit.

[KerleyQ]

Anyway, the part that always stuck with me was Wes kind giving off the "what'd you expect?" vibe, and Evan saying something like "oh come on, it's all just fun and games. We all treat her like that," yet with a twinge of very subconscious guilt in there. And Wes just very calmly says, "I've never treated her like that. Neither has Brad. Neither has Cohutta." And Evan's face after that spoke volumes. For all the "innocent until proven guilty" stuff I've said earlier, this was the scene that always told me, hey, maybe they did or didn't do what they were accused of, but they certainly still treated her like shit.

 

 

I go back and forth on Wes at times, but that was one of the moments where I really liked him.  Evan was just so in that frat boy, cool kid, "well if me and my friends are doing this, it means 'everyone' is" bullying mentality. I liked that someone pointed out to him that, no, everyone wasn't doing it, and it's not cool, and that while he's trying to play big man breaking up the mess between the silly little girls, that mess was enabled by the way he and his cohorts treated a very obviously emotionally damaged woman.  

[choclatechip45]

 

Anyway, the part that always stuck with me was Wes kind giving off the "what'd you expect?" vibe, and Evan saying something like "oh come on, it's all just fun and games. We all treat her like that," yet with a twinge of very subconscious guilt in there. And Wes just very calmly says, "I've never treated her like that. Neither has Brad. Neither has Cohutta." And Evan's face after that spoke volumes. For all the "innocent until proven guilty" stuff I've said earlier, this was the scene that always told me, hey, maybe they did or didn't do what they were accused of, but they certainly still treated her like shit.

That was really the moment that I thought Evan/Kenny were  douche bags with no redeeming qualities which definitely made me believe the accusations might be true. Granted I never really liked Evan and I thought Kenny gave good confessionals and I find him attractive. It didn't help that they had a roundtable show after that episode aired and Kenny was like it's too bad Tonya didn't stay because she was a good competitor and we could have sent her in every time and she would have won.  That statement always pissed me off. The only reason why I do give Bananas the benefit of the doubt is because of how he acted on his season and  when Davis got punched.  Not too many straight guys on these shows would comfort a gay guy like he did. Plus I remember him crying after one of his fights with Paula were he really felt bad that he made her so upset.

Edited February 9, 2015 by choclatechip45

[fredj]

That was really the moment that I thought Evan/Kenny were  douche bags with no redeeming qualities which definitely made me believe the accusations might be true. Granted I never really liked Evan and I thought Kenny gave good confessionals and I find him attractive. It didn't help that they had an roundtable show after that episode aired and Kenny was like it's too bad Tonya didn't stay because she was a good competitor and we could have sent her in every time and she would have won.  That statement always pissed me off. The only reason why I do give Bananas the benefit of the doubt is because of how he acted on his season and  when Davis got punched.  Not too many straight guys on these shows would comfort a gay guy like he did. Plus I remember him crying after one of his fights with Paula were he really felt bad that he made her so upset.

 

yeah me too, that and when kenny was harassing sarah basically calling her a fat ass girl, and something along the lines on how no one will ever have sex with her made me dislike him even more.

I think kenny wants to comeback he is always rt, posting and liking things about the challenge on social media, unlike evan who seems more than over from the challenges, kenny keeps saying that he doesnt come back because bmp wouldn't pay him more money to do the challenge, which i find ridiculous and its most likely that he can't comeback because of everything that happened.

[choclatechip45]

 

yeah me too, that and when kenny was harassing sarah basically calling her a fat ass girl, and something along the lines on how no one will ever have sex with her made me dislike him even more.

I think kenny wants to comeback he is always rt, posting and liking things about the challenge on social media, unlike evan who seems more than over from the challenges, kenny keeps saying that he doesnt come back because bmp wouldn't pay him more money to do the challenge, which i find ridiculous and its most likely that he can't comeback because of everything that happened.

Evan seemed pretty over being on The Challenge during Rivals so I remember thinking that was probably his last challenge while Rivals was airing. I remember reading he had just finished grad school in Israel right before he went on Rivals. I also, remember an interview during Battle of The Seasons 2 where Evan said that everyone was paid the same on Rivals. I wouldn't be surprised if Kenny really did want to come back.

[KerleyQ]

I'd be surprised if Kenny didn't want to come back.  He's a famewhore, and this is really his only shot at fame.  

[Tatum]

 

I believe that Susie genuinely believes that it didn't happen.  However... How long was Tonya passed out?  Was Susie with Kenny and Evan the entire time Tonya was out of it?  I can't imagine that Tonya has a specific time of the evening that it happened, given that she was probably really, really out of it.  Susie may have been in the room with those guys for a big chunk of the night, but I'm guessing that, eventually, she went to sleep.

 

I agree. Hell, she wouldn't even have to go to sleep. She could have gotten up to use the bathroom or get another drink. It really doesn't take much time to violate someone with a toothbrush. Even though I dislike Susie, I don't believe she would stand by and watch that happen to someone. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen while her back was turned.

 

And I've heard some conflicting stories about the footage. Didn't Viacom at first focus on the technicalities, instead of saying the incident didn't happen, said something like Tonya couldn't sue them based on the fact that she was a resident of Washington and they were CA based, and the incident happened out of the country, and also, Tonya was not their employee? And then when a judge overruled them and said, hand over your tapes, they were like, uh, we don't have them anymore? I could swear I read that.

 

Tonya may be crazy, but if she was unconscious during the time frame, she has to have more evidence than just a random castmate telling her it happened, wouldn't she? I mean, she certainly seems convinced it happened.

 

Susie's essay about the disrespect in B/M world clearly indicates she does not believe Tonya, but then goes on to say that the culture in these houses clearly promotes disrespect and sexual aggression towards women. The underlying note in her essay appeared to me to be, anyone could be a victim as long as we are not talking about Tonya. It really rubbed me the wrong way. Obviously, she was there, I wasn't, she knows more about it than me. But I would not consider her an unbiased witness.

[luckyroll3]

The underlying note in her essay appeared to me to be, anyone could be a victim as long as we are not talking about Tonya. It really rubbed me the wrong way.

This is also what didn't sit well with me when I reread it, especially since I just watched the Ruins season.  She also gives the impression that she is an outsider watching everybody else display these behaviors, when in reality, she was right there with them for most of it, particularly the bullying. 

 

Even though I dislike Susie, I don't believe she would stand by and watch that happen to someone. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen while her back was turned.

I agree with this as well. 

 

It was interesting to notice that Evan didn't seem to fond of Bananas at all during this challenge. 

 

Even though I knew the outcome, I was still hoping that the two girls would have pulled off an upset and dominated the Champions in the final challenge.  It would have been so great to see the look on their faces when the two ladies they kept picking on walked off with all their money.   Damn them for shuffling throughout the entire balance challenge and losing their lead!!!

[choclatechip45]

 

It was interesting to notice that Evan didn't seem to fond of Bananas at all during this challenge.

It can be easily argued that Bananas won The Ruins and The Island because of his friendship with Kenny.  Everyone on the Champion's final  team besides Kenny  had an issue with Bananas during that Challenge.

 

RE Susie: I see why she would believe Kenny/Evan over Tonya. Tonya was always branded as a liar by the majority of cast members around the time of BOTS2/Inferno 2.  I have no idea if she lied about this sexual assault allegations I personally don't think she did. I can understand why Susie who spent time around her would believe Kenny/Evan word over Tonya's.

Edited February 13, 2015 by choclatechip45

[pakalolo]

Didn't MTV release a statement that basically said that the toothbrush incident was Tonya's fault because she was such a drunk ho? If they thought it never happened they could have just said they were there filming the entire night in question and saw nothing, but by blaming Tonya it seems to me they admit it happened. It just makes no sense to release a statement blaming someone for something that never even occurred.

[Tatum]

 

Didn't MTV release a statement that basically said that the toothbrush incident was Tonya's fault because she was such a drunk ho? If they thought it never happened they could have just said they were there filming the entire night in question and saw nothing, but by blaming Tonya it seems to me they admit it happened. It just makes no sense to release a statement blaming someone for something that never even occurred.

 

Technically, I think it was Viacom who said that. Also, I know I read somewhere that someone in production replaced the toothbrush in question- and that at the time, the owner of the toothbrush was considered the victim, not Tonya, in that little "prank". Perhaps that was never true, but I did read it.

 

I do believe it happened, if only because it's not even a he said/she said- Tonya couldn't swear to anything because she was unconscious, so therefore she can't be lying (she could be wrong, but not lying). So there must be something that makes her believe this happened. Plus, if whoever clued Tonya in on what happened provided such an accurate time stamp for the incident that Susie could swear on her life that she was there and it did not happen, why could production not just produce the tape from that time period and show that no such incident happened? Legal issues be damned- if someone accused me of sitting back and watching while someone else was raped, I would want to show that was not the case, even if it was decided I did not legally have to (Viacom's defense for not producing the tape was that they were not legally obligated to turn it over).

 

I mean, this appears to be such an open and shut case on the surface- alleged victim is not a credible source,  and can't swear to anything anyways, other so called witnesses deny any wrongdoing, etc. I mean, this would be like a defense attorney's wet dream (if this case were to go to criminal court, which obviously it wouldn't). Yet, there was evidently some kind of shred of evidence that kept this case going.

[xfuse]

 

So there must be something that makes her believe this happened. Plus, if whoever clued Tonya in on what happened provided such an accurate time stamp for the incident that Susie could swear on her life that she was there and it did not happen, why could production not just produce the tape from that time period and show that no such incident happened?

The first challenge I saw Tonya on she was looking for her cat that she packed in her luggage. So I have a hard time believing that just because she believes something that it did happen.

 

Not ever thing in the houses are taped. The hamsters have said more than once that the cameras goes where they believe the drama is happening. So if someone was fighting or making out somewhere else at that time than there might not have been anyone around her filming.

 

The case was settled and since no details were released we don't know if she even got a thing out of it. It might have been that the settlement was not to counter-sue her. It could have been both parties walks away and pays their own lawyers or she may have gotten a ton of money. Until the details are released I am not going to assume that she won.

Edited February 24, 2015 by xfuse

[Tatum]

 

The first challenge I saw Tonya on she was looking for her cat that she packed in her luggage. So I have a hard time believing that just because she believes something that it did happen.

 

I didn't say it happened because Tonya believed it happened, I said she believes it happened so she can't be lying (my post said she could be wrong, but not lying). My point was, regardless of what the truth is, I think Tonya believes it (vs. knowingly lying about it in an attempt to squeeze some money out of Viacom).

 

 

Not ever thing in the houses are taped. The hamsters have said more than once that the cameras goes where they believe the drama is happening. So if someone was fighting or making out somewhere else at that time than there might not have been anyone around her filming.

 

 From what I read, her accusation wasn't just that it happened, it was that it happened while being taped, and that no one, from the cameraman to the production crew, bothered to do anything about it and ignored her when she complained. If someone told her it happened in room A at time B, that should be easy enough to verify if they have that particular footage.

As far as what the settlement "proves", you're right, it proves nothing, but Viacom's reaction to the whole thing makes me think there's some truth to the accusation. Tonya is either a victim of a serious sexual assault, or a mentally ill woman who mistakenly believes she is the victim of a serious sexual assault, and either scenario deserves more compassion than a public and official statement saying that Tonya is a drunken slut who can't keep her clothes on or her legs closed on a bet and therefore deserved whatever she got. I never even heard Murray Productions or Viacom ever actually deny that they had footage of this incident, which seems like the place to start for me to refute a sexual assault liability claim.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Tatum

[rho]

Yeah, I was excited for Ruins when I heard the premise. I like that everyone had their own bank account and there was more at stake when you lose because of the bonus money on the line. But even watching it in real time before the suit was made public, I didn't care for any of it. I think I quit around e3 and to this day I've not gone back to watch it. The Island also had a unique premise but the politics were unbearable. I'd love to see the next season mix stuff up a bit, even moreso than a losers' bracket, but I'm sure these a-holes will just muck it up like they do with everything else. This is why we can't have nice things.

[choclatechip45]

 

The first challenge I saw Tonya on she was looking for her cat that she packed in her luggage. So I have a hard time believing that just because she believes something that it did happen.

Do you remember what Challenge this was?

[Tatum]

 

Do you remember what Challenge this was?

 

I don't remember this scene at all, but I haven't watched every season of the Challenge. From the benefit of hindsight though, you can see Tonya's mental health declining from her first challenge appearance (the original Battle of the Sexes) to The Ruins. Even just by the trailers they were posting prior to airing the show (Tonya falling down drunk, crying, etc) it was clear she was not in a good place and I know she's an adult, but I wish Murray would have been like, yeah, you might be ratings gold, but I think you need a mental health check before you can participate on this show again.

 

 

I remember it was hard to watch the Tonya/Veronica fight, only because Tonya had been a wreck throughout that whole season up until the fight.

I am generally team Tonya when it comes to her conflicts with Veronica, but I actually thought Veronica was pretty restrained during this season as she was kind of ostracized by the cool kids as well. In fact, while they have never released what it was that Veronica said to Tonya, someone on TWOP who had an inside track said that he/she had heard that Veronica kind of got a bum rap for that incident. Supposedly Tonya told Veronica something she considered confidential (in a quiet voice) which Veronica loudly repeated in disbelief, not realizing Tonya wanted to keep it quiet (speculation was that it involved a miscarriage, abortion, or a previous sexual assault) since Tonya was not in the habit of confiding in Veronica. When Veronica repeated her, Tonya got mad that veronica told her secret. I have no idea if that's true, but that's one explanation I heard.

 

Regardless, for Evan and Kenny to spend the whole time bullying and degrading Tonya and then turn around and blame Veronica for causing that breakdown was just maddening. Tonya was a hot mess before coming on to that season, and Evan and Kenny did their best to make it worse.

[TD3000]

I'm probably forgetting someone, but Tonya and Robin were the ones that stuck out to me as people who became too fragile to be on these Challenges. They both did a couple too many. But yeah, this was a terrible season mostly because of who ended up winning. We all know about JEK, but Susie kinda stayed under the radar during her Challenge run. I could never stand her; she just benefited from other people being around who were worse than her.

 

I really though Sarah and Kellyanne had that final, but instead they got hung up by a friggin' balance beam.

 

 

I am generally team Tonya when it comes to her conflicts with Veronica, but I actually thought Veronica was pretty restrained during this season as she was kind of ostracized by the cool kids as well.

 

Wasn't this Veronica's last Challenge? IIRC, she had been away from the show for a couple years. When she had her last hurrah on The Ruins, there were a lot of new faces, and she never had the run of the house like she used to. Even though I never liked Veronica's attitude (but was very much attracted to her), I sorta felt bad that the tables were turned on her.

[xfuse]

 

Do you remember what Challenge this was?

It was the first Fresh Meat. She was doing some things weird with her luggage/clothes and Coral talked about it on the after show.

[choclatechip45]

 

It was the first Fresh Meat. She was doing some things weird with her luggage/clothes and Coral talked about it on the after show.

Thanks I remember she also peed on Coral's bed and tried to blame Coral. Coral said it at the reunion.

[Decider]

I thought that was New Orleans Julie who peed on Coral's bed.

Edit: Both Julie and Tonya did?  Wow.  I don't remember when Tonya happened.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Decider

[choclatechip45]

 

I don't remember when Tonya happened.

Fresh Meat it was mentioned on the reunion show.

[whirlingdervish]

I don't really find Susie at all credible when it comes to Tonya.  After all, Susie was the one behind the whole "I hate Tonya" game.  In this charming little game,she and her little mean girls clique would stand around and each take turns saying "I hate Tonya because...".  IIRC, one of Susie's entries was, "I hate Tonya because she smells like a stripper."  She really took delight on putting Tonya down any chance she got, and she just oozed scorn for Tonya.  So, yeah, I would take anything Susie says about Tonya with a grain of salt.    

Edited March 4, 2015 by whirlingdervish

[xfuse]

While Susie is one of my least favourite hamsters I just don't think she would just let a sexual assault happens and not do or say anything no matter who it's happening to.  If she was in the room and said nothing happened than I do believe her. She has nothing to gain for covering it up.

[KerleyQ]

I still think it's most likely that she was in the room most of the night, and is just extending the benefit of the doubt to her friends versus Tonya, given her feelings towards her. 

[Tatum]

 

I'm only 4 episodes in, and I find just about everyone on the Champions team, save for 2 or 3, to be complete assholes.

 

Was The Ruins the season where Katie was walking around the bedroom, drunkenly ranting while swinging a toilet plunger around, and then kicked Sarah out of the room for laughing at her? And then everyone sat there silently and only defended Sarah after Katie had left?

 

That episode was notable to me only because I remember I sided with Katie at the time because I couldn't stand Sarah, and now I can't remember why I hated Sarah. It was not because she had a crush on Kenny. I mean, that was annoying, but that's not why I didn't like her. Yet, looking back, Katie was totally out of line to treat Sarah like that, whose only crime was to smile at a drunk swinging a toilet plunger around, and I didn't even like Katie. Sarah must have done something really annoying and I'm totally blanking on what, and I've liked her ever since the second Battle of the Seasons, when she volunteered to go into an elimination game with Chet just to prove to her team it was nothing to be scared of, and going in didn't mean going home. I thought that was cool.

 

My pet peeve (well, one of many), and Susie is one of the worst offenders, is when someone talks a big game about how if they go into an elimination game, their dead body will have to be carried out because they are not going home and how they feel sorry for anyone who has to go against them- and then they spend the whole day/week leading up to the elimination game scheming on how to avoid it altogether. Either go in and come back, or admit you're afraid of being eliminated and don't want to go in.