Monk - General Discussion

[shapeshifter]

36 minutes ago, Gramto6 said:

I don't get any channel that is showing Monk reruns... :{

Monk is on Amazon Prime. They let family members share access even if you don’t live together. 

[Gramto6]

1 minute ago, shapeshifter said:

Monk is on Amazon Prime. They let family members share access even if you don’t live together. 

Oh really? I have Amazon Prime...I've never watched anything there, guess I should check it out!! Thanks

[Salzmank]

On 12/1/2020 at 8:42 PM, Kromm said:

The apparently motiveless murder is a Hitchcock thing, even though I agree that it's not a MacGuffin.  See the exhibit named "Strangers on a Train".  The reason for things in that movie is only one of many ways to do an apparently motiveless murder, but I think it reinforces the idea that in Mystery fiction at least (unlike either reality or books that are Thrillers) there's always a motive somewhere.  You just have to find it. 

Oh, I should clarify that I didn’t mean the apparently-but-not-actually motiveless murder in general—which, as you say, is often a thing in mystery fiction—but rather the Monk writers’ specific solution to it: the motive is so that the killer can get his hands on something that will benefit him (e.g., will be worth a lot of money, will incriminate him, etc.). In other words, the killer has no real interest in seeing the victim dead, he just wants to get at something the victim has and kills to get it. 

Examples (spoilers) include “Mr. Monk Goes to the Ballgame” (in which the object is the record-breaking baseball), “…and the Very, Very Old Man” (the incriminating letter), and “…and the Paperboy” (the lottery numbers—just like that Murder, She Wrote episode I referenced), among many others. The writers were doing the same trick as late as Season 8’s “…and the Dog,” though in that one the question is why someone is trying to kill a dog.

I’m not complaining: it’s a good puzzle-plot device, and the writers get a lot of variation out of it. I just find it amusing that they repeated it so many times—now I think of it as “the Monk trick”!

[shapeshifter]

4 minutes ago, Salzmank said:

Oh, I should clarify that I didn’t mean the apparently-but-not-actually motiveless murder in general—which, as you say, is often a thing in mystery fiction—but rather the Monk writers’ specific solution to it: the motive is so that the killer can get his hands on something that will benefit him (e.g., will be worth a lot of money, will incriminate him, etc.). In other words, the killer has no real interest in seeing the victim dead, he just wants to get at something the victim has and kills to get it. 

Examples (spoilers) include “Mr. Monk Goes to the Ballgame” (in which the object is the record-breaking baseball), “…and the Very, Very Old Man” (the incriminating letter), and “…and the Paperboy” (the lottery numbers—just like that Murder, She Wrote episode I referenced), among many others. The writers were doing the same trick as late as Season 8’s “…and the Dog,” though in that one the question is why someone is trying to kill a dog.

I’m not complaining: it’s a good puzzle-plot device, and the writers get a lot of variation out of it. I just find it amusing that they repeated it so many times—now I think of it as “the Monk trick”!

IRL I would bet that most murders are committed for the Lennie Briscoe (L&O) reasons of jealousy, revenge, or money. But Monk (as Stottlemeyer is won’t to say) gets called in whenever they have “a particularly difficult crime to solve.” 
So, yes, it is his “Monk trick.” 🙂

[Salzmank]

59 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

IRL I would bet that most murders are committed for the Lennie Briscoe (L&O) reasons of jealousy, revenge, or money. But Monk (as Stottlemeyer is won’t to say) gets called in whenever they have “a particularly difficult crime to solve.” 
So, yes, it is his “Monk trick.” 🙂

Well, Orbach’s Briscoe’s right: even the Monk get-at-something-victim-owns motive ultimately gets back to jealousy, revenge, or money—it’s just covered up! 🙂

Edited December 3, 2020 by Salzmank

[tessaray]

Monk is on Peacock. Though I paid for the cheapest premium level it looks like Monk is on the free level. 

[shapeshifter]

47 minutes ago, tessaray said:

Monk is on Peacock. Though I paid for the cheapest premium level it looks like Monk is on the free level. 

I have free Peacock. Seasons 1-3 are available, so, no Natalie.

[tessaray]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I have free Peacock. Seasons 1-3 are available, so, no Natalie.

I did read that they would be rotating the free stuff, so it couldn't hurt to keep an eye out. The $5/mo plan might be worth it if you wanted to binge some of the old USA shows.

[Browncoat]

It's Sunday morning -- Monk is on Sundance.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Browncoat said:

It's Sunday morning -- Monk is on Sundance.

That reminds me that in 15 minutes The CW will begin this Sunday's mini-marathon of 4 Monk episodes, starting this week with 4.10 "Mr. Monk Goes to a Fashion Show."

 

 

 

[peacheslatour]

32 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

That reminds me that in 15 minutes The CW will begin this Sunday's mini-marathon of 4 Monk episodes, starting this week with 4.10 "Mr. Monk Goes to a Fashion Show."

 

 

 

Is that the one where Julie becomes a model?

[shapeshifter]

52 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Is that the one where Julie becomes a model?

Yes. Malcolm McDowell guest stars. Randy and Natalie have some comedic moments when they are hoping to get "noticed." 

 

[peacheslatour]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes. Malcolm McDowell guest stars. Randy and Natalie have some comedic moments when they are hoping to get "noticed." 

 

Stottlemeyer knocks the cigarette off of Randy's face.

Edited December 6, 2020 by peacheslatour

[LexieLily]

8 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Stottlemeyer knocks the cigarette off of Randy's face.

So THAT is where that scene in the opening credits comes from!

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, LexieLily said:

14 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Stottlemeyer knocks the cigarette off of Randy's face.

So THAT is where that scene in the opening credits comes from

Yes. And yet it’s still funnier seeing it in context, which is the opposite of when I’ve seen previews for a bit on a show like The Big Bang Theory, even though it won as many Emmys. 
Ted Levine’s (Leland Stottlemeyer) timing and Jason Gray-Stanford’s (Randy Disher) facial expressions! 
A show like Monk no doubt required great camera work and directing and editing, which also meant those elements were ready to make the most of all scenes.

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by shapeshifter

[Gramto6]

Both Monk and Frasier have stories that live through time. The humor still works today and will work tomorrow. Watching a Christmas episode of Frasier on Cozi tonight I really laughed out loud...it felt so good!!

[peacheslatour]

11 hours ago, Gramto6 said:

Both Monk and Frasier have stories that live through time. The humor still works today and will work tomorrow. Watching a Christmas episode of Frasier on Cozi tonight I really laughed out loud...it felt so good!!

The one with the masseur or the one with Martin in the play? I watched them both last night. You're right, timeless classics.

[Gramto6]

8 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

The one with the masseur or the one with Martin in the play? I watched them both last night. You're right, timeless classics.

The one with Martin in the play.  When Niles was up in the apartment to get something for allergies in his Jesus costume and Frazier comes around the corner with new girlfriend (they are pretending to be Jewish..) Frasier yells out Jesus! when he sees Niles and I laughed out loud so hard! Almost spit my drink on my laptop!

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Gramto6 said:

The one with Martin in the play.  When Niles was up in the apartment to get something for allergies in his Jesus costume and Frazier comes around the corner with new girlfriend (they are pretending to be Jewish..) Frasier yells out Jesus! when he sees Niles and I laughed out loud so hard! Almost spit my drink on my laptop!

Lol, my DH was in the kitchen during that scene, so he couldn't see the screen that well and he goes "Is that Eric Stoltz?"

[Salzmank]

On 12/7/2020 at 10:55 PM, Gramto6 said:

Both Monk and Frasier have stories that live through time. The humor still works today and will work tomorrow. Watching a Christmas episode of Frasier on Cozi tonight I really laughed out loud...it felt so good!!

I wonder if there’s a lot of crossover between Monk fans and Frasier fans… Judging from the reaction to your post, all of us here are fans of both! Frasier is, I think, my favorite TV comedy ever. The writing and acting—and even, though admittedly on a TV-sitcom level, direction (making a few sets look that visually interesting must have taken such skill)—are consistently brilliant.

Something both shows have in common is complex plotting: Monk almost out of necessity because it’s a mystery show, Frasier probably because most (all?) of the writers came from the theater and were used to elaborate farces and complexities. (A “well-made” play and an Agatha Christie-style mystery have a lot in common.) I don’t know if that’s what attracts us all to both shows, but I don’t think that, for the most part, the shows’ styles of humor are all that similar or anything like that. Hmm…

And, yes, I was watching those two Christmas Frasiers Monday as well. While the masseur one has many good things, “Merry Christmas, Mrs. Moskowitz” is one of my favorite episodes of any show. In an episode filled with great lines (as usual), one throwaway I particularly love is how Niles nonchalantly says, “OK,” when Frasier tells him to pretend that they’re Jewish. Also, Faye Moskowitz (Amy Brenneman) is by far my favorite Frasier girlfriend.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Also, Faye Moskowitz (Amy Brenneman) is by far my favorite Frasier girlfriend.

Mine too. Although I must say I warmed up to Lorna after a while. I did not like her at all at first but she grew on me. And I loved her kid, especially when he had the goods on those horrible high school snots that had a panel spot on his radio show.

[shapeshifter]

On the outside chance that y’all didn’t know and do want to, here’s the link to the Frasier thread: https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/89641-frasier/page/5/

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by shapeshifter

[Salzmank]

So, I’m not trying to turn the conversation here in the Monk thread away from Monk—honest!—but did anyone here watch Netflix’s one-season The Good Cop? With Tony Danza and Josh Groban as father and son detectives. Monk creator Andy Breckman also created it and brought several Monk writers along.

I’m watching “Who Killed the Guy on the Ski Lift?” (Episode 7 of 10) now, and… Ehh, I can see why Netflix canceled it after only one season. Judging from this episode—and from reviews—it’s certainly not as accomplished as Monk, though it’s clearly the same writers. The comedy is surprisingly weak—I’ll have to see about the mystery as it goes on.

Anyway, apropos of what we were talking about before, the show basically seems like Frasier as filtered through a Monk sensibility! 😄

EDIT: Actually, I’ve changed my mind. The writing isn’t actually that weak (some of the lines could be funny)—the acting is. It just goes to show how much Monk was made by Shalhoub et al.’s performances. Danza’s comic timing is good, as is to be expected, but Groban and the entire supporting cast’s is atrocious. 

EDIT 2: So, it’s not good. The killer’s identity was obvious, and I spotted every clue. Ehh, at least it had clues, right…? But mostly it just doesn’t work as a show.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Salzmank

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Salzmank said:

but did anyone here watch Netflix’s one-season The Good Cop? With Tony Danza and Josh Groban as father and son detectives. Monk creator Andy Breckman also created it and brought several Monk writers along.

Yes. I wanted to like it so much that I think I watched every episode. Very forgettable. 
Monk, OTOH, is one of those shows that is better each time you watch. 
Although there are some episodes’ villains that I really don’t like to watch, like Dale the Whale. And the lady that tries to mold amnesiac Monk into her roofer husband. But even those actors are excellent. 

[Gramto6]

29 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes. I wanted to like it so much that I think I watched every episode. Very forgettable. 
Monk, OTOH, is one of those shows that is better each time you watch. 
Although there are some episodes’ villains that I really don’t like to watch, like Dale the Whale. And the lady that tries to mold amnesiac Monk into her roofer husband. But even those actors are excellent. 

Monk is a classic, the show the story each live on years beyond the story. They are classic in their stories. It is one of my favorite shows. See the Frasier Thread for more.

[ifionlyknew]

21 hours ago, Salzmank said:

I wonder if there’s a lot of crossover between Monk fans and Frasier fans… Judging from the reaction to your post, all of us here are fans of both! Frasier is, I think, my favorite TV comedy ever. The writing and acting—and even, though admittedly on a TV-sitcom level, direction (making a few sets look that visually interesting must have taken such skill)—are consistently brilliant.

I am a fan of both shows. I did a rewatch of each just a couple years ago.  They both had excellent writing and their casts were great.  It's hard to imagine any other actors playing any of the roles. Also both shows did some things differently than most shows would have done.  Stottlemeyer was an ally of Monk.  Most shows would have made him an antagonist.  Niles fell for Daphne.  Most shows would have had Frasier fall for her.  And on both shows supporting characters (which IMO they were all lead characters) were allowed to shine and had their own stories.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

And the lady that tries to mold amnesiac Monk into her roofer husband. But even those actors are excellent. 

You mean Laurie Metcalf?  Jackie from Roseanne? Mary Cooper from The Big Bang Theory? That lady?

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

You mean Laurie Metcalf?  Jackie from Roseanne? Mary Cooper from The Big Bang Theory? That lady?

Yep. She who has "...won three Primetime Emmy Awards, two Tony Awards, and has been nominated for an Academy Award and British Academy Film Award..." (Wikipedia).

Edited December 11, 2020 by shapeshifter

[LexieLily]

13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Although there are some episodes’ villains that I really don’t like to watch, like Dale the Whale. And the lady that tries to mold amnesiac Monk into her roofer husband. But even those actors are excellent. 

That is probably one of my least favorite villain's just because she wasn't held accountable for what she did. 

[Mikita]

Agreed. As much as I love Laurie Metcalf, I hated that character. So disgusting and was never accountable for what she did to Monk.

[peacheslatour]

52 minutes ago, Mikita said:

Agreed. As much as I love Laurie Metcalf, I hated that character. So disgusting and was never accountable for what she did to Monk.

It was an odd episode. It didn't really fit with rest of the show.

[LexieLily]

2 hours ago, Mikita said:

Agreed. As much as I love Laurie Metcalf, I hated that character. So disgusting and was never accountable for what she did to Monk.

Even though it all happened in Wyoming and not San Francisco, I was surprised there wasn't a line by Stottlemeyer that he was going to check and see what would or could happen to her, legally. Or something.

Edited December 12, 2020 by LexieLily

[shapeshifter]

21 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Even though it all happened in Wyoming and not San Francisco, I was surprised there wasn't a line by Stottlemeyer that he was going to check and see what would or could happen to her, legally. Or something.

I wondered about that until now that you've mentioned it was out of state, so not his jurisdiction. 
Also, this fits with my theory that every episode of Monk has one plot point that makes no sense.

 

[LexieLily]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I wondered about that until now that you've mentioned it was out of state, so not his jurisdiction. 
Also, this fits with my theory that every episode of Monk has one plot point that makes no sense.

I also know it wasn't the point of the episode but you'd think that officers of the law in particular would want to make sure that lady faced some consequence.

[peacheslatour]

28 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

I also know it wasn't the point of the episode but you'd think that officers of the law in particular would want to make sure that lady faced some consequence.

False imprisonment for sure.

[Mabinogia]

On 12/11/2020 at 1:39 AM, shapeshifter said:

Although there are some episodes’ villains that I really don’t like to watch, like Dale the Whale.

I tend to not rewatch Dale the Whale eps. I generally don't like arch-villains in these kind of shows, like Ying Yang killer on Psych. They feel out of place on a more fun, lighthearted mystery show for me. 

[LexieLily]

 

5 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I tend to not rewatch Dale the Whale eps. I generally don't like arch-villains in these kind of shows, like Ying Yang killer on Psych. They feel out of place on a more fun, lighthearted mystery show for me. 

Dale The Whale didn't work for me simply because they spent the first seven seasons making a big deal of him (potentially) having information - names, even - about the people invovled in Trudy's murder and in the end Dale and his adversarial history with Monk and Trudy had nothing to do with the murder at all.

Edited December 13, 2020 by LexieLily

[Salzmank]

Oh, this interested me… I watched another episode of The Good Cop tonight on the chance that it may be better—and it was. More to the point, though, the writer (an old hand from Monk, as all the Good Cop writers were) used that same Monk trick I was going on about above: apparently motiveless murder, but the murderer killed the victim to gain access to something that victim had.

I’m not going to say what episode it was just in case anyone wants to see the show, but I find it quite something that they used that same solution again!

What I will also say is that this episode is marvelously clued—at least as well as some of the best Monks. This one restored my faith in the Monk writers.

Also, I feel bad for Monica Barbaro, who plays Groban’s love interest. She’s quite good in this (and, er, very attractive), but the show around her flopped, so she’ll get no credit for that.

[Mikita]

Currently watching Mr. Monk and the Foreign Man. Sad but full of laughter. Monk teaching Samuel to wash American style. LMAO! Always one of my favorite episodes to watch.

[peacheslatour]

11 minutes ago, Mikita said:

Currently watching Mr. Monk and the Foreign Man. Sad but full of laughter. Monk teaching Samuel to wash American style. LMAO! Always one of my favorite episodes to watch.

Mine too. And that woman's expression! "Um, nobody washes their clothes like that, you weirdo."

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

2 hours ago, Mikita said:

Currently watching Mr. Monk and the Foreign Man. Sad but full of laughter. Monk teaching Samuel to wash American style. LMAO! Always one of my favorite episodes to watch.

Mine too.

My favorite part is the interactions with Natalie when he thinks she's so funny. IRL I doubt he'd be in such a good mood after his beloved wife had just been killed, but it's not real life.

[LexieLily]

The episode itself was sweet and Samuel was towards the top of the list for me as far as guest-stars, but the reasoning for the murder was stupid. The murderer drove his company van to someone's house to murder her because while he was on the phone with his friend's housekeeper he accidentally ran over someone and thought that the housekeeper would rat him out? Why did the housekeeper answer her employer's cell phone when he was on vacation in the first place?

[shapeshifter]

15 hours ago, LexieLily said:

Why did the housekeeper answer her employer's cell phone when he was on vacation in the first place?

I thought the housekeeper answered the landline that he called from his cell phone. No?

[LexieLily]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I thought the housekeeper answered the landline that he called from his cell phone. No?

I doublechecked the Monk Wiki and this is what it says in the plot description - Kenneth Nichols was drunk driving last night, he called his friend John Buxton but he wasn't at home. He had gone on vacation and had left his mobile phone behind so Maria Fuentes answered the phone. Nichols and Maria talked for a while when Nichols accidentally sped a red light and killed Ansara.

[LexieLily]

Monk always solved the case and the Core Four always ended up getting the guy in the end, but would have been an interesting change and something different if one time they didn't. An episode where Monk won without the team getting the full win would be an episode I would have been interested in seeing - what if Monk figured out who the killer was and Stottlemeyer collected all of the appropriate evidence and warrants for the arrest, but the episode ended with Stottlemeyer's higher-up telling him that their prime suspect fled the country and can't be found?

[Salzmank]

13 hours ago, LexieLily said:

Monk always solved the case and the Core Four always ended up getting the guy in the end, but would have been an interesting change and something different if one time they didn't. An episode where Monk won without the team getting the full win would be an episode I would have been interested in seeing - what if Monk figured out who the killer was and Stottlemeyer collected all of the appropriate evidence and warrants for the arrest, but the episode ended with Stottlemeyer's higher-up telling him that their prime suspect fled the country and can't be found?

Or Natalie—or Stottlemeyer, or even Disher (!)—solving the case. That’d be a small but, I think, nice change on formula.

[shapeshifter]

Near the end of the series, as they wrap up storylines (and kudos for them doing this so well), at the end of "Mr. Monk and the Badge" (11/20/2009,  Season 8 / Episode 14 ) in which-- 

Quote

At long last, Monk finally returns to the police force, but finds it much more difficult than he envisioned when he becomes embroiled in the case of a serial killer that's terrorizing the city and killing its citizens in grisly fashion.

--after Monk gets off of the scaffolding and resigns to his superior officer (and becomes "former, former, former Detective Adrian Monk) -- disoriented from swinging around a high rise with a deranged window washer, he stumbles off down the street in what struck me as a manner mimicking Charlie Chaplin.  
 

 

 

34 minutes ago, Salzmank said:

Or Natalie—or Stottlemeyer, or even Disher (!)—solving the case. That’d be a small but, I think, nice change on formula.

I think there's a couple of cases in which Natalie is the first to notice key evidence. I recall noticing that recently but not which episode (currently I'm living in over-the-air TV Monk land, heh).

But I was kind of looking to see if Randy ever did anything to warrant his end-of-series promotion in NJ, and noticed in "Mr. Monk and His Biggest Fan" that Randy took down the murder-rampaging perp with a Janga move in the lumber warehouse. 

That episode also has a good example of something happening that makes no sense (which I maintain is contained in every Monk episode) in that the Mother of the little boy who spends the day with Randy pays $300 for that purpose. 

[Mikita]

39 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I think there's a couple of cases in which Natalie is the first to notice key evidence. I recall noticing that recently but not which episode (currently I'm living in over-the-air TV Monk land, heh).

One that I can think of is Mr. Monk and the Rapper. Natalie immediately told Monk that she didn't think that it was Murderess. She stated her reasons why. Adrian was dismissive and asked why she thought that. Natalie said she had a hunch. He dismissed that and she replied he get's hunches sometimes.  

Then when they leave the recording session, Denny came out of the building to tell Monk about the "guy" that was hanging around the garage the night before the limo exploded. As soon as he left, Natalie said he's the guy. Monk replied another hunch? Natalie was right! I think there are more episodes but this one always stood out to me because she immediately knew who didn't do it and who did do it once she met Denny.

[LexieLily]

2 hours ago, Salzmank said:

Or Natalie—or Stottlemeyer, or even Disher (!)—solving the case. That’d be a small but, I think, nice change on formula.

In the episode where the high school stalker/bully of Natalie killed his father and stepmother (the neighbors of Natalie's parents) Natalie was the first to determine that there was no cell phone service up in the spot where the car crash happened meaning the father couldn't have called for help like Paul/the police report said. Natalie found the evidence that proved the father returned to the house that night and didn't die in the car crash.

[peacheslatour]

7 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

In the episode where the high school stalker/bully of Natalie killed his father and stepmother (the neighbors of Natalie's parents) Natalie was the first to determine that there was no cell phone service up in the spot where the car crash happened meaning the father couldn't have called for help like Paul/the police report said. Natalie found the evidence that proved the father returned to the house that night and didn't die in the car crash.

That was such a funny episode. Monk was a great butler.