The West Wing Season One: Stuck in Neutral

[Kohola3]

Mandy was definitely not a good fit for the group which had some really wonderful chemistry.  

I remember being just blown away in the first episode where POTUS didn't even show up until the last 5 minutes.  That was just brilliant.  And even more shocking to me was reading (way back then) that WW was essentially planned to be The Sam Searborn show until Martin Sheen showed his incredible talents.  I, for one, think they certainly went the right direction!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Taking a break, with the beginning of Season five.

But, back to this:

17 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

I remember being just blown away in the first episode where POTUS didn't even show up until the last 5 minutes.  That was just brilliant.  And even more shocking to me was reading (way back then) that WW was essentially planned to be The Sam Searborn show until Martin Sheen showed his incredible talents.  I, for one, think they certainly went the right direction!

It turns out I did watch the first three seasons! Ahem.

I've always liked Rob Lowe as an actor. I think he's decent. But really, for me, there's no comparison between him and Martin Sheen, who is eons better. And I totally agree, hearing Sheen's voice as Bartlet in the last five minutes and him giving the smack down, so richly deserved, to the extreme far right woman, who felt so entitled and thought the President of the UNITED STATES owed her anything, just peeved me. I'd feel the same way if it had been someone on the far left or any other spectrum. His telling the story of what was sent to his granddaughter, disgusted me, so I cheered his taking her down and kicking her out.

Then there was the whole Sam trying to make Laurie stop being a prostitute/call girl, and not getting it that because of where he worked and who his boss was, why he couldn't continue to see her.  And I don't know if I'm in the minority, but I just didn't feel sorry for Laurie. Oh boo hoo, she can't afford law school, so she has to pay for it by selling her body, so I have to sympathize? And there there her, because she didn't have any other choice?  There are so many girls/boys/women who feel they don't have any other choice and have to to do this.

At the same time, I was very irritated with Sam telling her to stop or do something else. Because you know, it was her life and her decision. I just wonder, if she ever thought, after she becomes a lawyer, that she'd come across a lot of the men who had been her clients? And how long she could work in DC? 

Edited October 11, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[Kohola3]

5 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And how long she could work in DC? 

I would think she'd have to move away AND practice law that would not bring her into contact with former clients. And that might explain why she was never mentioned again.

[Kohola3]

In Excelsis Deo.  Watched for the umpteenth time and was sobbing 3/4 of the way through anticipation of the final scene.  One of the best of all time, in any show, for any series.  Brilliant.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, Kohola3 said:

In Excelsis Deo.  Watched for the umpteenth time and was sobbing 3/4 of the way through anticipation of the final scene.  One of the best of all time, in any show, for any series.  Brilliant.

Yep. Just saw it for the second time last night (Hey! I just started watching and after the awfulness of the post-Sorkin era,) I went back to rewatch, and now I'm watching the pilot for the third time, I think.

And really, aside from Donna, I don't think I found anything wrong with the first season.

[Moose135]

Seven seasons of TWW, and In Excelsis Deo is my favorite episode.  Toby was always my favorite character, and as a veteran, the story about the homeless vet struck a nerve.

I love it when Toby explains to Jed what he was doing, and Jed asks "you don't think every homeless veteran would come out of the woodwork?" I get choked up when Toby answers "I can only hope, sir."  And then when he walks out of the Oval Office, and Mrs. Landingham asks to come along, I'm gone.

My Dad passed away a month ago, and he was a WWII vet, serving in the Army Air Forces.  He was buried in a National Cemetery, and watching the two soldiers fold the US flag and give it to Mom, I was reminded of the scene at Arlington.  It was already a moving scene, and I know it's going to be tough to watch next time.

[Bastet]

My condolences on the loss of your father, Moose.

I love that episode, so much it's near impossible to choose a favorite moment, but Toby's "I can only hope, Sir" answer is definitely in the running.  Also Richard Schiff's line delivery when Toby says he's a very influential person.

[Moose135]

Thank you, Bastet.

[Kohola3]

My condolences as well, Moose.  My dad, a WWII Navy vet, died 3 years ago.  He did not have a military funeral but I was the medical escort for Honor Flight Michigan and we took almost 1400 WWII vets to the WWII Memorial and Arlington for free.  Seeing Arlington always moved me to tears and I was there 33 times!  

I also echo your and Bastet's feeling for that very simple line spoken by Toby.  If only the rest of the world felt that our vets deserved the very best of everything.  I'm a member of two Angel groups that support active duty troops but there isn't a whole lot out there for returning vets or homeless ones.  That's a crime.

Mrs. Landingham flinching at the gun salute - I am already a mess by then but when I see that the sobs just escalate.  A brilliant episode.

[Guest]

Sorry for your loss, @Moose135.

@GHScorpiosRule, not even Mandy? :)  To me, she was the biggest flaw in the first season.

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 hours ago, deaja said:

 

@GHScorpiosRule, not even Mandy? :)  To me, she was the biggest flaw in the first season.

Of course I couldn't stand Mandy, either. But since I went on a huge rant about her in one of my initial posts, I thought it would be redundant to name her again!

[oceanblue]

I'm so sorry about the loss of your dad, Moose. We did the military service for my dad too and the flag reminded me of Mrs. Landingham too.  My favorite part of that episode was her telling Charlie about the loss of her sons.   So perfectly executed by Kathryn Joosten.

[Kohola3]

Quote

So perfectly executed by Kathryn Joosten.

You know, they were so young, Charlie, they were your age. It's hard when that happens so far away, you know because, with the noises and the shooting, they had to be so scared. It's hard not to think that right then they needed their mother... Anyway, I miss my boys.

Talk about a spot on delivery.  She was so calm and matter-of-fact about it = I think that made the lines that much more shocking.  I remember gasping and then bursting into tears the first time.  Just anticipating that moment makes me cry every time I rewatch it.

[twinkietwin94]

17 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

You know, they were so young, Charlie, they were your age. It's hard when that happens so far away, you know because, with the noises and the shooting, they had to be so scared. It's hard not to think that right then they needed their mother... Anyway, I miss my boys.

Talk about a spot on delivery.  She was so calm and matter-of-fact about it = I think that made the lines that much more shocking.  I remember gasping and then bursting into tears the first time.  Just anticipating that moment makes me cry every time I rewatch it.

I was just listening to this episode of West Wing Weekly yesterday and just the audio of this moment had me in tears well that and Richard Schiff crying. I love this episode!

[Kohola3]

Richard Schiff won a richly deserved Emmy for that episode.  Toby wasn't always easy for me to like but I ended up adoring him.

[GHScorpiosRule]

So, I'm watching the first season again on my brand spankin' new dvds (to make sure none are damaged/defective) and here are a few thoughts...

"Five Votes Down" is among one of my favorite episodes if only because of Bartlet taking both Percocet and Vicodin and being all loopy and calling Sam Toby, and then "Toby, Toby, Toby, Toby..." and then hugging Toby. But the best was "I wasn't supposed to take 'em both?"

I know if I'd taken them both, I would have been knocked out. I loved how Martin Sheen played that. And he says that's one of his favorite scenes!

Now, onto "Lord John Marbury"

Sigh. Let me preface this by saying that I'm of East Indian descent, and so I had a few...issues, with how India was...represented. Because I'm also the daughter of a man who was Captain in the Indian Army. 

I know that Sorkin said he got the idea to do this story because India had tested her own nuclear weapons about two years before this episode aired. I recall hearing about that, and how...unhappy the United States was.

I want to give credit to both Martin Sheen and John Spencer, for being able to pronounce Pakistan correctly.  But Lord Have Mercy. Kashmir. It's not pronounced like the sweater Cashmere!!! It's Kash-meeeer. And then Agni (Fire) is supposed to be "Uhgnee." I admit, I have less patience when the words are fairly easy to pronounce and they don't do it.

And why does Zito have to be such an arrogant asshole ratbastard prick?

And I really did love Josh's smackdown of Congressman Wick in "Five Votes Down" because oh, boo-hoo, he's only had ONE photo op with the president and looks weak.

I wonder if Sorkin and his researchers were aware how ironic the line from the Chinese Ambassador was-- "India must be stopped."  Considering India had also been at war with China.

Yes, India is the evuhl aggressor and Pakistan are poor, defenseless people, fighting for their human rights. There will never be any resolution between these two countries over Kashmir.

[Moose135]

17 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

"Five Votes Down" is among one of my favorite episodes if only because of Bartlet taking both Percocet and Vicodin and being all loopy and calling Sam Toby, and then "Toby, Toby, Toby, Toby..." and then hugging Toby. But the best was "I wasn't supposed to take 'em both?"

I'm seriously thinking about getting a dog.

[GHScorpiosRule]

"You're really sexy when you're in Doctor mode, you know that?"

"I could jump you right now..."

"I could kill you right now."

"My thing's more fun."

Me: LOLOLOLOLOL.

[GHScorpiosRule]

So, I'm reading Deborah's recap of "Lord John Marbury" and I loooooove that she hates Mandy as much as I do:

"

Sam: All right, we'll be even. 
Mandy (as she leaves his office): Sam... 
Sam: All right, I'll do this and many more favours for you and we'll be even. 
Mandy: Thank you.

Yeesh. Is there anyone in the White House you'd less rather owe a favour? What's she done for him, anyway? Also, Moira Kelly's accent is really getting on my nerves. I'm aware she probably can't help it but honestly, her manner of speaking is so annoying I need to carp about it anyway."

And *sniff*, I'm all verklempt and teary-eyed seeing the navigation bar of TWoP! 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Another gem from Deborah:

"Toby's head is propped up on his chin, eyeballs glued to the laptop screen. Mandy the pest (psst! Mandy...over here...you should hook up with Danny) ["I thought the same thing!" -- Strega]"

"Enemies"

[GHScorpiosRule]

GAH!!! I still believe it was a mistake to rehire that twit who leaked/gave Leo's file to Zito Claypool.  She should have had Security surround and march her out the doors ? and I would have loved it if she had tripped and her box fell to the ground with her splat on top, and hastily dumping her shit back in her box ? while Security loomed over her stupid ass.

[GHScorpiosRule]

So I'm reading the recaps after I watch the episode and I'm surprised the errors that Strega and Deborah made weren't caught and corrected.

I can't recall which one Deborah made, but since I just finished watching and reading "Take out the trash Day", and it was still fresh in my mind, the other blonde talking about that traitor Karen Larsen (who handed over Leo's file to that hack/asshole Zito Claypool), was Ginger, and not the other Nancy, who was played by Rene Estevez. I believe Strega referred her to as the "Sheen-spawn."

[twinkietwin94]

Snow day here which has for me prompted a rewatch from the start (hmm that seemed a bit of an Ainsely cadence and I'm not even close to any of her episodes yet)  Probably will repeat things said before possibly even by me but as thoughts come I feel the need to comment

Pilot:

Love love love Toby's "You're telling me I can flummox this thing with something I bought at Radio Shack... also I never got my peanuts."

CJ's fall on the treadmill

The Sam/Lori storyline doesn't bug in the pilot alone, it's after that it gets to me.

UGH Mandy

Leo's long walk, calling the president a geek in the Oval Office and being admonished by Mrs. Landingham, sigh

REALLY Sam doesn't have any idea who Leo's daughter is, really? every damn time this gets to me, and really he hit on Leo's wife? 

The argument over the commandments, I love PB's entrance but I kept expecting Caldwell to jump in to correct the other guy, and what always got me was I learned honor they father and they mother as the fourth commandment not the third. 1) though shalt have no other god before me, 2) thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain 3) remember the sabbath day and keep it holy, 4) honor thy father and thy mother that it may be well with thee and thou mayest live long on the earth.  Yeah 10 years of Lutheran school and between church and school 4 years of confirmation instruction. Which has always left me wondering if the commandments are taught in a different order in Judaism or in other Christian denominations. 

[twinkietwin94]

Proportional Response - you know for all the Mandy hate, and I never liked her much I have to say the scene with her and Josh in Josh's office was actually really nice, it's too bad there wasn't more of that Mandy

[oceanblue]

Sam not knowing the approximate age of Leo's daughter is stupid.  On a campaign you spend 20 hours a day together.  You know stuff about each other.  He'd know her name was Mallory, he'd know she was closer to 28 than 8.   They all know Leo well enough to walk through fire with him.  It was silly.

[Bastet]

Sam, having met Jenny (since he hit on her), and thus knowing Leo is married to an age-appropriate woman rather than a trophy wife, thinks Leo's daughter is in elementary school? 

No.  That is why, even setting aside the inherent lunacy of Mallory - who lives near the District and spends time with Leo - never having run into Sam during one of these visits during their entire first year in office, never mind the equal improbability of people who are in each others' back pockets during a campaign never having mentioned family to the point Sam knew the very basics of Leo's life, I cannot fanwank that story line into anything other than crap.  It makes for a funny scene - although, even then, we must set aside the improbability of a political operative with a campaign and a year in office under his belt telling who he thinks is a random school teacher (who can run to the press) that he slept with a prostitute - but it's so utterly unbelievable I can't get past it.

[oceanblue]

Agreed. Mentioning you have a child is not being touchy feely.   Sam might not know Mallory is a teacher, but he would know she's not 8.  And then just a bit later we have be big night out with Sam, Charlie and Josh, and Mallory and Zoe are easily fitting in as part of the gang.  

[Kohola3]

"Well this is bad on so many levels".  Despite the ridiculous circumstances, the delivery of that line just cracked me up.

Edited January 22, 2017 by Kohola3

[twinkietwin94]

As a teacher I've had students who had mothers who waited a long time to have kids or had a second family so while it's HIGHLY unlikely that Leo and Jenny would have an 8 yr old, it's not completely out of the realm of possibility. It really for me comes back to the fact that they've all been working together for at least two years at this point. Leo was Secretary of something (sorry can't remember what), it's the "worst kept secret" in DC that he's an alcoholic but no one knows how old his daughter is? Mallory and Zoe act as if they are old friends, clearly Jed and Abby treat her as if they've known her most if not all of her life. I find it incredibly hard to believe that she wouldn't have made an appearance at some event in the two years since they all joined the campaign. She lives near DC obviously as she teaches somewhere nearby and she never made it to any of the inaugural events? I understand that they're making it that she really starts spending more time around the WH after her parents split but she seems to walk in and out pretty freely which would mean the guards would have to know who she is and that she has clearance to be there, if the guards do how does Sam not?

Though I do admit to loving Rob's delivery of the line "Well this is bad on so many levels." 

[Anela]

On 10/19/2016 at 10:47 PM, Moose135 said:

Seven seasons of TWW, and In Excelsis Deo is my favorite episode.  Toby was always my favorite character, and as a veteran, the story about the homeless vet struck a nerve.

I love it when Toby explains to Jed what he was doing, and Jed asks "you don't think every homeless veteran would come out of the woodwork?" I get choked up when Toby answers "I can only hope, sir."  And then when he walks out of the Oval Office, and Mrs. Landingham asks to come along, I'm gone.

My Dad passed away a month ago, and he was a WWII vet, serving in the Army Air Forces.  He was buried in a National Cemetery, and watching the two soldiers fold the US flag and give it to Mom, I was reminded of the scene at Arlington.  It was already a moving scene, and I know it's going to be tough to watch next time.

I'm so sorry. I lost my mum last July. We were supposed to binge-watch The West Wing, together, and never got around to it. I'm finally watching it by myself.

One of my uncles died last October. He was a marine (I think - some sort of special forces), survived a war (and two helicopter crashes), and was a trucker, basically living in a truck stop. I didn't know him well. He was buried in a veteran's cemetery, and they did the gun salute. I was moved when they folded the flag, and handed it to my oldest uncle. I watched that episode on Friday, and got goosebumps, and a bit teary. 

Edited February 6, 2017 by Anela

[Kohola3]

Vietnam era woman and I went to WAY too many military funerals in my time.  To this day, I burst into tears just hearing Taps.  In Excelsis Deo reduces me to a puddle each time I watch it (I start bawling when Mrs. L tells her story and right to the end) but it's so beautiful that I have to see it every now and then.

[UYI]

I FINALLY finished watching the first season for the first time on Netflix. I'm a political junkie, and a bunch of my other political junkie friends who have been fans for years, I think, were about to declare me a pariah for not watching it, so I've been binge watching all this month. (And I was only 10 when it premiered in 1999, so I would've been a bit too young during the original run.)

Leo's my favorite, I adore him. CJ's my other favorite.

I want CJ & Danny together a lot. I loved when he got her a goldfish, and it had its own podium!

I'll be the person who admits to liking Mandy. *runs*

That said, I can see why she got written off, and that if they were going to do so anyway, they should've just had her fired when that memo from the Russell campaign got leaked. 

I feel like I should put space in between watching season 2, so as not to finish the show too soon, but that may not be possible. 

[Moose135]

31 minutes ago, UYI said:

I FINALLY finished watching the first season for the first time on Netflix.

Welcome! I tell you what, let's forget the fact that you're coming a little late to the party and embrace the fact that you showed up at all. ;-)

31 minutes ago, UYI said:

I'll be the person who admits to liking Mandy. *runs*

I never thought she was all that bad either.

[Kohola3]

8 hours ago, UYI said:

I feel like I should put space in between watching season 2, so as not to finish the show too soon, but that may not be possible. 

It will be like a downhill ski run - once you get started it's hard to stop!  And, as an oldster, I watched the original run and this many years later can pretty much recite the dialog from the first 4 seasons.  Still love to watch my favorites over and over.

[UYI]

On 3/23/2017 at 8:40 AM, Kohola3 said:

It will be like a downhill ski run - once you get started it's hard to stop!  And, as an oldster, I watched the original run and this many years later can pretty much recite the dialog from the first 4 seasons.  Still love to watch my favorites over and over.

I decided after saying that the other day to just go ahead and dive into season 2--I really had no other choice. ;) 

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, UYI said:

I decided after saying that the other day to just go ahead and dive into season 2--I really had no other choice. ;) 

Good, I was starting to doubt your humanity.

When I first watched Season 1s finale, pretty sure I stayed up to 2 am to keep watching. :)

[Moose135]

2 hours ago, deaja said:

When I first watched Season 1s finale, pretty sure I stayed up to 2 am to keep watching. :)

Kids these days with their new fangled DVDs and streaming video...after I watched the Season 1 finale, I had to wait four months to find out who'd been hit!

[Kohola3]

8 hours ago, Moose135 said:

I had to wait four months to find out who'd been hit!

Lord, wasn't that agonizing? I remember gasping aloud at the end (we weren't spoiled with hints back then) when the shooting started.  I sat in disbelief at the end and started counting the days until the fall debut.  

[Melancholy]

I wasn't allowed to stay up late enough on a school night to watch S1 when it aired but even then, I remember my parents discussing the suspense over the summer. I was finally deemed old enough to watch the show as it aired by S3 so I know who survived by the time that I caught on the EPs that I missed when they first aired on Bravo. 

[twinkietwin94]

Oo oo oo a newbie! Oh please fill us all in on your thoughts as you watch it's so fun to live vicariously through someone watching with fresh eyes.

[ProudMary]

In light of tonight's real world events, I surely can't be the only person whose mind went directly to "A Proportional Response," right?
Quote from the Pentagon's official statement:
"The strike was a proportional response to Assad's heinous act."

[Bastet]

12 hours ago, ProudMary said:

In light of tonight's real world events, I surely can't be the only person whose mind went directly to "A Proportional Response," right?

Heh; Brian Williams spoke of a "proportional response," explicitly referencing Sorkin, on MSNBC last night before the Pentagon statement was even released.

[Zola]

When it first aired in the UK (2001, I think), i was about 8, and still living in South Africa, my home country. A couple of years later we emigrated to the UK but I still far too young to care much about the show - way past my bedtime in any case!

 

I finally got round to watching the show during my undergrad years, and was blown away with S1! (and that includes Mandy!) But subsequent repeat-viewings in the ensuing years, and  I find S1 rather lightweight compared to latter seasons. It is still great of course, but the initial episodes are now a chore and I just zap past them until "In Excelsis Deo", and for me that's when the show finds its straps. 

[Kohola3]

While I loved Season 1 (and can probably recite most of the dialog) I agree that it now looks like there was some "feeling their way" at first.   Of course, there was an abrupt change in direction once it was determined that POTUS would not just be a peripheral player due to the stage presence of Martin Sheen.  I really doubt it would have gone 7 seasons with Sam as the central character.

[Zola]

13 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

While I loved Season 1 (and can probably recite most of the dialog) I agree that it now looks like there was some "feeling their way" at first.   Of course, there was an abrupt change in direction once it was determined that POTUS would not just be a peripheral player due to the stage presence of Martin Sheen.  I really doubt it would have gone 7 seasons with Sam as the central character.

Had it not been for such a wonderful ensemble cast, I would have not lasted much past a season or two had the show revolved around Rob Lowe's Sam character - it would have probably been nothing more than a relatively lightweight soap opera with some random politics thrown in to give it some gravitas. The pilot episode was a case in point - the opening 10-15 minutes and the show appeared to tick my "Oh no!" boxes - handsome Sam eyes up random woman at a bar; few minutes later, Sam is getting out of her bed dressed only in his boxers and showing off his manly chest; and then a little later in the show he is getting just a little flirtatious with Mallory-  and again, I thought is this all this show is going to be about!?

Admittedly there was a decent storyline bubbling along with the Laurie/Sam thing, but other than for Toby's wonderful one-liner to Sam's "I accidentally slept with a prostitute!", "Did you trip over something?", I just couldn't care less about Sam's character, and hoped the show would veer away from such silliness -  and fortunately, thanks largely to the charismatic charm of Martin Sheen, it did!

Edited June 25, 2017 by Only Zola

[Zola]

Given the appalling gun massacre at Mandalay Bay, Las Vegas, I will never be able to view the final episode - "What Kind of Day Has it Been?" (specifically the last 5 minutes or so), in quite the same way anymore :(

[rab01]

I've started rewatching TWW with my sons (who are early teens) as an antidote to the current news cycle and they both love it.  The only thing that takes them out of the episodes is the sexism of it. They can understand that Josh is written as sexist and shown to be stupid about it but can't accept when the show allows groups of the characters to act that way and not get called on it.  My younger son also couldn't stand the Sam/Laurie plotline and I almost lost him for the entire series because of the sheer awkwardness and stupidity of it.  We are midway through Season Two at this point.  

Also, the show engenders some dark humor from them -- jokes about how real life presidents can't possibly be expected to have an opinion on policy details and how this is a Fantasy show, like Star Trek -- stuff like that.