S01.E02: The Outspoken King

[Syndicate]

I think the idea of Cookie and Lucious loving Andre is nice.  Too bad it seems that there's no reciprocation of love to them or his brothers.  He speaks about all of them as though they're nothing but pawns.  Furthermore, Rhonda loves Andre?  How can this be when she's pushing him to steamroll over his entire family for the sake of money?  Again, exposition is necessary to learn about these characters, especially deceitful and ungrateful Andre.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Syndicate

[copacabana]

It was funny to see Luscious try to hoodwink both Andre and Hakeem by saying that if they managed to pull of these last two requests of his -- one to get the IPO back on track and the other to wow the crowd with his rapping -- the company would be his!  Tricky, tricky Luscious.  It seems that, despicable Daddy or not, the only one who's getting any kind of more honest dialogue with him is in fact Jamal.

 

Cookie seems to have accepted Jamal without qualms since he was a little boy.  Thank goodness for that.  Seventeen years in prison, abandoned by her husband after some time, might very well have led her to her own Dora.  At the least, it may have reinforced her understanding for same-sex relationships -- if not as an active participant, then as an observer. I'll bet that Taraji is thanking her lucky stars for the opportunity to play such a fascinating character. 

Edited January 20, 2015 by copacabana

[ribboninthesky1]

I like this entire post, but given the nature of this show as shown in 2 episodes, I'm wondering if any of the analysis here will actually come to pass.  I do feel that Cookie showed a sense of guilt about Andre in the pilot episode, but reasonably assuming that Lucious steered Andre in a more prestigious direction by paying for him to have a Harvard education and everything that goes along with that, at what point did Andre become decidedly devious and ungrateful to the point where he's willing to stand back and watch his parents and brothers destroy one another so that he can steal the throne?

 

I think he feels entitled to lead the company, probably due to a mix of birth order and learning the business.  When that expectation was not met because his father threw a curveball, that seemed to set him off.  He doesn't seem all that close to any immediate family, so it's not a stretch for me to believe that he's okay with instigating brotherly war to get what he feels he deserves.

 

As already mentioned, the only one who isn't trying to outwit, outmatch, outplay someone else (YET) is Jamal.  

 

When Cookie took the fall it wasn't to protect just him but all of them (the kids included).

 

And yet, she was completely shut out, and is having to demand and fight for the most basic of respect and compensation.  Lucious apparently didn't get the memo that she (as his wife and partner willing to take a proverbial bullet for him) was meant to reap some benefit as well.  If Cookie hadn't blackmailed Lucious, she'd likely be homeless or probably living with Jamal, still waiting on money.    

 

This is why I'm not boarding the Cookie/Lucious reconciliation train, even for hatesex or to put Anika in her place.  It's also why I was not at all impressed with Lucious firing that rapper AFTER Cookie called him out.  To me, genuine respect would have been to:

 

1. check the rapper when he first popped off
2. not humiliate her in front of several people by agreeing with said rapper's disrespect 
3. from the beginning, ensure Cookie would be taken care of in any way she could imagine upon her release, so she wouldn't have to demand scraps

 

Other than revel in her beauty and candor, Lucious barely acknowledges her sacrifice for all of them.  To me, he tolerates Cookie's interruptions not because of respect, but because he knows she could burn it all to the ground if she spills the secrets (after all, that's why he murdered Bunkie).  If it were me, and my spouse went to PRISON for me, and I financially benefited from it the way Lucious has, the red carpet would have been rolled out as soon as that person hit that prison exit gate.  Lucious is a self-involved asshole, and I sincerely hope his empire crumbles, and he actually ends up serving the prison time he bypassed because his wife was a ride or die chick.   

[leisawoo]

I don't think he will because of the ALS, which my sister has. I dread when they portray his physical decline as it has been so painful watching my sister's. I hope I will be able to continue to watch cuz I love the show but I don't know. Almost ran outta the room, when I heard his diagnosis

[ribboninthesky1]

Ah, I forgot about his ALS diagnosis! Thanks for the reminder (and I'm sorry to read about your sister, leisawoo).

[anonymiss]

I had to laugh at the "brilliant white wife" putting a baby's bib on to give her man a bj. Amusing detail to add to how much a control freak she is.

[leisawoo]

Thank you ribboninthesky1.

[Timetoread]

I think Luscious is looking for the son who best combines the strengths of his parents.  Andre knows business, but Luscious feels that you can't know THIS business without having the creative talent.  I imagine that he doesn't want to leave the restaurant to the one son who can't cook, no matter what degree Andre has.

 

I agree completely.

 

3.from the beginning, ensure Cookie would be taken care of in any way she could imagine upon her release, so she wouldn't have to demand scraps

 

He DID intend to take care of her. He got her a nice home (not his mansion, but still nice as noted by Andre), a new wardrobe and stylist, courtesy of Jamal by route of Lucius's credit, promised her a $3 million yearly salary, and I don't think he had any issue with giving her a job and basically supporting her from here on out.  The problem is that what she asked for was:  ownership of HALF the company and the job position already filled by somebody who is a) competent according to him and the board and b) his current girlfriend or ELSE she'll burn the whole thing down to the ground.  Cookie doesn't demand scraps, Cookie turns the whole board over.  I will say that she does so with much flair.

 

This leads me to a sentiment that I am sure will be much maligned but...I could see Lucius' point with his "blackmail" of Jamal.  The stunt Cookie and (as far as Lucius knows) Jamal were planning was for him to "come out" on the same day and location as Hakeem's introduction - to undermine and punish Lucius.  Not arguing the merits of homophobia, but Lucius sincerely believes that signing a gay artist with his hip-hop company would lose him talent, sponsorship and money.  He asked Jamal not to do this, to which Jamal answered, "The world does not revolve around you."  That is when Lucius, rightfully in my opinion, pointed out that he was the Daddy Warbucks behind Jamal, and he that giveth can taketh away.  Now I know people find that mean and that it is all about Jamal's sexuality but I don't see it that way.  When I was a very young adult I was told by my mother, "You have to pay the cost to be the boss."  You do not get to be supported into perpetuity by your parents while simultaneously using the mantle of adulthood to go against them.  Jamal can be his own man on his own dime, but as long as he continues to be one of Lucius' dependents, Lucius's rules go.

[JBC344]

I agree completely.

 

 

He DID intend to take care of her. He got her a nice home (not his mansion, but still nice as noted by Andre), a new wardrobe and stylist, courtesy of Jamal by route of Lucius's credit, promised her a $3 million yearly salary, and I don't think he had any issue with giving her a job and basically supporting her from here on out.  The problem is that what she asked for was:  ownership of HALF the company and the job position already filled by somebody who is a) competent according to him and the board and b) his current girlfriend or ELSE she'll burn the whole thing down to the ground.  Cookie doesn't demand scraps, Cookie turns the whole board over.  I will say that she does so with much flair.

 

This leads me to a sentiment that I am sure will be much maligned but...I could see Lucius' point with his "blackmail" of Jamal.  The stunt Cookie and (as far as Lucius knows) Jamal were planning was for him to "come out" on the same day and location as Hakeem's introduction - to undermine and punish Lucius.  Not arguing the merits of homophobia, but Lucius sincerely believes that signing a gay artist with his hip-hop company would lose him talent, sponsorship and money.  He asked Jamal not to do this, to which Jamal answered, "The world does not revolve around you."  That is when Lucius, rightfully in my opinion, pointed out that he was the Daddy Warbucks behind Jamal, and he that giveth can taketh away.  Now I know people find that mean and that it is all about Jamal's sexuality but I don't see it that way.  When I was a very young adult I was told by my mother, "You have to pay the cost to be the boss."  You do not get to be supported into perpetuity by your parents while simultaneously using the mantle of adulthood to go against them.  Jamal can be his own man on his own dime, but as long as he continues to be one of Lucius' dependents, Lucius's rules go.

I think the point was that Lucius's support of Cookie should have already been in play. His support of her was a reaction to her storming in and asking for half the company.  Now not saying that Luscious wouldn't of given her anything but he certainly was waiting for her to come to him. He didn't extend himself to make sure that she knew that he would take care of her.  Like I mentioned in an earlier post Cookie should of already had an account with money put away for her since day one of Luscious making it big.  When Bunky told Lucius Cookie was getting out his reaction was annoyance.  He could of easily sent Bunky to find her to let her know he is taking care of things for her.  Hell, he could of called Jamal knowing that is the first place that Cookie would go and have Jamal relay the message that he is "taking care" of things.  I guess my point is that Cookie shouldn't of even had the opportunity to open her mouth before Lucious made his intentions known.

 

I don't necessarily blame Cookie for her busting in on him.  He basically broke off ties with her so I can see how she thought she was going to have to fight for anything.

 

When it comes to Jamal I completely agree with you.  Lucious's homophobia not withstanding I don't think he has an obligation to support Jamal.  It is incredibly cruel and complete blackmail but as long as Jamal is being supported by Lusious he is never really going to be his own man.  Maybe Cookie will pick up the tab when she finds out.

[Timetoread]

I hear you.  I guess I just gave him a pass because he didn't know she was getting out.  She didn't even call Jamal.  While I agree that we, the decent people, would have been watching this situation with empathy and preparation, in truth Lucius had gotten used to life without her.  Divorcing her meant that she was no longer his to take care of.  He moved on.  But of course my girl Cookie is not a woman who will be ignored.  LOL.  He obviously fell and bumped his head and forgot who he was dealing with.

 

As for this:

Maybe Cookie will pick up the tab when she finds out.

  My hope is that Jamal takes the resources that are inside of him - in addition to money his parents blessed him with talent, strength, and even good looks - and picks up his own tab.  The empire at play is his father's.  He can and should build his own.

[Syndicate]

I had to laugh at the "brilliant white wife" putting a baby's bib on to give her man a bj. Amusing detail to add to how much a control freak she is.

She's definitely a control freak with a puppet for a hubby.  The plan to wrestle the company away from the others seems like more of her idea than his.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Syndicate

[ribboninthesky1]

This leads me to a sentiment that I am sure will be much maligned but...I could see Lucius' point with his "blackmail" of Jamal.  The stunt Cookie and (as far as Lucius knows) Jamal were planning was for him to "come out" on the same day and location as Hakeem's introduction - to undermine and punish Lucius.  Not arguing the merits of homophobia, but Lucius sincerely believes that signing a gay artist with his hip-hop company would lose him talent, sponsorship and money.  He asked Jamal not to do this, to which Jamal answered, "The world does not revolve around you."  That is when Lucius, rightfully in my opinion, pointed out that he was the Daddy Warbucks behind Jamal, and he that giveth can taketh away.  Now I know people find that mean and that it is all about Jamal's sexuality but I don't see it that way.  When I was a very young adult I was told by my mother, "You have to pay the cost to be the boss."  You do not get to be supported into perpetuity by your parents while simultaneously using the mantle of adulthood to go against them.  Jamal can be his own man on his own dime, but as long as he continues to be one of Lucius' dependents, Lucius's rules go.

 

True, and I think that was Cookie's point to him as well, even though she didn't know about the blackmail.  And had Jamal told her what happened, I think she would have, in her own Cookie way, advised him to cut financial ties for his own freedom.  That said, he wasn't threatening to cut Hakeem off after acting a plum fool and insulting the President, so I'm not sure Lucious is all THAT concerned about his firm's PR image.  Not to mention that he wasn't concerned about that other rapper until the story dictated he fire him.  To me, his threat to Jamal was quite personal, and it's clearly because of his homophobia.   

 

So, I'm much more sympathetic to Jamal because I can only imagine what kind of emotional abuse and neglect he's had to endure, and what that does to the psyche.  He may be passive, but I don't think he's a coward - if I'd been accustomed to a certain lifestyle, I would pause before risking it, especially without some kind of safety net.  After all, I see no reason for him to unnecessarily forego a financial birthright just because Pops is a bigot.  Especially when his siblings are much more volatile or self-destructive.  It's not like Jamal is financially reckless - it occurred to me that one reason Lucious is paying for Jamal's loft is the possibility that he wouldn't want Jamal and his boyfriends/lovers in HIS oh so sacred abode.    

Of course, all the more reason Jamal should have told Cookie, because you know she would have supported him financially until he could get on his feet.  Hopefully, he'll strike out on his own in the future - I think having Cookie's emotional support is helping him to see that he doesn't have to live in the shadow of Empire, his father, or his brothers.  Lucious strikes me as petty enough to cut him off and leave him with nothing if he doesn't continue to toe the party line.  So I hope he can get any financial affairs in order before going rogue, assuming the show will even address this aspect of it. 

Edited January 21, 2015 by ribboninthesky1

[SimoneS]

I think Cookie has made peace with the damage that she has done to her children and fully understands that she may never have a traditional relationship with them.  I also think that she is incredibly frustrated because she feels like her "sacrifice" has not been respected.  In order for her to get 30 years she obviously didn't disclose Luscious's involvement with her drug dealing as well as disclose that she currently was hiding 400,000 dollars of drug money.  Both of which would of gotten her a lighter sentence.

 

There is no way that Cookie would have gotten a lighter sentence under the mandatory drug sentencing laws in the 90s. Disclosing Lucious' involvement in the drug dealers and murders would have gotten him a life sentence and likely put him on death row, while she got the same sentence. Now the show might play it different, but that was not how it worked back then.

Edited January 21, 2015 by SimoneS

[TobinAlbers]

Rewatching this episode and that elevator scene (SO good), I realized that Andre didn't get involved in defending Cookie not because he didn't care but the dude was trying to keep in control since Lucious just asked him point blank what was wrong with him.

 

So now he's in the elevator, packed with a bunch of firecrackers and he's willing himself to just hold tight, sit still, do nothing, just get out of there. He may not have been even registering what was being said in the elevator and off in his own head or if he was, felt he couldn't say or do anything for fear of him not being able to control himself and exposing himself. Cookie does glance at him and Andre does seem to be ignoring her but it may have been less about his not caring and more about he was shutting out everything in that elevator to keep control.

 

And then when Cookie launches herself at Anika, you'll notice Vernon steps up to hold Cookie back but Andre slinks around him and cowers in the corner of the elevator like a scared kid. He's literally got his back to them trying to shut them out and maintain control because he was barely holding on. It was really sad. I really do hope we see the family pique to his issues and try to help him and give him support.

 

As for the rest, I'm actually intrigued about Anika and Lucious. Why does she want him? Why does he want her? Or at least why are they together? Do they like each other or is he some older man who wanted a stable pretty younger companion?  Why is she accepting that she's a temp rather than trying to make Lucious hers? Why is she so passionless? She almost seems a better fit for Andre than Lucious.

[Rae Spellman]

 

As for the rest, I'm actually intrigued about Anika and Lucious. Why does she want him? Why does he want her? Or at least why are they together? Do they like each other or is he some older man who wanted a stable pretty younger companion?  Why is she accepting that she's a temp rather than trying to make Lucious hers? Why is she so passionless? She almost seems a better fit for Andre than Lucious.

 

Maybe Anika knows it's a losing battle. In the pilot Cookie mentioned the possibility of Luscious having other young women besides Anika.

 

 

She almost seems a better fit for Andre than Lucious.

 

Or maybe Anika doesn't want Luscious long term. If Anika really thinks Cookie is old, then Luscious is old, too. This being a soap, maybe Anika will have an fling with Andre!

 

[Tiger]

I just watched this episode with someone to get them caught up, and it was heavily edited from what aired live last week.  

 

For starters, any scene with Michael or Rhonda was completely cut, and the scene with Hakeem in that restaurant was also chopped.  They also cut the elevator scene.

[anonymiss]

Maybe Anika knows it's a losing battle. In the pilot Cookie mentioned the possibility of Luscious having other young women besides Anika.

 

 

Or maybe Anika doesn't want Luscious long term. If Anika really thinks Cookie is old, then Luscious is old, too. 

Not necessarily because there's a different standard for women. Anika could, out of stupidity, be brainwashed into the misogynist view that women over 40 don't exist and men just age like fine wine, etc.

[Dani331]

Sooooo, no one is going to mention that Porsche looks like Fantasia. Alright, it's just me.

Definitely not just you. I'm just watching this episode and I immediately said that to my husband. LOL

[announcergirl]

I just watched this episode with someone to get them caught up, and it was heavily edited from what aired live last week.  

 

For starters, any scene with Michael or Rhonda was completely cut, and the scene with Hakeem was also chopped.  They also cut the elevator scene.

How the hell?! Those scenes majorly drove the plots and added the drama.

[Congo]

How the hell?! Those scenes majorly drove the plots and added the drama.

The original episodes air with limited commercial interruption. I guess the repeats air with the standard amount of commercials, so some scenes have to be cut.

[Bandolero]

I may be in the minority but I think that Cookie is a bit over the top. I wish she would dial it back a bit. Being around somebody who is always "so extra" like that would be so tiring. 

[Irlandesa]

I don't get why Cookie hates Anika, is it because Anika hates her?  I mean she's divorced from Lucious, he treats her like crap; Cookie should be like, "you can have his sorry ass."

 

The only reason I can see Cookie hating Anika (and I hate it when women fight over a sorry ass man), is because Cookie feels that Lucious had replaced Cookie with Anika (then why hate Anika for that?)

In four episodes, I never got the vibe that Cookie dislikes Anika because Anika has Lucious and Cookie wants him back.  I think think that's how Anika looks at the three of them.  She feels secure in her position at the company but wants to make sure that Cookie wants to know that Lucious is her man now and not to go after him.  Cookie, on the other hand, doesn't look like she has any intention of going after Lucious.  But she absolutely does want Anika's position in the company.

The way she sees it, she deserves half the company.  It's her money that helped start it and it was her sacrifice that allowed Lucious to build the company over the past 17 years. She wants more than scraps even if they are nice scraps.

 

So even though there is a man in the equation, he sure as hell isn't the prize, at least not in Cookie's mind.  And who knows if Anika truly understood what Cookie was after that he'd be in Anika's mind either.

 

Or maybe Anika doesn't want Luscious long term. If Anika really thinks Cookie is old, then Luscious is old, too. This being a soap, maybe Anika will have an fling with Andre!

In the movie this show is loosely based on (which I aired yesterday on TCM), the Lucious character tried to marry his mistress off to the Jamal equivalent.  If Anika loses her connection to Lucious for some reason, I could see her setting her sights on Hakeem as he already has a thing for older women.

[darkestboy]

Yeah, I think I'm hooked here.

Hakeem is a spoiled stupid brat but his affection for Jamal almost makes up for it. This show should always have a Hakeem/Jamal duet. Loved, loved No Apologies as a track.

Lucious will go back and forth as a character for me. I hate his homophobia and the way he forced Jamal to stay in the closet but his scenes with Cookie are dynamite to watch.

Anika and Rhonda are okay characters, both having their moments but neither of them I really love. I hope Michael gets a bit more to do in later episode. I like Becky too.

The Obama stuff was hilarious. I cracked up with that phone conversation that Lucious had with the president offscreen of course.

Kid Fo Fo was annoying throughout the episode. Lucious's grief for Bunky's death was something else altogether.

Like that the show is handling both Lucious's ASL and Andre's bipolar pretty well so far.

Not sure of Hakeem and Tiana just yet.

The stuff with Cookie and the agent at the end was interesting too, 8/10