Mr. Carter: The Secret Future Husband

[Danny Franks]

It happens as Peggy is walking up outside. My assumption is that this is a signal between them.

 

Right. Well I'll just say that I'm pretty sure you're wrong.

 

And I'd guess that if we did meet Anna, she'd be written off now as an actress hired by Jarvis to perpetuate this bizarre pantomime.

[blackwing]

I  don't see people talking as intensely about a male lead finding Mrs. Right to make his life finally all satisfactory. Maybe there somehow is seldom a doubt he will, he is the hero after all, so it can happen by the way. In fairy tales the princess is often enough the reward for the hero to win when successful in his adventures.  Meanwhile for a female lead it somehow seems that her live only will be fulfilled when she finally will find Mr. Right, or often it's more be found by Mr. Right (it would be a tiny progress if at least we would consider Mrs. Right as well - I am aware, a possibility already excluded in this case). Men are defined by their own doings, their action, the success at work or in saving the world, while women still tend to be defined mostly by relationships and their success in relationship, not at work but in what we call private life, mostly family.

In the context of this show, I disagree.  At least where I am concerned, I'm not talking about Peggy's husband as a way to define here and say her only purpose is to find a husband.  I'm curious about him because Peggy is a character familiar to us from the first Captain America movie.  In the second movie, she is an old woman and we learn she married and had two children.  In the comics, she is linked to Gabe Jones.  In "Agents of SHIELD", we are told Agent Triplett is the grandson of a Howling Commando.  I think it's very natural to be curious about who Peggy ends up marrying, and it's not at all necessarily meant to be an anti-feminist "let's put the little lady in her box" attitude that most of her male colleagues espouse.  It's just curiosity.

[ostentatious]

No. I think she's an invalid. That's what I think the big reveal is. She exists, or else the guys at SSR wouldn't reference her.

 

And yeah, "Who is Peggy going to marry?" is a mystery. If Peggy was Paul and we knew he would be marrying some unidentified woman within a few years, we'd be wondering that too.

[Lokiberry]

Why must there be a convoluted reason for Anna to not be real? If the writers wanted to put Peggy and Jarvis together, wouldn't it be easier to just kill her off? Or have her turn out to be a Hydra agent?

[ostentatious]

There doesn't. I don't think she's not real. I just think there has to be some reason to make a game out of her. Ill health seems the most likely, and the simplest.

[BooBear]

But that Anna situation...nah, something's up. I'll buy it when they physically produce an Anna who is married, married *to Jarvis*, and in control of all her faculties and not in an institution somewhere, which still doesn't feel right. Until then there is some reason they're treating her like Wolowitz's mother, and IMO the reason is that in reality she isn't the ship blocker we assume.

 

This is my problem with it too. If the powers that be thought it would be cute and funny to do a wallowitz they better go ahead and cast someone soon because to me, already, it is a distraction. I can't quite put Jarvis out of my mind for Peggy with that gaping hole in the story. We are only 3 episodes in but I can't help but think that they would have just cast Jarvis' wife if there wasn't something more to it. 

 

Perhaps they didn't realize the scorching chemistry that HA would have with JD'Arcy.

[ostentatious]

This is my problem with it too. If the powers that be thought it would be cute and funny to do a wallowitz they better go ahead and cast someone soon because to me, already, it is a distraction. I can't quite put Jarvis out of my mind for Peggy with that gaping hole in the story. We are only 3 episodes in but I can't help but think that they would have just cast Jarvis' wife if there wasn't something more to it. 

 

Perhaps they didn't realize the scorching chemistry that HA would have with JD'Arcy.

 

But they've gone this direction out of the gate. This chemistry/relationship isn't something they discovered as they went along. It's built in from the start. And one of the showrunners said something like, we really hoped that they'd have chemistry, and we were so thrilled with what we got.

 

Yeah, they need to produce an Anna right quicklike. I need to see this woman so I can care about her happiness. My loyalties are going to be on lockdown if I have to go another two eps of this. And no more leg touching and gulping, Jarvis. Let's back away. There better not be any "mission where they have to dance together" either. Stop it, show, stop it.

 

I do think that if it isn't Jarvis, it's Thompson, if it's one of these guys. Sousa is a double agent, IMO. The parallel of "Peggy, underestimated because she's female" and "Sousa, underestimated because he's disabled" is pretty good. And I think that's where they'd use Enver.

Edited January 19, 2015 by ostentatious

[Minneapple]

There is no reason to hide Anna if she is simply some nice lady happily married to Jarvis. This is not a sitcom.

The OC hid Summer's stepmom (did they eventually show her?), so that kind of trick isn't necessarily only done on sitcoms.

[Danny Franks]

The OC hid Summer's stepmom (did they eventually show her?), so that kind of trick isn't necessarily only done on sitcoms.

 

It seems to me that it's just something you do when you don't need to cast someone. Like any family member or friend on any show. 'Do we need to cast him/her?' The answer is not really. There's no reason to hide her? There's no reason to show her.

 

Trying to twist the narrative into knots to come to a conclusion that suits is all well and good, but I don't think it makes it any more likely.

[Sakura12]

I just think that they didn't want to cast Jarvis' wife because she's not that important a character for the 8 episodes. So they figured a voice that Jarvis talks to would be enough. But that also makes me think these writers are new to the power of shipping. There was nothing indicating Anna is invalid. She was out while Jarvis was making a souffle for his wife before she came home. For me as a non-shipper I'd take that as she was at work or out shopping. 

 

As of now, I'm taking it as Jarvis wife Anna is real, able bodied and he's in love with her. His "moment" with Peggy was just that. She's, Peggy and she's an extraordinary woman and he recognizes that. Just like people recognized that in Steve. For me that doesn't mean he wants to leave his wife for her. We also have that Peggy's husband was a solider rescued by Steve Rogers. Jarvis was rescued by Howard Stark which is why he's connected to the Starks not the Carter's. 

 

My biggest issue with this discussion is why can't people just be friends? I see the chemistry, however I think it's necessary for good friends to have chemistry as well. That's why I'm enjoying Peggy's growing friendships with Jarvis and Angie. 

[Danny Franks]

 There was nothing indicating Anna is invalid. She was out while Jarvis was making a souffle for his wife before she came home. For me as a non-shipper I'd take that as she was at work or out shopping. 

 

He also took her up on her offer to do the dishes. What sort of cad does that with an invalid wife?

 

My biggest issue with this discussion is why can't people just be friends? I see the chemistry, however I think it's necessary for good friends to have chemistry as well. That's why I'm enjoying Peggy's growing friendships with Jarvis and Angie.

 

 

Amen! I don't see much sexual at all in their chemistry, and Jarvis being uncomfortable touching her leg proved exactly two things. One, he's human and two, he's a well brought-up man from the early decades of the 20th century.

 

Other than that, as I said in the episode thread, he gives off 'younger brother thinks big sis is awesome' vibes, and she just seems almost indulgently affectionate in return. It's all part of establishing Peggy as the hero and Jarvis as the sidekick. And despite what many people would wish, heroes and sidekicks don't usually get romantically involved (though you wouldn't know it, to read almost any Batman or Captain America fanfiction).

[ostentatious]

One of the two showrunners is married to the Arrow showrunner. I don't think she's new to shipping.

 

If they want me to see a friendship informed by attraction, I am down with that. But I won't be remotely interested in any other romantic relationship for her, is the problem. Not for this season, but if there are future seasons, it will be a problem.

 

I think someone's wife with whom he has a super dramatic romantic backstory is different from someone's joke stepmonster, or morbidly obese mom, or nagging wife, or gruff, wise next door neighbor. To me, that is not someone you hide, because it's not a silly relationship. It's a swooningly romantic relationship. Not one, IMO, that should do the wacky unseen character thing, which is comedy.

 

What I'm saying is that Hidden Anna doesn't *work* for me here, because it makes me not take the relationship seriously. It cues me that this is a throwaway joke character, but their backstory says she's not at all. So unless they've planned some sort of reveal, I find it really distracting.

Edited January 19, 2015 by ostentatious

[BooBear]

My biggest issue with this discussion is why can't people just be friends? I see the chemistry, however I think it's necessary for good friends to have chemistry as well. That's why I'm enjoying Peggy's growing friendships with Jarvis and Angie. 

 

I am fine with it if they are just friends. But... I think the issue has come up because the writers have left Anna vague. They need to wrap up that loose end to make me believe that they intend them to be friends only.   I agree so far I don't see either Peggy or Jarvis are interested in the other romantically. But they do like and care about each other already.

[Sakura12]

I think the fact that they have Jarvis happily married (where he committed treason for his wife) is that wrapped up in neat little bow. Jarvis is married and Peggy is mourning her lost love who also happens to be a man that would be hard to replace. I don't need anything more to tell me these two are not meant to be romantically involved, but I guess that is just me. 

[ostentatious]

And the leg touch does matter.

 

This isn't IRL, things don't just happen without indicating anything. The leg touch got treated like a moment. Not for her at all, she wasn't even noticing him. But he gulped. It was lingered over. They made it a Thing.

 

I feel like *these* are the things they're asking me to notice. Why? This is framed like they're the couple to watch, but they can't be.

 

And by keeping Anna hidden, they're actually leaving themselves room to work. If she hits the stage, that's it.

 

I've just figured it out. It just hit me.

 

I *hate* the leg touch if everything is great with Anna. He was being perfectly clinical about it. But then they put that in there. That is when I needed there to be some wiggle room, because I don't like that happening otherwise.

Edited January 19, 2015 by ostentatious

[Danny Franks]

I think the fact that they have Jarvis happily married (where he committed treason for his wife) is that wrapped up in neat little bow. Jarvis is married and Peggy is mourning her lost love who also happens to be a man that would be hard to replace. I don't need anything more to tell me these two are not meant to be romantically involved, but I guess that is just me. 

 

It's not just you.

 

I imagine the leg touch moment happened because they wrote a scene where Jarvis was suturing her leg and they realised it was an unusually intimate moment, so threw that in there. Same with Peggy imperiously telling him "as you were" as he knelt at her feet. The writers having a bit of fun while framing a scene where Peggy learns an Important Lesson about friendship.

[Sakura12]

I thought it was just a human moment and Jarvis recognizing that Peggy is an amazing woman and he's never met anyone quite like her. He was amazed by her, his hand just went there and being a respectful man from the 1920's thought it was inappropriate. I'm hoping it was just because I like human character moments like that. I like my characters to act like real people and not over the top made for tv moments. 

 

I don't ship many characters on shows I watch so that could also be why I don't see every little moment as meant to be a shipper moment. 

[FurryFury]

My biggest issue with this discussion is why can't people just be friends? I see the chemistry, however I think it's necessary for good friends to have chemistry as well. That's why I'm enjoying Peggy's growing friendships with Jarvis and Angie.

 

This. I'm just tired of shippers turning all friendships or other intense platonic relationships into romances and then constantly pestering the writers on social networks, sometimes compelling them into making them canon. I really, really like that these writers have realized in advance that people would latch onto Jarvis/Peggy simply because he's her partner and the most important relationship (thus far) and made him married and obviously in love with his wife. I don't the see the show lasting enough time for him to lose the wife, grieve and move on with Peggy, so I'm sure their relationship would remain platonic. As for the chemistry, I don't read it as sexual at all, but YMMV (I really think her best chemistry is with Howard, both here and in the movie, they just spark together). As for Angie, I just don't have enough interesting female/female friendships on TV. It just seems that these days, all of f/f platonic relationships in action-y shows become romances, even if one or both participants were set up as straight.

 

Somebody in the thread has called Sousa weak, and I definitely agree. Maybe it's just me, but I simply don't enjoy this type of romance. I want both partners to have equally strong will and a more dramatic and intense dynamic. Although if he'll turn out to be a mole, I'd probably start shipping them right now, because that's how I roll (yeah, I know, Peggy would never go for a bad guy, but hey).

[Lokiberry]

I can't see Anna as being a ruse. I've seen too much evidence that she's real. I can see her being hidden from the audience because we'd recognize her. For instance if the finale reveals that Anna is Dottie, and she's a Hydra agent who's been playing Jarvis and Howard from the start, I'd buy that.

[Shanna]

My biggest issue with this discussion is why can't people just be friends? I see the chemistry, however I think it's necessary for good friends to have chemistry as well. That's why I'm enjoying Peggy's growing friendships with Jarvis and Angie.

This is where I'm at as well. I like Jarvis and I am enjoying him with Peggy but he is happily married. I see no reason to ship that and I don't give a damn about Anna unless she is important to the plot honestly.

I am also enjoying angies friendship with Peggy and see no reason to ship it. I like that this show has developed several rich friendships with Peggy, as well as some work adversaries. I am content at present. Who she ends up with is just curiosity.

I will not accept Thompson though. We are not adding Peggy to the list of the chads wives, even in fiction! My money is on Sousa. I do think Thompson will turn out not a bad guy, maybe they'll even bond a bit in the future. But not romantically. Bleck!

[kennyab]

There is no reason to hide Anna if she is simply some nice lady happily married to Jarvis. This is not a sitcom.

 

Or they're using it as a storytelling device to demonstrate the characters' double lives. In Jarvis's case, we're seeing his "spy" life while receiving gentle reminders that it's only a part of his existence, and not even the largest part of it.

[Mockingbird]

Or they're using it as a storytelling device to demonstrate the characters' double lives. In Jarvis's case, we're seeing his "spy" life while receiving gentle reminders that it's only a part of his existence, and not even the largest part of it.

Oh, I really like this. I'm bothered by Anna always being offscreen, but now this is my explanation why. Peggy and Jarvis do have great chemistry, and he's been the only character on the show who truly respects and admires her in a non-patronizing way, so I get people shipping them because there's no other husband alternative. (If Anna wasn't in the picture, I'd be on board.) It absolutely seems fishy/cheesy to have Anna be a disembodied voice offscreen, but maybe we'll see her if Jarvis starts losing control of the separation of his home and work life.

[kattahj]

It just seems that these days, all of f/f platonic relationships in action-y shows become romances, even if one or both participants were set up as straight.

 

 

Wait, there are that many lesbian romances on TV? I am clearly watching the wrong shows! I will happily trade Peggy/Angie for some titles. (I've got Lost Girl and The Fosters already, but I'm assuming they're not what you're talking about.)

 

Seriously, though, when I ship, I mostly just do it for fun. I don't insist on any of it becoming canon. (Though, admittedly, I have occasionally given up a show when a ship goes south... but that tends to be because my favourite characters aren't in it as much, or at all.) As far as this show goes, as someone said, a coffee date in the final episode (with whichever character) is pretty much the limit to the amount of romance I'd want. Especially since Steve/Peggy didn't even get that and are still played up as a Big Romance in canon.

 

Somebody in the thread has called Sousa weak, and I definitely agree. Maybe it's just me, but I simply don't enjoy this type of romance.

 

 

I do wonder how much gender expectations matter here... not necessarily with you personally, just that I'm surprised that the lack of force in his nature is such an issue. I mean, yeah, he's basically Steve Rogers without the fire, but that's still 90% of a great guy. (Assuming it's not all a cover for evilness.)

 

I will not accept Thompson though. We are not adding Peggy to the list of the chads wives, even in fiction!

 

I think if they wanted Peggy with Thompson they wouldn't hire an actor who gets people backing away from the show just because he's in it...

This thread is starting to remind me of this Tiny Sepuku comic, which amuses me. :-)

[Danny Franks]

I do wonder how much gender expectations matter here... not necessarily with you personally, just that I'm surprised that the lack of force in his nature is such an issue. I mean, yeah, he's basically Steve Rogers without the fire, but that's still 90% of a great guy. (Assuming it's not all a cover for evilness.)

 

 

But the thing about Steve Rogers was that, despite his lack of strength and stature, he would stand up for what he believed in. His fire made him special as much as his decency did, because it let him impose that decency on those who would otherwise run roughshod over him. To compare Sousa to Steve, I think Sousa is a cautionary tale of what can happen to a decent man if he doesn't have the strength of will to be himself.

 

Is he nice? Sure, he seems to be. Does he want to do the right thing? As far as we know. Will he do those things regardless of the opinions of others, and stand up to those who he feels are in the wrong? Not really, so far. He white knighted briefly when Kyle Bornheimer made fun of Peggy, but that's all he's done other than offer snarky, passive aggressive asides.

 

Perhaps Sousa will figure it out and become better, but so far he just seems like the sort of Nice Guy who will try to win Peggy with those passive little comments, and then resent her when she dates someone else.

[kattahj]

 

but so far he just seems like the sort of Nice Guy who will try to win Peggy with those passive little comments, and then resent her when she dates someone else.

 

I think that's pretty baseless. He's made no pass on Peggy or requested anything of her, he hasn't been following her around or done anything around her except talk to her in a friendly manner and offer support - and when she asked him not to white knight her, he did it without any sign of resentment. The only evidence we have that he's even thinking about her in a romantic fashion is because he didn't deny it when Krzeminski suggested it. He's certainly never acted like she shouldn't be dating someone else.

 

Like, the rest of it I can at least somewhat see your point of view, but this is just so out of left field that... I mean, I feel about the same way about this as I do about the notion that Jarvis's wife is a robot.

 

Actually, truth be told, this notion is upsetting to me. That if a guy is nonconfrontational, that automatically means that he's going to be a skeeve in romantic situations. I know I kind of brought the "nice guy" concept into it with that comic, but... the ability to take romantic rejection with grace is in no way connected to the ability to impose your will on the world.

 

I may be overreacting because I'm personally a bit of a wuss, but yeah, I'm gonna need to back off and calm down.

[Danny Franks]

That's my read on the character, based on what has been presented. The apparent feeling that just being nice to her when everyone else isn't means she might be interested. His nonplussed reaction to Krzeminski's 'advice' suggests to me that this is the direction his mind was travelling in and he didn't appreciate being told otherwise. Because Krzeminski is right, I don't think Sousa measures up to Steve at all, but the crutch has nothing to do with it.

 

If he's non-confrontational enough to just make passive aggressive remarks and insult his fellow agents behind their backs, then he's not really a guy I'd want to be spending time with. This is the clash of personalities between him and Thompson where I feel they're both sorely lacking. Sousa mocks Thompson behind his back but seems like a decent guy, Thompson would say what he feels to your face, but he's an ass. Hence, I don't think either are anywhere near being fit potential partners for Peggy.

[FurryFury]

Wait, there are that many lesbian romances on TV? I am clearly watching the wrong shows! I will happily trade Peggy/Angie for some titles. (I've got Lost Girl and The Fosters already, but I'm assuming they're not what you're talking about.)

 

Legend of Korra (haven't finished it, but that's what I've heard) or Person of Interest. They are definitely not developed romances, though, just basically quick fanservice without much build-up, but are still examples.

 

I've stopped watching the Fosters because I hated Brandon, but Lena and Stef were just terrific. A great portrayal of a happy marriage, I think, same-sex or not. 

 

I do wonder how much gender expectations matter here... not necessarily with you personally, just that I'm surprised that the lack of force in his nature is such an issue. I mean, yeah, he's basically Steve Rogers without the fire, but that's still 90% of a great guy. (Assuming it's not all a cover for evilness.)

 

Definitely not with me, because I'm bored with nice girls as much as with nice guys when it comes to love interests. I'm a big fan of dynamic duos in which both partners can stand for themselves. Sousa may be a great guy, but I don't watch TV to see nice people, I watch to see interesting people, and so far, he's just flat.

[Danny Franks]

Legend of Korra (haven't finished it, but that's what I've heard) or Person of Interest. They are definitely not developed romances, though, just basically quick fanservice without much build-up, but are still examples.

 

I've stopped watching the Fosters because I hated Brandon, but Lena and Stef were just terrific. A great portrayal of a happy marriage, I think, same-sex or not. 

 

You could include Orphan Black, with Cosima and Delphine. Arrow had Sara and Nyssa, prior to the idiot writing decisions of season 3.

[FurryFury]

Those I've mentioned were just the most recent. Although personally, I've found Sara/Nyssa very problematic (trying to kill your ex gf's mother because she had left you is a big no-no in my book).

 

Anyway, so far, Peggy sure seems straight (not to mention ends up with a husband), so I doubt Angie would be anything more than a friend (or a fellow spy, or both).

[Shanna]

Because Krzeminski is right, I don't think Sousa measures up to Steve

I completely disagree that he was right. Steve was a great guy and we really know nothing about Sousa at this point to say he isn't, we know his instincts were to publicly stand up for Peggy. We know he is the only one at her work to treat her properly. I don't think Peggy has to date him because he is nice, but nice isn't a bad thing. I think Steve is damn nice in a similar quiet way to Sousa.

But k was way way out of line with his comment to Sousa, and IMO quite wrong about Peggy, because I don't think she is so shallow that she needs a superhero to be satisfied, which is what he was saying. And I can't see her putting down someone because they lost their leg while serving their country.

Now, I am open about who she dates but Dont like this knocking of Sousa for being a basically decent human being, in a quieter way. I do think we will see more from him and I hope they give him more meaty stuff having to do with the mystery. I think he's playing it quiet because he's adjusting to life with a disability and I don't really fault him for hat. That's real.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Shanna

[Sakura12]

Wait, there are that many lesbian romances on TV? I am clearly watching the wrong shows! I will happily trade Peggy/Angie for some titles. (I've got Lost Girl and The Fosters already, but I'm assuming they're not what you're talking about.)

 

Orphan Black is one and if you like Teen Mystery Shows that go absolutely nowhere, Pretty Little Liars. Emily has had more love interests then the straight characters. The girl she's with now is treated just like the other male love interests which is refreshing. There is a lot wrong with that show but the relationship between Emily and Paige they got right. Even though Emily's still hung up on a psychopath that is or is not torturing her and her friends. I can't quit that stupid show because I love the relationship between the girls. Which is again because good female friendships are hard to find on television. 

 

As for Sousa, I see traces of Steve Rogers in him. He's a good guy who because of his injury knows what it's like to have people look at you and think you are not capable of doing anything. As of right now he's just there, so I hope we do learn more about him. Whether he is just a good bland guy or he's a bad guy. 

Edited January 20, 2015 by Sakura12

[Cranberry]

I don't think that the original comment ("all of f/f platonic relationships in action-y shows become romances, even if one or both participants were set up as straight") applies to shows like Orphan Black or PLL, where the regular characters have been non-straight from the start and the writers fully intended to hook them up with their love interests from the time those characters were introduced. I think that "all" is definitely an overstatement, as well, but I don't want to go down the road of counting same-sex relationships and trying to determine if they've gone over quota. ;)

 

Peggy/Angie shipping can be fun, but I don't think anyone actually expects it to happen. Personally, I don't need to see any romance at all in these eight episodes. As for Peggy and Jarvis, I am always happy to see a supportive, platonic m/f relationship on TV -- the only others I can even think of offhand are Emily and Nolan on Revenge and Sherlock and Joan Watson on Elementary.

[Malbec]

I don't know if Peggy/Sousa is endgame, but I really don't understand this knocking of Sousa for being a passive-aggressive "Nice Guy."  I agree that he's a background character who hasn't been fully developed at the moment, but there's nothing in canon so far to support that he's going to be a dick to Peggy if she dates someone else.  I don't see him as passive so much as simply keeping his counsel until it's time to act.  (Whether he acts against Peggy or for her remains to be seen.)

 

As for Sousa not being Steve -- let's not forget that even Steve needed a metaphorical kick in the ass from Peggy to stop being the "dancing monkey" version of Captain America.  And that Steve was not the same person after his wartime experiences.  In the movies he's shown a) being completely broken and depressed when he thinks Bucky has died in CA:TFA, b) hiding out in the gym and destroying punching bags in grief over his losses in The Avengers, c) finally coming out of his shell in CA:TWS when he meets Sam Wilson.  The movie takes great pains to establish that their bond is based on mutual experiences with postwar trauma.

 

If Sousa is back from the war and is still suffering with some alleged "weakness", that would be completely in line with how Marvel has treated most of its heroes. Steve and Sam needed help with PTSD; Tony Stark suffered anxiety attacks; Bruce Banner's experiences drove him to attempt suicide.  A key theme of the entire MCU Captain America storyline so far is that being a soldier has a cost, and that the fantasy of being a super-soldier is different from the reality.

 

And that's where Krzeminski, in addition to being an ableist dick, was dead wrong: Peggy is one of the few characters who KNOWS that there's a difference between the fantasy of Captain America and the reality of Steve Rogers.  She loved the reality, not the fantasy.

 

As always, the disclaimer where Sousa is concerned: unless he's HYDRA.

[Shanna]

Malbec, I completely agree, particularly about being a soldier having a cost. This is one of the things that grounds these characters for me. I think we may even get to see some of this from Thompson in the future.

And I hate the "nice guy" trope because it seems to be misapplied constantly to just regular decent men like Sousa. He has done nothing to earn such censure.

I would add your "unless he's hydra" but I really don't think that will be the case, at least I really hope not.

[kattahj]

Thanks for the lesbian recs! I'd forgotten Orphan Black, it's been a while since the latest season... Of course, that show has plenty of platonic f/f friendships as well, if that's what you prefer. (Come to think of it, almost every show or movie I know with lesbians in it also has female friendships.)

 

As for the Sousa discussion, it's still pretty upsetting to me, and I may have to bow out again, but here goes:

 

First off, and to clarify something: Sousa makes exactly ONE snide comment behind a fellow agent's back ("Poor guy" etc), and it's right after Peggy specifically tells him not to try to fight her battles for her. Short of ignoring her wish ten seconds after she makes it, I don't see what else he could have done. He's called out both Thompson and Krzeminski to their faces when he finds them annoying, and when he lets a comment slide it's been because it targets his disability. Which, considering that he probably lost his leg a couple of years ago at the most (since he's still adapting to the crutch), I don't blame him for taking to heart in a different way.

 

Where Krzeminski's "No girl's gonna trade..." comment is concerned, it's not in the same BALLPARK as being right, because Krzeminski is talking about "Captain America", the perfect soldier with the fawning girlfriend, which is the antithesis of who Steve and Peggy are.

 

Steve was chosen by Abraham Erskine specifically because he was a scrawny little guy who knew what it was like at the bottom of the ladder (a weak man knows compassion). Because Erskine had come from Germany to the American army, and he'd drawn the conclusion, just like Harald Ofstad, that contempt of weakness is not a Nazi-specific trait. Both the Cap movies are largely about how Steve consistently works from an underdog perspective and undermines the übermensch image other people try to make of him. (The perfect soldier in Cap 2 is the Winter Soldier, who doesn't even have a mind of his own anymore.) When you get right down to it, Steve's the little guy who hates bullies. So when Krzeminski uses Steve's memory to bully his colleague, the only reaction I can imagine Steve Rogers having to it, had he been there to overhear it, would have been a punch in the face.

 

And likewise Peggy, regardless of what she'd think of Sousa as a romantic partner, would NEVER dismiss him on such shallow grounds, and she would NEVER let such a gross comment stand, either. (If she'd been there, chances are she'd plant one on Sousa just to make a point.)

 

Thing is, it's not possible to divorce Krzeminski's statement from Sousa's disability and pretend that he was just saying "she's out of your league". He wasn't. He was saying that Peggy wouldn't want Sousa specifically because of his disability, and furthermore he framed it as "No girl's gonna trade...", i.e. claiming that any woman at all is going to think less of Sousa because of his disability.

 

Which reminds me rather a lot of when my best friend, who is paraplegic, tried to apply for a theater class and they told her, "We don't take people in wheelchairs, and we don't think anyone else will either." That kind of generalization is an attempt to push responsibility over to the disabled person - I'm not being an ablist jerk, you're just naturally inferior.

 

And let me tell you, after a lifetime of crap like that thrown at her, it still got to her - I could see how much it got to her. She's learned how to push against the crap and refuse to let other people define her, but that's a long process, and I don't think it's any wonder Sousa hasn't learned it already.

 

TL;DR the bottom line is this: in a Captain America spinoff, bullies with fascist notions of human worth aren't right.

 

(On the "unless he's Hydra" front, maybe I'm reading into things, but Enver's veiled words and body language in this interview makes me think that there's at least one point in the show when Sousa and Peggy will be antagonistic. I'm hoping it's not in the Hydra sense!)

[Danny Franks]

First off, and to clarify something: Sousa makes exactly ONE snide comment behind a fellow agent's back ("Poor guy" etc).

 

 

And his snide remark about Thompson's interrogation techniques in the third episode. Twice in three episodes is not a good start, for a guy who gets maybe three scenes in each of those episodes.

[Shanna]

To be fair, most of thompsons interrogations involve punching the hell out of people. I think that is deserving of a comment!

[kattahj]

The "hasn't knocked out a single tooth" comment? That's barely more than descriptive, and sounds more surprised than anything else. Note that his boss doesn't take any issue with the comment either. But fine, twice in three episodes. That completely puts him on the same level as the guy who actually knocks out the teeth.

[Advance35]

http://tvline.com/2015/01/27/marvels-agent-carter-preview-peggy-stark-jarvis-sousa-finale/#more-582684

 

Well this article makes me think that Mr. Carter will remain undeclared but the audience will definitely receive a hint about who it is.    They seem to definitely want the audience to NOT rule out Agent Thompson.    I'm willing to trust the writers because they haven't let me down yet, but it's interesting they think he's a viable contender.

 

If both Sousa and Thompson are alive at the end of this I bet they leave the audience with the impression it'll be one or the other.

[Shanna]

Bleck in Thompson, I think that's just teasing.

They also teased Sousa with asking where he fought and not getting a straight answer. Maybe we will get something with the commandos next week...

[Rick Kitchen]

It can't be Thompson after tonight's sexist comments, there's no way Peggy would go for him, unless he's really something else in disguise.  I think he may be an alcoholic, also.

[Advance35]

I actually think it still could be.   Again not what I would have pictured and I doubt they are going to completely change him between now and the end of this Mini (seriously hoping for a sequel either on ABC or Netflix) but I could see them hinting at Thompson by the end of it all.   It would than imply quite the character journey for Thompson and Peggy if that were correct.

 

Though the way HA plays Peggy I'm surprised Peggy marries at all in the future (and HA said in an interview she plays Peggy like she's had the idea of romance knocked out of her) so it would be a character journey for both of them.

 

But than again I could see it being Sousa as well.  I love the entire show, but I also like this aspect of it.  The guessing game is really fun.

[Shanna]

I think the "guessing game" aspect is fun because they aren't bothering to write a romance in screen. So you can think through where the friendships and antagonistic relationships might go.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Shanna

[patchwork]

Is it wrong that I want Howard and Peggy to have a wild affair even though it ultimately can't go anywhere?  

Edited January 29, 2015 by patchwork

[FurryFury]

Hey, I totally understand you! Howard/Peggy are on fire together. Although I think the latest ep made them a bit more sibling-like than they were shown before.

[Malbec]

Is it wrong that I want Howard and Peggy to have a wild affair even though it ultimately can't go anywhere?  

I had this fleeting thought back in CA:TFA, so if you're wrong so am I :)

[peachmangosteen]

I am all about Peggy/Howard.

[Leia1979]

Though the way HA plays Peggy I'm surprised Peggy marries at all in the future (and HA said in an interview she plays Peggy like she's had the idea of romance knocked out of her) so it would be a character journey for both of them.

 

 

I think that's very true for where Peggy is right now. All we really know is that she's married by 1953, so for all we know, she won't even meet the guy until 1950. 

[Danny Franks]

I am all about Peggy/Howard.

 

Peggy is way too smart for Howard's nonsense. I love that there wasn't even a hint of jealousy when she kept catching him with different girls. Just increasing exasperation that he can't keep Little Howard under control.

 

What I also like, from Howard's side, is that he seems to understand that Peggy is too smart for his nonsense, and so he never tries to seduce her or even hit on her. It's a nice relationship where there may well be attraction (there definitely is on Howard's side), but they both know it's as platonic as can be.

[peachmangosteen]

You're free to your opinion, but I still hope they have a torrid affair one day. ;)

Edited January 30, 2015 by peachmangosteen