Relationships: Speed Dating

[Xander]

I really hope we can avoid Ollie's "Guys like us don't get the girl" crap since it will be OOC for Barry to suddenly act that way if Iris gave him a chance. 

 

I don't get why writers think a guy sleeping with sisters is something the audience would find engaging. They also tried that in Sleepy Hollow but the audience backlash forced them to back away from it. 

[phoenics]

Not enough women in the writers' room.

[driedfruit]

I hardcore ship BrOTPs over OTPs, so I'm hoping Linda/Barry is going to lead to Linda/Iris. This show is lacking so hard in female relationships/friendships that it's getting depressing.

[phoenics]

I hardcore ship BrOTPs over OTPs, so I'm hoping Linda/Barry is going to lead to Linda/Iris. This show is lacking so hard in female relationships/friendships that it's getting depressing.

I had been hoping for that too, but I kinda doubt it will happen. We can't even get a ParentalOTP with Iris and her dad. Instead we get the ParentalOTP of Joe and Barry.

I know this is The Flash and it's all about The Flash, but I am becoming a little frustrated in the tunnel writing we're seeing.

[FurryFury]

Yeah, I'm feeling like Arrow was less all about Oliver in its s1 than Flash is all about Barry. It seems like he just completely dominates the storyline, especially regarding relationships. Arrow s1 tried to show and develop Laurel/Tommy, Tommy/Malcolm, Laurel/Quentin, Moira/Thea, Thea/Roy, etc (although some of them only started to happen later in the season). Here, the only relationships that had more than 1 scene are Caitlyn/Ronnie (who still got very little time together, but I assume we're only in the beginning) and Eddie/Iris (which is VERY shallow and undeveloped).

[Shanna]

Yeah, I'm feeling like Arrow was less all about Oliver in its s1 than Flash is all about Barry. It seems like he just completely dominates the storyline, especially regarding relationships. Arrow s1 tried to show and develop Laurel/Tommy, Tommy/Malcolm, Laurel/Quentin, Moira/Thea, Thea/Roy, etc (although some of them only started to happen later in the season). Here, the only relationships that had more than 1 scene are Caitlyn/Ronnie (who still got very little time together, but I assume we're only in the beginning) and Eddie/Iris (which is VERY shallow and undeveloped).

We've gotten some Caitlin/ Ronnie and joe/wells, and I am ok with the amount of iris/joe time personally, but yeah, I think arrow is more balanced. It's also been better about developing its female characters, even though if gets some well deserves flack for killing them off ;)

This show is very Barry centric. I think that will hurt attempts at putting him in a romantic relationship if they don't show is what his partner is actually thinking. I guess we're getting a romance plot line so we will see how they do with it...

[phoenics]

Yeah - I just watched a clip with Malese and Grant in their "meeting" scene and ... phoenics was not impressed.

Well - it's just a foil anyway...

I'm hoping we get to see Iris' POV soon... it's needed.

[Sakura12]

I thought they were cute in the clip. I like the actress, so I hope her role evolves more into becoming friends with Iris. 

[ElectricCityy]

I liked the scene between Grant and Malese fine. It's their first meeting and she's coming on to an oblivious Barry. Kinda meant to be a little awkward.

[phoenics]

I like the actress too - just didn't see any chemistry with her and Barry... but maybe you are right and it was meant to be awkward.

I'd love to see a friendship with her and Iris - but I doubt it will happen.

[Xander]

I liked the clip. It's something different for him and I welcome it. 

 

 

I think that will hurt attempts at putting him in a romantic relationship if they don't show is what his partner is actually thinking.

 

Lots of people are happy to see him attempt to move on and date someone else which might not be the case if we knew what she was thinking and it showed that she might have latent feelings or something. But since we don't know, we're glad to see him with someone else who's made her interest known. 

Edited January 31, 2015 by Xander

[wingster55]

Yeah, I'm feeling like Arrow was less all about Oliver in its s1 than Flash is all about Barry. It seems like he just completely dominates the storyline, especially regarding relationships. Arrow s1 tried to show and develop Laurel/Tommy, Tommy/Malcolm, Laurel/Quentin, Moira/Thea, Thea/Roy, etc (although some of them only started to happen later in the season). Here, the only relationships that had more than 1 scene are Caitlyn/Ronnie (who still got very little time together, but I assume we're only in the beginning) and Eddie/Iris (which is VERY shallow and undeveloped).

While I agree that the show doesn't have enough Iris/Joe, I can't fully agree that there aren't substantial relationships with others. Caitlin and Cisco for instance...we've gotten a lot with that friendship..as well as Wells with Caitlin and Cisco. 

[FurryFury]

A lot? One meaningful scene is far from a lot. As for Wells with his subordinates - his dynamic with Pied Piper in one episode was much more nuanced and better explored than with any of them except for Barry. So I can't agree. Being in scenes together doesn't always mean building up relationships between the characters involved. More often than not it serves the needs of the plot, and isn't used to develop the supporting characters.

Edited January 31, 2015 by FurryFury

[bettername2come]

I agree that we've gotten a substantial amount of Caitlin/Cisco friendship, and I think we have been since their first appearance on Arrow, where their rapport is established and we see him try to talk with her about Ronnie, something that was continued with "The Man in the Yellow Suit." Along with their hug after Cisco's terrible rescue attempt and Caitlin being the first thing Cisco asked about when he woke up this week, I think we've gotten good moments for them so far, especially recently, even if some of them have been more subtle than others.

I'm also liking the scenes we've had so far of Joe and Eddie, with Joe confiding in him about the Flash and their investigation of Dr. Wells, while still having the hints of "I'm the Iris's dad and I have a gun" when their partnership isn't really the focus. IMO, Eddie's best scenes this season have been with Joe, not Iris.

Edited January 31, 2015 by bettername2come

[lilithred]

Honestly, at this point, I ship the hell out of Cisco/Caitlin and would love to see where that could go. I knew it was official when he woke up and his first word was "Caitlin". Seeing as how I ship Fitzsimmons, Westallen, and now Ciscait, I obviously have a soft spot for the "best friends attached at the hip who would do anything to protect each other" thing. I don't know if Caitlin and Cisco are best friends, but in my head, they are. I know there's like a 2% chance of it happening but I'll still enjoy their friendship scenes and hope.

 

As far as what made people ship Snowbarry over Westallen before the even show aired, well, there's the obvious thing that we won't even get in to. And then there's what another poster mentioned about people latching on to them as the new Olicity just because she was a science chick and on Barry's team, but I also think it's because of this strange, new trend that has people immediately rejecting the canon ship and preferring the crack ship/background pairing and trying to make it happen instead. It happened with Arrow, and although I don't watch, didn't it happen on The 100 with Clarke and her love interest? I think a lot of people just fancy themselves to be rebels and find themselves adverse to the main canon ship, no matter how it's written.

[Shanna]

I think a lot of times the "canon" ships are written badly.

I actually though Barry and Caitlin had interesting chemistry, although I'm not necessarily 'shipping' them.

[driedfruit]

didn't it happen on The 100 with Clarke and her love interest?

 

Clarke had another love interest, but Bellamy was the male lead. And Bellamy/Clarke's relationship, while not romantic, was the centre of the show's first season. I don't ship them, but I assumed they were getting slow-burn writing in the same way as Abby/Ichabod and Sherlock/Joan. And fans were encouraged by Bellamy being Clarke's love interest in the book series that inspired the show. 

 

Honestly, at this point, I ship the hell out of Cisco/Caitlin and would love to see where that could go. I knew it was official when he woke up and his first word was "Caitlin".

 

And add his lingering look after she walked away in their first meeting. They've piqued my interest for sure.

[lilithred]

I think a lot of times the "canon" ships are written badly.

 

Agreed, and I meant to expand on that. I think that some people automatically think they won't like the main ship and that's why they write it off. When I heard what the set up was for Barry and Iris -- "best friend in love with the girl who doesn't realize it", I was not pleased. It's one of my least favorite tropes. I didn't expect to like them, let alone ship them as hard as I do. I think in their case, the writing has been really good, and it eventually won me over despite my reservations. Barry was sweet, and never acted (openly) aggressive towards Eddie, or entitled to have Iris like him back. It was impossible for me to not want Barry to find happiness and get the girl. And not just any girl, but Iris. Because instead of Iris being your basic, average unattainable dream girl that the main guy just needed to get over to find someone who appreciated him, they did a good job of showing just why Barry would love someone like her. And her love and support of him made me like her as a person, too. Basically, I think some people, myself included, didn't come into it with an open mind or expect to like them, and therefore, they don't. Self fulfilling prophecy. Here lately, especially after the Christmas episode, I saw a lot of people switch gears from either "not shipping them" to "shipping them" or "shipping Snowbarry" to "shipping both" and I honestly think it's because the writing is just there for Westallen. They are doing everything they can to sell it and make you understand and believe that they should be together. I'm there, and hopefully for the sake of people's enjoyment of the show, the things that are still bothering some people like a lack of POV for Iris, will be amended and more people will come around.  

[wingster55]

A lot? One meaningful scene is far from a lot

 

It's also the little things...like them conversing about how many flies Barry swallows when running. Or for meaningful Caitlin telling him about Ronnie first. (And I suspect him being the last one to see Ronnie pre-Firestorm will come up). 

As for Wells with his subordinates - his dynamic with Pied Piper in one episode was much more nuanced and better explored than with any of them except for Barry.

 

There's also the talk he had with Cisco this ep, the scene between the three in the Christmas ep...not much but they were there. 

[Sakura12]

I'm not opposed to shipping Barry/Iris (I do however loath combined shipper names). I just am not feeling the romantic chemistry between them, I see friendship and I like that relationship they have. I also don't go by "Because comics". I go by what is on screen and don't care what they are in the comics since that is a different story and medium. 

 

They also seem to be following the typical tropes with those two. First it's the best friend in love with the other best friend who is oblivious to it, then they are going to go with she starts to suddenly realize her feelings when the best friend tries to move on with someone else trope.

I did see the pics of Barry and Iris kissing, so I hope at least they are going to get them together sooner rather than drag it out for 5 seasons. I might be more accepting of them that way.

[phoenics]

I'm not opposed to shipping Barry/Iris (I do however loath combined shipper names). I just am not feeling the romantic chemistry between them, I see friendship and I like that relationship they have. I also don't go by "Because comics". I go by what is on screen and don't care what they are in the comics since that is a different story and medium.

I think it's kinda obvious that this is by design. The show has gone through a lot of effort to illustrate that when they are Barry and Iris (well, pre-confession), that Barry is completely in love with Iris and trying to hide it, while Iris is simply his best friend. They have a warm and comfortable chemistry. He's more comfortable with Iris than with any other female character (and every other character except Joe) - and likewise with her. And the show has been showing us that Barry while he is Barry with Iris isn't fully himself. So I think the show is saying that until Barry is completely truthful with Iris, there is going to be a wall between them. That wall partially has come down and as Caitlin said, it will be better. That's because the more honest Barry can be about himself with Iris, the more she can react to him honestly.

Contrast that to how Iris and The Flash interacted. That chemistry was utterly and completely different. Why? Well, the powers are one thing - but I think it's because Barry is fully being himself. This isn't like Superman and Clark Kent, meaning that Clark is the disguise and Supes the man. I think this show has been very determined to show us that Barry has been living a repressed life (see the mid season finale scene with his dad and the angry Barry episode with Arrow). Barry has been repressing his feelings for so long that as the Flash he actually gets to FULLY be himself. When he's The Flash, you see a bit of humor come out and a ton of confidence. And the reason the Flash chemistry with Iris was so potent is because SHE could feel that confidence.

Thus, my theory is that the show's creators/directors and cast are playing it that way on purpose.

Barry/Iris will be muted until Iris gets herself together and even then it will likely still be somewhat muted until Barry fully comes into his own and can be as confident as Barry as he is as the Flash - already he's that way with Team Flash - they get to see that there is no difference in his Barry with them and The Flash... because they know the secret.

I think the Barry/Iris chemistry will start to ratchet up a bit going forward with Iris eventually realizing her feelings for Barry and reciprocating them. If Barry can be "The Flash"-confident with Iris, then we'll see "The Flash"-Iris kind of chemistry coming from Barry/Iris eventually.

That's my take on what they've been showing us with these characters.

 

They also seem to be following the typical tropes with those two. First it's the best friend in love with the other best friend who is oblivious to it, then they are going to go with she starts to suddenly realize her feelings when the best friend tries to move on with someone else trope.

I did see the pics of Barry and Iris kissing, so I hope at least they are going to get them together sooner rather than drag it out for 5 seasons. I might be more accepting of them that way.

Eh - same thing happened on Lois and Clark and it was really excellent once Lois was the one feeling something back. I mean, I was okay with it before - I got my fix with her and Supes and wasn't overly concerned about the love triangle there - especially since Clark realized he was in a triangle with Lois and himself and put a stop to it and then he finally got serious about pursuing Lois as himself (Clark). He put himself out there - and Lois didn't reciprocate at first - but then she did.

I guess those tropes don't bother me - they happen in real life quite a bit.

Edited February 1, 2015 by phoenics

[peachmangosteen]

I am actually someone who admittedly does tend to want to go against the main/canon ships, for whatever reason, but pre-show I was ready to love Barry/Iris. In my circle of fandom they were who everyone was already shipping and the actors were so cute together in all the media. I was so excited that maybe I was finally gonna hardcore ship the endgame ship! But then the show started and it didn't happen. I don't even know why really. I love Barry/Iris together, but I am just not about them turning romantic. Their chem reads very friendshippy to me. Although after reading phoenics's post I could see that being by design. I am definitely open to shipping them actually and I still hope I eventually do.
 

Count me in as someone who's down for Caitlin/Cisco. I can't decide if I want them to just be BFFs or I want it to turn romantic, but they are definitely my fave male/female duo on the show.

 

But I also ship Eddie/Iris, which lol.

Edited February 1, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Shanna]

I'm not opposed to shipping Barry/Iris (I do however loath combined shipper names). I just am not feeling the romantic chemistry between them, I see friendship and I like that relationship they have. I also don't go by "Because comics". I go by what is on screen and don't care what they are in the comics since that is a different story and medium.

They also seem to be following the typical tropes with those two. First it's the best friend in love with the other best friend who is oblivious to it, then they are going to go with she starts to suddenly realize her feelings when the best friend tries to move on with someone else trope.

I did see the pics of Barry and Iris kissing, so I hope at least they are going to get them together sooner rather than drag it out for 5 seasons. I might be more accepting of them that way.

I feel the same - not opposed I'm just not seeing anything interesting yet. We will see when they actually start writing iris side of things assuming that happens at some point.

As for the tropes they add the extra element of a pseudo sibling relationship, which didn't exactly help. It makes their friendship interesting, but the shipping a little awkward

[FurryFury]

Well, I'm the person who almost always prefers the underdog to a canon/official ship, and no, it's not because i fancy myself a rebel. A big reason is that when shows focus on a romance immediately, they simply forget to write both characters as characters, not just one being a love interest for another, and they don't bother to really flesh out the dynamic between them. To ship, many people need interesting, dynamic relationships they can dig their teeth into. But most "pre-set" pairings don't offer that. They tell, rather than show. They don't get us slowly acquainted with the characters, they go in for romance over any other things, and it's annoying and makes it feel incredibly forced. And while yes, Iris and Barry were shown to be friends and to confide to each other, I still feel like their connection is just not interesting enough, compared, say, to Barry/Joe. A big part of it is that we weren't given her POV, but I'm not sure even that will help. Personally, I don't want them to dive into the storyline until both their relationship and Iris herself are given much more nuance.

Anothet reason to my sometime dislike of starter pairings is that they often involve characters who know each other, sometimes exes. I usually need to see the development, the evolution of their relationship, because this is the best part of any romance. Having them already know each other or even one already in love with another feels like jumping ahead and skipping the meat of the story. It's disappointing.

Edited February 1, 2015 by FurryFury

[ElectricCityy]

The way I feel about "WestAllen" romance will depend on their development moving forward. I think the actors have a nice, easy chemistry but I'm not feeling the sexual tension that is necessary for this type of love story not to go stale. I think the actors are capable because I felt some heat between them as they interacted as Iris and The Flash. Also hoping Iris comes to the realization that she has feelings for Barry on her own and that it isn't promoted by seeing him with another woman. And poor Malese Jow being used as a prop for an established ship. The CW needs to get her a regular gig on a show that won't get cancelled. I'm hoping the fact that she works with Iris means they want to keep her around and she's not just some 2 episode fling for Barry.

[Oscirus]

The show has gone through a lot of effort to illustrate that when they are Barry and Iris (well, pre-confession), that Barry is completely in love with Iris and trying to hide it, while Iris is simply his best friend. They have a warm and comfortable chemistry. He's more comfortable with Iris than with any other female character (and every other character except Joe) - and likewise with her. And the show has been showing us that Barry while he is Barry with Iris isn't fully himself.

 

Yet the writers can't come up with one reason that Barry actually loves Iris. And yes, I get if I think hard enough about it, that I should be able to come up with reasons, but I shouldn't have to put in that much work figuring it out.  There should be more indications from him ( at least through his voiceovers) as to why he likes Iris.  All I'm being shown is that Barry doesn't know the difference between love and lust. As a matter of fact I would even go so far as to argue that the only reason that he's even besties with Iris is because of little Barry.

 

I'm hoping the fact that she works with Iris means they want to keep her around and she's not just some 2 episode fling for Barry.

 

 

I doubt it since she works in the sports department but they could always transfer her.

 

I'd assume that another reason that Snowbarry fan club is so huge is that Panabaker has quite a following.  It's actually fairly surprising she doesn't have her own show.

[ElectricCityy]

 

Yet the writers can't come up with one reason that Barry actually loves Iris. And yes, I get if I think hard enough about it, that I should be able to come up with reasons, but I shouldn't have to put in that much work figuring it out.  There should be more indications from him ( at least through his voiceovers) as to why he likes Iris.  All I'm being shown is that Barry doesn't know the difference between love and lust. As a matter of fact I would even go so far as to argue that the only reason that he's even besties with Iris is because of little Barry.

Well they were childhood best-friends so it's natural that he would develop a crush that never quite went away because he was never able to act on those feelings. If Barry and Iris had dated in high school, they could have been married by now or it could have gone terribly wrong. I sure the not knowing what could have happened is why he hasn't let it go. I don't really need the writing feeding me reasons as to why he loves her. She's his family, she's a good person, she's beautiful, she's probably the only close female he's had in life. Has there been anyone else for him to really fall in love with?

[phoenics]

Yet the writers can't come up with one reason that Barry actually loves Iris. And yes, I get if I think hard enough about it, that I should be able to come up with reasons, but I shouldn't have to put in that much work figuring it out.  There should be more indications from him ( at least through his voiceovers) as to why he likes Iris.  All I'm being shown is that Barry doesn't know the difference between love and lust. As a matter of fact I would even go so far as to argue that the only reason that he's even besties with Iris is because of little Barry.

I think someone already stated upthread the many different ways that the show has shown us why Barry loves Iris... Obviously I don't agree with your assessment of the show in regards to Barry's feelings for Iris.

 

And in the spoiler thread - you said that people would be upset when Snowbarry happens at the end of S1 - was there some spoiler about this that I missed? Feel free to use spoiler tags!! :)

[Xander]

Wow. The show is definitely not saying that Barry is the kind of idiot that will stay friends with a girl for 14 years just because he wants to sleep with her. And I doubt that once he scratches that itch, he will realize that she was only a fantasy and there's nothing between them or something like that. But we'll find out soon enough. 

[Oscirus]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Barry's going to hit it and quit I. I'm just saying that his crush on Irish pretty much kept them close since I don't think the show has even shown them sharing the same interests.

 

I think someone already stated upthread the many different ways that the show has shown us why Barry loves Iris...

 

They stated what they got from the show but we've never even heard Barry say or go so far as to even imply any of those were the actual reasons that he "loves" Iris.   I guess it basically comes down to interpretation, since the characters themselves haven't confirmed anything one way or another.

 

-

you said that people would be upset when Snowbarry happens at the end of S1 - was there some spoiler about this that I missed? Feel free to use spoiler tags!! :)

 

 

Nope , no spoilers. Just more interesting answers to interviews and a feeling that I got from the show clip. I'll spoiler tag the rest just in case.

 

The accidental date with Caitlin, Linda  asking Barry if Caitlin was his girlfriend which by itself would be innocent enough, but with everything else happening seems to be quite suspect,  and another interview I read recently where the EP said that we'd be surprised with who Barry ends up with at the end of the season

[phoenics]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Barry's going to hit it and quit I. I'm just saying that his crush on Irish pretty much kept them close since I don't think the show has even shown them sharing the same interests.

So - I have a PhD in Computer Science. I actually don't mind it if my future husband isn't a techie. In fact, it'd be nice if he wasn't. What I'd like him to have would be a similar view on life - and I think that's where Barry and Iris come together.

I think the writers were telegraphing that with their "I need you to do one thing... I need you to believe in the impossible" voiceover speech that BOTH Barry and Iris gave... independent of one another. They clearly believe in the same things and have similar values. I guess I just don't think Iris needs to be a "scientist" in order to be with Barry. I do think that her being willing to experience those things with him illustrates that she loves and cares for him.

You said earlier that you couldn't see why Barry loves Iris - that we aren't shown why.

I'm thinking that having a woman who may not be all that geeked about science actually excitedly going with you to see it because YOU want to see it would be very attractive to a man. It's easy for a woman who already loves it to go - but it takes a special kind of person to be able to share in that kind of stuff when it's not even their thing. But yet Iris does it.

So - why does Barry love Iris? I think the show is doing a great job of showing us in nearly every episode.

I also think that Iris becoming a journalist actually illustrates her investigative nature - which goes really well with a CSI's investigative nature - they just tackle a problem differently... one with science, the other with "gumption", lol.

 

They stated what they got from the show but we've never even heard Barry say or go so far as to even imply any of those were the actual reasons that he "loves" Iris.   I guess it basically comes down to interpretation, since the characters themselves haven't confirmed anything one way or another.

Hmmm... maybe. I guess I'd rather let a show "show me" rather than "tell me". Weren't you saying we weren't getting enough "show"? And now you just want to be "told"?

 

Nope , no spoilers. Just more interesting answers to interviews and a feeling that I got from the show clip. I'll spoiler tag the rest just in case.

Yeah - I saw that too - he was implying Barry was in a triangle with nearly every woman from the show AND Felicity.

But when you link it all together like that - I can see why you might see that (especially since you want it so badly). I don't think many WA fans think Snowbarry could never happen (some do), just that we haven't gotten anything to show that Barry even sees her that way - or that even Caitlin sees him that way... as she's in love with Ronnie...

But - given how the show hasn't shown Iris wanting to "be" with Barry yet and how she's only seen him as her friend up until this point, the surprise could be WA - but I suspect it isn't because typically you don't do your endgame that fast, ;)

Edited February 2, 2015 by phoenics

[lilithred]

Yet the writers can't come up with one reason that Barry actually loves Iris. And yes, I get if I think hard enough about it, that I should be able to come up with reasons, but I shouldn't have to put in that much work figuring it out.  There should be more indications from him ( at least through his voiceovers) as to why he likes Iris.  All I'm being shown is that Barry doesn't know the difference between love and lust. As a matter of fact I would even go so far as to argue that the only reason that he's even besties with Iris is because of little Barry.

 

I'm so confused by this post. Do you really think that Barry is only friends with Iris because he wants to bang her? That he's held on to this crush for 14 years because he wants to get in her pants? When have we ever been shown Barry "lusting" after Iris, to the point where you think he doesn't understand the difference between that and love? Barry seems quite mopey and sad about the fact that he can't be with Iris, not like he's horny and disappointed because he can't sleep with her. 

 

They stated what they got from the show but we've never even heard Barry say or go so far as to even imply any of those were the actual reasons that he "loves" Iris.

 

Why do we need to hear him say it? It's been shown onscreen plenty of times. If a girl who has absolutely no interest in your nerdy hobbies or science events, skips right along aside you once you find out you get to go to one and seems just as excited as you are about it -- she's a keeper. When Barry talked to Iris as the Flash for the first time and found out just how far she would go to prove to him and everyone else that Barry wasn't crazy, he said to her that "her friend" was a lucky guy. He knows, and we know, just how much Iris loves him (as a friend) and just how important he is to her. Why do we need it spelled out? Maybe someday soon, we'll get to hear Barry say "I love you because you're funny and you're kind and you're always there for me" but I'm doing okay without it. I can see that for myself.

 

Regarding the spoiler --

it's Iris. His quote was that whatever girl would land him in the back half of the season would be a surprise. So far, Iris has shown no romantic interest in Barry and she's just moved in with her boyfriend. Her getting together with Barry should be somewhat surprising. That's his way of trying to keep some mystery about it because anyone with eyes can see that they will eventually get together. Episode 16 where the kiss happens is the back half of the season. Unless they're going to have Barry kiss Iris and then suddenly realize he's not in love with her, and it's been Caitlin this entire time, the kiss was what the EP was referring to.

And if I'm wrong and they've been somehow building towards some epic love story between Snowbarry, they've done a shitty job at it and I won't be sticking around to see what else they've got up their sleeves. 

Edited February 2, 2015 by shar

[Trini]

I don't think they are building towards a Barry/Caitlyn pairing. Especially since Caitlyn mentions Ronnie nearly every episode.

[peachmangosteen]

Yea, I mean I don't ship Barry/Iris and I thought I might ship Caitlin/Barry during the first couple eps (but I really don't ship them currently), but the show doesn't seem to be building up Caitlin/Barry at all right now. I don't even see any hints. Maybe eventually they will, but I don't see how they'd be able to get there by the end of the season unless it's just for a cheap shock.

 

I think it's definitely clear why Barry loves Iris. I don't question it. I think it's clear why Iris loves Barry too, but I don't think they've shown her as being 'in love' with him at all. 

Edited February 2, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Shanna]

I don't question that Barry loves iris. She's pretty and sweet and they're friends.

I do wonder about this love that built from a childhood crush for what, 15 years? Without ever going for it? Without iris ever noticing? It's weird. The pseudo sibling thing is weird. How much of this love for iris is simple inertia? I don't know. It's just not a setup that appeals to me, especially combined with the pining early on.

Now if they had portrayed them a friends and neighbors for years and then been shown a sudden change in Barry's feelings from friendship to love? That might have been more interesting because we could have seen the development of their relationship onscreen and Barry's feelings, importantly. It would also have made him look less pathetic and iris less oblivious.

[peachmangosteen]

I do wonder about this love that built from a childhood crush for what, 15 years? Without ever going for it? Without iris ever noticing? It's weird. The pseudo sibling thing is weird. How much of this love for iris is simple inertia? I don't know. It's just not a setup that appeals to me, especially combined with the pining early on.

Now if they had portrayed them a friends and neighbors for years and then been shown a sudden change in Barry's feelings from friendship to love? That might have been more interesting because we could have seen the development of their relationship onscreen and Barry's feelings, importantly. It would also have made him look less pathetic and iris less oblivious.

 

This. Wow, yes exactly.

[driedfruit]

I don't question that Barry loves iris. She's pretty and sweet and they're friends.

I do wonder about this love that built from a childhood crush for what, 15 years? Without ever going for it? Without iris ever noticing? It's weird. The pseudo sibling thing is weird. How much of this love for iris is simple inertia? I don't know. It's just not a setup that appeals to me, especially combined with the pining early on.

Now if they had portrayed them a friends and neighbors for years and then been shown a sudden change in Barry's feelings from friendship to love? That might have been more interesting because we could have seen the development of their relationship onscreen and Barry's feelings, importantly. It would also have made him look less pathetic and iris less oblivious.

 

Those are exactly the reasons why Iris and Barry were expected to be the underdog couple in the fandom, despite their canon status, because their set up was obviously not going to be to a lot of people's taste. Nor was it very sexy, as CW couples go. And yet, WestAllen are a hit.

 

I tend to think their popularity is due to solid execution. While far from unique, their story has been well constructed thus far by setting up Barry's (as of now) unrequited love for Iris as sincere and plausible, as opposed to the more common distant crush. And the actors really do have great chemistry, whichever way people see it. Those things count for a lot when IMO most romantic pairs are poorly constructed to begin with even within their trope, and often the actors lack chemistry of any kind. 

Edited February 3, 2015 by driedfruit

[Sakura12]

I tend to think Barry/Iris are popular because there is no other option. Barry hasn't been interested in other women and the two women he interacted with (Felicity and Caitlin) haven't sparked that much with him. 

 

I don't really like to be told to ship a couple, I like to see it unfold naturally and go from there. Unless the actors have smoking hot chemistry. I'm not getting any of those from Barry/Iris. Or Barry/anyone right now. 

Edited February 3, 2015 by Sakura12

[driedfruit]

I tend to think Barry/Iris are popular because there is no other option.

 

That's not really how ships get popular in fandom. Generally when there are no good options, no big ships emerge, even on CW shows. Other times a crack ship (het or slash) completely takes over (like in Teen Wolf ).

 

 

Edited February 3, 2015 by driedfruit

[Sakura12]

People starting shipping because two people are standing next to each other in a picture. So, yes you are right there is no rhyme or reason to people shipping a couple. But for comic shows, you do have people shipping Barry/Iris because comics. 

 

I don't follow the Flash fandom that much, but I don't think B/I are nearly as popular as Olicity or whatever Teen Wolf or Vampire Diary ship is going on now. I think it's still to early to say that they are the most popular ship on this show. Olicity didn't really blow up until towards the end of S1 and came alive in S2. 

Edited February 3, 2015 by Sakura12

[driedfruit]

Sure, people crack ship all the time. But that's not in the same level as large fandoms. It's unfounded to suggest a fandom as hardcore as WestAllen's are at it because they're lukewarm and there is nothing better. Having been a teenager and involved in these things, I've seen the dedication that goes into it, and how it's rare that a couple gets so much love so fast, whatever the circumstances surrounding the romance on the actual show.

 

And fandoms gain momentum over time, so there is no point in comparing WestAllen to much older ships. I was a Gossip Girl fan back in the day, and the last time I saw so much frenzy for a couple in season one was for Chuck/Blair. 

Edited February 3, 2015 by driedfruit

[Sakura12]

I'm not dismissing shippers, I don't see anything to show me that Barry/Iris is as super popular as you are saying it is. I see people not hating it or being open to it, but I don't see it blowing up the internet like Olicity does. 

 

I barely ship any pairing on any show. I think Iris needs to be her own character rather then be tied down to being Barry's love interest. 

[driedfruit]

Olicity weren't nearly as popular in middle of their first season as WestAllen are right now. Otherwise it's not a fair comparison between a couple on its first season versus one on its third. 

 

"I don't see it" is the argument I've seen used against every popular couple in every fandom I've been involved in. But if you check tumblr tags and twitter and have a sense of how fandoms go, you can see by the large amounts of activity WestAllen get just how popular they are. And most couples on their first season just don't garner this much hype amongst fans. 

 

And whatever the issues with Iris, both the character and actress have gained a large dedicated following too. 

Edited February 3, 2015 by driedfruit

[Sakura12]

I think Outlander begs to differ on that. Or any cop show including Sci-Fi ones with female and male partners. 

 

I don't follow fandoms or fanfiction anymore since it's mostly only about shipping, Since I'm not interested in that, there is nothing there for me. I like to see the characters as an individuals and will only follow people posting about the characters being awesome without a love interest being there all the time. 

Edited February 3, 2015 by Sakura12

[driedfruit]

Outlander is a very distinct case though given the book series was heavily based on romance to begin with and many people were going in as shippers. Are there a lot of instantly popular cop shipper fandoms? The only one I know of are Abbie/Ichi.

[Sakura12]

And whatever the issues with Iris, both the character and actress have gained a large dedicated following too.

 

I like Iris and Candice Patton, she won me over despite giving me Laurel flashbacks in the beginning. I hope she's able to do more and be more than just Barry's love interest. 

[ElectricCityy]

 

I don't really like to be told to ship a couple, I like to see it unfold naturally and go from there. Unless the actors have smoking hot chemistry. I'm not getting any of those from Barry/Iris. Or Barry/anyone right now.

Yeah, I find that I have very few ships as I refuse to ship anything simply because it's canon. It's not about rebelling against the writing. Chemistry is a subjective thing and if people don't feel Grant and *insert name here* have that spark, that's not a fact but it's their perspective. For me, it's not just about how well two actors work together, it's about much needed romantic/sexual tension that I haven't really felt between Barry and any woman thus far.

[Shanna]

And yet, WestAllen are a hit.

With whom? They aren't even dating yet.

I will make up my own mind regardless.

I don't really like to be told to ship a couple, I like to see it unfold naturally and go from there..

I'm mixed on this. I swear I'm not just a contrarian! I like couples like castle and Beckett, who were obviously set up from day one. If the writing, casting and chemistry work I'll be on board, but I'm not going to root for a couple just because someone tells me they are canon or popular. Edited February 3, 2015 by Shanna

[Sakura12]

I'm mixed on this. I swear I'm not just a contrarian! I like couples like castle and Beckett, who were obviously set up from day one. If the writing, casting and chemistry work I'll be on board, but I'm not going to root for a couple just because someone tells me they are canon or popular.

 

That's why I said unless they have smoking hot chemistry. Which could change my mind. 

Edited February 3, 2015 by Sakura12

[ElectricCityy]

 

I'm mixed on this. I swear I'm not just a contrarian! I like couples like castle and Beckett, who were obviously set up from day one.

If I remember correctly, Caskett had more of a like/hate relationship at the start of the series and eventually it developed into them falling in love seasons later. It's okay for the endgame couple to already be apparent but it shouldn't be rushed nor should the "falling in love" development happen off-screen. Here, we already have Joe and Barry's father telling the audience how much Barry loves Iris and it's only been 11 episodes. We never got to see Barry fall in love with her which actually bothers me a bit but that comes with them being childhood besties. We never got to see it unfold on-screen, WestAllen have a lot of fans so it's not a big deal for everyone.