Relationships: Speed Dating

[Oscirus]

Oscirus, they've already shown that Iris is sometimes a doormat for her father. She didn't pursue a career in law enforcement because he didn't want her to and she kept her relationship with Eddie a secret because she didn't want to face his disapproval. Despite being a grown woman, she still wants her daddy's approval.

 

She has been fairly independent in her relationship decisions. Yea, she did keep the relationship secret for a while but once it came out, she continued dating Eddie, dad and Barry be damned.  Hell, even when it seemed like destiny was trying to put her and Barry together, she still chose Eddie.

 

My problem isn't so much Iris's pov as much as it's the relationship between Barry and Iris. They're supposed to be best friends yet he's easily been a better friend to Cisco and Oscar, hell, I wouldn't even argue if you said he was a better friend to Caitlin. Basically, my point is that this show can't even sell them as best friends, so I seriously doubt that these writers have the depth to sell those two in a believable romance.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I know I harp on this repeatedly, but TheCW would never do things that would make the most sense when it comes to interpersonal relationships, thus making them awkward or potentially destroying them in the future.

 

Instead of having Iris coming to Scott with the final story, and telling him that she was sorry for (accidentally) leading him on, but she wasn't upset and they'd just move on from it.  But of course, no, can't do that.  They write it as her being intrigued and open to starting a relationship with him after the shock passed and some thinking about it.  Extremely frustrating that how it played out was totally expected, and not at all surprising.  And let's remember, this was just ~over 24 hours after making a quip about what not-to-do while getting married to Barry, to Barry. 

 

Writers and show-runners never do Iris many favors.

Edited March 23, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Ruby25]

The other thing that's weird is that we see at the start of this episode her kinda flirting with Barry at the club. She's the one who brings up the marriage and the Netflix and chill thing, so it's obvious that the E2 marriage has made her start thinking about him that way for maybe the first time ever, and then at the end she's into going out with her boss? What?

 

I know this guy is likely extremely temporary, but I just don't understand why he needs to exist at all. What's the point?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

The other thing that's weird is that we see at the start of this episode her kinda flirting with Barry at the club. She's the one who brings up the marriage and the Netflix and chill thing, so it's obvious that the E2 marriage has made her start thinking about him that way for maybe the first time ever, and then at the end she's into going out with her boss? What?

 

I know this guy is likely extremely temporary, but I just don't understand why he needs to exist at all. What's the point?

 

Ship. Stalling.    Its TheCW's .

 

That, and like I said previously, they treat Iris [and by extension, Candace] very disrespectfully;  by showing interest in Barry and then, almost immediately after, forgetting him because the boss wants a go at her.

Edited March 23, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Oscirus]

To be fair, I believe she also joked with being a hyphenator with Barry right after  getting engaged to Eddie.   I took that scene more as friendly ribbing then her actually accepting the fact that they would be married.

 

I get what the writers are going for, using someone else to finally get Iris to embrace the dating world again. But since we've barely seen her grieving or even turning down date offers, it's hard to take this storyline seriously. Especially with that sloppy assed set up.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Oscirus

[Ruby25]

Yeah, and the only thing I can think is that they're going to have Scott be the fourth person (after Joe, Eddie and Barry last year), to observe and tell her that she's in love with Barry rather than having her figure it out for herself, which she's perfectly capable of doing. They even set it up to start moving in that direction at the start of this episode, so why force this Scott guy into the mix? Why does she have to go for the wrong guy first every time?

Edited March 23, 2016 by Ruby25

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

^

 

Its just lazy writing;  falling back on old tropes that are easy to emulate and imitate. 

 

Can't have the target pairing get together too quick, so canon fodder [side-ship mates] are brought in to waste the time spent before the desired pairing finally gets it 'time to shine'.  That, and one (or both) sides of the pairing have to be shown to be jealous of the other a few times before their time together, while throwing the audience tidbits and hints of the future.

[zannej]

I didn't see any honest flirtation with the boss. Iris just looked like she felt supremely uncomfortable and there was zero chemistry between her and the boss. To me, it seemed more like she was trying to not hurt his feelings.

She's much more natural with Barry.

I watched an old interview with Grant and Candace. Grant was excited about the idea of Iris and Barry getting together and he said he hoped it would happen. So, he's in favor of it.

I wish they wouldn't push these awkward relationships that don't work though.

[Ruby25]

Yeah, but let's say Scott lasts just 2-3 episodes. That could easily be 2-3 episodes of tension, increased flirting and Barry/Iris stuff instead, without an extra love interest. Couldn't it?

 

I mean, are these writers incapable of understanding that you can tease a romantic pairing by creating moments between them for a while before anything actually happens?

 

If Iris dumps Scott and gets together with Barry within the span of like 2 episodes, I will be convinced that these particular writers really don't know how to prolong romantic tension between two people without the threat of another love interest in the picture. Which is odd, because I've seen that done on SO many shows, it seems like it's really easy to do.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I didn't see any honest flirtation with the boss. Iris just looked like she felt supremely uncomfortable and there was zero chemistry between her and the boss. To me, it seemed more like she was trying to not hurt his feelings.

She's much more natural with Barry.

I watched an old interview with Grant and Candace. Grant was excited about the idea of Iris and Barry getting together and he said he hoped it would happen. So, he's in favor of it.

I wish they wouldn't push these awkward relationships that don't work though.

 

It may not have been true flirtation on Iris' part - though it could be mistaken as just that - but she didn't directly shut him down either.  She left the door cracked for him to think he could try again if he wanted to, what with the "after the (initial) shock and thinking about it ... not a deal-breaker" bit.

Edited March 23, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[wingster55]

Based on Candice' recent interviews I don't think Iris will have anything substantial with Scott...the "her future" line seems more about Barry than anything else.

[Oscirus]

Well considering Scott's reaction to the coffee invite, I suspect that he's now out shopping for rings after her last comment.

[Trini]

On re-watch the coffee = date thing was kinda dumb, but the real icky part was at the end with Iris seeming okay with the 'flirtation' and maybe even encouraging it. Ugh. They still might have been able to do this arc without him being her superior, they just managed to find an unsavory way to do it. ::sigh::

 

In better news; the conversation between Iris and Barry at Da Club shows that Iris has been thinking about them as a couple, so progress on that front. And it was nice to see them hang out as friends.

 

And with the crossover next week, I expect some superhero flirting -- but nothing will come of it (at least not on The Flash).

[driedfruit]

Scott/Iris was bound to be a mess. How could they not be when the show has a track record of exactly zero for writing half decent romantic subplots? 

 

What bothers me more is the missed opportunity to explore a CCPN storyline about investigating Flash, starting with a case to look into what/who caused the Singularity and possibly leading into another investigation of Star Labs (and Harrison Well's death/reappearance). Is it too much to wish the show had a long running arc outside of Zoom is scary, Jay is shady, Zoom is Jay? This season is so lame.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

The absolute worst part about the whole 'misunderstanding' was Scott should have been upfront with Iris when she wanted to get coffee... then he proceeds to get embarrassingly butthurt because he mistakenly read what he wanted from the situation, instead of the true intent involved.  It was his responsibility to figure out (even before leaving CCPN) if it was more than just 'discussing a story' with a co-worker, all while on the paper's time.  He didn't find it a bit weird that she was pushing for a 'coffee date' during working hours?  Or was he just so hard-up for her, he ignored all reason and common sense??  If its the latter, and it still didn't send up huge red flags to Iris - even after having time to recover and think about it - then like I said previously above, the writers are seriously underrating Iris' mental acuity.

 

And just how desperate must one be to confuse 'grab a coffee while discussing a work matter [while still on the clock]' to mean 'I'm so into you'??

Edited March 26, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[phoenics]

The stupid work-coffee-date-misunderstanding that doesn't make any sense because "how stupid do you have to be to mistake that" aside, I think that the conversation with Iris and Barry in the club was Iris testing the waters to see if Barry still had those feelings for her. She broached the topic of them married twice during their conversation and each time, Barry answered, but then tossed out a "I can promise you that... but you know, not the wedding..." or "That sounds nice... for them" (when talking about E2 Westallen N&Chilling).

Iris' expression after each of those comments seemed like she was a bit disappointed and probably thinking that Barry just doesn't see her that way anymore. Even her comment to Barry about how she worried he didn't think he had anything left in this world, Barry made all about Patty, when I think Iris was talking about herself.

But the writers have made this so completely subtle that it might not mean any of those things.

I'm hoping that there will be some clarity tonight with this flashback episode. But I hope it doesn't end with Barry coming back to the present to tell Iris what a doofus he was with her back then right when Iris is about to try to open up about her feelings. But that's probably exactly what will happen.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

The stupid work-coffee-date-misunderstanding that doesn't make any sense because "how stupid do you have to be to mistake that" aside, I think that the conversation with Iris and Barry in the club was Iris testing the waters to see if Barry still had those feelings for her. She broached the topic of them married twice during their conversation and each time, Barry answered, but then tossed out a "I can promise you that... but you know, not the wedding..." or "That sounds nice... for them" (when talking about E2 Westallen N&Chilling).

Iris' expression after each of those comments seemed like she was a bit disappointed and probably thinking that Barry just doesn't see her that way anymore. Even her comment to Barry about how she worried he didn't think he had anything left in this world, Barry made all about Patty, when I think Iris was talking about herself.

But the writers have made this so completely subtle that it might not mean any of those things.

I'm hoping that there will be some clarity tonight with this flashback episode. But I hope it doesn't end with Barry coming back to the present to tell Iris what a doofus he was with her back then right when Iris is about to try to open up about her feelings. But that's probably exactly what will happen.

 

Agreed, that the club scenes could have been interpreted that way.

 

So glad it was kept in offscreensville, but Iris telling Barry she went on a date with Scott....  I can't keep doing this with you, CW writers.  I just can't.  Nothing really ever changes, so I'm tired of expecting anything different or better.  Just have to wait until you finally surprise me by pulling your heads out of your rear-ends.  *shakes head and walks off*

 

The nearly final scene of Iris watching the video of Eddie - and the realizations and implications laid out by his words - should mean good things for WA in the near future, but I'm betting it benefits lame-o Scott foremost at first.

[Ruby25]

I had the opposite reaction. That video scene reinforced the fact that Iris will never love anyone more than Eddie and whoever she dates, including Barry, will always be second choice. Which I HATE. This scene should have happened closer to the beginning of the season. For this not to occur until a year after Eddie's death just inflates his importance even more.

 

That's what they've got to fix now. The only thing that might fix it is for Iris to find out about the kiss in 1x15 and her own confession. She needs to find out she would have dumped Eddie anyway, because with the way they have retconned his character (he was NOT her fiance), and called him the love of her life, and had her spend a year in mourning for this guy (she still thinks about him every day?? So much for developing feelings for Barry)...it just really screws up the idea that WestAllen are soulmates.

 

Even I'm not convinced that she'll ever love anyone else, with the way they've made dead Eddie so important. This was a very poor writing choice. Very, very bad.

[Ruby25]

Another thing I'm increasingly starting to believe is that Iris's "long lost love" for Barry really is probably going to appear out of nowhere in one of the upcoming episodes.

 

And maybe that's my issue here- I'm SO used to shows showing the feelings building between people, and the tension for a significant length of time before something finally happens.

 

So I was expecting that to happen this season. I though oh we'll see Iris kinda sad that he's with Patty, we'll see hints of Barry still loving and wanting to be with Iris occasionally, and I just kept waiting and waiting to see that happen (that's what the slow burn is), and it NEVER did.

 

So I now think they're going to do like one, maybe two episodes of build-up max and then boom, they kiss or something. And that's it. That's probably where they're going with this, and I'm just so not used to that, that I find it very jarring. But I do think that's what's going on now, so I guess I need to just re-adjust my expectations.

 

Slow burn for these guys means nothing for 18 episodes (aside from alternate universe Barry/Iris), and then bam, romantic feelings out of nowhere. Okay. Got it. It's stupid and I don't know what the hell they're thinking by doing that, but I got it.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Ruby25

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Another thing I'm increasingly starting to believe is that Iris's "long lost love" for Barry really is probably going to appear out of nowhere in one of the upcoming episodes.

 

And maybe that's my issue here- I'm SO used to shows showing the feelings building between people, and the tension for a significant length of time before something finally happens.

 

So I was expecting that to happen this season. I though oh we'll see Iris kinda sad that he's with Patty, we'll see hints of Barry still loving and wanting to be with Iris occasionally, and I just kept waiting and waiting to see that happen (that's what the slow burn is), and it NEVER did.

 

So I now think they're going to do like one, maybe two episodes of build-up max and then boom, they kiss or something. And that's it. That's probably where they're going with this, and I'm just so not used to that, that I find it very jarring. But I do think that's what's going on now, so I guess I need to just re-adjust my expectations.

 

Slow burn for these guys means nothing for 18 episodes (aside from alternate universe Barry/Iris), and then bam, romantic feelings out of nowhere. Okay. Got it. It's stupid and I don't know what the hell they're thinking by doing that, but I got it.

 

You are completely right, especially if it does play out that way [no build-up, then BAM, they're kissing and in love with each other]. 

 

These writers have taken the (almost always) canon pairing (comics-wise, at least) and treated it with the utmost disrespect.  Not only is it stupid, its very stupid.  Stupid, with a capital 'S', 'T', 'U', 'P', 'I'  & 'D'.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Let me say that I am not opposed to a long-running UST and ship-stalled pairing, if done right - ie, not constant triangles or such crap.   But WA is one of those pairings that should never have been stalled in the first place, and definitely not past the 2/3 mark of the first season.

 

But starting the story out with Barry & Iris as 'almost' brother and sister & then her falling hard for someone while Barry was in a coma, its almost like they set this up for failure from the very beginning.  Only TheCW could screw something up so bad, so soon. 

 

[just like the same network, show-runners & writers screwed up the OQ/LL (& GA/BC) ship from the very start, over on Arrow, too]

Edited March 30, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Ruby25]

Another thing I'm a little concerned about is that when they do put them together, it's going to be slightly anticlimactic. I doubt we get another epic kiss by the waterfront moment.

 

They're so into this whole "Barry's mature and sober now" thing this year, that I REALLY miss his giddiness and joyfulness of the first season (I loved him best because of THAT), and I'm worried that when they finally do him and Iris he's just gonna be all whatever about it, instead of the pure excitement and bliss he conveyed last season at the idea of being with her.

 

It needs to a bigger deal than that.

[phoenics]

I had the opposite reaction. That video scene reinforced the fact that Iris will never love anyone more than Eddie and whoever she dates, including Barry, will always be second choice. Which I HATE. This scene should have happened closer to the beginning of the season. For this not to occur until a year after Eddie's death just inflates his importance even more.

 

That's what they've got to fix now. The only thing that might fix it is for Iris to find out about the kiss in 1x15 and her own confession. She needs to find out she would have dumped Eddie anyway, because with the way they have retconned his character (he was NOT her fiance), and called him the love of her life, and had her spend a year in mourning for this guy (she still thinks about him every day?? So much for developing feelings for Barry)...it just really screws up the idea that WestAllen are soulmates.

 

Even I'm not convinced that she'll ever love anyone else, with the way they've made dead Eddie so important. This was a very poor writing choice. Very, very bad.

Actually I don't agree with this at all. And I chafe at the idea that just because someone really loved someone else, that it means that they don't fully love someone else. Barry was shown to really love Patty (almost forgot her name though, lol), but that doesn't mean that he'll love Iris any less.

My take on the scene with Iris and Barry before the Flashback is that she THINKS the reason why it feels WRONG to be with Scott is because of Eddie. I believe that the shocker moment is going to be when she realizes that it still feels wrong because "He's not Barry, I guess..."

I couldn't disagree more that this screws up Westallen as soulmates.

Let's be real here - a lot of what we're seeing from Iris is retconning because that's what you do when someone dies - you remember things as more than they are. Iris loved Eddie - but she wasn't soulmates with him - but she was rightly devastated when he died. That was a horrible way to lose someone you loved and thought you'd marry and for many people, it makes them stuck. I believe Eddie's death made Iris get stuck where she was unable to process anything else.

Honestly it's the RIGHT choice to have a rebound guy in between Eddie and Barry so that all of the Eddie stuff gets washed away by Scott and so that Barry and Iris can start relatively fresh.

My worry right now though is that I don't trust the writers to actually do Westallen still. I keep fearing they are going to take another detour somewhere and not even with Scott.

But I do think that Barry's words at the end of the episode were about how moving on can actually prepare you for more than you could ever imagine. I think Westallen is more than either Iris or Barry (at this point) could even imagine because both probably feel like the other has given up on it.

Hopefully we get a scene somewhere where Iris realizes that her trepidation about Scott had nothing to do with Scott or Eddie and everything to do with the fact that he isn't Barry.

I just didn't see what you saw in last night's episode or even Iris' dialogue about Eddie this season.

Another thing I'm increasingly starting to believe is that Iris's "long lost love" for Barry really is probably going to appear out of nowhere in one of the upcoming episodes.

 

And maybe that's my issue here- I'm SO used to shows showing the feelings building between people, and the tension for a significant length of time before something finally happens.

 

So I was expecting that to happen this season. I though oh we'll see Iris kinda sad that he's with Patty, we'll see hints of Barry still loving and wanting to be with Iris occasionally, and I just kept waiting and waiting to see that happen (that's what the slow burn is), and it NEVER did.

 

So I now think they're going to do like one, maybe two episodes of build-up max and then boom, they kiss or something. And that's it. That's probably where they're going with this, and I'm just so not used to that, that I find it very jarring. But I do think that's what's going on now, so I guess I need to just re-adjust my expectations.

 

Slow burn for these guys means nothing for 18 episodes (aside from alternate universe Barry/Iris), and then bam, romantic feelings out of nowhere. Okay. Got it. It's stupid and I don't know what the hell they're thinking by doing that, but I got it.

Now this I totally agree with. This is very poor writing. I was hoping for more of a true slow burn where you actually got some mini-payoffs along the way with UST and "moments" where you clearly see something is building up... like Lois and Clark did all of S1 and S2 of Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman. Or Max and Liz in Roswell. Or even Oliver and Felicity (though half of that was by accident, when the show leaped to it, it did kinda come out of nowhere unless you were a shipper who looked under every crack and rock for stuff in the story to support it).

[Ruby25]

Actually I don't agree with this at all. And I chafe at the idea that just because someone really loved someone else, that it means that they don't fully love someone else. Barry was shown to really love Patty (almost forgot her name though, lol), but that doesn't mean that he'll love Iris any less.

 

Nope. Totally, completely, 100% disagree with this ENTIRELY. He didn't even want to go out with her because she wasn't Iris and he couldn't be bothered to even want to tell her who he really was.

 

He was SO not in love with Patty. At all.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Ruby25

[Trini]

Barry getting a goodbye message from Eddie for Iris was really mature and sweet. I'm glad we got Rick Cosnett back for a little bit. The show remembered that Iris is grieving...

 

(and now for the negative)

 

... way too late. Really, show? Iris thinks about Eddie "every day" and 3/4 into the season is the first mention of this? Barry's words to Iris about moving on would have had more impact if we, the audience, had actually been shown Iris struggling with (or at least remembering!) Eddie's death.

 

Obviously, Iris' grief is a low priority on the Writers list of stories to tell this season, but if they wanted to eventually lead up Barry and Iris coming together by the end of this season* there needed to be some references (to her getting over Eddie, growing feelings toward Barry) between the season premiere and now. A few scenes throughout the season; didn't even need to be whole subplot. Off the top of my head, Iris could have...

• talked with Caitlyn about losing a significant other, and moving on when she did with Jay;
• talked with Joe about missing Eddie, because he was his partner too;
• been comforted by Barry because his mother died too; or comforted by Joe because she lost her boyfriend and mother in the same year;
• helped Jesse with adjusting to leaving her world because she suffered loss too (yeah, I realize those aren't equivalent);
• and of course, confided in her 'best friend' Barry.

 

Did Iris ever mention Eddie to Wally? I can't quite remember.

 

 

*(and now I'm even questioning that -- they keep making me lower my expectations)

[Ruby25]

You're so right. This scene should have happened in like, episode three!

 

Waiting all this time and now implying that Iris has been thinking about him every day? It hugely inflates Eddie's importance in a way that diminishes WestAllen, esp if they're supposed to come together soon.

 

I don't know what these people are thinking sometimes. They're so utterly misguided when it comes to this.

[phoenics]

Nope. Totally, completely, 100% disagree with this ENTIRELY. He didn't even want to go out with her because she wasn't Iris and he couldn't be bothered to even want to tell her who he really was.

 

He was SO not in love with Patty. At all.

I said he was shown to love her. Not be in love with her.

I see Patty/Barry the same way I see Eddie/Iris except that they dragged Eddie/Iris out longer. Both were loves of the moment for Barry and Iris, but not THE love to end all loves for Barry or Iris.

[Ruby25]

I said he was shown to love her. Not be in love with her.

I see Patty/Barry the same way I see Eddie/Iris except that they dragged Eddie/Iris out longer. Both were loves of the moment for Barry and Iris, but not THE love to end all loves for Barry or Iris.

Disagree wholeheartedly. Barry never loved Patty. She was the ultimate "I guess I'll force myself to go out with this girl because she's super into me even though she's not Iris," person, but man he was reluctant in that (brief) relationship.

 

The show has heavily emphasized and told us repeatedly though, that Iris loved Eddie, so I have to accept that.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Ruby25

[phoenics]

Barry getting a goodbye message from Eddie for Iris was really mature and sweet. I'm glad we got Rick Cosnett back for a little bit. The show remembered that Iris is grieving...

 

(and now for the negative)

 

... way too late. Really, show? Iris thinks about Eddie "every day" and 3/4 into the season is the first mention of this? Barry's words to Iris about moving on would have had more impact if we, the audience, had actually been shown Iris struggling with (or at least remembering!) Eddie's death.

 

Obviously, Iris' grief is a low priority on the Writers list of stories to tell this season, but if they wanted to eventually lead up Barry and Iris coming together by the end of this season* there needed to be some references (to her getting over Eddie, growing feelings toward Barry) between the season premiere and now. A few scenes throughout the season; didn't even need to be whole subplot. Off the top of my head, Iris could have...

• talked with Caitlyn about losing a significant other, and moving on when she did with Jay;
• talked with Joe about missing Eddie, because he was his partner too;
• been comforted by Barry because his mother died too; or comforted by Joe because she lost her boyfriend and mother in the same year;
• helped Jesse with adjusting to leaving her world because she suffered loss too (yeah, I realize those aren't equivalent);
• and of course, confided in her 'best friend' Barry.

Did Iris ever mention Eddie to Wally? I can't quite remember.

 

 

*(and now I'm even questioning that -- they keep making me lower my expectations)

Completely agree with this.

And yes - she did mention Eddie to Wally - the way she did has poor Ruby25 in fits of despair sadly. I let her words roll off my back simply because I was so glad that they even mentioned Eddie w.r.t. Iris on the show for a change... she said he was her whole world - which I kinda understand... first big loves typically are and she thought she was going to marry him.

That doesn't diminish what Westallen will be at all to me. Like I said on the other thread for the episode, there is a huge difference between being the "ONLY love of someone's life" and being the "love of someone's life". Eddie was the former. Obviously Westallen will be the latter. It better be, lol.

Disagree wholeheartedly. Barry never loved Patty. She was the ultimate "I guess I'll force myself to go out with this girl because she's super into me even though she's not Iris," person, but man he was reluctant in that relationship.

 

The show has heavily emphasized and told us repeatedly though, that Iris loved Eddie, so I have to accept that.

Okay - don't really care either way - and it doesn't really change my viewpoint about Eddie/Iris being the "ONLY loves of each other's lives" up until that point - but Eddie is not the "love of Iris' life". If he was, she would't ever have been thinking about Barry like she was after his confession to her. Iris was right not to just dump Eddie for Barry - that would have been ugly. Instead, she was loyal. And she definitely loved him and wanted to marry him - but eventually she would have realized she'd made a mistake like Joe said.

[Ruby25]

Iris was right not to just dump Eddie for Barry - that would have been ugly. Instead, she was loyal.

I don't understand this viewpoint at all, tbh. Why should you stay with someone if you're in love with someone else? That's not an admirable trait and it's really not fair to the person you're with, is it?

 

But I said before, I really hope Barry tells her what happened on that erased day, because I think knowing that she would have left Eddie anyway will do a lot to decrease the memory of that relationship in her mind. And right now, that really does need to happen.

[phoenics]

I don't understand this viewpoint at all, tbh. Why should you stay with someone if you're in love with someone else? That's not an admirable trait and it's really not fair to the person you're with, is it?

Because just because she had emerging feelings for Barry doesn't mean she was ready to act on them. And most people would simply choose to remain where they are when they KNOW what that's about and not risk losing a lifetime friendship over feelings you aren't completely sure of. I don't understand the mindset that Iris was supposed to leap at Barry when she had never seen him that way before until he brought it up and even then all she could do was think about it - and even then she would be emotionally cheating.

She was right to step away. She had two choices - break up with Eddie for something completely unknown with Barry (because it was completely unknown), or stick with Eddie because she could "see" what that future was because it was her own choice.

The stuff with Barry got quickly complicated due to all of the future stuff, which would kinda strip her of her agency at the time. Now that she's been alone all of this time, she can contemplate the idea of Barry without any guilt... which I think she will after Scott gets her over the Eddie hump.

But I said before, I really hope Barry tells her what happened on that erased day, because I think knowing that she would have left Eddie anyway will do a lot to decrease the memory of that relationship in her mind. And right now, that really does need to happen.

I don't want them to tie Barry and Iris to Eddie and Iris at all. Let Scott be the palate cleanser, not Barry.

[zannej]

I can't remember if I posted this here before, but what if in the original timeline, Iris had married Eddie and had a kid but then Eddie either died or something happened and they split up. Iris could still have ended up married to Barry. What if Eobard was wrong about Eddie not getting the girl and if the reason for him being all-but-forgotten by history was because he either died in the line of duty or records from that time were lost. What if Iris was actually an ancestor of Eobard's as well. But that after being widowed or split from Eddie, Iris ended up with Barry. Eobard didn't know everything, and some things changed because he dicked with the timeline.

I don't believe in the concept about "the one" or that there is only one person for everyone or that there even is a person for everyone out there. Widows and widowers find new love and remarry all the time. The love might not be exactly the same, but it isn't necessarily a lesser love.

Iris' love for Barry is different from her love for Eddie. If/when she finally gets together with Barry, it won't be the same relationship she had with Eddie. Maybe it will be better. Who knows.

[Ruby25]

That's real life, but this show is not. In this particular comic book, that IS the love that Barry Allen and Iris West are supposed to have. There's decades of history to it.

 

I think it'd be a shame to not show that the way it's supposed to be.

[phoenics]

That's real life, but this show is not. In this particular comic book, that IS the love that Barry Allen and Iris West are supposed to have. There's decades of history to it.

 

I think it'd be a shame to not show that the way it's supposed to be.

That was from the 50s. Folks met and married their first loves and that was that. And also back then - Iris wasn't black either. I simply don't think having either of them have different love interests before finally settling on each other makes either of them bad or cheapens their story. I just don't. I don't buy into the concept that because either Iris or Barry loved someone else before finally realizing that they were IT for each other that it cheapens their soulmate status or bond.

Sometimes you have to love other people before you can really know that someone else is your soulmate. Love at first sight is nice, but honestly I don't believe in that anyway. It'd make me uncomfortable - the obstacles at least make me feel like folks earned that soulmate status. In the Jewish culture I believe, there is a word they have that kinda means soulmate... I think it means "meant to be"... but they don't apply this to couples until they have proven that they are meant to be, by actually being together until death do them part.... then people say they are "meant to be". I like that explanation of soulmates - because it's not about some grand destiny you have no choice in. Your meeting may be that way, but sticking together comes down to choice.

That's why I think it's good that they've updated the story a bit for more modern times. Most people don't have only one love these days. They have more than one. And even still, Eddie was not the love of Iris' life. She never said that. He was the "only love of her life" because prior to him, her life was FULL with Barry and her family. She'd never loved anyone before him. If Barry hadn't fallen into that coma, she never would have dated Eddie in the first place. Eddie doesn't diminish Barry at all.

I just don't see her relationship with Eddie as this epic great love that you keep saying the show keeps telling us. I don't even agree that the show is telling us that. What I took from this last episode is that the show is saying, Iris loved Eddie, he's dead, and now she has closure so she can move on. And probably in the moving on, Iris will likely end up trying with Scott and then realizing that the reason it felt wrong with him wasn't about Eddie - it was about Barry.

THAT to me is awesome. I just hope the show finally gives Iris a PoV on her feelings - we got some of that on her lack of closure with Eddie (that's what this episode was about, NOT about making us think Eddie was the love of her life), hopefully that continues with Iris realizing Barry is who she wants to be with.

[Trini]

In canon, their love IS supposed to "the" love. There's no one else for either of them, it trascends time, space, death, other universes, etc, etc..

 

The show has already tried to lessen that (on Iris's side at least) by forcing lame Eddie into the picture in the first place. They kinda screwed them over in some ways from the start, but the least they can do now is not reiterate over and over again how Eddie and not Barry, was the "one" for Iris. I mean, come ON.

 

I can't believe they haven't even gone into the lightning rod stuff yet. They are going to bring that up eventually, right?

I'm not familiar with the Barry/Iris relationship from the comics, but I don't know if they could even do that here. Clearly epic romance is not within these writers skill set or interests. And does it need to that deep? Could they do it justice if they tried? (And they are not trying.)

 

And while they've botched a lot of things with Barry/Iris, I don't think her loving Eddie necessarily negates their endgame. (And since Eddie has been mostly forgotten this season, I don't think that they've been reiterating Eddie as 'The One'.) Yes, she chose Eddie, but she also chose Barry once, also.

 

If they intended for their love to be that love, they should never have introduced them as practically being brother and sister. Everything that's happened has been about them trying to smooth their way towards a love story between people half their audience sees as related. I haven't read the comics and I don't care either way. But if you were hoping for an epic love story, I think that was pretty well quashed in in the first minute of episode 1.

Not related to the current discussion, but I'm really curious as to how Earth-2 Barry and Iris got together. There was no pseudo-sibling relationship over there. I hope they give a little more info if we see them again.

[Ruby25]

Clearly epic romance is not within these writers skill set or interests. And does it need to that deep? Could they do it justice if they tried? (And they are not trying.)

 

Probably not, with the way they've botched it so far. So frustrating. It has all this potential, but they keep pulling shit like this that makes things worse.

[phoenics]

Probably not, with the way they've botched it so far. So frustrating. It has all this potential, but they keep pulling shit like this that makes things worse.

Okay. Apparently discussing it makes it worse and then invites a whole lot of Westallen bashing from others who already hate it, so I'll just stop discussing it now. I like Westallen and want to see it happen. Hope the show manages to salvage it for you.

Edited March 31, 2016 by phoenics

[Ruby25]

I'm bashing the writers, not them. I want to see them happen the right way is all.

[phoenics]

I'm bashing the writers, not them. I want to see them happen the right way is all.

Not talking about you - read the Flashback episode thread toward the end and you'll see what I mean. I had to send johntfs to his bunk, lol.

Edited March 31, 2016 by phoenics

[Grace19]

I've hated how the writers handled some westallen storylines, but this episode is not one of them. This is matured and pheonics and driedfruit explained it better, this episode is very good for westallen, now all they have to do is get rid of scott asap.

[GHScorpiosRule]

 

Not related to the current discussion, but I'm really curious as to how Earth-2 Barry and Iris got together. There was no pseudo-sibling relationship over there. I hope they give a little more info if we see them again.

 

Well, I would think it was more..."traditional" in that Barry's parents are alive in Earth-2, so the living and growing up circumstances aren't the same. And Earth -2 Joe hated Barry.

 

I'm not saying that Iris shouldn't have loved Eddie or that she shouldn't have dated other guys, etc.  What I saw, and stated in the episode thread, was, we didn't see her grieving, looking over their pictures, telling Barry how she still missed Eddie, or rather, the fucking WRITERS didn't give Iris dialogue or scenes where we could see she was still grieving him, since the beginning of the season. But wait until near the end.  Because what little we did see of Iris, other than the premiere, it was like, Eddie, who?

 

I'm enough of a purist, that I want Barry and Iris together, dammit. And before anyone who has read my comments in Smallville accuses me of being a hypocrite, because of Chloe, let me say that had those fucking writers done their job and knew how to write a decent Lois, I wouldn't hate her. And don't get me started on Lana.

 

So yeah. I want BarrynIris or IrisnBarry. And I admit, part of it is also because Candace and Grant are so magickal together.  When they actually get substantive scenes together. And the show runners, those arseholes, are wasting and throwing away opportunities to take advantage and put them in the relationship they should be in.

[johntfs]

I think the writers kind of botched the Barry/Iris thing by making Barry Iris' foster brother.  The idea that the two spent years in a brother-sister relationship kind of kills any desire I have to see them in a romance.I don't like semi-incest and I don't like the idea of chosen/prophesied couples either, so that's two strikes against them in my book.  For my part, I was a bit intrigued when shapeshifter Barry was being flirty with Caitlin.

 

It occurs to me that something could happen where Earth 2 Barry and Earth 1 Iris get killed and Earth 1 Barry gets together with Earth 2 Iris...

[driedfruit]

 For my part, I was a bit intrigued when shapeshifter Barry was being flirty with Caitlin.

 

 

No, not Barry, a middle aged criminal perving on Caitlin and kissing her without her consent. Let me get this straight, co-habitation is gross but sexual assault is hot? lol 

[Trini]

Well, I would think it was more..."traditional" in that Barry's parents are alive in Earth-2, so the living and growing up circumstances aren't the same. And Earth -2 Joe hated Barry.

 

Were they still friends in elementary school? Did they start dating in high school? College? What age did they get married? When did Joseph start hating Barry? These are details I need to know, apparently. LOL.

[Oscirus]

think the writers kind of botched the Barry/Iris thing by making Barry Iris' foster brother.

 

That was a huge botch because they turned off a certain section of people whose  first thoughts are incest.

It also means that over-protective Joe was fine with putting a hormonal teenager with a crush on his daughter in the same house on a permanent sleepover. The writers also robbed Iris of the one thing in this story that Iris should've been able to have for herself. They couldn't have thought up any better foster parents then the father of the girl that he's supposed to be with?

 

As for the Iris- Eddie botch, I'm blaming everybody, the actress, the writers, the directors.  Barry brings up that they were married in another world and Iris ( who has recently lost a fiancée who she thinks every day about) doesn't react at all except to be intrigued by the idea.  That's pretty much this season's Iris storyline in general. There's no resentment, anger, sadness, just going  on about her every day life until the script calls for her to remember Eddie.

 

As for Barry- Iris, the writers haven't bothered to do anything to even justify them getting together other then just saying, comic books or destiny. Either way, I'm not as invested as I should be with such an epic comic book pairing.

[johntfs]

No, not Barry, a middle aged criminal perving on Caitlin and kissing her without her consent. Let me get this straight, co-habitation is gross but sexual assault is hot? lol 

 

No more than foster incest is best.  While the true situation was creepy and wrong, the visuals of Barry and Caitlin raised an interesting possibility for a relationship.

[driedfruit]

No more than foster incest is best.  While the true situation was creepy and wrong, the visuals of Barry and Caitlin raised an interesting possibility for a relationship.

 

It's funny you say that because visually I think Grant and Danielle look very alike, so much so they could believably play siblings (I had the same issue with the couple from the Fault in Our Stars).

[johntfs]

It's funny you say that because visually I think Grant and Danielle look very alike, so much so they could believably play siblings (I had the same issue with the couple from the Fault in Our Stars).

 

Possibly, but I know they aren't related in real life and their characters aren't related on the show, so I'd be okay if Barry and Caitlin got together.  I'd also be okay if they didn't.  Barry/Iris feels a little squicky to me due to their earlier relationship, but I could get over it.  I really don't have strong feelings about any romances on this show.  Aside from maybe Patty, who felt kind of Fatal Attraction in waiting.

[driedfruit]

 Aside from maybe Patty, who felt kind of Fatal Attraction in waiting.

 

LOL too true. I was surprised they didn't make her Zoom's lackey. 

[bettername2come]

LOL too true. I was surprised they didn't make her Zoom's lackey.

 

Plot twist!

 

It's funny you say that because visually I think Grant and Danielle look very alike, so much so they could believably play siblings (I had the same issue with the couple from the Fault in Our Stars).

 

And the two in Fault in Our Stars play siblings in the Divergent series. I wouldn't go as far as to say Grant and Danielle necessarily look like siblings, but they do look similar. Which makes them look more like one of those super-matchy couples to me. I wouldn't totally hate them being together in an alternate universe or something, although I'm all for Iris and Barry in this world. I think Candice and Grant have good chemistry, and they don't seem too siblings-y to me.