Spoilers With Speculation

[SueB]

Since when is Dean  dreaming about and enjoying strippers and nude models in magazines who actually get paid to do those things is Dean objectifying women again? Sorry, but that rubs me the wrong way.  Seems more like Dean getting back enjoying sex again if even in his own dreams. 

 

While I understand that these individuals are paid, I generally believe that the industry itself objectifies women (or men if it's male strippers/nude models).  That's kinda the point - to look at their bodies for the viewers gratification.I read a feminist stripper's blog who said essentially the same thing.  The point IS objectification but it's HER choice to be objectified.  So it is a consensual activity.  Which is why I don't see anything wrong with Dean enjoying these things. Dean has ALWAYS shown both appreciation and respect for those in the sex industry (stripper, porn stars, porn magazines, actual prostitutes) -- except when he was a demon.  What bother's me is more the meta to this (see below).   Note: if this was Rowena and it was male strippers? I'd say it was Rowena objectifying men.  Now it's possible, as rue21 suggests, this dream is being placed in Dean's head.  In which case -- it's DEAN who is being objectified as a sexual desires-driven individual. 

 

Let's get meta for a moment.  It's not really the time for either of these guys to have a romantic liaison in the first three episodes. The first three are amp'd up mytharc stuff.  So... the way they get "sex" on the screen is for Dean to be watching scantily clad strippers excite him in a dream?  I almost feel like I'm channeling Aeryn here: is Dean's value the sex-driven comic relief?  And it's not the first time that's happened.  Except for under the Gamble-era, Dean is usually the one with the sexual encounters and the sexual-overtones on assaults ("Your Pretty" Vamp, Abaddon, Magnus, Hippie Werewolf, Amazon breeding, etc...).

 

Liking strippers and porn is unambiguously part of Dean's personality.  He's not going to get married, he shows a healthy appreciation for these women, it's consensual. It's also, IMO, by it's nature, intentional objectification.  But the placement in the first 3 episodes?  Ensuring that there's faux sexy-time in the FIRST freakin' trailer.  IDK...I just don't like it.

 

I'm not explaining it well.  But this is about the best I can do.

 

 

SueB, how do you go through screen by screen?

Without my main computer (I'm on my laptop right now), I just have to run thru multiple times hitting pause/play so that I catch the stop at different moments. Otherwise I can copy and break it up in a movie creation program.  Some of the gifs on Tumblr have slowed down the imagery flash so you can see all the horror. 

[catrox14]

We know the trailer is up through at least ep 4 which is the Baby episode based on Dean's fight in the back seat. 

 

I'm not even sure why it's so problematic that Dean is having that kind of dream  He doesn't have control over what he dreams about.  I'd rather he's dreaming about random strippers and nude models than Lisa LOL.  Or Ann-Marie.  Or some other woman or even Cas or Sam.

 

I got the sense that "Ghostbusters" was not a joke. That maybe he's really working by himself or with Ed and Harry if Sam is not in the picture.

 

I'm wondering if the Darkness throws them both into different timelines and they meet up at that hospital. Something is squirrelly for sure.

[catrox14]

First four episode titles:

Jensen directing 'The Bad Seed' which is written by BuckLeming and probably has that rather awful 3way with the Busty Asian Beauties (that is my spec)since they always do that bad joke. I sure hope Jensen didn't have to direct himself in a sex scene. That would be awkward.

11x01: Out of the Darkness, Into the Fire

11x02: Form and Void

11x03: The Bad Seed

11x04: Baby

[catrox14]

Okay watching that trailer more. Um. Dean's eyes are fucking BLUE. Like blue as anything blue.  WTF?

 

Did someone else notice that? Am I seeing things??

[Demented Daisy]

Gonna toot my own horn here.  When Ausiello's blind item came out a couple of months ago, I speculated that it could be Sam and Dean separated.  Not saying I was right, but it's looking a bit more likely.

 

 

Okay watching that trailer more. Um. Dean's eyes are fucking BLUE. Like blue as anything blue.  WTF?

 

Did someone else notice that? Am I seeing things??

 

 

I didn't see blue eyes.  Any part of the trailer in particular?

[Demented Daisy]

Sue posted this last week, but it got lost amongst a bunch of other chatter.  (Not that the other stuff wasn't important, but anyway....)

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/29/supernatural-jensen-ackles-season-11-darkness

 

The most interesting bit to me:

 

“This one’s interesting because it’s not really a monster,” Ackles said. “It’s more of a primal force that we know nothing about. There’s no lore; there’s no guidebook; there’s no instruction manual on how to deal with this.”

 

Edited September 10, 2015 by Demented Daisy

[SueB]

Okay watching that trailer more. Um. Dean's eyes are fucking BLUE. Like blue as anything blue.  WTF?

 

Did someone else notice that? Am I seeing things??

I watched the youtube version and changed the settings (the gear wheel) to be .25 speed.  I saw Sam's eyes looking blue and maybe Dean's around the 22 second mark and again later. But I think there is a blue overtone on the entire trailer for most scenes.  I think that gives the blue-eyed illusion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzPtF_K1ltI

 

Sue posted this last week, but it got lost amongst a bunch of other chatter.  (Not that the other stuff wasn't important, but anyway....)

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/29/supernatural-jensen-ackles-season-11-darkness

 

The most interesting bit to me:

 

“This one’s interesting because it’s not really a monster,” Ackles said. “It’s more of a primal force that we know nothing about. There’s no lore; there’s no guidebook; there’s no instruction manual on how to deal with this.”

 

"..no instruction manual"

This got me thinking... yes, there is -- kinda.  See God made all the species that are going to have deal with this thing.  I think the comment about making unlikely alliances will factor in.

 

I'll try it differently, remember in Independence Day how it became humans vs aliens and nobody gave a shit about country of origin at the end?  Well, the darkness is sort of the destruction of all the things God created (Heaven, Hell, Earth).  Yes, it's a Judeo-Christian perspective but the "monster" is based on the that element of lore.  SO... what if the solution to beating the Darkness is to have all the creations work together to defeat it.  In other words, the "gudebook" is in what each brings (people, Angels, demons, witches, monsters, etc...).  Except maybe not Leviathans.  I'm thinking they don't play well with others.  What if defeating a common entity establishes a NEW balance between all the species.  A sort of self-determined one rather than how God set it up. Goes with the free will theme.

 

Or not.  I'm a freaking Pollyanna... I accept that. 

[DittyDotDot]

All this "it's a unknown evil without a handbook" stuff reminds me more and more of the chatter that came out in S7. They said the same thing about the Leviathans, too. However, I assume there's a Darkness tablet out there somewhere and that's why Jared was saying they'd need to take not-so-marvy Marv along for the ride. Unholy alliance No. 1?

 

 

"..no instruction manual"

This got me thinking... yes, there is -- kinda.  See God made all the species that are going to have deal with this thing.  I think the comment about making unlikely alliances will factor in.

 

SueB, are you suggesting that every species God made was deliberate on God's part as a weapon against the Darkness? It's an interesting thought, but God didn't create the monsters, Eve did. And Lucifer created the demons, not God. His creations are angels (created before the Darkness was locked away), humans and leviathans (which apparently were an experiment gone wrong). So, I'm thinking the answer lies in humanity somehow as he stopped his experimenting with humanity could suggest he had finally gotten it right. I do assume they're going have to team up with angels, demons and monsters alike to get the job done, though.

ETA: Thinking more on this, I hope this is the season they show us where all the angels come from anyway. I mean, since S4, they keep saying how their ranks were not infinite and how so many of them were killed in the various angel civil wars and then Cass wiped a goodly number of them out when he was God and a whole lotta them dying in the fall, but yet there seems to be more angels than ever. Where's the angel factory is what I want to know. ;)

Edited September 10, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[Wynterwolf]

What if defeating a common entity establishes a NEW balance between all the species.  A sort of self-determined one rather than how God set it up. Goes with the free will theme.

 

Or not.  I'm a freaking Pollyanna... I accept that. 

 

Yeeessss!!  This is what I saw them starting to build the framework for back in S8/early S9 ... (though I do agree with DDD that the starting point isn't necessarily being shown as how God originally set it up, but rather as simply how things evolved from whatever source).  Particularly when Dean was doing so much realm hopping.  I'll just sit over hear at the Pollyanna table too.  **goes back into lurker mode**

[catrox14]

At Comic Con- Carver prefaced..with 'ISH".  The boys would be back together - ish....Dean and Cas are back together-ish. So IMO the 'ISH' is AU/timeline/screwed up memories. 

 

Demented Daisy: I remember that discussion re the blind item. We both took some heat for thinking that it would be Sam and Dean. Maybe they split up Sam and Dean, but give us Dean and Cas as a canon couple in an alternate timeline? But then split them up. Can you imagine that hue and cry?  Give us Destiel and then rip it away.  I wouldn't put it past them LOL.

 

yes I'm quoting myself for reference.

 

 

Oh gods. Sam and Dean are a love story just not sexual.

Changing the DNA. What if we find out that Sam and Dean are not actually brothers? Or the darkness resets the universe with Sam and Dean not being brothers at all. HOLYYYYY CRAP. Would they dare?
That would definitely be polarizing.

 

 

I just get a vibe from everything that Dean is not in the same 'universe' as Sam here. I can't explain it but even when they were in that scene with guns they didn't have that "rhythm".  So my WAG now is that Sam and Dean do not know each other at all.

 

It's the zombie stuff at the hospital that brings them together. They learn at some point they are brothers.  Both unaware of the other.  Maybe they join forces as Hunters and then start to figure out they are really brothers.

 

Since the Darkness is primordial as in from the past maybe it's release has altered timelines or maybe just screws with humans memories. Maybe Sam eyeballs getting the Clockwork Orange treatment is him being forced to watch an alternate universe. It might be his "What Is and What Should Never Be" moment.

 

Wild spec on if it is an AU/timeline how they don't know each other:

 

Everything is the same with YED dripping blood in Sammy's mouth but

 

Dean sees the Yellow Eyed Demon. They make eye contact and Dean sees Mary burn on the ceiling. John tells Dean to run out of the house and that he'll be right behind. Last thing Dean sees is John picking up Sammy.  Dean runs out of the house and it explodes behind him. Wee!Dean is knocked unconscious and wakes up in a hospital. John, Sam and Mary are all declared dead and a traumatized orphaned 4 year old Dean is shipped off to foster care i.e. Father Jim's or the place in Bad Boys OR  DUN DUN DUN

 

another care home run by priest!Crowley who is an actual priest. Wee Dean never forgets what he saw and vows his own vengeance on YED and teaches himself how to be a hunter over time. When he's 14 he leaves the care home and starts hunting on his own determined to find YED. Ohhh and maybe Dean meets Charlie in the care home after she is sent there after being orphaned.  So Dean and Charlie become brother and sister there.

 

--For Sam's part, somehow John survived, knows the YED is after him and Sammy so he gives Sam to Bobby (because you know Bobby will be back they can't let him go) while he tries to find Dean but he's killed by the YED before he can find Dean. Bobby decides that Dean is probably better off in a care home but he's promised John to take care of Sam and raises Sam to become a Hunter and his name is changed to Sam Singer. 

 

 

 

I've gone way down that rabbit hole...I should do some AU writing....

[Omegamom]

Oh, heavens, yes, write it up! That's quite an interesting rabbit hole!

But, alas, I don't think the writers will be going in that direction. Far too interesting. ;-)

[catrox14]

Heh, I don't think it's that interesting but it's just something in my head because of Jensen's comments about it being a ctrl-alt-delete. A reboot. Despite his seeming to loathe technology he's not stupid. He knows what that means LOL. He's also fond of saying "give them what they want in a way they don't expect". He's said it's a throwback to the beginning of the show. So all those things leave me asking "How do you reboot/reset without going back to the beginning to some degree"  Of course he could just be talking about the tone of the show, the look and feel and it's Sam and Dean working together again. Who knows!

 

It's Dean's manner here that makes me wonder about the timeline.  His almost non-chalance when he answers 'Ghostbusters" in IMO a very non-sardonic, non-sarcastic way. Of course, it's out of context but I still find it...pretty straightforward. If it is sincere then it maybe it falls into a flashback/AU thing that Sam could be envisioning. I could live with that.  Also, that's the only line Dean speaks in the entire trailer and Cas has none.  Only Crowley and Sam's dialogue are in the trailer...that seems...odd.  I don't know if it's meaningful or just the promo monkeys being cagey in whatever way.   Yes they aren't going to tell us everything but I thought that was peculiar. 

 

FWIW, I do hope I'm wrong in my WAG because it will really piss me off if Dean's miserable two years of living with the  MoC! and then being a demon is ignored or doesn't result in character development for Dean. To me, a return to a snarky,save Sam!Dean would be character regression. Dean murdered human beings. Yes they were horrible disgusting people but in the show, killing humans is a big deal and surely Dean would have some blowback for that and even in his own mind he's gotta deal with that.  And I don't want it to become Dean is in denial bullshit either. Now I don't want him to go to prison or Hell or anything like that but it can't just be left unaddressed and I fear it will. 

 

On another topic, I read spec that maybe the 3 way with the Busty Asian Beauties is actually Gabriel/Trickster because that's his MO.  I could see that.

[SueB]

The vibe of the trailer is definitely HORROR SHOW.  Which is S1.  I think that may be part of the "CNRL-ALT-DEL" to S1 reset.

[catrox14]

rewatching one of Jensen's interviews because JFC I need a life...I know it was posted before just putting it here again for easier access.  Just wondering what you all think about the tail end of the interview.  Not just his words but his....manner. And I know we've talked about it before but just since the trailer has come out I'm wondering if opinions and perspectives have changed of these early interviews.

 

 

He said his episode 3 The Bad Seed

 

It moves the story forward.

Is bit of an expositional episode. It's moving the story along as to what the different factions of the storylines (sounds like a bit of table setting) what characters are doing with a lot of information divulged.

 

But this part leaves me with O_O: /worries

"There are some things that happen to a few characters that may or may not be good for the story". That's kind of an interesting comment from him.

 

Is this the episode wherein Cas gets tortured do you think?

 

He also says to the question about "Is Dean connected to the Darkness because of the Mark" all he says it's a good question. Is there an interconnection from Dean to the Mark. He says there might be a connection.  Some premonitions so to speak. I couldn't discern any of that in the trailer.   The part where is in the dark looking around? Maybe?

 

I suppose Dean's manner could be reflected in Jensen's comments about being done playing the guilt but for Dean's characterization that troubles me. YMMV

Edited September 10, 2015 by catrox14

[rue721]

How could answering the phone with "Ghostbusters!" not be a joke? I mean, I can't imagine an AU where Dean would seriously be answering his phone with an 80s movie reference and it not be at least somewhat of a joke. Or an AU where he seriously describes himself as a "ghostbuster." I mean wut.

 

I do think that Sam and Dean might be separated, though. Hey, maybe Dean's alone on the road like that because he's in Heaven? And maybe Sam is getting tormented/tortured because he's in Hell?

 

You know how Heaven is supposed to be an endless loop of your best memories/moments? What if Hell is an endless look of your worst ones? Maybe Hell for Sam is just an endless loop of memories/moments from being stuck in the Cage?

 

Tbh I hope that Sam saying "it's my fault!" is him thinking he's in the Cage, and referring to the (S5) Apocalypse. And not Sam in the present day, referring to The Darkness getting unleashed.

[catrox14]

 

ow could answering the phone with "Ghostbusters!" not be a joke? I mean, I can't imagine an AU where Dean would seriously be answering his phone with an 80s movie reference and it not be at least somewhat of a joke. Or an AU where he seriously describes himself as a "ghostbuster." I mean wut.

 

 

 

it's not that unusual in an AU world, for something to not exist that exists in our world. In this case, it's possible the movie Ghostbusters does not exist. Just like in The Walking Dead...SPOILER ALERT...SPOILER ALERT( ...this really isn't that much of a spoiler.) SPOILER ALERT "zombies' do not exist. The word doesn't exist. So the characters have no frame of reference to the popular term 'zombies' that we know exists in our universe. That's why they are called Walkers. 

 

So here if Dean is in a AU, the movie Ghostbusters doesn't exist for Dean. He may have come up with that on his own.  Or if even if it does exist he's still using it seriously as his company name.  That's how I interpreted his answering the phone. He's not treating the name as joke IMO even though obviously for us the viewers it's intended as a gag , but not necessarily for Dean.

Edited September 10, 2015 by catrox14

[catrox14]

 

Tbh I hope that Sam saying "it's my fault!" is him thinking he's in the Cage, and referring to the (S5) Apocalypse. And not Sam in the present day, referring to The Darkness getting unleashed.

 

That would be both good and bad.  That would explain shirtless Sam and his tattoo being present again. But we did have like an entire season almost two of Sam's redemption and apologies and torment over his actions.

 

I could see Lucifer suggesting that Sam allow him to possess him to fight the Darkness which would be fine with me as long as Michael wants to possess the former bearer of the Mark named Dean Winchester to help with the battle too. I'll be fucking pissed as hell if they bring back Adam as Michael's vessel to do that.  Heck I'd even be pissed off if they did that with Cain.

[DittyDotDot]

I totally thought it was a joke. They are Ghostbusters and I just assumed he was answering a call from someone who knew what they did. Doesn't mean it's not an alternate reality, though. I just saw it as a possible sign that Dean, now freed of the burden of the Mark, is taking pleasure in life again. But that's probably just me.

 

I didn't get a sense at all that Sam and Dean are separated. Perhaps they are and I wouldn't mind if they did, but based on y'alls chatter I'm beginning to think I didn't see the same video. Hmmm? I'll have to look into that when I get home later today.

[catrox14]

I totally thought it was a joke. They are Ghostbusters and I just assumed he was answering a call from someone who knew what they did. Doesn't mean it's not an alternate reality, though. I just saw it as a possible sign that Dean, now freed of the burden of the Mark, is taking pleasure in life again. But that's probably just me.

 

I didn't get a sense at all that Sam and Dean are separated. Perhaps they are and I wouldn't mind if they did, but based on y'alls chatter I'm beginning to think I didn't see the same video. Hmmm? I'll have to look into that when I get home later today.

 

That's a good point about Dean answering if it was someone he knew. 

 

I'm pretty sure you saw the same video if you saw the Ghostbusters line. It's not been featured anywhere else AFAIK.

 

I love how we all have such differing opinions here. Makes for great discussion

[SueB]

I suppose Dean's manner could be reflected in Jensen's comments about being done playing the guilt but for Dean's characterization that troubles me. YMMV

1) But who would I play with if you weren't here and off doing other things? 

2) What specific moment are you talking about and what is the characterization element that you are troubled about?  And, of course, what is it that's troubling you? I couldn't suss it out.

 

Other thoughts:

- I'll go 99% sure that Sam is praying to God in present day, in the chapel, post-infection of grey veins. And that he's seeking God's help because the Darkness is damn scary and he's feeling bad.  I don't think this is horrible.  I think we'll get the bro-moment at the end of the episode or somewhere in mid-EP2 where Sam and Dean have the "let's just do go and get over the guilt thing" talk.  And I do think it's a specific talk.  So, Sam taking on all this guilt is likely before he and Dean have talked it through IMO.

- Dean in the "grey space" seems like premonition zone to me.

- I think pissed-off Reaper is in EP-2.  I think she's the one who is flying up to the ceiling after attacking Dean in what appears to be a hotel room.

- I'm pretty sure that's the same hotel room Crowley showed up in with the priest suit.

- Did anyone else think that was the Styne jerk with his hand thru the chain?  It had his hair.  Either the promo monkeys just thru that in there or we'll get a flashback to that moment.  I find the potential for a flashback intriguing?  Maybe the Stynes will be someone they work with?

- I believe he's talking to Sam, Cas or someone he knows on the other end when he says "Ghostbusters." 

- I suspect we saw 50% of all the Sam Hell Flashback junk in the preview.  Because it's scary and visually impactful.

[catrox14]

LOL Sue. That whole stupid working thing is going to be a problem sooner or later LOL

 

But as to Dean, again just based on the the little bit I've seen and what Jensen is discussing I came away feeling like there is a ibt of flippancy almost too casual. I made a comment above that he's too non-chalant. Which smacks of being slightly carefree attitude which would be back to the sort of face he puts on for everyone or did back in s1. I don't want that charade again. 

 

Of course if the carefree manner I see is that them giving me demon!Dean again, hell yeah sign me up! But since that isn't going to happen the carefree part seems...I dunno....off.  Yes ,it's a very early, premature assessment but nonetheless that's how it struck me. It seems like there needs to be even MORE edges to Dean now something underneath reflecting what he's been through.

 

Of course, I should know better by now than to doubt Jensen's work.  He proved me a demon!Dean girl (How the hell did that happen!) so maybe it will be layered in a way that I'm not getting from the trailer. 

[Omegamom]

I just find myself looking forward to the new season, which I really wasn't at the end of last season. The Darkness was so out of left field...but now, it looks like they may be having some imaginative fun with it (though not, of course, as imaginative as we are! ;-) ).

I'm actually hoping nothing really spoilery gets released. It's so much fun guessing and analyzing!

Speaking of which: where's Mick Lady???

[catrox14]

I was wondering the same thing about Mick Lady. 

[DittyDotDot]

But as to Dean, again just based on the the little bit I've seen and what Jensen is discussing I came away feeling like there is a ibt of flippancy almost too casual. I made a comment above that he's too non-chalant. Which smacks of being slightly carefree attitude which would be back to the sort of face he puts on for everyone or did back in s1. I don't want that charade again. 

 

But, perhaps it's not a charade? Dean was carrying around this huge burden with the Mark and had come to believe he would have to carry that burden for all eternity. Now it's gone. Perhaps he's just a bit giddy with relief? 

[catrox14]

I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't want Dean to become Han Solo who was kind of who he was in the first part of s1 and I didn't care for him that much. This feels a bit like Han Solo. 

 

I'm all for Dean being free of guilt from releasing the Darkness because that's really not on him. But he did kill Death and he did murder a lot of people. I don't see how he just skates over that. It's fine if he takes a break and I'm sure I'll laugh at his antics but it feels.....regressive.  Again, I'm just going off that brief little bit of Dean we got. Just my intrepretation. Might not turn out to be that way at all. 

[DittyDotDot]

I understand your hesitation, catrox, but what I'm suggesting is that perhaps it's not a regression, but an adjustment. I don't have any doubt that Dean will feel he needs to atone for some things nor do I have any doubt that he will feel like it's on him (and Sam) to try and fix it, just that perhaps it will also feel like a great weight has been lifted that makes him a bit lightheaded at times. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. 

[catrox14]

That intrepretation I can get on board with. Thanks DDD

[7kstar]

I'm not interested at all on who's to BLAME.  Could care less.

 

That said...I get the feeling that Dean and Sam are separated when the darkness hits.  Perhaps in a dream state and don't realize they are alone.  Remember when Sam had the torture device in season 9, he didn't know he was dreaming.  What if it is happening again here too.

 

The dream state could allow both boys to visit other dimensions.

 

I suspect that they will shake things up but my excitement is still low,  But if they can get it together, Perhaps it can be a strong season.  Only time will tell.

[catrox14]

Gods. I hate this show. I hate that I am obsessed with this show.  I have watched that trailer too many times.

 

That scene where whatever is attacking Dean and flies up to ceiling? That looks like Dean might have flung it onto the ceiling because he looks mighty surprised that it happened. Either that or it's in reverse (knowing the CW promo monkeys shenanigans).

[Omegamom]

Har. Now that would be a trip for Dean--finding out he has power, too?!? He'd explode from the self-loathing.

Probably a dream, then. Or else, the Darrrrknessss causes physics to go wonky sometimes.

;-)

[catrox14]

I, for one, would be tickled pink if Dean had a latent power since we never got to see him do anything other than Jedi the Blade back into his hand a whole what two times and one of them wasn't enough to stop himself from being murdered by Metatron.* And he didn't do jackshit with demon powers that EVERY OTHER DEMON used. I mean COME ON, SHOW!

 

*Only in this show can I write a sentence like that and it actually makes sense. LOL.

 

this stupid show is gonna be the end of me.  It's all Dean Winchester's fault. M'fer.

[rue721]

I didn't get a sense at all that Sam and Dean are separated. Perhaps they are and I wouldn't mind if they did, but based on y'alls chatter I'm beginning to think I didn't see the same video. Hmmm? I'll have to look into that when I get home later today.

 

They just didn't seem to be in the same location in a lot of those clips. They each kept being shown alone. Like the clip of Sam praying alone in that church/chapel, and the one of Dean driving alone in the car -- stuff like that. Those clips of Sam being tortured had that cheesy red lighting that usually means that the scene is taking place in Hell, and afaik, there weren't any shots of Dean under that same red lighting. I got the feeling that Sam was alone in Hell or that torture chamber or whatever it was. (Alone meaning without Dean, not literally alone).

 

The scenes that showed them together all seemed to be taken from *very* early on in the season, too, like right at the point that S10 left off. I'm referring to the clips of the Darrrrrrrknesssss engulfing the car, and Sam and Dean hiding out in that gas station/restaurant/something.

 

I think maybe they start out together (right at the point that S10 ended), but the Darrrrrrknesssssssss knocks them out somehow, and they go into some kind of flashback/dream-state/after-life -- and that's when the scenes of Dean out on the road by himself and Sam getting tortured and all that are taking place. Then they come to and...Idk. I bet Crowley is the one who gets them to come to, though. He's always the one to do stuff like that.

 

My biggest questions going into S11 are:  who knew about the Darkness before the lock got broken, and did they unleashed it purposefully? But I have no idea whether that's a question the show is interested in answering, tbh.

 

To me, the biggest spoiler so far has been that picture of a young woman with the Mark of Cain. But tbh that storythread is not that intriguing to me. I'm not that interested in the idea of YET ANOTHER cult/secret society/whatever made up of people obsessed with the Mark of Cain. This would be the fourth or fifth occult secret society introduced on this show within the last few seasons. I'm just kind of over the idea. But hey, I didn't care for the Stynes, either. YMMV.

Edited September 11, 2015 by rue721

[mertensia]

Crowley in a priest's outfit. Ha!

Frankly if I were the Darkness I'd want the Winchesters separated too.

I wonder if God is going to keep resurrecting them to fight against the Darkness?

[catrox14]

New interview with J2 answering reader questions.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/09/11/supernatural-season-11-jensen-ackles-jared-padalecki-fan-questions?hootPostID=9190e77b33afbc0ad958c0a954295fc0

Interesting tidbits for me

Jensen thinks its a s1/s2 dynamic and Jared thinks it's s4/s5.
 

Does this season remind you of any past seasons? —@TVDSweetness
 
ACKLES: It’s a bit of a throwback to maybe season 1 or season 2, when the brothers were fighting less with each other and fighting more for humanity as a team. Because over the years there’s been a flip-flop of Sam being afflicted and Dean doing everything he can to save his brother, and then the next year, Dean makes some terrible choice like the Mark of Cain and then it’s Sam trying to do everything he can to save his brother. We’ve done that now. The brothers have been saved; the Mark is gone. And now they’ve kind of unleashed this unknown entity and they’ve got to team up and pool their resources and figure out how they’re going to deal with it.
PADALECKI: It feels season 4-ish, where we’re fighting against something that’s so much bigger than we are. The boys are always fighting against something so grand and something so beyond themselves that I guess it has a little bit of a lot of seasons, but maybe even season 5. It’s the boys realizing that they can’t do this on their own, and they’re going to have to reach out to get all the help they can get.

 

 

Dean's connection because of the Mark. Well this is good to know that he will have some kind of residual effects because it really should IMO. Of course, I doubt it goes anywhere.

 

 

Will Dean be bonded somehow with the Darkness since he was the bearer of the Mark? —@AcklesUniverse
ACKLES: Because of the time that he spent with the Mark, there is certainly an imprint left on Dean. It certainly pulls on some sort of strings inside him that he doesn’t understand why. He’s not necessarily drawn to it or affected by it but there’s something that resonates with Dean regarding the Mark because he was afflicted with it for so long that it did leave an impression on him. So now there is that kind of connection that only he can have and he can understand, so that is going to be something that he’s going to find himself faced with and struggle with.

 

And this from Jared

 

 

How will Sam’s visions play into this season? —@kristyl_
PADALECKI: Sam and Dean are both struggling with the idea that they don’t always know what’s real and what’s not and they’re both having visions of sorts, or they both think they’re having visions. And Sam’s natural instinct is to back away from it at first because it takes him back to a deep dark place and he doesn’t know what they’re for. I say this with an asterisk because it is supernatural, but Sam’s pretty grounded, pretty rooted in the reality of the situation and he tries to go about it in a scholastic way. When these visions start, he’s less concerned with what’s happening in the visions and more concerned with why he’s getting them and who’s sending them to him. We’ll see Sam doing something we’ve never really seen him do — pray. He doesn’t know who he’s praying to but just asking for some help because he realizes it’s beyond him and it’s beyond Dean.

 

Wait, isn't Sam the one that prayed fairly regularly in s1 through 5. Isn't that the big argument he and Dean had in s2 when Dean first learned that Sam prayed? And that Sam believed in angels?  I'm very confused by that.  Jared is usually pretty accurate with things Sam has done.  Weird.

 

And this one. Lighter episodes. I hope it's the savvy smart humor and not the slapstick stuff.

 

I’m hoping for some lighter, fun episodes this season. Will we see any? —@SPN_Sherry
ACKLES: Oh yeah, after all it is a show that really made its mark at how we balanced the dark episodes with the light episodes and everything in between. I think that juxtaposition has always been a signature of ours. Even though the last couple of seasons have been pretty heavy and pretty dramatic, I think now that we’ve got the brothers back in the saddle so to speak, it is going to lend itself to some more of those moments. In fact, I foresee a lot of T-shirt and bumper sticker sayings [about episode 4].

PADALECKI: I’ll give you a hint: I am on my way to shoot a car-wash scene.

Edited September 11, 2015 by catrox14

[Omegamom]

Y'know, thinking back, I remember more times when *Dean* is shown praying to an unknown higher being. We've been *told* Sam prays, and he's said he believes, multiple times, but I don't remember a scene where he's praying to God (versus calling for Cas or another angel).

[AwesomO4000]

Wait, I thought Sam the one that prayed fairly regularly in s1 through 5. Isn't that the big argument he and Dean had in s2 when Dean first learned that Sam prayed? And that Sam believed in angels.  I'm very confused by that. And Jared is usually pretty accurate with things Sam has done.  Weird.

 

Omegamom beat me to it ; ), and I agree...

 

Sam told us the he prayed, but we never really saw it on screen that I remember. I remember that even Sam's confession at the end of season 8 - which should have been an important moment - happened offscreen. Ironically, despite not really believing like Sam did, Dean is the one we saw praying onscreen to God. And of course Castiel is seen praying. But I'm not remembering a praying scene for Sam - to God at least. He did have a significant scene praying to Castiel, but I suspect that Jared here is talking about God, and I suspect he'll be doing some apologizing to Him as well.

 

However, just like when Dean did it, I'm not sure that I expect God to answer. And when He doesn't, or if something else answers, I wonder if Sam's season 5 "I don't think He cares about us" belief will be further verified and whether Sam won't care that it's "something else" after that.

 

I think that's my suspicion of what's going to happen here... that Sam will have the suspicion that "something else" will be answering, but at that point, he won't care. The "He doesn't know who he's praying to" part is interesting and makes me think that might be the case. I'm afraid it's setting up Sam to get things into worse trouble.

Edited September 11, 2015 by AwesomO4000

[Omegamom]

Aw, jeez. So Sammy gets gulled by dark forces yet again, because he's so damned desperate to FIX IT, no matter what it takes. The one and only time he was that desperate, and didn't get snookered, was season 5. (And season 8, but that got stopped by Dean. And one can argue that he was being led astray yet again, if only that it would have meant his own death.)

Why does he have this damned savior complex? Sam Save-everything-at-all-costs Winchester and Dean Got-Angst? Winchester. Harrumph.

[Aeryn13]

Wow.  *rubs eyes*

 

The first Dean-spoilers I`m seeing for Season 11. Just two months later than the others.

 

We`ll see if it goes anywhere but after the truly atrocious promo matieral that came out this week, namely both the poster advertising "Samnatural" and the trailer showing Dean as a comic relief extra, I will say that this is a tiny but welcome reprieve.  

[catrox14]

Oh I know we saw Dean pray once to God which was notable because he didn't believe in God and considered prayer to be begging.

I was taking Jared's comments as more that Sam was just now embracing/resorting to praying to God in a philosophical sense when we know he did that before vs seeing the physical act itself onscreen so I see what you mean with that distinction.

[AwesomO4000]

Why does he have this damned savior complex? Sam Save-everything-at-all-costs Winchester and Dean Got-Angst? Winchester. Harrumph.

 

It's not just Sam. Castiel does the same thing, too. The show likes to go to the "someone Dean loves messes up trying to 'fix' things and doesn't listen to Dean who knows best" well. As I said earlier, it was/is just Sam's turn this time since Castiel got it in both season 6 and season 8. At least Castiel gets to fix his mess ups eventually even if they are usually bigger. Since Sam's first mess up wasn't quite as large as Cas's, I guess this mess up had to be more epic to be on Castiel's Godstiel / Leviathan scale.

[catrox14]

Aw, jeez. So Sammy gets gulled by dark forces yet again, because he's so damned desperate to FIX IT, no matter what it takes. The one and only time he was that desperate, and didn't get snookered, was season 5. (And season 8, but that got stopped by Dean. And one can argue that he was being led astray yet again, if only that it would have meant his own death.)

Why does he have this damned savior complex? Sam Save-everything-at-all-costs Winchester and Dean Got-Angst? Winchester. Harrumph.

It's kind of weird but I don't know about Sams savior complex. Or maybe I don't know what that really means anymore. He mostly has to fix what he broke.

I think somehow that stupid female version of the Darkness is going to end up in literal bed with Dean. He'll feel drawn to her and he wont know why and it will be like a siren. I sure as Fuck hope I'm wrong.

[Omegamom]

You're probably right about The Darrrrknesssss ending up in bed with Dean.

[Omegamom]

On the other hand, since Sam has a history of falling for Bad Girls, maybe *he'll* end up in bed with The Darrrrknessss.

[Aeryn13]

I don`t think the Darkness will bang either brother. Neither Eve nor Abaddon got played as even a viable sex interest. Nor do I believe Dean especially will be drawn to her other than maybe finding her human form attractive.

 

That said, I probably wouldn`t mind a hook-up. After screwing over the entire world due to codependeny, sex with the darkness seems mild in comparism. At keast that doesn`t fucking harm anyone else.  

[catrox14]

 

That said, I probably wouldn`t mind a hook-up. After screwing over the entire world due to codependeny, sex with the darkness seems mild in comparism. At keast that doesn`t fucking harm anyone else.

 

I'm fine with him hooking up anyone other than The Darrrknnneeessss.  Seriously, I'd rather he fuck Crowley than Amara.  At least he knows what he's getting with Crowley!

 

But seriously TPTB say things like "What does the Darkness want" it's not evil.  And since they made it a female who is a femme fatale type I'm side-eyeing that hard and I thought...what if she just wants to be a Mommy like Eve. I'm terrified of Dean or Sam being a baby!Darkness Daddy.  I mean they did give Dean a monster baby that had to be killed. 

 

That's why I don't want Dean hooking up with anyone other than a 100% fully known to be 100% human.. male or female.  And that he uses condoms that are fortified against any and all potential STDs and pregnancy of any kind, that cannot break or tear or anything. A Supernatural condom, if you will.

Edited September 11, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

From the EW article (speaker is Padalecki):
 

 

and they’re both having visions of sorts, or they both think they’re having visions.

 

I'm pleased that this was stated unambiguously.  Dean is having visions. Sam is having visions. 

[Aeryn13]

While that did please me, I do hope it`s not random shallow stuff like the Busty Asian Beauties from the trailer. That was so cringeworthy.  

[catrox14]

From the EW article (speaker is Padalecki):

 

 

I'm pleased that this was stated unambiguously.  Dean is having visions. Sam is having visions. 

 

Which..btw Jensen. You big liar LOL.  He flat out said they are back to normal.  Visions don't count as normal, Jensen.  LOL.  Cagey little shit. 

[SueB]

Technically, he acknowledged "premonitions"...so, it's "Supernatural normal". And unless the "premonitions" are about a future 4-way...which is ambitious (even for Dean)... I'm thinking the grey-looking moments were more likely the premonitions. 

Edited September 11, 2015 by SueB

[catrox14]

Technically, he acknowledged "premonitions"...so, it's "Supernatural normal". And unless the "premonitions" are about a future 4-way...which is ambitious (even for Dean)... I'm thinking the grey-looking moments were more likely the premonitions. 

 

Technicality! He's spent more time saying neither one is burdened with other things...LOL semantics I say! (not for you but for him). He a bit of troll you have to admit.

 

Now I think even moreso that his shocked reaction at the con when Jared talked about the vessel thing that Jared was spoiling something big and he knew and was like "NOPE" I'm not even gonna touch that.