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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
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Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

 And why would he run to Jensen afterwards to tell Jensen all about the newest Sam storyline? To me that would serve no purpose, least of all for Jensen. 

1) Because they are partners in SPN on everything. They ensure they have the same salary, they back each other up on and off-screen constantly, etc...

2) Because he's his one if not THE best friend he has. They often refer to each other as brothers.

3) Because they spend nearly 10-14 hrs a day together 6 days a week, with a few breaks, between Jul and Apr.

4) Because something good OR bad for Jared matters to Jensen and Jared knows this.And if it's a "meh", then it's not a big storyline but he probably would tell him about it anyway.Because that's how they roll. 

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)

To me that has nothing to do with storylines for their respective characters. Just because Dean seems to only have Sam on his brain doesn`t mean Jensen has to. He plays Dean. I highly doubt that Jared took a particular interest in the Mark of Cain storyline since it pertained to Dean. Why would he really? 

 

Their working relationship is one thing but that doesn`t mean they have to tell the other stuff they not only don`t need to know at all but probably really are not interested in.

When I say I think Jared had a meeting and Jensen didn`t, I don`t think Jared would slight Jensen by not telling him all about what the writers have planned for Sam. Quite the opposite, it would seem like bragging and mocking to do so. For me that would be an asshole move. So not doing it is actually...not being an asshole, in my mind. 

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SueB

SueB

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To me that has nothing to do with storylines for their respective characters. Just because Dean seems to only have Sam on his brain doesn`t mean Jensen has to. He plays Dean. I highly doubt that Jared took a particular interest in the Mark of Cain storyline since it pertained to Dean. Why would he really? 

 

Their working relationship is one thing but that doesn`t mean they have to tell the other stuff they not only don`t need to know at all but probably really are not interested in.

When I say I think Jared had a meeting and Jensen didn`t, I don`t think Jared would slight Jensen by not telling him all about what the writers have planned for Sam. Quite the opposite, it would seem like bragging and mocking to do so. For me that would be an asshole move. So not doing it is actually...not being an asshole, in my mind. 

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.  From Social Media, con coverage, and personal observation - these guys are tight and keep no secrets.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

 

From Social Media, con coverage, and personal observation - these guys are tight and keep no secrets.

 

Which is why I think they wouldn`t tell. People I`m tight with, I don`t purposefully run to and rub it in their faces that I got something and they didn`t and all the details of it. And I appreciate the same courtesy in return. This is not secret-keeping to me but friendship. 

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I can see a case for Jared possibly not going to Jensen especially if it's going to be a fairly big arc for Sam,given that Jensen has been disappointed twice with the Purgatory SL and Demon Dean. Maybe Jensen has been more upset about that than he tells publicly.

And I certainly don't mean that Jensen would be upset about Jared having an action arc but that jared would be sensitive to a out it and maybe not bring it up until Jensen gets to it in the script. Just my ponderance. Who knows.

The more I think about the more I'm leaning to Jensen's reaction was because jared spoiled a big thing. And he was acting like he didn't know to keep the heat off himself.

Edited by catrox14
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Wynne88

Wynne88

I don't know Jared at all, but from watching the videos from conventions and reading interviews, two things have always struck me:

- He isn't good at keeping secrets for any length of time, which is why we get more spoilers from him than from Jensen or anybody else (even though some of them turn out to be false).  He's the last guy I would call into a meeting and lay out the direction of the season if I didn't want the world to know it.

- He is extremely empathetic,  especially as he's gotten older.  Somebody like that isn't going to let his best friend get blind-sided by something that's going to make him unhappy.  I can think of multiple ways he could bring it up without gloating that he has the better story-line, especially since I've never seen anything that would indicate that either one of the guys believes that the way to get ahead is to score one on the other guy.  

 

Just my views, obviously.

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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

Precisely.  And blurting it out at a convention if he WAS concerned? Nope.

 

Back to the recent photos:

- So the blond guy is a named Aaron Hill (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1341364/), he's not a Canadian actor. They are bringing this guy all the way up from LA for this role.  And he's been in a lot of stuff.  That says to me it's a fairly sizable roll in the season premier.  But not necessarily a recurring role and he does one-shots in a lot.  I think the sheriff is your standard Candian actor (versus fly in from LA).

- And then there's this bit

 

But there’s a new source of trouble for Crowley, who is “very much trying to figure out how he is going to navigate this new world where The Darkness threatens just about everything,” Carver previews.

(emphasis added)

 

IMO they can't really maintain a world-wide crisis for a long time, and we know they are personifying The Darkness as Amara.... so, I'm wondering if it makes a big splash at the start and then settles down for the long haul.  Like it's disoriented at first and then figures it out. 

They confirmed that it affects Heaven and Hell and that THEY are aware but they haven't come out and said if the rest of the planet has a clue that something not-good is happening.  I'm going to guess "no" (as much as I want the answer to be "yes") because that's complicated from a storytelling perspective. It'll be some odd one-off phenomenon that is forgotten.  As Carver said in that interview the other day, keeping it out of the public seems to be an essential contrivance they often use.   

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

The show Angel spoilers ahead for a comparison to the Darkness

 

I really really really really really don't want them to capture Amara, bring her back to the bunker and teach her how to cope in today's world if she won't give up her fight for whatever ...Unless they are just kidding and it's really Amy Acker back as Illyria..and then YAAAAS.

 

ETA: Apologies to everyone I inadvertently confused.

Edited by catrox14
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I was talking about the show in comparison with the Darkness .

 

Geez, I'm very sorry.  Wow.  Wasn't trying to upset anyone. I'll be much better in the future.

Edited by catrox14
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7kstar

7kstar

I remember Jensen saying at a past convention that he doesn't like to read as far into a script as Jared does. He rather take it as it comes so he doesn't  know anything Dean doesn't know yet, which made a ton of sense to me.

This makes sense for acting.  If you know too far advance you can't stay in the moment and start playing something that Dean wouldn't know yet.  Jensen and Jared's acting styles are not the same.  They have some similar methods but they also approach it differently.  Which is why Kim Manners told Jensen he would be directing one day. 

 

I'm trying to have light expectations, so perhaps I will enjoy it.  I don't think the darkness will mount to much because they have a pattern and so far they aren't willing to break it.

 

I haven't seen the part where Jensen was surprised about Jared's answer...but Jared is like the kid that can't keep a secret.  Jensen will toy with you more as it entertains him.  But he has slipped, remember "It's a real eye opener." 

 

Catrox14, I understood you were talking about the show "Angel" but I also teach middle school...My point...there are young people out there that can't create a clear thought even if they tried.  We are all human, and I know we sometimes don't see the errors of our writing, hence the reason you get someone to edit your fanfiction before you post.  But I can tell you, I use to refuse to post my thoughts because I knew I wouldn't be understood.  People got angry of something they thought I said, but it wasn't what I meant or tried to say.

 

I've improved in my writing but I hate seeing something that looks like we are attacking someone.  Sorry but the teacher in me...can't leave it alone.  We've been supportive of everyone, and I want to see that continue because that is why I like coming to this board.  :)

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

Much as I would like the Darkness, to be something, I'm just so tired of the show making Sam the screw up. So of course the spoilers hint at bodies everywhere... because I guess it's just not Supernatural anymore unless Sam (or Castiel) do something Dean doesn't want them to do and warns them not to do,  thereby causing mass casualties. Since Cas got that last one - oops make that two - guess it was Sam's turn again.

 

I take it back... I kinda wish the Darkness never happened and/or that it was all a big nightmare that Sam had that makes him change his mind. And I don't care if it doesn't make sense or how they did it. Just any way to make it not happen or at least go away as quickly as possible will make me - well not happy, because Carver assured I wouldn't be once it was clear that Sam was getting the "reckless 'oh, come on what could possible happen? oops, I started the apocalypse' Again.'" edit on about 5 episodes from the end of the season last year. And damn him for having some good episodes there too, but just ...

 

And I just know those potential dreams or "visions" or whatever Sam might be having are going to be some evil thing pretending to be good and Sam will be duped (again) while Dean is skeptical and right, but no one will listen to him... and that my only hope is that those spoilers are wrong. *Le sigh*

 

*Takes a deep breath and backs away from the thread*

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Mick Lady

Mick Lady

I was talking about the show in comparison with the Darkness .

 

Geez, I'm very sorry.  Wow.  Wasn't trying to upset anyone. I'll be much better in the future.

 

No worries, I got it right away and now I'm off to drive Mick crazy.

 

Oh and Awesom? These visions bug me too. I'm not a Samgirl, but come on guys!

 

 

"And I just know those potential dreams or "visions" or whatever Sam might be having are going to be some evil thing pretending to be good and Sam will be duped (again) while Dean is skeptical and right, but no one will listen to him... and that my only hope is that those spoilers are wrong. *Le sigh*"

 

 

Oh I so agree with this sister!

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rue721

rue721

The more I think about the more I'm leaning to Jensen's reaction was because jared spoiled a big thing. And he was acting like he didn't know to keep the heat off himself.

 

I agree, that's what I think happened.

 

Not because TPTB had a special meeting with Jared only. And if they did, it would have been unusual and Jared would have spilled everything to Jensen straight away.  And vice-a-versa.  They are really a tight team off screen.  I think they realized that was the smart way to go in S1 and they've stuck like that since.  It's probably why the show has never had BTS drama. 

 

I have no doubt that TPTB don't ALWAYS have joint meetings with both of them there at the same time. Not because anyone's trying to be all ~secretive~, but because they're two different employees and not every meeting needs to be a group meeting. For example, whenever Jensen is directing an episode, he probably needs to talk to the producers about stuff that Jared has no reason to care about or be involved in -- I would think they don't go to all those meetings with TPTB together, or give each other some kind of exhaustive debriefing afterward. Because why would they? It's just not that serious. Both of them have better things to do with their time, I would think.

 

If TPTB had "welcome back to the production/welcome to S11!" meetings with each of them, which I think is likely, how they outlined Sam's arc to JP and how they outlined Dean's arc to JA probably referenced different events or emphasized different stuff, and how JP and JA interpreted/remembered what was said was probably also different because they're different people. Maybe they discussed the coming season afterward or maybe they don't like to talk shop when they're just hanging out -- who knows. Regardless, I don't think that it's likely that there's a 100% overlap in their knowledge of what's going to happen in the coming season, because different people hear and pay attention to and remember different stuff.

 

It sounds to me like you'd see Jared remembering/hearing about some plot tidbit that Jensen maybe didn't as some sort of betrayal or only possible if they weren't close friends off-set? I don't understand why. That seems like a completely normal thing to happen. Maybe I'm misinterpreting?

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Omegamom

Omegamom

About the new pics from S11E01:

A small grump.

Or actually a BIG one.

There's Sam, with gun and black eye, standing in a room full of dead people sprawled on furniture. (Cute new hairstyle, Sammy, I likey.)

::sound of needle scratching across a record::

DEAD people?!?

Um. Didn't Dean Winchester KILL Death?!?

You mean to tell me one of the two most cosmic of all cosmic forces has been killed, and people still die?!?

Bah. Humbug.

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Wynterwolf

Wynterwolf

::sound of needle scratching across a record::

DEAD people?!?

Um. Didn't Dean Winchester KILL Death?!?

You mean to tell me one of the two most cosmic of all cosmic forces has been killed, and people still die?!?

Bah. Humbug.

 

Hee!  (Thank you, that made me giggle so hard.  I think this whole show is one big needle-scratch, but I still love it.)  Maybe Death had more to do with where people went after they died?  So maybe now Dead People just... disappear, or can maybe get in where they don't belong, like evil people getting into Heaven, and good people getting unjustly stuck in Hell if a (now rogue) Reaper decides they don't like you... rather than going to their just deserts?  

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

 

There's Sam, with gun and black eye, standing in a room full of dead people sprawled on furniture. (Cute new hairstyle, Sammy, I likey.)

 

 

My musings:

 

I bitched about Sam's hair when we saw the first BTS stuff from s11. How the hell did Sam grow his hair out  like 1/2 inch to an inch with layers?  This is supposed to pick up LITERALLY ( and I do mean LITERALLY) as in NO time jump after the end of 10.23 when Sam still had his Prince Valiant-adjacent hair cut. Jensen seemed to confirm that was the case because he said he had to wear the same heavy clothes they had on at the end of 10.23 and it was miserably hot.  Sam still has the same wounds from when Dean hit him.

 

So this either this is some really bad hair continuity (which they have never been that off with Sam's hair) or it's not picking up right after. 

 

As to the dead people, maybe they are undead and it's just a matter of time before they reanimate. Or they are demons or angels and maybe Death's death doesn't stop them from dying but then I don't really know...

 

OR  Crowley became the new Death and Mark is the troll we always thought he was.

 

OR if it really picks up right after despite Sam's bad hair continuity, then maybe they were already dead before Death died and only people that died right after Death died would not die.

 

OR That wasn't really Death that Dean killed. 

 

 

LOL sentences I never thought I'd say. LOL

Edited by catrox14
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Omegamom

Omegamom

You are a font of creative explanation, catrox14!

Crowley had better not be the new Death.

But, damn, aside from that rumor that there's an angry Reaper after the boys because of Death's death, they haven't spilled a word. They'll probably drop that storyline too...

But Mark definitely was trolling all summer long, because we now *know* Crowley is still alive.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

You know, technically Mark might not actually be lying. Crowley is only the meatsuit right? Fergus is the demon, the actual King of Hell.

 

So maybe Rowena's hex changed his physical state.  Like how Dean was his own demon in his own meatsuit, maybe this made it so Crowley and Fergus are now fused as one physical entity that cannot be separated as in he can't smoke out and get another meatsuit.  So maybe Crowley is really dead and it's Fergus from now on.

 

Maybe that ties into the notions of "duality" in Crowley that Mark spoke of . 

Edited by catrox14
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Omegamom

Omegamom

I get the impression that, aside from super-demons like Lilith, Azazel, and a few others, demons just take a name they like and keep it. Thus, Ruby, Meg, Alastair, etc., were still known as Ruby, Meg, Alastair, etc., after they switched meat suits. Though maybe that was true for Lilith and Azazel, too--they just picked a name and I'm thinking of them as different because the names they chose and stuck with happened so very very long ago that those names are thousands of years old.

Hmmmm.

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

My musings:

 

I bitched about Sam's hair when we saw the first BTS stuff from s11. How the hell did Sam grow his hair out  like 1/2 inch to an inch with layers?  This is supposed to pick up LITERALLY ( and I do mean LITERALLY) as in NO time jump after the end of 10.23 when Sam still had his Prince Valiant-adjacent hair cut.

 

The Darkness did it? It may be evil/immoral/whatever, but maybe even it was like "oh, I just can't with this. It used to be better. Here just a little tweak as I roll over Baby. No one will notice much." I haven't seen the photos yet, but it couldn't be worse than Buffy's post dead hair change. Apparently when you die, your hair grows a couple of inches and loses its layers.*

 

 

*Though truthfully I think this was mostly due to a bad wardrobe choice, maybe giving "Buffy" a bad wig. Sarah was also playing Buffybot in the episode and the hair there was fine. It was an odd choice, because there was no way, imo, viewers were going to confuse Buffybot with Buffy in this episode. Buffy was already burdened with an awful dress that she was buried in (ugh what "friends" buried her in that) but she was also smudged with dirt (digging out of your grave will do that to you), and the characters behave completely differently - especially this episode (real Buffy was shell-shocked, Buffybot was her usual overly cheerful self) - so there wasn't going to be any confusion.

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catrox14

catrox14

 

The Darkness did it? It may be evil/immoral/whatever, but maybe even it was like "oh, I just can't with this. It used to be better. Here just a little tweak as I roll over Baby. No one will notice much." I haven't seen the photos yet, but it couldn't be worse than Buffy's post dead hair change. Apparently when you die, your hair grows a couple of inches and loses its layers.

 

LOOOL seriously. I legit guffaw'd.  That's as good an explanation as any. 

 

Oh his hair looks fantastic, like back to s9 which I generally liked.  Not as long as s8 but not as Prince Valiant-y as s10.  But I have to question why she didn't grow Dean's hair back out to his awesome demon!Dean hairstyle. I already hate her for not doing that :(.

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

 

From that article:

 

The Winchesters will have a lot more on their minds, as Jensen - who will also be directing an episode early in season eleven - told us that they may not know how much time has passed since last season's finale. "The way it's going to seem is a direct pickup," he teased. "But then there becomes some questions of, how long were we out? Was it just a few minutes or was it a lot longer? I'll be interested to see how that plays out."

 

 

So it may not be immediately after the Darkness is released.

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catrox14

catrox14

http://tvline.com/2015/07/14/supernatural-season-11-spoilers-impala-episode-flashbacks/

 

“in a lot of different ways and on a lot of different levels.”

But more imminently, since the season opener picks up right where the finale left off, the brothers must deal with the release of The Darkness and “figure out what that is, how far it reaches and how to fix it,” star Jensen Ackles explained.

 

 

 

One time they are saying it's picking up right after which implies no time jump at all and then another time they are but "how long after"? How long would it take for Sam's hair to grow an inch LOL?

 

Are the boys going to be in some kind of suspended animation or unconscious for weeks?  Is that why Sam's hair is longer? But Dean's isn't? 

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

Almost a week passed between those interviews.  Maybe Jensen learned something in the meantime?  

 

Besides, he said, "The way it's going to seem is a direct pickup".  Maybe the premiere starts immediately after the Darkness is released, then comes the time jump because the boys have been knocked out or whatever.

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rue721

rue721

I really hope that they get knocked out, and when they wake up, Sam has much better hair. Lends credence to AwesomO's theory that The Darkness COULDN'T EVEN with the Prince Valiant cut he had going on in S10. :P

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7kstar

7kstar

What if the boys don't wake up together?  Dean cuts his hair because he can't stand the look and he finds sleeping beauty, and it starts to rain.  So what happens next.  Your up...lol.

 

I really think they are keeping the information so that fans won't have expectations and maybe will like what they do.  When your all pumped waiting to see something like we were about Demon Dean for instance and they are going to drop it in a few eps, it makes more sense to keep you in the dark.  Now you can't complain and maybe...sometimes a small maybe...You'll like it. 

 

I know I did like how they introduced Cass.  I think the biggest reason it worked was because no one saw it coming.  Like?  or just driving you insane?  :)

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catrox14

catrox14

 

Demon Dean for instance and they are going to drop it in a few eps, it makes more sense to keep you in the dark.

 

Oh. My. Gods. What if they are going truly meta on us. Keeping us in the Dark so that we wake in the Darkness right along with the boys?

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SueB

SueB

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Dabb mentioned death will continue.  Before Luci summoned him in Abandon all Hope, he was in someplace else ... and death itself didn't stop.

 

Sam's hair IS so much better.  *sigh* I don't care if it puts me in the shallow end of the pool.  Sometimes that's a very comfy place to be.

 

I think the photos WERE the goodie.  I thought we might get the poster (they released Arrow on Wednesday) but no joy. 

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Oh gods. That Arrow poster of Diggle.  I AM SO ANGRY. His helmet is SOOOO STUPID. 

 

Why are the Promo Monkeys at CW SO BAD? I mean they use pictures from 3 seasons ago for the boys.  Look they are older and arguably hotter than ever.  WHY DO THEY DO THAT?

 

Ugh.

 

Dabb mentioned death will continue.  Before Luci summoned him in Abandon all Hope, he was in someplace else ... and death itself didn't stop.

 

See this is where I am so annoyed at them killing Death. (if he's really dead)

 

Deathy was not dead, he was just locked away. His power wasn't diminished during that time. And I always thought reapers were Death's employees meaning he worked through them. I don't  see how reapers can even work without Death. 

 

Death IS death. None of this makes any sense to me. Sigh.

Edited by catrox14
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

They're turning him into a high-level bureaucrat, dammit! And there is so much fun stuff to play with if death stops happening...

 

Exactly! But you know who would want that bureaucratic nonsense .....Metatron. 

Edited by catrox14
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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

How could Metatron do any of that, though?  He has the demon tablet, but he lost his grace, right?  Wasn't it the angel tablet that gave him any sort of special powers?  Castiel destroyed the tablet, though, so Metatron shouldn't be able to do much of anything.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

 

Oh gods. That Arrow poster of Diggle.  I AM SO ANGRY. His helmet is SOOOO STUPID.

 

I think the disguise is genius. Now if he is seen doing something unlawful, people will swear on their lives it was Magneto. 

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)

I haven't seen said poster yet, but I think it's about time someone on that show had an actual disguise. ;)

 

As to this show: I'm still betting Crowley becomes Death, so they don't have to actually deal with Death not existing.

Edited by DittyDotDot
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

How could Metatron do any of that, though?  He has the demon tablet, but he lost his grace, right?  Wasn't it the angel tablet that gave him any sort of special powers?  Castiel destroyed the tablet, though, so Metatron shouldn't be able to do much of anything.

Metatron only cares about his own power and being "God". He has no reason to take the demon tablet other than to use it to his advantage. He would have no qualms with killing another angel and taking their grace and powering back up. He could find a way to use the demon tablet to his advantage by enlisting demons to help him and for the right price they would. There could have been a spell in the demon tablet that he could use to conjure an illusion of Death.

Edited by catrox14
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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

Metatron only cares about his own power and being "God". He has no reason to take the demon tablet other than to use it to his advantage. 

 

Obviously.

 

He would have no qualms with killing another angel and taking their grace and powering back up. 

 

Are any angels left on earth?  I thought they had all returned to Heaven by now.  Besides, would that grace burn up just like Cas' borrowed grace did?

 

He could find a way to use the demon tablet to his advantage by enlisting demons to help him and for the right price they would. 

 

 

 

 

Maybe.  If they don't mind the wrath of Crowley.

 

There could have been a spell in the demon tablet that he could use to conjure an illusion of Death.

 

 

Wait -- what?  Nothing on the show has ever hinted at such a thing.  The demon tablet has always been about killing demons, closing the gates of Hell, etc.  Why would the demon tablet contain a spell like that?

 

Not to mention, in order to do such a thing, Metatron would have to know where Dean was and what he was up to.  And how could he conjure an illusion of Death with a tangible scythe for Dean to use against it?

 

Sorry, I just don't understand how Metatron can be responsible for what happened.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

I think at this point actual Death was killed and that was what Carver was writing for the episode. Same as Cain was actually killed in ep 14 and Gabriel was actually killed by Lucifer in Season 5.

 

Which is not to say any of these deaths won`t be retconned later. And I don`t mean that the characters could be resurrected, I mean actually retconned into "psych, it wasn`t really them" or "they weren`t really dead". Depending on if a certain writers thinks it would be a "kewl" idea for their episode. Chief among the suspects would be the Nepotism Duo for me.

 

Death is a particular danger if the writers find they have written themselves into a corner or don`t know how to (or are unwilling to) write consequences of Death`s demise. Canon is but a flimsy belief of today that might be gone tomorrow.    

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