Spoilers With Speculation

[7kstar]

Cain coming back doesn't mean he has the mark.  Right now I would believe it is gone with the Darkness being freed.  But this show loves to do something for naught.  But my wishing for Cain coming back isn't due for him to take the mark back.  I suspect the mark will be dropped and never mentioned again.

 

I think the reason the boys don't talk or think about Mary, other than the writers never bring her up, is that she is gone.  They don't know a way to bring her back and neither has a go to Mom for stuff because she's been missing so long.

 

John is more recent, so the ache, especially for Dean is bigger.  Plus they had the hero worship that John was the better hunter.

 

I also see John as someone that loved his boys.  He was a terrible father at times, sure.  But even Dean in season 6 found out how difficult it was to balance hunting and keeping his family safe.  Had John found out about the supernatural in a gradual way he might not have been so isolated.  But he was thrown into it, so he reacted by shutting out anyone and everyone that might harm his boys.  Great way to live...no but then again none of them have a great way to live.

 

But it might be interesting if God brought back Mary and John.  I do think that Dean would try to be all tough and pretend that all is well to protect his mom.  But I think her being a mom, she would figure it out.  That is when it would get interesting.  Because although Dean can tune Sam out...I doubt he could do the same with Mary.

 

But I doubt that John, Mary will be back because that would mean mining the history of this show, and they don't seem to do that.

[catrox14]

 

I'd be sorely disappointed if Cain suddenly appeared with the Mark. I'd love to see Cain return, but there are plenty of other ways to do that with this show: dreams, alternate realities, visions, flashbacks...

 

Cain never lost the Mark in the first place. It went into remission until he killed the demons and got the taste again. He also planned to find Dean to get the Blade again, which raises the question in my mind as to why he came back for the Blade at all.  He didn't really need the Blade to keep killing his poison issue. It's only real purpose is to kill other more powerful demons. He wasn't letting Dean kill him until Dean got the literal upper hand.

 

They could bring him back those ways most certainly, but it does stick in my craw that we never really got true confirmation that Cain is really most sincerely dead. Not like other charactersIt sits in my craw that we never saw Cain's cold dead body.  That's pretty strange for this show to not show the actual death or the body after or at least the confirmation of a major character. Cain might have been in only two episode but his presence and his importance to the mythology IMO makes him important enough to have an onscreen death.  I can't recall many if any deaths of a character even without the status of Cain that didn't get an onscreen death or onscreen confirmation of said death in some way be it a hunter's funeral, ghost, smoke from a demon Ipecac'd out by Sam's hand etc.

 

I MUST KNOW what Cain knew about the Darkness and if he knew why did he let himself be killed by Dean. Unless he'd been so corrupted that his death would ensure the Darkness released. That would be kind of interesting and I could buy into Cain's actual true death for that reason. But if he spent thousands of years with the Mark and never knew he was the Key or Lock or whatever, WHY didn't he know that? Hmmmmm considering he got it from Lucifer.

[Wynne88]

If Cain never lost the Mark in the first place, and he isn't dead, could the darkness have been released? I would have thought he would continue to serve as a lock for it, but the whole thing kind of confused me.

[Demented Daisy]

Dean never knew he was the lock/key.  I don't have any problem with Lucifer not telling Cain about the Darkness.  

 

Likewise, the Darkness was unleashed, so Cain must be dead.  That's confirmation enough for me.  

 

I think that when they decided to kill Cain, they kept it opened ended so they could potentially bring him back.  But, I suspect, that was before they came up with the idea for the Darkness.  Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't occur to them that unleashing the Darkness proves that Cain is dead.  

 

Now, if they wanted to, they could retcon the whole thing by saying the Blade destroyed the Mark instead of killing Cain.  Very Sword of Gryffindor and horcrux, that.  Or Voldemort Avada Kedavra-ing Harry.  It knocked Harry out but people believed that he was dead.  So, theoretically, Dean walked away thinking Cain was dead when he was merely unconscious after the Mark was destroyed.

 

But that's what I thought they were going to do in the first place.  *shrug*

[catrox14]

If Cain never lost the Mark in the first place, and he isn't dead, could the darkness have been released? I would have thought he would continue to serve as a lock for it, but the whole thing kind of confused me.

 

 

The whole thing is really confusing to me.  I have so MANY more questions.

 

The Case for Cain being dead is strong if Cain no longer had the Mark when he gave it to Dean.  I don't think it was entirely clear until Executioner's Song when we saw it activated again when he touched the First Blade. So he was never free of the Mark it just went into remission.

 

The First Blade supposedly would be the only thing that could kill him but what I don't understand is WHY if the Mark is still on him, that still doesn't make sense.  Like I understand it's the that's just the way it works thing but there needs to be more explanation.

 

The Mark is the thing that forces you to remain alive or you turn into a demon again, at least in Dean's case. 

Since Cain was already a demon, why would the First Blade be able to kill him even with it coupled with Dean and the Mark. And there was no typical demon smoking out or any kind of light. All we heard was the sound of thunder which okay that could have been the sign of his death but that's kind of weak IMO.

 

Since Rowena lifted the Curse from Dean would it have lifted the Curse from any other bearer of the Mark be the bearer dead or alive? Is there a rule that said that the Mark only worked on a living/undead entity?  Or was the Curse only lifted from Dean?

 

7kstar, if they never mention the Mark again I will lose my shit. I don't see it can be avoided or put to the wayside when the entire reason the Darkness is out is because of the Mark's existence as the 'Lock and Key" ("I would imagine")  I will never not be able to think of that line from French Mistake when thinking of locks and keys now. I'm so sorry.

Edited August 29, 2015 by catrox14

[rue721]

I think either the MoC or The Darrrrrrrrrknessss can be a powerful entity "living" in the world -- I don't think they can both be around at once in any kind of meaningful way. It seemed like as soon as the MoC got zapped from Dean, the Darkness was out. So the MoC is just a useless broken lock now, I think. Regardless of who (if anyone) is still wearing it.

 

Tbh, I think that they've moved on from the Mark of Cain storyline, and there's not really any place on the show for Cain anymore. He could have been fascinating and I think it's too bad that they didn't really use the potential of the character at all, but I think it's sort of "crying over spilled milk" to worry about what could have come of that character or storyline now.

 

But it might be interesting if God brought back Mary and John.  I do think that Dean would try to be all tough and pretend that all is well to protect his mom.  But I think her being a mom, she would figure it out.  That is when it would get interesting.  Because although Dean can tune Sam out...I doubt he could do the same with Mary.

 

But I doubt that John, Mary will be back because that would mean mining the history of this show, and they don't seem to do that.

 

Mary's their mom, but she doesn't know them at all.  And it's not like she would have decades' worth of life experience more than they do, like most parents have, because she died when she was what -- in her late twenties? So I doubt she would be able to read them especially well, though who knows.

 

BUT! I would love it if they brought her back, regardless! It would be cool for the show to bring in a female character like that who wouldn't be a love interest and would have a legitimate, interesting history/relationship with the leads. Plus, I just really liked young!Mary in those flashback episodes -- AG did a great job playing her imo, her action scenes were different from the guys' and I enjoyed the variety, and I thought the show did a really good job making her into her own character while somehow making it genuinely believable that she was related to the guys.

 

But you're probably right, 7kstar -- I doubt that TPTB would ever mine the show's history like that. Oh well! That makes me think, though -- would any of you guys want to write a fanfic for the idea?! Or have you already?

[7kstar]

Mary's their mom, but she doesn't know them at all.  And it's not like she would have decades' worth of life experience more than they do, like most parents have, because she died when she was what -- in her late twenties? So I doubt she would be able to read them especially well, though who knows.

 

BUT! I would love it if they brought her back, regardless! It would be cool for the show to bring in a female character like that who wouldn't be a love interest and would have a legitimate, interesting history/relationship with the leads. Plus, I just really liked young!Mary in those flashback episodes -- AG did a great job playing her imo, her action scenes were different from the guys' and I enjoyed the variety, and I thought the show did a really good job making her into her own character while somehow making it genuinely believable that she was related to the guys.

 

But you're probably right, 7kstar -- I doubt that TPTB would ever mine the show's history like that. Oh well! That makes me think, though -- would any of you guys want to write a fanfic for the idea?! Or have you already?

I know Mary doesn't know Sam at all, Dean only as a 4 year old.  But those young years have a very strong connection.  I think with Sam gaining up on Dean by talking to his Mom...Dean would find himself in a very different space.  If they can't get Samantha Smith, I would be fine with the younger Mom too.  I liked both actresses that have played Mary.  Plus it could be cool seeing Mary embrace her hunting side that she tried to deny. 

 

As far as fanfic, it is a plot bunny but I need to get my pain levels down so I can focus on writing.  Right now I'm overwhelmed with school.  It's why I really don't think I'll be able to teach much longer.  I'm hoping for 5 more as money wise I need to do so...but each year is getting harder and harder.  I'm trying to swim to get movement so that the arthritis isn't so bad, but teaching is very stressful, and I can't complain.  This year so far the kids are great.  My most challenging issue will be the Down Syndrome child as she is really low and scared a regular child when she hugged her too hard.  But she is responding to my firm no. 

 

I wish we could see Dean teaching a real classroom, not PE, but like English or math...that might be fun.  Evil I know.  :)

[catrox14]

I don't see how they can ignore the show's history if they are trying to do a soft reboot back to the bros only theme.

 

I will be sorely disappointed if they don't mine their history more in the future with Mary and John.

 

And they did do more more with showing pictures of Mary and John with Dean and Sam in several episodes in s10. For example, Soul Survivor included dialogue about Mary and John along with Sam and Dean looking at pictures of them during the episode. Songs were written for Fan Fiction about Mary and John.  Mary and Dean's picture was used again in the Prisoner and Brother's Keeper.  Those nuggets were there on purpose to drag Dean back from the ledge but I hope it's also setting up more for the future.  

Edited August 29, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

I'd love John AND Mary back.  So much ground could be covered.

 

As I was reading the articles and listening to them talk about Amara, I kept thinking of Illyria from Angel (of the Buffy-verse).  Gorgeous, deadly, destructive, both amoral and immoral at the same time, confused by humanity.  That would work I think. 

[companionenvy]

I've always thought that it would have been great if Mary had been brought back rather than Samuel in season 6. Crowley could have been holding a (fake) promise to restore Sam's soul over her. It would have been so much more dramatically resonant, especially with the "mother" plotline that season. 

[SueB]

I've always thought that it would have been great if Mary had been brought back rather than Samuel in season 6. Crowley could have been holding a (fake) promise to restore Sam's soul over her. It would have been so much more dramatically resonant, especially with the "mother" plotline that season.

THAT would have been EPIC.

New EW interview. Nothing specific. http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/29/supernatural-jensen-ackles-season-11-darkness

Edited August 30, 2015 by SueB

[catrox14]

I'd love John AND Mary back.  So much ground could be covered.

 

As I was reading the articles and listening to them talk about Amara, I kept thinking of Illyria from Angel (of the Buffy-verse).  Gorgeous, deadly, destructive, both amoral and immoral at the same time, confused by humanity.  That would work I think. 

 

Yup that's exactly what I've been saying. I'm just bummed it's not Amy Acker :(.  Can we get Knox just so someone can kill him all over again? I'd be cool with that.

[catrox14]

Info coming out of VanCon re Sam's tattoo

 

Winchester Bros ‏@WinchesterBros 2m2 minutes ago

Fan asks about Sam's tattoo and @jarpad says we will see it in a flashback. #VanCon

[AwesomO4000]

Weird that Sam wouldn't have gotten it redone though, because demons are still around and there's still a possession threat (And especially now that Crowley is definitely not a fan anymore after Sam tried to kill him.) If they are going with his skin is still scarred on that side from the burn, he could get it on the other side... or somewhere an enemy will be less likely to find it... as on, say, a nice butt cheek. They wouldn't have to show it then but just mention a throwaway "don't worry, I'm still covered" line. Because going around not tattooed seems rather reckless of either if them to me.

[catrox14]

Someone did ask that and Jared answered by saying he's Sam Fucking Winchester LOL(referring to the s10 gag reel).  But yeah he never really answered it.

I wonder if Dean having been an actual demon would change whether he can be possessed if he didn't have the tattoo.

 

I feel like they've left Sam untattoed for reasons...LOL

Edited August 30, 2015 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

Well, seeing it in a flashback suggests to me that he did replace it. I guess it depends on how far back they're flashing, though. 

[catrox14]

So I saw this on Tumblr , which I think is referencing the panel?

 

https://twitter.com/JennLaFleur/status/638119305905737728

They’ll be touching on the fact that Sam and Dean were vessels and possibly have untapped power in s11 #ooooh #vancon

 

Edited August 30, 2015 by catrox14

[catrox14]

So I'm really starting to get antsy here. Not one sneak peek. Not one teaser.  NOTHING so far for this season?  That's either a very good thing or a very bad thing. 

 

Surely will get something like....this week or so?

[SueB]

Suzanne Gomez (CW publicist) said we'd get something this week (not necessarily a trailer or anything... just a "goodie").

[catrox14]

So, finally watched a full con panel for J2.

 

Jared spoiled the vessel thing I posted above IMO

 

Paraphrasing someone asked about them having been vessels and would they maybe have some untapped powers. And he said "We might find a little bit about that this season. We're gonna get a glimpse into that question" . And Jensen looked mortified and confused and said "Are you serious?" in a comical way. 

 

Now  I don't know if he was just playing around because Jared said too much and he's like shit...or if he didn't know even as much as Jared. Jared kept saying "Remember you heard it from Jensen, not me" and Jensen says' "You can't do that because I hadn't read that yet. And he's supposed to tell me when he reads things like that. Thanks a lot".  And he didn't say anything about it all.

 

Here's the clip with the rest of the panel. You can decide .

 

 

https://youtu.be/HOOGh3cQhvk?t=1254

Edited September 2, 2015 by catrox14

[Demented Daisy]

In more than one interview, Jensen made comments about them being just brothers again, no special abilities or powers or whatever.  So he may have been genuinely surprised.

[catrox14]

In more than one interview, Jensen made comments about them being just brothers again, no special abilities or powers or whatever.  So he may have been genuinely surprised.

That's a good point. It's possible since the question before was about Sam's tattoo, that it's a flashback thing that maybe only involves Sam and would also tie into the comments about Sam's visions.

I don't know if the surprise is because Jared spilled the beans in some way or Jensen didn't know, but either way...I think he was surprised at Jared's comments.

[SueB]

IA, it's a genuine spoiler so either surprise at the reveal or surprise at the turn of events. But thinking about it a bit more, if BOTH are receiving some sort of Supernatural visions (dreams for Sam, premonitions for Dean) - it being tied to them being Archangel vessels kinda fits.  It was God and the Archangels before so... they apparently are the only ones with the right bloodlines (except BEN ... who I insists is Dean's son and I'm not coming off of that position) that this proto-universe can tap into. So..the fact that not only is it their job (in their minds and per a normal narrative) to clean up the mess, that they are Archangel vessels is probably going to come in handy. 

 

All this leads me to... I would expect them to tease out the weirdness at the start and reveal the bigger picture at mid-season.  And IF this was the mid-season "reveal", then two things come to mind:

1) The girl NAILED it in her speculation .... which means it's not a complete left turn

2) somebody's in trouble (sing in like you are on the playground and you're 6).....but whataya gonna do? He was a bit busted with the question and he's been on the show longer than Carver ... so Carver will just have to deal. 

[Demented Daisy]

I see a whole lot of micro expressions in that video.

[catrox14]

 

(except BEN ... who I insists is Dean's son and I'm not coming off of that position

 

I swear to gods.  If they retcon that to being Dean's son....NOPE NOPE NOPE. 

That makes Lisa a liar because she flat out told Dean that Ben wasn't his son. She said she had a paternity test. 

 

What would be the point of her lying about that when he ended up living with her anyway and being a father to Ben until Sam showed up. Dean wasn't going to get into a custody battle over Ben. Gods and it's even worse because then he mind wiped his own son. YIKES.

 

I didn't like Lisa but that would be terrible for her characterization IMO.

Edited September 2, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

I swear to gods.  If they retcon that to being Dean's son....NOPE NOPE NOPE. 

That makes Lisa a liar because she flat out told Dean that Ben wasn't his son. She said she had a paternity test. 

 

What would be the point of her lying about that when he ended up living with her anyway and being a father to Ben until Sam showed up. Dean wasn't going to get into a custody battle over Ben. Gods and it's even worse because then he mind wiped his own son. YIKES.

 

I didn't like Lisa but that would be terrible for her characterization IMO.

Technically she said "blood test", which proves nothing unless they have the blood of the father and can do an actual paternity test.  And I wouldn't blame her for keep Ben's paternity to herself (even post-Apocalypse) because first all she knew was he was a grifter/monster hunter and then he was good with Ben but kinda rough around the edges.  Her kid's safety over Dean knowing the truth... any day of the week IMO.

 

But I FIRMLY believe we will never see Ben or hear about he OR Lisa again.   

[catrox14]

 

 

Technically she said "blood test", which proves nothing unless they have the blood of the father and can do an actual paternity test.  And I wouldn't blame her for keep Ben's paternity to herself (even post-Apocalypse) because first all she knew was he was a grifter/monster hunter and then he was good with Ben but kinda rough around the edges.  Her kid's safety over Dean knowing the truth... any day of the week IMO.

 

But I FIRMLY believe we will never see Ben or hear about he OR Lisa again.   

 

Oh I hope we don't hear from them. The showrunners would be idiots to open that can of worms again.

 

As to Ben's safety, if Lisa was THAT concerned IMO she would have never let him live with her and Ben in the first place.  It didn't matter if Ben was blood or not, Lisa and Ben would always been a potential target for Dean's enemies. That's another reason I was like WTF with that.

 

Anyhoo, not to get too sidetracked, but yeah I think Jared messed up when he took the shirtless selfie with Amell to begin with. I don't think that was a spoiler they wanted out and now it's just being compounded. 

 

Jensen's spoiling/trolling  is seemingly intentional to a degree and not big ole WHOOPS

[SueB]

Ruth has a new gig.

http://deadline.com/2015/09/sofia-the-first-merida-hugh-bonneville-ruth-connell-the-secret-library-1201511220/

Put here because it puts in to question her continued existence on SPN. She's only filmed EP 3 thus far and they are on EP 5. If be sad if she went out straight away.

[Demented Daisy]

She did say it was a wrap on Rowena.  Or was it Ruthie?  In any case, if they toss another character aside....  Dear Chuck, please don't tell me they kill her because she completed the spell.  I can just imagine -- ugh.  No.  No.  Nononononono.  Not going there.

 

On the upside, it sounds like the new gig is temporary, not an ongoing story, so with any luck, we'll get Rowena/Ruth back.

[sarthaz]

My apologies if this has been discussed, but I don't want to read all the spoilers in this thread, so I hope you don't mind me asking. :)  Is there a list anywhere of confirmed guest stars for Season 11?

[Demented Daisy]

Not to my knowledge.

[DittyDotDot]

I think the only ones who have been confirmed are, Ruth Connell (we know she was in the episode Jensen directed) and the woman they cast as Amarra. Sorry, I can't remember the actresses name. I believe Misha and Mark are series regulars again, too.

 

Some casting comes down to the wire though, so it would be hard to have a list out there yet as they've only filmed five episodes so far.

[Aeryn13]

 

I don't know if the surprise is because Jared spilled the beans in some way or Jensen didn't know, but either way...I think he was surprised at Jared's comments.

 

Since I don`t believe either one gets scripts in advance of the other, the only way Jared would know something more spoilerwise is if the PTBs specifically talked to only him about Sam`s storyline.

 

And while the fan question included both brothers, I think Jared`s answer only relates to Sam as I believe his visions will have to do something with Lucifer`s memories. So in a roundabout way, that`s a yes on having inherited some "powers" due to being the vessel.

 

It`s just not a storyline that has anything to do with Dean. I fully believe Dean won`t have any powers, since he never got to be Michael and his vessel arc got dropped like yesterday`s trash years ago he doesn`t have any special connection/memories and while they could easily create a connection via him having had the MOC, I don`t think this will be picked up in anyway.

 

So Jared might know roughly that special!Sam is incoming again whereas Jensen previously thought it was actually gonna be a Season where both brothers were equally not Chosen One. Why he would ever believe such a thing given the history of the show, I don`t know. I mean the writers seem incapable of not going back to Chosen One!Sam and equally incapable of even considering Dean for storylines that actually go somewhere.  

[DittyDotDot]

I got the sense that Jared may have misunderstood the question, at first, gave an answer, then when Jensen looked surprised realized that might not be right so he tried to make it into a joke. So it could be part true and part misunderstanding.

 

I'm probably projecting, though. They said neither Sam and Dean had powers, not just Jensen, and got my expectations up. They can't take it back now. I will not have it! ::whispers:: Note to self, gotta get back to researching away to smite someone over the internet. ;)

 

As to Rowena, I really have no ideas. I think TPTB love her, but I don't doubt they'd kill her just for "shock" value...it's hard to decide with that one.

[rue721]

Since I don`t believe either one gets scripts in advance of the other, the only way Jared would know something more spoilerwise is if the PTBs specifically talked to only him about Sam`s storyline.

 

They might have done. An old friend/boss of mine was a regular on a TV show, and she said that at the start of each season she was on, TPTB would have a meeting with her to give her a vague outline of where her character would be going for the season/arc. Just so she wasn't going in completely blind. Idk if that's the norm for all shows, or just for hers, but it wouldn't surprise me if that's something SPN does, too.

[Aeryn13]

 

I'm probably projecting, though. They said neither Sam and Dean had powers, not just Jensen, and got my expectations up. They can't take it back now.

 

And yet at the same time they already said Sam was gonna have special visions/prophetic dreams etc. So I thought all this "the brothers will not be afflicted with anything this Season and will just be themselves" stuff at Comic Con was hogwash from the start. It might not be the hand of Ipecac but how are special visions NOT some kind of special supernatural power in the context they were describing it? How does it not mean Sam has another supernatural specialness? They might not think of it as "powes" per se but I do. 

 

So sure, yeah, noone will have demon blood or soullessness or the Mark of Cain but that isn`t synonymous with "not a Chosen One". To me, they flat-out said at Comic Con that Sam would be one. I mean, back in Season 1 he "only" had visions as well and it was still the start of his Chosen One storyline. This is likely the same.

Maybe they didn`t realize it very well that they said "noone will have powers except we just told you that Sam will" but I can not say they weren`t, in their own way, upfront about it.

 

 

Idk if that's the norm for all shows, or just for hers, but it wouldn't surprise me if that's something SPN does, too.

 

I don`t think it`s uncommon. But again it means that Jensen didn`t get such a talk if certain spoilers surprise him. And he wouldn`t get such a talk if there is no preplanned rough story to inform him about. You don`t have to tell the actor who plays the bystander in another`s story.what`s gonna come, just the one who is actually the protagonist..

Edited September 2, 2015 by Aeryn13

[MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND]

Since I don`t believe either one gets scripts in advance of the other, the only way Jared would know something more spoilerwise is if the PTBs specifically talked to only him about Sam`s storyline.

 

And while the fan question included both brothers, I think Jared`s answer only relates to Sam as I believe his visions will have to do something with Lucifer`s memories. So in a roundabout way, that`s a yes on having inherited some "powers" due to being the vessel.

 

It`s just not a storyline that has anything to do with Dean. I fully believe Dean won`t have any powers, since he never got to be Michael and his vessel arc got dropped like yesterday`s trash years ago he doesn`t have any special connection/memories and while they could easily create a connection via him having had the MOC, I don`t think this will be picked up in anyway.

 

So Jared might know roughly that special!Sam is incoming again whereas Jensen previously thought it was actually gonna be a Season where both brothers were equally not Chosen One. Why he would ever believe such a thing given the history of the show, I don`t know. I mean the writers seem incapable of not going back to Chosen One!Sam and equally incapable of even considering Dean for storylines that actually go somewhere.  

I remember Jensen saying at a past convention that he doesn't like to read as far into a script as Jared does. He rather take it as it comes so he doesn't  know anything Dean doesn't know yet, which made a ton of sense to me.

[Aeryn13]

At the start of the Season maybe, I think, depending on what is finished yet in terms of scripts, they have 3 to 5 available for them. However, once they are in the shooting process, they have to be in synch because they are shooting in synch. 

 

And while Jensen could technically only study up on the sides they are about to shoot, it wouldn`t help "spoilerwise" because they shoot out of order so maybe the ending first, then the second scene and so on. So I don`t think Jensen doesn`t just roughly page through a new script when he gets it. It wouldn`t make sense otherwise. 

[DittyDotDot]

They might have done. An old friend/boss of mine was a regular on a TV show, and she said that at the start of each season she was on, TPTB would have a meeting with her to give her a vague outline of where her character would be going for the season/arc. Just so she wasn't going in completely blind. Idk if that's the norm for all shows, or just for hers, but it wouldn't surprise me if that's something SPN does, too.

 

Jensen once said that Kripke used to do this at the start of every season. I don't know if this is still happening, but I'm assuming not to the same degree because I don't think they have as much mapped out as Kripke used to. I think they just have vague notions at the start of the seasons now and wait to see where that takes them. I don't know. Plus, there's also this...

 

I remember Jensen saying at a past convention that he doesn't like to read as far into a script as Jared does. He rather take it as it comes so he doesn't  know anything Dean doesn't know yet, which made a ton of sense to me.

 

Yeah, it seems like Jared reads the scripts as soon as he gets them and Jensen tends to read only as far ahead as he needs to to get the work done.  Many actors seem to work on the principle of wanting to know where the character has been, but if they know where the character is going they worry they might unconsciously show too much too soon. 

 

Basically, sounds like Jared is a spoiler nut and Jensen prefers not to be spoiled if he can help it.

[catrox14]

They might have done. An old friend/boss of mine was a regular on a TV show, and she said that at the start of each season she was on, TPTB would have a meeting with her to give her a vague outline of where her character would be going for the season/arc. Just so she wasn't going in completely blind. Idk if that's the norm for all shows, or just for hers, but it wouldn't surprise me if that's something SPN does, too.

That does happen. Stephen Amell has talked but knowing what was coming for new season arcs for Arrow long before the rest of the cast since he is the sole lead and the show is about his character. I just think it would be weird for either jared on Jensen to not know what was generally planned for both Sam and Dean. And the whole vessel thing seems kind of important.

I'd be bothered if I going around in interviews saying something completely opposite of what it sounds like they are planning g to do. Maybe Jensen is the smokescreen and they don't want to tell us anything because maybe they are going to do something big.

I do feel like some of his comments of "just being the driver and bailing Sam out" were a bit snarky. But that's just my perception.

[Diane]

https://tvline.com/2015/09/02/supernatural-season-11-spoilers-photos-castiel-crowley-alive/

 

Enjoy!

[SueB]

Since I don`t believe either one gets scripts in advance of the other, the only way Jared would know something more spoilerwise is if the PTBs specifically talked to only him about Sam`s storyline.

 

 

Jared reads ahead, Jensen does not.  And they've said that so many times I have a hard time believing that it changed this year.  In other words what several already said but I think this one sums it up best:

 

Basically, sounds like Jared is a spoiler nut and Jensen prefers not to be spoiled if he can help it.

 

In sum, Aeryn, I think your premise is flawed on this particular occasion.

 

So....the TV Line photos are interesting:

1) Crowley is ALIVE.  Not that I had any doubt but what is Mark going to say now that we have a picture of he and his minions in a decidedly not-dead scene.

2) Dead people all over where Sam is at.  Is this the Darkness or a side effect of the Darkness coming out? 

3) Dean running thru the hall with a sheriff and a baby - definitely has that Apocalyptic feel

 

I don't think we'll have a full-on world-wide Apocalypse going but I could see those near ground zero getting some whammy.  I'm so glad we FINALLY got something official.

[Aeryn13]

 

Jared reads ahead, Jensen does not.  And they've said that so many times I have a hard time believing that it changed this year.

 

I know there is a gap between writing and production but if we`re talking finished scripts, it`s actually not that much once they start shooting. The writers are further down in breaking stories but that`s a far cry from actual scripts. So, even if one wants to be spoiled and the other does not, it`s not as if Jared has the next 5 to 10 scripts available to him. They get the one they are shooting and one after that since several production departments need to have one or at the very most two scripts in advance for prep work. And during the shooting,process for one, they both already usually do some studying lines for the next. Which means of course already reading the next. 

 

So in short, I don`t see where Jared would actually get scripts to "read ahead" from once they are smack-dabb in the middle of shooting as they are right now. Like I said, that works for Comic Con interviews when they say they have gotten the first five or so scripts and maybe Jensen has only bothered to read 3 of them whereas Jared read all 5. If Jared at this point knows significantly more in terms of spoilers for this Season then Jensen, then no, I don`t think he has it from scripts but from being briefed on major points of his own character`s storyline. Whereas for Jensen that has not been necessary. 

 

What will also happen occassionally is a writer, in the process of writing an ep, centered on a specific character, is to discuss certain things about it with the actor. Say in questioning if they have certain skills sets, might be comfortable with something or even have their input in terms of character.  

 

As for the pictures, well the best I can say for them is that Dean is in them and in a badass look. Going by the short accompanying article alone, it only mentions Sam, Cas and Crowley. That`s what I liked about the last Season and a half, the bloggers couldn`t really make their usual "Dean who" articles, even if they wanted to because he was a pivotal player in the plot.  

[DittyDotDot]

No one is suggesting Jared is getting scripts before Jensen, just that Jensen doesn't seem to dig into his until he has to. Jared seems to. I believe at the beginning of the season they are getting scripts two or three episodes ahead. By the end of the season it's tighter and they get scripts only about a week before shooting. So right now, Jared may have read two or three episodes ahead of Jensen.

Edited September 2, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

When was the last time it was confirmed that Jensen doesn't like to read ahead? Maybe he's changed his habits since becoming a director. It seems like it would be difficult to direct an episode that airs 3rd without knowing what comes before that and how it will influence what he wants from his actors. He might not know like 6 episodes ahead but I would think he's have been given some kind of framework as to overall arc at least for the first 3 or 4 episodes.

I dunno. I think someone needs to ask him at the next con.

[Aeryn13]

I still think with the way scheduling and production works right now  they are in synch in terms of reading up on scripts. If they both have two scripts ahead of the one they are currently shooting, that would already strain my credulity. I think it`s one and both would thumb through it as normal prep work. 

 

But in the end, it`s really no biggie. I do think Jared`s answer at Comic Con was for his own character and didn`t include Dean`s. It`s not so much a new spoiler as clarifying more about the Comic Con ones about Sam.

 

Also, I can buy that Jensen wouldn`t necessarily get all hung up on Sam`s storylines. Even at Comic Con when he mentioned several stuff about how the new Season would find the brothers united and without powers etc, Carver would be like "well -ish". Both him and Dabb said that friction and bumbs in the road would arise from having different opinions on how to handle the new threat.

 

Easy to see that Sam will, as per Jared, believe a higher power guides him now and Dean will be sceptical and round and round we go. The writers know way more in advance of course and they also played to the crowd a bit who cheered all the "brothers united" stuff. As the actors happily proclaim this, they will hardly come out and say "well, three to five episodes in and we`re back to same old, same old".

 

I found it all pretty obvious and writing on the wall but I think it did/does surprise Jensen. He seemed to have a more optimistic outlook. Guess going back to work last Season with a "well, I`m kinda excited and interested about playing Demon!Dean" and being met with "here is ep 3 you`re directing, it`s the end of that mini storyline already" didn`t deter him. Or the equally as fast-dropped Purgatory that he still mentions on wishing it went on longer. 

[DittyDotDot]

When was the last time it was confirmed that Jensen doesn't like to read ahead? Maybe he's changed his habits since becoming a director. It seems like it would be difficult to direct an episode that airs 3rd without knowing what comes before that and how it will influence what he wants from his actors. He might not know like 6 episodes ahead but I would think he's have been given some kind of framework as to overall arc at least for the first 3 or 4 episodes.

I dunno. I think someone needs to ask him at the next con.

 

I believe he mentioned at Comic Con he had read the first four scripts for directing this year.

[Diane]

Personally I think it is a little bit of their thing for conventions, like how Jensen always acts like he doesn't remember a scene or episode at all.  He also always says he doesn't read ahead.  He probably does, you would think he has too, but that is how they play it.  I don't know just my opinion.

[SueB]

Regardless of who reads what script when, if Jensen or Jared had a talk with a producer, they'd share it with the other straight away.  I have zero doubt of this.  So if Jensen was truly surprised on story line (personally I think he was genuinely surprise Jared answered), it's because Jared read something that Jensen hadn't yet. Not because TPTB had a special meeting with Jared only. And if they did, it would have been unusual and Jared would have spilled everything to Jensen straight away.  And vice-a-versa.  They are really a tight team off screen.  I think they realized that was the smart way to go in S1 and they've stuck like that since.  It's probably why the show has never had BTS drama. 

 

Bottom line: NOTHING Jared said implied one or the other.  The question was about "vessels" and he replied in the plural, not singular. There are many more high probability reasons for Jensen's reaction than him not being in the loop about a significant Sam-only character development. 

[Aeryn13]

 

The question was about "vessels" and he replied in the plural, not singular.

 

The question was in the plural but "you might find out a bit about it in Season 11" is non-commital enough that it could mean one, both or nothing really. I doubt he is allowed to come right out and give such a specific spoiler about Sam. To clarify that he is only talking about Sam would be a big enough spoiler IMO. 

 

I would be incredibly happy if there was something about Dean and the Michael connection again or latent powers or anything, I WISH that happened. But after how this show has gone so far, I have to stop being Charlie Brown and STILL running at that ball, expecting different results.

 

 

Not because TPTB had a special meeting with Jared only. And if they did, it would have been unusual

 

Why would that have been unusual? I remember Jared mentioning things like that in the past. And why would he run to Jensen afterwards to tell Jensen all about the newest Sam storyline? To me that would serve no purpose, least of all for Jensen. 

Edited September 2, 2015 by Aeryn13