Spoilers With Speculation

[Demented Daisy]

Ack!  I can't take it any more.  I held out as long as I could.

 

Appointment in Samarra

[DittyDotDot]

I sincerely hope it was a conscious choice. I think we've had enough of them being forced to do things they have no control over, it's time they be in control of their choices, IMO. Plus, it makes the story more complex that way, in my mind.

Ack!  I can't take it any more.  I held out as long as I could.

 

Appointment in Samarra

 

Shit, I don't know why I continue to type that wrong. It's like the word niece, I always want to spell it neice...which is wrong. Sorry Daisy, I should really get a better grip on that. I'll go fix it.

[Demented Daisy]

No need to apologize.  If anything, I apologize for my OCD-like tendencies.  I hate being "that" person.

 

As you were.  :-)

[catrox14]

I kind of like your misspelling Dot. I always think of it like Dean and Death were on a quest for the freshest and best coffee in Sumatra but just got sidetracked by that whole rescuing Sam's soul thing. :)

[DittyDotDot]

No need to apologize.  If anything, I apologize for my OCD-like tendencies.  I hate being "that" person.

 

As you were.  :-)

 

But I need "that" person!

[7kstar]

I'm more bothered by Death's scythe being that overly large one that was not Death's original smaller scythe. It's my only hope for why that might not be actual!Death. I could totally see Metatron messing up that moment because he might have forgotten the scythe was small OR because Metatron wanted a big scythe because Metatron is a dickwad and would probably think the bigger the scythe the better. Continuity fail like the rip in Cas' coat in Meta Fiction.

 

I'm still trying to figure out if Dean killing Death was a plan he had from the moment he found out about the Darkness or if he just changed his mind because Sammy showed him Mary's picture. Or if he was guided by another force at the last moment. Right now I'm leaning towards guided by another force, which means I'm probably wrong,

I'm hoping it wasn't Death but Metatron trying to kill Sam and Dean someone how connected to love and did the right thing at the end even though it looks selfish right now.  So I could go with on this idea, but that doesn't mean they will do this....they do like messing with us, don't they.

 

 

Ooh, ooh, ooh...does that mean if Death can be bound then God can as well?

Now that might be an interesting question...too bad they won't use it... They seem to do the opposite of what we want.  Sure they will give us the brothers together for a moment but since season 3 when have the brother's really enjoyed being together.  I'm sick of their formula, now I guess the game will be to see if I can spot what they will do after I watch the first ep....

Ack!  I can't take it any more.  I held out as long as I could.

 

Appointment in Samarra

I will never notice some misspelled words...I will always misspell some words so if you don't help out, we will just live with bad misspelling on the board.  So we need you to help us out, plus you do it with style.  :)

[AwesomO4000]

I don't think the ring is why Death could stroll into the cage, I think he's just that powerful. It does seem rather silly that Death is that powerful, but could so easily be bound by both Lucifer and later the Winchesters. I think of Death as a counterpoint to God, though.

 

I'm not sure it was technically easy per se - at least in Lucifer's case. The ritual Lucifer went through was really, really elaborate, and likely only could've been done in any way comfortably by Lucifer or maybe an angel like Gabriel. It did require killing and burying about 600 - 700 women and children (estimate) and then killing about maybe 400 + (estimate) demons which I suppose a regular person or people  - maybe witches - technically could do, but I imagine it would take a long time and a hell of a lot of effort (pun intended).

 

As for the ritual Crowley found for Sam and Dean, I suspect that that one wasn't as extensive - it appeared that Death was somewhat contained right there and I assume - but can't say for sure, it just maybe seemed like it - was likely restricted to one "favor" at which point, in most cases Death would likely kill you afterwards as soon as he was free. Dean could get away with it, because he's Dean, and Death had a soft spot for him for getting him out of his predicament with Lucifer. Also Crowley was likely the only one to be able to find that particular ritual - and he did so because he wanted to save his own skin and not be Castiel's bitch any more.

 

As for binding God: that's an interesting question. Is He the only one who is immune? Because all powerful things in this verse seem to have some sort of kryptonite, whether it be the angels (even archangels) still being able to be bound by holy oil or sent back to heaven with the blood sigil - and if you think about it, those are much easier than the rituals to bind Death, so in comparison Death is pretty powerful - fairies having to stoop to count sugar or salt grains, or demons in the devil's traps. It appears everything * in SPNverse has at least one weakness. The difficulty is finding that weakness

 

* With the potential exception being God himself if he created all of the other beings and gave them a weakness. Well at least now if Death is gone, since he presumably used to be God's weakness.

[DittyDotDot]

I'm not sure it was technically easy per se - at least in Lucifer's case. The ritual Lucifer went through was really, really elaborate, and likely only could've been done in any way comfortably by Lucifer or maybe an angel like Gabriel. It did require killing and burying about 600 - 700 women and children (estimate) and then killing about maybe 400 + (estimate) demons which I suppose a regular person or people  - maybe witches - technically could do, but I imagine it would take a long time and a hell of a lot of effort (pun intended).

 

I thought that ritual was to raise Death, not bind him?

[AwesomO4000]

I thought that ritual was to raise Death, not bind him?

I always thought that it did both, because once Death was raised, I thought that he had to do whatever Lucifer told him to do. I assumed it was why Death gave Dean the ring, but had to wait for Dean to "catch up." Death couldn't go to Dean or anyone else, because Lucifer had him bound. He explained to Dean that he couldn't get himself unbound and that nothing could unbind him...

 

From the Supernatural Wiki transcript for "Two Minutes to Midnight" :

 

DEAN So, then why am I still breathing, sitting here with you? Uh...w-what do you want?

DEATH The leash around my neck --off. Lucifer has me bound to him. Some unseemly little spell. He has me where he wants, when he wants. That's why I couldn't go to you. I had to wait for you to catch up. He made me his weapon. Hurricanes, floods, raising the dead. I'm more powerful than you can process, and I'm enslaved to a bratty child with a temper tantrum.

DEAN And you think...I can unbind you?

DEATH There's your ridiculous bravado again. Of course you can't. But you can help me take the bullets out of Lucifer's gun. I understand you want this.

 

Although it's a good possibility that the ritual was not the "unseemly little spell" that Death was referring to, I assumed that the ritual did both or otherwise Death could've gone off on his merry way once he was raised. So I guess that could be left up to interpretation. In which case we wouldn't know what spell Lucifer used to bind Death, since we didn't see it done.

 

I guess I would have to go back and see when Death's disasters started happening to try to deduce whether Lucifer had him under control the whole time or not, but I just assumed the raising was a "raise Death so he'll be under my control" thing and not that another spell was done later. I could be wrong about that though.

 

Edited to add: Though now that you mention it, the fact that Death had to be "raised" - meaning that he was locked up or put out of commission somewhere? - does say that there was something powerful enough to get him there in the first place. Whether that was God or the Fates or whatever - it was implied Death himself only gets brought up for the "big things?" by Bobby I think - the canon was put into place that he is bindable and/or controllable sometimes for long periods of time apparently.

 

Which might lead to the possibility of the speculation that if God is going to come back, that he might not want Death still running around free, thereby helping along the scenario where Death gets snuffed, so he can't reap God if he shows. More Winchester manipulation - which would suck, but be par for the course with God and his right hand men.

Edited June 17, 2015 by AwesomO4000

[catrox14]

This is a great conversation because it actually makes me reallly think more (like I need to think more) about why Death isn't really most sincerely dead. I gotta noodle on this.

[MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND]

I'm more bothered by Death's scythe being that overly large one that was not Death's original smaller scythe. It's my only hope for why that might not be actual!Death. I could totally see Metatron messing up that moment because he might have forgotten the scythe was small OR because Metatron wanted a big scythe because Metatron is a dickwad and would probably think the bigger the scythe the better. Continuity fail like the rip in Cas' coat in Meta Fiction.

 

I'm still trying to figure out if Dean killing Death was a plan he had from the moment he found out about the Darkness or if he just changed his mind because Sammy showed him Mary's picture. Or if he was guided by another force at the last moment. Right now I'm leaning towards guided by another force, which means I'm probably wrong,

I think he was guided by another force. He looked too surprised afterwards. Did the MOC intervene? Did God intervene? I'm sure he didn't just miss Sam and hit Death, I think he changed his mind as he swung and that's when "something" took over?

[lmdreamer]

and this would explain why death who has proven to be near omnipresent in the past didn't see the scythe coming.

[catrox14]

First spoilers leaking out. 

 

http://tvline.com/2015/06/24/supernatural-season-11-spoilers-cast-amara-femme-fatale/

 

Ausiello: The Jensen Ackles-helmed Season 11 premiere* is titled “The Bad Seed” and now I know why: It marks the introduction of Amara, a femme fatale in her late 20s who possesses an acid tongue and a seductive beauty. The fearmonger is new to Earth and is so not impressed with the place. That doesn’t stop her from sticking around; she’s set to recur throughout the season. Not-So-Crazy-Theory: When The Darkness was released in the finale, this badass came with it. (*Even though the installment is numbered 1101, Supernatural episodes regularly air out of order — meaning, it could be the second or third ep of the season.)

 

This one is pretty lame and I'm also confused why it's being called the premiere. Jensen is directing but he usually directs one that airs after the premiere.   Weird.  And this is a big YAWN for me. Oh look a sexy new female character...SHOCKED.  I'll bet she hooks up with Sam or Dean. Also....the episodes DON'T regularly air out of order. They shoot out of order and air in order.

 

I love Jensen as a director but I don't think they would give him the premiere episode. Unless Dean won't be in it much...Maybe Jensen was already spoiling the premiere when he said he hoped Dean would be missing from the Darkness. 

[AwesomO4000]

That sounds too much like a repeat of Abaddon for my tastes.

[DittyDotDot]

First spoilers leaking out. 

 

http://tvline.com/2015/06/24/supernatural-season-11-spoilers-cast-amara-femme-fatale/

 

 

This one is pretty lame and I'm also confused why it's being called the premiere. Jensen is directing but he usually directs one that airs after the premiere.   Weird.  And this is a big YAWN for me. Oh look a sexy new female character...SHOCKED.  I'll bet she hooks up with Sam or Dean. Also....the episodes DON'T regularly air out of order. They shoot out of order and air in order.

 

I love Jensen as a director but I don't think they would give him the premiere episode. Unless Dean won't be in it much...Maybe Jensen was already spoiling the premiere when he said he hoped Dean would be missing from the Darkness. 

 

So, it looks like I actually might of called on thing..a woman, with an unfortunate name...well, not the name so much anyway. Wonder how they'll make a joke out of Amara? ;)

 

I actually think having Jensen direct the premiere might be a smart move. It would've been a lot smarter for them to have him direct the premiere last season, IMO. Black was better suited to Jensen's talents and I think having him direct Soul Survivor made them lock things in that they may have been able to shift if it hadn't been the first one shot. It all depends on whether they're gonna stay real myth heavy for a couple episodes or not. The reason Weekend At Bobby's worked so well in S6 is that it was a one-off and didn't muck with anything they needed to lay the groundwork for. I don't know, I'm kinda optimistic about this choice.

 

BTW, they have aired episodes out of order in the past: My Bloody Valentine and Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid were both aired out of order. Also, in S1 there were a couple that got aired out of order; Hookman and Phantom Traveler, if I recall properly.

[Omegamom]

Echoes of Haven and Mara?

Oh, well. We'll see how it all works out.

[catrox14]

 

BTW, they have aired episodes out of order in the past: My Bloody Valentine and Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid were both aired out of order. Also, in S1 there were a couple that got aired out of order; Hookman and Phantom Traveler, if I reca

ll properly

 

In general they do not air out of order as a matter of course like the snippet I quoted implied. 

[catrox14]

 

I actually think having Jensen direct the premiere might be a smart move. It would've been a lot smarter for them to have him direct the premiere last season, IMO. Black was better suited to Jensen's talents and I think having him direct Soul Survivor made them lock things in that they may have been able to shift if it hadn't been the first one shot. It all depends on whether they're gonna stay real myth heavy for a couple episodes or not. The reason Weekend At Bobby's worked so well in S6 is that it was a one-off and didn't muck with anything they needed to lay the groundwork for. I don't know, I'm kinda optimistic about this choice.

 

I just saw on Twitter that Ausiello clarified it will be the 3rd episode that airs. 

 

Re Soul Survivor. I'm not sure how Jensen directing that episode changes anything about the episode. They already intended to be rid of demon!Dean by episode 4 anyway. And IMO I don't think it affected performances.  The one thing that did affect the episode is Jared breaking his shoulder but that affected the first 4 episodes no matter what so that probably changed a lot of pacing and possible fights and what not.

[SueB]

Thanks catrox!

 

Ladies and Gentlemen...Start Your Theory Engines!.....

 

Really, at this point, it seems like they are holding true to form.  They'll "resolve" the finale by the third episode and Amara will be the largest lingering left behind (at least as a recurring character).  I could be wrong.  We might have an entire planet of people affected by amoral darkness....but I'm betting not.  I'm betting that they've just unleashed a series of Big Bads who they will roll out over the course of the season. Rowena was ALSO introduced in the 3rd episode.  The guys at SPN seem to like a little predictability in their season-structure. 

[DittyDotDot]

I just saw on Twitter that Ausiello clarified it will be the 3rd episode that airs. 

 

Re Soul Survivor. I'm not sure how Jensen directing that episode changes anything about the episode. They already intended to be rid of demon!Dean by episode 4 anyway. And IMO I don't think it affected performances.  The one thing that did affect the episode is Jared breaking his shoulder but that affected the first 4 episodes no matter what so that probably changed a lot of pacing and possible fights and what not.

 

I don't think it effected the performances, exactly, but the pacing and possibly some story threads could've shifted if they hadn't already locked things in Soul Survivor. Also, Soul Survivor was heavier on the visual effects and I don't thing that's Jensen's strong suit, as of yet. And, Soul Survivor was written by the weakest writers and I think it would be smarter to give their scripts to a more experienced director. 

 

I'd love to see what Jensen would do with one of Jeremy's scripts, I'm thinking those two would probably be a very good team up. I think Jensen's strengths lie in understanding character and Jeremy usually writes more character driven scripts. Not that it really matters since it's not going to happen, but for a minute there I was kinda excited to see what Jensen would do with the challenge.

[Demented Daisy]

From the same article:

 

♦ I just received a piece of 2015-16 TV season intel that is going to leave a certain fandom shaken, stirred and seriously pissed off — sort of how you’re feeling right now after reading this vague, cryptic tease.

 

 

So....  Any chance Jared is thinking of leaving the show, after his post-season fatigue?

[catrox14]

Eh.  I could see Jared taking more time away from the show, but I don't think he would leave altogether.  But if he or Jensen or Mark or Misha left would it leave fandom shaken, stirred and pissed off? Shocked and surprised maybe? But pissed off implies something really major that would go against what is a perceived norm within the show or even IRL. 

 

Heh, the ONE thing I could see pissing off fandom is if they made Samstiel canon and not Destiel. LOL ( I keed....kind of)

 

 

I think that blind is about Arrow. 

Edited June 25, 2015 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

And the Darkness no longer is a black cloud. Well, it was either another bromantic male character and they already play with two of those dynamics or a hot chick with an attitude. They went with door number 2.

 

The blind item, I don`t think it`s SPN. 

[Diane]

I don't think it effected the performances, exactly, but the pacing and possibly some story threads could've shifted if they hadn't already locked things in Soul Survivor. Also, Soul Survivor was heavier on the visual effects and I don't thing that's Jensen's strong suit, as of yet. And, Soul Survivor was written by the weakest writers and I think it would be smarter to give their scripts to a more experienced director. 

 

I'd love to see what Jensen would do with one of Jeremy's scripts, I'm thinking those two would probably be a very good team up. I think Jensen's strengths lie in understanding character and Jeremy usually writes more character driven scripts. Not that it really matters since it's not going to happen, but for a minute there I was kinda excited to see what Jensen would do with the challenge.

Jim Michaels ‏@TheJimMichaels 3m3 minutes ago Burnaby, British Columbia

The 1st Ep of @cw_spn that we will shoot for season 11 will be 3rd to air on October 21, 2015 #SPNfamily with @JensenAckles at the helm!

 

just saw this tweet.

[rue721]

I'd love to see what Jensen would do with one of Jeremy's scripts, I'm thinking those two would probably be a very good team up. I think Jensen's strengths lie in understanding character and Jeremy usually writes more character driven scripts. Not that it really matters since it's not going to happen, but for a minute there I was kinda excited to see what Jensen would do with the challenge.

 

What I like about Jensen's direction is that he obviously puts the time in. For example, you could tell that he'd worked pretty hard on figuring out how to shoot some of those Soul Survivor sequences. Personally, I think his direction was the best thing about that episode -- the sequence of Dean hunting Sam through the bunker was especially good imo. You could tell the set was tiny as hell, but he managed to make the cat-and-mouse game scary anyway.

 

But eh, I just really dislike laziness, and really dislike seeing signs that someone was lazy about their work. YMMV. (That's where so much of my dislike of B & R-L scripts come from. It's so clear that they don't put in the work on their scripts, their writing just comes off as so *lazy*). For whatever he lacks in experience and even though he sometimes misses the mark, JA seems to me to always put in the work (in terms of both acting and directing) and I really appreciate that as a viewer.

 

So mostly, I would most want to see him paired (as a director) with a writer who's going to put as much effort into the script as he's going to put into the direction (and the acting).

 

I'm really interested to see who the writing staff is for S11. Oh well, will look it up. :)

 

From the same article:

 

 

So....  Any chance Jared is thinking of leaving the show, after his post-season fatigue?

 

I doubt it. It seems like he's close with a lot of the cast/crew and enjoys his job -- if he's struggling a bit, I think the worst thing he could do would be to isolate himself and quit work?

 

But you succeeded in giving me a heart attack, so thanks :P

[DittyDotDot]

Oh, I definitely think Jensen does his homework, no doubt about it. Personally, I was mostly bored by all the chasing around the bunker in Soul Survivor, but I appreciate the effort Jensen put into it. For me, Soul Survivor was boring because it was written boring and I wonder if a more experienced director could've made it more, is all. But, I don't think Jensen did poorly with the episode. Not at all.

 

I'd really like to see Jensen take on a season premiere mostly because I think it could shake things up a bit and the show could really use a good shake up. Plus, Jensen seems to be happiest when he's challenged and taking on a season premiere would most likely be just that. Plus, I'm guessing Singer will end up directing the premiere and I would say his episodes generally come off as lazy to me.

 

 

I'm really interested to see who the writing staff is for S11. Oh well, will look it up. :)

 

I'm curious about this as well. They lost Glass, so did they hire someone else or just add another episode to the current staff's to do list? I haven't heard about anyone joining the team yet.

[Aeryn13]

 

But eh, I just really dislike laziness, and really dislike seeing signs that someone was lazy about their work. YMMV. (That's where so much of my dislike of B & R-L scripts come from. It's so clear that they don't put in the work on their scripts, their writing just comes off as so *lazy*).

 

Then abandon all hope for this new episode because Jim Michaels confirmed on twitter they are writing it. 

 

Seriously, I don`t care that they "like" to do mytharc episodes - as per some DVD special where they said so in interviews - you don`t give suck employees the important jobs. Apparently you do when they are married to one of the bosses. Urgh. I hate their episodes. 

 

If Jensen is directing, then maybe Dean isn`t in it too much (though it was sizeable in Soul Survivor already) because they are not kind to the character in any way, shape or form.  

[Demented Daisy]

I doubt it. It seems like he's close with a lot of the cast/crew and enjoys his job -- if he's struggling a bit, I think the worst thing he could do would be to isolate himself and quit work?

 

But you succeeded in giving me a heart attack, so thanks :P

 

Isolate himself?  Don't you mean the old standby -- "spending more time with family"?  ;-)  And you're welcome.

[SueB]

*groans* B-L script. *sigh*

[Mick Lady]

For everyone who worries about their spelling...

 

I can't spell to save my fuckin' life. It used to bother me, until my girlfriend (the one who taught Writer's Workshop) decided to get her doctorate in education. Her candidacy paper was on the development of language, which led both of us to go hear Nome Chomsky lecture, several times.( He was a linguist before he got political.) Anyway, he said that great readers are rotten spellers, and good spellers are horrible readers! I know that sounds weird, but as I understood it, it has to do with word recognition. Good readers take in the word as a whole, and poor readers see each individual letter of a word. If you think about it, it makes sense! So, I no longer feel bad about my lousy spelling! 

[AwesomO4000]

Interesting Mick Lady.

 

I suffer from maybe "wrong remembering?" Heh. I, too, am a bad speller despite having a decent-sized vocabulary. I know the words... just not how to spell them correctly - hee. There are certain words that I spell incorrectly over and over again or I just can't for the life of me remember how to spell and have to check spellcheck. And some of these are common words, too (Schedule is one of those words).

 

I'm not quite sure that I'm a good reader though as I tend to be a slow reader. But then again, I don't mind being a slow reader, because I like to take my time, and I'm stubborn. If I forget something, I'll dig back in that book until I find it, and won't give up until I do (Unlike television shows where I'm more apt to let such details go). So perhaps my bad spelling goes along with the stubborn thing... my brain just doesn't want to remember the right spelling and balks at me trying to make it  -- heh. (I really do take after Sam that way who was apparently stubborn even when he could barely remember who he was - heh... one of my favorite Sam lines there - Robin: Look is there any way I can convince you to go to a hospital?" Sam: "No. Apparently, I'm stubborn.")

 

And that maybe is the only thing that's keeping me form balking and giving up after the finale. I can almost buy that Sam is just so stubborn he wouldn't give up on his plan... though that seems unnecessarily stubborn even for Sam.

 

However these new spoilers are testing even my stubbornness to keep going here, because I just don't have any confidence that the current writers can do a femme fatale character in a believable or enjoyable way. I'm not even sure "late 20s" is old enough for a femme fatale in the current cultural trends. I more think of someone like Amy Dunn, a true femme fatale (from Gone Girl), who was played by Rosamund Pike who was mid 30s at the time. Comic book femme fatales are a bit different and tend to skew younger, but that's not the style I want to see in this show.

 

Then again, I guess Theresa Russel was late 20's in "Black Widow," so maybe as long as "late 20s" actually means late 20s and not say 25, maybe I'll be able to see it.

[mertensia]

I'm a voracious reader and an excellent speller, partially because my teachers assumed anyone who read as much as I did was a great speller. Except for jewelry. That word never looks right. Ever. I won't guarantee it's spelled correctly now.

In any case: really? More evil women? I'm guessing she's the Walking Darkness?

[DittyDotDot]

I'm assuming when you say "good" reader you aren't necessarily referring to how much one reads, but how well one comprehends. I'm a horrible proof reader because my brain usually just makes the word look right--in other words, I know what the word is and what it means--and it's really bad if I'm proofing something I wrote, because I know what it is supposed to be--so I don't get hung up in how it's spelled. But, I'm a voracious reader when my work life doesn't interfere with my reading.

 

To be honest, it's been suggested that maybe I had a learning disability when I was a kid and learned to compensate for it without any special help. Which actually made a lot of sense and put some of my grade school years in perspective.

 

Anyhoo, so, do you guys think this Darkness will be contained to just the one female?

Edited June 27, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[Aeryn13]

I`m expecting Eve 2.0, contained mostly to one actress for budgetary reasons but probably able to shapeshift for opportune moments in one or two special episodes. 

[7kstar]

For everyone who worries about their spelling...

 

I can't spell to save my fuckin' life. It used to bother me, until my girlfriend (the one who taught Writer's Workshop) decided to get her doctorate in education. Her candidacy paper was on the development of language, which led both of us to go hear Nome Chomsky lecture, several times.( He was a linguist before he got political.) Anyway, he said that great readers are rotten spellers, and good spellers are horrible readers!

 

I Can't spell and even spell-check will give up on me.  I do read and I get the meaning of it, quickly unless it is something that is in legalize.    But I've been told I'm dyslexic (If it wasn't for spell-check that word would be misspelled.)

 

Spelling has nothing to do with intelligence.  If you spell great you most likely will always do so, if you suck at it, you most always will do so.  I've even tricked my students into thinking I misspelled a word deliberately to see if they could catch it, when in reality I just misspelled it and they caught it.  Then because I love to hide my weaknesses especially back then, I turned it on them, by asking well how do you spell it?  They didn't have a clue I didn't know.  Hee hee.  I'm evil, yes I am. 

 

Unfortunately, because of the way people talked to me I really thought I was stupid.  Hence the shock that I even write today.  I over look everything I write and just know it isn't worth reading but for some reason I keep taking on impossible battles.  I think my writing has improved enormously since 2006 but my verbal is always and always will be higher than the written word.  If we didn't live in the age of computers, I still wouldn't be trying this strange thing called writing. 

 

I had people tell me I should be a writer and that was how I got into fanfic.  Maybe the problem with some of the writers on the show, they've had the opposite.  They've been praised so often that they think they are much more capable than they are.   I wonder???

I`m expecting Eve 2.0, contained mostly to one actress for budgetary reasons but probably able to shapeshift for opportune moments in one or two special episodes. 

Well I predicted that they would only deal with the darkness for the first 3 and then it will show up in a mass mess at the end.  So that won't be a big surprise for me at all.

 

Also, since the darkness looked so much like the end of season 2, I expect we will see many bodies being taken over, maybe even the boys.  What if they took over one and Sam wakes up alone again.  The crazy reason for Sam is because Jensen said something about I hope I'm missing at the beginning of the season.  Of course it could be Jensen waking up alone without Sam if Jared needed more time off.

 

Still not excited and so far none of the crumbs have lifted my spirits about this season.  If I didn't love how the cast and crew got along so well, it would be so easy to walk off.  Maybe the 2nd ep will do something for the season...

 

Jensen is a good director, but it takes time to learn the ropes of directing but so far I think he has so much promise.  Just like Robert Ducan McNeil did in Voyager.  He learned on the show and Jensen approach is very much like RDM.

[mertensia]

I say let the Darkness walk around looking like John or Mary Winchester.

[Mick Lady]

I think Nome was talking about comprehension. But this isn't my field, and I would never presume to know what he was talking about!

 

7kstar, you are so far from stupid, it's not even worth discussing. Good Lord you're posts are some of the most thoughtful and insightful comments on this board! Anyone who thinks you're stupid has the intelligence of a backwards amoeba. You hang with some real assholes!

 

As for "The Darkness", I agree. Three episodes and it will be gone. I wish the writers would come up with one thing we haven't seen before! At this point, I would think most viewers are long time fans. We don't need the same old story told over and over again!

 

Fanfiction is more intriguing for me right now. At least it's something NEW!

Edited June 29, 2015 by Mick Lady

[AwesomO4000]

Fanfiction is more intriguing for me right now. At least it's something NEW!

 

Hee. Uh oh, I think we created a convert... welcome to the dark side, Mick Lady.

[7kstar]

 

 

7kstar, you are so far from stupid, it's not even worth discussing. snip You hang with some real assholes!

 

 

Fanfiction is more intriguing for me right now. At least it's something NEW!

Hopefully like Dean is learning to do, I have learned to put boundaries down.  When I went to school adults could be abusive whether they were teacher's or what not, and as a young mind, I believed them.  I've learned boundaries, a really strange idea for me at first, but it has helped me be a better teacher for the young minds I try to shape.  Won't say I'm perfect, but I do my best to do no harm.  If I can do this so can Dean...that is if the writers will let him grow as a person.

 

I would love to see Dean and Sam moving forward.  Both acknowledging what they have done to the world and trying to fix the mess together.   However because a good chunk of us want this, what would be the rehash that could be done in a so called fresh way but not really a new way.  The next rinse and repeat. 

 

Can we avoid a time jump finally...Is it time to do season 6 or 7?  We've done 1,3,4 and part of 5 right?  How do we twist 7 into an interesting story we want to see and could the big bad be entertaining at least?  Where are my spoilers to help me figure this out?  Pouts.

 

Oh Fanfic...it will suck you dry...but maybe you have a stronger sense of will-power than I do.  Be careful, the next step is writing it!  LOL.

[DittyDotDot]

Can we avoid a time jump finally...Is it time to do season 6 or 7?  We've done 1,3,4 and part of 5 right?  How do we twist 7 into an interesting story we want to see and could the big bad be entertaining at least?  Where are my spoilers to help me figure this out?  Pouts.

 

Oh, I've totally been thinking of the Darkness as similar to the Leviathans. Old world evil, locked away by God and now loose on the world and I bet it has a plan that's been cooking since the dawn of man. The fresh twist will probably be that the Darkness will be represented by a quippy woman instead of a man. On a brighter note, S7 had Sam and Dean working together for the most part and they stepped back from the demon and angel wars of boredom.

 

Sorry, just call me cynical Suzie today.

[SueB]

So what do we know about "The Darkness".
 

Death: "Before there was light, before there was God and the Archangels, there wasn't nothing. There was the Darkness. A horribly destructive amoral force that was beaten back by God and his Archangels in a terrible war. God locked The Darkness away where it could do no harm. And he created a Mark that would serve as both Lock and Key. Which he entrusted to his most valued lieutenant, Lucificer.  But the Mark began to assert it's own will. Revealed itself as a curse and began to corrupt. Lucifer became jealous of man. God banished Lucifer to Hell. Lucifer pass the Mark to Cain who passed the Mark to you. The proverbial finger in the dike.

(Death offers to have Dean share the Mark)

...to ensure the Lock remains unbroken and The Darkness remains banned.

(And in conversation with Sammy)
...a far greater evil than any of us have ever known

 

Parsing it up a bit, I think we see the following characteristics of "The Darkness";

horribly destructive - so NOT good, destruction being opposite of creation

amoral force - but doesn't give a shit about right and wrong

beaten back in a war - seems it took many to defeat it.  Is it possible this "force" is not a single entity? ...Wait, the BORG! (sorry, crossover moment)

a far greater evil - this seems to suggest that destruction=anticreation=evil.  "Evil" is different than "amoral".  So, I'm a bit confused on the nature of The Darkness

 

And then characteristics of The Mark:

it's own will - that seemed more unified, one THING

corrupts - fits the evil vibe

 

In sum:

Lots of hints, could go in MANY directions. But I'd guess that there may be more than one manifestation of The Darkness.  Destruction, amoral, AND evil being their chief characteristics.

 

But what do they WANT?  To be free to destroy?  To get back at God and his creations? To party like a rock start because they just don't give a shit?

 

IDK. I think the femme fatale may be only ONE manifestation of The Darkness.  

[Aeryn13]

 

But what do they WANT?  To be free to destroy?  To get back at God and his creations? To party like a rock start because they just don't give a shit?

 

If Death`s story is true - and I have no reason to doubt it - then the Darkness just was, it basically existed. Then came God and a couple of archangels, battled it and locked it up to make room for creation. So from the Darkness` standpoint, creation would be the evil having forcibly taken over its home. You couldn`t even say it was an evil and destructive force before because apparently there was nothing to destroy or be evil towards.

 

Now I doubt the writers even remotely think about this and just see it as "evol black smoke". It used to be the escaped demons in the Season 2 Finale and the evil Leviathan souls in the Season 6 Finale. This will likely play out exactly the same.

 

Before the Finale Carver said in an interview that the entire landscape of the show would change. I remember laughing heartily at that because for the first goofy standalone they want to do - likely episode 4 - the Darkness won`t even be a blip on the radar screen and the world itself won`t have changed one wit. Post-apocalyptic set-dressing is waaaaayyyyy too expensive for them to do it from here on out.    

[rue721]

I agree with everyone above that ~The Darknesssssss~ will probably only last three episodes, because that's usually how this show rolls. I also agree that The Darkness will probably leave behind some quipping, sexy woman in its wake, who will be the new Big Bad for S11, but whose demise will somehow trigger the Big Bad for the beginning of S12. That's pretty much what happened with killing Abaddon --> unleashes Mark of Cain in S9, and destroying Mark of Cain --> unleashes The Darkness in S10.

 

I'm hoping that the aformentioned "quipping, sexy woman" is Mary Winchester, though (played by Amy Gumenick), because I like her ("her" meaning both young!Mary as a character and AG as an actress) and also because I think that she'd be a relatively interesting female character to (re)introduce. Her relationships the guys would be interesting and I think she's just straight up interesting (she was raised as a hunter, too -- how are her methods different from the Winchesters? how is her knowledge different from theirs?).

 

Plus, I'm interested in her because WHERE IS SHE? Sorry, I know that's a mystery that the show will probably never solve, but DUDE THIS SHOW STARTED WITH THE GUYS LOOKING FOR JOHN, so how come BOTH their parents have now completely vanished, despite the guys now having the ability being to comb all known sectors of the afterlife to find them, and yet that's not a mystery they're aching to solve? If the show is looking for a season-long arc, I vote for "the Winchesters finally look for their damn parents!" :P

 

As for another possibility for the "quipping, sexy antagonist," it would be great imo if they could bring back Adrianne Palicki as Jess (I always love AP, and Jess always sort of "pops" onscreen imo -- she's really only been in like 5 scenes out of 10 years, but she's always so good that it feels like more imo), but I honestly don't think SPN can afford or would be able to schedule AP, given that she's always on some high-profile show or another.

 

Post-apocalyptic set-dressing is waaaaayyyyy too expensive for them to do it from here on out.    

 

It could be a really cheap way to go, if the The Darkness is like The Mist and is basically a gigantic fog that descends on everything, and traps everyone indoors seeking shelter. That would "force" the show into doing a series of bottle episodes.

 

That's my favorite version of how they could handle The Darkness, though -- because I think it could be legitimately creepy, claustrophobic and "horror movie-esque." But I don't think it's an especially *likely* direction for the show to go in, it's just my favorite (and possibly the most practical/cheapest).

[Aeryn13]

 

As for another possibility for the "quipping, sexy antagonist," it would be great imo if they could bring back Adrianne Palicki as Jess (I always love AP, and Jess always sort of "pops" onscreen imo -- she's really only been in like 5 scenes out of 10 years, but she's always so good that it feels like more imo), but I honestly don't think SPN can afford or would be able to schedule AP, given that she's always on some high-profile show or another.

 

I think she renewed her contract for Agents of Shield? Not sure since the planned spin-off with her fell through but I guess she`ll stay on the mothership. Ironically, I love her character there but couldn`t care less about Jess on SPN. I know she wasn`t in much but I really disliked her in the part so I wouldn`t want the character to come back at all.

 

Amy Gumenick, I would be down for but I think it`s unlikely. Just like Eve, the new female quippy Darkness may take Mary`s visage but I think they will cast a new actress, probably unknown but with CW specifications. Hopefully someone who can act. The show CAN cast well (not write but cast) but they have their downfalls. Thinking back on Ruby and Bela, I have seen both Katie Cassidy and Lauren Cohan give good performances, they just couldn`t make these characters work for me. Which to be fair, I`m not sure anyone could have. And second Ruby was a disaster to me onscreen.        

[DittyDotDot]

Oh, see, I was assuming the quippy woman would be the above mentioned Amara:

 

First spoilers leaking out. 

 

http://tvline.com/2015/06/24/supernatural-season-11-spoilers-cast-amara-femme-fatale/

 

I highly doubt the Darkness will take on the form of someone we already know, that's just not the way this show usually rolls, IMO.

[rue721]

I highly doubt the Darkness will take on the form of someone we already know, that's just not the way this show usually rolls, IMO.

 

I doubt it, too, but it's what I wish would happen.

 

In my ideal SPN S11, ~The Darrrrrrkness~ would descend like a giant fog and the guys would be trapped in more and more claustrophobic, creepy spaces (by pursing/fighting old fashioned MotW cases) along with what appears to be (but might not be?) a character they could have interesting relationships with, like Mary and/or Jess. And, also in my ideal version of S11, the season arc would be them trying to find out where their parents even ARE. Maybe not even to rescue them, just to figure that out. Just because I personally think that's an interesting mystery :)

 

But in the actual SPN S11, ~The Darrrrrkness~ is probably going to be some evil force that the guys actively fight by stabbing it and casting spells on it and stuff, and in episode 3 or 4 or so, it'll probably be pushed into the background to make way for the season's longer-term Big Bad. That Big Bad will probably take the form of a quippy, antagonistic woman who is mostly "interesting" because she's "fuckable-but-evil." Though thankfully, the acting/actors on this show are usually really good, so the quippy, antagonistic woman will probably still be pretty fun and even likable (a la Abaddon or Rowena).

Edited June 29, 2015 by rue721

[DittyDotDot]

See, I don't think the Darkness will be wrapped up in a few episodes, but will be the season's big bad in the form of this quippy woman. I'm sure it'll be on the back burner when it suits them--just like the Levis were in S7--but I'm thinking they'll get at least a half season out of it, if not a whole one.

 

I don't think it will make any noticeable difference to the landscape of the show though. Didn't change the landscape of the show when the demons were let out of the hell gate. Nor did anything change when the Levis were freed or when the angels fell. Sure, there were references to "weird" things happening, but for the most part everyone went on living their lives and Sam and Dean still drove around the country hunting randoms; which is what I fully expect to happen this season too. That's kinda one of the main themes of the show; the population at large is ignorant of what's out there in the shadows.

[rue721]

Usually, it seems to me that this show likes to have the season-long, interacts-a-lot-with-the-guys antagonist be the flunky of the "terrifying"-but-not-often-onscreen Big Bad. So I think that The Darkness itself is liable to get offscreen pretty fast, but then its flunky (or possibly, the flunky for some other BIG SCARY THING) is going to show up and irritate/manipulate the guys all season. For S11, it sounds like that flunky is going to be Amara, though who knows. (For S10, that flunky was the Mark imo).

 

If they hew to the usual pattern, I think it's likely that, over the course of the season, one -- but not both! -- of the brothers will probably "work" with the flunky. That'll lead to all kinds of "secrets and lies" and drive a wedge between the brothers. But they'll ultimately reunite by killing the flunky together. But then, by killing the flunky, an "even worse" Big Bad will be unleashed (cliffhanger for S12!).

 

It's not so much that I dislike the "flunky" pattern -- I don't. But in my ideal version of that same story, the flunky would be something/someone with a real (emotional) tie to the guys. In reality, it'll probably just be some new thing/character that the writers dreamed up during hiatus, but I think it would be better if it was something/someone the guys already knew and cared about -- and that was close enough to them for their struggles with it to give some insight into their characterization.

 

It seems to me that usually, the guys' relationship with the flunky is really only "complex" because they hate it because it's bad, but love it because it makes them feel powerful. But that's beginning to feel a bit stale imo. I would think that the guys each care about SOMETHING more than just feeling powerful, anyway. So I think that what the flunky could offer that could tempt them could be something different this time around. But if the flunky is just some new character, it probably won't be.

 

Another thing I dislike about the idea of the flunky or even the Big Bad being something new is that it seems like the writers are working against the show being so long-in-the-tooth instead of with that. There's a ton of history for the writers to mine at this point, so I wish they would go ahead and mine it! That's an opportunity that other shows don't have, but SPN does. I wish that SPN would play to its strengths rather than to its weaknesses. Oh well, not to complain about things that haven't even happened yet LOL

[catrox14]

I've been thinking the Darkness since it's amoral is like soulless Sam. I wonder if it will be more that it affects the humans and their morality more so than being a physical thing.

Maybe we get to live in "The End" because unleashing the Darkness becomes Croatoan War 2.0 and I would be so down for that. And if that set is around they could redress it.

[7kstar]

They will use the first 3 to set it up and then it goes away to return if the way they did is a hit.  I could also see the big bad being spread out over several actors to make it easier to do budget wise.

 

Would I love it if they mined from their own show's history, of course I would.  But since I like that idea, you can scratch it off the list.  I'm not a horror fan so I don't know what is the latest way they could mock some movie.  I just figured it was time for a season 6 or 7 reboot.

 

Now what if Sam and/or Dean don't know each other but have been taken over by one of the darkness...Way too early to tell since I doubt the writers even know what they are doing yet.