Spoilers With Speculation

AwesomO4000 · April 3, 2015

I think this is just one episode, though. No idea why the promo monkeys highlighted it as such - I`ve hated more than once what they put out for Dean`s character but then the episode wasn`t quite like it - but I think it will just be an honest mistake.

What I hope for is some Indiana Jones-esque sequence where they have to work their way through an alarm system solving riddles and stuff. Like the end of Last Crusade. You can make both characters competent in a scenario like this and Robert Berens is a writer I would at least say that isn`t a completely moot possibility.

This is a nice thought, but I'm thinking that because I predicted something like this was going to happen, it's not just a coincidence or an only-effects-one-episode thing. As you say above, it looks like the Book of the Dead doesn't work since Sam is looking for something else still, so the question becomes what happens with the Book of the Dead, is it bad (Rowena bad even), and is Sam recklessly trying to make it right? I'm not saying it isn't an honest mistake, but that doesn't matter. It's a stupid mistake and a rookie move for Sam to open the box without finding out all about it first.

It won't matter how "competent" Sam is in getting them out of the mess - that he caused - if the damage is already done, and I think SueB is probably right here:

An idea just occurred to me after reading the Werther Project description and twigging of frustration expressed in All Seasons regarding the lying. What if Sam and Dean 'have it out' over the events of this episode. Maybe Dean uses some demonic like power to get them out of the mess. Then Dean would have caught Sam going to extremes and Sam would catch Dean being kinda non-human.

[Emphasis mine] This is likely what's going to happen, and would explain the "Can Dean save Sam" description. Speculation: Something Dean has to do to save Sam will start his transformation into a demon again. This will then shift the demon Dean result responsibility at least partially over to Sam, and then writers can then explore a more "evil Dean" without it really being his fault, because he had no choice if he wanted to save Sam.

And the reason I think this is what's going to happen is because of the primrose path - as I think SueB called it - that has been set up. We've been wondering why Dean has had the attitude of not wanting to keep looking but just do what good he can do with the time left, and I think it is all going to go to this being why... i.e. that ultimately the "poking the bear" in trying to find a "cure" is going to be shown as the main reason why Dean becomes a demon again.

And I agree, rue721: why should we care what Bobby thinks? Well likely we shouldn't except for I think that it is a writers' indicator / foreshadowing that bad things are coming from not following his advice. As I said, it somewhat reminds me of Pamela's words in season 4. Like Bobby - even though she was a psychic - she likely didn't know the whole story either and her opinion shouldn't really matter as much, but it was used to point a sign towards "This is a bad idea! This is going to bite you in the ass later!" so that when Sam didn't listen to it, there wouldn't be any doubt for us as viewers that he made the wrong decision despite all the warnings.

I think this is all leading to the same thing. They are telling us that others are telling Sam "don't look for a cure" and "don't hide it from Dean" so that when Sam does the opposite of that advice, there will be no doubt when it blows up in his face that he is responsible for the bad that will likely come from it. Otherwise it would seem odd - to me anyway - that they are stressing this so much through Dean and now Bobby. I would say that maybe it's going to be as SueB suggested that there is a chance for an 11th hour surprise and this gets turned around, but since that's not happened before - see season 4 - I'm thinking not.

Needless to say, if this happens, those who want demon Dean back will be thrilled, but I'll be pissed beyond all reason at the sad parody of a character that that turn of events would turn Sam into. Because could there be anything as pathetic as trying to save Dean only to screw it up and be the cause of his turning back into a demon? Oh yeah, trying to do do something to stop the apocalypse and instead causing it - and if things happen the way I think things are going to happen, Sam will end up doing both, and become one of the biggest screw ups ever - at least for a character who is supposed to be a hero of the story anyway.

I think I need a drink.

Aeryn13 · April 3, 2015

I`m not sure Dean is going to use powers in that episode. They didn`t even give him ones while he was a demon - other than eye-flashing and that brief "oh, look, my cheek heals" - so I think they will never, ever, ever in the history of time give him powers.

Also, I can`t see him getting to be a demon again. I mean, the show is redundant but truly THAT redundant? Dean already got the MOC last year and Season 9 played with the "oh, what will it do to him", to ultimately answer that with "demondom" and then they proceeded to waste the hell out of it. But they did it, so for me it is simply too late to go back again. It also was the cliffhanger last Season so what would they expect this year? Because this time people will be forewarned that nothing will happen with it.

After the stupid cure, they already went back to the exact same place we were in Season 9 with the "oh, what will the MOC do to him" and to conclude it with the exact same ending they did in Season 9 would be THE actual worst storytelling known to man. The story just needs to go to another place now. Any other place than Dean becomes a demon again. Maybe they`ll use Lucifer somehow after all, maybe Death comes back in, maybe they`ll use angelic grace and maybe Dean will transform into someone/something else, lose his memories, get possessed yada yada.

catrox14 · April 3, 2015

Gods forgive me but I'm quoting Donald Rumsfeld here.....

I don't hold unknown unknowns against characters. I don't think of them as being stupid because of the unknown unknowns. If Sam makes risky choice based on known knowns and still goes ahead then yes, that's stupid. If he makes a choice on the known unknowns...like colluding with Ruby I will be less forgiving. But if he makes choices based on unknown unknowns then no he isn't stupid especially if Dean's life is in the balance.

I mean, sheesh, Dean made the biggest mistake in the history of the show when he sold his soul because he broke the first seal which was an unknown unknown. IF he never sold his soul, that unknown unknown stays....well...unknown. In much the same way, Sam didn't know that Ruby was playing him so that was an unknown unknown. But Sam colluding with a demon was likely to not end well so to me Sam made a choice based on an known unknown and that was not a good thing. But in the end Sam was still a hero and he's still a hero. And will not hold a choice of unknown unknowns that yields a bad result against him.

Demented Daisy · April 3, 2015

I just watched the promo again and I can't believe I missed it -- Dean said they have to destroy the book!

Easy. Basilisk fang. Charlie (and maybe Sam) should know that. ;-)

AwesomO4000 · April 3, 2015

Gods forgive me but I'm quoting Donald Rumsfeld here.....

Hee. No I agree that Sam is still a hero. I am saying that if things happen the way I am dreading they will - and I sure hope not. I hope that Aeryn13 is correct on that one - it would make Sam a pretty big screw up for one of the heroes of a story. I mean it would seem that he shouldn't, but that's what most of us thought about Ruby also: that surely Sam would know that she was playing him and that he shouldn't trust that she was being at least somewhat straight with him, but nope he didn't and yes, he did (to an extent).

I also agree with you about unknown unknowns, but this does not sound like one of those things. They know something about Magnus. Especially that he had a bunker type house warded and protected out the wazoo, so - and I know we don't have all of the details yet, but - if Sam just goes opening up that box without a bunch of tests first, this would not count for me as an unknown unknown. They do know something about Magnus, and everything they know says that whatever that box is, it's likely dangerous. I mean, the guy literally collected monsters, is Sam expecting harmless, warm fuzzies * to come out of a box Magnus collected? And if he knows it might be dangerous, but opens it anyway because he's willing to take the chance it might help Dean, then for me that would fall into the "colluding with a demon" type category of a known unknown.

But you may be correct in that all indications may point to it being benign and so the result would be entirely unexpected, even if to me that seems unlikely at the moment. Of course - again we don't know the details, but - the screenshot of Sam bringing the Book of the Dead, unprotected, to talk to Rowena - a powerful, and someone he knows (I think - I'm forgetting some of the details of "Girls, Girls, Girls") is an immoral and evil witch (that woman died in front of him because of her after all), and even if not and he just thinks he's meeting with a regular person, still... is not exactly showing hints that Sam is using his A game here. My brain hurts from trying to think of scenarios where that screencap is not implying the dumbest idea ever. So what are these spoilers trying to tell me about Sam? My mind boggles.

(* Kid reference from the 70s.)

I`m not sure Dean is going to use powers in that episode. They didn`t even give him ones while he was a demon - other than eye-flashing and that brief "oh, look, my cheek heals" - so I think they will never, ever, ever in the history of time give him powers.

I think for me, it's more of that with this verse, it seems that for humans powers = bad. There has been only one small exception to that so far that I'm remembering, and even then there were morally questionable behaviors (Andy). Psychics might be the only ones somewhat different, but we've seen "evil" psychics also ("The Mentalists"). This verse doesn't have good witches. When Sam used his powers, he got out of control, reckless, he did terrible things, and bad things happened (even in "Swan Song" in my opinion, but that's a long discussion, so bleep blorp past that to say imo Sam needed extra help in order to use the powers, otherwise huge bad would have occured.) So this is why I think they didn't give Dean many powers or they gave him cool but benign ones like healing himself and teleporting the blade to himself or defensive ones like not getting killed by Rowena (which is similar to Sam not getting killed by Lilith - they are both passive powers). When Sam received his visions, that too was passive. It was when he started doing the active stuff that Sam started going dark. I'm not remembering off the top of my head very many characters who had power who weren't or didn't go "evil" at some point actually, with the exception of Jesse, the antichrist, and even his powers were accidentally "bad."

So for me, I think it's more of a function of generally powers = bad or evil in this verse, and they weren't really committed to taking Dean there, even if he was a demon. That was my feeling on it anyway.

Edited to add:

I just watched the promo again and I can't believe I missed it -- Dean said they have to destroy the book!

Oh crap. And so Sam's not going to destroy the book, and hopefully Rowena isn't going to get it because Sam doesn't destroy the book... I'm just going to sit here in my "going crazy" corner until I know that does not happen, because I don't want another endless round of subtle (or not so subtle) "I told you so" digs to haunt Sam for the rest of the series. He has enough of those already, thank you very much, writers.

Edited April 3, 2015 by AwesomO4000

catrox14 · April 3, 2015

Oh crap. And so Sam's not going to destroy the book, and hopefully Rowena isn't going to get it because Sam doesn't destroy the book... I'm just going to sit here in my "going crazy" corner until I know that does not happen, because I don't want another endless round of subtle (or not so subtle) "I told you so" digs to haunt Sam for the rest of the series. He has enough of those already, thank you very much, writers.

If it makes you feel any better, Dean also commanded Sam destroy the book in the last episode. Sam ignored that directive and figured out to burn the painting instead. So....maybe Sam will ignore it and find something useful?

oooohhhh....maybe demon!Dean is lurking and wants Sam to destroy the book to keep the Mark....

DittyDotDot · April 3, 2015

Heh, are you suggesting Demon Dean is a book burner in general, catrox. What does he have against the written word anyway? Sheesh...demons can be pains in the asses, can't they?

7kstar · April 5, 2015

If you haven't seen the extended promo, it's showing up on facebook's Supernatural Page.

This is the best I can do for the link, but it looks like Dean is going really dark, and for a moment I thought he was choking Sam, but another look I think it is someone else. But it gives a few more details about the book. I'm very torn...since I liked last weeks, and this one looks really interesting...I'm hoping I won't self destruct if the ep falls apart. On the Jensen/Dean scale he is looking really hot....http://www.facebook.com/Supernatural?fref=nf

ETA: Nevermind it's posted on page 47...I just found it...can they kill Crowley's mom NOW! Please????

Edited April 5, 2015 by 7kstar

catrox14 · April 5, 2015

I'm pissed off that we had such a great episode this week and another inexplicable fucking mini-Hellatus is here. Stupid scheduling is stupid

catrox14 · April 5, 2015

So because I'm demon!Dean trash now ...(gods how did this even happen :( )....

I'm obsessed with proving that demon!Dean has been lurking all along and I keep coming back to this right here. It's after Sam supposedly cures him and I swear it's almost like demon!Dean is making a choice to recede. I dunno. Like I said I'm demon!Dean trash.

7kstar · April 5, 2015

So because I'm demon!Dean trash now ...(gods how did this even happen :( )....

I'm obsessed with proving that demon!Dean has been lurking all along and I keep coming back to this right here. It's after Sam supposedly cures him and I swear it's almost like demon!Dean is making a choice to recede. I dunno. Like I said I'm demon!Dean trash.

Another ep, is the one where Dean kills everyone and Sam yells tell me you had to do this to save your lifes. I thought at the time, that line sounds like Demon Dean. I don't remember the exact line, but Dean just been hit over the head and plainly says you don't want to do this.

So if they do go there, I believe we can say the layers have been put in place. Plus his hair is getting longer, so call that exhibit B.

SueB · April 7, 2015

Well Jim Micheals just confirmed they are tech scouting the last episode and it's 10.21 (https://twitter.com/TheJimMichaels). This episode is titled Dark Dynasty (multiple sources:http://stvplus.com/show/154/Supernatural#episodes) And we know from Jensen's M&G report by Lynn at Fangasm, that they had to rearrange their shooting schedule to accommodate Felicia Day. I'd say it's a likely option that Felicia is in this episode. Making that THREE this year. Now I like Charlie and I like the idea of everyone getting in on helping Dean. "Dark Dynasty" sounded witchy to me but with the Grand Coven being decimated, I don't know what to expect.

catrox14 · April 7, 2015

Gods I'm sick of Charlie. Seriously. Especially that she just takes over episodes and isn't there just in support of the boys anymore. Bleh. Just give her the damn spinoff and be done with it.

Goldmoon · April 7, 2015

Gods I'm sick of Charlie. Seriously. Especially that she just takes over episodes and isn't there just in support of the boys anymore. Bleh. Just give her the damn spinoff and be done with it.

Good idea. If they keep going like this she will be in every ep in Season 11. Just no.

Aeryn13 · April 7, 2015

This episode is titled Dark Dynasty (multiple sources:http://stvplus.com/s...atural#episodes)%C2'> And we know from Jensen's M&G report by Lynn at Fangasm, that they had to rearrange their shooting schedule to accommodate Felicia Day. I'd say it's a likely option that Felicia is in this episode. Making that THREE this year. Now I like Charlie and I like the idea of everyone getting in on helping Dean. "Dark Dynasty" sounded witchy to me but with the Grand Coven being decimated, I don't know what to expect.

The good news is - if they keep to the structure from the last few years - that would only put her in the most likely expositionary episode of a loosely three-part Finale. Leaving the more important episodes 22 and especially 23 Charlie-free.

Biggest problem with the character is actually Robbie Thompson. He should simply be banned from writing her because not only does she take over the episodes but he has pretty much admitted that he is writing himself in through her. So it becomes a story where HE/she is the hero and everything revolves around HIM/her and HE/she saves the day and so on. That is okay for twelve year old fangirls writing their first fanfiction but not okay for a paid writer. I might be interested in the character if a writer tackles her who doesn`t use it as frankly a huge masturbatory session.

In the latest M&G from SeaCon? Jensen expressed excitement about the Finale so I do hope that spells out good things for Dean. Well, not so much good as interesting things. What Jensen IMO really likes is the badass stuff so there should be that at least. And I wouldn`t count out Dean being an "other" for a change. Not like Demon!Dean who wasn`t a completely different entity but actually other. Because he has never really gotten that, IMO Jensen has been diplomatic about answering those questions so as to not appear whiny or too disappointed but way back when he appeared excited for the possibility. So maybe it is finally here.

Initially I figured Dark Dynasty would refer to more Crowley and Rowena.

SueB · April 7, 2015

I'm going to hazard a guess that if Charlie is in 3 episodes this year, this 3rd episode won't be Charlie centric.

catrox14 · April 7, 2015

I'm going to hazard a guess that if Charlie is in 3 episodes this year, this 3rd episode won't be Charlie centric.

You are more optimistic than me :)

SueB · April 7, 2015

And THIS puts Rowena in the finale of S10. They're kinda adorable.

https://twitter.com/mishacollins/status/585583187721588738

rue721 · April 8, 2015

Rowena has really grown on me! I think it's Ruth Connell rather than the character. There were some scenes in this past episode where she was just so adorable I couldn't help but root for her. Like when Dean was fighting those college kids and she looked like the cat who ate the canary as she took off her cloak. Or when she got back to the Warehouse!Hell and tried to throw her cloak off in a huff but it was slightly too heavy for her and it didn't really get thrown anywhere. Idk, I like her facial expressions.

Anyway, so I've gotten to the point that I want her to stick around. Her backstory is intriguing. And if I'm completely honest, she's had a place in my heart ever since she told Crowley that of course she didn't know who his father was, who can keep track during a Magic!Orgy JEEZ. That cracked me up.

catrox14 · April 8, 2015

And THIS puts Rowena in the finale of S10. They're kinda adorable.

https://twitter.com/mishacollins/status/585583187721588738

Why do you say that? Aren't they filming 10.21 right now?

kimrey · April 8, 2015

Pretty sure they're still filming the finale. Episodes usually take 8 days and they didn't start filming 10.23 until last Monday. I'm not sure they filmed Friday and/or Monday (Jared and Jensen were in Texas Friday night through yesterday). So I'm thinking that everyone had at least one of those days off for the holiday. So they probably have one or two more days left to film the finale.

As for Charlie, I think if she only had a small role in 10.21 they wouldn't have had to completely rearrange filming for Felicia, unfortunately.

Edited April 8, 2015 by kimrey

SueB · April 8, 2015

They were just tech scouting yesterday for 10.21 so I'm pretty sure this is from the finale.

SueB · April 8, 2015

Somebody needs to take away Misha's cell phone.

https://twitter.com/mishacollins/status/585887230729723905/photo/1

catrox14 · April 8, 2015

LOL he's gone a little bit crazy.

It sure makes me wonder about this pic and the pic Jensen sent a bit ago with someone else's blood all over him.

SueB · April 8, 2015

Goodbye Stranger parallel?

catrox14 · April 8, 2015

Goodbye Stranger parallel?

I could see that. Looking at Misha's face, it looks like he's been tortured with an angel blade :(. The blood looks very specific and not like splattered or what have you. I'm gonna be really upset if Dean tortures Cas :(. I will be happier if it's that Crowley is torturing Cas and Dean saves Cas....but then accidentally kills him in the ensuing struggle.

kimrey · April 9, 2015

So many things!

Episode 20 description. Sounds terrible. I'm sorry, but this is the end of the season. Why am I supposed to care about Claire or her drama? I don't. I don't have any need to see her again. Also interesting that Robbie Thompson wrote this one, but it doesn't looks like Charlie is in it. Jim Michaels said on twitter that Brad and Euginie wrote 10.21.

ANGEL HEART

CLAIRE NOVACK RETURNS--When Claire Novak(guest star Kathryn Love Newton) gets a lead on her mother, Amelia(guest star Leslie Hailey) who has been missing for years, Castiel(Misha Collins) asks Sam(Jared Padalecki) and Dean(Jensen Ackles) to help her. Castiel feels guilty for what he did to the Novack family and wants to make amends by reuniting Claire with her mom. However, when they find out what took Amelia, they realize there is a chance Claire may not get her happy ending. Steve Boyum directed this episode written by Robbie Thompson(1020).

Pictures from 10.19 featuring the return of Benny and Sam and Rowena working together.

http://www.spoilertv.com/2015/04/supernatural-episode-1019-werther.html

...and a sneak peak of next week.

http://www.spoilertv.com/2015/04/supernatural-episode-1018-book-of_9.html

I was totally expecting Charlie to grab that book from Sam and know EXACTLY what it said immediately. I can't believe that didn't happen, actually. But of course she could figure out it was in code before Sam could. Because she's just that special.

Edited April 9, 2015 by kimrey

Demented Daisy · April 9, 2015

I clearly gave TPTB too much credit.

Aeryn13 · April 10, 2015

I was totally expecting Charlie to grab that book from Sam and know EXACTLY what it said immediately.

Hahaha, me too. I thought any moment she would declare that this is written in the ancient tongue of Oz, something she would of course be fluent in now.

Methinks the translation has to be drawn out for plot reasons, otherwise she WOULD have known what it said immediately.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Aeryn13

SueB · April 10, 2015

I clearly gave TPTB too much credit.

Is there something in particular irritating?

In other thoughts:

BENNY BENNY BENNY BENNY BENNY BENNY .... I'll just be over here fangirling for a moment. How I love Benny. And he and Dean are in Purgatory? And Sam *facepalm*, what ARE you doing. You are too smart to let Rowena play you. Now going back to the Werther Project Episode description:

When Sam opens the box, he puts both his and Dean’s life in danger.

Doesn't it seem odd that Sam and Dean in the pictures are separate? But then look at the front of the box...it's got "gears" behind the MOL symbol. It sure feels like a clock. Hanging my buttcheeks way out...time-travel? Three years in the past? But that would leave Sam with the dog and the vet. And who is the young girl (quick! someone write a crack-fic about Sam turning into a blonde teenage girl...PLEASE). Also of note, this does not seem to be IN the MOL bunker, what with all the spider-webs old house feel.

I must admit, I'm pretty excited about upcoming episodes. The Angel Heart setup seems boring but I'm going to bet we get a good epsiode.

And where the hell is Metatron?

Edited April 10, 2015 by SueB

Demented Daisy · April 10, 2015

Is there something in particular irritating?

Perhaps I'm assuming too much, but how does Dean get into Purgatory? I fear we'll be revisiting the rogue Reaper idea. Yay. And what's he doing in Purgatory? Looking for that portal into Hell, perhaps?

Sigh. I expected them to come up with something original. I concede I could be wrong, though.

catrox14 · April 10, 2015

WHY oh WHY did they let the Benny spoiler get out. That is so awesome. And Jensen you little sneak. It was a pic of Purgatory. And YES BENNNNNYYYY.

If time travel is involved then maybe Gavin being alive finally will affect the universe. But I will say this....if they do time travel and erase all of what has happened to Dean....well I'm gonna be pissed. Because that will be a waste of his storyline.

Dean can get into Purgatory through the human portal or the Hell portal. Crowley can take him into Hell and maybe since Dean might still be demony, he can get into Hell himself.

Edited April 10, 2015 by catrox14

SueB · April 10, 2015

Perhaps I'm assuming too much, but how does Dean get into Purgatory? I fear we'll be revisiting the rogue Reaper idea. Yay. And what's he doing in Purgatory? Looking for that portal into Hell, perhaps?

Sigh. I expected them to come up with something original. I concede I could be wrong, though.

I'm thinking Sam fiddling with that box did something. Which, Magnus being able to screw around with a portal to monsterland doesn't completely shock me. He was really powerful**.

BTW, Dean's NOT wearing the leather jacket from Purgatory, so they didn't do a Quantum Leap thing.

** Hey! It's potentially a literal use of the phrase "a wizard did it"!

~~ETA: Boogertron in the house for "The Prisoner" (10.22 I think)~~ it was NOT for Supernatural, it was a throw-back-thursday for the TV show. (update 9pmish Eastern)

ETA#2: Apparently Julian Richings (Death) was in Vancouver this week (tumblr tip, trouble finding original source, confirmed via Julian's twitter). No guarantee he's on set but that would so ROCK. Yes, I would want him to tell off Dean. IDEC. I think Death likes Dean and would do so only if it he felt Dean was worth it.

Edited April 10, 2015 by SueB

7kstar · April 10, 2015

excited to see Benny and I don't know but it looks like charlie's hurt and having trouble with one of her arms.

Loved Dean's line to the effect come on already, you two solve it...NOW.

no clue who the girl is, unless it is a new Claire? But I do think I've seen her before, but no clue when...

catrox14 · April 10, 2015

I don't think we are going to get a time reset.

I wonder if Dean is going to decide to kill himself because he doesn't see any other way out. Maybe he decides that living in Purgatory is the only place he can go where he can fulfill his bloodlust all the time and not hurt anyone he loves or hurt humans.

Edited April 10, 2015 by catrox14

SueB · April 10, 2015

Personally I think Purgatory is a reasonable solution for him. He'd be a BadAss killer, running around hunting Leviathan and Monsters with reckless abandon.

catrox14 · April 10, 2015

The problem is that Sam IMO will never let him stay in Purgatory. Maybe that will be the parallel to season 9. That Sam makes a decision to save Dean in a way that Dean would not approve. I don't think de-demoning Dean quite counts the same.

Maybe Dean goes to Purgatory on his own. Sam decides to use the "What's in the boooox" box to get him out of Purgatory

Edited April 10, 2015 by catrox14

rue721 · April 10, 2015

LOL this is like literally everything I *don't* want to see on Supernatural.

Benny, Claire and Charlie. Could not give less of a shit about any of them.

Sam and Dean separated, not working as a team.

Dean's not even on earth FFS.

kimrey · April 10, 2015

Yeah. The promo pictures kinda downgraded my excitement level for 10.19. The episode description made it sound very Sam and Dean focused, with Dean working to save Sam from something he accidently got into. But now I see Dean in Purgatory with Benny and Sam at the box with Rowena. I don't even know.

My guess is Sam gives Rowena the book they find in 10.18. In exchange she shows him where this box that might have the cure for Dean is. She probably double crosses him because she's evil and she knows about the trap that was set up and leaves Sam. Sam tells Dean he's in trouble. This somehow leads to Dean having to go to purgatory to do something to save him? Hopefully they're not split up the whole episode. I've had enough of that.

With the promise of Claire and Charlie episodes wasting time, I really hope 10.22 and 10.23 are amazing.

Edited April 10, 2015 by kimrey

oliverwendell · April 10, 2015

BENNY!!! So much love for this episode already.

No idea why Dean's in Purgatory, but I could see him deciding that's the best place for him to be with the Mark.

The merest whiff of the possibility of Death making an appearance also has me in a dither. I would love for him to have some kind words for Dean (a la the "Well played" that Sam got), but I'm not getting my hopes up. Mostly because I don't think Death would ever say that Dean played things well. He thinks Dean is a giant pain in his ass, and he isn't wrong. But I'll still be glad to see him. Dean/Death scenes always rock, IMO.

catrox14 · April 10, 2015

Death would never say "well played" to anyone. Just one of the things about 9.1 that I freaking hate

7kstar · April 10, 2015

Funny I had a story Idea in Season 9 with Dean running away to Purgatory and Benny trying to get Dean home cause he's not happy that's Dean is back. He wants Dean to have a happy ending.

But I do love Benny and I wouldn't mind seeing Death. Of course it would be fun not to see Death stomping on Dean's heart but maybe they go eat at one of his favs that he hasn't gone to in a while and he drags Dean along.

So I'm in my usual spot, excited but hoping I won't hate it. I always find something I like about any ep, I just do. I just hope it has more I like that I don't. Of course I do like Charlie...so it does have some positive hopeful.

The best part might be when Cas hits Metatron...

AwesomO4000 · April 10, 2015

Personally I think Purgatory is a reasonable solution for him. He'd be a BadAss killer, running around hunting Leviathan and Monsters with reckless abandon.

Suddenly my "Dean takes vacations in Purgatory" thing from a couple of weeks back doesn't sound so crazy after all.

The problem is that Sam IMO will never let him stay in Purgatory. Maybe that will be the parallel to season 9. That Sam makes a decision to save Dean in a way that Dean would not approve. I don't think de-demoning Dean quite counts the same.

Maybe Dean goes to Purgatory on his own. Sam decides to use the "What's in the boooox" box to get him out of Purgatory

I have an awful feeling that this is what's going to happen, catrox14. But because this show just can't seem to let Sam do anything right, instead of letting an angel who he thought was good work with him, Sam has to work with an obviously shady and evil witch and cause something awful to happen. I will be so angry if somehow something awful has to happen to Benny in order for Sam to be "saved" from his mistake. That will for sure mean that a large portion of fandom will hate Sam, not to mention that he'll be a huge screw up again. I will happily admit I'm totally wrong if this doesn't happen, but if it does, I'm going to take it as at least some kind of sign that the current writing team just really doesn't like Sam all that much, because I couldn't imagine them doing much worse to him at this point if this is what does happen... I think he'd be better off killing a cute little puppy than be the cause of something awful happening to Benny and doing something to take away Dean's agency like he was angry at Dean for doing.

I'll also wonder about if, as you said, that Jensen was excited for the finale and he probably wouldn't be if they were going to do something awful to / with Sam's character, because all these pieces are certainly pointing to that from what I can see here. And I will hate it so much. Even more so if Charlie also has to save him, because then Sam will be just that pathetic.

And is this going to be Sam's "big story" at the end of the season? That he's potentially a hypocrite and so stupid as to trust Rowena?

Edited to say: Sorry for sounding so negative here. Here is to hoping that I am soooo wrong about this, because I Do. Not. Want. Just for once can Sam not fail awfully at trying to help / save Dean? Please?

Edited April 10, 2015 by AwesomO4000

catrox14 · April 10, 2015

Benny was sacrificed once already to save Sam. I don't think TPTB will do that again.

I'm actually really intrigued now because there is a plethora of double crosses and schemes to be had here amongst the 5 players here: Dean, Sam, Crowley, Cas and Rowena.

Rowena is Crowley's mother after all. Crowley's "ethos" with deal making that is 'honest' as long as it gives him what he wants in the long might be an inherited trait or learned when he was a wee boy.

Rowena and Sam:

--Rowena might actually be doing something that she thinks will actually work. She seems pretty sure that it's a curse, which I think is wrong. I think it's more than a curse...but if she thinks it's a curse then it's a juxtaposition with Crowley and the MoC turning Dean into a demon. Crowley claims he didn't REALLY know 100% that it would work but he took a chance. So she could be acting in good-ish faith but is just plain wrong.

--Rowena might have made a deal with Sam to give him the solution as long as Sam kills Crowley because she's going to want vengeance on Crowley for throwing her out.

-- Sam makes a deal to give Rowena some of the Men of Letters knowledge in exchange for the cure for Dean which is a legit thing.

--Sam gets played by Rowena because she gets some of the knowledge but it's not actually a curse that can be cured by a spell.

--Sam plays Rowena by telling her he'll give her the spells in exchange for the cure, but as soon as he gets the cure, he kills Rowena

Rowena and Dean:

--Rowena might have struck a deal with Dean before leaving that bar, because we never really actually saw what deal they made. She might have promised Dean to spare those college guys and offer him the cure if Dean kills Crowley. She won't tell him how to find the cure and she'll have to work with Sam to find the cure and Dean may be unawares if he's off in Purgatory.

--Dean has given up and gone to Purgatory (see my other theory upthread)

That's just for starters.

There could be alliances between Crowley and Cas, who knows where the FB is and still owes Crowley for the stolen grace. Or between Dean and Crowley/Sam and Crowley/ Rowena and Cas or Crowley and everyone could double cross everyone else.

This is gonna be SO MUCH FUN ( I hope)

Edited April 10, 2015 by catrox14

AwesomO4000 · April 10, 2015

Benny was sacrificed once already to save Sam. I don't think TPTB will do that again.

This part at least makes me feel a little better.

I'm not so sure about a lot of the rest.

Who among the players who knows Rowena and are in their right mind would trust her concerning anything?

catrox14 · April 10, 2015

Who among the players who knows Rowena and are in their right mind would trust her concerning anything?

The only one that really knows Rowena is Crowley. None of them have any reason to trust her but they don't have any reason to not trust her either. Dean was willing to deal with Crowley when he didn't know him but he had the Colt which was supposed to be able to kill Lucifer. IIRC Crowley didn't know that it wouldn't actually work. Sam might be willing to take a chance with Rowena if she makes him a good enough offer. The devil you know-ish?

Aeryn13 · April 10, 2015

ETA#2: Apparently Julian Richings (Death) was in Vancouver this week (tumblr tip, trouble finding original source, confirmed via Julian's twitter). No guarantee he's on set but that would so ROCK. Yes, I would want him to tell off Dean. IDEC. I think Death likes Dean and would do so only if it he felt Dean was worth it.

I`m very wary of Death now because they could use it to make that stupid scene in the Season 9 Opener explicit. Sure, Death tells everyone else, especially Dean, they are unimportant vermin but for SAM, he comes personally because it`s such an honour and proceeds to be an ass-kiss. Words could not describe how much I would hate it if they said this was real and then have him tell Dean once more what a loser and screw up he is.

It is scenes like that, the exact, gleeful justaposition of "hero" and "zero" that have turned me off Sam`s character and convinced the writers have no love for Dean`s. They did the same with the "your hell is gonna make my hell look like Disneyland" stuff. Can you be more obvious?

So in the end, I`d rather Death is not it. It will minimize the chances of ultimate suckitude from Carver. He is writing the Finale, isn`t he?

Wynne88 · April 10, 2015

Maybe the return to purgatory is partially intended to fix the damage done to Sam's character the first time Dean went there and Sam just twiddled his fingers and went on picnics. Nobody liked that or thought it was remotely rationale given the total lack of explanation, so hopefully this time Sam will be more aggressive about doing something. Obviously the story would also have to service the MoC arc, hopefully in a way that make sense. I always liked Benny's character. I won't mind seeing him again.

MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND · April 10, 2015

Death would never say "well played" to anyone. Just one of the things about 9.1 that I freaking hate

Death didn't say that-it was all in Sam's head! Richling confirmed it.

Aeryn13 · April 10, 2015

I think he just said that it is his view on things but that he believes the writers intended for it to be genuine. Which would of course mean the script didn`t clarify it at least for the actor. However, I also believe the writers meant it. It is exactly the kind of bs they do on a regular basis. Which doesn`t mean they wouldn`t go back on it later, taking advantage of the vagueness.

Sign In

Spoilers With Speculation

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

PeterKahlke

devlin

gonzosgirrl

Posted Images

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment