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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
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Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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SueB

SueB

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I am hoping that Jensen is giving us a subtle spoiler by showing the Knight's helmet over his shoulder.

I hope so too. He's kinda naughty that way.

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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catrox14

catrox14

I hope so too. He's kinda naughty that way.

 

He is. He's clever enough with a camera being a director to communicate something here with the framing, much like the picture he tweeted of him in the spot that looks like Purgatory.   I also thought about Ask Jeeves when he was staring into the Knights helmet.  I felt like this was a call back to that.  Now, the sunset thing with Misha is a different story. I don't think that was trying to communicate anything other than a moment of fun. But this one? Different story.

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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

He is. He's clever enough with a camera being a director to communicate something here with the framing, much like the picture he tweeted of him in the spot that looks like Purgatory.   I also thought about Ask Jeeves when he was staring into the Knights helmet.  I felt like this was a call back to that.  Now, the sunset thing with Misha is a different story. I don't think that was trying to communicate anything other than a moment of fun. But this one? Different story.

So ....ummm..science ......yeah, science...dictated that I go back and look to see if there has always been a Knight's helmet in the Bunker.  The answer is yes, there's always been 3.  But...it's a little more interesting than that.  What I determined:

- The 3 helmets are on the top shelf in the right side center arch bookcase (as you face the telescope).  They show up in "Everyone Hates Hitler" when Dean is playing with the scimitar. They were shiny with one facing forward and two in profile.  This is mid-late season 8.  

- Despite many many shots of the bunker, they always manage to NOT show that ONE arch in almost a year and a half.  I thought perhaps because they were shiny and may cause lighting problems or for camera placement purposes.  

- Finally, in 9.23, Do You Believe In Miracles, the three helmets are back. Still shiny, still in the right side center arch.  They look placed slightly differently. Perhaps the outer two are further apart and they don't look like they are definitely in profile.  You can see them immediately as Sam and Cas walk into the main room after leaving Dean in the dungeon.  

- In Season 10 they show up in at least 4 episodes but they are different.  You can first see them in Soul Survivor when Sam gets the keys after Dean escapes.  They are no longer shiny, they are literally different helmets and they are facing forward.  It's hard to make them out.

- They show up again in The Hunter Games, slightly less blurry.  They are fairly evident in There's No Place Like Home when Dean says "no" he's not okay at the very end of the episode.  They show up in the THEN sequence for the next episode.

- Finally, in last night's episode, they are very clear and distinct when Dean comes in accusing Sam of hiding porn.  Still non-shiny, but clearly dull silver/pewter-ish.

 

Interestingly enough, every time they show up, the bookshelves underneath are fully populated.  In the picture with Jensen, the bookshelf is only partially populated.  I think that draws your eye to the blank space and the helmet above. Now they redress that set all the time, so in theory they could just be mid set-dressing.  But really, I think not.

 

I think Jensen has staged that shot (as you suggest catrox), and left the shelf partially populated to give us a clue.  Now, he could be dicking with us.  He's certainly not beyond that.  Giving us a foiler because he knows we'll pick up on the helmet and spend hours doing the science I just did.  Or, he could have let his inner mischief maker out and gave us a legit spoiler.

 

Of all the cast, only Jensen and Jared have enough clout to do that and not get into too much trouble.  And Jensen is much worse than Jared.  

 

So...he's either setting us up with a foiler or he's given us a clue.  I'm going to put this one at 95% probability of NOT being a coincidence.  

Edited by SueB
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catrox14

catrox14

That is some remarkable research SueB.  Thank you for your efforts for...science. 

 

And when I just went back and read the replies to the tweet, surprisingly not very many questions about the helmet.

 

But then it just struck me and now it's not fun anymore. 

 

It was a Happy Birthday to Daneel. He said "love u"  Could the Knight's helmet have been a joke to her about being her Knight in Shining Armor?  

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rue721

rue721

It was a Happy Birthday to Daneel. He said "love u"  Could the Knight's helmet have been a joke to her about being her Knight in Shining Armor?  

 

Awww. That's adorable. Now I kind of hope that *is* what it was.

 

I doubt it, though. Because wouldn't it be sort of conceited to call *yourself* your wife's knight in shining armor? I think the tweet was for Daneel, and the pic's framing to include the helmet is probably an Easter egg for the fans who follow his twitter.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Awww. That's adorable. Now I kind of hope that *is* what it was.

 

I doubt it, though. Because wouldn't it be sort of conceited to call *yourself* your wife's knight in shining armor? I think the tweet was for Daneel, and the pic's framing to include the helmet is probably an Easter egg for the fans who follow his twitter.

 

 

It seemed like a Tweet to explain why he wasn't live tweeting with like ERRYONE else in the episode, and then tacked on the birthday wishes to Daneel.  I don't think it's conceited. Maybe Daneel has called him her Knight in Shining Armor or maybe because he looks like shit( you know for Jensen) it's an inside joke or maybe

 

Or maybe it's "Dean Winchester: The Knight of Hell in Shining Armor" . I need to write that fic.

Edited by catrox14
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rue721

rue721

It seemed like a Tweet to explain why he wasn't live tweeting with like ERRYONE else in the episode, and then tacked on the birthday wishes to Daneel.  I don't think it's conceited. Maybe Daneel has called him her Knight in Shining Armor or maybe because he looks like shit( you know for Jensen) it's an inside joke or maybe

 

Or maybe it's "Dean Winchester: The Knight of Hell in Shining Armor" . I need to write that fic.

 

Idk, it just seems so douchey to be like, "hey, remember that I'm your knight in shining armor even though I'm totally missing your birthday and you're probably already in bed right now, Daneel!" LOL. He doesn't come off as someone who would be like that toward his wife, though who knows. My totally unsubstantiated guess is that he was just doing a normal tweet for fans to make up for not live-tweeting the episode, and put an Easter Egg in it with the framing (per usual for him, seems like) -- but was thinking of his wife at the time because he was exhausted and wanted to be off work and crawling into bed with her, so he gave her a shoutout, too. OMG over-think much? RME at myself, jeez.

 

Actually, maybe the "Easter Egg" is just that the props/background of the photo make it clear that he's in the bunker, *and* he's covered in blood. So I guess something horrible is going to go down there? That can't be good news for somebody in the "inner circle," seeing as they're the only people who are ever there. Maybe he was filming a scene of Cain's prophesy coming true?

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catrox14

catrox14

This is Jensen's hair over the summer during the CW upfronts that he grew out for demon!Dean. I think it looks amazing. I keep looking for signs of this wonderfulness.  I can't believe it..I'm demon!Dean trash. WTF. Damn you Jensen. 

 

 

 

tumblr_ngrb00MJCE1snyfmgo1_500.jpg

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catrox14

catrox14

Idk, it just seems so douchey to be like, "hey, remember that I'm your knight in shining armor even though I'm totally missing your birthday and you're probably already in bed right now, Daneel!" LOL. He doesn't come off as someone who would be like that toward his wife, though who knows. My totally unsubstantiated guess is that he was just doing a normal tweet for fans to make up for not live-tweeting the episode, and put an Easter Egg in it with the framing (per usual for him, seems like) -- but was thinking of his wife at the time because he was exhausted and wanted to be off work and crawling into bed with her, so he gave her a shoutout, too. OMG over-think much? RME at myself, jeez.

 

Actually, maybe the "Easter Egg" is just that the props/background of the photo make it clear that he's in the bunker, *and* he's covered in blood. So I guess something horrible is going to go down there? That can't be good news for somebody in the "inner circle," seeing as they're the only people who are ever there. Maybe he was filming a scene of Cain's prophesy coming true?

 

Given  what I perceive about Jensen based on con videos and interviews and his tweets  is that he has a rather sarcastic sense of humor and he seems to mock himself a lot, so IMO he would be mocking himself if it were a bit about Knight in Shining Armor.

 

But yeah, I think he is dropping a hint. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

Thinking more about Sam here, and given the episode coming up about suicide, is it possible that Sam gets so depressed about not being able to save Dean that he tries to kill himself?  Jensen keeps saying things to get really dark. And Carver says Sam goes on a separate personal journey.  Could that be his journey? And maybe that's also why Jared is promoting the awareness of depression and suicide. 

 

Alternately since the show has not bothered to tell us whether Sam knows that killing Dean will likely turn him back into a demon, maybe Sam does actually kill Dean releasing demon!Dean again. I mean that would be pretty damn dark.

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SueB

SueB

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Tidbits from Lynn at Fangasm give a sense of the "dark" times Dean is going through: https://fangasmthebook.wordpress.com/2015/03/20/meet-and-greet-tidbits-jensen-and-jared-at-vegascon-2015/#comment-24505

 

I find it interesting that he's talking to Carver about it.  Like he's getting a vector check on his approach to make sure he's on target with Jeremy's vision.  I'm glad to see that collaboration.  I'm so impressed with the J's commitment to telling a good story.  Nothing Jensen says surprises me.  I wonder if he knows how much we speculate.  

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catrox14

catrox14

Tidbits from Lynn at Fangasm give a sense of the "dark" times Dean is going through: https://fangasmthebook.wordpress.com/2015/03/20/meet-and-greet-tidbits-jensen-and-jared-at-vegascon-2015/#comment-24505

 

I find it interesting that he's talking to Carver about it.  Like he's getting a vector check on his approach to make sure he's on target with Jeremy's vision.  I'm glad to see that collaboration.  I'm so impressed with the J's commitment to telling a good story.  Nothing Jensen says surprises me.  I wonder if he knows how much we speculate.  

 

 

I think he must get a sense of things from the cons and so forth. And since he's on Twitter now, assuming he even reads any replies, he knows there is a lot of speculation.  He's too smart to not notice.

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rue721

rue721

Cute sneak peek!

 

You're right, SueB, it feels very "back to the fundamentals." That could almost be a scene from S2 or something. Well, except for the aesthetics of it, but meh. At least Sam and Dean's relationship seems relaxed and happy, and I have to say that my interest is piqued by the idea of a religious Catholic 1. killing himself 2. with a candlestick (because I don't even know how you *could* kill yourself with a candlestick?!).

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

(edited)
... and I have to say that my interest is piqued by the idea of a religious Catholic 1. killing himself 2. with a candlestick (because I don't even know how you *could* kill yourself with a candlestick?!).

 

Oh, If you look back to the comments / spoilers on a previous page (page 39), you will likely figure it out. And then you will have the same reaction that I did (which was Ewwww!) If you thought the last episode was gross?... That was nothing * compared to what's being implied here, in my opinion. And again, I think it's a take off on a strange horror-type movie I saw a scene from once (maybe The Cell?) where something similar to what I'm imagining / guessing here happened in a dream sequence in that movie. I haven't seen the clip yet, but knowing the previous spoiler and remembering that scene from the horror movie, let's just say I think the candlestick is likely being used to wrap something around, and that the something should be on the inside rather than where it's likely going to end up. You have been warned - I would not suggest eating or drinking during this episode.

 

* and considering the monster was a bug-adjacent thing, it didn't gross me out at all, actually. I thought it was cool. This coming up on the other hand - I am dreading it.

Edited by AwesomO4000
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

So, my takeaway from that sneak peek is all about the hair. Sam's looks a whole lot better and Dean's hair is longer on top and the sides seem to be growing out. #demondeanlurks

Edited by catrox14
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SueB

SueB

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Hmm the Catholic, with the Candlestick, in the Confessional. And yes, this is going to be a food free episode for me.

I agree on the hair. . The hair is working for me.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

My guess, they read something in Bobby's journal (or something like that) and it's vague so they try to talk to the source.

 

I guess that's probably what Sam and Cass were doing in that preview were they looked like they were doing a seance? I don't know how I feel about this. I mean, I loved Bobby even when I hated him, but every time they bring him back it seems to cheapen his death a little more. Oh, who am I kidding, I'll probably love seeing the old hairball! ;)

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO about Bobby.  Gods, why do they not let him just stay dead. 

 

Jim Beaver's Tweets seem to be in dispute. And I reallllly don't want Bobby back again.

 

Jim Beaver @jumblejim  ·  2h 2 hours ago

I'm coming back to SUPERNATURAL? Why doesn't anyone tell me these things? Cool. Can't wait to see what I do. Hope there's a hot tub scene.
1,055 retweets 1,998 favorites

 

Jim Beaver @jumblejim  ·  2h 2 hours ago

It must be true. @Variety and @LauInLA would never lie. Oh, and I did ADR on the episode today.

 

 

I can't tell if he's being sarcastic or serious

 

Um, Sam. Why aren't you trying to contact Mary and John??

Edited by catrox14
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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

It's definitely true. I exchanged tweets with Laura from Variety tonight (it's late and I'm on my phone). Short answer, she's known since the 200th party he was coming back and sat on it til today (now yesterday because it's late). What surprises me is that they had enough of a notion about the backend of S10 to know they were going to have Bobby's help from Heaven. Then again, msny of us have posited a Supernatural heavenly assist using hunters from Heaven so it could have just been a vague notion. Just like I was sure Charlie was coming back again based on something Robbie said in an interview back at the 200th.

I think they had at least a rough notion of who would be engaged as part of the save Dean plot. Interestly enough, they hadn't locked down Timothy Omundson until around that time ( I believe, I'd have to verify Galavant filming time). The reason I say that is he did a podcast with Winchester Bros at VegasCon and when asked about when he knew, he tells the story of how HE reached out to Robbie when he only had a month left of Galavant filming and told Robbie, 'I'm unemployed in a month, got anything?' Which surprises me because I thought they would have worked the freakin SEASON around the Cain episode based on it's significance. Perhaps they just hadn't got to that part of the process yet. But honestly, Omundson/Beaver/Day are all sufficiently employed/employable that they need to do a little advanced planning I would think. I'd put Osric Chau in that category as well as JDM (who already has a gig lined up).

So...IDK...I guess I'm suggesting they may have had a rough plan for the backend around as early as October but didn't work details out for about a month. Tim's script had to be done in Nov as he filmed in Dec.

Anyway, back to Jim. I would never ask for the source on the exclusive Laura had but I really don't think it was the actor. I'm betting Singer/Carver. Just based on who was talking to press back then.

Complete speculation: I'm going to guess it may be as little as just the seance scene. I personally would love if they had Bobby and Ash ninja their way to the Metatron jail and get him out but that's an awful lot for a dead human soul to pull off. Of course Ash was handy when Micheal was still around and the Angels in Heaven are. It nearly as organized now. So, who knows.

I do know they've been very vague on spoilers for this back-end but the writers are pumped about it.

In other news, Mark is in Vancouver (I'm pretty sure) this week, possibly filming, but Ruth is at home not filming.

Edited because autocorrect stinks.

Edited by SueB
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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)

I can't tell if he's being sarcastic or serious

 

I'm pretty sure he's being coy. Also, in the past, they've tried to keep these things secret, so maybe at first he didn't know he could to talk about it yet. I definitely got sarcasm from the last one, though.

 

I think they had at least a rough notion of who would be engaged as part of the save Dean plot. Interestly enough, they hadn't locked down Timothy Omundson until around that time ( I believe, I'd have to verify Galavant filming time). The reason I say that is he did a podcast with Winchester Bros at VegasCon and when asked about when he knew, he tells the story of how HE reached out to Robbie when he only had a month left of Galavant filming and told Robbie, 'I'm unemployed in a month, got anything?' Which surprises me because I thought they would have worked the freakin SEASON around the Cain episode based on it's significance. Perhaps they just hadn't got to that part of the process yet. But honestly, Omundson/Beaver/Day are all sufficiently employed/employable that they need to do a little advanced planning I would think. I'd put Osric Chau in that category as well as JDM (who already has a gig lined up).

 

[...]

 

In other news, Mark is in Vancouver (I'm pretty sure) this week, possibly filming, but Ruth is at home not filming.

 

I'm actually not surprised they didn't have a plan for Timothy Osmudsen. The way they developed the season didn't feel like they really planned on revisiting Cain, even though it seems like the most obvious thing to do. I totally agree the second half of the season should've been a build up to Cain returning. I think that's part of why the episode really didn't work for me in the end. To me, the MoC storyline doesn't feel like they've really mapped much of it out, but kinda following it wherever it leads. But I feel like they had some definite plans regarding Rowena and the Grand Coven from the start of the season even though they've keep it on the back burner most of the season, so far.

 

So, I'm thinking Bobby isn't tied to the "save Dean plot", but I suspect he's somehow tied to the Rowena plot and that's why they knew they would want Jim Beaver back in October. Plus, Jim is a really busy guy and does lots of guest bits on many different shows (and has a teenage daughter to raise) so I imagine they'd need to lock him in early. Maybe Bobby ran into Rowena before or has dealt with the Grand Coven before. I'm also thinking Bobby probably won't be heavily featured in the episode, but more like how Ash was brought back in Dark Side of the Moon.

 

My spec is Rowena will die before the end of the season. Since Carver took over, they've had a nuisance bad (not necessarily the biggest bad) they kill off by the end of the season. S8, Naomi;  S9, Abaddon. Someone who has been bothering them all season, but isn't really the actual problem in the end. Interesting they all seem to be female, though. Anyway, if they keep to form, Rowena should die by the end of the season. But, hey, I'm holding out hope they'll surprise me in the end.

Edited by DittyDotDot
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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

ITA. Rowena should be toast by the end of the season.

For tonight's Ep, I'm still speculating something big happens with Dean that causes him to be away from Sam in the next ep. Something MoC big that amps up the need for a solution in Sam's mind.

ETA. And Jim has now confirmed via Twitter he's in the Apr 1 episode.

Edited by SueB
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SueB

SueB

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So tonight's episode was much more tame.  And yet, I think we'll look back at this as important in about 7 more episodes.  Dean's confession was interesting.  And then he sure looks like he's physically in pain in his gut.  I just feel like we've had breadcrumbs laid out for us to follow to the next plot.

 

Speaking of which, I'm DELIGHTED we get a look inside Heaven.  Go Bobby!  Also, Dean with the black eyes.  Real or memorex?  

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7kstar

7kstar

One reason I still have hope that Cain is alive, is that I think Dean is hiding how bad he is feeling.  Last season we got that if he didn't kill the cost was death.

 

So if he didn't kill Cain, he didn't kill the ghost and could it be that he was still holding back, like he did with Cain, because he knows if he let's go he will return to being a demon and kill Cas and Sam?

 

It would be nice if they had a better arc for Cain than what we've been shown.

 

Sam still doesn't know the cost of not killing and following the mark's desires, but we aren't seeing Dean having trouble seeing himself in the mirror, at least not in the last 2 eps, that I remember.    May just be babble...and not worth pondering.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Uh....guys.....(i know it's mostly gals LOL) but uh guys....Ummmmm......Can we talk about this? From the promo.

 

I missed it until I saw it tumblr. And no, it's not photoshopped. I went back and watched the promo more closely...and Ummmm 

 

tumblr_nlst11Yqlp1ravgwio2_r2_500.gif

 

I'm not all freaking out. Nope....HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT...

 

I will feel so damn proud and vindicated if it's really demon!Dean back.

 

https://38.media.tumblr.com/7091ba7bba8c5eac19f41f5465bd5a38/tumblr_nlst11Yqlp1ravgwio2_r2_500.gif

Edited by catrox14
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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

I said it last night. I don't know if it's real or memories/nightmare. The bar with Rowena LOOKs like the bathroom he's in. Not sure. Also, when did Dean's mirror get broken in his room? I would say flashback potential for waking up but that's not the shirt he died in.

Wouldn't it be kinda funny if he just woke up demon. Like he dies in his sleep and woke up with the black eyes?

Edited by SueB
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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)

I said it last night. I don't know if it's real or memories/nightmare. The bar with Rowena LOOKs like the bathroom he's in. Not sure. Also, when did Dean's mirror get broken in his room? I would say flashback potential for waking up but that's not the shirt he died in.

Wouldn't it be kinda funny if he just woke up demon. Like he dies in his sleep and woke up with the black eyes?

 

I was thinking hallucination maybe? Since we seem to be retreading S3 lately....maybe it is a little dream of Dean's? Just saying.

Edited by DittyDotDot
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catrox14

catrox14

I said it last night. I don't know if it's real or memories/nightmare. The bar with Rowena LOOKs like the bathroom he's in. Not sure. Also, when did Dean's mirror get broken in his room? I would say flashback potential for waking up but that's not the shirt he died in.

Wouldn't it be kinda funny if he just woke up demon. Like he dies in his sleep and woke up with the black eyes?

Sorry sue b. I didn't see your comment. I was just back from traveling and my reading comprehension was poor. Sorry

I was thinking hallucination maybe? Since we seem to be retreading S3 lately....maybe it is a little dream of Dean's? Just saying.

Eh, that would be far too much of a cheat. I hope that's not the case. I'd rather it be a spell from Rowena.

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NoWillToResist

NoWillToResist

(edited)

Wouldn't it be kinda funny if he just woke up demon. Like he dies in his sleep and woke up with the black eyes?

 

I could buy that old Dean could have accidentally died from alcohol poisoning in his sleep (or choked on his own vomit) but new, clean living, kale-eating Dean? Nah. :)

 

It could be a dream, a spell, a hallucination, or maybe the demon cure is only temporary (though I doubt it). If Rowena is in the episode, she probably threatens him with demon-related stuff and he kills (or tries to kill) her.

Edited by NoWillToResist
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rue721

rue721

Rowena's apparently under Crowley's protection now. The Winchesters are a bone of contention between them, so maybe she screws with Dean in order to manipulate or piss off Crowley?

 

I don't know how Crowley would feel about Dean going black eyes again, seeing as he's the one who got him to become a demon in the first place, but then helped make sure Cas and Sam could cure him, too.

 

It does look like some sort of spell or hallucination to me, because of Dean's weird facial expressions in that gif.

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catrox14

catrox14

It looked to me like Dean was like WTF! and pretty well freaked out.  He may be running around thinking he's cured so seeing the black eyes is making him miserable. Of course, my own personal head!Canon is that Dean has been demon!Dean the whole time and was trying to live normally, so he's shocked to see his black eyes showing his true form.  Leave me to my dreams... #demon!Deanlurks

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

I'm remembering War's little trick back in season 5 where he was making people think others were demons. Maybe Rowena puts a spell on Dean where she makes him see his own eyes as black so that he thinks he's a demon... and/or also so that Sam sees the same thing. Maybe she's trying to get Sam to kill Dean... stupidly not realizing that that's exactly not what she wants (as Dean would likely become a real demon again). Also Sam would be unlikely to kill Dean anyway, since he successfully "cured" him once before. However I personally don't think that Rowena is the sharpest knife in the block, so...

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rue721

rue721

Yeah, I tend to think that Rowena would enjoy fucking with the Winchesters specifically because Crowley told her not to, and she knows he won't do anything or maybe would even get a weird kick out of if she didn't listen. But that's kind of too indirect for this show.

 

Honestly, I'm still bummed out that they apparently weren't even going anywhere with the Cain thing after First Born. It's hard to work up any feeling of anticipation when you already know that the people *writing* the story can't be bothered to think about what's going to happen next or to wonder about what the possibilities are or to try to make the story into something cool.

 

Not to be so negative! I think the demon!Dean thing had/has tons of potential! But they're apparently not going to be bothered to try and realize that potential, and that just kind of sucks the joy out of the whole thing for me.

 

Is anybody else feeling that way?

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SueB

SueB

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Yeah, I tend to think that Rowena would enjoy fucking with the Winchesters specifically because Crowley told her not to, and she knows he won't do anything or maybe would even get a weird kick out of if she didn't listen. But that's kind of too indirect for this show.

 

Honestly, I'm still bummed out that they apparently weren't even going anywhere with the Cain thing after First Born. It's hard to work up any feeling of anticipation when you already know that the people *writing* the story can't be bothered to think about what's going to happen next or to wonder about what the possibilities are or to try to make the story into something cool.

 

Not to be so negative! I think the demon!Dean thing had/has tons of potential! But they're apparently not going to be bothered to try and realize that potential, and that just kind of sucks the joy out of the whole thing for me.

 

Is anybody else feeling that way?

To be fair, Carver DID say at the time of the 200th that Cain WOULD be back, just not in the first half of the season.  So I think it's unfair to say they didn't plan on having him back. They just didn't secure the actor with a specific timing until the actor called.  My disappointment is that I felt it was a lynchpin moment and should have been mapped out in the previous summer.  

 

In other news, photos are out for next week:

http://www.screenfad.com/supernatural/supernatural-photos-s10e17-inside-man-34927?image=8

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

Tennis anyone? #ThingsDeanWinchesterWouldNeverSay #SPNFamily

 

Dean Smith might though ; ) . (The Dean Smith from "It's A Terrible Life", not Dean with the Dean Smith alias from season 7 and "Fan Fiction." As Sam would say: "no relation.")

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7kstar

7kstar

I think I should warn you rant warning...Maybe sometimes finding out what the idjits in charge of writing the story may not be a healthy use of my time.

 

To be honest it seems as if they have done this with way too many stories.  It's why the Dean fans can get so angry because his stories seem to be dropped without any real purpose but to be an equal complainer, Sam's aren't always planned out well either.

 

Maybe they just didn't think they could get Cain, but why turn Dean into a Demon when they didn't have any plans to use it for any real purpose.  So yeah I am leery of getting too excited and if I didn't enjoy the cons and seeing Jensen's talent's on screen, this show would be easy to drop.

 

Maybe the problem is that the idjits in charge just don't get why the old fans stick.  The young fans seem to really be excited but I'm getting tired of so  many bad eps in a row.  I'm getting tired of another storyline being a big bust and waste of talents.  Cain had so much potential, and Demon Dean should have been big. 

 

If a witch can get rid of a MoC I think I might throw something at Carver...so it is a good thing I don't stand a chance in running into him in person.  Every showrunner has done some really stupid stuff, but I just can't why they are soooooooo blind.  Sorry I think it turned into a rant...instead of anything meaningful...feel free to ignore.

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SueB

SueB

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I don't think a witch can get of the MoC, I think Not!Gretal's de-aging spell was a loophole but that may have only given Dean time. I don't think it was permanent. If your talking about Rowena's statement in the preview, I think she's talking about her own skin. If you are talking about the Sam theories, I'm thinking 'control' vice cure.

I do think the Spear of Destiny in the Bunker may be strong enough to remove the Mark. But that's cause it has Jesus juice. I don't think anything man-made or demon-powered has a shot.

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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

Everybody Hates Hitler. Dean was doing inventory. He found the Oz key and held up the box that said 'Spear of Destiny'. Dean wondered aloud if it was God's toothpick. It was Andrew Dabb who described the backstory of the Spear of Destiny in a S8 DVD special feature. It was a Checkov's fun moment In my opinion.

Edited by SueB
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SueB

SueB

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IDK. It's got Jesus blood on it. That's a pretty power positive thing. I'm thinking it won't make him a demon. Hitler's dudes thought it would make the person immortal. Of course Hitler was pretty demonic without the black smoke. And demons are immortal, at least Caun was.

But, I'm thinking blood of redemption here, not a demon thing.

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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

I don't ever recall him saying Jesus was just a man. I remember him talking about Luke being a prophet. ITA the show is much more comfortable with Abrahmic and pre-Abrahmic stories but I don't think we ever got Cas explicitly saying Jesus was not divine.

ETA: I think the number one reason they'd never pull out the spear would be because it puts too much emphasis on Jesus. OTOH, all the rituals they do are Catholic based. So.... They are wildly inconsistent.

Edited by SueB
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catrox14

catrox14

Anything I say going forward is not an indictment of any religion and is not intended to offend any one here that is religious. 

 

IMO all the Catholic symbolism etc is IMO part of lore and it's treated that way as a rituals just like the spells etc. I do think there would be too many unfortunate( or I suppose fortunate depending on one's beliefs) implications with using the blood of Jesus to save Dean.   I think there was discussion that Joshua was Jesus in S5 amongst viewers, but I I don't think it was ever confirmed in the show that he was Jesus.  And I really would be highly dubious of them introducing Jesus as a functional character or even a function to save Dean.  Because holy shit. #sorrynotsorry.That is a loaded thing that I can't fathom they would do. And IMO that is going down a path that I don't think Jensen or Jared will ever sign on for because that is way too IMO evangelical as in evangelizing that "Jesus is the Way", even if Jensen or Jared believes that themselves, they have always said they do not want to be the mouthpiece for ANY religion.

 

I hope I didn't offend.

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