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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

I've been thinking more on Riechenbach. I think it's probably supposed to be a call back to the original Sherlock Holmes--Reichenback Falls is where Sherlock has the ultimate battle with his long-sought nemesis. I'm thinking Cole is sort of Sherlock in the sense he's been searching for Dean for years and in some ways Cole dies in this battle--or his innocence anyway--and is somewhat reborn now that his eyes are opened to what's out there. And Dean is the nemesis with the knowledge so that makes him Moriarty. And in a way I can see Sam as Watson in the sense that he is the witness to the battle. But I'm sure if I tried hard enough I could find ways that all of them could be the other characters.  

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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catrox14

catrox14

I have to say I really hope that you are wrong @DDD only because I hate the idea of Cole who I really don't like and don't care for the actor, and has no history in the show to have that level of importance in dean's life and the show. Especially when there are dozens of existing characters that we have either heard about or have met or could be related to characters we already know or have heard about and would have far more dramatic impact.

Sounds to me like they are trying to set up Cole for a spinoff

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

I guess I look at it that Cole doesn't hold importance in Dean's life, but Dean holds importance in Cole's. Dean--regular Dean, not Demon Dean--probably barely remembers what happened with Cole's dad, but to Cole he's been reliving it every day.

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catrox14

catrox14

He still has an elevated importance in relation to dean's life. I I mean if Dean is no longer a demon he might not be able to best Cole. And I would rather have someone from he past that we have knowledge of be the one that takes Dean over the falls not this piss ant who abandoned his family to hunt Dean. I don't like that storyline at all. It was fine for one episode but I think it's going to drag on and on.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)

I'm not suggesting I like the storyline. Personally, I don't think Cole will ever best Dean, demon or not. Yes, Dean had an advantage as a demon, but I don't think it's an advantage Dean actually needed to best Cole. Regular Dean is pretty badass himself. And, I think Dean already took Cole over the falls. Again, I think it's Dean that's important in Cole's life, not Cole that's important in Dean's.

Edited by DittyDotDot
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

I will just laugh when, in their next encounter (we all know it is coming) Cole does stuff like throwing holy water on Dean and be all "hahaha, I know everything about demons now" and Dean will be like "yeah, not a demon anymore".

 

In fact, it would be hilariously funny if Dean was a different kind of supernatural entity each time he met Cole, bested him, send Cole packing to the library to study up on that particular monster and then boom, all was for naught because Dean is something else again. 

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7kstar

7kstar

Man I hope the 200th, is better than the preview...PLEASE!

 

The only good line, no singing.  Shame Dean has to be a bad singer.  Although it might be fun if we saw Sam singing and dancing and doing a really great job.... :)

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)

Their promos usually suck, IMO, that's one of many reasons why I adopted the policy of avoiding them like the plague. But I have to ask, from the promos, does the episode seem more like The French Mistake or The Real Ghostbusters. From interviews it sounds a lot like The Real Ghostbusters, but they say things like it's in the vein of The French Mistake. Hopefully it'll stand on it's own in the end, but I do like to set my expectations accordingly if possible.

 

ETA: Sorry, if I allow myself to break my policy on this, where will the madness end?

Edited by DittyDotDot
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Pete Martell

Pete Martell

You aren't missing anything by avoiding the promo. It's mostly Dean and Sam being shocked that people are singing about them (we barely see or hear any singing), and...lol lol!...it's gurlzzz!!!

 

I don't expect much for the 200th, as I thought the 100th was a huge mess (Point of No Return), but I hope there is more than this. I know there were supposed to be returns, unless they just meant the girls playing versions of the characters.

 

The only part that amused me was the female Dean was wearing something that reminded me of the many Dean cosplays you see. The only difference is she wasn't making out with a cosplay Cas.

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SueB

SueB

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Having seen the promo, I've drastically lowered my expectations.  Somehow the fans being kids just kinda, IDK, makes it less interesting.  I did like the HORRIFIC notion that they have someone playing Mary stuck on the FREAKING CEILING.  I'm telling 'ya, if being a demon and possessed by an angel didn't send these two to therapy, I'm thinking having middle schoolers re-enact the horrific death of their mother may just do it.  The singing snippet was also bad.  I think that's the other bit.  I understand
"musical-ish" vice musical, but I was hoping for actual good music.  This is pantomime.  So kids + dubious music = WTF Robbie? 

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catrox14

catrox14

Honest to Gods. How is this something they thought would be fun or clever?

 

You know what would redeem it? If this triggers demon!Dean again and he slaughters them all for mocking his mother's death.  WTF are they thinking??

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SueB

SueB

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Couple of spoilers gleaned over the last week:

1) The Mark of Cain is NOT the front burner story in the first half of S10.  At about the 31min mark of the Gold Panel for ChiCon, Jensen says that they have filmed up to EP10 and "it hasn't quite become the front burner story line". And he thinks it has the potential to be a bigger part of the second half of the season. Also that they would have to book Tim O. again but "he's a busy man, maybe they're dealing with that right now".  Note: Tim O's new show just finished filming for the season so this is not impossible. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9IHmIv4TRo&index=4&list=PLQVHXBjbQ6pNSQx3y6-uLFUp-NBSPypj4

 

2) Robbie Thompson CBR interview,http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2014/10/28/supernaturals-robbie-thompson-on-felicia-day-and-the-return-of-charlie/

In addition to the spoilers regarding her episode (comes back from Oz, brings something bad back with her, more connection with both brothers, etc..) He also talks about the nerdy connection between Sam and Charlie. THEN, he says

 

That’s something I hope we get to explore as well in future episodes.

I think that is tacit acknowledgement that she's not killed off in the episode she just finished filming. He also used the plural episode(s) with relationship to this season so maybe she's in a two-parter or comes back more than once.

 

Reflecting on the Mark of Cain comments, it would not surprise me if they back-burnered it waiting to figure out when they could book Timothy O. That seems like a pivotal episode for that arc.  I imagine they need to pin that down to help map out the back 13 episodes.

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catrox14

catrox14

Couple of spoilers gleaned over the last week:

1) The Mark of Cain is NOT the front burner story in the first half of S10. At about the 31min mark of the Gold Panel for ChiCon, Jensen says that they have filmed up to EP10 and "it hasn't quite become the front burner story line". And he thinks it has the potential to be a bigger part of the second half of the season. Also that they would have to book Tim O. again but "he's a busy man, maybe they're dealing with that right now". Note: Tim O's new show just finished filming for the season so this is not impossible.

2) Robbie Thompson CBR interview,http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2014/10/28/supernaturals-robbie-thompson-on-felicia-day-and-the-return-of-charlie/

In addition to the spoilers regarding her episode (comes back from Oz, brings something bad back with her, more connection with both brothers, etc..) He also talks about the nerdy connection between Sam and Charlie. THEN, he says

I think that is tacit acknowledgement that she's not killed off in the episode she just finished filming. He also used the plural episode(s) with relationship to this season so maybe she's in a two-parter or comes back more than once.

Reflecting on the Mark of Cain comments, it would not surprise me if they back-burnered it waiting to figure out when they could book Timothy O. That seems like a pivotal episode for that arc. I imagine they need to pin that down to help map out the back 13 episodes.

Not to be all knee jerky here, but I'm gonna get all knee jerky here

So what they dump demon Dean too early, give Sam the nerd connection with Charlie when it has always been a nerd connection with Dean and a cool thing for Dean to show that other side of him? And no mark of Cain stuff? So what exactly will Dean be doing after the most important fucking thing that has ever happened to him? I'm pretty sure I know... Sigh. I'm trying to stick it out but seriously wtf?

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

http://tvline.com/2014/10/29/castle-ted-mcginley-season-7-episode-9-spoilers-ask-ausiello/ -- minor Cas spoiler.

Question: TVLine.com is the first site I check in the morning. You are my spoiler superhero, so I need you to rescue me. I’m desperate for a big juicy Sam-centric Supernatural spoiler. —Kira

 

Ausiello: Can I give you a mildly-juicy Cas tidbit instead? Crowley may have replenished his grace, but the angel still has plenty of problems. “He’s going to be at something of a crossroads,” executive producer Jeremy Carver previews, “deciding what’s most important to him and what’s most important about the mission that he was sent here to do — and what that’s come to mean these days. It’s going to lead him on a pretty personal, pretty powerful journey.”

 

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

T

UESDAY, NOVEMBER 18

 

SUPERNATURAL

“Ask Jeeves” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, DLV) (HDTV)

DEAN GETS A SURPRISING MESSAGE FROM BOBBY’S CELL PHONE — Dean (Jensen Ackles) is surprised when he checks Bobby’s cell phone and hears a message that says Bobby or his next of kin have been named as a beneficiary in an heiress’ will.  Hoping that means extra money, Dean talks Sam (Jared Padalecki) into hitting the road to claim their fortune.  However, what they encounter at the house is far from a treasure chest.  John MacCarthy directed this episode 

written by Eric Charmelo & Nicole Snyder (1006).  Original airdate 11/18/2014.

 

 

Charmelo/Snyder have a real mixed bag.

- The Purge (2014) ... (written by - as Eric Charmelo)
- Dog Dean Afternoon (2013) ... (written by - as Eric Charmelo)
- My Heart Will Go On (2011) ... (written by - as Eric Charmelo)
- Mannequin 3: The Reckoning (2011) ... (written by - as Eric Charmelo)
- You Can't Handle the Truth (2010) ... (story - as Eric Charmelo)

 

 

I'll bet we find out Bobby had some kid he didn't know about or never told about.

Edited by catrox14
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SueB

SueB

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I'll bet we find out Bobby had some kid he didn't know about or never told about.

I bet it's a trap. Someone who had a grudge against Bobby and wants to lure them in.

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7kstar

7kstar

(edited)

Probably but I really hope not. Because you know, I'm really tired of Dumb!Dean.  I mean surely Dean will have thought twice about this.  But then.....I'm a bitter girl right now too. LOL

I think I'm joining you in the bitter department...I'm trying really hard not to go there, but right now it looks like they should have never turned Dean into a Demon...if you aren't going to do it right, don't do it.  Last week felt like this will save us some money and it really makes it hard to be excited right now.  I knew I shouldn't have gotten my hopes up.

Edited by 7kstar
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)
I think I'm joining you in the bitter department...I'm trying really hard not to go there, but right now it looks like they never turned Dean into a Demon...if you aren't going to do it right, don't do it.  Last week felt like this will save us some money and it really makes it hard to be excited right now.  I knew I shouldn't have gotten my hopes up.

 

This is what is frustrating. Why float that either brother was going to be a demon and then do nothing with it? They could have done the whole MoC!Dean storyline and Dean enjoying killing and being taken over by bloodlust 

 

1) Without KILLING HIM

2) Without making him into a demon if you aren't going to do ANYTHING with him being a demon. I mean anything meaningful and game changing.

 

It's so stupid!

Edited by catrox14
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Wynterwolf

Wynterwolf

Based on various cop shows, the, "You've won money!" ploy has been used a lot by law enforcement to trap criminals.  Not that this will necessarily be law enforcement, since I don't they're going to start the boys having to run from the authorities again, but if Travis was in this ep, I'd think it was Cole.  Otherwise, it could be anyone that is trying to find them that doesn't want to give their identity away.  

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SueB

SueB

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This is supposed to be the Clue episode, so it'll be the boys and a bunch of other people in a house with some sort of mystery.

Oooh! Fun!  One of the Best Psych episode efforts was based on Clue.

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kimrey

kimrey

Maybe it's because I don't particularity care for Charlie, but that article/interview seems really excessive considering she has only been in 4 episodes.  

 

I feel like they push Charlie/Felicia Day so hard.  I really just don't get it.

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Wynterwolf

Wynterwolf

I have to admit, I have really grown to love Charlie, so I'm excited to see her again (and again?), and to see how she's been changed from her Oz experience.  

 

From a lot of the recent interviews, it seems pretty firm that the Mark of Cain is going to be an ongoing thing over the course of the season, and I definitely suspect that Dean making his first kill post-demonhood, is going to kickstart the process again.  And maybe this time, it will be harder for Dean to control.   

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SueB

SueB

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From a lot of the recent interviews, it seems pretty firm that the Mark of Cain is going to be an ongoing thing over the course of the season, and I definitely suspect that Dean making his first kill post-demonhood, is going to kickstart the process again.  And maybe this time, it will be harder for Dean to control.

I think you are spot-on. 

 

Danielle Turchinano interviews from the 200th party:

Jeremy Carver:

Robbie Thompson:

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Wynterwolf

Wynterwolf

EEEE!!  I'd only read the transcripts of the interviews, I hadn't actually seen them, but I think I'm even more excited now for the 200th, for Charlie's ep, and for the MoC stuff.  

 

I wonder if they are going to eventually take Dean to a place where he'll have to choose whether to ask for help.  That's always been such a big thing for him, that he's the one that takes care of everyone else, but he's had trouble asking for/accepting help from others.  Could be a really strong character growth arc for him, if they go that way.  

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catrox14

catrox14

I like Charlie in her own right but I love that she and Dean have such a great sibling like bond. He was protective and supportive of her and respected her intellect. She let him feel free to let his geek flag fly and encouraged him. I love that they care about each other so much. I don't mention Sam because she wasn't really a change factor like she was for Dean. So yes I want Charlie around for a long time.

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7kstar

7kstar

EEEE!!  I'd only read the transcripts of the interviews, I hadn't actually seen them, but I think I'm even more excited now for the 200th, for Charlie's ep, and for the MoC stuff.  

 

I wonder if they are going to eventually take Dean to a place where he'll have to choose whether to ask for help.  That's always been such a big thing for him, that he's the one that takes care of everyone else, but he's had trouble asking for/accepting help from others.  Could be a really strong character growth arc for him, if they go that way.  

I'm hoping from the interviews that the growth is what they are going for and finally head in a new direction.  Listening to the interviews, I really hear how much they love the fans and even the fans that create fanfiction and they are trying to honor the fans.  I hope I will enjoy the 200 ep although since I used the promo to teach my classes about makeup and set design, I have that song stuck in my head and it is starting to grow on me a bit more than the first preview of the promo.  Even if I hate it, I know that they really wanted us to like it and I can respect that even if they fail.  Hopefully they wont.  Crossing fingers.  :)

 

Yeah, I'd say rumors of Demon!Dean's demise may have been premature. He'll at least have a struggle for his humanity. It ain't over yet.

If they show the struggles, I can deal with demon Dean's demise ending early if they do something with the mark and Dean struggling with his humanity.  I liked that Dean didn't back down from his point of view, so maybe this time the boys can enter into the conversation as equals and enjoy working together and saving people's lives.

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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

Excuse me while I over-analyze this:

 

"Are they really going there?"

 

WHERE?  Now is this Jensen being a little unsophisticated about how much we already know ... like "going there" is the fact that it's a high school musical?  Or is there something more?  I NEED TO KNOW NOW!

(wish I had the Steven Colbert 'gimme' gif).

 

Also... he called him DAD.  I'm not saying he's over-identifies sometimes but...sometimes?  And I'd love to see John/Mary see Dean and Sam and comment on their current existence.

Edited by SueB
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)
Also... he called him DAD. I'm not saying he's over-identifies sometimes but...sometimes? And I'd love to see John/Mary see Dean and Sam and comment on their current existence

 

I don't think he over identified. In the show Dean and Sam called him Dad. They didn't call him John and since he was asked which character he would like to see back, him answering Dad instead of John made sense to me especially since he went on to talk about the dynamic between the three of them as actors.

Edited by CuriousParker
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7kstar

7kstar

 

@SueB

Also... he called him DAD.  I'm not saying he's over-identifies sometimes but...sometimes?  And I'd love to see John/Mary see Dean and Sam and comment on their current existence.

Both actors have at times gone method, but to be fair he has said this many times about having John come back and calling him Dad.  Plus he knows there are fans that want to see this too.  He's asked this at conventions a lot and he is the first one he says he would love to see come back. 

 

Sometimes when you act lines get blurred and I know I've seen it and had it happen to me as well.  It is the part that non actors will never get.  But I don't hear anything to be worried about. 

 

I did read something from an actor once that made me feel he crossed the line and had trouble getting back and unfortunately, he didn't survive.  I didn't think it was the only factor, but going too deep in method can be dangerous, which is why I don't teach my students that method.

 

  I don't really Jensen as that type as actor as he looks at the beat of the lines and such and that grounds him.  He did have some trouble last season but recognized it and asked for time off, so that is a good sign.  Plus sometimes you make an connection with a performer that makes the performance stronger.  I think he misses that part, and I can understand because those scenes are really strong and I wouldn't mind John coming back.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Jensen has said in the past that going method is not effective e for TV, because things can so fast with a script that it works against you. I'm sure there some things it takes a little longer to shake off but he seems to have it in perspective.

I wonder if the " Really going there" is some kind of reset back to the beginning. Jensen has said it's "zany". I know Jensen says he is proud of the episode but there was something he found concerning enough that he flew to LA to talk to Carver about the message the episode was sending. That makes me think it something that might really piss off or confuse the fan base or is really screwing with characterization of Sam and Dean.

Based on the promo pic of Dean looking confused when looking in Baby's engine and the boys putting stuff in the trunk just like at the end of the pilot and the end of season2 my brain jumped to role reversals. Not necessarily body swap but with the origin story flipping the roles of Sam and Dean. Or that some kind of magic or time reset that wipes out things they did but can't wipe out the Mark of Cain.

Or maybe they watch their lives being played out and they weigh that they have done more good than bad. Even though Jensen said he was happy with final product, I remain skeptical.

Edited by catrox14
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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

TVLine spoilers

 

Relevant bits:

 

I absolutely loved the opening scene of last week’s Supernatural, with Sam and Dean (with shades on) overlooking the lake. But even through the end of the episode, Dean was surprisingly (and a bit disappointingly) cool and put together, post-Demon. He’s goanna explode or have an emotional meltdown soon…right? –Audrey

 

Considering the Mark of Cain is still haunting the elder Winchester, that is a strong possibility. In fact, the pesky problem is going to take up a lot of storyline real estate going forward. “You’re going to see Dean dealing with this pretty much for the next chunk of the season, as he and Sam take different paths in how to deal with it,” executive producer Jeremy Carver teases. “While we’re all very happy he was cured of being a demon, there’s a lot more work to be done.”

 

I was so not expecting Supernatural‘s Dean to go so far with his kill-Sam campaign! Now that human Dean’s back in business, how long until someone brings up that pesky Cole is fluttering about? –Sam (no, not that one)

 

EP Jeremy Carver responds, “Who’s to say Cole resurfaces…? But if he did, that would be a heck of a confrontation. I’m looking forward to it as much as you are.”

 

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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

But I don't hear anything to be worried about.

I wasn't worried, I kinda thought it was more sweet & possessive of the show's storyline than anything method. Lord know I over identify with the show.

Jared and Jensen discuss the 200th episode

Destiel or Wincest. I'm calling it now.

Given it's a high school, I'd bet more on Destiel vs Wincest simply because they already gave a nod to Wincest in S4 and gay is more mainstream for a high school play than incest. The only cause for doubt is a complete lack of spoilers regarding this. I would think this would never stay a secret.

ETA (after sleeping on it)

OR. Maybe not. I saw new picture of the 'cast' lineup and there's a robot....perhaps with the laser eyes. So it occurred to me that maybe they don't do demons. Too scary? And the robot is the bad guy?

If THAT is the case, I could see Dean getting upset because they are butchering the story and the 'playwright' and director explaining that it's not about the bad guy, it's about the brothers. And the brothers taking care of each other. Plus perhaps Cas is there to help them, along with Bobby. So we get the message that family doesn't end with blood. So two big shopworn themes while throwing out specific canon events. Thus Fan Fiction.

And Carver and company think it's a love letter to the fans because they are saying that they love that the fans get the purpose of the show and can tell their own version of events while staying true to that purpose.

And there might be an oblique Destiel allusion but perhaps not spot on.

And I think Robbi Thompson is the key. First it's an inside joke regarding his robot love (or Robocop). Second, he wrote 'Meta Fiction', which has Metatron talking about whether it's the text or subtext that makes the story.

Sam says something about it being sweet while Dean blusters about no singing. And I bet it ends with the 'we've got work to do' reference, based on the pictures.

Edited by SueB
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Mcolleague

Mcolleague

Disclaimer first that I haven't been online much recently and only vaguely skimmed some Tumblr posts so I may be remembering this wrong - I think the episode was aired to a small group of people (forgot where, was it the 200th ep party?) who signed non disclosure agreements, but one (a destiel fan) posted about it confirming there were mentions of Destiel, and that she enjoyed the episode. So most likely it's not going to be too overtly offensive? Some fans are concerned about Destiel being equated with Wincest in the episode, as in the show calling them both fan phenomenon (therefore quashing the idea of authorial intent with Destiel, and any hopes of it eventually becoming canon), but I wouldn't personally have a problem with this, since I never at any point thought the show would go there anyway? I dunno. We all want very different things from this show, and there's no way to please everyone. Some people are probably going to be upset no matter what. 

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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

Some fans are concerned about Destiel being equated with Wincest in the episode, as in the show calling them both fan phenomenon (therefore quashing the idea of authorial intent with Destiel, and any hopes of it eventually becoming canon), but I wouldn't personally have a problem with this, since I never at any point thought the show would go there anyway? I dunno. We all want very different things from this show, and there's no way to please everyone. Some people are probably going to be upset no matter what.

Unambiguously, if the show was able to please all of the fans in one episode, it would be a miraculous/supernatural event IMO. Perhaps killing Metatron someday....I could see most fans on board with his demise (poor Curtis Armstrong).

Since the entire episode is named 'Fan Fiction', I have a hard time seeing anything but the 'truth' that the brothers take care of each other ( or some other 'family is important' theme). Something feel good, not shippy at all. The interviews suggest to me that the show is making a statement accepting fan interpretations as valid ways to see the story. If someone wants a definitive statement of authorial intent, I'd be surprised if they get one. If someone wants an 'our view is right, your view is imaginary', I'll be stunned if they get that as well.

My forecast, fuzzy with a side of warm.

Edited by SueB
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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

Article on the 200th as well as the full Sneak Peek ... which is different than the one above

http://www.screenfad.com/supernatural/supernatural-interview-200th-episode-jared-padalecki-jensen-ackles-27719#sthash.Aa2ZCU83.dpbs

 

 

...And Jensen was right to guess that his look when entering the auditorium is remarkable. In fact BOTH have a look of... horror... I think.  It's funny and sad at the same time.

Edited by SueB
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ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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