Spoilers With Speculation

[ILoveReading]

6 minutes ago, Diane said:

That makes to much sense (bolded part).  I agree Sam may need to do some research and then they can work on fixing it.  And no I am not saying that Dean is not capable, because he is, but this being a show about both people I don't expect Dean to do it all. I am worried about the Dean and Cas thing too. I am hoping that they are not going with Cas not being himself.  Hopefully we will learn more tomorrow night.

Will respond in Bitch Jerk

[Aeryn13]

The clip clearly played as "can you fix it?" aka do the entire job. 

I fully expect either this episode or the next to end with Sam presenting the newly finished Colt after he has fixed it by himself. 

[Wayward Son]

13 minutes ago, Diane said:

That makes to much sense (bolded part).  I agree Sam may need to do some research and then they can work on fixing it.  And no I am not saying that Dean is not capable, because he is, but this being a show about both people I don't expect Dean to do it all. I am worried about the Dean and Cas thing too. I am hoping that they are not going with Cas not being himself.  Hopefully we will learn more tomorrow night.

Since we know Misha/Cas won't be back until the finale I doubt we will learn anything new. I'd say for the next three episodes we will get "any luck with tracking down Cas?" "Nope" style conversations at best, or they'll be too busy dealing with all out war against the BMoL to worry about him.

[Geordiegirl1967]

49 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Okay, explain to me why Dean, the mechanically inclined, engineering minded, weapons focused, also highly intelligent guy is asking if Sam can fix the Colt? Really, show? Seriously? Wow. Just wow. Yup, I'm off to the bitterness thread.

I suspect it's not a mechanical task, but a spell/lore/research task. Though I think 'do you think WE can fix it?' would've been so much better. The whole Sam is reseach guy / Dean is strategy guy is such a lazy device these days. Yes these are their strengths/preferences but it's not like Dean is rubbish at lore/research or Sam can't come up with a plan in a tight spot. Come on writers! 

[catrox14]

40 minutes ago, SueB said:

Or Sam, who is more the "lore" guy, has to look at it.  Dean can mechanically fix the weapon, but it's the lore that is the dominant issue. 

I'm glad they didn't throw it away.

I'm worried about Dean thinking Cas is not Cas. 

Dean knows plenty about lore too. Especially about the damn Colt.

And maybe, I'll be able to step back if Sam says, "We have to do this together" but that clip implied IMO pretty clearly this is not Dean asking Sam to help him fix it. It's Dean asking Sam if he can fix it. 

And this is not bitch/jerk. I don't care WHO they ceded that over too. 

Oh I get it now.  Sam memorized how to make the bullets for the Colt from Bobby so I guess we'll find out he also memorized how to fix the Colt like Bobby did, so it can only be him?  

Edited May 3, 2017 by catrox14

[Demented Daisy]

Meh.  I'm not bothered.  I heard "Can you fix it?" as "You're the one working with the MoL archives -- have you seen anything that would hint at how to fix it?"

I mean, honestly, if Dean could have fixed it, wouldn't he have done so back in season 3?  They've both learned since then, but we've been specifically told that Sam has spent more time with the MoL archives than Dean has.  I would expect Sam to have knowledge that Dean doesn't, at this point.  But that's why they work together, because their knowledge and skills complement one another.  Sam is more "book smart" while Dean has the instincts. 

But mileage varies.

[catrox14]

Sam holding the Colt in his lap and unwrapping it and looking through the broken revolver portion with the pieces in his hand whilst Dean asks 'Can you fix it" doesn't imply to me anything other than Sam being the one tasked with fixing it. Alone. 

Maybe Sam got a jump start on researching  "How to Fix the Colt" just in case once he realized it was around.

I mean I will happily eat my hat, your hat, all the hats if I'm wrong on this.

They will go a long way to ameliorating my immense aggravation if Dean fixes the Lance of Michael and kills Lucifer with it.  

[Demented Daisy]

32 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Sam holding the Colt in his lap

Probably doesn't matter, but it wasn't in his lap.  It was on the table.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Demented Daisy said:

Probably doesn't matter, but it wasn't in his lap.  It was on the table.

I thought he took it from his lap and put on the table but I only watched the promo twice.

But yes how it got on the table is immaterial to my concern. Sam is character holding the broken pieces and looking at them whilst Dean is asking 'Can you fix it'?" Dean is not asking "How can we fix it?" .

[Demented Daisy]

44 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I thought he took it from his lap and put on the table but I only watched the promo twice.

But yes how it got on the table is immaterial to my concern. Sam is character holding the broken pieces and looking at them whilst Dean is asking 'Can you fix it'?" Dean is not asking "How can we fix it?" .

I think Dean is more concerned with "fixing" whatever is wrong with Castiel.  The Colt is secondary, at best.  Again, doesn't bother me; I think I prefer it, actually.

But to each their own.

[ILoveReading]

5 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

I think Dean is more concerned with "fixing" whatever is wrong with Castiel.  The Colt is secondary, at best.  Again, doesn't bother me; I think I prefer it, actually.

But to each their own.

Dean seems to be asking Sam how to they go about that too.  Sam comes up with the idea of thinking like Cas and Dean asks how they do that.

I don't mean that in a bitch/jerk way, it was stated on screen

Edited May 3, 2017 by ILoveReading

[Demented Daisy]

1 minute ago, ILoveReading said:

Dean seems to be asking Sam how to they go about that too.  Sam comes up with the idea of thinking like Cas and Dean asks how they do that.

You are certainly entitled to that interpretation, but it is not one I share.

I see this as growth for Dean.  In the past couple of seasons, it was Dean's way or the highway.  I'm glad that he's asking for help/input from Sam.  It makes for a more equitable partnership.

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

You are certainly entitled to that interpretation, but it is not one I share.

I see this as growth for Dean.  In the past couple of seasons, it was Dean's way or the highway.  I'm glad that he's asking for help/input from Sam.  It makes for a more equitable partnership.

Dean was under the influence of the Mark of Cain for the past two seasons which fueled much of him going it alone. Even so, Sam went his own way with his plans to remove the MoC from Dean regardless of Dean's objections. Last season Dean asked Sam for help with dealing with Amara.

[Demented Daisy]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Dean was under the influence of the Mark of Cain for the past two seasons which fueled much of him going it alone. Even so, Sam went his own way with his plans to remove the MoC from Dean regardless of Dean's objections.

So?  What does that have to do with Dean's characterization?

Quote

Last season Dean asked Sam for help with dealing with Amara.

When was that?  (Genuine question because I don't remember.)  And what do you mean by "dealing with"?

[MysteryGuest]

I thought the Colt looked melted when Daegon destroyed it?  It looks like it's just in two pieces now, which is not how I remember it.  If they can fix it, then maybe Dean will actually get a chance to use it this season.  But I would prefer they don't use it against Cas.    

[Idahoforspn]

38 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

So?  What does that have to do with Dean's characterization?

When was that?  (Genuine question because I don't remember.)  And what do you mean by "dealing with"?

Season  11. Episode 13  Last scene

[Demented Daisy]

2 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

Season  11. Episode 13  Last scene

Quote

 

Dean: Standing here right now, every bone in my body wants to run her through. Send her back to that hole she crawled out of. But when I’m near her, I don’t know. Something happens and I can’t explain it, but to call it desire or love…it’s not that. I’m screwed man. We wanna kill the darkness. We need to kill the darkness. And I don’t think I can. I’m sorry to do that to you, ya know, but when it comes right down to it…

Sam: I got it Dean.

 

Yes, that is very Dean Winchester.  Asking for help without actually asking.  Not sure it shows character growth, but that's interpretation.

[catrox14]

30 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I thought the Colt looked melted when Daegon destroyed it?  It looks like it's just in two pieces now, which is not how I remember it.  If they can fix it, then maybe Dean will actually get a chance to use it this season.  But I would prefer they don't use it against Cas.    

That didn't make sense to me either.  It looked completely destroyed. That's why I wondered if the Colt can't actually be completely destroyed.  I mean why wouldn't Dagon make sure it was 100% obliterated. LOL

[MysteryGuest]

8 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

That didn't make sense to me either.  It looked completely destroyed. That's why I wondered if the Colt can't actually be completely destroyed.  I mean why wouldn't Dagon make sure it was 100% obliterated. LOL

I have no clue anymore.  If it's not destroyed, and they can just fix it, then what was the point of having her destroy it to begin with?  And I'm starting to think more and more that we won't see the Lance of Michael again. It certainly seemed like it would be important, since they made such a display of Dean taking it with them, but now that they're going to fix the Colt (or at least try to), will they also have them fix the Lance?  It doesn't seem likely.

[Idahoforspn]

1 minute ago, MysteryGuest said:

I have no clue anymore.  If it's not destroyed, and they can just fix it, then what was the point of having her destroy it to begin with?  And I'm starting to think more and more that we won't see the Lance of Michael again. It certainly seemed like it would be important, since they made such a display of Dean taking it with them, but now that they're going to fix the Colt (or at least try to), will they also have them fix the Lance?  It doesn't seem likely.

Are we sure it wasn't Jensen who decided to pick up the pieces of the Lance? I doubt it will appear again.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

Are we sure it wasn't Jensen who decided to pick up the pieces of the Lance? I doubt it will appear again.

Whether it's an acting, directing or writing choice that moment stood and IMO was heavily emphasized with Dean picking up the pieces and taking it with him. hat leaves a pretty strong impression that it could be seen again.  Maybe it won't be seen this year but in s25 LOL

Edited May 4, 2017 by catrox14

[Idahoforspn]

8 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Whether it's an acting, directing or writing choice that moment stood and IMO was heavily emphasized with Dean picking up the pieces and taking it with him. hat leaves a pretty strong impression that it could be seen again.  Maybe it won't be seen this year but in s25 LOL

If it was Jensen, it doesn't foreshadow anything. 

[Geordiegirl1967]

1 hour ago, MysteryGuest said:

But I would prefer they don't use it against Cas.    

Why would they need it for Cas? They can kill Cas with an angel blade if they wanted to. I think it more likely they want it for the Nephilim (or maybe a Nephilim-posessed Cas)? But as the Colt can't kill Lucifer, why would it work on his, arguably, more powerful child?

[CluelessDrifter]

18 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

Are we sure it wasn't Jensen who decided to pick up the pieces of the Lance? I doubt it will appear again.

According to Davy Perez, Dean picking up the lance was their nod to Dean's connection with Michael.  And I quote, "whether or not that pays in some way remains to be seen."

From his interview at the end of February.  

http://www.hypable.com/supernatural-davy-perez-tarantino-interview/

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

Why would they need it for Cas? They can kill Cas with an angel blade if they wanted to. I think it more likely they want it for the Nephilim (or maybe a Nephilim-posessed Cas)? But as the Colt can't kill Lucifer, why would it work on his, arguably, more powerful child?

I think Dean is thinking something else happened to Cas when he is eyes glowed golden

[Idahoforspn]

19 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

According to Davy Perez, Dean picking up the lance was their nod to Dean's connection with Michael.  And I quote, "whether or not that pays in some way remains to be seen."

From his interview at the end of February.  

http://www.hypable.com/supernatural-davy-perez-tarantino-interview/

Thank you for that.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

1 hour ago, MysteryGuest said:

I thought the Colt looked melted when Daegon destroyed it?  It looks like it's just in two pieces now, which is not how I remember it. 

As I recall (could be wrong though - haven't rewatched that lately) - she melted it into two pieces.  Found this though:

Around 2:18 or so it where the part with Dagon and the colt starts.

[CluelessDrifter]

5 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

Thank you for that.

No problem.  I thought it might put your mind at ease to know the lance's future is an unknown rather than an outright nothing. :)

[catrox14]

37 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

If it was Jensen, it doesn't foreshadow anything. 

Even if Jensen did it of his own accord,  the editor could have left it out. None of the actors have say over the final edits. Even the director doesn't get that. It's between the network, the producers, and the editors. So someone made the choice to let that linger and leave whatever impression to the viewers. Some will see it as possible foreshadowing. Others may see it as Dean cleaning up the mess and disposing of the pieces. 

[Idahoforspn]

10 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Even if Jensen did it of his own accord,  the editor could have left it out. None of the actors have say over the final edits. Even the director doesn't get that. It's between the network, the producers, and the editors. So someone made the choice to let that linger and leave whatever impression to the viewers. Some will see it as possible foreshadowing. Others may see it as Dean cleaning up the mess and disposing of the pieces. 

I have been very discouraged with the writing this year so I guess I am in the "it's not foreshadowing" camp. It is good that I might be wrong though. It would be wonderful if Dean got to use the Lance. Would do a lot to bring me back into enjoying the season.

[Diane]

[goldy]

 

 

[ILoveReading]

I wonder if the young Dean stuff might be the s13 footage Jensen and Jared talked about. 

Because Im wondering where a flash back would really fit in.  Since the ep description says Sam and Dean are on their own in ep 22 that suggests Mary isn't with them for most of the episode.  Unless she comes in at the last moment and saves the day, but i'm not really sure how that would lead into a conversation about her deal or a flashback.

Unless, the flashback is centered around a nightmare, Dean has.

I wonder if Mary might make a similar deal that allows her to go back in time stop the yellow eyed demon before he can infect Sam and season 13 starts off as something similar to What is and What Should Never be.

Edited May 4, 2017 by ILoveReading

[rue721]

40 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Since the ep description says Sam and Dean are on their own in ep 22 that suggests Mary isn't with them for most of the episode.  Unless she comes in at the last moment and saves the day, but i'm not really sure how that would lead into a conversation about her deal or a flashback.

It might be Mary's flashback. Actually, I had kind of been assuming it would be Mary's flashback/dream/whatever. Although really, it could be anyone's.

Anybody else up for a YED point-of-view flashback of Nov 2, 1983? ;)

[Diane]

1 minute ago, rue721 said:

It might be Mary's flashback. Actually, I had kind of been assuming it would be Mary's flashback/dream/whatever. Although really, it could be anyone's.

Anybody else up for a YED point-of-view flashback of Nov 2, 1983? ;)

Good thought, it hadn't occurred to me that it could be Mary's flashback or dream. That would be new and interesting.

[DittyDotDot]

2 hours ago, rue721 said:

Anybody else up for a YED point-of-view flashback of Nov 2, 1983? ;)

Isn't that what we got in All Hell Breaks Loose when Yellow Eyes showed Sam that instant replay?

[rue721]

17 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Isn't that what we got in All Hell Breaks Loose when Yellow Eyes showed Sam that instant replay?

Honestly, I don't remember. I have been meaning to do a full on rewatch, so hopefully I'll find out (again) ;)

In my mind's eye, what I'm imagining is basically "a Day in the Life of Yellow Eyes" -- just showing him bumming around going through his day, including the infamous Mary is Burnt Alive on the Ceiling.

Isn't that a TV Trope? To watch the main action through the POV of a relatively minor or loner/disliked character?

[goldy]

Titles for last 3 episodes:

[Diane]

2 minutes ago, goldy said:

Titles for last 3 episodes:

Descriptions to go along with the titles:

Ep 21: There's Something About Mary : MARY VS. TONI BEVELL – Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) are alarmed when they learn hunters are being killed by suspicious “accidents” all over the country. They decide it is best to find Mary (guest star Samantha Smith) and make sure she’s safe. Meanwhile, Toni (guest star Elizabeth Blackmore) is back in the states and she and Mary face off. Writer: Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross-Leming Director: P.J. Pesce

EP 22: Who We Are: FAMILY - Caught in a dangerous situation, Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) only have each other to rely on. Meanwhile, the fight between the American Hunters and the British Hunters comes to a head. Writer: Robert Berens Director: John Showalter

EP 23: All Along the Watchtower: EPIC SEASON FINALE - Lucifer (Mark Pellegrino) battles Sam (Jared Padalecki), Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Castiel (Misha Collins) for control of his unborn child. Writer: Andrew Dabb Director: Robert Singer

[ILoveReading]

Given the way the anvils and sledge hammers were falling in this ep, I'm thinking Mary and one of the brother will die in the finale and the other will bring him back.

Or both brothers will die and Mary will have to choose which one to save.

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Given the way the anvils and sledge hammers were falling in this ep, I'm thinking Mary and one of the brother will die in the finale and the other will bring him back.

Or both brothers will die and Mary will have to choose which one to save.

I think Lady GettheFuckOuttaHere, will link her spellworks on Mary with some kind of residual left in Sam and try to control Sam via Mary.

[MysteryGuest]

I'm going to be pissed if they kill Mary off this season.  We're finally getting some actual mother/son relationship, so obviously it's time for her to die.  I get that Sam and Dean are not allowed to have anything good or nice in their lives, but seriously?  I hate that they brought her back just to screw them over a little more, and then when they finally get what they've wanted, they'll pull the rug out from under them again.  I'd like to think that they'll surprise me and not go there, but I'm finding it hard to be optimistic.  

And with pictures of both Claire and Garth on the Wall of Hunters, I'm thinking that at least one of them is going to bite it, too.  Fun times ahead!

[catrox14]

Sam is protecting Eileen.  I ship them pretty damn hard. Please don't kill her, SPN. 

 

[ILoveReading]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I think Lady GettheFuckOuttaHere, will link her spellworks on Mary with some kind of residual left in Sam and try to control Sam via Mary.

I hope they aren't going in this direction because it seems like they might be doing it with Cas and the baby.  Plus, we've already gone there with Sam multiple times.

[catrox14]

Just now, ILoveReading said:

I hope they aren't going in this direction because it seems like they might be doing it with Cas and the baby.  Plus, we've already gone there with Sam multiple times.

When did repetitive story lines ever stop this show?  It would be a parallel doncha know!

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

When did repetitive story lines ever stop this show?  It would be a parallel doncha know!

I know, but its wishful thinking.

[catrox14]

I figured once they had Sam say Dean's iconic line from the pilot that set the entire show and flip it for Mary, nothing is sacred.  Seriously. 

[nightwing877]

2 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I'm going to be pissed if they kill Mary off this season.  We're finally getting some actual mother/son relationship, so obviously it's time for her to die.  I get that Sam and Dean are not allowed to have anything good or nice in their lives, but seriously?  I hate that they brought her back just to screw them over a little more, and then when they finally get what they've wanted, they'll pull the rug out from under them again.  I'd like to think that they'll surprise me and not go there, but I'm finding it hard to be optimistic.  

And with pictures of both Claire and Garth on the Wall of Hunters, I'm thinking that at least one of them is going to bite it, too.  Fun times ahead!

me too, too predictable if she dies. Yet they will never truly go bold and off crowley or cas, we all know that. It is like why bother bringing her back, just to kill her off after 1 season. At least if she survives into 13, and dies at the end of season 13, 2 seasons is better for more story.

[goldy]

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Sam is protecting Eileen.  I ship them pretty damn hard. Please don't kill her, SPN. 

 

Is that Eileen? It looks like Toni to me.  and I don't think Sam is protecting her, he probably captured her when the BMOL stormed the bunker.

The girl running in the woods kinda looks like Eileen, but I'm not sure its her either, the clip was too fast and too dark.

[Boopsahoy]

1 hour ago, goldy said:

Is that Eileen? It looks like Toni to me.  and I don't think Sam is protecting her, he probably captured her when the BMOL stormed the bunker.

The girl running in the woods kinda looks like Eileen, but I'm not sure its her either, the clip was too fast and too dark.

Was that Dean getting shot in the preview???