Spoilers With Speculation

[AwesomO4000]

5 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Sam has never been particularly close to Cas even with the First Born hug and partners in crime. They do not have the same connection as Dean and Cas. To me Dean worrying about Cas is pretty much on par with how he worries about all the people he loves.

While I agree that Castiel and Dean have a "more profound bound" as Castiel puts it, I don't agree that Sam has not been close with Castiel - especially on Sam's part. Castiel seems to waver on that point sometimes, though he, too, has made it a point to protect Sam at times even at the threat to his own life.

And Dean's closeness with Castiel also means at times that he gets angrier at Castiel. The opening of season 7 is a good example of that. Sam, on the other hand, was more willing to forgive Cas and was the one to voice more concerns about him then after Dean had written Cas off as a lost cause. For me, Sam and Castiel are a different kind of close. It's not the kind of close that Dean and Castiel are that sometimes comes with the kind of hurt feelings and anger that can only come from caring about each other that much. But that also means that Sam and Castiel can forgive each other more easily perhaps - and that is especially the case on Sam's part since he was awfully forgiving of Cas. And for his part, Castiel at least cared enough to fix Sam even at the expense of his ow sanity.

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Sam didn't want the hunting life....not really...and then this season he realized he did. Sam didn't view the Bunker as home..until this season after 3 years of living there.

I disagree with this as well. Sam not wanting the hunting life pretty much ended for me in season 2. After that he more often said he didn't want the regular life, even talking about it disdainfully in "Swap Meat." By season 7, it was Sam's "normal" that helped to ground him. It was season 8 that was the aberration, so I was glad season 10 brought him back to his season 7 outlook.

As for the bunker, I think he's definitely more comfortable there, but even this season, he still referred to Baby as "home." I did like that he took  comfort in Dean's room when Dean was gone as well. But then again that he let Lucifer use his room...

[SueB]

I think the only direct fan influence has been the avoidance of having Dean and Cas on screen to avoid the queer baiting accusations since I think they are not going to pursue a romantic relationship with the two. And when the do have them I min screen they insert a no-homo moment to make it clear they aren't misleading people. 

Dont get me wrong, TPTB did queer bait for years and they are now overcompensating. But it means we lose a valuable on-screen relationship (Dean and Cas). 

Which pisses me off. I want that relationship on screen.  OTOH I have zero wank tolerance and I suspect they've taken a wank-minimizing approach. So, it is what it is. 

[7kstar]

3 hours ago, SueB said:

Dont get me wrong, TPTB did queer bait for years and they are now overcompensating. But it means we lose a valuable on-screen relationship (Dean and Cas). 

IA this is wrong and stupid.  I'm hopeful I'm interpreting the spoilers correctly.  It seems we are getting a Dean and Cas moment in the final...now what that will look like who knows but from reading different spoilers, no I can't remember which one, but my impression - we will a moment with the two.  Maybe with the new show runner, they will fix this.

I also think it's a problem to write for the approval of fans, because let's face it the fandom is wishy washy about so many things.  Therefore you can't please them all.  I think the only thing you have agreement on, is for Dean and Sam to work together and stop the force lying storytelling as it is so stale.  So they need to write the story well.

Sam's friendship with Cas doesn't have the emotional pull that Dean has.  But Sam wasn't the one that lost a very close relationship at age 4.  Dean usually only allows a few close to him so a lost is dramatic and Sam has the experience of college and making a group of friends.  Not sure I can express this part well, but if Sam was living the normal apple pie life, he would naturally have many friends.  His college days helped him to be less isolated.

Dean, however, has a trust issue and tends to let a few into his inner circle.  He doesn't quickly see someone as a close relationship.  Part of that is the fact that he is more practical about their life and how it will end.  Sam is more hopeful and I think that is the ingredient which makes work well together.  It allows them to cover more options when they do team together.

If the last ep's goal was to create a checklist of well we've given the fans what they expected and now they will give us something we want but not something we expect...Then this final could be a good thing if everyone worked together to make it the best it can be.

My best productions have come from collaboration.  When people are allowed to share their ideas and mix it with the process, the results can be outstanding.  I'm hopeful that this is what they are going for, not that they were trying to fix something.  From watching the JIBCon video's I got the spirit was more excitement of making sure that what they did worked with the vision.  I'm hopeful, but due to past disappointments skeptical as well. 

If they have found a direction that will make it an interesting choice, it might make next season compelling. 

[AwesomO4000]

2 hours ago, 7kstar said:

... Dean usually only allows a few close to him so a lost is dramatic and Sam has the experience of college and making a group of friends.  Not sure I can express this part well, but if Sam was living the normal apple pie life, he would naturally have many friends.  His college days helped him to be less isolated.

Dean, however, has a trust issue and tends to let a few into his inner circle.  He doesn't quickly see someone as a close relationship.  Part of that is the fact that he is more practical about their life and how it will end.  Sam is more hopeful and I think that is the ingredient which makes work well together.  It allows them to cover more options when they do team together.

I'm taking this to the Sam thread, since it's no so much speculation.

Edited May 22, 2016 by AwesomO4000

[7kstar]

4 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Not sure I can express this part well, but if Sam was living the normal apple pie life, he would naturally have many friends. 

 

4 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

But then again, even before that, my interpretation of the character has been maybe more like catrox's in that I thought that Sam generally felt awkward about himself, and even though he tried to make friends, deep down he felt like he didn't quite belong or that he was "different," and maybe he almost tried too hard to compensate as we saw in "Afterschool Special."** To me, Sam seemed unusually driven to a goal and less socially confident - in the pilot, Jessica had to talk him into going to the party and into socializing. Sam can "pretend" well, but in reality he's more awkward than that.

I'll try again.  Maybe this direction will help.  Some people have many friends but none are really close.  This is how I see Sam.  He made friends with Ellen, Jo, Bobby, Cas, Charlie, Sheriff Jody Mills and others but they aren't really close knit friends. Someone he can ask for help, but he also keeps them at a distance.

Dean starts out keeping them at a distance but when he opens the door he does it all the way.  They become family and he's loyal to them.  But he's not quick to say you're welcomed into my inner circle.  As we all know, if Sam is in danger...Sam trumps anyone else.

I can relate to Dean in this way.  I don't meet that many at a party.  I only have a few friends I call friends.  I have a friend that says all these people are her friends but really they just hang out together because they have some things in common.  She is much quicker to get phone numbers and etc from them.  I'm slow on the other-hand, but I've been betrayed a few times by supposedly close friends, so I am more guarded, I guess.  I use the example to try to make my thoughts a little clearer.  JMV

Edited May 22, 2016 by 7kstar

[AwesomO4000]

Ah, okay. I tend to differentiate between friends and colleagues, I guess you could call them.

I actually do think that Sam considers both Bobby and Castiel as "family." They just don't tend to relate to him as closely as they relate to Dean. And I don't think Sam thinks of family as maybe Dean does, in that I don't think Sam thinks that the relationship needs to be as all-life-consuming as maybe Dean does. Except for at present Dean who is pretty much Sam's focus now.

But truthfully, I tend to think Sam has more colleagues - hunting connections, people he keeps professional contact with, etc. - than even friends. Jody is an exception, and maybe to a lesser extent Garth, but I think Sam is used to people not relating to him - and I think his feeling of being "different" makes him accept that a bit. But I don't even think Sam "hangs out" with people much. It's not his thing, I don't think.

I can relate. Personal experience to explain my point. Please feel free to skip:

Spoiler

I don't "hang out" with casual friends either except work related get togethers with colleagues. I have a good time with them, but I don't see them socially much of any other time. Since college - and those friends even fell by the wayside very quickly for various trust reasons - I didn't have a close friend until the last couple of years. I had my hubby, and I was good with that. But hee - even now, my good friend is likely my good friend because we are both weird as hell and lack normal social skills. We get together once or twice a week to go out to or cook dinner together and/or watch a movie at my house, often also with my hubby. But that is all very new to me.

...so I get Sam. Socially, I've been and was Sam - except substitute a hubby for Dean - for a very long time. It's actually not an easy thing to break out of. You get comfortable with not having to watch what you say and to just do what you want, and not have to worry about other people liking or wanting to do something different. And I kind of see Sam as being in that place now.

[MysteryGuest]

I think Dean's always trying to replace the family he lost, so anyone he lets in does become family to him...Cas, Bobby, Jody, Charlie...even Crowley to a certain extent.  Sam had friends in college, but as soon as he took up hunting again, they were left behind.  He is certainly friendly with the people in their circle, and he does care about them, but I think he's more comfortable being on his own than Dean is.  He never had that family experience, so he doesn't constantly need to try to recreate it.

[SueB]

I bet it doesn't work

[catrox14]

I know the promo monkeys at the CW are idiots but even they aren't going to actually give away the actual solution to the problem in the promo. I mean SURELY they would not do THAT? So giving benefit of doubt on that point IMO, whatever we see Dean doing is a misdirect or Dean is bait to distract Amara from the real solution which will be with Sam. 

Chuck refused to kill Amara and he didn't want Lucifer or Castiel to be hurt or killed either. Surely Chuck had to have plan B through Z.

So here is my spec.

Sam wasn't afraid of Lucifer because Chuck was there to protect him and  Sam had an off-screen conversation which was referred to on-screen with Sam either volunteering to take on the Mark or God possibly went to Sam to ask if he would do it to save the universe. What if the reason we didn't see that conversation is because Chuck and Sam also agreed for Sam to be Lucifer's vessel again in order to get Lucifer out of Castiel (foreshadowed by Dean mentioning in Hell's Angel they needed another vessel). Chuck would pull Lucifer out of Sam and then he deals with Lucifer. Sam agrees because he feels protected and trusts Chuck now.  But the plan either went awry when Amara over came the Mark and tried to smite Lucifer but when we see him come out either he went into Sam because Sam had said yes already OR Chuck intervened and put Lucifer in Sam.

My spec is that Samifer appears in the finale and the cliffhanger is Amara and God are both dead but Samifer is alive and we get the End!Verse in a way we don't expect.

Edited May 23, 2016 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

I think the show is pretty straightforward and Lucifer has been killed. Maybe there was too little fanfare about it in the last episode but he is kaput. 

However, the promo monkeys are pretty clear that this soul bomb thing is not gonna work. I mean, Dean getting the BDH moment? Perish the thought. Amara might just teleport him away. Or just disarms the bomb or it has no effect on her. She might even "tempt" him with Mary. Then Chuck shows up and he apologizes and acknowledges that banishing her to solitary was cruel and offers to go with her this time. She accepts and they leave creation in peace together. Dean was just the red herring all Season. The "bond" with Amara held no meaning in the end. 

The tag to the episode will be Lady Toni Blabla getting off a plane, just arriving from England. Because the character needs to enter somewhere and we have no tweets of her working with the cast so far.   

[catrox14]

21 minutes ago, SueB said:

I bet it doesn't work

I don't see how ghost souls will work. I mean ghosts are tethered to this world because they have become corrupt. Even if Dean survives

 

Just now, Aeryn13 said:

I think the show is pretty straightforward and Lucifer has been killed. Maybe there was too little fanfare about it in the last episode but he is kaput. 

However, the promo monkeys are pretty clear that this soul bomb thing is not gonna work. I mean, Dean getting the BDH moment? Perish the thought. Amara might just teleport him away. Or just disarms the bomb or it has no effect on her. She might even "tempt" him with Mary. Then Chuck shows up and he apologizes and acknowledges that banishing her to solitary was cruel and offers to go with her this time. She accepts and they leave creation in peace together. Dean was just the red herring all Season. The "bond" with Amara held no meaning in the end. 

The tag to the episode will be Lady Toni Blabla getting off a plane, just arriving from England. Because the character needs to enter somewhere and we have no tweets of her working with the cast so far.   

 

Ugh I'm gonna be really fucking irritated if the season finale has a tag that does not include Dean or Sam.

But honestly. I think Cas vessel is going to be to badly damaged to survive and God will be too injured to make him a new vessel and Amara won't or can't do it. I think whatever conversation Dean and Cas have will be a goodbye. Either Cas dies and goes back to heaven.

OR

I would not put it past the show to have Dean tell Cas that he loves him, then the Jimmy Novak vessel dies but somehow Cas' grace ends up in a female vessel in the form of one Lady WhoCares and then the show can say "Look, it's Destiel. It's Castiel who Dean loves, right? So it doesn't matter what vessel you put Castiel in  right??" I swear to Gods..I would not be the LEAST bit surprised.

[Omegamom]

Whoa.  I would be so damned furious if that happens.  Just livid.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Omegamom said:

Whoa.  I would be so damned furious if that happens.  Just livid.

 

Oh believe me,I would be livid too. I think they would be IDIOTS to do that, but let's be real, when has idiocy prevented them from doing something?

[Aeryn13]

I`m pretty sure Misha is under contract for next Season so Cas is staying Cas. The female vessel, I think it is too late for that anyhow. Had Cas been in a female vessel from the start, yes, "Cas" and Dean would have hooked up. Back in Season 4. That`s why he hooked up with Anna who was supposed to be the main "angel" going forward. Just like, if "Ruby" had been a male demon/vessel, him and Sam would never have hooked up. They can bring in queer subtext and side characters/pairings but they will not touch the main characters.    

A declaration of love, I don`t see happening, Not romantic and not even just bromantic. It is to be understood that Dean loves Cas like a brother/friend but I doubt the actual words will be spoken.  

I`m just so incredibly bummed out because the promo makes it so clear that this is just a red herring. I imagine this is gonna be Dean`s last chance as a world-saving BDH moment. Likely, they are gonna scale back next year. I wanted one fucking thing, one, sigh.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

What if the reason we didn't see that conversation is because Chuck and Sam also agreed for Sam to be Lucifer's vessel again in order to get Lucifer out of Castiel (foreshadowed by Dean mentioning in Hell's Angel they needed another vessel). Chuck would pull Lucifer out of Sam and then he deals with Lucifer. Sam agrees because he feels protected and trusts Chuck now.  But the plan either went awry when Amara over came the Mark and tried to smite Lucifer but when we see him come out either he went into Sam because Sam had said yes already OR Chuck intervened and put Lucifer in Sam.

No.  Nononononononononono.  Please No.  First, I can't imagine Sam agreeing to become Lucifer's vessel, even for a short period, even with guck 'protecting' him.  Dealing with an outside manifestation is one thing, but dealing with him inside?  I just hope not.  Second, I would hate guck for all eternity if he had the plutonium balls to ask Sam to do it.  Just please, I really hope this isn't so.

[MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND]

38 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

would not put it past the show to have Dean tell Cas that he loves him, then the Jimmy Novak vessel dies but somehow Cas' grace ends up in a female vessel in the form of one Lady WhoCares and then the show can say "Look, it's Destiel. It's Castiel who Dean loves, right? So it doesn't matter what vessel you put Castiel in  right??" I swear to Gods..I would not be the LEAST bit surprise

How do you come up with these specs? I am always flabbergasted, but I also see how it can be true! Please noooooooooooooooooo!

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND said:

How do you come up with these specs? I am always flabbergasted, but I also see how it can be true! Please noooooooooooooooooo!

 

Oh, I've speculated about this scenario pretty much since Destiel became a thing that fandom pondered.

[SueB]

Just because the soul bomb doesn't work doesn't mean that Dean's safe or sitting on the sidelines. 

I mentioned this to a few a while back but I'll share with everyone, I keep insisting on this is going to be a cliffhanger for reasons in addition to the obvious (the obvious being if they know they have a S12, they are not going to wrap up).  The reason is that after a day of seeing Jensen in a few forums, when I had him sign my latest bottle of Johnny Walker Blue, I told him that I was saving the alcohol to get me through the final few episodes this year. And he kinda held up his finger (as in "hold on") and then wrote "Don't Hold Your Breath" above his autograph.  Which says to me "cliffhanger".  Of course he could be trolling me, but he's kinda a show fanboy sometimes and I don't think he was.

Things that DON'T feel like a cliffhanger:
- God & Amara going off into somewhere... the empty, the cage, a piece of grass on a planet in a different galaxy..
- Watching Lady BritishPerson get off a plane
- Cas', Crowley, Rowena, God, Amara's individual fate in the balance

What feels like a cliffhanger:
- One or both of the boys in jeopardy
- The world's annihilation is actually started
 

At JIBCon there were a few telling comments:
- Both saying that the finale sets up S12 - which would imply Lady BritishPerson story at a minimum and to me reinforces "cliffhanger"
- Both saying it's really been a four part finale, and that any one of the last three episodes could have been a season finale moment

Why I think it WON'T end up being another bait-n-switch of Sam for Dean:
- Because the writers already trolled the fandom with that theory LAST episode with Sam's aborted attempt to take on the Mark.  The last episode seemed to be a way of showing the fans that all the things WE'VE thought of are NOT going to be it. It's not going to be the joining of all of God's creations into one supernatural army that gets the job done. It's not going to be a bait-n-switch. 
- Because Jared, who holds onto spoilers even LESS than Jensen sometimes, didn't say anything about a "twist" or "they have a really cool approach to the finale" etc... that suggests the focus is shifting back to Sam (because yes, the Dean/Amara connection HAS been a focus).

Why I think the Dean/Amara connection is still key:
- Either Jensen was directed to put in all that body language and facial expressions regarding Amara or he decided to do it himself. Regardless, the last episode made the Dean/Amara connection yet again an identified issue. See Dean's face in response to Amara's anguish about her captivity.

- And then God LOOKED at Dean during this speech 

Quote

There's a value, a glory, in creation that's greater and truer than my pride, or my ego. Call it Grace call it Being whatever it is, it didn't come from My hands. It was there. Waiting to be born. It just is, as you and I just were.  Since you've been freed, I know that you've seen it. Felt it*.

*And he nods at Dean, who looks like he's been singled out at the birthday party again.  

Interestingly enough, Amara says "It doesn't have to be like this. I loved you..... Brother" And then God attempts to put her back in the cage.  

I can't help but feel the show is making the point that the cage is not "just".  That God putting her back there is the wrong answer.  I don't know the right answer but since Amara said it didn't have to be this way, I think there's a solution where she's NOT back into torment for billions of years.  

So... with this in mind, if Amara is not killed with the soul bomb and there's no God/Amara drifting off into the sunset (due to cliffhanger...), I think Dean is at least in jeopardy at the end of the episode if not being carted off with Amara.  

Edited May 23, 2016 by SueB

[catrox14]

9 minutes ago, SueB said:

I had him sign my latest bottle of Johnny Walker Blue, I told him that I was saving the alcohol to get me through the final few episodes this year. And he kinda held up his finger (as in "hold on") and then wrote "Don't Hold Your Breath" above his autograph.  Which says to me "cliffhanger".  Of course he could be trolling me, but he's kinda a show fanboy sometimes and I don't think he was

Or he was saying "Start drinking it with 11.18 and don't stop and buy more? " LOL Dude is such a little troll

[SueB]

24 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Or he was saying "Start drinking it with 11.18 and don't stop and buy more? " LOL Dude is such a little troll

I think my response was "Oh dammit, it's a cliffhanger... you little..." ("shit" was implied but not actually verbalized) and he laughed.

[catrox14]

Okay. What. The . Hell.

I swear to gods you guys, I didn't realize this when I made my Samifer prediction upthread. I watched The End last night because my DVR caught it from TNT last week. And then today I'm merrily watching the promo and was like WAIT WAIT WAIT...that building looks mighty familiar. So I went back on watched the end of THE END again..and I swear to gods it looks like the same building in The End where Future!Dean met Samifer.

"Whatever you do, you will always end up ....here. Whatever choices you make. Whatever details you alter, WE will always end up ...here.   I win. So....I win". 

Dean woke up in a field of flowers face down at the beginning of this season and he woke up face down in the leaves and grass in The End after Future!Dean knocks out  2010!Dean who is also wearing a  'Blue Jacket of Bad Decisions" (tm @SueB), like he is 11.23.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence with reusing a location (if it is the same building) and with Dean wearing the same color jacket but ...what if it's not....(but I'm sure it is). 

Sigh. This is almost a cruel joke now LOL

Edited May 23, 2016 by catrox14

[catrox14]

Okay I'm realllly not being Chicken Little here but the CW just released their Fall trailer for ALL their shows and Supernatural literally does not have ONE frame in the trailer. (It's in the media thread)

This is making me really nervous. I mean we know for a fact that the guys are coming back for s12 RIGHT? And if they are....how can they not be in a CW trailer for ALL the shows??

[MysteryGuest]

I can't imagine that Jensen and Jared would say they were renewed for season 12, if they weren't.  I just think it's the usual neglect that SPN seems to get from TPTB.  It definitely sucks.

[catrox14]

The show was renewed by the network for s12. But what if something has changed in the boys life and they don't want to continue or there are creative differences.

Even if it's just lip service they have always been in the trailer for ALL the shows.  I don't get it. Maybe that's why there was so much collaboration and why Roth thanked Jensen for setting up the show for a great s12? It's set up to go on without Dean and Sam?  Maybe that's why Jensen hopes we will be just as forgiving as we always have been.

This is just strange. And it's making me a little paranoid LOL

(Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get me)

Edited May 24, 2016 by catrox14

[Omegamom]

If I remember correctly, they got only one or two seconds in the fall promo last year.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Omegamom said:

If I remember correctly, they got only one or two seconds in the fall promo last year.

And that's what I expected for this season. But this time they have NOTHING.Literally nothing. I have never seen that before. 

[NoWillToResist]

On 2016-05-22 at 9:26 PM, MysteryGuest said:

 they've had Sam show little to no concern for Cas, which also seems out of character for him.  

At Jibcon, Jensen almost spoiled something from the finale. A fan asked about the differing reactions from Sam and Dean re: the Casifer situation. Jensen indicated that Sam was more "the big picture" whereas Dean was more worried about his friend. Also, I think the show actually touched upon this quite well and kept them in character (and showed the boys' differing relationships with Cas) when Sam was all "Cas' choice deserves to be respected" and Dean was "even if it kills him?" That small exchange satisfactorily explained the boys' relationships with Cas to me. Dean goes to the wall for his loved ones, whether they want him to or not. ;) 

Regardless, if Jensen is to be believed, it seems like there will be a big scene involving Dean and Cas where it apparently becomes clear exactly WHY Dean cares "more" about Cas. I am both excited and scared. :D

 

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

But honestly. I think Cas vessel is going to be to badly damaged to survive and God will be too injured to make him a new vessel and Amara won't or can't do it. I think whatever conversation Dean and Cas have will be a goodbye. Either Cas dies and goes back to heaven.

OR

I would not put it past the show to have Dean tell Cas that he loves him, then the Jimmy Novak vessel dies but somehow Cas' grace ends up in a female vessel in the form of one Lady WhoCares and then the show can say "Look, it's Destiel. It's Castiel who Dean loves, right? So it doesn't matter what vessel you put Castiel in  right??" I swear to Gods..I would not be the LEAST bit surprised.

DELETE THIS! Don't give them any ideas!!! :D

About this time every year, I worry about the fate of Cas. Story-wise, he just seems so expendable but actor/ratings wise, I don't think he is, so every year, those two competing opinions wage war in my head as I wonder whether Cas/Misha will return.

I admit there is a tiny, shit-disturbing part of me which would like to witness the fallout of your second scenario. ;)

[DittyDotDot]

53 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Okay I'm realllly not being Chicken Little here but the CW just released their Fall trailer for ALL their shows and Supernatural literally does not have ONE frame in the trailer. (It's in the media thread)

This is making me really nervous. I mean we know for a fact that the guys are coming back for s12 RIGHT? And if they are....how can they not be in a CW trailer for ALL the shows??

You know, they could've said they were renewing for S12, but in reality this is it and they didn't want to spoil it. They're probably patting themselves on their backs right now! 

Sorry, I shouldn't mess with people like that. I don't think they would keep talking about S12, and introduce this new Lady Whatshername character, and hire new writers; and name a new showrunner if there wasn't a S12. 

So, the sky's probably not falling...or at least I don't think it is... . ;)

[catrox14]

15 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

You know, they could've said they were renewing for S12, but in reality this is it and they didn't want to spoil it. They're probably patting themselves on their backs right now!

I can take the snark. Things change in TV all the time. SH hid Nicole Beharie's exit pretty fucking well until they killed her off and are facing a shit storm over it.

But you know I already said I'm probably being paranoid.

Edited May 24, 2016 by catrox14

[7kstar]

It is on the lineup.  Season 12 will move back to Thursday.  They have said it will continue as long as the ratings hold and the boys want to do it.  So it's back to they have a strong fan base, we need to spend money on...If it was Friday again, that would be more worrisome. :)

I'm excited and nervous about the final.  Please don't let me hate it...please, pretty please!

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, 7kstar said:

It is on the lineup.  Season 12 will move back to Thursday.  They have said it will continue as long as the ratings hold and the boys want to do it.  So it's back to they have a strong fan base, we need to spend money on...If it was Friday again, that would be more worrisome. :)

I'm excited and nervous about the final.  Please don't let me hate it...please, pretty please!

I know all this. But things can change. I already said I'm probably being paranoid. LOL Geez.

[SueB]

Just remembered, Pete Roth sent a note to Jensen regarding his performance in the finale.  I really think that scene in the garden is going to be epic. And hurt.

Is it Wednesday?  I have action-paralysis right now.  Like, I can't DO anything I should because I'm thinking about the finale.  

 

And I know catrox is just voicing her fears... it's natural to have them but I'm not worried either.  The boys frankly love the show. They will not go quietly into that good night.  Like, ever.  When they go out it will be with plenty of warning, plenty of fanfare. The network and the studio owe that to them and frankly, would want to milk the ratings for it.  

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, SueB said:

Is it Wednesday?  I have action-paralysis right now.  Like, I can't DO anything I should because I'm thinking about the finale.  

 

SAME Lol

[DittyDotDot]

10 hours ago, SueB said:

I bet it doesn't work

Okay, I finally watched this promo. I know, I know...I blame it on you people. I have stuck to my guns and haven't watched one for weeks, but you people are talking about stuff and I just can't resist...sigh. I'm such a loooooser! ;)

Anyhoo, I'm actually thinking the soul bomb will work. I mean sure, they spelled it out on the promo so it seems unlikely, but I think the twist will be something like the end of S7 where the weapon works as advertised, but also has an unadvertised kick. They should probably put a warning on the label. ;) 

 

ETA: Forgot...sooo, they're gonna go get themselves a Slimer or two, eh?

Edited May 24, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[7kstar]

"I don't have a choice"...yikes  this may be the final in a way we didn't expect.  If it bombs well we were warned.  :)  Try to keep expectations low and just focus on his pretty eyes...

[7kstar]

10 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

The tag to the episode will be Lady Toni Blabla getting off a plane, just arriving from England. Because the character needs to enter somewhere and we have no tweets of her working with the cast so far.   

I'm confused where is this idea coming from?

[catrox14]

15 minutes ago, 7kstar said:

"I don't have a choice"...yikes  this may be the final in a way we didn't expect.  If it bombs well we were warned.  :)  Try to keep expectations low and just focus on his pretty eyes...

Honestly, the  "I don't have a choice" makes me wonder if he's offering himself up for 'merger' because something went haywire.

[ZennyKenny]

Wonder if the soul bomb kills Dean and he ends up in the Empty as the cliffhanger?

[call me ishmael]

11 hours ago, ZennyKenny said:

Wonder if the soul bomb kills Dean and he ends up in the Empty as the cliffhanger?

You know I have been assuming that the shot of Dean looking up at the sky was him seeing something(one) leaving.  But what if it is someone arriving?  Maybe that is him having to face Amara or some of the angels?

[Omegamom]

Given that Rowena was staring at the sky at the end of last week's episode, I think Dean may be staring at the same thing.  My spec: There's a Cloud O' Darkness(TM) spreading across the sky, engulfing the sun (but slowly).  Dean is looking up at it warily, wondering how much time he has left to get Amara to the cloister and set off the soul bomb, before the CoD engulfs everything.

And now I have "There's a little black spot on the sun today..." running through my head.

Hah!  Maybe that's the cliffhanger!  The soul bomb fizzles, or Amara just eats it and goes "Bwahahaha!", and we're left with the CoD engulfing the sun!  ;-)  Like some of us thought might happen at the start of this season...

Edited May 24, 2016 by Omegamom
Earworm! And further spec!

[catrox14]

21 minutes ago, call me ishmael said:

You know I have been assuming that the shot of Dean looking up at the sky was him seeing something(one) leaving.  But what if it is someone arriving?  Maybe that is him having to face Amara or some of the angels?

Amara materialized behind Dean but I like your theory that he sees someone arriving vs leaving.

Maybe it's Michael. I don't care what Lucifer or Chuck said about Michael not being ready to fight. Chuck and Lucifer both lie or obfuscate the truth. 

I think that could have been a big fat red herring the whole time. If the cage rattled enough for Lucifer to be let out, why not Michael?   Maybe Crowley and Rowena struck a deal with Dean to get Michael out of the Cage behind Sam and Chuck's backs. I'm sure that won't actually happen, but fuck it, I'm throwing it out there as legit spec.

Edited May 24, 2016 by catrox14

[ZennyKenny]

7 minutes ago, Omegamom said:

Given that Rowena was staring at the sky at the end of last week's episode, I think Dean may be staring at the same thing.  My spec: There's a Cloud O' Darkness(TM) spreading across the sky, engulfing the sun (but slowly).  Dean is looking up at it warily, wondering how much time he has left to get Amara to the cloister and set off the soul bomb, before the CoD engulfs everything.

And now I have "There's a little black spot on the sun today..." running through my head.

That's a good theory. It doesn't necessarily have to be a someone who he is looking at.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I'm confused where is this idea coming from?

Someone, maybe Jim Michaels? tweeted something about needing a plane. Probably for an exterior shot. The character is supposed to be British as far as I know. And the actress herself didn`t tweet anything about working with other cast members so far, nor vice versa. Yet the casting announcement clearly said she is gonna be in the Finale as well as recurring in Season 12. 

Since the episode itself seems full with dealing with God and Amara - and features all the regulars plus Billie, likely Mary Winchester on top of things - I`d say the only reasonably place to introduce the new character is as an episodic tag. Or at least just by herself as a mysterious figure. My guess is she is a European MOL or WOL as the case may be and this will set up whatever storyline happens in Season 12.

I know JP said at JIB that the Finale is part of a larger story arc but as far as I know Jensen said the opposite, namely that the Amara/God storyline will be wrapped. There may or may not be a cliffhanger in terms of the fate of the brothers, one or both, but I think the episode will offer a definite ending to both Amara and God. Probably they`ll both go away. 

 

Quote

Given that Rowena was staring at the sky at the end of last week's episode, I think Dean may be staring at the same thing.  My spec: There's a Cloud O' Darkness(TM) spreading across the sky, engulfing the sun (but slowly).  Dean is looking up at it warily, wondering how much time he has left to get Amara to the cloister and set off the soul bomb, before the CoD engulfs everything.

I agree. She said she was gonna destroy creation and as the Darkness that would be a way. Blocking out the sun at least kills nature and human life. Demons and angels, no idea. Maybe.

I`m picturing the scene from Angel where the Beast basically created an ongoing eclipse over the LA area. Maybe it gets dimmer and dimmer during the episode. That would actually an easy effect to accomplish via lighting and filters.

There is also a scene in the promo where Dean and Sam seem to be looking up in worry. Now they may look at a particularly tall building or the sky in that scene, it`s too short to be clear.

I just hope the scene with Chuck and Amara in the garden takes place before the scene with Dean and Amara. Last thing I want/need is for Dean to fail or never get his moment because Chuck comes in, teleports him out of there and handles the situation alone. Could have done that right from the start. 

In the last episode where Dean asked Sam what he was supposed to do while everyone fought and Sam took on the Mark and Sam said something about commanding the troups. Which was ridiculous because Dean did no such thing. He just stood there and watched. Nothing more. Noone really "commanded" the troups if you get down to it. But that was some extremely silly lampshading of bystander-dom.    

Edited May 24, 2016 by Aeryn13

[SueB]

https://twitter.com/cw_spn/status/735194556069601280

 

Thank Chuck they didn't wait until tomorrow.   I needed this tidbit.  And they've left Lucifer's status vague as of this clip. But he's not in Cas so YaY!

[catrox14]

My heart. Dean looked almost as relieved as when he found Cas in Purgatory.

But I swear to Gods. They better not be fucking with us. That better be Cas and not Lucifer pretending to be Cas again.  I'll cut someone if it's a fakeout.

[AwesomO4000]

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

In the last episode where Dean asked Sam what he was supposed to do while everyone fought and Sam took on the Mark and Sam said something about commanding the troups. Which was ridiculous because Dean did no such thing. He just stood there and watched. Nothing more. Noone really "commanded" the troups if you get down to it. But that was some extremely silly lampshading of bystander-dom.

On first watch I didn't take Dean's question or Sam's answer as referring to that particular moment only. I thought that they both meant in general. As in if Sam was debilitated from taking on the mark, Dean would need to "command the troops," because they would still be there after Amara was hopefully locked back up. The witches appeared to be dead, but Sam and Dean didn't know that, and there were still a whole bunch of demons at least around, and if Crowley was out of commission (his fate was uncertain), someone would have to reign them in and keep an eye on them in the future.

The problem with allying with bad guys is that once the fight is over, they are still bad guys and might have to be dealt with.

But I haven't done a proper rewatch yet, so I can't be sure of my interpretation here.

[NoWillToResist]

Even without sound, my heart is happy. :D

I lip read "...Dean?", "Lucifer is gone" and "I don't know" (presumably the latter is due to being asked what happened to Lucifer?)

*happy goopy sigh* Dean's reaction to "...Dean?" killed me. Jensen's face changed from angry/suspicious to hopeful so quickly. And then his whole body turns toward Cas and he gets a twitch of a smile when he hears that Lucifer is out of Cas and just....ugh, fuck. These two kill me. :D

And after he got Cas to stand, it looks like he still kept his hand on him. Aw. Excuse me while I melt into a puddle...

But Cas' shitty dad is right there. They better be allowed to have a conversation, or Imma be PISSED.

Edited May 24, 2016 by NoWillToResist

[SueB]

2 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

On first watch I didn't take Dean's question or Sam's answer as referring to that particular moment only. I thought that they both meant in general. As in if Sam was debilitated from taking on the mark, Dean would need to "command the troops," because they would still be there after Amara was hopefully locked back up. The witches appeared to be dead, but Sam and Dean didn't know that, and there were still a whole bunch of demons at least around, and if Crowley was out of commission (his fate was uncertain), someone would have to reign them in and keep an eye on them in the future.

The problem with allying with bad guys is that once the fight is over, they are still bad guys and might have to be dealt with.

But I haven't done a proper rewatch yet, so I can't be sure of my interpretation here.

Honestly, I thought Berens was trolling the fans MOST of the episode but definitely with that one.  He knows there's bickering about who gets what spotlight.  While what you say is accurate, I personally suspect the comment is in there just to yank the fans who will complain about one or the other "sitting on the sidelines".  While I think it's reasonable for Dean to ask that question, BTW, I thought Sam's answer of "command the troops" was a little OTT.  While I PERSONALLY believe that Dean is the leader of Team Free Will, they are definitely following Team God in this particular battle.  So Chuck/God is the commander.  OTOH, I also agree that AFTER the dust settles, Dean has to put the various bad guys back into a state of low threat (e.g. Crowley, Rowena, Lucifer) with or without God's help.  Because the outcome is uncertain, making sure that someone is around for clear-headed closure is required.

[catrox14]

13 minutes ago, NoWillToResist said:

Even without sound, my heart is happy. :D

I lip read "...Dean?", "Lucifer is gone" and "I don't know" (presumably the latter is due to being asked what happened to Lucifer?)

*happy goopy sigh* Dean's reaction to "...Dean?" killed me. Jensen's face changed from angry/suspicious to hopeful so quickly. And then his whole body turns toward Cas and he gets a twitch of a smile when he hears that Lucifer is out of Cas and just....ugh, fuck. These two kill me. :D

And after he got Cas to stand, it looks like he still kept his hand on him. Aw. Excuse me while I melt into a puddle...

But Cas' shitty dad is right there. They better be allowed to have a conversation, or Imma be PISSED.

Yep. Dean had one hand on Cas' shoulder and then as Cas crossed in front of him, Dean switched to his other hand and kept it on Cas the entire time.  I'M FINE....just fine...

Just for the embedded version. Thanks @SueB for bringing this over!

[Aeryn13]

Quote

On first watch I didn't take Dean's question or Sam's answer as referring to that particular moment only.

I did, 100 %, which made that line of dialogue the most ridiculous thing in the entire episode for me. Which is saying something. So, I can do without a replay of it in the Finale. Only this time for real.