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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

There is a Jared press room interview (can`t find the link right now) where he says that for once you see Sam be fully human and do stuff to other full humans you wouldn`t expect.

 

He also specifically mentioned the role reversal that so far Sam has been the one touched by the Supernatural while Dean has been the human guy and now their roles are switched. So, demon blood is SO out to me. Thank God.

 

Personally, I loved the clip for that reason. That for once, it`s not the usual "Sam is the goal" and Dean is solely the "brother of".. For the first time in the entire history of the show, it is the other way around. Sure, some themes are the same but I waited for this flip for nearly ten freaking years now so I see this as the most original stuff they have done on the show since introducing the angels in Season 4.

 

Now maybe (possibly) they will screw it up as badly but if it were one more Season with Sam having some supernatural specialness and Dean being just the chaser-of-Sam, I might have eaten my own arm in frustration. 

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

It seems very likely to me that Sam is going to be drinking demon blood, if you listen to what Dean says that in that preview:

 

"I got a hell of a lot more running through me than just demon juice."

"There ain't much difference from what I turned into from what you already are."

"I know what you did when you went looking for me. And I know how far you went."

 

I thought he was saying he was more than than your average garden-variety demon--he also has the Mark of Cain. I don't know, but I don't know how demon blood would help Sam find Dean. I'm imagining he tortured some folks or made a really bad deal that will come back to bite him in the ass.

catrox14

catrox14

He killed Alastair and Lilith because he believed the demon blood was necessary. I realize that Ruby claims it was always in him, but I don't know whether Sam really ever believed that about himself. I really could see Sam being desperate enough to believe that if he did it again, he could either exorcise the demon out of Dean or have the power to kill him outright if need be.

Aeryn13

Aeryn13

 

I really could see Sam being desperate enough to believe that if he did it again, he could either exorcise the demon out of Dean

 

Would be pretty embarassing if afterwards he realized, he was left with a soulless Dean because Dean`s soul has been changed into being demonic. If you take it out, there is no spare left or something. And I don`t think either exorcism or his powers work as anything other than pulling the entire "demonic soul" out. Just usually there is a body and hopefully an alive host person with a soul left. 

 

What they need for Demon!Dean is more like a soul cleanser, a "stain begone" that makes it human again. They are probably gonna bring in the human blood cure back for this. Which, meh. I really, really don`t want that. This bs annoyed me with Crowley enough last year. Find something else, writers.

 

Hopefully, they have at least stepped away from the trials. I`d HATE it if that nugget came back.  

catrox14

catrox14

Assuming Carver is telling the truth and that he had this arc planned from s8 to s10 then the entire blood curing thing was not just for Crowley, and I can't fathom Sam not at least trying to do that with Dean. That was there for a bigger reason than Crowley. I'd wager that Sam doesn't really understand  just how powerful Dean probably is.

 

For me, the main reason for Sam to resort to demon blood is to gear up for killing Dean if necessary. Sam didn't exorcise Alastair, he just straight up killed him inside the meatsuit.

oliverwendell

oliverwendell

 

I'm still betting on that demon curing thing...I bet it cures all that ails a demon soul. ;)

 

Somebody somewhere in some interview said something about how the big problem is that if they reverse the effect of the Mark, Dean will revert back to his natural state, which is human, but dead.  I'm not sure if the demon cure thing would be and end-run around that obstacle or not. 

SueB

SueB

  • Author
(edited)

 

SPN family, I have a problem. I have watched that clip a stupid number of times.  And every time, it's HOLY CRAP, I can't believe what I'm seeing and I get chills.

Sorry dude, I'm just going to enable you at this point.

 

Thinky thoughts since last I posted about the sizzler (which was more a teaser than a sizzler...but I'm not complaining):

- Toying with the idea that maybe Dean wants Sam to kill him, adding in that the knife couldn't kill Cain .. it occurred to me that Dean is testing Sam here to see if he WILL attempt to slit his throat.  Then I went on Tumblr and read about 100 theories already taking that concept and running with it.  (Note to Pete Marshall... did I ever thank you for introducing me to the "app that ate my brain"... yeesh, I cannot keep up with that app...)  Anyway, two thoughts from multiple Tumblr sources that I ascribe to upon further reflection:

-- Dean doesn't want to kill Sam.  He doesn't need an axe to do it.  Rationale: IF Dean is able to bust out of being tied up, actually teleport (IF that is what the sudden appearance behind Sam implies), and do other cool demon shit -- then why bother with the damn axe if he really wants he can kill him in an easier fashion. So the purpose is to potentially to see if Sam will kill him.

-- Not only is Dean testing Sam here, he may have let himself be captured in order to stop Sam from doing the dark shit he's doing.  My take: this may be a valid concept -- especially if Dean thinks he's doing it just cause he's tired of 'playing this game'.  Explaining further.. if Dean is aware Sam has been searching for him and intentionally staying away, Dean could rationalize that he just wants Sam to give up. OTOH, there may be a wee touch of bro-love in there that also wants him to stop doing dark things.

 

Other data or thinky thoughts (that I pieced together from interviews or just random logic):

- There is a Dean/Cas scene in this episode (per Misha Collins... one of the billion video interviews I saw in the last 24 hrs where Misha said the only scene Jensen directed him in were ones with both Cas and Dean involved so Jensen didn't give him too much shit)

- The episode timeline I think has the tied up confrontation first, Dean breaks out and stalks and confronts Sam, and I'm going to guess somehow Sam gets away and then turns on some sort of emergency lockdown (the red lights).  Rationale: It doesn't make sense that the lights would go normal red then normal -- this places that hallway moment in the middle, not the end.  So I'm thinking the red lights come after.  (logical reasoning) Which leads me to...

- Sam may have a trick up his sleeve that he prepared for during the two months that we didn't see him.  First, even if he doesn't know he's a demon he knows he's dead.  So, best case scenario he's been resurrected by a good guy.  More likely scenario, his body is off being used by someone (maybe he's a zombie or something).  And of course he has to consider the demon option and/or Crowley involvement.  In most scenarios, he's got to be prepared for an unfriendly entity that is either Dean or might have Dean knowledge and access to the bunker.  Sam, being Sam, would be wise to change the freaking locks OR create some trap inside the bunker if some version of unfriendly Dean comes thru the door.  So... I think Sam flipping that big-switch is Sam having a trap for Dean.  (logical reasoning)

-- I bet Dean does not separate from Sam after this episode.  Rationale: they are not likely to have them on separate stories the entire season.  The 200th episode is EP5.  It's light-hearted, musical-ish, "Supernatural" as a play meta.  I'm thinking an actual play, somehow financed by that rich Dutch guy or something.  So these two still be in a death-match kind of struggle doesn't make sense to me.  And in fact, it seems they need EP4 to help transition them to the musical-ish episode. Further, by EP3 is where we usually have the rhythm of the first half of the season establish.  SO... this says to me that there has to be some agreement/some truce.   Sam HAS to have something to offer Dean to stop him from continuing to howl at the moon.  (logical reasoning)  NOTE: Crowley has has enough howling at the moon with Dean by EP-3 and thinks Dean is out of hand (Mark Sheppard interview).  This means Crowley is ready to let Sam have a go at Dean. Maybe he's even helping? IDK.  Now WHAT could Sam offer/threaten to make Dean stop rambling around in hedonistic style?  NO CLUE.  Need more data. 

 

There... hope that enables or distracts you....

 

ETA: I find that many of my thinky thoughts have often been thought of independently on somewhere else.  If I know that, I try to state at least where I think I got them from.  "Logical reasoning" means I pulled it out of my own dark spot as far as I know.

Edited by SueB
oliverwendell

oliverwendell

(edited)

SueB, excellent thinky thoughts.  I agree with most of them, except that I doubt Dean has any humane ulterior motives vis-a-vis Sam.  What I got from Jensen's CC interviews is that Demon Dean Does. Not. Give. A. Shit.  About anything.  Including Sam. 

 

I'm quite looking forward to Demon Dean, I must say.  Like Aeryn said, any form of Alterna-Dean is a refreshing change after 9 years of various Alterna-Sams.  I hope the writers and Jensen have a rollicking good time with it.  As for me, I'm going to enjoy it while it lasts, because I think it will be over by episode 5.  I just don't see how the 200th episode, a supposed "musical-ish love letter to the fans," can have any Dean in it but Original Flavor Dean. 

Edited by fourteenwords
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7kstar

7kstar

SueB, excellent thinky thoughts.  I agree with most of them, except that I doubt Dean has any humane ulterior motives vis-a-vis Sam.  What I got from Jensen's CC interviews is that Demon Dean Does. Not. Give. A. Shit.  About anything.  Including Sam. 

 

I'm quite looking forward to Demon Dean, I must say.  Like Aeryn said, any form of Alterna-Dean is a refreshing change after 9 years of various Alterna-Sams.  I hope the writers and Jensen have a rollicking good time with it.  As for me, I'm going to enjoy it while it lasts, because I agree with SueB that it will be over by episode 5.  I just don't see how the 200th episode, a supposed "musical-ish love letter to the fans," can have any Dean in it but Original Flavor Dean. 

In a Jensen Interview, I know there has been a few, he said to prepare for directing, he went back and watched all the high points of the series.  So it would also aid him in preparing for playing Demon Dean and he has said since the end of last season he didn't know if he would play Demon Dean Like Season 3 Demon Dean.

 

Right now I'm excited which also scares me because when I get excited, usually I get a bit of a let down because I set the bar too high. 

SueB

SueB

  • Author

Right now I'm excited which also scares me because when I get excited, usually I get a bit of a let down because I set the bar too high.

Which is a good reminder for me not to get to committed to any notions. Honestly, if the best moment in the first three episodes of Season X is Demon!Dean pulling a 'Here's Johnny!' Moment, I can live with it. It's a great moment.

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7kstar

7kstar

Have been watching Season 3 and Sin City had some really interesting ideas and one that could work for season 10.  Not all Demon's are bad and they have their beliefs and who is really more evil, demons or humans.  This sounds like it could be a set up for Sam being human and doing bad things motivated by saving his brother and Dean following his path now that he is a demon.

 

Another theme is also running threw 3 & 4 which could tie into Season 10.  Before Sam kills the crossroad demon, she taunts him by aren't you tired of having to clean up your big brother's messes.  Of course Dean's biggest mess this season is the consequences of taking the mark.

 

Will be interesting since Carver was really invested in season 3 how much he will use these themes in Season 10. 

 

I did like one comment from Jared, How the fans forgive them for things they don't like and continue to support the show and even want it to stay on the air.  I just hope that some of the things pay off this season.

 

On a side note, Mark is so funny about being upset about not getting a doll made after him.  The chaos that shows up is certainly entertaining for some good laughs and lately I can use all the laughs I can get.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

As much as I will enjoy watching Jensen do great things with Demon!Dean, I'm still really struggling with the "which is really the monster" thing that I KNEW Carver was setting up with the attempts to humanize Crowley and make Garth a lovable werewolf and even Benny(who I adored) a not bad guy vampire.

 

It bothers me because the show has been fighting demons and monsters and occasionally questioning who is the real monster at points. The Winchesters are the flawed heroes yet I always felt there was a clear divider about the Winchesters fighting the good fight and saving people, hunting things.  Even with Sam's demon blood arc his motives and intentions were because he thought he was doing it for the right reasons, for the most part, combined with his clear need to feel powerful. But even then Sam never went full EVIL. I don't count Soulless Sam because it wasn't like he made the choice to come back soulless.  (I wonder if they were thinking of making Sam a demon at any point?).

 

Dean was the constant "flawed hairless ape". He messed up a lot but he got a lot right and did a lot more good than bad (Shut up, Sam ;). He would do anything to keep Earth safe for humanity which is why he wanted to close off Heaven and Hell. 

 

I know Dean made a choice to take on the MoC because he was so depressed and loathed himself and the choices he made, and he really didn't care about the consequences but man making him a demon...is still just almost too much.  Even just from that clip, I  am already missing that I dunno, for lack of a better word, "innocence" about Dean. I am so afraid that I will end up hating Dean because the way Jensen is describing Demon!Dean is that he is nothing but an asshole:(.  I know I shouldn't prejudge but man I'm still worried :(.

Edited by catrox14
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)

After nine years and Dean getting more and more burdened and every progess he made towards a healthier outlook on himself and life be quickly and summarily regressed, maybe this drastic road is the only one left to take.

 

Granted, it leaves room for more and epic guilt afterwards - like we didn`t have enough of that as an "arc" or even a fucking character trait by this point - but it could be so big, it actually leads to the opposite direction in the end. Demon!Dean is described as the ultimate carefree guy. He is not out and out doing evil as a mission, he doesn`t have the goal to take over hell or even cause as much harm as possible or anything. He just apparently doesn`t give a shit. About anything, Sam, the car, the world, hunting, Cas, Crowley, himself. Nothing. 

 

Now this will lead to violent situations because no way a guy with an attitude like that won`t get into one fight after another but being free and unburdened is something he didn`t have. Not after the fire Mary died in anyways. So maybe if he can get it out of his system now in one feel (demonic) swoop, afterwards he can actually achieve the middle ground he never could before. Like, be a good and heroic guy again but not crushing under it.

 

As for how dark he`ll go, I have my fears the writers will screw it up because they have the common sense of a fly. It`s all "dog-fucking and slave collars yay" and then going "wow, this was maybe tasteless and offensive? I never would have guessed" afterwards.

 

If so, I will not hate the character for it but the writers. Although personally I have a high tolerance for actual dark arcs. I was one of maybe three people who was annoyed when the lead in the Arrow show made a vow not to kill anymore in Season 2 because I was cool with him just offing the bad guys then and there. What annoys me more are like the white-washy beigeness they did with Sam previously. I can totally take a character losing it, slaughtering people in the thousands and then buy a redemption story and see them as a hero (again). And Dean IS a demon so it`s not like fully human Dean does the deeds. Yes, it is Dean`s soul but not the soul as he previously had it which is the point. Soulless Sam was parts of Sam as well, just not the whole thing.   

Edited by Aeryn13
7kstar

7kstar

As much as I will enjoy watching Jensen do great things with Demon!Dean, I'm still really struggling with the "which is really the monster" thing that I KNEW Carver was setting up with the attempts to humanize Crowley and make Garth a lovable werewolf and even Benny(who I adored) a not bad guy vampire.

 

It bothers me because the show has been fighting demons and monsters and occasionally questioning who is the real monster at points. The Winchesters are the flawed heroes yet I always felt there was a clear divider about the Winchesters fighting the good fight and saving people, hunting things.  Even with Sam's demon blood arc his motives and intentions were because he thought he was doing it for the right reasons, for the most part, combined with his clear need to feel powerful. But even then Sam never went full EVIL. I don't count Soulless Sam because it wasn't like he made the choice to come back soulless.  (I wonder if they were thinking of making Sam a demon at any point?).

 

Dean was the constant "flawed hairless ape". He messed up a lot but he got a lot right and did a lot more good than bad (Shut up, Sam ;). He would do anything to keep Earth safe for humanity which is why he wanted to close off Heaven and Hell. 

 

I know Dean made a choice to take on the MoC because he was so depressed and loathed himself and the choices he made, and he really didn't care about the consequences but man making him a demon...is still just almost too much.  Even just from that clip, I  am already missing that I dunno, for lack of a better word, "innocence" about Dean. I am so afraid that I will end up hating Dean because the way Jensen is describing Demon!Dean is that he is nothing but an asshole:(.  I know I shouldn't prejudge but man I'm still worried :(.

Before they thought up the angels, Sam was suppose to turn into a Demon to Save Dean.  But then they thought of the angels and threw that out even though they had Sam's eyes turn black.

 

So far they haven't made me hate Dean and I think they will actually do a better job of helping us with Demon Dean once they return Dean to Dean, since Jensen is a stronger actor.    Jensen is very protective of Dean.  In an interview he said how he called up Bob because he couldn't reach Jeremy and changed the ending.  Dean's last speech to Sam before he died was suppose to be much longer but he wanted it short and sweet.  They allowed the change.  So my point is that if he really feels something isn't right, he will fight to find a way to make it better.

 

In this case I agree that less words was more.  Sometimes I wonder if the changes Jared and Jensen make create some of the issues we discuss really heavily, but I do admire the craft of putting this show together.  It's why I'm still watching when I doubt I'll ever watch another HORROR Show.   I'm just not a fan of these shows.  I don't like lots of gore. 

And I guess I've had to much real life Horror that I just don't get scared.  I know I always say nothing really bad ever happened to me, but if I don't think and just start saying a list of all the stuff that has, I always get the mouth dropping on the floor.  I've been told I should write some books, but my writing skills suck.  So I'll just admire those that do it.

DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

Demon!Dean is described as the ultimate carefree guy. He is not out and out doing evil as a mission, he doesn`t have the goal to take over hell or even cause as much harm as possible or anything. He just apparently doesn`t give a shit. About anything, Sam, the car, the world, hunting, Cas, Crowley, himself. Nothing.

 

Well, Jensen did say at one point that he and Crowley painted quite a few towns red (literally) before Crowley gets weary of it and tries to rein DemonDean in. Just because he has no big master plan to take over the world and whatnot doesn't mean that he's not engaging in activity that's...well...evil. What they've always considered evil on this show really mostly equates to monsters trying to survive. Demons are considered worse because they don't usually want anything more than death and destruction. Yes, there was an attempt to organize at one time, but mostly demons are just wanting to create mayhem and chaos for the sheer pleasure of it. So, I think that DemonDean will be doing many things that are more than just getting into a few fights or reacting to situations poorly--it sounds like to me he's just having a big old party and doesn't give a crap how many people suffer or die in the process. I would probably classify that as evil behavior. I do agree that they will probably screw this up, but what else is new? 

 

Either way, I won't hate Dean, because this isn't Dean no more than SoullesSam was Sam.

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

MoL spoiler at TVLine

Any more Supernatural scooplets coming out of press tour or Comic-Con? –Deb

 

If you’re a fan of the Men of Letters, count on seeing them again this season — just not right away. “One of the reasons for that,” EP Jeremy Carver explains, “is that the boys are on the road actually for a good portion of the first run of episodes. It takes them a while to get back to the Men of Letters.”

 

catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I guess I got a little more worried because of the interview with Jensen wherein he describes  Demon! Dean as beyond carefree. Jensen said that by carefree he means that Dean literally does not care about anyone or anything at all. It's not that he has no cares, he cares not, that he has no fucks to give.  He is doing whatever he wants no matter how terrible it is.  Which is why I am really really worried about his sexual behavior as Demon!Dean. Jensen says Demon!Dean is an asshole and not a fun, scary asshole, just a scary asshole. And based on that one snippet, I can see it completely. I'm sure he'll be snarky and have some quips but overall it sounds like Demon!Dean is a really horrible, terrible, no good very bad demon :(.  

 

I can handle dark characters too.  DarkWesley is my favorite Wesley on Angel.  I happily loathed Walter White and Tony Soprano. But Dean is a different kettle of fish than any of those characters.


I wonder if that scene in the Lair is going to turn out to be a big ole fake out and might be Sam's dream of Dean chasing him

Edited by catrox14
Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)

 

Which is why I am really really worried about his sexual behavior as Demon!Dean. Jensen says Demon!Dean is an asshole and not a fun, scary asshole, just a scary asshole. And based on that one snippet, I can see it completely. I'm sure he'll be snarky and have some quips but overall it sounds like Demon!Dean is a really horrible, terrible, no good very bad demon :(.

 

I wouldn`t expect him to be cute and cuddly as a demon. But the way he describes it as "guy who never stops partying", I don`t think he is even remotely there with the likes of Azazel, Lilith, Abaddon or Alistair. Heck, even Caine`s backstory was "slaughter for millenia" till one day he stopped and found true love. 

 

Admittedly, I`m a bit worried about the sexual stuff because, again, those writers have TERRIBLE instincts and sensitivity when it comes to that. But it doesn`t need to be violent. Demon!Dean still looks like he does so it`s perfectly reasonable if he got laid whenever he wants to. They don`t need to show him resorting to abuse just because no woman would give him the time of the day or anything.

 

And he might deliberately turn on some version of the charme TO get laid and then be an ass afterwards. I`m envisioning something like when Angel turned evil first on Buffy. Now, aside from how he actually was evil then, just the first encounter he had with Buffy after they slept together (her first time), He made callous remarks on how she was like a pro but it was no big deal for him and all that. He was a pure, unadultered asshole in that scene. But it wasn`t EVOL per se. He didn`t try to force himself on her or anything, he was just mean. Which was supposed to be a metaphor on how guys can be once they get what they want.

 

If that is the worst demon!Dean does in that regard, big whoop for a demon. And it certainly wouldn`t make the guy irredeemable for me. 

 

 

I wonder if that scene in the Lair is going to turn out to be a big ole fake out and might be Sam's dream of Dean chasing him

I think it`s a real scene. And personally, while I loved it, if that is the worst of Demon!Dean, I`m not worried at all. It`s very tame behaviour for a demon.

 

Going by the cuts during that clip, it`s obviously bits and pieces of several scenes sliced together. Early on when they are talking, Dean appears to be bound. Which fits in what Jensen said about spending the majority of the ep in this state.

 

So my best guess would be, Sam somehow captures Dean (maybe with the help of Cas and Crowley, it is said Cas and Dean have one scene together if I understood Misha correctly), then takes him back to the bunker and tries to cure/get to him all episode yet Demon!Dean escapes and is chasing him all over the bunker. That ending where Sam has a knife to Dean`s throat and Dean is all la-di-da about it might be the final frame of the episode. As a mini-cliffhanger leading into the next one.

Edited by Aeryn13
shang yiet

shang yiet

(edited)

Doing evil has never helped anyone get over their issues. It won't help Dean. "So I slaughtered people left and right. Hey, it improved my self-esteem and I feel better about myself now.' Yeah, right.

 

I fear when the demon arc is all over, we're in for more endless emo from Dean, and I've had enough of that from Dean to last me another 10 seasons.

 

Soulless Sam was never evil, he just didn't have a soul, hence no feelings telling him what was right or wrong. He didn't rejoice over slashing people's throats.

 

I am so rooting for Sam to save Dean and I'm excited to have fully human Sam back but I don't want demon!Dean to hurt and torture him. He might not give a fuck but the fans will. I know I will.

Edited by shang yiet
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7kstar

7kstar

(edited)

One would think that Crowley not being a stupid King of Hell would find a way to keep the blade because the temptation for Dean to kill him might just be too much.

 

They did tease that Dean's bucket list is to kill Mark Shepperd and Mark has been teasing let the boys start a new spin off and let Crowley and Cass take care of Supernatural.  Mark is a hoot in the interviews.

 

Not really totally new but Jared mentions the question is how far will Human Sam go to get his brother back.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-GrF6rdDQ4

Edited by 7kstar
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mertensia

mertensia

I think DemonDean might not feel he needs to use the First Blade: he's a demon with demonstrength and no connection to anything. Killing some demons with Ruby's knife or an angel blade might be his way of having fun.

I wonder how many monsters and demons will get the Hell (so to speak) out of anywhere DemonDean is? I know if I were a demon I'd be considering visiting New Zealand for a millennia or two.

SueB

SueB

  • Author

Ah mertensia!  You've put way too many options in my head.  I need to unthink those thoughts because with so many options... whatever they choose it won't be exactly how I envision it.  *Sigh*  But you know, that is actually saying a lot.  These characters have juice left IMO.

 

In terms of motivation, just how long can you extend a 24 hr party?  Apparently Crtowley's limit is somewhere around the two month time -- based on him thinking Dean is too much to handle.  It just seems to me it'll have to be Dean's choice to go kill evil things with Sam again.  Sam cannot keep him locked up (as the clip demonstrates). They aren't going to de-power him for at least the bulk of the first half of the season (if ever... I get the impression Dean is going to be left with some permanent change).  So Dean, I think, is going to CHOOSE to hang with Sammy.  Maybe out of boredom.  Maybe there's some other motivation. 

 

Or maybe I'm completely wrong and they are going to be at odds for a while.  But I don't think so.  The impression given is they are back teamed up and on the road. 

 

As for the blade - being a demon allows Dean to handle the blade's power.  But maybe it's a little too bloodthirsty for him so he keeps it tucked away? 

catrox14

catrox14

I wonder if Dean's raison d etre of Save Sammy is part of why he wants to be with Sammy.  I mean he might be a demon now (/gross sobbing every time) but it is Dean and how can that part of his mind, or heart, or soul completely go away considering it was the prime directive in his life.  It might be buried under far down now but I don't think it's completely gone.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)

 

I wonder if Dean's raison d etre of Save Sammy is part of why he wants to be with Sammy.

 

Jensen said Demon!Dean doesn`t care about anything or anyone. Even when he hears Sam is in trouble, he goes "I don`t give a shit". Personally, I would scream and rage if even becoming a totally uncaring demon, Dean was still all "Sam, Sam, Sam". His entire problem has been revolving around Sam too much. So if it takes being a demon to stop that wholly - and then having a more moderate approach afterwards - then it`s finally character progression I`ve waited for since forever.

 

I don`t want that to be the "prime directive" in his life. I never did and have increasingly hated it for years now. I`ve never liked the character solely or even mostly for that and in the last couple of years have only liked him inspite of it.

 

 

Doing evil has never helped anyone get over their issues. It won't help Dean. "So I slaughtered people left and right. Hey, it improved my self-esteem and I feel better about myself now.' Yeah, right.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of "okay, that`s it, my previous approach led me too far to one extreme so maybe it`s finally time to start trying something else". That would be good. Not kissing Sam`s ass left and right of course for I never felt they weren`t by and large equal partners so too much give on Dean`s end would just make him the submissive grunt. But never doing crap like inviting an angel in for possession when Sam is on his death-bed.

 

Stopping the trials at least had the benefit of not overpopulating the veil even more with all the evil souls. However, he didn`t know that back then and his reasoning was "Sam. Death. Can`t. Be." That needs to stop. He is fine with his death. He can accept the deaths of close friends even if he is not fine with it. He needs to get there with Sam as well.  

 

 

Soulless Sam was never evil, he just didn't have a soul, hence no feelings telling him what was right or wrong.

 

I think he knew right from wrong. He wasn`t braindead nor had he arrived with a spaceship five minutes previously. "Right" and "wrong" after all are learned, cultural concepts. Rules of society. Technically, he knew those. He just didn`t see any reason to follow them if they didn`t align with what he wanted to achieve at any given moment. 

 

But I`m happy that finally it is human Sam doing whatever he might be doing. No supernatural excuse and white paint this time. 

Edited by Aeryn13
catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I know what Jensen said, as I mentioned it before.  My thoughts don't really change that aspect of demon!Dean though.

 

Did demon!Dean miss Sam's head because Sam is that fast or because he's playing games with Sam or because demon!Dean literally is unable to kill his brother?  I'm thinking that even as a demon it's still Dean's mind and brain and I assume memories of Sam. He's been a father and brother to Sam longer than he's been a demon (unless the demonization process added hundreds of years to Dean's life) and even in his demon state, he might not really be able to kill Sam, even if he wants too.

Edited by catrox14
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Interesting interview.

 

I think how "evil" Demon!Dean is gonna be will depend on what he wants and how easy or not he can get it at any given time. If he doesn`t care about anytihing, he doesn`t care about doing neither good nor evil. So for example if he wants lots of drinks and gets lots of drinks, that would be the end of it. 

 

Just that in society you can`t always feed the Id. That`s when the violence is gonna come in .Jensen already said Demon!Dean will get in one fight after the other.

7kstar

7kstar

I know what Jensen said, as I mentioned it before.  My thoughts don't really change that aspect of demon!Dean though.

 

Did demon!Dean miss Sam's head because Sam is that fast or because he's playing games with Sam or because demon!Dean literally is unable to kill his brother?  I'm thinking that even as a demon it's still Dean's mind and brain and I assume memories of Sam. He's been a father and brother to Sam longer than he's been a demon (unless the demonization process added hundreds of years to Dean's life) and even in his demon state, he might not really be able to kill Sam, even if he wants too.

Till we see the ep, there still is a bit of is Dean toying with Sam to explore how far will Sam go and will Sam find a moment when he can reach Dean.  Remember Dean reached both Bobby and John when they were possessed so it is still possible.  Plus this shows track record is they don't keep the boys separated for long. 

 

My question does Sam know Dean is a demon at this point since this is all clips from Ep 3.  How did Collette reach Cain?  Sam's quest is to find his brother and save him. 

 

I just hope if they have Demon Dean hunting with Sam they do a better job of giving a reason why he is willing to do this.  That was my entire problem with Soulless Sam, I never saw a real reason for him to go hunting with his weaker brother.  This has the potential for major Character growth for Sam, to realize how difficult at times it was for Dean trying to keep Sam human and to protect him.  Sam's usually not allowed to see this part.  So I hope the writers will create character growth for both boys. 

 

I'm sure there will be moments when I will feel like throwing something at the TV next season but hopefully it will be a nice mix of good moments too.  With the big introduction of a witch this season, I wonder if Sam has found that Spell or something that he promised Dean he would find.  I doubt they will have Sam dead in the veil, at least I hope not.

 

So I'm in agreement with Jensen that it will be scarey and sad, because I'm excited and scared all at the same time.

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shang yiet

shang yiet

(edited)

Becoming a demon is never a good path to mental health. Too bad innocent people may have to pay for Dean's 'approach'..That's all on him. But it's Dean and I'm sure he will angst over it when the demon arc is over. Inevitable.

 

I never saw any of the white paint for Sam, Always thought the show treated Dean far more sympathetically.

 

I am also happy with fully human Sam, I never liked the show always treating him as a problem to be solved. Now he's not the problem, he can be the solution.

Edited by shang yiet
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mertensia

mertensia

It's really not surprising that DemonDean would be uncontrollable- Dean is feeling his first real freedom to do and act any way he wants for the first time since he was four. He's being encouraged by Crowley at first, it sounds. Even a suddenly completely free and unfettered non-demonic Dean would probably be uncontrollable at least for a bit.

It occurs to me it's a good thing for John that John made it out of Hell or DemonDean would probably invade Hell to rip him to shreds.

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SueB

SueB

  • Author
(edited)

It occurs to me it's a good thing for John that John made it out of Hell or DemonDean would probably invade Hell to rip him to shreds.

Too true. And then if he gets non- demonic, yikes... Patricide on Daddy soul. That'll give you a head trip.

And Jensen's ending? Yikes x10000. But if Dean doesn't get rid of the MoC, has an untwisted soul, but is not fully human .... Does that make him doomed to walk the earth alone? That would be sad.

Edited by SueB
AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

I think Dean would summoning Death to kill him rather than walk alone through eternity.

 

Very true. He would even know how. Death told Dean that if Dean tried to bind him again, he would kill him before he even started, and if Death can kill God, he could also kill even an "immortal" Dean, so unless Death goes AWOL, Dean would have a way out of having to walk the earth alone. Now where Dean would go after he died is the question... he might want to bargain to be zapped out of existence rather than end up back in hell - if heaven is now out of the cards for him - unless Dean wanted to rule the place.**

 

** I generally thought that would be more of a Sam thing myself if Sam ever went that way... I once read an amusing fic where Sam takes over hell, Castiel takes over heaven, and Dean continues hunting on earth, but the three of them have regular lunch dates where they discuss the various annoyances of their "jobs."

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7kstar

7kstar

Both Jared and Jensen have said all along that the brothers should go out fighting together.  The film they often reference is Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.  I often wondered if the real ending Kripke planned which would have made sense with season four was for both Sam and Dean to wind up in the cage together. 

 

To me it would have made more sense that the mess that happened at the end of Season 5 but I think if they had used that ending then how do you get both of them out of the cage?  So a switch was created and here comes Adam. 

 

Does this show have to have a sad ending, I don't think so, but the writing needs to be much stronger than what they have done to make a happy ending possible.  They could leave it open to do a movie and like the shows that did that, never do that movie but close the chapter so we have a satisfying moment.  If they write it where I'm satisfied then I will be happy with it. 

 

Although some fans were with Season 5, for me it was a big fail.

 

Now Demon Dean and Death might be fun.  I really agree we are seeing Dean being that rebellious college student.  Some of the worst cases where the ones where the kid's freedom to make decisions had been too controlled by the parents.  I can see Dean being like this.

 

He's always followed what was the right thing to do, whatever that thing was and to have that stripped away, To have the FREEDOM to just not worry about anything or to have the weight of why do I have to always be the one to sacrifice especially since the last time it was thrown in his face that all he's done is more harm, why not embrace his selfish desires.

 

So I can see this be like going to Vegas to party like the world is ending and for once he isn't on the road to save it.  How they get him off that pathway will be the point that could be very interesting.

 

I agree that for once to have Sam in the role of being the savior to finding a solution is needed.  Sam needs to be able to see how much he has learned over the years and how much he has grown from that young man that left his family to go to college.  Then and  only then can he move forward and have a healthy life...of course they won't allow either brothers to do that because this is Supernatural after all.  It would end the show if they had both brothers going off in different directions and being in a healthy place to allow that.

SueB

SueB

  • Author

If Kripke thought a fitting ending was to have Sam in the pit for eternity with Luci and Dean living a PTSD apple-pie life that is not a good ending for me.  Dying and NOT being tortured for eternity is almost a happy ending for these two. That could be non-existence or heaven. Maybe Purgatory for Dean -- cause he kinda likes that killing thing and he found Heaven boring.  Maybe if they make Heaven where you can be with your family for real**.  But Sam never deserved the pit for eternity and neither does Dean.  So... I'll be unhappy if that is part of the resolution some day.

 

**Which brings a conundrum.  What if John and Mary's heaven was to be together and Dean wants that too but Sam did not.  How would it be "heaven" for Sam if he was around John and didn't want to be?  Now...at this stage in his life, I think Sam would be okay with it.  But my point is that the memorex version of heaven may be the best they can manage in the Supernatural 'verse. 

Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

(edited)

Recurring characters spoilers

 

Not only will Sheriff Mills (played by Kim Rhodes) make another appearance, but “we’ll see one character that we introduced last year in ‘The Purge,’ Sheriff Donna Hanscum [played by Brianna Buckmaster], who I think is a lot of fun [and a] wonderful actor,” executive producer Jeremy Carver tells TVLine.

 

 

 

Linked in the article:

 

Jared spills on the hunt for Demon Dean

 

Amongst other things:

What can you tell me about the 200th episode that's coming up this season? That's a huge milestone to hit!

 

Yeah, it's awesome. The episode will be very meta. It's a pure shout-out and thank you to the fans. I haven't had the chance to read it yet but I've heard it's almost similar to our "The Real Ghostbusters" episode. We're not at a convention but we're at a place where they're doing a play based on the Chuck Shurley books. So not only are these books based on our lives, now people are doing a play based on these books, and someone is haunting it, so we go and try to investigate what's going on at this play, based on the books about our lives. It's certainly a direct shout-out to the fans and a thank you for their years of commitment to us. They are the reason we're here. I can't wait to read it!

 

 

I feel like my head is about to explode.  

Edited by Demented Daisy
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ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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