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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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NoWillToResist

NoWillToResist

(edited)

Also, I find it interesting that in the two occasions we've seen Dean fan-boy over someone it was (male)Dr. Sexy and (male)Gunner Lawless.   I'm not sayin...I'm just sayin'.....

 

Why catrox, what could you possibly not be saying? ;)

 

(I blame tumblr for everything)

Edited by NoWillToResist
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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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catrox14

catrox14

 

You forgot the porn star who decided to become celibate.

 

I didn't forget her. I didn't include her because I didn't think he fanboy'd over her at all. I think once he realized who she was he was just like "Yeah, this is awesome" but he wasn't awkward at all like he is here or with Dr. Sexy.  He did fanboy a bit over Tara in Hollywood Babylon.  

 

I was also being facetious.  Ah well, my Dean jokes never land here. 

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

(edited)

No, he fanboy'd over Suzy, IMO.  I'd offer a screen cap, but the usual site is down.  Instead:

 

 

 

[DEAN quickly hangs up as he hears SUZY coming back. He tries to hide the DVDs behind his back as he swings around to face her.]

 

DEAN Hey. Or should I say... "Hola"?

 

SUZY [looking confused] Uh, why?

 

DEAN No reason. No reason.

 

SUZY A-are you okay?

 

DEAN Me? Ah -- I'm great. Why?

 

SUZY Uh, you seem... I-I don't know, nervous.

 

DEAN [Laughing nervously] Nervous? No. I'm not nervous... Carmelita.

 

SUZY [face falls in resignation] So, you've seen my...work. Listen, I don't blame you if you want to be assigned a new counselor. I-I get it.

 

DEAN No. No, no. Are you -- are you kidding me? I mean, you're -- you're a freaking legend.

 

SUZY [in a panic] No! I-I am -- I'm not that girl anymore. I moved here. I changed my name. That girl was -- was horrible.

 

DEAN [interrupting her] Listen, uh, Suzy, I've seen a lot of awful things, stuff of nightmares, okay? But you -- you're the good dreams.

 

He was nervous around her -- a lot like the clip from tonight.

Edited by Demented Daisy
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catrox14

catrox14

I know he fanboy'd over Tara. I said so in my reply. I did forget about Tara.

 

Yeah, I know the scene between Suzy and Dean. I stand by my interpretation that he was not a nervous fanboy towards her. I thought his awkwardness was because he had inadvertently discovered her secret when he didn't mean to. He was trying to hide that he knew who she was at first. Once he revealed to her he knew he didn't act nervous at all. He told her she was the good dreams. I guess to me that's not fanboying.  Different strokes for different folks as always.

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

(edited)

Not about SPN, but I wonder.

 

http://tvline.com/2016/02/24/bailey-chase-jessica-szohr-cast-cw-pilot/

 

Longmire deputy Bailey Chase and former Gossip gal Jessica Szohr mark the first castings for The CW’s paranomal-themed drama pilot from Kevin Williamson (The Following).

 

Penned by Williamson, the project follows a young woman who seeks help from a parapsychologist when she begins to experience paranormal phenomena.

 

Per our sister site Deadline, Chase will play the Clark Patterson, the down-on-his-luck parapsychologist in question, who now slums it at ghost conventions. Szohr will play Jasmine Lacroix, a voodoo priestess’ descendant who runs a successful tourist shop in Baton Rouge.

 

 

 

My first thought was, "So, Supernatural, but the leads have sex."

Edited by Demented Daisy
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Since he loved episodes 9 and 10 previously this Season and those were Samnatural episodes and I hated them, that makes me incredibly weary of the episode.

 

It`s the one where Chuck, presumably God, is coming in. If he worships at the feet of Sam like Death, then barf.

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catrox14

catrox14

I dunno. God's sister is the Darkness. The Big Bad, wants to control and sucks out souls from people without their actual consent and zaps Dean to wherever she wants. I'm not sure that qualifies as love. Obsession, yes. Love...I don't think so.

 

Crowley is the King of Hell and also wanted to control Dean...not really love IMO. Crowley likes him though but that raises the question of 'can a demon truly love someone? Obsessed with Dean? Yes. Love....eh....not so sure.

 

 

I will give you Castiel though. He loves Dean but alas he's probably gonna die. :(

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

Since he loved episodes 9 and 10 previously this Season and those were Samnatural episodes and I hated them, that makes me incredibly weary of the episode.

 

It`s the one where Chuck, presumably God, is coming in. If he worships at the feet of Sam like Death, then barf.

 

According to the Gold Panel Dean fans get an exciting scene of Dean ironing Sam's shirt.  Guess chauffeur and cook weren't enough.  They need to add literal maid. 

 

 

Obsession, yes. Love...I don't think so.

Im not sure I'd label Amara and obession for Dean since unless he's two feet in front of her she seems to forget he exists.  The so-called bond doesn't even exist unless their two feet from each other.  I don't think this plot has advanced anywhere since the premier.

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catrox14

catrox14

According to the Gold Panel Dean fans get an exciting scene of Dean ironing Sam's shirt.  Guess chauffeur and cook weren't enough.  They need to add literal maid. 

 

Im not sure I'd label Amara and obession for Dean since unless he's two feet in front of her she seems to forget he exists.  The so-called bond doesn't even exist unless their two feet from each other.  I don't think this plot has advanced anywhere since the premier.

 

 

I think for Dean that's true, but Amara showed up out of nowhere when she zapped him away from Sam in 11.09. So she must have been thinking about him in some way. 

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

I always felt that was more of a plot point to give Sam and excuse to go into Lucifer's cage by himself.  The very next episode we get a never heard of before smiting sickness that kept Dean out of his own plot.  Amara didn't seem to miss Dean. 

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catrox14

catrox14

I always felt that was more of a plot point to give Sam and excuse to go into Lucifer's cage by himself.  The very next episode we get a never heard of before smiting sickness that kept Dean out of his own plot.  Amara didn't seem to miss Dean. 

 

 

She is the one who used the word "fascinated' so I'll just use that instead obsession.

 

I don't think that fascination has changed but I also don't think it is the driving force in her mission on Earth. I think Dean is nothing but a tool for her; a means to an end.  I don't think their bond is because it's 'Dean Winchester' or because she picked him out because he's so special to her.  IMO whoever had the Mark most recently or who she saw when she was released , she would have been fascinated by that person. 

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

I'd say the mark, since Sam was also there when she was released and she left him in the car. Dean was the only one who she took to talk with and, apparently, bent time somehow and/or gave him a vision so that he could see her in her future form to speak with him.

 

The boys iron shirts?! Whoa. I don't iron shirts. Except for when hubs has to have a meeting with higher-ups and forgot to get dry-cleaning done.

 

I know. That makes no sense. What would be happening in such a late episode that they would even need an ironed shirt?

 

If they filmed something like that, I'm skeptical that it would end up in the episode.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)

 

Since God's sister, the King of Hell Crowley and Castiel are all half in love with Dean already, Sam should get his share of worshippers.

 

Big mythological figures like Death and especially God should be kept neutral IMO. If you write a story where God himself comes in and endorses your pet character, I consider it an epic writing fail. Death basically parted Sam`s buttcheeks and went to work. God should have a bit more dignity than that.

Edited by Aeryn13
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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

Between them being good employees that toe the party line and that just because they like it doesn't mean I will--plus, the script itself isn't the finished product and may not turn out they way they envision--I try not to put too much stock in whether Jared or Jensen says they like the script. Jensen also said he liked the S10 season finale and felt it was Carver's best work. I on the other hand...not so much. So, I usually wait to see it before I make up my mind. It's not always easy with this show lately, but I'm trying so very hard to go in with no expectations.

 

That being said, count me as very happy to hear Chuck is coming back... . ;)

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

 

Jensen said he hadn't read the script yet in one of the panels.

 

Yup, he did. His reaction could have given an indication. Like back before the Season 5 Finale aired, Jared was raving about it at a Con and Jensen`s reaction was, shall we say, very subdued, Back then I saw their reactions in person and it really hasn`t steered me wrong.

 

Maybe he would have had something good to say about it but so far when asked about Season 11, Jensen seems to have only really liked the Impala episode. I haven`t heard him truly enthuse about any other. 

 

Just out of curiosity I checked the pattern of the last few Seasons and usually mytharc  episodes have the same numbers, obviously the Opener, the mid-Season Finale and Opener, ep 14 and so on. And usually even writers get the same ep number, year after year. Nancy Won seems to have gotten Adam Glass` slot. 

 

If it holds, ep 20 wouldn`t be a mytharc ep and it would be penned by Thompson (I`m excluding Bloodlines which was Dabb but that being a Backdoor Pilot is running out of order anyway). My point being, IF episode 20 is not mytharc yet we do know Chuck returns and IF Thompson writes it, I wonder if it is going meta again. We are all more or less expecting Chuck as God now to come in and deal with the Amara situation in some way.

 

If they don`t want to go there, at least not full-scale, they could do some "is he/is he not" meta kerfluffle that might set up mytharc stuff but isn`t really the "God is in da house" ep everyone is expecting. Carver et al are incredibly non-committal when being asked about him. They might think they found a way to address that audience question without really adressing it. Just a wonky theory of mine now.  

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Diane

Diane

Jim Michaels Verified account
‏@TheJimMichaels

Jim Michaels Retweeted debbab

Mr Andrew Dabb

Jim Michaels added,
debbab @debbab3
@TheJimMichaels #Supernatural Do U know who has been assigned to write this year's finale?

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

I'm in no way expecting it to be clear that Chuck is God. The show has always been cagey about that and I will expect them to continue to be cagey about it till the show ends.

 

I don't actually expect "God" to fix or solve anything. Never did. He might give them a clue, but I expect it will be up to Sam and Dean to fix the Amara situation. I don't even think Lucifer will be helpful in the end.

 

Anyways, I always assumed it would be some sort of wishy-washy meta episode.

 

Jim Michaels Verified account
‏@TheJimMichaels

Jim Michaels Retweeted debbab

Mr Andrew Dabb

Jim Michaels added,
debbab @debbab3
@TheJimMichaels #Supernatural Do U know who has been assigned to write this year's finale?

 

Doesn't Carver always write the premiers and finales?

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Diane

Diane

I'm in no way expecting it to be clear that Chuck is God. The show has always been cagey about that and I will expect them to continue to be cagey about it till the show ends.

 

I don't actually expect "God" to fix or solve anything. Never did. He might give them a clue, but I expect it will be up to Sam and Dean to fix the Amara situation. I don't even think Lucifer will be helpful in the end.

 

Anyways, I always assumed it would be some sort of wishy-washy meta episode.

 

 

Doesn't Carver always write the premiers and finales?

That's for a better expert than me.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Usually, yes. I reckon this signals Carver is out the door - he is doing a new Pilot project anyway. And Dabb was speculated to be the one to take over showrunning duties anyway so that is not a big surprise. That is, I expected Carver to finish out his term but if he is not, Dabb might have taken over immediately with Carver only there in name still.

 

Wasn`t a fan of Carver and I do not believe Dabb is one iota better. His last episode before the co-written Wrestler one was the mid-Season Opener, a bona-fide Dean-who-episode that didn`t bother to mention going back to hell or even had Billie address that Dean killed Death. Yeah, sure, more of that.

 

Spnwiki seems to think ep 20 is indeed Thompson. That does make wacky meta episode more likely.

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

 

I'm in no way expecting it to be clear that Chuck is God.

Someone asked Jared a question in the breakfast panel about how Sam would feel if he ever met God.  His answer was something along the lines of keep watching.

 

I'm expecting episode 20 to be Just My Imagination ramped up, with God in the place of Sully, with the Sam pimping completely over the top and out of control.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Well, if I understand the reference correctly, Jared implies Jensen likes the script for 20 as well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLQVHXBjbQ6pM4q1803DVJxMEO9XxNaTfi&v=6CnBI9gb60Q

 

I didn't get any sense from Jensen one way or the other about the script from that. .  Jared was fawning over it...and I'm sorry but most of the time when Jared fawns over a script (non Fan Fiction and non Baby) episodes...it's been about Sam's arcs or Sam being super emotional. I'm not saying that in a bitter way just what I've noticed is a pattern.

 

The most vocal Jensen has been about something he disliked was when they killed off Charlie. He was pissed and he let it be known. He straight up said it was a mistake to do it. Said it in front of Singer at the Rome con. IMO I think Jensen maybe is taking the tack of "If I can't say anything nice, I won't say anything at all'.  Or he doesn't want to spoil anything.

 

But yeah, I sure didn't get the sense from that clip that Jensen was either approving or disapproving of the script.  They spent most of the time joking about Misha.

 

One thing that I did ping on was Jared saying "I'll show you MY Mark of Cain.....on..my.. phone".  That's two references dropped to the Mark of Cain with Jared in two cons.    Yes it's a joke but it's weird. I mean in the entire two years of the MoC storyline Jared never said anything about having a Mark of Cain even jokingly. 

 

I'm still leaning to Sam taking on the Mark because he'll be convinced it's the only way to kill The Darkness with the First Blade and because Dean can't because you know...the bond and all, which doesn't make much sense Sam equally should be unable to  kill her for those same reasons.  Unless Sam has to kill Dean to kill Amara. Maybe since  Dean had the Mark and it still affects him, he might only be able to be killed by the First Blade still.

Edited by catrox14
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SueB

SueB

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You all right, Jensen likely HASN'T read the script now that I think about it.  He usually reads "just in time".

 

 

One thing that I did ping on was Jared saying "I'll show you the Mark of Cain.....on..my.. phone".  That's two references dropped to the Mark of Cain with Jared in two cons.

 

I figured it was some naughty inside joke.  But who knows.

I'm thrilled Robbie is writing the Chuck episode. I LOVE his episodes.  And I MUCH prefer Dabb for Mytharc over Carver.  I think Carver does some of the emotional beats better in many of his scripts but Dabb is into the backstory.   I also agree Dabb is likely functioning as show-runner with Carver looking over his shoulder these days.  And if Carver's pilot doesn't get picked up?  Well that potentially screws Dabb over. 

 

I wonder if part of the reason we haven't heard about S12 is network stalled negotiations with Tribune combined with pilot season decision making.  Last year they essentially picked a two or three new pilots and stayed "pat" with the rest of the schedule.  Maybe they want to keep the options and NIGHTS open.  I don't see them dropping SPN. Like, not at all.  This show was there for them from the start and is number 3 or 4 on their list.  They'll drop the Originals and Vampire Diaries first, I suspect.  But if Tribune drops them (and while it looked good in January, it looks less so today), I think they are going to be putting pilots on hold and hanging on for dear life.

 

 

 

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

I'm in no way expecting it to be clear that Chuck is God. The show has always been cagey about that and I will expect them to continue to be cagey about it till the show ends.

 

I don't actually expect "God" to fix or solve anything. Never did. He might give them a clue, but I expect it will be up to Sam and Dean to fix the Amara situation. I don't even think Lucifer will be helpful in the end.

 

Anyways, I always assumed it would be some sort of wishy-washy meta episode.

 

 

Spnwiki seems to think ep 20 is indeed Thompson. That does make wacky meta episode more likely.

 

 

If it turns out that God did, indeed, possess or charm the Impala years ago to protect Sam and Dean, I am going to declare myself winner of the internet for a full 24 hours.  Fair warning.  ;-)

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SueB

SueB

  • Author

 

If it turns out that God did, indeed, possess or charm the Impala years ago to protect Sam and Dean, I am going to declare myself winner of the internet for a full 24 hours.  Fair warning.  ;-)

It would be WELL EARNED.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

I could go for charmed, possessed would be a bit much to me. 

 

They could harken back to the Baby episode and the "strange conincidences bla bla". 

 

However, because the idea is funny, clever and charming, you can likely rest easy in the knowledge that none of the writers would ever come up with it. If they did, I would only believe it if they read it online but it`s too late for episode 20. 

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

If it turns out that God did, indeed, possess or charm the Impala years ago to protect Sam and Dean, I am going to declare myself winner of the internet for a full 24 hours.  Fair warning.  ;-)

 

Why for only 24 hours? I say you should have the title for at least a week! ;)

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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

Listened to the J2 morning panel.  Jensen ironing is for the FBI suits, it MIGHT be in the teaser of EP20. Jared was pretty loosened up in the morning due to late night partying with Jensen.

Edited by SueB
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NoWillToResist

NoWillToResist

Big mythological figures like Death and especially God should be kept neutral IMO. If you write a story where God himself comes in and endorses your pet character, I consider it an epic writing fail. Death basically parted Sam`s buttcheeks and went to work. God should have a bit more dignity than that.

 

I hurt myself from how much I laughed at this. Oh, the evocative imagery!! :D

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Update from Diane on the media thread

Robbie Thompson is writing 11.20..

 

 

I think this is supposed to be Rob Benedict's return....

 

So....hell I don't even know what to think at this point. I have fully loved about 5 of Robbie's episodes, sorely and outright hated 4 of them and the others were more meh.

 

Since Charlie is dead(supposedly) it shouldn't be a Charlie returns episode (unless it is and it goes back to the Wizard of Oz stuff I mentioned WAY BACK in the beginning re the dark and light sides etc) 

 

He has written several Cas centric episodes: 

 

7.06 Slash Fiction - Leviathans
7.12 Time After Time- Dean and Sam across time working together
7.20 The Girl with the Dungeons and Dragons Tattoo - Charlie
8.04 Bitten -werewolves basically no sam and dean

8.11 LARP and The Real Girl - Charlie and Dean

8.17 Goodbye Stranger - Cas manipulate by Naomi into betraying Dean, beats Dean, heals Dean and leaves with the tablet

8.20 Pac-Man Fever - Charlie's past with her mom

9.04 Slumber Party - Charlie/Dean/Sam/Dorothy and Oz story

9.11 First Born -  Dean/Cain and Cas/Sam

9.17 Meta Fiction - Metatron/Cas/Gadreel

10.5 Fan Fiction - Sam and Dean

10.11 There's No Place Like Home -Charlie centric coming back from Oz but broken. Fights with Dean. Leaves to find Book of the Damned

10.17 Book of the Damned - Charlie returns with the Stynes hunting her. Dean is weirded out about the book

10.20 Angel Heart - Cas/Claire/Claire's mom introduction of the Angel Sword

11.04 Baby -  Dean and Sam - werepires

11.11 Into The Mystic - Sam, Dean or Mildred and Eileen or all of them or just to reveal Dean is vulnerable.

11.16 Safe House - Seems to be about Sam being injured and Amara coming back. but probably not based on preview.

 

So basically.......

giphy.gif

Edited by catrox14
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)

He has written mytharc but I think his interest lies more in two things: a) Charlie and b) wacky, offbeat episode, possibly meta-comedies.

 

Charlie is IMO out so that makes a meta episode more likely. What speaks for this is IMO also the episode number, it has often been a Cas or standalone episode in recent years with the mytharc only picking up again for 21 through 23. They could of course change it up and make it the final four episodes being arc but I doubt it.

 

If God comes in and deals in any way with the Amara situation, even if it is giving info and that was the main plot, it would be a myth episode. If it was a more comedic standalone and that was just a backdrop, it would be considered standalone.

 

Cons for me right now is that they haven`t pimped this and they usually do this for their meta episodes way in advance. However, there is still time for that. We are on break and 20 won`t air until halfway into April.

 

Also Carver`s last interview for "the rest of the Season" seemed to frankly only cover stuff up to ep 14 if  think about it. Maybe he was halfway out the door already by then. He barely was interested in the show in the past so him not bothering anymore would fit.

 

Maybe Dabb will give an interview that deals more with "and this is what we can tease about the final stretch". Maybe Thompson himself will pimp it on twitter. They could also be sending out screeners for 20.

 

At this point, I`d put down the chances for a more wacky meta episode where they are cagey with "Chuck" at 60 to 40. Of course, recent meta episodes have all featured Sam fans and Sam pimping. So Chuck/God could still do it in the guise of meta and Jared would still like it.

 

Dean being a literal maid and ironig Sam`s shirt could also be considered meta to cement his role as sidekick and servant.

 

Personally, until I hear something good about this episode from a source that shares me taste, it might be one to skip for me.   

 

Another writerly note: usually the nepotism duo would be up in rotation for ep 16. But they aren`t doing it. Maybe since Singer left that does mark their exit too. Maybe nepotism is no more?  

Edited by Aeryn13
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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)

Ok, for those that know much more than me and who dissect these eps so well, what do you think this will mean for episode 20?

 

You mean, what does it mean that Thompson is the writer?

 

I'd bet it means some sort of meta/whacky episode. Since Edlund's departure, Thompson has been their go to for this sort of thing.

 

I highly doubt the show will come right out and definitively say whether Chuck is God--it's a hot debate in fandom and the show is so skiddish about alienating any faction of the fandom--so I can't imagine anyway they can do this unless it's an alternate reality, alternate timeline, dream or something like that. I'd bet it'll be more like Meta Fiction where it was left up to the viewer to decide whether Gabriel was not actually dead.

 

Since it's episode 20 and they'd only have three episodes left, I do expect Chuck to give Sam and Dean some missing piece of the puzzle that will put them on the path to solving the Amara problem, though.

 

On a personal level, I'm cautiously optimistic about it right now. It seems like he's a fan-favorite writer, but Thompson is pretty hit or miss for me. I think he tends to get caught up trying to be cute and/or clever and the actual story gets thrown to the wayside. If it was up to me, I'd prefer to have Berens writing this one because he seems to be much more reverent of what has come before, tends to have a better throughline in his episodes and I prefer the grounded nature of his writing to the random whacky hijinks. Ironically, I never felt like Edlunds hijinks were ever too whacky or at all random. God I miss Edlund!

 

However, I am excited for the return of Chuck and I do think Thompson has it in him to bring this home...we'll just have to wait and see, I guess.

 

ETA: if you were asking what it means that Singer is directing it, though, I'd say the episode will look pretty standard. He does bring 'em in on time and under budget, though.

Edited by DittyDotDot
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auntvi

auntvi

(edited)

Another writerly note: usually the nepotism duo would be up in rotation for ep 16. But they aren`t doing it. Maybe since Singer left that does mark their exit too. Maybe nepotism is no more? 

 

Unfortunately, the Superwiki shows the duo wrote episode 17. 

 

11.17  "Unaired episode"

Airdate: 23rd March

Writers: Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross-Leming

Director: Phil Sgriccia

This episode filmed after episode 18.

 

 

I'm confused: that airdate has to be wrong. I think it's March 30.

Edited by auntvi
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