Spoilers With Speculation

[DittyDotDot]

Sorry, it wasn't Cass that said Jesus was just a man but Eve in And Then There Were None. But I've gotten the impression, in the few times Jesus has been mentioned, he was not divine. Which makes sense to me during the Kripke years because Kripke was Jewish, so the story tended to reflect a more Jewish sensibility when it came to religion, IMO.

 

Anyway, maybe it's just an assumption on my part, but I thought Jesus being the actual son of God was another one of those things the Bible got more wrong than right in which Cass spoke about back in I Believe the Children Are Our Future (which is where I thought Cass said Jesus was just a man, but was obviously wrong.)

 

I didn't mean they should make Jesus an actual functional character to save Dean, but was saying the idea of Jesus not being what the Bible depicts could make for some interesting story. Maybe they go through a whole ritual with the Spear of Destiny, only to find out it doesn't hold any power in the end because Jesus was just a man. Hey, Jesus could be the first cult leader or something? I don't expect the show to actually do this because they'd be too worried about offending some viewers religious beliefs, but I just was musing it could make for interesting story if they had the guts to actually do it. I'm not sure I would have the guts if I was in their shoes, though.

 

Anyway, I had to go look up the quote and here's a link to the Jesus page on SupernaturalWiki.com for you all to scour and decide for yourselves: http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.php?title=Jesus

Edited March 28, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[7kstar]

I couldn't watch this show IF I was easily offended.  I think they will stay away from any mention of Christ.  They can say Jesus and just a few lines but if they get heavy with it, I could see some starting to attack the show.

 

I don't see anything they say as truth which is how I can tolerate their beliefs about God and such.  Really for the most part they avoid it but they do scatter some faithful characters in the storyline here and there.

 

I think the better way would be to use John and Mary.  We don't know where they are and Ash did tell us they weren't in heaven.  So there is a loop hole of sorts that they could use because we don't know where they are.

 

I would say the show is smart to avoid using Christ because that would open too many can's of worms IMO.

[SueB]

I hope I didn't offend.

Not remotely!

 

If they hadn't had put something in the DVD special about it I would have never mentioned it.  But I also don't believe they'd go there.  Too many would be upset, it would be too big of a commitment to go one way or the other.  I think they got away with God in the Supernatural universe because the Angels are dicks, God is an absentee father, and Jesus as an unspecified hippie.   

 

But back to my whole point -- I don't think witchcraft or anything man-made is going to get rid of the Mark. Control it, perhaps, but not get rid of it.  I think even Not!Gretal's spell might have eventually caught up with Dean when his body aged back to 37.  Although that was mighty fuzzy.

[Demented Daisy]

God saved Sam when his eyes flipped black.  Why shouldn't He save Dean?  It would fulfill the symmetry requirement this show has become so fond of.

[oliverwendell]

 

God saved Sam when his eyes flipped black.  Why shouldn't He save Dean?  It would fulfill the symmetry requirement this show has become so fond of.

 

That would be the quintessential Deus ex Machina.  But they've also had God step in and save Castiel a few times.  Maybe that's what Dean's confession -- the part about not knowing if God believes in humans anymore -- is laying the groundwork for.  The appearance of Chuck himself, to save Dean.

 

I doubt it, though.  I think it's going to be witchcraft.  And that will annoy me.  I'd honestly rather it be God waving a magic wand than that.

[catrox14]

I don't mind God not saving Dean because Dean has never really believed IN God. He believes there is a God, but I think back to Are You There God, It's Me, Dean Winchester, when he asked why would God give a crap about him. I still think he doesn't believe God gives a crap about him so he wouldn't believe God would save him.  I also don't think believes he's worthy of God saving him because he was a demon. 

 

My hope is that somehow Dean saves himself. 

[Demented Daisy]

No one has saved themselves on this show.  Why should Dean get to be any different?

 

If Dean were able to save himself, it would contradict everything Supernatural has been about.  And it wouldn't teach Dean anything.  It would just prove what he's long suspected -- that he can only depend on himself.  He can't give up control to anyone because they can't save him.  I think that would be a terrible lesson.

 

Meanwhile, I think Dean wants to believe in God.  But I think he doesn't want God to know he exists.  Like AYTG, IMDW, in The French Mistake he said that, in their universe, he and Sam were completely anonymous.  And they liked it that way.  He doesn't want God to notice him because it would force Dean to accept some things that he doesn't want to think about.

 

IMO, of course.

[catrox14]

IMO Dean said in Girlz, Girlz, Girlz that the people that loved him brought him back from that ledge.  He knows he's loved by Sam and Cas.  He has to love himself now, which is what I mean by save himself.  Dean has to believe that he is more than Daddy's Blunt Little instrument.   IMO if anyone other than maybe John and Mary saves him, then he hasn't grown to love himself.  IMO Sam does not suffer that same self-loathing so something inside Sam was healed at some point and he values himself as more than as blunt instrument or that he's only worthwhile when he is saving people and hunting things.  That's just my opinion .

[Aeryn13]

 

And it wouldn't teach Dean anything.  It would just prove what he's long suspected -- that he can only depend on himself.  He can't give up control to anyone because they can't save him.  I think that would be a terrible lesson.

 

On the contrary, I think it would give him some self-worth, to realize that yes, he IS indeed strong and a good man and capable of the big things. Not the pathetic loser who can`t handle stuff and needs to be saved by the "real heroes" and/or God because he can`t hack it. That is the place of no belief in himself he already is at. I hardly want to see this cemented.

 

The more we are nearing the Finale, the more I become convinced that in the end, the MOC/Demon/MOC arc will be ultimately pointless. Sam got Suck Song, that gave his arc a big point. Dean will get what? Certainly no big hero moment. It will probably just end with a big Sam-save and then flow into another dark arc and Dean is right back to being Sam`s valet with no self worth. As if I hadn`t hate that enough the first few thousand times. I had such high hopes that this story, unlike the Michael thing and the Purgatory thing, would finally mean something.       

[Demented Daisy]

On the contrary, I think it would give him some self-worth, to realize that yes, he IS indeed strong and a good man and capable of the big things. Not the pathetic loser who can`t handle stuff and needs to be saved by the "real heroes" and/or God because he can`t hack it. That is the place of no belief in himself he already is at. I hardly want to see this cemented.

 

Taking to the Dean thread.

[catrox14]

Huh.  So apparently 10.21 is going to be filmed last this year? Can someone confirm this...it was something I read on Tumblr...? That means they have already filmed the finale?  I'm very confused right now.

[SueB]

No clue.  Although if there's a great deal of SFx/VFx, it's not unusual to should the finale out of order for many shows. 

[Wynne88]

On the contrary, I think it would give him some self-worth, to realize that yes, he IS indeed strong and a good man and capable of the big things.

 

If none of the stuff he has done in the last 10 years hasn't helped build his self-worth, then I doubt this would do it either.  He'll just blame himself for getting in the predicament in the first place.

 

I would be grateful if Sam had SOME role to play in these last few episodes.  Don't get me wrong, I like the DemonDean & MoC storyline, and am enjoying seeing Jensen get to use some of his undoubted skill.  I also have no problem with Dean having the A story throughout the season.  But outside of the first three episodes, Jared might as well taken the year off.

 

In an EW interview, Carver said "As for Sam, the younger brother remains focused on saving Dean, though Carver assures fans that Sam’s story will be as juicy and emotional as ever."   I'm not seeing anything 'juicy', although I will concede that the level of 'emotion' is pretty much the same as ever.  In other words, an occasional bitch-face, puppy eyes, and a few glances of concern at Dean.

[Aeryn13]

 

Huh.  So apparently 10.21 is going to be filmed last this year? Can someone confirm this...it was something I read on Tumblr...? That means they have already filmed the finale?  I'm very confused right now.

 

That would make sense if 10.21 is to have some guest star who couldn`t make the time to film otherwise. Which would mean it`s a) a significant character/actor from the past or b) an actor they REALLY want for a new part.

 

The less likely option would be rescheduling for a particular director but IMO they never did this before. And those assignments are given out way in advance so a previous commitment would be unlikely. 

[SueB]

From J2 Gold Panel at SeaCon:

 

 

Super Fan @AgentFreeWill  ·  10m 10 minutes ago
JA: Dean is not immortal. His vessel might be. If the Mark keeps the vessel alive "dean" would become something different. #seacon

[catrox14]

From J2 Gold Panel at SeaCon:

Wait, wait, wait. So Jensen's essentially saying that Dean is a vessel now? Is he saying that demon!Dean is still there? Someone better ask a damn followup question. Holy shit. I just had a thought.....

What if when Dean killed Cain it didn't actually kill him but instead during the time between us seeing Dean stabbing him and going down the stairs to Sam that maybe Cain is now possessing Dean?

[AwesomO4000]

Could he be saying that Dean's body can survive even if "Dean" isn't in it? In other words, his body could be soulless Dean and whether or not "Dean" is in it is another question. So it could either contain "Dean" or "Demon Dean" or no one, but the "body" would survive?

[Aeryn13]

 

What if when Dean killed Cain it didn't actually kill him but instead during the time between us seeing Dean stabbing him and going down the stairs to Sam that maybe Cain is now possessing Dean?

 

If he did, he would lie dormant at the moment because I haven`t seen anything to make me think Dean is currently not Dean. It`s an odd word choice, though. Unless he just meant "body".

 

But seriously, they did the demon-fake-out as last year`s Finale and that went nowhere so fast, our heads spun. Would they really do another thing like that this year? Because this time who would get excited for it? For another lackluster three-episode arc with a lame conclusion? Fool me once and all.

[rue721]

Meanwhile, I think Dean wants to believe in God.  But I think he doesn't want God to know he exists.  Like AYTG, IMDW, in The French Mistake he said that, in their universe, he and Sam were completely anonymous.  And they liked it that way.  He doesn't want God to notice him because it would force Dean to accept some things that he doesn't want to think about.

 

I agree with this. Though, what are the things that you think Dean would have to accept even though he'd rather not think about them?

 

It would irritate me so much if God were to step in. Why now? Why for Dean but not anybody else? It just makes me roll my eyes.

 

Wait, wait, wait. So Jensen's essentially saying that Dean is a vessel now? Is he saying that demon!Dean is still there? Someone better ask a damn followup question. Holy shit. I just had a thought.....

 

Could he be saying that Dean's body can survive even if "Dean" isn't in it? In other words, his body could be soulless Dean and whether or not "Dean" is in it is another question. So it could either contain "Dean" or "Demon Dean" or no one, but the "body" would survive?

 

Yes, I read that as Dean's *body* is immortal (because of the Mark), but that Dean's soul can be killed or cast out of his body or something -- the Mark doesn't care about keeping Dean qua Dean alive, it cares about keeping Dean's body, which is its host body, alive.

 

Right now, imo Dean's soul is "possessing" his body. I think that it was able to take back possession of the body by being made a demon, because demons can use bodies as vessels through possession (which regular human souls can't do, apparently).

 

I think what happened is:  when Dean was killed (by Metatron), his soul left his body, as part of death. But then Crowley transformed his soul into a demon-soul somehow, and then that demon-who-used-to-be-Dean was able to possess Dean's body as its vessel. And then that demon-who-used-to-be-Dean was "cured" of being a demon, so it was Dean's regular soul again (I guess?) -- but it kept possessing his body/vessel by default, I guess. Since all the cured demons apparently do keep possessing their vessels (and can no longer flee them like demons can?).

[SueB]

Summary of Gold Panel (episode/future episode only info) :http://sammyhale.tumblr.com/post/114950912032/j2-seacon-gold-panel-summary

 

- J2 talk how the end of this season is going to be the “most intense finale” O_O

- Jensen teases that Dean is not immortal, but his vessel could be. Hmmm… He goes on to say that if the Mark keeps the vessel alive

- Regarding expectations for the pilot, Jensen thought, “Wow, we might get two seasons.” Jared says he was afraid they would miss pilot season and be out of a job.

- Talking about relationships, Jared mentions he “did Ruby…oops…” and Jensen replies: “You certainly did."

-Jensen says that the Winchesters suffer from attachment disorder, that they don’t want relationships to protect others.

- Jared would love to see Richard Speight Jr come back to the show.

- Jared says they don’t say “series finale - that’s like Voldemort” lol

- Jensen says the Impala is always wet because it’s indoor shooting and when they go outside it might be raining. Jared says that it looks good wet and shiny… :)) Jared also says that rain on the Impala windows is better for lighting/filming. They tend to assume rain for interior car shots.

- Jensen says that Dean needs help but soon he starts denying that he does and that it will get worse.

- Jensen says that in real life Jared is one of his favorite people to go to. Jared says that’s because he’s three feet away - less than in the evidence below ;)

[shang yiet]

If none of the stuff he has done in the last 10 years hasn't helped build his self-worth, then I doubt this would do it either.  He'll just blame himself for getting in the predicament in the first place.

 

 

I'm really bored and fed up with Dean's endless self-worth issues. If he wants to think he's poison and crap despite everything, I give up. It's not an endearing trait. Maybe God can personally come down and give Dean a pat on the back. Anything to stop the navel gazing and moping.

I would be grateful if Sam had SOME role to play in these last few episodes. 

Carver said "As for Sam, the younger brother remains focused on saving Dean, though Carver assures fans that Sam’s story will be as juicy and emotional as ever."   I'm not seeing anything 'juicy', although I will concede that the level of 'emotion' is pretty much the same as ever.  In other words, an occasional bitch-face, puppy eyes, and a few glances of concern at Dean.

 

 

Yep, I'm not seeing the juicy and the emotional. I don't know why we can't see Sam confessing and giving long speeches. Why must the angst always go to Dean?

[Demented Daisy]

I agree with this. Though, what are the things that you think Dean would have to accept even though he'd rather not think about them?

 

It would irritate me so much if God were to step in. Why now? Why for Dean but not anybody else? It just makes me roll my eyes.

 

Dean would have to accept that he's important to the universe; that he isn't just a foot soldier.  He always rejected the idea that he was special in any way.  Can't say I blame him -- I'd hardly want God to point His finger at me and say that I'm "chosen".

 

And God has saved Sam, Dean, and Castiel before.  Multiple times with Cas, if I remember correctly.  If God still has work for Dean to do, why shouldn't He give an assist?

[rue721]

I guess I don't even get how God would need/want some human errand boy to do his work in the first place?

 

It also just seems like it would be no fun at all (story-wise) if God can just step in and fix things. It's like we're suddenly watching the Muppet Babies, and NO WORRIES KIDS, if anything really bad goes down, Nanny will come in and kiss everybody's booboos and it'll be OK.

 

Remember WAY BACK in S1, when Sam and Dean kept looking for John, and then they finally found him, and I guess he was helpful, but he was also difficult and confusing -- and even all together, Yellow Eyes still got the best of them. And then John was dead, and it was up to the guys to carry on the legacy and be grown men themselves, without any real guidance anymore? A deus ex machina now, done by the literal God, no less, would be the opposite of that.

 

Though if they do end up saying an Our Father onscreen and John answers, I will crack up laughing so hard that, for me anyway, that one moment would maybe be worth the show bringing in the angels and heaven and all that ridiculousness. 

 

ETA:

 

And while I was writing this comment, this is what came on Pandora (thought it was appropriate).

Edited March 29, 2015 by rue721

[SueB]

 

It also just seems like it would be no fun at all (story-wise) if God can just step in and fix things. It's like we're suddenly watching the Muppet Babies, and NO WORRIES KIDS, if anything really bad goes down, Nanny will come in and kiss everybody's booboos and it'll be OK.

Bingo.

 

And this is why God is an absentee father IMO.  I personally don't think Chuck/God is a dick.  I think he lets bad shit happen (like the Angels deciding to throw an Apocalypse) and it's up to the humans/Angels/other beings to get out of the mess.  He set up a decent system (good go up, bad go down, everyone gets free will).  But he's letting humans (in particular) sort out what they want.

 

So no, I don't want Chuck/God stepping in to fix the Mark of Cain.  I think he stepped in the one time (to put them on that plane) because it was literally "game over" at that point.  I think he keeps stepping in to resurrect Cas because Cas didn't have the natural spark that he gave humans.  So Cas gets extra lives to figure it out.  Of course now it sounds like God is playing a video game.  I don't feel that way at all.  I think he's Team Humanity but he wants them to win for themselves.  Because then it will mean something. And then they will have learned something along the way.  He doesn't want mindless babies. He wants people to grown and learn. And he'll let bad shit happen because that's what some folks choose to do.  

 

Note: I'm speaking In-Universe here as to why I think we won't see a literal deus ex machina. 

Edited March 29, 2015 by SueB

[Demented Daisy]

Personally, I think it'd be hilarious if Dean prayed to God (not Castiel, not any angel with their ears on, GOD) asking for assistance.  They have tried everything, but they can't find a cure.

 

And, frankly, as far as Dean is concerned, God owes Sam and Dean Winchester.  

 

Of course, he gets no response.  So he turns around to head back into the Lair o' Letters and -- Tah Dah!  Chuck says, "You rang?"

 

Cut scene.

 

Bwahahahahaha!  

[rue721]

I think he stepped in the one time (to put them on that plane) because it was literally "game over" at that point.  I think he keeps stepping in to resurrect Cas because Cas didn't have the natural spark that he gave humans.  So Cas gets extra lives to figure it out.  Of course now it sounds like God is playing a video game.  I don't feel that way at all.  I think he's Team Humanity but he wants them to win for themselves.  Because then it will mean something. And then they will have learned something along the way.  He doesn't want mindless babies. He wants people to grown and learn. And he'll let bad shit happen because that's what some folks choose to do.  

 

Maybe God stepped in at those times. But I think all they really know, is that they *don't know* how those things happened. Could have been anything/anyone. Of course Cas would say that it's God. Remember back in the day when weird stuff would happen and Dean would always be like, "MAYBE IT'S JOHN THO?!" Like in Sam, Interrupted. I think those times are analogous to the times when Cas has been like, "MAYBE IT'S GOD THO?!" And in Dean's case, it was never actually John. And in Cas's case, maybe it's never actually been God, either?

 

But I guess because of the "God works in mysterious ways" thing, God's still the most likely suspect.

 

Man, who I'm waiting on is still Lucifer. Why say the Mark came from him if they're never going to do anything with that idea? Bah.

[DittyDotDot]

Personally, I think it'd be hilarious if Dean prayed to God (not Castiel, not any angel with their ears on, GOD) asking for assistance.  They have tried everything, but they can't find a cure.

 

And, frankly, as far as Dean is concerned, God owes Sam and Dean Winchester.  

 

Of course, he gets no response.  So he turns around to head back into the Lair o' Letters and -- Tah Dah!  Chuck says, "You rang?"

 

Cut scene.

 

Bwahahahahaha!  

 

And even funnier, in the next scene we see Dean saying, "So, you're God now?...Really Chuck?...God?" ;)

 

I don't think God has to step in to fix things for them, maybe he shows up to let them know he can't fix this one. The Mark was made by Lucifer, therefore he can't undo it. Maybe he can point them in the right direction though? I'd really love to see Rob Benedict again and I think it could be done and not be a dues ex machina.

 

 

Anyway, back to the chatter about the finale not being shot last, if this is true, my Jeffery Dean Morgan theories are holding more and more water. ;)

[Demented Daisy]

Maybe God stepped in at those times. But I think all they really know, is that they *don't know* how those things happened. Could have been anything/anyone. Of course Cas would say that it's God. Remember back in the day when weird stuff would happen and Dean would always be like, "MAYBE IT'S JOHN THO?!" Like in Sam, Interrupted. I think those times are analogous to the times when Cas has been like, "MAYBE IT'S GOD THO?!" And in Dean's case, it was never actually John. And in Cas's case, maybe it's never actually been God, either?

 

But I guess because of the "God works in mysterious ways" thing, God's still the most likely suspect.

 

Well, if we believe Joshua in the Garden:

 

SAM: You’re Joshua.

JOSHUA: (nods) I’m Joshua.

SAM: So, you talk to God.

JOSHUA: Mostly, He talks to me.

SAM: Well, we need to speak to Him. It’s important.

DEAN: Where is he?

JOSHUA: On Earth.

DEAN: Doing what?

JOSHUA: I don’t know.

SAM: Do you know where on Earth?

JOSHUA: No, sorry. We don’t exactly speak face-to-face.

DEAN: I… I don’t get it. God’s not talking to nobody so…

JOSHUA: Why’s he talking to me. I sometimes think it’s because I can sympathize—gardener to gardener—and, between us, I think he gets lonely.

DEAN: (disgusted) Well, my heart’s breaking for him.

SAM: (interrupting) Well, can you at least get him a message for us?

JOSHUA: Actually, he has a message for you. Back off.

DEAN: What?

JOSHUA: He knows already. Everything you want to tell him.

DEAN: But…

JOSHUA: He knows what the angels are doing. He knows that the Apocalypse has begun. He just doesn’t think it’s his problem.

DEAN: (stunned) Not his problem?

JOSHUA: God saved you already. He put you on that plane. He brought back Castiel. He granted you salvation in heaven (he turns to face Sam directly) and after everything you’ve done too. It’s more than he’s intervened in a long time. He’s finished. Magic amulet or not, you won’t be able to find him.

[catrox14]

So fandom has gone a little crazy. Apparently jared said that their are parallels between Cas and Colette re Dean and Cain. And then jared said it was a very traumatic finale, looks over at Jensen who just about died laughing. Rumor mill in fandom iss that they are going to make Destiel canon.

Very interesting. As soon as I get a link to a video of those comments I'll post it here. Maybe Jensen was actually being more coy than we thought with the tweet of him and Misha and sunset. Things that make you go hmmmmm

[SueB]

Robbie Thompson tweeted several weeks back when they were writing the script that it was going to be an emotionally painful finale.  He even offered "counselling" services at VanCon for anyone traumatized.  Misha said the finale was a bummer.  

 

I'd say were looking at a very sad sad finale and I have a hard time equating that with canon Destiel.  Sure a portion (small, medium, large...take your pick) would be upset with Destiel, but "bummer", "traumatic" and "emotionally painful" don't really seem to equate. "Controversial", "keep us talking all summer", or "major story shift" would seem more along the lines of Destiel going canon.  

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Cas dies (because I think that would equate to those "bummer" descriptions as viewed by the writers).  I don't want that ...not at all.  Otherwise it's going to be Sam dying or permanently damaging his soul, or Dean dying again or being permanently a demon, or some other horrendous thing that has me skipping the glass and drinking straight from the bottle.  

 

I'd also say the cast might be trolling our asses but the writers were talking this way when the story was being written, Jim Micheals was tweeting along similar lines when they were setting up production....it all seems to point to very dark finale. And frankly, J2 in particular, are TERRIBLE secret keepers.  They are just bursting to tell us so little hints are likely genuine versus foilers IMO. 

 

Tara Maclay: "Assume crash positions." 

[catrox14]

I can see them making Destiel canon and THEN killing off Cas.  That would be about as emotional as it gets for many viewers.

[rue721]

I can see them making Destiel canon and THEN killing off Cas.  That would be about as emotional as it gets for many viewers.

 

Bwhahahahaha.

 

No, can't be that. It's Sam that's got the Dick'o'Death.

 

NOT EVEN CONTINUING on that line of thought.

[catrox14]

Bwhahahahaha.

 

No, can't be that. It's Sam that's got the Dick'o'Death.

 

NOT EVEN CONTINUING on that line of thought.

 

I wasn't actually trying to be funny. I'm dead serious.  I'm not saying Cas and Dean have sex or anything, but they could declare their actual love for one another. Maybe even a kiss before Cas dies saving Dean.   It gives Destielers what they want and then takes it away in a cruel fashion. I'm suddenly picturing Jack Harkness and Ianto Jones and I'm not a happy camper :(.

[SueB]

I would be so very opposed to fridging the gay.  It's within the skillset of these writers but I'm hoping they are not that stupid.  

[catrox14]

I would be so very opposed to fridging the gay.  It's within the skillset of these writers but I'm hoping they are not that stupid.  

 

Cas has been around for a long time and he wasn't created just to further Dean's angst...well not that way anyhow. I guess I get twitchy when "fridge" is used with any character death vs fridging.  I do think it would be awful to do, but "DRAMA" might trump unfortunate implications :(

Edited March 30, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

Cas has been around for a long time and he wasn't created just to further Dean's angst...well not that way anyhow. I guess I get twitchy when "fridge" is used with any character death vs fridging.  I do think it would be awful to do, but "DRAMA" might trump unfortunate implications :(

 

I'd characterize it that way if they had JUST started a romantic-based relationship and then Cas dies.  Cas is worth so much more than that (as you've indicated).  

[7kstar]

It is time for someone else to die.  End of 8, Sam's near death, End of 9, Dean dies...the history of the show doesn't go back and forth and usually there is something between the next round of Sam and Dean.

 

So Crowley's Mom...could be a given.  But then again they could let her stay for a bit so we have a woman in the cast. 

 

Cas dying would solve the pesky Cas lost his grace and is dying anyway.  So if he sacrificed his life to save Dean that would be the best way for him to go out.

 

I guess the only thing that would be the big reveal has Cas been given series regular again for season 11.  Poor Misha, isn't his track record he gets season regular only to have his role end? 

 

And I hate to say this but usually they don't really surprise us.  Dean going to hell the first time might have been the big one they pulled off, but everything else has been pretty easy to spot coming. 

 

Now if they are trying to do something we are expecting and trolling us so we can't guess that might be a slim chance...but I doubt it.

 

If they brought back JDM that would be a surprise, but so far I think that is just wishful thinking.

[AwesomO4000]

I'd characterize it that way if they had JUST started a romantic-based relationship and then Cas dies.  Cas is worth so much more than that (as you've indicated).

 

 

I'm not sure that usual Cas - i.e. Cas that is not human or an amnesia sufferer - does romantic. He generally equates being an angel as belonging to a "much better club" (TM Future Cas). I don't remember him as a "normal" angel showing much of an inkling in that direction, except as "mimicry" (like when he kissed Meg).

 

I'm more concerned that the parallels would be that Cas loves Dean just as he is... and then like Colette dies because bad guys - maybe Crowley and/or Rowena? - try to use his death to break Dean similar to how the demons tried to get Cain back. Romantic love wouldn't be needed for that parallel.

 

I'm also not sure that angels can be gay per se. They don't seem to necessarily care one way or another which kind of vessel they take. They may prefer one or the other eventually, but they've been shown to switch. Raphael had no problem with taking a woman vessel (he had the same aura about him in both vessels). Castiel himself seemed fine with taking Claire as a vessel. Most don't even seem to be sexual beings  - the exceptions I remember off the top of my head being Gabriel and Balthazar. It usually represents when an angel has gone "rogue" and doesn't really care about being "angelic" any more. Castiel, however, does indeed seem to like and have pride in being an angel.

 

All my blabbering above to say that I can see Castiel telling Dean he loves him and vica versa, but there would likely need to be something more to precipitate anything physical with the backstory in the verse and the personality they've given Cas so far, in my opinion.  For me, they missed the opportunity to do that in "The End" as that Castiel would have been the best opportunity to go there, in my opinion.

 

(All this is canonically speaking by the way. The realm of fanfic is totally different).

[rue721]

I'm more concerned that the parallels would be that Cas loves Dean just as he is... and then like Colette dies because bad guys - maybe Crowley and/or Rowena? - try to use his death to break Dean similar to how the demons tried to get Cain back. Romantic love wouldn't be needed for that parallel.

 

Cain watched that demon break Colette's bones, but he's the one who stabbed her and then had her die in his arms from that wound. I think that's probably what the parallel is going to be. Maybe Dean's going to be the one to deal the killing blow and Cas will die in his arms, or something similar to that. Maybe Cas is keeping the Blade safe in his chest cavity (!) like he did that tablet, and Dean will rip it out trying to get at it to attack somebody? Ewwww. (Also, now I kind of want to see that?).

 

But anyway, there is just a 0% chance imo that Destiel is going to become canon, imo, let alone that it'll only NOW become canon, when they only have to keep "playing coy" for thirty more seconds because Cas is about to be written off anyway. Just 0% chance. Which I'm happy about because come on. An "epic romance," "star-crossed lovers" kind of parting would be so cheesy, even for this show.

 

Though if the show went the route that Dean is "saved by the love of a good [man]" it might circle all the way back from being a cornball Nicholas Sparks romantic cliche type of thing to actually kind of fun and weird. But anyway, not going to happen, and that's for the best imo.

 

I do think Cas is probably going to be dying or ascending into heaven or trading spots with Jimmy or something like that, though. The show has been foreshadowing Cas leaving all season, imo. And there will probably be crying and declarations of love and all that right before he goes, because that's how SPN does.

[mertensia]

I forgot that Collette was Cain's wife- I kept thinking "Clown College Collette?" And your comments were, using that reference, baffling.

[Demented Daisy]

I forgot that Collette was Cain's wife- I kept thinking "Clown College Collette?" And your comments were, using that reference, baffling.

 

Thank Chuck I wasn't the only one....

[DittyDotDot]

I forgot that Collette was Cain's wife- I kept thinking "Clown College Collette?" And your comments were, using that reference, baffling.

 

I too was at a loss!

 

You know what's weird? I was so sure they were going to kill Castiel this season based on what they were doing with him at the beginning of the season. I also expected them to kill Crowley by the end of the season, too. But, I was also under the impression it would probably be the last season; after they were renewed I began to question that.  Now you guys got me wondering if they're planning on following through with it.

 

I highly doubt the'll make Destiel cannon, but I'm sure some will think it is anyway and others will find a way to be offended by it. I wouldn't be surprised if Jensen is thinking more along those lines especially after all the dustup over those harmless sunset tweets.

[Demented Daisy]

Yep, I had a feeling at the beginning of the season that Castiel would die.  Less so Crowley -- I thought Rowena would probably die by the end of the season (still do, it fits the pattern).  Then, if we got S11, Crowley might die.

 

If they're thinking S11 will be the last, then I'm okay with Castiel dying.  But if they're planning on going on as long as they keep getting renewed (why would the CW cancel at this point?), then I'm gonna be pissed if Crowley sticks around longer than Cas.

 

I know I've said it a thousand times, but Crowley needs to die.  They've killed for less.  Much less.  Yeah, yeah, the devil you know, blah blah blah.  They're supposed to fight evil, not join it!  (That's not literal, by the way.  But they have teamed up with Crowley far too many times for my taste.)

[catrox14]

Sneak peek from 'Inside Man'. 

 

Sam, you are the worst liar. You aren't fooling Dean.  I loved the

 

"I trust you. Make good choices" juxtaposed with the completely skeptical look on Dean's face.  He's such a Dad.

 

https://youtu.be/wA-dW6fgBb4

Edited March 30, 2015 by catrox14

[Altered Reality]

And you just know Dean is *not* going to stay out of Sam's room.

[catrox14]

And you just know Dean is *not* going to stay out of Sam's room.

 

I mean seriously, Sam?  If you tell a parent to stay out of your room, the very first thing the parent will do is go in your room, because clearly you are trying to hide something.  And since when are the boys rooms off limits to each other?  Sigh.

[SueB]

I so hope Sam had set up a Home Alone trap for Dean when he goes into his room. Something with spray glue glitter and feathers. And a video camera. Boys could use a laugh.

And yes, Sam is really bad at sneaky.

ETA. I joke 'make good choices' to my 24 yr old all the time.

Edited March 30, 2015 by SueB

[catrox14]

I so hope Sam had set up a Home Alone trap for Dean when he goes into his room. Something with spray glue glitter and feathers. And a video camera. Boys could use a laugh.

And yes, Sam is really bad at sneaky.

ETA. I joke 'make good choices' to my 24 yr old all the time.

 

The booby trap would be funny but it doesn't explain why Sam telling him to stay out. Sam is always going into Dean's room unannounced. I hope Dean finds a wall of weird in Sam's room with all the serial killer crap and Cain and Abel stuff. 

[Altered Reality]

I so hope Sam had set up a Home Alone trap for Dean when he goes into his room. Something with spray glue glitter and feathers. And a video camera. Boys could use a laugh.

And yes, Sam is really bad at sneaky.

ETA. I joke 'make good choices' to my 24 yr old all the time.

That I'd love to see!  And I agree, the boys could really use a laugh.

[rue721]

OK, I kind of want to see this French movie about a mime that's secretly a cockroach.

 

I think Sam is using reverse psychology to try and tempt Dean into going into his room for some reason! Who would hear WHATEVER YOU DO, DON'T GO IN MY ROOM! and not think, "hmmm, going in his room seemed really boring and pointless before, but now I wonder why he wants me to stay away? I'm going in there IMMEDIATELY!"

 

Ordinarily, I kind of doubt that Dean is chilling out in there, though, because why would he? There's probably nothing in Sam's room but an unmade bed, random books and crap on the floor, and a pile of dirty laundry. And maybe an old pickle jar filled with loose change.