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Spoilers With Speculation


SueB
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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1 hour ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

No.  Please just No.  I don't want to see Sam possessed by Lucifer again.  At all.  If you want Dean possessed by Michael, okay that's fine, whatever.  But leave Sam out of it.  Sam could find another way to get Dean de-possessed of Michael other than letting Lucifer possess him again.  

Seriously!! Please, no more possessions and no more angel wars!

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3 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Well, whether you agree with the interpretation or not, canon is that Dean was there when Sam overcame Lucifer long enough to jump in the cage, so if there is to be a role reversal of Swan Song, it seems that Sam should be there when Dean overcomes Michael enough to eject him  - and that it's ambiguous enough to argue that Sam did help Dean.  Or not.  But it probably won't be 100% clear either way.   And that ambiguity will likely make some people very unhappy.  All I'm saying is: be careful what you wish for!

I never said Dean wasn't present at the time. I'm saying there is a lot of division in fandom as to how much Dean's influence had to do with Sam's ability to break through Lucifer's hold, some think it's all of it, some think it's a portion, some think it had nothing to do with it at all other than Dean driving the car with the army men that triggered Sam to fight or Lucifer to let go for a minute. For me, I don't think there needs to be a role reversal on that.

And if there is ambiguity on that, I'm fine with it because at least Dean will have had the Michael Sword arc come to fruition :)

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3 hours ago, Diane said:

I like it, its a poster, music is fine. 

Ditto--I like the poster...nice new graphic.  The music is fine.  Regarding Dean and Michael--doesn't seem they are going there nor do they need to.  This from someone who Dean is his favorite...never thought he needed it, Dean was always the one who rejected that the most.  Very much in his character.

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2 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Ditto--I like the poster...nice new graphic.  The music is fine.  Regarding Dean and Michael--doesn't seem they are going there nor do they need to.  This from someone who Dean is his favorite...never thought he needed it, Dean was always the one who rejected that the most.  Very much in his character.

No one said Dean saying no to Michael wasn't in character and yet at the same time Dean was also going to say yes to Michael and IMO either choice would be in character because Dean is a complicated and complex character.

To me if Dean was presented with a choice to let Michael possess him to save the world, why wouldn't he do it? Dean  was willing to be sent to outer space to keep the Darkness in check despite his own suffering and he was willing to take the Mark on again, to save the world from Amara, but reasons, he couldn't. But he was willing to do it.

I don't see much reason why it would be OOC for him to say yes to Michael if that was required to save the world or maybe even Sam. 

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5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

No one said Dean saying no to Michael wasn't in character and yet at the same time Dean was also going to say yes to Michael and IMO either choice would be in character because Dean is a complicated and complex character.

To me if Dean was presented with a choice to let Michael possess him to save the world, why wouldn't he do it? Dean  was willing to be sent to outer space to keep the Darkness in check despite his own suffering and he was willing to take the Mark on again, to save the world from Amara, but reasons, he couldn't. But he was willing to do it.

I don't see much reason why it would be OOC for him to say yes to Michael if that was required to save the world or maybe even Sam. 

Dean would do everything not to be Michael's meat suit--he's Mr. Team Free Will himself.  But yes only as a last resort he may.  But he doesn't need to for me at all.  I love that he defies that.

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4 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Dean would do everything not to be Michael's meat suit--he's Mr. Team Free Will himself.  But yes only as a last resort he may.  But he doesn't need to for me at all.  I love that he defies that.

 I understand Dean's character, that he does what he can to define those things and yet there may come a time where he has to make that choice. For me, it wouldn't change his humanity in the least. I understand the fear that Dean could be locked down by Michael, but that's part of the risk of him making that kind of sacrifice.

I don't think Sam has been tainted because he said yes to Lucifer nor did he lose his humanity forever. I don't see Sam as Samifer forever because he was Lucifer's vessel. Dean completely lost his humanity when he was turned into a demon. And he got it back. I mean seriously though, Dean murdered like 15 people when he had the Mark of Cain and that was AFTER he became human again. I guess I just don't really see why Dean being Michael is the ONE THING too far for Dean.. But that's just me :)

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30 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

 I understand Dean's character, that he does what he can to define those things and yet there may come a time where he has to make that choice. For me, it wouldn't change his humanity in the least. I understand the fear that Dean could be locked down by Michael, but that's part of the risk of him making that kind of sacrifice.

I don't think Sam has been tainted because he said yes to Lucifer nor did he lose his humanity forever. I don't see Sam as Samifer forever because he was Lucifer's vessel. Dean completely lost his humanity when he was turned into a demon. And he got it back. I mean seriously though, Dean murdered like 15 people when he had the Mark of Cain and that was AFTER he became human again. I guess I just don't really see why Dean being Michael is the ONE THING too far for Dean.. But that's just me :)

Yes it wouldn't ruin Dean--I just like it better that he does it Team Free Will way...it's badass, cool and Dean to the core.  So personally I don't need it.

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2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Pics of the boys from an Argentinian news outlet. I think it's from today.

Beautiful pics of the guys.  Did anyone else notice the stacks of papers? over Jared's shoulder?  The top, most noticeable, is "beer and music posters'.  Lol.  I got a kick out of that.  And then "hunter walls", whatever that means.  And "sheriff graphics".  

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THIS IS NOT A DRILL. CAS HAS A DIFFERENT COAT. The color is different than his old one but it's a similar style ALSO HIS TIE IS the old color and kind of off center like he wore in s4 and s5. HELP.

WHAT IS HAPPENING? Is this a flashback? A past Cas???

Edited by catrox14
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Initial observations (based on a .25 speed playback):

- I think Cas DOES have a different coat, I think that's him walking with the coat at mid-shin at the start.
- There's a scene of Dean coming around the corner and immediately throwing a knife at whatever Sam is staring at in shock.  First I thought it was at the log cabin but the clothes are right.  I'm still not sure who he's throwing the knife at but Jack seems obvious.
- White suite new leader of Hell: I'm guessing Asmodeus. 
- Scene of Dean being picked up and thrown on a bed (and it's Jensen doing the stunt) flashes by as we get closer to the end. And another action scene of him jumping out of the way of car?
- Donatello (or was it a different painter/ninja turtle) is BACK! I presume God gave him his soul back or something.
 

Opinions:
- Like the Pointer Sisters, I'm So Excited.
- I find it interesting that Dean calls Chuck "God".  Like, he's not bought into the folksy "Chuck" persona.  He's calling him God because he is.  It's almost a little rebellion because maybe he wants Chuck to think he's still holding him accountable to BE God.  
- I wonder if Donatello (?) was sent by Chuck?  
- So, those of you who thought Crowley was boring as King of Hell should be happy -- you have what appears to be a more scary King of Hell now.  Personally I'd rather have Crowley but I get the need to take away allies from the boys from a drama perspective.  And Crowley was pretty much a ally at this point.
- Jack seems to be getting control of his powers by the time we get to that episode where he goes out with the boys.  In his naked scene he seems pretty "raw".

I can't wait.

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Okay here is my Cas theory. It is himself he meets in the empty assuming that is going to be a thing. The new Cas will be a combination of all past Cas' that were blown up and fused back together. Maybe that's why Cas' coat is kind of like his old one but a butt ugly shade and he isn't sporting sex hair but a similar tie. 

Looks like Donatello is back. And I'm pretty sure the dude in white is Asmodeus. Like why a white suit? That's kind of sacred to me with Samifer. But I guess he's gonna take over Hell now so he'll wear white whereas Crowley wore black on black.  I want Crowley back.

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2 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Beautiful pics of the guys.  Did anyone else notice the stacks of papers? over Jared's shoulder?  The top, most noticeable, is "beer and music posters'.  Lol.  I got a kick out of that.  And then "hunter walls", whatever that means.  And "sheriff graphics".  

So the only place they could find for the interview was the janitor's closet?  And the fancy name cards....

The guys do look beautiful!

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As a reminder- this thread is SPOILERS WITH SPECULATION.  That means talking about what has happened in the PAST is not on topic.  UNLESS you're saying "I think this will happen because of xyz".  This topic has gotten way off track.

Also, another reminder that pertains to all of the Supernatural threads- anything that even sniffs of bitterness is hidden with zero discussion.  There is a thread for that.  Keep it there.

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10 hours ago, SueB said:

- There's a scene of Dean coming around the corner and immediately throwing a knife at whatever Sam is staring at in shock.

It's not a knife.  I'm pretty sure it's a wrench.  Yes, I double-triple-quadruple checked.  :)  Is it wrong that I immediately thought of the line "If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball."?

10 hours ago, SueB said:

- Donatello (or was it a different painter/ninja turtle) is BACK! I presume God gave him his soul back or something.

I wondered if that was in the AU, cause didn't Donatello actually die, not just get his soul sucked out by Amara?  I was happy to see him though!

ETA: okay, probably not the AU, because Baby is behind them.  Unless they drove the car through the rift - or there's an AU Baby!

10 hours ago, SueB said:

I can't wait.

I agree.  I think it looks exciting.  One, itty bitty nit that isn't even really - I noticed that the premier is Thursday, October 12.  I realize that it's airing Thursday nights now, but how cool would it have been to have the premier of S13 on Friday the 13th?  

ETA: my bad: I got the name of the book wrong.  It's Saturday, not Thursday.  Oh well.  

Edited by RulerofallIsurvey
Not thursday
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19 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Just a wish, not even spec, but (having just rewatched Jus in Bello) *I WANT HUNTER!HENRICKSON IN THE AU.*  That is all.  

I also want Gordon in the AU--I REALLY wanted him in Purgatory--but considering what Sterling is currently working on, I'm quite certain that's not gonna happen. I'd love to see an AU version of Jo and Ash, too. An AU Garth would be fun too, I could totally see him surviving over there even though he probably shouldn't--never count Garth out! Even though it's not really Rufus, at the very least, we better get to see an AU Rufus this time instead of just a name drop.

18 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I don't understand how the Michael story has been done to death, when it hasn't been done at all really. It was a drop in the bucket compared to what they have done with Lucifer, Gabriel, even Raphael to a degree.

I think that's the point, best leave it alone instead of drag it out until everyone is sick of it. Same with Demon Dean, I think it was a mercy they didn't drag it out until everyone was sick of it like they did with Soulless Sam. Although, I think we could've went an episode or two more before the sickness set in on that front. So, yeah, I predict we'll all hate and be sick of Micheal by the by the mid-season finale, so it's probably best they didn't saddle Jensen with it.

17 hours ago, catrox14 said:

 Dawn of Darkness? WTF is that supposed to mean LOL. Also, I have other opinions that I'll take to the bitterness thread, maybe LOL

What kind of terrible music is this?

 

I like the look of it, but my first thought was, didn't the Darkness dawn two years ago? Silly promo monkeys!! ;)

16 hours ago, auntvi said:

Seriously!! Please, no more possessions and no more angel wars!

Amen to that, sister!

11 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Beautiful pics of the guys.  Did anyone else notice the stacks of papers? over Jared's shoulder?  The top, most noticeable, is "beer and music posters'.  Lol.  I got a kick out of that.  And then "hunter walls", whatever that means.  And "sheriff graphics".  

Oh that's so cute. I didn't make them big enough to see that. So, they must be sitting in a prop office or something.?

I'm assuming "Hunter Walls" are things they used to tack on the walls when working a case--like John's wall in that motel room in the Pilot--but I'm trying really hard to make it into something else so I can use it in everyday life somehow...HELP!! ;)

10 hours ago, SueB said:
How come no one is talking about this yet?

You Tube link, better quality:

Because I just NOW saw it! ;)

10 hours ago, SueB said:

Initial observations (based on a .25 speed playback):

- I think Cas DOES have a different coat, I think that's him walking with the coat at mid-shin at the start.
- There's a scene of Dean coming around the corner and immediately throwing a knife at whatever Sam is staring at in shock.  First I thought it was at the log cabin but the clothes are right.  I'm still not sure who he's throwing the knife at but Jack seems obvious.
- White suite new leader of Hell: I'm guessing Asmodeus. 
- Scene of Dean being picked up and thrown on a bed (and it's Jensen doing the stunt) flashes by as we get closer to the end. And another action scene of him jumping out of the way of car?
- Donatello (or was it a different painter/ninja turtle) is BACK! I presume God gave him his soul back or something.
 

Opinions:
- Like the Pointer Sisters, I'm So Excited.
- I find it interesting that Dean calls Chuck "God".  Like, he's not bought into the folksy "Chuck" persona.  He's calling him God because he is.  It's almost a little rebellion because maybe he wants Chuck to think he's still holding him accountable to BE God.  
- I wonder if Donatello (?) was sent by Chuck?  
- So, those of you who thought Crowley was boring as King of Hell should be happy -- you have what appears to be a more scary King of Hell now.  Personally I'd rather have Crowley but I get the need to take away allies from the boys from a drama perspective.  And Crowley was pretty much a ally at this point.
- Jack seems to be getting control of his powers by the time we get to that episode where he goes out with the boys.  In his naked scene he seems pretty "raw".

I can't wait.

  • Trench coat: It seems like Cass might be meeting Death as himself or meeting previous versions of himself who, I'm guessing, is Death. So, he probably returns in his "new" trench, but we may see the old trench too. Oh wait, you said it WAS a new trench...sorry, must slow down when reading. 
  • The knife bit: Yeah, it's probably that moment at the end of the finale when Sam first sees Jack and Dean comes around the corner and reacts slightly differently.
  • I'm thinking Asmodeus too. TBH, I'm kinda disappointed that we see a leader rise so early in the season. I was hoping to see Hell go to...well hell for a good long while. Ah well, whatcha gonna do?
  • I didn't see Donatello...guess I need to rewatch. Also, Pointer Sisters? Now I'm wondering if I missed something altogether?

 

ETA: Donatello makes sense, though, especially if Dean is praying to God. Like maybe they go see him because Dean hopes he can get a message to God?

Edited by DittyDotDot
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53 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Also, Pointer Sisters? Now I'm wondering if I missed something altogether?

Just the dance party part -- starts at 58 secs

Trigger Warning: Full metal jacket 80's flashback.

 

ETA: ALSO legit excited about S13:

Edited by SueB
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17 minutes ago, SueB said:

Just the dance party part -- starts at 58 secs

Trigger Warning: Full metal jacket 80's flashback.

Gotcha! Again, should slow down when reading, I thought you were saying you liked the Pointer Sisters part of the promo--which I couldn't find--and not just that you felt like the Pointer Sisters--so excited. 

Sorry.

Edited by DittyDotDot
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Upon further reflection, that trench coat at the beginning COULD be AUMichael.  He's got a long trench coat too.  Although it seems more like an industrial building than The Empty.

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13 hours ago, catrox14 said:

THIS IS NOT A DRILL. CAS HAS A DIFFERENT COAT. The color is different than his old one but it's a similar style ALSO HIS TIE IS the old color and kind of off center like he wore in s4 and s5. HELP.

Just because I notice stuff like this: adding to the list of props from the guy's pics (Jared was blocking the left hand stack) there is also: 'hospital posters', my favorite so far: 'alien conspiracy', and 'misc bulletin boards'.  Am I the only one who'd like to see more of these 'alien conspiracy' props?  

2 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

I'm assuming "Hunter Walls" are things they used to tack on the walls when working a case--like John's wall in that motel room in the Pilot--but I'm trying really hard to make it into something else so I can use it in everyday life somehow...HELP!! ;)

Ah, that makes sense.  Got no help on how to incorporate it into your everyday life though!  lol!

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2 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Just because I notice stuff like this: adding to the list of props from the guy's pics (Jared was blocking the left hand stack) there is also: 'hospital posters', my favorite so far: 'alien conspiracy', and 'misc bulletin boards'.  Am I the only one who'd like to see more of these 'alien conspiracy' props?  

Ah, that makes sense.  Got no help on how to incorporate it into your everyday life though!  lol!

Yes!  to more alien conspiracies!!

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15 hours ago, catrox14 said:

THIS IS NOT A DRILL. CAS HAS A DIFFERENT COAT. The color is different than his old one but it's a similar style ALSO HIS TIE IS the old color and kind of off center like he wore in s4 and s5. HELP.

WHAT IS HAPPENING? Is this a flashback? A past Cas???

Hmm...maybe it's just me but I like the new Cas ensemble.  I like the darker colors.  Anyone know what the Spanish is saying beneath the Misha photos and also the J's photos?

Edited by Jakes
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According to Google translate: beneath the guys' pic: 

ETA: I didn't go back far enough.  Beneath the guys' multi pic from La Cosa Cine:

Stay with someone who ... bah, stay with them. So we have them. #Supernatural #LaCosaWarner

Beneath the Instagram shot from omelete:

HELP! Have someone look at you as @rafaaagonz looks at the supernatural stars ?❤️ Taking advantage of the fact that the series is 13 years old now, Omelete is in Vancouver to visit the set (we enter Dean's room!) And interview @jaredpadalecki, @jensenackles, @misha and more! Check it out NOW in our Stories o /

Beneath Misha:

They are so great that we are going to share Misha's best faces for our photos. #SupernaturalDay #LaCosaWarner

Edited by RulerofallIsurvey
more
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2 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Am I the only one who'd like to see more of these 'alien conspiracy' props?  

The more weird props, the better, I say!

2 hours ago, SueB said:

I'd pay money to go back to the fairy realm.  Seems like untouched potential.

I don't know, there are just somethings I kinda think the show should just leave up to our imaginations. I'm not opposed to having fairies drop into our world and such, but us--or Sam and Dean--going there seems like a set up for disappointment. Remember Hell at the end of S8? ;)

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I've never liked that darker tan on Misha. I think it just doesn't work with his skin tone. The shape of the one in s9 - s12 was boxy and it didn't show his frame well. It just hangs on him and IMO makes him look frumpy and smaller than he really is. which maybe that's what they wanted for his story line. But it wasn't a good look on Misha. And Misha is a not a skinny guy (and PLEASE fanfic writers stop saying Cas is sleight and pale and wan, he's not). Misha is beefy with broad shoulders, big biceps, solid thighs and he's tall! And I'm not saying this in an eye candy way. That is Misha's build. I hope this new coat highlights his shape more which helps Cas look much more powerful. JMHO

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44 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

According to Google translate: beneath the guys' pic: 

ETA: I didn't go back far enough.  Beneath the guys' multi pic from La Cosa Cine:

Stay with someone who ... bah, stay with them. So we have them. #Supernatural #LaCosaWarner

Beneath the Instagram shot from omelete:

HELP! Have someone look at you as @rafaaagonz looks at the supernatural stars ?❤️ Taking advantage of the fact that the series is 13 years old now, Omelete is in Vancouver to visit the set (we enter Dean's room!) And interview @jaredpadalecki, @jensenackles, @misha and more! Check it out NOW in our Stories o /

Beneath Misha:

They are so great that we are going to share Misha's best faces for our photos. #SupernaturalDay #LaCosaWarner

Thanks!

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3 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

The more weird props, the better, I say!

I don't know, there are just somethings I kinda think the show should just leave up to our imaginations. I'm not opposed to having fairies drop into our world and such, but us--or Sam and Dean--going there seems like a set up for disappointment. Remember Hell at the end of S8? ;)

I'm worried that Buck Lemming would not be able to resist every inappropriate "fairy" joke in the world. If I could trust the writers maybe, but yeah....I'd rather they just not go there.

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16 hours ago, catrox14 said:

And I'm pretty sure the dude in white is Asmodeus. Like why a white suit? That's kind of sacred to me with Samifer.

Just now saw this comment of yours.  While I wouldn't say the white suit was sacred to me with Samifer, seeing it on the dude (speculation is probably right about Asmodeus) in the promo did remind me of that.  I really wish they hadn't done that - dressed the new boss of hell in a white suit like Future Lucifer.  But I guess they had to differentiate him from Crowley somehow.  Would a red suit have been too much? ;)

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4 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Just now saw this comment of yours.  While I wouldn't say the white suit was sacred to me with Samifer, seeing it on the dude (speculation is probably right about Asmodeus) in the promo did remind me of that.  I really wish they hadn't done that - dressed the new boss of hell in a white suit like Future Lucifer.  But I guess they had to differentiate him from Crowley somehow.  Would a red suit have been too much? ;)

Heh, something like this? ;)

il_570xN.740378137_tsuz.jpg

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The new King of Hell has a good look to him.  I actually remember him from General Hospital when I watched for a brief time a couple of years ago--he played a villain...he was actually pretty good from what I remember.  He played I think Carlos(a con) who was the ex of a girl who was dating Robin Scorpio's husband.

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I thought maybe those picks of Jackifer with the camel colored jacket was just random but now he's in a camel colored suit coat similar to Cas coat and now it seems intentional and I'm a little offended by it. Show, Jackifer is not a replacement for Castiel.  And yes, I can see where maybe Jackifer is modeling himself after Cas on some level, and the Destiel shipper in me would find it amusing if Dean took him shopping and was like 'Here wear this coat and this tie" and he's not really conscious that he's directing him to Cas like clothing but still...this bugs me.

And it seems like this was during the filming of 13.06 so I think Jackifer, Cas, Dean and Sam must be filming together. But maybe not. They are all being interviewed together or rather on the same day.

 

tumblr_owal2m13ic1rds012o5_1280.jpg

Edited by catrox14
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ETA: These all seem to be from Turner Prensa. Seems like it was a day on set for Latin American media.ETA: If you click on the picture  there is a slide show of the other photos. Click on the arrow to the right and you can cycle through them. I can  seem to get them to embed individually

Edited by catrox14
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15 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I thought maybe those picks of Jackifer with the camel colored jacket was just random but now he's in a camel colored suit coat similar to Cas coat and now it seems intentional and I'm a little offended by it. Show, Jackifer is not a replacement for Castiel.  And yes, I can see where maybe Jackifer is modeling himself after Cas on some level, and the Destiel shipper in me would find it amusing if Dean took him shopping and was like 'Here wear this coat and this tie" and he's not really conscious that he's directing him to Cas like clothing but still...this bugs me.

And it seems like this was during the filming of 13.06 so I think Jackifer, Cas, Dean and Sam must be filming together. But maybe not. They are all being interviewed together.

 

tumblr_owal2m13ic1rds012o5_1280.jpg

On an unrelated note, perhaps it'll look better in proper scenes, but on the stills at least, that hair style really doesn't suit Alexander and looks awful IMO.

Edited by Wayward Son
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32 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

ETA: These all seem to be from Turner Prensa. Seems like it was a day on set for Latin American media.ETA: If you click on the picture  there is a slide show of the other photos. Click on the arrow to the right and you can cycle through them. I can  seem to get them to embed individually

What's up with the 9th pic? It looks like a bunker room but with hell chain/hook like shadows.

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4 minutes ago, trxr4kids said:

What's up with the 9th pic? It looks like a bunker room but with hell chain/hook like shadows.

Oh. I didn't notice that. I'll have to look again

ETA: I think it's just the studio infrastructure in the shadows.

But what I did notice is the mirror is broken.

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8 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Oh. I didn't notice that. I'll have to look again

ETA: I think it's just the studio infrastructure in the shadows.

But what I did notice is the mirror is broken.

Oh duh, you're right lol. I saw the shadows and broken mirror and thought of hellucinations. As if they'd have Dean have a flashback, silly me.

Edited by trxr4kids
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