Spoilers With Speculation

[Aeryn13]

The Mary stuff couldn`t really play out any other way if they are - and it seems like it - going the way of a Mary who from her point of view just has a four-year-old and a baby. You can`t reintegrate that with two adult men. I think Amara genuinely wanted to do something nice for Dean but that is a recipe for disaster. Mary is the one family member he has that, on account of dying so early in his life, is untarnished by things that simply happen between people when you get older. And now that is gonna get ruined too.

Quote

Mary's just going to love that Sam and Dean are on speaking terms with the King of Hell. I foresee grounding in the future for the boys.

I hope they don`t play this dynamic even as a joke. I know it`s somewhat of a cultural difference - what with calling parents/parental figures "Sir" or "Ma`am" by younger adults and stuff like how Ellen or Misery or even Bobby acted - but those things just weird me out so much, I can`t help it.      

The MOL just sound incredibly Sue-tastic.  foresee the same problem with them that Thompson had with Charlie where he made her perfect at everything. If Dabb has the same attitude towards his new posh toys, that is gonna go over like a lead balloon. I mean "too special for even the Leviathans to clone" becomes the new "not a single supernatural death in decades".

As for Dean overall, Dabb doesn`t seem to give him much thought. Or any really. Not that I expected it or that, in fairness, he has anything of note to say about anyone else but it`s probably gonna be another white noise Comic Con. At least Dean kinda got his hero moment in in the Season 11 Finale so it`s easier to take if/when he has nothing going on in Season 12. 

Edited July 17, 2016 by Aeryn13

[MysteryGuest]

I'm hoping we're reading too much into the little bit of possible spoiler we were given.  I truly do not want Mary back in their lives in any significant way.  Say goodbye and send her off to heaven where she belongs, and call it a day.  As someone else pointed out above, why bring her back just to make her suffer some more when she realizes that her sons did grow up to be hunters, and have lost every single person that meant anything to them?  How is that a good thing?  

Since Misha was quoted somewhere as saying that Cas will have his powers back, I'm going with the idea that Chuck "fixed" him before he left.  So with that in mind. maybe Cas was helping Dean get Mary to heaven?  I can only hope.

I'm going to assume that the MOL Euro version will be much the same as the American version, only a bit stiffer.  They all look down their noses at hunters, so this won't be any different.  The boys will manage to convert Lady Whatsherface to their side after a few episodes, I'm guessing.  I just don't want this season to turn into 23 episodes of "Defending Your Life".  

Edited July 17, 2016 by MysteryGuest

[catrox14]

I can't seem to embed a tweet via mobile but Jim Michaels  tweeted they are starting to tech scout episode 12.02...which seems odd because  I thought they tech scout two episodes ahead? But if it's not a mistake then all the stuff from the set WAS about ep1 and they are not starting to film ep2 today? Is this a clue that 12.01 will be a two part episode?

[DittyDotDot]

I believe, they usually do prep only one episode ahead, so it sounds like it might be consistent with prep for episode 2. Depending on what they're scouting, they might do that further in advance, I'm not sure. But this could be the "final" scout when they take all the department heads out and walk through all the locations and make sure it all fits with what needs to be done before they start shooting.

When did they start filming episode 1? They usually shoot 8 days, so they might still be filming the same episode they were filming last week depending on when they started shooting.

[Diane]

Jason Fischer ‏@JasonFischer77

#supernatural QOTD @FangasmSPN @WinchesterBros @SuperWiki @@SPN_France @SPNMex @SPNGer And @spnnoticiasbr

 

Ha, finally was able to add a picture! The above was tweeted today.

[DittyDotDot]

So, it looks like they still have three days of shooting left on episode 1...interesting. Thanks @Diane.

[Diane]

Jason Fischer ‏@JasonFischer77 Jul 12

#supernatural daily tracker board in all its glory. Day 1 of 184. Artwork courtesy of @EmmaPeterson_

Can't get the other to post. But day one was 7-12

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I can't seem to embed a tweet via mobile but Jim Michaels  tweeted they are starting to tech scout episode 12.02...which seems odd because  I thought they tech scout two episodes ahead? But if it's not a mistake then all the stuff from the set WAS about ep1 and they are not starting to film ep2 today? Is this a clue that 12.01 will be a two part episode?

I'm sorry, I realized I didn't actually address your actual question with all my ramblings trying to figure out the timeline. Anyway, I'm guessing the first two episodes will be linked, they usually are, but I'm not sure they'll be a two-parter with a "to be continued" sort of thing. But I would expect the first three episodes to be dealing with the fallout from last season and setting up the myth arc for S12. Then episode four being them getting back into the routine. Or that's what the routine has generally been since something like S3.

I'm still hopeful all the changing of the guard will have them break out of some of their patterns in S12, but I'm not sure it's gonna be all that much of a shake up in the end. I want to believe, though...I really, really do! ;)

Edited July 19, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[Diane]

update:

Jason Fischer ‏@JasonFischer77 2m2 minutes ago

Jason Fischer Retweeted Ray Jay

Good Eyes.

Jason Fischer added,

Ray Jay @rayjay7077

Isn't it day six of filming today? Or did you have yesterday off? https://twitter.com/JasonFischer77/status/755434290792443904 …

[Diane]

Jared Padalecki ‏@jarpad 7h7 hours ago

WOW! That's a birthday & Episode 1 wrap for me. Time to celebrate with some @Laphroaig Thanks @slammtam love ya :)

[catrox14]

So Sam Smith is pretty excited and she might only be back for one episode...but I'm thinking Mary's arc is gonna go more than one or two episodes.  
 

[catrox14]

Ummm. That is not Cas' current trenchcoat. That looks like his old one. What the heck? 

 

[SueB]

Good eye.  Maybe he got a new coat. 

[SueB]

It's a flashback based on Misha saying he was 'dusting it off'. 

[pixelcat]

Back to the bunker I see... I wonder if all the cars in there are real.  I also get why Sam and Dean don't drive them around, they'd stand out more than the Impala does.  Also just realized this particular car is the same color as my nail polish.

[pixelcat]

[goldy]

Supernatural @ Comic-Con: Sam and Dean's New Vulnerability, Lucifer vs. Cas and 'Old-Fashioned Horror Stories'

http://tvline.com/2016/07/24/supernatural-season-12-preview-cw-comic-con-qa-jensen-ackles-jared-padalecki/

Edited July 24, 2016 by goldy

[catrox14]

I thought Rick Springfield as Lucifer was a fucking joke. It is a fucking joke. Could they really not land a better actor for that role? WTF? WTF?

[goldy]

This was posted on twitter:

Edited July 24, 2016 by goldy

[catrox14]

Sure. Mary is gonna wrestle Dean to the ground? Really? Just resurrected from the dead and fit as a fiddle or something. Gotta say, these spoilers are not particularly exciting to me. At all.

[pixelcat]

I was hoping Gavin was dead.  I was REALLY hoping Lucifer was dead.  Does this mean he's going to move to LA and solve crime now since Amara is no longer a threat?  And yeah... Rick Springfield, what's up with that?

[catrox14]

Um. How exactly are you avoiding a nostalgia cycle when you RESURRECT MARY? Oh my gods. I have a bad feeling about this.  And why would they AVOID nostalgia. I mean sheesh much of s11 was nostalgic with Bobby and Rufus and Young John and putting the boys back to hunting monsters and most viewers seem to enjoy s11, me not so much but not because of too much nostalgia.WTF. I'm gonna need to hear more from Dabb because that comment makes NO SENSE.

[goldy]

More from twitter:

Edited July 24, 2016 by goldy

[catrox14]

Jensen in the press room

 

[MysteryGuest]

Well, I guess my hopes that Mary's return was going to be a "one and done" have officially been crushed.  I really did not want to watch a season of the boys hunting with their mother.  It changes the whole dynamic of the story, IMO, and not in a good way.  So now she's in till the end of the series, or they kill her off again?  No thanks.

The only thing worse than knowing that Lucifer will be back, is knowing that he will be back in the form of Rick Springfield.  What are they thinking?  Last I checked, he sort of sucked as an actor, and that was about 20 years ago.

If they need to bring more people in to flesh out the stories, or to enable Jensen and Jared to take more time off, then utilize Jody and Donna in a few more episodes.  The only thing that sounds remotely good to me is the idea of getting back to basics with more MOW episodes.  Otherwise, this season sounds like a bit of a mess to me.

[goldy]

‘Supernatural’ at SDCC: Jared Padalecki teases Sam and Mary’s ‘interesting dynamic’

http://www.hypable.com/supernatural-season-12-sam-mary-jared-padalecki/

[pixelcat]

"Hey Mom, guess what.  Dad's dad was a Man of Letters, and he came through time to save us from this badass demon named Abaddon.  YOUR dad, however, was a dick.  He came back a few years ago, and promptly sold us out to the King of Hell.  Then Sam shot and killed him.  Good times."

[MysteryGuest]

Honestly, I'm sort of disappointed that they're giving so much of the story away already.  Why not leave us in suspense a bit more?  Do they normally give this much away?

[catrox14]

Another interview with Jensen about Dean's role.

 

[Diane]

Well unpopular Opinion but I lived Rick Springfield on General Hospital and he was the only good thing in that movie with Meryl Streep Ricki something. I am kind of excited (be still my 80's high school heart)

Edited July 25, 2016 by Diane

[AwesomO4000]

Heh. Well, I called the Sam getting tortured (and/or getting experimented on) thing.

Looks like Sam will talk with Mary though, so I was wrong about that prediction. I'm not so sure that's necessarily a good thing though.

[7kstar]

I'm not surprised they're bringing in a new Lucifer as Mark Pellegrino may still be on Quantico and other projects.  Rick Springfield is still acting and if they want an old timer rock star...well he does fit the mold.

I'm guessing I'm not feeling a lot of oh no about Mary.  As an actress/director it would give lots of new dynamics for the boys.  How do you treat the mother you think you know vs the woman you meet.  So yes, I do believe they have something they can use.  I still doubt she will stay because somehow they will find a way to get her gone.  Just like the problem of having Dad all the time was a problem this will become an issue.  So I can see a few in the beginning then her leaving to maybe coming back in the last few.  Will wait to see what happens. 

Even though they have given this much, I suspect there big reveal is still hidden.  Remember in Season 4 they showed Dean crawling out of the grave as a big teaser at comic con yet no one ever thought they would be showing an angel on the screen.  So far they haven't given more than I would expect.  I would expect Dean and Mary to have a conversation and I also would expect an opportunity for Sam to meet and be with his mother. 

Sam knows that Cas knows he is missing so I suspect he will hold out for some help coming in that direction.  In his world Dean is dead.  He would want to honor his brother's memory.  So if Dabb is smart he will do that.  I think they learned from some of the fans reactions in season 8.  They have been saying things like the boys working together and only that how they may react to mom hunting could be an obstacle.  You have to have some conflict in a show or it wouldn't be interesting to watch.  So still hopeful for now. 

Funny last year I was more upset, but this year can wait to see.  It isn't some big bad cliff hanger and honestly, it's kind of refreshing that it isn't.  :)  JMO

[catrox14]

One thing that bothers me about Mary's resurrection and this is just based on the very little Jensen is saying is that Mary becomes another person that is someone else that can be use to get to Dean and Sam and another person he'll have to sacrifice himself to protect. But not any mention of Dean being like "umm WTF. How are you alive and thinking this is a bad thing".  There has to be a ripple effect of some kind here if she's alive.

IMO, her resurrection really alters the basic lore of the show permanently. It's makes John's vengeance pointless(even though it always was). It makes John's fuck ups as a father pointless. It's like there is no real consequence to Mary's choices because hey look "She's alive". I really hope there is more to this than just angst for the sake of angst.  

And what of Mary's existence. John is dead. She's what 29 and Dean is almost like 10 years older than her. WHAT? Honestly, I feel like her being younger than her sons should screw with timelines in some way. LOL

I have a sneaking suspicion that Mary might be resurrected to send her off to teach Jodi, Donna, Claire and Alex hunting. Maybe setting up a Wayward Daughters spinoff or web series possibly.

One thing that I thought was really interesting from the 2nd interview with Jensen was saying something about Dean thinking about leaving the Supernatural life behind. It was just a really brief thing but I went ruhhhhrrrr?> I think I have the quote pretty correct.

"Even though Dean would love to have..do something....you know, a little bit more finalizing with whatever the supernatural world is,  it's what he knows..so he's gonna go back to doing what he knows best". 

**********************************************************************************************

Jared's interview.

Edited July 25, 2016 by catrox14

[7kstar]

Dean's always wanted the home and family but what he knows best is hunting and the family business. 

Quote

IMO, her resurrection really alters the basic lore of the show permanently. It's makes John's vengeance pointless(even though it always was). It makes John's fuck ups as a father pointless. It's like there is no real consequence to Mary's choices because hey look "She's alive". I really hope there is more to this than just angst for the sake of angst.  

Well there are real consequences.  What she never wanted to happen, happened.  Why because John knew nothing about the hunting world and she left him in the dark.  His reactions are still valid because everything he did was a reaction to her death.

Also it gives the boys a different choice.  How they will write her out, I'm not sure, but I still believe they will do it.  Just because she's alive doesn't mean all is forgiven or happy.  There will be a natural struggle to protect and a desire for something they don't know as grown men. 

Jared talked about how he will now have to come to the understanding that some of his anger was misplaced and that his mother should share the blame.  At the same time a feeling that he can't blame her because she died.

Depending on how they resolve all the issues, this could be interesting.  Too many times TV shows move away from stories or issues that were solved too easy or quickly.  I don't want angst just to have angst but it is a natural platform for a possible interesting conflict.  It also gives both actors something new after 200 eps.  Jensen will add layers, not sure if Jared can but it's a gift that has the power to become a bad thorn.

Also remember that Chuck/God told Dean basically it is his job to keep the world going.  There is a fight on his hands to find and protect his brother and at the same time his mother.

I guess the humor in all of this, is his mother doesn't really look 10 years younger than Jensen.  So the old suspend disbelief.  They've gone there just like they did with Demon Dean.  So hopefully they will do something right.  Too early to tell.  :)

Edited July 25, 2016 by 7kstar

[Boopsahoy]

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

IMO, her resurrection really alters the basic lore of the show permanently. It's makes John's vengeance pointless(even though it always was). It makes John's fuck ups as a father pointless. It's like there is no real consequence to Mary's choices because hey look "She's alive". I really hope there is more to this than just angst for the sake of angst.

I agree. Its what the whole show is based on.

[DittyDotDot]

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

One thing that bothers me about Mary's resurrection and this is just based on the very little Jensen is saying is that Mary becomes another person that is someone else that can be use to get to Dean and Sam and another person he'll have to sacrifice himself to protect. But not any mention of Dean being like "umm WTF. How are you alive and thinking this is a bad thing".  There has to be a ripple effect of some kind here if she's alive.

I haven't had a chance to watch any of the interviews, but I'm wondering if they might be trying to shift the "worry about your brother" dynamic they fall back on too often and recapture some of that mentor-dynamic they once had with Bobby. It could be an attempt to make Sam and Dean's relationship less codependent? I guess time will tell.

[Demented Daisy]

I'm just glad to see that Mary won't be baking cookies and making their beds.

[MysteryGuest]

I read somewhere yesterday that Lucifer will actually be played by multiple actors this year, as he hops from vessel to vessel.  That actually makes some sense, and they could have some fun with it by having several "recognizable" actors take on the roll throughout the season.  

My concern with the Mary storyline is that they're going to screw with the canon again, just to make it work.  I know they do this regularly, but it annoys the hell out of me.

Edited July 25, 2016 by MysteryGuest

[Demented Daisy]

1 minute ago, MysteryGuest said:

I read somewhere yesterday that Lucifer will actually be played by multiple actors this year, and he hops from vessel to vessel.

It's in the TVLine article -- the one about Rick Springfield taking the role -- and you're right, it does make sense.  The "Nick" vessel was burned away and Lucifer would be unable to take that meat suit on earth again.  I know people love Mark Pellegrino, but unless Lucifer's back in the cage, the actor shouldn't return.

[DittyDotDot]

4 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

I'm just glad to see that Mary won't be baking cookies and making their beds.

Me too! 

2 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I read somewhere yesterday that Lucifer will actually be played by multiple actors this year, and he hops from vessel to vessel.  That actually makes some sense, and they could have some fun with it by having several "recognizable" actors take on the roll throughout the season.  

My concern with the Mary storyline is that they're going to screw with the canon again, just to make it work.  I know they do this regularly, but it annoys the hell out of me.

That's kinda a relief to me. I really wish they'd just leave Lucifer alone at this point, but at least they're not bringing him back as a dead meat suit again. Plus, I always liked the demons jumping bodies in the early days. Got us some interesting guest stars and some interesting nuances to the characters at times. 

It's funny, I'm feeling reassured this morning that they're really taking pains to not mess up what came before anymore. Maybe I'll feel differently when I have a chance to actually watch all this stuff later this week?

[catrox14]

Nerd HQ panels. They are not super spoilery but some minor spoilers so I'm putting here too. This cast is too funny. They are all naughty dorks. Both are NSFW for language. 

Edited July 25, 2016 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

I was kinda curious about this Comic Con because I wanted to see if they`d surprise me in any way or go the totally expected route. Well, it was the second option. I expected something like that gimmick in Seinfeld when they pitched a "show about nothing" to the network. Now I`m used to this for Dean after Comic Cons but this year, it was even steven. Noone has anything whatsoever of interest to tell. I`m not even angry or disappointed or something about it, just more: too bad.

Mary being an awkward out-of-time presence in their lives is the dynamic I would have chosen last because it is the weirdest and the one yielding the littlest potential for story and character work. So no surprise they zero-ed in on it. Back in Season 6 when it was revealed that bringing back Mary was Grandpa Campbell`s master plan, all I could think of was how fucking awkward and weird that would be. At least he had the excuse of being an awkward resurrection himself.

They are strangers to each other and as bad as it may have been, at least the idolized memory/idea of children could at least be some comfort. Now that has gone to crap, for a relationship that can simply never truly be what they might want from it. Maybe they could become friends but given the circumstances, resurrected Mary can never truly be their mother in the way John, good or ill, was their father. She didn`t see them grow up.

The brothers could have made other friends but quite frankly, they will lose what little of their mother they have right now. Ironically, by bringing her back. Amara meant well. She was thinking of this picture with Mary and little Dean. But by doing that she has destroyed the value of it. This picture will no longer mean what it did. 

I`m not hot on Mary wrestling Dean down but (not having seen the clip of course), I assume Dean would not truly fight her either way. Even on top of being stunned. That gives her the edge anyway if he doesn`t move a muscle to really defend himself.  

The MOL torturing Sam? Um, why? Surely not for information. The only other reason for torture is outright sadism so that storyline is off to a great start.  Probably it will go in the direction of the horrible Red Meat. Blergh. And Dean`s role in it will be the usual fare which at this point is simplistic, stale and thouroughly unenjoyable to me. 

Why is Lucifer still not dead? Do we need another semi-Crowley, half goofy relief, half scary when it suits them? Apparently, the answer is yes. 

Oh well, at least Dean isn`t left out this year, noone has a story. I guess that`s progress. Kinda.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Aeryn13

[catrox14]

Jared said in one interview that apparently Sam's feet are abused or that Jared was barefoot throughout whatever this torture shit is and it messed up his feet. Come on, show. Could we not?

I

[MysteryGuest]

So these anti-violence, cerebral MOL's get their kink on by torturing hunters?  This is the first I'm hearing this and I'm sorry...WTF?  I mean what possible reason would they have for torturing Sam?  It makes absolutely no sense. At this point I'm going to tell myself that the cast was just having a good laugh at our expense, and none of these so-called spoilers are true.  Please let that be the case.

[DittyDotDot]

38 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

So these anti-violence, cerebral MOL's get their kink on by torturing hunters?  This is the first I'm hearing this and I'm sorry...WTF?  I mean what possible reason would they have for torturing Sam?  It makes absolutely no sense. At this point I'm going to tell myself that the cast was just having a good laugh at our expense, and none of these so-called spoilers are true.  Please let that be the case.

Yeah, as I've said all along, the Mary stuff doesn't rankle as much as the MoL stuff. Just doesn't make any sense if they only "stick to their studies" they would be all the sudden acting like a bunch of hunters. Seems like they would simply lock the boys up rather than torture them...even if they had a good reason. I guess they gotta get their requisite amount of unnecessary torture in to show they're a gritty show.?

Edited July 25, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[pixelcat]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Jared said in one interview that apparently Sam's feet are abused or that Jared was barefoot throughout whatever this torture shit is and it messed up his feet. Come on, show. Could we not?

I

I really don't understand WHY.  MoL already know what the Winchesters have done.  Obviously they can already get into the bunker and loot whatever they want.  Sam thinks Dean is dead, torturing him asking "Where's Dean?" isn't going to change his tune.  What is the point of this?  Punishment for not coloring inside the lines?

[catrox14]

45 minutes ago, pixelcat said:

I really don't understand WHY.  MoL already know what the Winchesters have done.  Obviously they can already get into the bunker and loot whatever they want.  Sam thinks Dean is dead, torturing him asking "Where's Dean?" isn't going to change his tune.  What is the point of this?  Punishment for not coloring inside the lines?

Right? It's  stupid. Like at least Cole had a very specific reason for going after Sam because he was trying to get to Dean because of something that he saw Dean do when he was kid. He didn't know that his dad was a monster but that was at least a logical option. There is ZERO logic here.

Unless there is some other motive for them torturing Sam.

I'll tell you one thing for sure. This better not end up being Lady McGoFuckHerself torturing Sam because she wants to get to Dean because Dean is that kid's father. I will absolutely lose my shit but I can't shake the feeling there is a very specific reason they showed that kid not just because 'Oh look it's a working WoL" that I certainly don't give two fucks about.  Now the swerve could be that it's Sam's kid which LOLOL but fuck that too.  I don't want her related or tied to the Winchesters or the Campbells in any way, shape or form other than working for same organization.

 

IMO, this confirms the MoL as the EVMoL. There is no reason for them to torture Sam.

[MysteryGuest]

If the child were Sam's, I'd assume he would have recognized her.  So that leaves Dean.  But still, he told her Dean was dead, and he honestly believes that, so again, why torture?  It's just stupid.

We ended the season with two cliff hangers...is Mary really back, and is Sam dead.  And week one of their return to shooing, they've given away the ending to both spoilers.  Why would they do that?

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, MysteryGuest said:

So these anti-violence, cerebral MOL's get their kink on by torturing hunters?  This is the first I'm hearing this and I'm sorry...WTF?  I mean what possible reason would they have for torturing Sam?  It makes absolutely no sense.

My speculation after the finale was that the MoL were maybe going to "experiment" on Sam - with my meaning being torture - in order to see if this would somehow "wake up" his latent powers. Maybe it does, and this is where that strange talk about Sam's powers maybe not being gone came from. However, if they knew anything really, they would know that Sam's only "powers" had to do with visions concerning other "special kids" and there aren't supposed to be any more of those. Unless they try to add demon blood - which would not only be stupid but potentially reckless.... and again fairly specific in terms of powers (exorcising/killing demons). Unless the torturing somehow does something to expand on that - which again kinda reckless and now potentially dangerous.

If so that would serve the MoL right for messing with stuff they shouldn't in the name of "study" or whatever they want to try to call it. My Wild Ass Guess is that they wanted Dean for pretty much a similar reason... not so much "crimes against humanity" as "I wonder if we could make Dean turn into a demon again / access any powers / find out if there are any lingering effects from the Mark of Cain." You know, for science. *snort*

[catrox14]

Here is the interview with Jared talking about Sam being tortured and that he has cuts and bruises on his feet. :(