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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
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Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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catrox14

catrox14

 

Better run through the jungle,

Better run through the jungle,

Better run through the jungle,

Woa, Don't look back to see.

 

Hmmm, this is an interesting point. 

 

Cas referred to Lot's wife:

 

Cean: Ground zero is about a mile down that way.

Cas: That explains it. You’re suffering from smiting sickness.

Dean [in disbelief]: That... that’s a thing?

Cas: Yeah. The angels... what they did... it released a tremendous amount of energy and there’s fallout, so this whole area is poisoned.

Dean: You can heal me right?

Cas: No, I can’t and the closer you get to the blast site the worse your sickness will become.

Dean: How worse?

Cas: The last time there was a smiting of this magnitude, Lot’s wife turned to salt.

Dean [looking towards the site]: Awesome.

Cas: Alright Dean, you need to go back.

Dean: Ah, no. [He struggles to stand up]. No. No, we gotta... we gotta go see if it worked... see if Amara is alive or dead.

Cas: We don’t. The fallout doesn’t affect angels. I’ll go in alone.

Dean looks at Cas, his stomach churns and he looks like he is about to vomit again.

Dean: Okay, ya, it’s probably better that way. I’ll take a drive and go check on Sam.

Cas: Right. Good.

Dean: Hey Cas? If it did work and she is dead, bring her body out.

Cas: And if she’s not?

Dean: Run.

From wikipedia ( yeah yeah it was a quick ready reference for thinky thoughts.

 

In Judaism, one common view of Lot's wife turning to salt was as punishment for disobeying the angels' warning. By looking back at the "evil cities" she betrayed her secret longing for that way of life. She was deemed unworthy to be saved and thus turned to a pillar of salt.[8]

 

Another accepted view in the Jewish exegesis of Genesis 19:26, is that when Lot's wife looked back, she turned to a pillar of salt upon the sight of God who was descending down to rain destruction upon Sodom and Gomorrah.[4]

 

A Jewish legend gives one reason for Lot's wife looking back, and that was to check if her daughters, who were married to men of Sodom, were coming or not. Instead, she saw God descending in order to rain fire and brimstone upon Sodom and Gomorrah. Thus, the sight of God turned her into a pillar of salt.[4]

Another Jewish legend says that because Lot's wife sinned with salt, she was punished with salt. On the night the two angels visited Lot, he requested that his wife prepare a feast for them. Not having any salt, Lot's wife asked her neighbors for salt, which alerted them to the presence of their guests, resulting in the mob action that endangered Lot's family.[4]

 

So if Dean is still suffering from the smiting sickness (and is not seahorse!Dean tm me the idjit, sorry I couldn't resist), is Dean essentially Lot's wife here because he sort of looked back by driving back to the site to find Amara and now he's sick?  Amara was woozy also.  

 

A few questions:

 

Why did he start driving back that way in the first place. I know he was going to find her but why would he do that when he just needed to have Cas check and he was worried about Sam?  Was Amara compelling him to save her?

 

Is he sick because of the smiting sickness or because he's connected to her and she's actually wounded?

 

I know Jensen said they aren't connected like that but he's also a lying liar that trolls us a lot. 

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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catrox14

catrox14

That's it.

 

I'm fully on board something is really wrong with Dean. 

 

He didn't say Unattached Drifters Christmas it's his high holy day FFS. Come on SHOW! Maybe he will in the episode but I'm not convinced.  

 

Also, I HATE THAT MUSIC CUE so much. It's attached to stupid slapstick scenes like Dean being a slob when he eats.  And seriously, I don't care how hungover Dean is, he's not gonna let his kitchen be gross. 

 

I'm also calling that the hickey is not a hickey and is related to the smiting sickness or whatever. 

 

I'm also concerned we are going to get a scene with Dean having sexy times with a woman but he's hallucinating Amara's face or something..you know because of being attached. 

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

 

Also, I HATE THAT MUSIC CUE so much. It's attached to stupid slapstick scenes like Dean being a slob when he eats.

 

These particular writers pretty much only give you a one-dimensional comic relief version of Dean. Uncouth, horndoggy and dumb. It`s basically their style. At least, unlike the Dreadful Duo, they are only given standalones fillers and not mytharc eps. The best you can hope for is mildly offensive with their episodes.   

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catrox14

catrox14

 

I don't think there is anything to him not calling it Unattached Drifters Christmas, I don't think he did in season 5 and that year didn't even want to celebrate it.

 

IIRC Sam was the one that was bugging Dean about it in My Bloody Valentine: I'm paraphraing but I think it was something like 

 

"It's Valentine's day. Your favorite holiday...what did you always call it? Unattached drifter Christmas?' To me that more than implies Dean has always called it Unattached Drifter Christmas.  Sam was worried because Dean didn't care about it because impending doom reasons. 

 

So, yeah, I was being facetious about the Unattached Drifter Christmas lack of reference, but I AM not being facetious about thinking something is very wrong with Dean. 

 

I'll eat my non-existent SPN hat if that turns out to not be the case.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Stills from The Vessel

 

http://www.thetvaddict.com/2016/02/10/supernatural-1114-photos-s11e14-the-vessel/

 

Oh Dear Gods....sailor!Dean.../swoon

 

 

In the lengthy promo from SPN staffers, Sam is raising his gun to Cas, so I'm guessing Casifer makes a mistake and reveals himself and Sam figures it out.

 

Also, WTF is Cas cutting up and why is there a brain on that table....?

Edited by catrox14
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SueB

SueB

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I personally think the Carver montage songs are clues.

S8: Locomotive Breath. My take: song theme is betrayal. Fits Dean's initial POV

S9: Who Do You Love? My take: sing theme is evident in title. Fits Dean's extreme action in opener

S10: Heartbreaker. My take: How Sam may have seen what Dean had become

S11: as you've indicated, fits Lucifer out off the box.

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MysteryGuest

MysteryGuest

I'm not convinced that there's some underlying issue with Dean, except for his connection to Amara that we are already aware of.  I think the smiting sickness was just that, lame as it was.  They needed to get Cas to go to Amara, and Dean wouldn't have stayed away unless there was some reason why he couldn't go.  I simply don't have the confidence in the SPN writers to be able to carry off something as subtle as what is being suggested.  

 

As far as I'm concerned, it's his connection to Amara that's driving all of this.  It makes him vulnerable because he's extremely worried about it.  He's hiding it from Sam, he doesn't even really understand it himself, but he knows there's something going on.  He's already tried to kill her twice and failed, and he doesn't have confidence in himself to be able to do it when the time comes.  I think he's seriously freaking out on the inside.  I guess we'll find out...eventually.

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catrox14

catrox14

IMO they could have separated Dean and Cas in any other way without Dean being subjected to smiting sickness.  It reminds me of Dean puking up blood in Do You Believe in Miracles which set up Dean being so controlled by the Mark that it was killing him if he didn't kill. 

 

Why would Dean be tired from digging a grave when he's been shown to be pretty fit until now? He's only 37.

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MysteryGuest

MysteryGuest

I agree that the grave digging scene was strange, and even commented back then that they were making these guys out to be ancient when they're only in their 30's.  It could be that he's just "off" all the time because he's preoccupied with his connection to Amara.  I imagine he thinks and worries about it 24/7.  But anything is possible, I suppose.  

 

They haven't done squat with the Darkness storyline in weeks, and I can only assume that it's because they don't know what to do with it.  The scenes between Dean and Amara have been few and far between and just end up raising more questions.  

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smree

smree

Loved the promo for next week.  Dean ACTUALLY saying he's from the future on a mission. Crowley forced to wear garish clothes and a leash. Cosplay Dean.

 

All I could think watching that was poor Mark Sheppard. I'd say he got some ribbing filming that scene :)

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

There has been a lot of talk this season about the Winchesters making some unsavory alliances, but... Castiel has been possessed by Lucifer.  Crowley is in a cell in Hell.  Rowena's dead.  Who's left except Lucifer himself?  And, honestly, Sam and Dean have done some borderline things in their attempts to save the world, but where do they draw the line?  Unless Amara is still eating souls off-screen, she hasn't exactly been the horror they've made her out to be.  Hardly surprising, I suppose, because they did the same thing with Abbadon.

 

Anyway, they're running out of people (I use for want of a better term) to ally with.  By the season finale, I expect Lucifer will be back in the cage and Crowley will be King of Hell again, but how boring will that be?  Don't get me wrong, I want Lucifer in the cage (I never wanted them to mess with the cage in the first place), but I can't think of any scenario where it's anything but status quo.  Meaning, Sam and Dean are alive, Crowley is the King of Hell, and Castiel is a renegade angel.  Oh, and whatever they do to lock away the Darkness will have unexpected, world-threatening consequences.

 

Is there any way to shake things up?  They're running out of characters for "shocking" deaths....

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ahrtee

ahrtee

Well (and pleasepleaseplease "no"):

 

For the season finale, they could have Crowley dead and Lucifer taking his "rightful place" as King of Hell again.  After all, how else do you get a Big Bad to top God's Sister?  Then all the angels could unite (with Cas at their head) to fight against him.

 

DO. NOT. WANT.

 

(As a thought  for that...what happened to Death's ring when he "died"?  The boys should still have the other three...)

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SueB

SueB

  • Author

I want Crowley on top again.  Lucifer is just too much for long term actual screen presence.  It dilutes him IMO.


I want Crowley on top again.  Lucifer is just too much for long term actual screen presence.  It dilutes him IMO.

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Omegamom

Omegamom

In the end:

Dean and Amara merge in some special CGI vortex, and become the new Death.

Sam, Cas, and Lucifer merge (also with CGI effects), and become the new God.

The finale shows Chuck and old Death relaxing on lounge chairs on a sandy beach somewhere, drinking floofy tropical drinks.

Jared goes off to do his reunion with the Gilmore Girls crew.

Jensen becomes a new Marvel hero.

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catrox14

catrox14

 

Jensen becomes a new Marvel hero.

 

Or a DC Hero...Villain whatever. I'm not picky. 

 

I also can totally see Jensen as the next Deadpool and apparently he loves the character now too...so maybe when Ryan Reynolds gives it up, Jensen can go for it.

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

Or a DC Hero...Villain whatever. I'm not picky. 

 

I also can totally see Jensen as the next Deadpool and apparently he loves the character now too...so maybe when Ryan Reynolds gives it up, Jensen can go for it.

 

Ryan Reynolds is not giving up Deadpool... ever.  He said in a recent interview that he wants to play him for the rest of his life.  Unless the movie completely bombs (HA!), they're not going to recast the part, either.

 

Besides, do you really want to cover up Jensen's pretty face with all those scars and a mask?  ;-)

 

 

In the end:

Dean and Amara merge in some special CGI vortex, and become the new Death.

Sam, Cas, and Lucifer merge (also with CGI effects), and become the new God.

The finale shows Chuck and old Death relaxing on lounge chairs on a sandy beach somewhere, drinking floofy tropical drinks.

 

The last bit would be awesome.  The other bits?  Ugh, no offense, but no.  Please, Chuck, no.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

With the recent Gilmore Girls announcement, I`m pretty sure this explains the shooting out of order. So, they did ep 18 before ep 17. Eps 18 have in the last few years traditionally been mytharc eps. Since, I think, Sam just got deemed the main hero of the Amara storyline since Dean helpfully declared himself too weak - and how nice it would have been to meet this with "no, I still believe you can do it" or "we can do it together" instead of "`kay, I got it covered, you can be on the bench" - he has to be in a mytharc ep.

 

But 17 is most likely filler so no big deal if one misses that. Maybe ep 19 as well depending on how long JP shoots for Gilmore Girls. I`m pretty sure he will be back for the final three episodes where the mytharc starts up again and especially to fill the hero`s role in the Finale. Dean can be the temp who does the work noone notices and leave when it comes to do the big jobs. 

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catrox14

catrox14

 

Ryan Reynolds is not giving up Deadpool... ever.  He said in a recent interview that he wants to play him for the rest of his life.  Unless the movie completely bombs (HA!), they're not going to recast the part, either.

 

Besides, do you really want to cover up Jensen's pretty face with all those scars and a mask?  ;-)

 

This movie is going to be massive. No bomb there.  Well good for Ryan Reynolds. 

 

I know you are being facetious but FTR I don't like Jensen just because he's gorgeous. He's a godsdamn amazing actor and I don't care if his face was altered for a role.  Besides I've already experienced hearing only Jensen's voice in the Red Hood animated film. And he was GREAT.

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

(edited)

 Since, I think, Sam just got deemed the main hero of the Amara storyline since Dean helpfully declared himself too weak - and how nice it would have been to meet this with "no, I still believe you can do it" or "we can do it together" instead of "`kay, I got it covered, you can be on the bench" - he has to be in a mytharc ep.

 

Just my opinion here...

 

Unless I interpreted it incorrectly, that look on Sam's face at the end of the episode was less "kay, I've got it covered" and more "oh shit, I can't do this by myself. What the hell am I going to do now?" with some "crap, this is all my fault that Dean is in this thing with Amara against his will" thrown in.

 

I'm also not sure how supportive a "No Dean, you can do it" might've sounded when Dean just poured out his feelings. It might've sounded to Dean like Sam was just dismissing everything he just said and expected him to just "man up and get over it" or giving him platitudes that he didn't really mean. A "we can do it together" might've been better, but I don't think Sam even thinks that he (Sam) can do that right now. I think he feels like crap, guilty, and based on his expression - Sam looked like he was about to cry to me - completely hit upside of the head. He wants to for once to take some of this burden off of Dean (which he (Sam) caused), but he isn't at all ready or thinking he can do it.

 

Over in the episode thread, I compared it to the Dean at the end of "My Bloody Valentine" scene. Sam's getting desperate, I think, and probably going to do something impulsive in the near future.

 

Edited to add:

 

I'm going to expand on my ideas over in the "Love Hurts" episode thread on how this season is mirroring season 5 and how I think it does dynamic-wise. I don't know if this is how it's going to happen, but so far here are the parallels I'm seeing and how I think they might play out.

 

How Season 5 = Season 11:

 

Sam/Lucifer = Dean/Amara: The connection between them was/will be the potential downfall of the main baddie.

 

Dean/Zachariah (Michael) = Sam/Lucifer: Temptation by the "false prophet" who has a supposed answer for defeating the baddie. Hopefully this means that Sam will eventually be talked out of anything Lucifer tries to convince him of (by Dean if the parallel holds) and defeats Lucifer like Dean defeated Zach.

 

Adam = Castiel: Castiel is the substitute meatsuit caught up in mess, right down to Castiel being convinced he was doing the right thing just like Adam was at first. And all of them being locked somewhere - room vs cage - but Sam and Dean escaping while Adam/Castiel became the substitute vessel for the "false prophet"/solution. If the parallel continues, this might mean that Castiel somehow gets sacrificed in whatever needs to be done in the end to defeat Amara. It would be even more tragic if Dean must do the sacrificing.

 

That's all I've got so far, but there may be more later.

Edited by AwesomO4000
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MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND

MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND

With the recent Gilmore Girls announcement, I`m pretty sure this explains the shooting out of order. So, they did ep 18 before ep 17. Eps 18 have in the last few years traditionally been mytharc eps. Since, I think, Sam just got deemed the main hero of the Amara storyline since Dean helpfully declared himself too weak - and how nice it would have been to meet this with "no, I still believe you can do it" or "we can do it together" instead of "`kay, I got it covered, you can be on the bench" - he has to be in a mytharc ep.

 

But 17 is most likely filler so no big deal if one misses that. Maybe ep 19 as well depending on how long JP shoots for Gilmore Girls. I`m pretty sure he will be back for the final three episodes where the mytharc starts up again and especially to fill the hero`s role in the Finale. Dean can be the temp who does the work noone notices and leave when it comes to do the big jobs. 

I firmly believe in the end Dean is going to have to come through because he's the only one she doesn't want to kill.

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catrox14

catrox14

 

I firmly believe in the end Dean is going to have to come through because he's the only one she doesn't want to kill.

 

Do we know that for sure? 

 

I mean she wants him to be one with her, but why?  She has they will always help each other but that doesn't mean she couldn't lose control and kill him or if she finally gets exasperated because she doesn't get what she wants with killing him anyway.

 

The thing we need to understand is WHY is she REALLY so interested in Dean

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

I believe we will be getting the answer to that question as soon as the writers make something up. If they haven`t written the script for episode 23 yet, this point probably has not yet been reached. Or they will simply drop it and not explain it at all. But right now, I firmly believe there is no explanation.

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Wynne88

Wynne88

I think Dean will find a way to overcome Amara in order to save Sam.  I have serious doubts that they would lay out such a direct path to the finale by having Dean say he can't fight Amara, and then having that be true.  

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SueB

SueB

  • Author

I think Dean will find a way to overcome Amara in order to save Sam.  I have serious doubts that they would lay out such a direct path to the finale by having Dean say he can't fight Amara, and then having that be true.  

 

Precisely. 

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catrox14

catrox14

I think Dean will find a way to overcome Amara in order to save Sam.  I have serious doubts that they would lay out such a direct path to the finale by having Dean say he can't fight Amara, and then having that be true.  

 

Why not? They did it last season.  They had Dean being set up to have to sacrifice himself and Sam to save the planet from himself. He couldn't save himself in the end because Sam and Rowena saved Dean from the Mark. If they go with Sam being the one that kind of escalated Dean being in this predicament in the first place, this would be Sam's opportunity to set that right.

 

So yeah I don't think it's that cut and dried.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

I'm guessing Dean will get the chance to throw himself in a poorly CGI'd plot hole by the end of the season, too. I've gotten a flipped S5 vibe most of this season. Same went for S10/S4.

 

In S4, Sam thought he was sacrificing himself to save the planet with the demon blood and killing Lilith--much like Dean and Death--but instead released Lucifer unintentionally. In the end, God saved Sam from his demon blood addiction much like that spell saved Dean from the Mark.

 

In S5, Sam was suddenly sober and dried out, but also unsure of himself and whether they could stop Lucifer until almost the end of the season. For the first part of the season, Sam is saying he's not sure he can do it much like Dean said in here in Love Hurts. Ironically, it's the Valentine's Day episode in S5 (My Bloody Valentine) where Sam succumbs to the demon blood drinking again and is kinda at his lowest in terms of hope and faith. Add on how Amara/Dean has totally been played like Lucifer/Sam was played in S5--Amara's been courting Dean very similar to how Lucifer courted Sam in S4, complete with a "we will be one comment" in the mid-season finale just as Lucifer told Sam he would say "yes" in Abandon All Hope. 

 

So, I expect there to be a few episodes where we see Dean slowly gaining faith in himself until at some point he comes up with a monumentally stupid plan involving Amara and Dean--that will probably not go according to plan--and Dean will overcome Amara in some way to get the big win at the end.

 

I'm also gonna go out on a limb and say Lucifer will not be the answer and will be put back in his box or killed by episode 20. Zachariah and the angels are the McGuffin/alternative of S5 and I've recently decided that's the role Lucifer will play in S11.

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MysteryGuest

MysteryGuest

Other than her constant soul sucking, has Amara really been shown to be all that evil?  I get that she'd eventually suck up all the souls on the planet and that's bad, but her intent doesn't seem evil.  She doesn't think she's doing a bad thing.  They either need to ramp up that aspect of her personality, or this really is just a sibling spat playing out on an epic scale.  There has to be more to this, right?  I mean from my perspective, the real evil out there is Lucifer.  So which one is the real Big Bad this season?  My guess is they're still figuring that out, which is sort of depressing.  I really would love some better writing on this show, but I know that's not going to happen.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

 

Other than her constant soul sucking, has Amara really been shown to be all that evil?

 

No. But in all fairness to her the other snorepocalypses also didn`t show a lot or urgency. I mean the set-up for Lucifer was much, much more scary than when he was around. Abaddon didn`t wreak apocalyptic carnage. Neither did Godstiel. Neither did the Monster of all Monsters. Neither did the fallen angels. Or Metatron. Or Lilith. They all had their little massacres here and there but that was about it. 

 

You could say Cain was on his way to slaughtering half the population but that was a nebulous maybe. And the Leviathans wanted to kill off all the thin people. Which falls in the same "sounds scary for a possible future" scenario.

 

Thing is, the show doesn`t have the budget to pull off apocalyptic threats and show a dystopian wrecked world. Especially not if they insist on doing "we can ignore the bad guy for a string of random filler" episodes. But they love to set-up apocalyptic threats these days. It`s all "ZOMG, the world as we know it will end when....  rises". Then .... rises and the world as we know it barely gets a scratch. It`s all a lot of tell and no show. Which undermines the urgency.

 

You would need very, very clever writing to keep your established threat level intact and not show it in big bombastic ways. Which, the chances are higher someone hands them 30 million bucks per episode to pull off the bombastic scenes then the current writers being capable of pulling it off without that.  

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MysteryGuest

MysteryGuest

(edited)

Well, I for one would have been more than happy with a less "world ending" big bad this year.  I was hoping for it, actually.  I mean just how often can the end of the world be imminent before it becomes ridiculous?  And considering their budget, why not write stories within their means?  If they would focus more attention on creating really scary MOTW's, that could be really fun.  It's never going to happen, but I'd have enjoyed it.

Edited by MysteryGuest
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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

I've been wanting something like that for years.  Rowena leading the witches against demons; Bobby leading human souls against the angels in Heaven; anything that wasn't the fault of the Winchesters (or at least a result of their actions). 

 

They're caught in their own trap, IMO.  I think the show would be better if they went back to a "war" scenario.  Rival monsters, demons, angels, witches, whatever.  Having one Big Bad really limits the scope of what they can do.  But having humans caught between warring factions, well, that's right in the Winchesters' "saving people, hunting things" wheelhouse.

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

In S4, Sam thought he was sacrificing himself to save the planet with the demon blood and killing Lilith--much like Dean and Death--but instead released Lucifer unintentionally. In the end, God saved Sam from his demon blood addiction much like that spell saved Dean from the Mark.

 

Oh, good point. I didn't think of this in my comparison above.

 

In S5, Sam was suddenly sober and dried out, but also unsure of himself and whether they could stop Lucifer until almost the end of the season. For the first part of the season, Sam is saying he's not sure he can do it much like Dean said in here in Love Hurts. Ironically, it's the Valentine's Day episode in S5 (My Bloody Valentine) where Sam succumbs to the demon blood drinking again and is kinda at his lowest in terms of hope and faith. Add on how Amara/Dean has totally been played like Lucifer/Sam was played in S5--Amara's been courting Dean very similar to how Lucifer courted Sam in S4, complete with a "we will be one comment" in the mid-season finale just as Lucifer told Sam he would say "yes" in Abandon All Hope.

 

So, I expect there to be a few episodes where we see Dean slowly gaining faith in himself until at some point he comes up with a monumentally stupid plan involving Amara and Dean--that will probably not go according to plan--and Dean will overcome Amara in some way to get the big win at the end.

 

I mostly agree. I think the main difference is that I think Sam gained some confidence from what happened in that Valentine's episode, because he ultimately resisted and said "No" to Famine's offer of as much demon blood as he wanted, whereas Dean isn't there yet at the end of this episode. But if my above hunch about Sam's final look = Dean's plea to heaven for help at the end of "My Bloody Valentine" from the episode thread holds, then Sam will go on the say "yes" to Zachariah/Lucifer arc that Dean went on in season 5, and Dean will gain his confidence as Sam is losing his.

 

I'm just not sure what the catalyst will be for Dean here to gain confidence like Sam did from his ability to refuse Famine. Maybe it will be his need to save/stop Sam that gets Dean going? I'm not sure, maybe something that happens in his trip in the past will be the catalyst to put him on that road.

 

I'm also gonna go out on a limb and say Lucifer will not be the answer and will be put back in his box or killed by episode 20. Zachariah and the angels are the McGuffin/alternative of S5 and I've recently decided that's the role Lucifer will play in S11.

 

I agree, and hopefully Sam will be the one to stop him like Dean stopped Zach in season 5.

 

Unfortunately if these parallels hold, things may not look good for Castiel (who in my above season 5 / season 11 comparison I gave the Adam role).

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enaiowen

enaiowen

Speaking of Rowena, this may or not be relevant to Supernatural, but there is a con here in Houston this weekend and Ruth Connell is one of the guests. The Convention website says that she has had to reschedule her appearance from Fri. Sat. To Sat. Sun. "due to filming". Of course it doesn't say what she's filming and it's likely something else entirely but I thought I'd share anyway.

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Diane

Diane

Am I right in assuming from Jared's tweets it seems like he has been in Austin since right before the super bowl. Which would mean that the episode they are filming is Sam light right?

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Diane

Diane

He posted a video on FB today in which he said they were filming until like 2 am this morning and flew to Austin. But he's filming GG next week so that will be Sam-lgithe

Thank you I had not had a chance to watch it yet.

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SueB

SueB

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Which possibly explains Sam's hair being a little shorter. Perhaps shorter hair is what they wanted for GG Dean. If he's doing all his filming in a week, I'd say it's a safe bet we are not getting much more than a cameo.

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SueB

SueB

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Watching the Keep Grinding vid one more time, it looks like we have two more episodes with of material. The Vessle and the wrestler thing. Since The clip with Amara showed up in Love Hurrs, that lessons the probability of her showing up in the vessel IMO.

And we still have them knowing Cas is possed and the Devil is on the loose (based on Dean voiceover). I'm still betting that becomes clear in The Vessel. But them taking off to go see a wrestling match for fun seems incongruous. I have to wonder if there is a time hop with nothing happening. Even in Love hurts Dean was like 'and if it's not about Amara how is this us?' A voluntary break implies no new leads at all. For some period of time is my guess.

Also, I think Crowley's speech is in the Vessel because I doubt he's in the wrestler ep.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I really wonder what Jensen considers things not happening to either brother means. He said that at this weekends con and he's been saying it all along that the neither one is 'burdened' by something that the other one has to fix but isn't Amara basically having control over Dean the very definition of something happening TO HIM? And him telling Sam that he can't kill her is leaving it with Sam that Sam will have to kill her basically in order to save Dean?

 

At the Houston con this weekend, Jared showed a cut on his finger that looks a bit like the Mark of Cain and said it was Jared's Mark of CAin. Jensen took a picture of it  and then posted on Instagram with the caption "SAMs Mark of Cain" and so much more" (also check out the video of those antics, dirty boys are dirty and hilarious. It did look like a dick pic from a distance LOL)

 

I'm being mostly facetious but dammit if there isn't a little part of me that wonders if Jensen didn't take advantage of this and is lowkey spoiling Sam actually taking on the Mark of Cain.

 

If this season keeps a parallel with s4/s5, and Dean has removed himself from the playing field because he doesn't believe he has the wherewithall to kill Amara, this mean Sam is the 'stronger" one again.   I would not be the least bit surprised for Sam to be told by Casifer that he'll need to take on the Mark of Cain and can kill Amara with that and the First Blade.

Edited by catrox14
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Omegamom

Omegamom

And then we can have Sammy going dark side...which would be fun, cuz I like dark!Sam, Buuut....

I think it's more likely that they'll somehow either persuade or trick Lucifer into taking it back, and imprison Amara with him in the Cage at the end of the season. Of course, that's all neat and tidy, with no OMG here's the Big Bad for next season...

Hmmm.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

And then we can have Sammy going dark side...which would be fun, cuz I like dark!Sam, Buuut....

I think it's more likely that they'll somehow either persuade or trick Lucifer into taking it back, and imprison Amara with him in the Cage at the end of the season. Of course, that's all neat and tidy, with no OMG here's the Big Bad for next season...

Hmmm.

 

It seems like a bad idea to get Lucifer to take the Mark again. And wouldn't that make him a hero and redeemed?? I mean surely they wouldn't do that... oh gods....wait, it's Carver. I can totally see that. 

Edited by catrox14
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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

He said that at this weekends con and he's been saying it all along that the neither one is 'burdened' by something that the other one has to fix but isn't Amara basically having control over Dean the very definition of something happening TO HIM?

 

In all fairness, after the premier this was a backburnered storyline.  Other than that she's God's sister we know nothing about Amara, which Im sure the writers did just because it sounded cool.  What did Amara do that was so terrible God felt the need to lock her away? What's her end game?  Why is she drawn to Dean? What is the nature of her bond with Dean?  (I doubt the writers even know).  Why didnt she take Dean's soul?  Was it that she couldn't or wouldn't? According to Carver, they are perfectly content to let audience make up their on mind.  In Carver speak- we never discussed and have no idea.

 

The so-called bond with Amara doesn't exist unless they are three feet from each other,  Then its little more than a staring contest. Amara lost this confrontation twice already.   It's hard to buy that this connection that strong when we don't see it really effecting Dean's day to day life and we don't see it unless its a mytharc ep.  Then its little more than a literal blink and you'll miss it.  I figure now that this story belongs to Sam, it might start getting some attention but Dean's connection to the darkness will most likely end up joining the ever growing lost potential Dean storylines.  

 

And him telling Sam that he can't kill her is leaving it with Sam that Sam will have to kill her basically in order to save Dean?

 

 

I guess they were hoping if they wrapped things in a shiny BM the audience wouldn't notice that Dean was most likely written out of his own storyline and that it would make the audience forget that in his last two confrontations with Amara Dean managed to break her hold.   This is Trial and Error all over again.   

 

I'm being mostly facetious but dammit if there isn't a little part of me that wonders if Jensen didn't take advantage of this and is lowkey spoiling Sam actually taking on the Mark of Cain.

 

 

 

I've been predicting that Sam will end up taking Amara into The Empty ever since Billy made a point of mentioning it in episode 2.  It was said that God tricked Amara and locked her up in the Mark of Cain.   My theory is that the Hand of God that Dean goes looking for in the next episode is some kind of knife or brand that God used to create the mark on Lucifer in the first place.  dean will hand the knife to Sam to use when the time comes because the show sent a clear message that Dean is too weak to over come Amara.  (but don't forget to ignore he did twice already).

 

 

If this season keeps a parallel with s4/s5, and Dean has removed himself from the playing field because he doesn't believe he has the wherewithall to kill Amara, this mean Sam is the 'stronger" one again.   I would not be the least bit surprised for Sam to be told by Casifer that he'll need to take on the Mark of Cain and can kill Amara with that and the First Blade.

 

 

He may not use the first blade, but I suspect that the finale is going to be a repeat of Swan Song (I wouldn't even put it past the writers to just name it Swan Song two).  Sam will say yes to Lucifer, put the Mark on his skin, trick Amara and then go into the empty with both of them. 

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