Spoilers With Speculation

[catrox14]

I don't thin the frantic looking for Dean is necessarily a fanfic rewrite of S8. IfCarver is trying to fix Sam and Dean then he would surely have Sam actually look for Dean this time especially if the last time he saw him was dead on the bed. 

[7kstar]

Sam is in a different place this season.  He told Dean he lied about not trying to save his life, that he would find a spell or something.  They had bonded in a positive way and most likely he'll be upset that Dean once again tried to protect him and keep him safe, but I think he finally gets this is Dean.

 

His line lets just do this before we find something else to fight about, is Sam accepting I think that they both have different values and viewpoints.  He tried once again at the end of Season 7 to have his normal life and leave it all behind but it didn't exactly create the apple pie life.

 

Sam also has a target, Crowley and Metatron and Sam always does better when he has a goal to reach for.

 

Don't know how valid this spoiler is, but It does give the title for the 3 ep the one that Jensen is directing and looks like it might be pretty in line.  Honestly very seldom does this show surprise me...so this seems in line with what I think they could do.  Of course they can change their mind quickly once the fan feedback starts in.

 

As for Jensen Ackles' character Dean Winchester, the latest spoiler reports tease that fans should prepare seeing a really scary Dean in "Supernatural" Season 10.

 

According to the Enstars report, "Supernatural" Season 10, Episode 3 will have the title "Soul Survivor" where the new female character, Rowena, will be introduced. It will also be the episode that "Supernatural" actor Jensen Ackles will work on as the director.

 

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/558707/20140710/supernatural-season-10-spoilers-premiere-episode-title.htm#.U77XGLHDU7l

 

Even if it isn't totally true it can create some interesting ideas.  Check out the link if you want to read the whole article.

 

I figure they are doing what they planned to do with Sam in Season 3.  He was suppose to turn bad in order to save Dean from going to hell.  So this does seem like something Carver would enjoy doing.  More information will be coming out soon as yes it is still a bit early but they are working on ep 3 since Jensen is back at work, directing.  So this would be the twist of now it's Dean's turn to turn bad afterall, Sam was soulless in season 6, so the rinse and repeat does seem to line up with the shows history.

Edited July 10, 2014 by 7kstar

[Demented Daisy]

I don't thin the frantic looking for Dean is necessarily a fanfic rewrite of S8.

 

Not so much Sam looking, but Dean disappearing again.  Especially without a trace.  Fixing Sam and Dean's relationship is one thing, but to give the characters the exact same situation but having Sam do the exact opposite of what he did before?  I find it hard to believe that they would do something so blatant so soon.

 

But maybe I'm giving them too much credit.

[catrox14]

I think since it's demon!Dean now that changes the playing field about 100%.

 

If Dean is going to become a killing machine, like Cain, he might want to get out of the bunker so he doesn't kill Sam if he has the capacity to make that decision.  Or maybe Crowley gets him out of the bunker because he's afraid he will kill Sam.  I mean I think Crowley sort of likes Moose.

 

I guess for me it's not the same situation because Dean is not the same, if that makes sense. To me Soulless Sam is not the same as demon!Dean because well ...demon infused with the MoC = more powerful, willing to do terrible things because demon reasons?

 

Maybe Sam finally feels guilty for not looking for Dean so he wants to make it right. I dunno? 

 

I have a bone to pick with that article!
 

he Season 9 finale had Dean Winchester embracing his new life as a demon after Metatron (Curtis Armstrong) killed him with the angel blade.

Uh, No. He didn't EMBRACE his new life. He was turned into a demon by another demon through subterfuge! Bah

Edited July 10, 2014 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

Yeah...I too am suspicious. However, with the current state of the show, who knows?

[Mcolleague]

I will be so done with this show if DEAN turns into a demon, and SAM is the one going down a dark path, yet again. Argh! Can Dean just, not have his storyline dropped for once? I sincerely hope it's just coming across this way to avoid giving too many spoilers. And it looks like the bland angel storyline is going to continue, with Cas being separated from the brothers. So many seasons of the same. 

 

As for Sam frantically looking for Dean - I wonder if this had always been the plan, or if it's the writers caving to fan pressure, since Sam not looking for Dean in Season 8 was so hated? I got this impression with the whole second half of Season 9 tbh, that the writers softened Sam's stance quite a bit, probably because of the fan backlash. Course correction maybe? 

[catrox14]

I will be so done with this show if DEAN turns into a demon, and SAM is the one going down a dark path, yet again. Argh! Can Dean just, not have his storyline dropped for once? I sincerely hope it's just coming across this way to avoid giving too many spoilers. And it looks like the bland angel storyline is going to continue, with Cas being separated from the brothers. So many seasons of the same

 

Heh, maybe the dark path will be Sam going back into Purgatory through the back door into Hell to try and find Dean.

.

[kimrey]

Spoilers from tvline

 

Hi, Matt! I’m curious to know about the Demon Dean personality through the first half of Supernatural Season 10. —Levana
Indeed, Dean has a bit of the devil in him — as will be evidenced by an intense fling he has in the second episode back, with a tough but sympathetic roadhouse cocktail waitress named Ann Marie.

 

 

http://tvline.com/2014/07/10/once-upon-a-time-season-4-captain-hook-new-clothes/

 

So.  Interesting.

 

I have to say, these spoilers so far have been kinda disappointing.  Possibly two new female recurring roles (if Dar and Rowena are actually two different characters) and now another female role that is a "fling" for Dean.  Just...not what I expected.

 

...and why are the character descriptions in casting calls always so stupid?  "Tough, yet sympathetic."  Yeah, okay.

Edited July 10, 2014 by kimrey

[AwesomO4000]

As for Sam frantically looking for Dean - I wonder if this had always been the plan, or if it's the writers caving to fan pressure, since Sam not looking for Dean in Season 8 was so hated? I got this impression with the whole second half of Season 9 tbh, that the writers softened Sam's stance quite a bit, probably because of the fan backlash. Course correction maybe? 

 

For me there were multiple reasons that Sam not looking for Dean in season 8 was so hated, not the least of which was that it made so little sense that the writers brought in a heretofore unknown in the 7 previous seasons supposed "understanding" the brothers came to off camera somewhere that Dean then explained they never followed anyway, and we saw both brothers never following anyway up to and including season 7. That "understanding" also wouldn't explain why Sam also didn't look for Kevin - who there was no evidence that he was dead, but it was a pretty good bet that he was probably being tortured by Crowley. I'm all for a writer doing something just because "they said so," but they shouldn't then be surprised by the fall out. In a case where it's not explained so well - and in my opinion all of this was not explained well at all, nor was there an attempt to do so - I also would think that those writers shouldn't then be surprised when viewers are going to complain about it. Especially if the character doing it is supposed to be one of the good guys - now if it was a bad guy, well then reasoning/motive wouldn't be as necessary, because it's a bad guy, but in this case it would be like expecting viewers to buy that - using an in show-type example - Superman decided to sit back and watch a crime happen and shrug his shoulders because he just didn't feel like being a hero that day, and oh well, crime happens all the time anyway, ho hum. There's gotta be some red kryptonite or something involved to make Superman act that way, or people are going to go "huh?" In my opinion it's lazy storytelling to just go "well the characters did it, because we said so." A writer can do that, but in my opinion, he/she should then expect that there will be fall out, and in my opinion, well-deserved fall out in this case. It's not like the fans just didn't like the Amelia story just because Amelia was a female character, so they were going to dislike her no matter what. Most people didn't like it because it made little sense, wasn't well thought out or explained, and made one of the main character look bad for apparently no reason even though it could've been easily fixed without any major "course correction" necessary.

 

As for trying to soften Sam, I actually disliked that the writers went the whole "well Sam was lying anyway" route. WTF did you have him so adamant about it for in the first place then? For me it just made Sam look like an idiot, jerk, and/or hypocrite - which might have been the writer intention anyway, since the side affect was another "Dean was right" moment that this show is so fond of. I would rather Sam at least have hesitated about calling Crowley - something to show he was struggling with going against Dean's wishes - but I get that miles vary.

 

So for me Sam looking for Dean would be less course correction and more getting the story on the course it should have been on all along - or wait is that the same thing? Crap, this show makes my head hurt.

 

Heh, maybe the dark path will be Sam going back into Purgatory through the back door into Hell to try and find Dean.

 

Well, at last he would've then left that door open for a good reason.

 

And the dark path better not be "I've got to kill Dean" in some twisted variation of season 2's "Save or kill" Sam thing, because then I'll be annoyed, especially since they are likely to twist it somehow to make Sam look bad - like he's more for the killing than the saving.

[catrox14]

Indeed, Dean has a bit of the devil in him — as will be evidenced by an intense fling he has in the second episode back, with a tough but sympathetic roadhouse cocktail waitress named Ann Marie.

 

Rant warning

 

Ugh. I really loathe that spoiler if it's true. 

 

It's not evil or demonic behavior to have consensual sex with willing partners. I HATE the implication that what has always been Dean's normal behavior is now only happening because he's demon!Dean's.

 

And if they make this creepy and gross where he is being a gross sexual predator that he has never been, I am just gonna lose my shit and tell the show to fuck right off. I am super disappointed already as to what they think is demon!Dean behavior. Fuck that.

[Pete Martell]

Spoilers from tvline

 

 

http://tvline.com/2014/07/10/once-upon-a-time-season-4-captain-hook-new-clothes/

 

So.  Interesting.

 

I have to say, these spoilers so far have been kinda disappointing.  Possibly two new female recurring roles (if Dar and Rowena are actually two different characters) and now another female role that is a "fling" for Dean.  Just...not what I expected.

 

...and why are the character descriptions in casting calls always so stupid?  "Tough, yet sympathetic."  Yeah, okay.

 

Tough and sympathetic Ann Marie. Is this some type of "That Girl" crossover? Marlo Thomas would probably be up for it...

 

I'm just annoyed at the idea of Dean being presented as hot and virile because he's a demon. It's just a host of issues. Would he be doing this if he was still human? Does she know he's a demon? Are they going to have him behave abusively toward her to try to show us that he's not really Dean? What does this show's idea of "intense" mean?

[catrox14]

As for trying to soften Sam, I actually disliked that the writers went the whole "well Sam was lying anyway" route.

 

The writers had different line and Jared changed it to "I lied"

 

I'm just annoyed at the idea of Dean being presented as hot and virile because he's a demon. It's just a host of issues. Would he be doing this if he was still human? Does she know he's a demon? Are they going to have him behave abusively toward her to try to show us that he's not really Dean? What does this show's idea of "intense" mean?

 

Yup, I agree.  it's a serious issue for me to take what has always been a healthy outlet for Dean and turn it into something evil. It's gross on so many levels. And gods, given that Jensen is so protective of Dean, I can't imagine what he thinks that's saying about Dean. Ugh. Just no no no. Don't do this show. Just don't .

[DittyDotDot]

What does this show's idea of "intense" mean?

 

I'd look that up in the Supernatural book of definitions for you @Pete Martell, but I doubt one exists. ;)  I'm guessing stealy looks at the camera and/or each other, probably a roll in the hay and bonus points if they bicker fight with each other before that roll in the hay.

 

Like I said earlier....I'm expecting shades of Soulless Sam.

[Pete Martell]

Given how offputting and forced those scenes were, I'm even more wary.

 

I'm really concerned that this is a scene the show will see as hot and viewers will see as assault.

[catrox14]

Be grateful we don't have Sera Gamble to remind us how hot the Jo being assaulted by Meg!Sam was ....eep.

 

I'm just really concerned what this is going to do to Dean's characterization.

[SueB]

TVLine spoiler for EP2-- and Dean having a one night intense sex with a waitress is a sign of being demonic? Sounds like a regular Tues night to me.

Although their track record for these scenes is kinda 'meh'.

Edited July 11, 2014 by SueB

[Mcolleague]

Fingers crossed the deadly duo don't write this episode. Or worse - Jenny Klein! 

[catrox14]

TVLine spoiler for EP2-

- and Dean having a one night intense sex with a waitress is a sign of being demonic? Sounds like a regular Tues night to me.

 

 Dean was promiscuous before he became a demon.  Bleh.  Also, since they are giving him this 'love'  interest with a tough by sympathetic woman, he why not make it Jodi Mills :P. I keed...kind of.  Bleh and then it's a roadhouse waitress? Just to remind us that Ellen and Jo are dead? :(.  I figured once the roadhouse was gone that part of things would be done.  bleh bleh bleh

Edited July 11, 2014 by catrox14

[catrox14]

So upon further review that original lengthy description was claimed to have been from the CW Press site. I poked around that site and the last thing published about SPN was at the end of June and it was only about the premier dates.  I think that was a load of poo.  I sure hope the TVline won is equally a load of poo.

[AwesomO4000]

The writers had different line and Jared changed it to "I lied"

 

I wonder what the line was before? If it was somehow denying it or being self-righteous about it, I wouldn't blame Jared for wanting it to be something simple like "I lied." The writers already had Sam pretty much lying by his actions - because he was calling up Crowley after Dean expressly said that he didn't want to live like that - so that part was already a given via the plot.

 

Like I said earlier....I'm expecting shades of Soulless Sam.

 

Which would be bizarre, because I think soulless and demon are two different things. Sleeping with anything with curves, including married women would seem in character for soulless Sam because of him having none of the reservations that Sam would normally put on himself. But that wasn't necessarily an "evil" aspect of soulless Sam... or even immoral (married women perhaps being the exception). Soulless Sam did other things that showed he was perhaps "immoral" and verging into dangerous and psychotic: like beating the police officer half to death and shooting the bartender woman because she was in the way and smirking while Dean was turned into a vampire. Even Sam just on demon blood condoned the killing of nurse Nancy.

 

If Dean is portrayed as being "demonic" just because he's - oh, noes - sleeping friskily with women,  he'll be the tamest demon ever.

 

Rant warning

 

Ugh. I really loathe that spoiler if it's true. 

 

It's not evil or demonic behavior to have consensual sex with willing partners. I HATE the implication that what has always been Dean's normal behavior is now only happening because he's demon!Dean's.

 

And if they make this creepy and gross where he is being a gross sexual predator that he has never been, I am just gonna lose my shit and tell the show to fuck right off. I am super disappointed already as to what they think is demon!Dean behavior. Fuck that.

 

I couldn't agree more. Ick.

 

And worse (in my opinion): It makes no sense. Demons are supposed to be evil, and sleeping with willing women - no matter how "intense" * the "fling" - is not evil or even necessarily immoral for that matter. So in my opinion, that wouldn't be evidence of "a bit of the devil" in Dean.

 

* Dean could wear her satin panties while engaging in some S&M and then eat pie off her naked bottom and it still wouldn't be evil. Potentially messy perhaps, but not evil.

[catrox14]

* Dean could wear her satin panties while engaging in some S&M and then eat pie off her naked bottom and it still wouldn't be evil. Potentially messy perhaps, but not evil.

 

 Dean has already worn Rhonda Hurley's pink satin panties when he was 19!  I mean even if Dean is all BDSM about it, is that even a surprise? I would be surprised if Dean was a top though, because he never ends up on top :).  Dom!Dean would be different LOL

Edited July 11, 2014 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

Dean has already worn Rhonda Hurley's pink satin panties when he was 19!

 

And he kinda liked it... Heh - that's why I used it in the example... along with the pie.

[catrox14]

Yup. All the panties and all the pie.

 

See one of the problems IMO with demon!Dean is that he's kind of already done a lot of shit that they give to demons. Sex, alcohol, drugs if you think of the MoC as a drug, he's killed a human, he's been friends with a vampire, he slept with a fallen angel. He's tortured souls in Hell. Dean could drink, use drug, sleep with men, women, demons and goats and that still isn't going to make him EVUL. There is kind of nothing new other than Dean trying to possess someone and being cruel and plotting schemes and being able to throw people across the room.

Edited July 11, 2014 by catrox14

[Tippi Blevins]

What does this show's idea of "intense" mean?

He removes half of the eight layers of clothing he usually wears.

[catrox14]

Okay I don't know if this is a spoiler but does this mean what I think it means and that Jensen is going to be an Executive Producer at some point. 

 

Jerry Wanek @JerryWanek
Follow

Jensen had a great prep. Very cool to see him grow as a director Will be a great EP
9:57 PM - 8 Jul 2014 Vancouver, Greater Vancouver, Canada

 

[AwesomO4000]

There is kind of nothing new other than Dean trying to possess someone and being cruel and plotting schemes and being able to throw people across the room.

 

And that's kind of the problem, because except for Dean potentially throwing someone across the room - and I think even that wouldn't be a hard throw if they went there - the writers might be afraid to take Dean's character to any of those other places. Or the gymnastics they might do to get him there - in other words he might "kill" someone, but it'll be self-defense somehow - will likely hurt my head... or throw another character (like say maybe Castiel this time) under the bus to do so. I'm wondering if the writers just thought "Cool, we'll make Dean a demon." But now that he is one, I wonder if they thought through exactly what that means... and what that might do to Dean, King of Guilt, in the aftermath.

 

He removes half of the eight layers of clothing he usually wears.

 

Bwah! And he'll remove them evilly somehow of course. Or maybe having sex with all of his clothes on will somehow convey evilness (it would be evil for us anyway).

[Mcolleague]

Jerry Wanek @JerryWanek

Follow

Jensen had a great prep. Very cool to see him grow as a director Will be a great EP

9:57 PM - 8 Jul 2014 Vancouver, Greater Vancouver, Canada

 

I thought EP stood for episode here. Even if he was going to be given a producer credit, he wouldn't be made an executive producer would he? Not positive how this stuff works though. 

Edited July 11, 2014 by Mcolleague

[catrox14]

 

And that's kind of the problem, because except for Dean potentially throwing someone across the room - and I think even that wouldn't be a hard throw if they went there - the writers might be afraid to take Dean's character to any of those other places. Or the gymnastics they might do to get him there - in other words he might "kill" someone, but it'll be self-defense somehow - will likely hurt my head... or throw another character (like say maybe Castiel this time) under the bus to do so. I'm wondering if the writers just thought "Cool, we'll make Dean a demon." But now that he is one, I wonder if they thought through exactly what that means... and what that might do to Dean, King of Guilt, in the aftermath.

 

I don't think they'll be afraid to take him to really dark places.  But he'll need a redemption arc, like Sam got in s5.

 

I thought EP stood for episode here. Even if he was going to be given a producer credit, he wouldn't be made an executive producer would he? Not positive how this stuff works though.

 

 

Aw man, you really just took the wind out of my sails :(.  I was thinking Executive Producer in the future. But yours makes much more sense.... l Well I feel kind of silly now.  Nevermind.

Edited July 11, 2014 by catrox14

[SueB]

 

So upon further review that original lengthy description was claimed to have been from the CW Press site. I poked around that site and the last thing published about SPN was at the end of June and it was only about the premier dates.  I think that was a load of poo.  I sure hope the TVline won is equally a load of poo.

It's not. Clarissa is a long-time reporter.  She used to work at TVOvermind.  See her interview of Jensen Ackles from last year here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0z-zRgptLY

 

More importantly, if you go to the CW Press site and look at the "About" for Supernatural, the 5th paragraph (below the S9 picture) is word for word what she put out regarding S10.  http://www.cwtvpr.com/the-cw/shows/supernatural/about  Bottom line: It's legit. But the CW Press site is not a fantastic source of data so I would not read anything into any particular wording.

 

As for Matt Mitovich, he's and Super Scooper Micheal Ausiello are the most legit spoiler sources out there in TV land from my experience.  I have no doubt he got a direct quote out of Carver or someone on the show staff.  So, unlike the CW Press site, the exact words are probably intentional. Of course Tippi could be right and "intense" may mean we get to see Dean's ankle.  So... what the staff thinks is a big deal may mean very little. 

Edited July 11, 2014 by SueB

[catrox14]

Thanks for clarifying Sue B. When I looked at the CW press website I looked under Supernatural.  Nothing about this was there. So I didn't look any further. 

[7kstar]

Spoilers from tvline

 

 

...and why are the character descriptions in casting calls always so stupid?  "Tough, yet sympathetic."  Yeah, okay.

 

Because Casting Directors can be someone that doesn't have a clue about acting.  But they think they do.  I had a class with an actress Named Judith Ivy and she talked about how some casting directors got in the business without any background in acting and she would receive the funniest directions.  They would say things like, I like it but can you do it faster and funnier? 

 

I also imagine Carver is aware of how much these things are leaked and if he wants to keep it unknown, he has to make it as generic as possible.

The writers had different line and Jared changed it to "I lied"

 

Yup, I agree.  it's a serious issue for me to take what has always been a healthy outlet for Dean and turn it into something evil. It's gross on so many levels. And gods, given that Jensen is so protective of Dean, I can't imagine what he thinks that's saying about Dean. Ugh. Just no no no. Don't do this show. Just don't .

 

What was the original line - do you know?   Sometimes I wonder if Jared and Jensen changing some lines create some of the issues we fans react to?

 

This show is sometimes just weird about sex and I hope they have outgrown some of the stuff they have done in the past as it is getting really old.  But I wouldn't mind Dean showing less layers and maybe totally shirtless, but I'm shallow on that.

 

The only thing I would see is Dean enjoying going after Demons and torturing them.  But Dean having flings haven't really been in the picture that much since season 3.  I know he had one in season 7 but that one turned out bad and Dean hasn't really been shown to doing much lately.  Of course it could be they think it will be comic as the bits the did with the trickster in season 1?  Too early to get worked up over it.  Right now I think they are deliberately giving some misdirections.

 

It would be interesting if Jensen became an Executive Producer. 

[kimrey]

Okay I don't know if this is a spoiler but does this mean what I think it means and that Jensen is going to be an Executive Producer at some point. 

 

I think EP means episode.

 

Edit: Whoops, never mind.  Someone beat me to it.

Edited July 11, 2014 by kimrey

[DittyDotDot]

See one of the problems IMO with demon!Dean is that he's kind of already done a lot of shit that they give to demons. Sex, alcohol, drugs if you think of the MoC as a drug, he's killed a human, he's been friends with a vampire, he slept with a fallen angel. He's tortured souls in Hell. Dean could drink, use drug, sleep with men, women, demons and goats and that still isn't going to make him EVUL. There is kind of nothing new other than Dean trying to possess someone and being cruel and plotting schemes and being able to throw people across the room.

 

I think the only way they can sell Dean on being demonic is take him the opposite of what he is now. What they did with Soulless Sam worked because all the things they had him doing was not only morally wrong, but also not at all the way original recipe Sam acted. Sam never had sex and always overthought about what was right and wrong and always had trouble with the hunting life--Soulless Sam did not. If they want me to believe that Dean is something other than himself, they will need to do more than that to convince me--but this show being what it is and all, I'm expecting them to do the most obvious and the most shallow, whether it makes sense or not.

 

Okay I don't know if this is a spoiler but does this mean what I think it means and that Jensen is going to be an Executive Producer at some point. 

 

No, I think it just means episode...but it's already criminal that Jensen and Jared don't already have producer credits, IMO.

 

I don't think they'll be afraid to take him to really dark places.  But he'll need a redemption arc, like Sam got in s5.

 

Currently dark on this show is pretty light, if you ask me. They've never handled a redemption arc well either.  It'd be best if they just get Dean out of it quickly and return to hunting, but I'm expecting them to draw it out of at least eight to ten episodes--fall sweeps being somewhere in that range and all that.

[Demented Daisy]

More importantly, if you go to the CW Press site and look at the "About" for Supernatural, the 5th paragraph (below the S9 picture) is word for word what she put out regarding S10.  Bottom line: It's legit.

 

 

Ugh.  That is so disappointing.  I obviously gave the writers too much credit.  I cannot believe that Dean is disappearing "without a trace" again, so soon.  Well, for one episode, anyway.

 

I'll never understand the idea that Sam and Dean need to be separated -- I mean, yes, Sam and Dean could use some time apart to get their priorities in order, but it never happens.  Whenever they have been apart, it's been temporary and nothing has changed.  Yet the writers keep doing it.  So what could it change this time?

 

Could Sam realize how much he needs/wants his brother around?

 

Could Dean realize that he coddles Sam too much, that he needs to stop being an overprotective big brother?

 

Or will it be another case of one brother chasing the other, trying to save him, without any real thought as to why?  Just a knee-jerk reaction to a brother in danger?

 

*Sigh*  I suspect it will be the third option.  As I say entirely too often, prove me wrong, show.

[DittyDotDot]

I add another second to that...Prove DD wrong show, I dare ya!

 

 

ETA: Actually, I'll double Hellhound dare ya!

Edited July 11, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[7kstar]

I think the only way they can sell Dean on being demonic is take him the opposite of what he is now. What they did with Soulless Sam worked because all the things they had him doing was not only morally wrong, but also not at all the way original recipe Sam acted. Sam never had sex and always overthought about what was right and wrong and always had trouble with the hunting life--Soulless Sam did not. If they want me to believe that Dean is something other than himself, they will need to do more than that to convince me--but this show being what it is and all, I'm expecting them to do the most obvious and the most shallow, whether it makes sense or not.

 

 

No, I think it just means episode...but it's already criminal that Jensen and Jared don't already have producer credits, IMO.

 

 

Currently dark on this show is pretty light, if you ask me. They've never handled a redemption arc well either.  It'd be best if they just get Dean out of it quickly and return to hunting, but I'm expecting them to draw it out of at least eight to ten episodes--fall sweeps being somewhere in that range and all that.

 I wonder why they don't have Executive Producer Credits?  Do they have to invest in the show for them to get that?

 

I agree with you on this post.  My issue with the going dark, that they just dip their toe in the pool and them scramble out in some stupid way.  Think of Head of Pin and then it's followed by It's a terrible Life and they just ignore the weight that Dean was carrying.  If you're going to go there then go there.  I never bought Sam's redemption arc because he'd say I'm sorry and then repeat the same things, so how on earth does that mean he's changed when he hasn't.  I hope this time they will repair the relationship and put the conflict where it belongs on fighting against the odds.

 

Indeed, Dean has a bit of the devil in him — as will be evidenced by an intense fling he has in the second episode back, with a tough but sympathetic roadhouse cocktail waitress named Ann Marie.

 

Okay this can go so many ways.   A bit of a devil --- what does that mean?  Does he act as if he is so into her and willing to marry her only to drop her in the dust? 

 

One opposite would be for Dean to be totally without remorse and doing what he wants to do, by putting himself first.  He doesn't usually do this other than a few eps in Season 3.  WE already saw one change in 9, he finally told Sam this is how it will be and no I'm in charge.  So it may be more of that, he isn't willing to listen to Sam and finally just doesn't care.  This could be a challenge for Sam to deal with, because he really hasn't had Dean stand up to him and just not care.

 

I 2nd the idea of Dean going to get Benny so we can see Benny's reaction. 

 

How Cass will figure into this, don't have an idea other than he's once again all alone and since he believes Dean is dead, and doesn't know about him being turned into a Demon, he may just ignore the boys for awhile.

Edited July 11, 2014 by 7kstar

[catrox14]

ETA: Actually, I'll double Hellhound dare ya!

 

/gasp.  You NEVER double Hellhound dare. 

IMO, thinking more on this I think the only way Dean can go darker if is he stops caring about humanity or Sam or Cas.  It's always been his raison d'etre. And if Dean stops caring about those things, then he really is lost to us.

[DittyDotDot]

/gasp.  You NEVER double Hellhound dare. 

 

But I did and I won't--I won't, I say--take it back! That's just how serious I'm taking that dare. ;)

[catrox14]

demon!DittyDotDot, is that you?

[Demented Daisy]

Bwah!  Nah, Ditty has always been evil.  ;-)

[AwesomO4000]

One opposite would be for Dean to be totally without remorse and doing what he wants to do, by putting himself first.  He doesn't usually do this other than a few eps in Season 3.  WE already saw one change in 9, he finally told Sam this is how it will be and no I'm in charge.  So it may be more of that, he isn't willing to listen to Sam and finally just doesn't care.  This could be a challenge for Sam to deal with, because he really hasn't had Dean stand up to him and just not care.

 

I 2nd the idea of Dean going to get Benny so we can see Benny's reaction.

 

I disagree that Sam hasn't had Dean stand up to him before * or even just not care anymore ** - Sam's had both and sometimes surprisingly handled them very well... which begs the question why doesn't Dean do it more often? But I digress, because in this case the not caring could potentially be paired with "evil," and I think that is the only way it's going to be different.

 

* A few times, but most notably in "The Mentalists" where Sam backed down and was the one to give concessions and, as you noted, last season where Sam had no choice in the matter.

 

** "Croatoan" comes to mind - Sam let Dean have his wish to just let it go there. Mid to later season 4: Sam didn't handle that one well, and was too far gone by that point. Late season 5, arguably: though there was some caring about humanity (or at least half of it), what Sam (or Castiel) thought wasn't entering into the picture at all at that point in Dean's mind. Sam handled that one pretty well, I thought, considering. Sam had had a rough couple of episodes before that - especially "Dark Side..." where Dean made his "Don't much care what Sam thinks anymore" stance known pretty dramatically - so I was impressed that Sam was able to keep it together and do the right thing by Dean myself.

 

As for Benny: couple that with the open Purgatory door into hell mentioned earlier, and I personally think it would be cool if - depending on Castiel's stance on Dean - Sam decided to purgatory (to either get to hell to look for Dean or to get Benny) and either purposefully or by accident finds Benny and recruits his help to find Dean. It would make sense to me, since Benny would more understand a more stripped down, "feral" Dean, so who better to help Sam find a missing Dean in that condition than Benny?

 

And then there might be some tension between them, because what kind of Dean would Benny actually prefer? Sam and Benny would have to learn to trust each other and I think it might be something new and interesting for the show - Sam actually gets to interact with a character other than Dean and sometimes Castiel. They don't have to necessarily like each other much -  and it would make more sense if they didn't - so the dynamic might be interesting, in my opinion.

 

This is why the spoilers for the new characters annoy me. They don't need new characters - they have perfectly good characters like Benny already there to be used.

[DittyDotDot]

 

Bwah!  Nah, Ditty has always been evil.  ;-)

 

Hee, hee, hee! ::rubs hands with a devilish grin::

 

I wonder why they don't have Executive Producer Credits?  Do they have to invest in the show for them to get that?

 

Sorry, my evilness sidetracked me earlier... @7kstar, I don't think they have to invest money to be a producer. There's lots of different types of producers on a television show--some shows give writers credits on their episodes and some shows give directors for the same thing. I think it can just mean that you are involved with more than only your part you play, but have some say in the overall story development and are involved in more of the day to day operations. I think it just depends on the show as to how people get their producer credits. Jared and Jensen mostly play their roles, but I think they also do more than we know and really the only reason these two characters have any sort of consistency is because of those two guys.  I think the main leads on Bones are producers and I believe that Timothy Olyphant is one on Justified. I think it would be really nice for Jared and Jensen to have some say in other parts of the show, but mostly I'd like to see the show recognize them more than just as actors playing their part. Of course, their contracts will be up after this season, so if they continue on the show, I hope they request it.

Edited July 12, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[7kstar]

@AwesomO4000

I'm not a fan of Season 7 I barely remember it, I didn't watch it live and I really hated what they did with Sam.  The funny thing before I would read the comments about poor Dean or Poor Sam and laugh, especially when they started talking about either actor should just leave the show.

 

I really am sick to death of whose done what to each other, so really I would like them to EMBRACE Kevin's advice and just get over it already.  But I guess from my point of view as the older sibling, of course, I don't see Dean backing down that much but really only occasionally putting his foot down. 

 

It reminds me of my dog's reaction to the younger female dog.  He would take her roughhousing and she would push and push and push and then finally he would let her know back off, and he would nip her.  That's all it took.  But of course, she would soon be doing it again.  This reminds me of Dean and Sam. 

 

To me that's whats happened with Dean, he's let Sam do things his way and usually it backfires but then he has this moment where he's just had enough and stands up to Sam.  Sam will back off because most of the time he gets his way unless Dean really believes it's wrong. But Sam has been bossy since the beginning.  But I don't really blame Sam as when he's grown up believing his self worth is important and Dean has encouraged him to believe he is more important than him, hence I'll go to hell cause you should be alive more than me.

 

HOWEVER I really hope the line gave in the Season 9 finale will mean something.  I don't remember it exactly but it was something along the lines, let's take down Metatron before we find something else to fight about.

 

I'm taking that statement as we will always disagree, but we work better together.  Plus at the end when he realizes his brother is dying, that now he wants to do something even though Dean tells him it's better this way and leave. 

 

Of course with their track record, it will be dropped and once again they move back into can't get along.

 

So to some degree I think we are on the same page even though we don't agree on everything.  :)

Hee, hee, hee! ::rubs hands with a devilish grin::

 

 

Sorry, my evilness sidetracked me earlier... @7kstar, I don't think they have to invest money to be a producer. There's lots of different types of producers on a television show--some shows give writers credits on their episodes and some shows give directors for the same thing. I think it can just mean that you are involved with more than only your part you play, but have some say in the overall story development and are involved in more of the day to day operations. I think it just depends on the show as to how people get their producer credits. Jared and Jensen mostly play their roles, but I think they also do more than we know and really the only reason these two characters have any sort of consistency is because of those two guys.  I think the main leads on Bones are producers and I believe that Timothy Olyphant is one on Justified. I think it would be really nice for Jared and Jensen to have some say in other parts of the show, but mostly I'd like to see the show recognize them more than just as actors playing their part. Of course, their contracts will be up after this season, so if they continue on the show, I hope they request it.

Understand, sometimes we just have to focus on our guilty pleasures.  :)   I guess I got long winded so I figured it would be better to split them but it wouldn't let me. :(

 

In Theatre producer is the one that brings in the money.  Director is the important one.  So I forget how it works, on TV.  If they do go past 10, I hope they ask for it, unless they don't want it.  I wonder if it means more time on their part and less time with their families.  I guess I thought that if actors became an executive producer, it was a way for the show to not necessarily increase their pay because they got more revenue if the show did well especially in repeats

Edited July 12, 2014 by 7kstar

[DittyDotDot]

It might mean more time on their part and I don't wish them to be separated from their families more than necessary--and quite possibly they don't want the extra responsibility anyway. I can relate, sometimes just doing your own job--and doing it well--is enough.

 

I really am sick to death of whose done what to each other, so really I would like them to EMBRACE Kevin's advice and just get over it already.  But I guess from my point of view as the older sibling, of course, I don't see Dean backing down that much but really only occasionally putting his foot down.

 

I'm sick to death of it too @7kstar, but I'd say the bossy and following behavior is split pretty evenly. And I don't see it as much as Sam always getting his way and Dean never standing up to him, but that Dean picks his battles and puts his foot down when it's important to him. I generally see that Dean's willing to listen and accept other's advice and sometimes he changes his mind about how to approach a problem based on that advice, but he also knows when it's time to put his foot down--the other stuff just isn't important to him. But I definitely see Dean being bossy just as much as Sam is.

Edited July 12, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[AwesomO4000]

@7kstar I'm interested in your opinions on what you didn't like about season 7 Sam. I am taking my comments to the "Dean and Sam" thread, and if you would like to continue discussing I have taken it there if you're interested.

[PeteMartell]

Yup. All the panties and all the pie.

 

See one of the problems IMO with demon!Dean is that he's kind of already done a lot of shit that they give to demons. Sex, alcohol, drugs if you think of the MoC as a drug, he's killed a human, he's been friends with a vampire, he slept with a fallen angel. He's tortured souls in Hell. Dean could drink, use drug, sleep with men, women, demons and goats and that still isn't going to make him EVUL. There is kind of nothing new other than Dean trying to possess someone and being cruel and plotting schemes and being able to throw people across the room.

 

Demons on this show aren't about sex, drinking, and drugs (most of the main demons on the show were rarely interested in any of these things, aside from rape threats) as much as they're about torture and death and finding pure joy in torture and death. That's what Dean would fear most. 

[PeteMartell]

I think the only way they can sell Dean on being demonic is take him the opposite of what he is now. What they did with Soulless Sam worked because all the things they had him doing was not only morally wrong, but also not at all the way original recipe Sam acted. Sam never had sex and always overthought about what was right and wrong and always had trouble with the hunting life--Soulless Sam did not. If they want me to believe that Dean is something other than himself, they will need to do more than that to convince me--but this show being what it is and all, I'm expecting them to do the most obvious and the most shallow, whether it makes sense or not.

 

Sam had his share of sex. It's just that the show got into the silly habit of implying that if Sam was having sex that meant something was wrong with him or he was going down a dark path (this started in season 4). That meant by the time of Soulless Sam, they were stuck on how to make him wilder than Sam was in season 4...and as a result they gave awful cliches like a prostitute refusing to take Sam's money.

 

I'm disappointed they're going to have Dean having sex as a sign of the demon's wickedness because again I fear they will not know how to do it. I'm so afraid they will create a scene that looks like rape, even if they insist it's not. 

[DittyDotDot]

Sam had his share of sex. It's just that the show got into the silly habit of implying that if Sam was having sex that meant something was wrong with him or he was going down a dark path (this started in season 4). That meant by the time of Soulless Sam, they were stuck on how to make him wilder than Sam was in season 4...and as a result they gave awful cliches like a prostitute refusing to take Sam's money.

 

I'm disappointed they're going to have Dean having sex as a sign of the demon's wickedness because again I fear they will not know how to do it. I'm so afraid they will create a scene that looks like rape, even if they insist it's not. 

 

Part of Sam's early characterization was that he wasn't interested in casual sexual relationships and then it became clear that whenever he did engage the recipient usually died horribly, so he usually just didn't engage at all  For me, it wasn't just that Soulless Sam was having lots of sex, it was the casual nature in which he was partaking that indicated he was on a dark path and made him seem different than regular recipe Sam.

 

I'm assuming the show is going to totally screw this up with Dean. When it comes to sex, this show is the equivalent of 12-year-old girls giggling in the back of the sex education class, I highly doubt they have the ability to depict an adult sexual relationship, whether it be demonic or not.

[Pete Martell]

For me, Sam's sexual encounter with that doctor in "Sex and Violence," while working a case, was something that would have worked well for Soulless Sam, because generally it was something I don't think Sam would have done (I felt like it was shoehorned into that episode to try to show some sort of "betraying brothers" contrast with Dean and the siren). Soulless Sam felt so much like Sera Gamble's porn fantasy come to life that I could never see the characterization in it. 

 

I really just wish they'd have the guys stay celibate forever unless they learn how to, as you say, stop writing at a 12 year old level.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Pete Martell

[DittyDotDot]

Realistically, if Dean is demonic, he should be abstaining--like with the burger that he left uneaten and Crowley noticed--and that should be what clues Sam in that something's off with Dean. I'm actually skeptical about this "intense" relationship, I'm betting they released it to get everyone all worked up and excited that they might see a neekid Dean. I think there will be some grain of truth to it, but I also thing they're purposely misleading folks and trying to get everyone worked up. That seems to be what they spend their energy on these days--stirring the pot to create buzz.  I wouldn't be surprised if "intense" turns out to mean that some chick throws herself at Dean and he's not all that interested, but ends up killing her because, well, he's demonic, you know. Bonus points if this is the thing that, once he's no longer demonic, he remembers and feels most guilty about.

 

Sorry, I just can't bring myself to be anything but pessimistic about the writing of this show anymore...didn't mean to rain on anyone's parade.