Spoilers With Speculation

[rue721]

I think probably just the episode, because isn't the episode that Jensen's directing the first episode of the season to be produced, but set to be the third to air? Given how S10 ended, imo it would be weird if Rowena were in the third episode of the season but not the first two. So I doubt that this (wrapping up ep.3) is actually the last time that Ruth will be on set for SPN, since she's probably got a part to play in ep.1 and ep.2. I think it's just a wrap on her filming that episode/with Jensen directing her. Was that convoluted? Sorry about that, dead on my feet lol.

[catrox14]

To me since it is the 3rd episode which seems to be the one where previous arcs are wrapped up...see demon!Dean...I wouldn't be at all surprised for her to be gone.

[Diane]

To me since it is the 3rd episode which seems to be the one where previous arcs are wrapped up...see demon!Dean...I wouldn't be at all surprised for her to be gone.

She would still, I would guess have a part in ep 1 and 2, which they haven't started filming yet. But of course just my guess.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Diane

[Mick Lady]

Just when I thought I had made my peace with this lore, you guys come back and get me pissed all over again! catrox14, I love you, I truly do, but if we ever met, I don't think I could keep myself from strangling you! I dread your posts that start with "And another thing" or "Wait a minute"

 

You're enjoying this aren't you?

 

You guys better come visit me in the asylum.

[7kstar]

We didn't see the mark on any of the knights of hell that Cain killed.

 

So...I think only who he felt was worthy could get the mark.  Hence the reason Dean kill Abaddon.

 

But since they don't stick with what they create, we should feel free to make up our own rules.

[Wynterwolf]

But since they don't stick with what they create, we should feel free to make up our own rules.

 

Heh, this has been my motto since S3.  

[catrox14]

 

 

Just when I thought I had made my peace with this lore, you guys come back and get me pissed all over again! catrox14, I love you, I truly do, but if we ever met, I don't think I could keep myself from strangling you! I dread your posts that start with "And another thing" or "Wait a minute"

 

You're enjoying this aren't you?

 

You'd think! I'm always like "BUT BUT GUYS! This isn't what you said before! And you didn't explain that you changed it and why do you LIE TO ME ALL THE TIME.  Why can't I quit you!? Oh because the face saying your lying words looks like Jensen Ackles.

Fucking cheaters....using that face and that ackting..../walks away muttering something about that asshole and his perfect Ackting....

 

 

 

You guys better come visit me in the asylum.

 

Memo to SPNFamily : PTV chapter:

 

    Guys, I'm very concerned that Mick Lady doesn't actually realize where she is. I think her SPNFamily: PTV chapter orientation package, with that handy straight jacket and bottle of whiskey, went missing. Do you think we should send a note Mick in the Dean-girl ward? Maybe Mick Lady got stuck behind Door 42?  What do we do?

 

Love,

Catrox

Edited July 17, 2015 by catrox14

[catrox14]

I think this is a new interview with Jared from Comic-Con. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrbWA8oeDqE#t=77

[SueB]

I hadn't seen that before:

"220hrs of banging your head against the wall" - Jared Padelecki

 

Hee....I think it's been a few more hours than that.

[SueB]

An updated list of interviews:

http://justanotheridijiton.tumblr.com/post/123953651704/sdcc15-spn-roundtables-final-update-17-july

 

I like the Carver Showbiz Junkie interview and the Lisa Steinberg interview.  In the second he identifies he did not complete the 3 year plan because he realized mid S9 they'd have more than 3 years.  The Darkness was NOT part of the 3 year plan.

 

And much to my dismay, per Andrew Dabb, the Darkness is going to be in human form:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2611bJtkCRY&feature=youtu.be

In another interview he says "she"

 

This Andrew Dabb video is pretty funny IMO (comment about Mark Sheppardhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvPYjyaTK54&feature=youtu.be - he's British, we won the war):

Edited July 18, 2015 by SueB

[catrox14]

 

And much to my dismay, per Andrew Dabb, the Darkness is going to be in human form:

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be

In another interview he says "she"

BOOO!

[Mick Lady]

Don't believe this for a second guys! I saw catrox14 and Mick sneaking off with the whiskey! Dean and Crowley put them up to it! And I'm fine. I like it here behind door 42, nothing to see here....

 

The Darkness is a woman?! Anyone have a Vicodin?

[catrox14]

I really want to know what the end of his 3 year plan was.

[7kstar]

 

May be a little clearer, from Dabb and he let's it slip about Crowley.  Also he says we may see something from Sam's past that the fans have been asking for years...

 

The thing I got from Jared's last interview, is that they think it is okay to do stuff that the fans may not like because we will stick with them.  I think this maybe some of the reasons we have issues, because they take risks without thinking it all the way through and expect the fans to forgive them.

Don't believe this for a second guys! I saw catrox14 and Mick sneaking off with the whiskey! Dean and Crowley put them up to it! And I'm fine. I like it here behind door 42, nothing to see here....

 

The Darkness is a woman?! Anyone have a Vicodin?

No, I used my last one...sorry... oh wait, I found one but it was on the floor, do ya still want it?

For some reason I keep following Dean...don't know why.

[catrox14]

 

The thing I got from Jared's last interview, is that they think it is okay to do stuff that the fans may not like because we will stick with them.  I think this maybe some of the reasons we have issues, because they take risks without thinking it all the way through and expect the fans to forgive them.

 

I have to say that comment kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Being magnanimous, I think he was trying to say they could take risks like the French Mistake or Fan Fiction and probably the upcoming Baby episode. But it also felt a little bit on the edge of taking us for granted that no matter what really fucked up thing they do we'll come back. And there is a part of me that's like, you know buddy, don't hold your breath here". I read a couple of other SPN blogs and the majority of those viewers are not coming back for s11 because of Charlie's death.

[DittyDotDot]

Holy carp, I always forget what a fast-talker Dabb is. I don't mean sneaky, but literally talks fast. Anyway, he was very cute in his ruining that Crowley was dead!

 

So, Crowley's gonna get introduced in a way he's never been seen before, eh? Dog? Orange?....HAMSTER!!!! ;)

 

 

The thing I got from Jared's last interview, is that they think it is okay to do stuff that the fans may not like because we will stick with them.  I think this maybe some of the reasons we have issues, because they take risks without thinking it all the way through and expect the fans to forgive them.

 

Unfortunately that's the feeling I've been getting from Carver and Singer over the last couple years, too. It sounds like the new party line now. I'm all for them taking risks, but don't do it just because you can, do it because it's a good idea and it helps tell the story you want to tell.  

[Aeryn13]

 

But it also felt a little bit on the edge of taking us for granted that no matter what really fucked up thing they do we'll come back.

 

Their complacency aside, it is not like their assessment is untrue. The ratings remain relatively stable, no matter how much the writing sucks. So why should they even try? If you passion for a project, that is different but if it is just business, they can coast. I doubt killing off Charlie will make a dent in the ratings either. It`s not like the ratings spiked when she was on. At this point, they could probably show a testscreen for 42 minutes in the show`s usual timeslot and it would have roughly the same ratings.  

[Demented Daisy]

Unfortunately that's the feeling I've been getting from Carver and Singer over the last couple years, too. It sounds like the new party line now. I'm all for them taking risks, but don't do it just because you can, do it because it's a good idea and it helps tell the story you want to tell.  

 

Agreed.  Likewise, I think they're depending more on their younger viewers.  They know that the younger ones are less concerned about telling a good story, love silly drama, get indignant on Twitter when something happens they don't like... and are quick to forgive and forget.

[Wynterwolf]

I really want to know what the end of his 3 year plan was.

 

My sense of Carver's 3 year plan was always, S8: get the boys back together, S9: they each deal with their own sense of self, S10: a global Big Bad comes in where the boys (with Dean having built his leadership skills, and finally gotten more comfortable with his leadership responsibilities) have to build alliances with other previously unlikely factions to 'save the world'.  But then they got the S11 pick up and we detoured into the Mark of Cain and Demon!Dean territory.  So now that Carver is talking about the alliance stuff again, I wonder if they have decided on an end date for the show.  

[AwesomO4000]

Wow, you guys have been busy while I was gone. This is a lot to digest. And I feel a little... strange about this, because after reading the spoilers, my feelings on where this looks like it's going to me are off in left field somewhere in comparison. While Mick Lady is behind door 42, I feel like I'm maybe in Gabriel's TV Land Japanese game show, and I'm thinking in Japanese or something - though the shrimp chips are delicious, so at least I've got that - because my reading of the hints from the spoilers is, well... different to say the least. So here goes...

 

First, The brother's united thing: (from the spoilers) "It’s been made clear that the brothers will be working together this season, but don’t expect 100%  smooth sailing." and “... there are going to be bumps in the road, there are going to be differences in opinion. Again, that’s what makes Supernatural so fun, that the boys will come at problems from different angles.” But they're fighting against a huge foe they have to thwart for the greater good, blah blah... so got it... season 5 redux, and the differences of opinion are going to be that Dean's there because he has to fight the evil, but he's angry - and likely not sharing it with Sam - and so this is why he doesn't feel guilty, because well it's not his fault the Darkness is there, it's Sam's so... And one difference of opinion is that Dean isn't going to trust Sam's "visions" - Faith versus humanity - which brings me to...

 

Sam's "visions": Okay, it's the darkness that's out there, right? So why would Sam be getting visions from a good higher power and not the Darkness? The interesting wording for me from the spoilers was "Sam believes there’s a higher power trying to contact him to tell him how to solve this problem." Notice the emphasized word. Sam has believed he's had the right idea and higher power directing/encouraging him before *cough* Chuck *cough* and been completely wrong. Sam really, really wants to fix things, so he wants to believe he can get help from a higher power... perfect person for evil to corrupt just like Ruby did before. And Sam has always wanted so badly for God to be out there and for his faith to be realized and... it never is, because the show is about the power of humanity not God or faith. Sam wanted to believe in angels, and first they weren't there, and then worse, when they actually did show up, they were jerks... and thought of him as scum. God's messenger berated him, and God didn't give a crap when both he and Dean ended up in hell due to his angel's machinations. I see as much chance that these "visions" are either the Darkness (or the human embodiment of the Darkness - and can I just say ugh!) or Lucifer or someone evil (Crowley, Rowena, Snuggles the Bear, whoever) using Sam because he's vulnerable as it is that these visions are a good higher power. I'd say 50/50 at this point myself. "Higher power" doesn't automatically mean "good." From the beginning, Sam = Scully and Dean = Mulder, and as in the X=Files, Mulder is almost always right in the perception of a situation.

 

And... "episode 11.02 will 'set Sam on a path, on a story that I think will in some ways be surprising and in some ways I think fans have been waiting for for a long time. It ties back to something kind of in his past...' " Crap. To me, this says Evil Sam or demon Sam or something like that, because those two highlighted things to me plus "in some ways" and “you can’t outrun your past,” = Dark Sam. Hell, I'm 60/40 Sam, and I'm writing demoned Sam in one of my fanfics, because that's where the original story wanted to go but didn't. I feel many fans felt cheated out of where did the "Boy King" of hell story go, and I can see Carver and Dabb thinking "I know, we'll finally give them that story Kripke was going to do in season 3 to 4." Except without the Dean motivation, it's going to make it awful and all about Sam being lost in hubris in thinking he knows how to save the world rather than him trying to save Dean.

 

So my interpretation of these spoilers went in an entirely different direction... which ironically lead to a well trodden path... Sam thinks he knows how to fix an apocalypse, because a supernatural influence is telling him how he can fix it, Dean thinks he's wrong, Dean ends up being right about that.

 

And of course Rowena is going to be "more powerful than ever," because unleashing the Darkness wasn't enough. Sam also had to be the cause of Rowena becoming a major player. Great: more stuff to be blamed on Sam. I can't wait. *Le sigh*

 

And if all of this is true, I feel kind of Sorry for Jared. I'm sure he thought season 8 and 9 was going to be interesting, too, until they actually happened and trashed his character. I don't want to have to imagine how he's going to feel if it turns out that I'm right about all of this and Sam is believing a lie which to me is very likely what the writers would consider "surprising." Though not me, because at this point, I believe that Carver thinks Sam is a completely gullible moron with delusions of grandeur who would entirely listen to an evil entity pretending to be a "higher power," and that Carver has forgotten about Sam from season 5 who does believe in God but thinks he "stopped caring a long time ago" and pretty much gotten a ton of proof - including Joshua telling him exactly that and 180 years stuck in the cage with Lucifer - that that's pretty much the case and instead is someone who apparently doesn't learn when it comes to listening to things that are too good to be true. Again. Some more.

 

I hope I'm wrong... but generally...

 

*Looks sheepish* ...But yay, I'm back?

[7kstar]

Welcome back but if they rinse and repeat season 7, perhaps Sam will look a little better.  No promises...what kind of drink would you like?  Would you like some cheese?  :)

[AwesomO4000]

I'm from Massachusetts originally, so a sloe gin fizz please... and cheese would be lovely. I'll bring the crackers.

 

And I liked season 7 Sam very much, and he was coming off of one of my favorite Sam episodes where Sam did a very brave thing to help Dean, with nary a causing an apocalypse in sight. I even liked season 5 Sam to an extent, but that was because he started the apocalypse for the first time then... since this is a repeat apocalypse starting - that Sam obviously didn't learn from the first time - we're already starting out in a Stupid Sam hole. As Dean would say "Sam, you should know better than to listen to strange voices in your head saying that they are heavenly powers trying to be helpful... since when has any heavenly power we've met - besides Cas... sometimes - not been a dick?" I remember that Dean's pretty much said that God is next on his (hit) list. In no way is he gonna like it if Sam thinks he's having visions from Him. At all.

 

Besides, I suspect Sam's gonna keep it all a secret anyway... because we can never have enough secrets and lies on this show. *Le sigh*

[SueB]

Wow, you guys have been busy while I was gone. This is a lot to digest. And I feel a little... strange about this, because after reading the spoilers, my feelings on where this looks like it's going to me are off in left field somewhere in comparison. While Mick Lady is behind door 42, I feel like I'm maybe in Gabriel's TV Land Japanese game show, and I'm thinking in Japanese or something - though the shrimp chips are delicious, so at least I've got that - because my reading of the hints from the spoilers is, well... different to say the least. So here goes...

 

First, The brother's united thing: (from the spoilers) "It’s been made clear that the brothers will be working together this season, but don’t expect 100%  smooth sailing." and “... there are going to be bumps in the road, there are going to be differences in opinion. Again, that’s what makes Supernatural so fun, that the boys will come at problems from different angles.” But they're fighting against a huge foe they have to thwart for the greater good, blah blah... so got it... season 5 redux, and the differences of opinion are going to be that Dean's there because he has to fight the evil, but he's angry - and likely not sharing it with Sam - and so this is why he doesn't feel guilty, because well it's not his fault the Darkness is there, it's Sam's so... And one difference of opinion is that Dean isn't going to trust Sam's "visions" - Faith versus humanity - which brings me to...

 

Sam's "visions": Okay, it's the darkness that's out there, right? So why would Sam be getting visions from a good higher power and not the Darkness? The interesting wording for me from the spoilers was "Sam believes there’s a higher power trying to contact him to tell him how to solve this problem." Notice the emphasized word. Sam has believed he's had the right idea and higher power directing/encouraging him before *cough* Chuck *cough* and been completely wrong. Sam really, really wants to fix things, so he wants to believe he can get help from a higher power... perfect person for evil to corrupt just like Ruby did before. And Sam has always wanted so badly for God to be out there and for his faith to be realized and... it never is, because the show is about the power of humanity not God or faith. Sam wanted to believe in angels, and first they weren't there, and then worse, when they actually did show up, they were jerks... and thought of him as scum. God's messenger berated him, and God didn't give a crap when both he and Dean ended up in hell due to his angel's machinations. I see as much chance that these "visions" are either the Darkness (or the human embodiment of the Darkness - and can I just say ugh!) or Lucifer or someone evil (Crowley, Rowena, Snuggles the Bear, whoever) using Sam because he's vulnerable as it is that these visions are a good higher power. I'd say 50/50 at this point myself. "Higher power" doesn't automatically mean "good." From the beginning, Sam = Scully and Dean = Mulder, and as in the X=Files, Mulder is almost always right in the perception of a situation.

 

And... "episode 11.02 will 'set Sam on a path, on a story that I think will in some ways be surprising and in some ways I think fans have been waiting for for a long time. It ties back to something kind of in his past...' " Crap. To me, this says Evil Sam or demon Sam or something like that, because those two highlighted things to me plus "in some ways" and “you can’t outrun your past,” = Dark Sam. Hell, I'm 60/40 Sam, and I'm writing demoned Sam in one of my fanfics, because that's where the original story wanted to go but didn't. I feel many fans felt cheated out of where did the "Boy King" of hell story go, and I can see Carver and Dabb thinking "I know, we'll finally give them that story Kripke was going to do in season 3 to 4." Except without the Dean motivation, it's going to make it awful and all about Sam being lost in hubris in thinking he knows how to save the world rather than him trying to save Dean.

 

So my interpretation of these spoilers went in an entirely different direction... which ironically lead to a well trodden path... Sam thinks he knows how to fix an apocalypse, because a supernatural influence is telling him how he can fix it, Dean thinks he's wrong, Dean ends up being right about that.

 

And of course Rowena is going to be "more powerful than ever," because unleashing the Darkness wasn't enough. Sam also had to be the cause of Rowena becoming a major player. Great: more stuff to be blamed on Sam. I can't wait. *Le sigh*

 

And if all of this is true, I feel kind of Sorry for Jared. I'm sure he thought season 8 and 9 was going to be interesting, too, until they actually happened and trashed his character. I don't want to have to imagine how he's going to feel if it turns out that I'm right about all of this and Sam is believing a lie which to me is very likely what the writers would consider "surprising." Though not me, because at this point, I believe that Carver thinks Sam is a completely gullible moron with delusions of grandeur who would entirely listen to an evil entity pretending to be a "higher power," and that Carver has forgotten about Sam from season 5 who does believe in God but thinks he "stopped caring a long time ago" and pretty much gotten a ton of proof - including Joshua telling him exactly that and 180 years stuck in the cage with Lucifer - that that's pretty much the case and instead is someone who apparently doesn't learn when it comes to listening to things that are too good to be true. Again. Some more.

 

I hope I'm wrong... but generally...

 

*Looks sheepish* ...But yay, I'm back?

 

Welcome back! *waves enthusiastically*

 

If you're in Japan, stock up on senbei (Japanese crackers), they go good with beer and my husband loves them!  Is there shrimp in this world?  Just checking...depends entirely on if Anya is involved....

 

Anyway, I think S1-4 Sam had a spirituality and prayed everyday. Up until he learned Angels were dicks and God had left the building.  Since Sam is feeling like they have to do something, I can see him resorting to prayer.  But I don't see God in this universe as uncaring.  I think God put them on the plane, saved Cas 3 times, and then 'granted them salvation' per Joshua.  I think the are getting the Job treatment to some extent.  More importantly, I think God is trying to get the universe to sort itself out without the threat of God's judgement or reliance on his involvement.   But the Darkness.....well, I think that needs a few hints for help. So....Sam seems a FAR more likely conduit IMO than Dean for getting intel via visions from God than Dean.  Could it be evil?  Don't know.  I'm tempted to quote Lord of the Rings.  If it's a bad guy, there likely to look more fair and feel more foul.  I trust Sam to know that.  He was never fooled by Rowena, never trusted her a minute.  Except for when under the influence of the Werther Box -- and then it was really just the box coming up with logic he would trust.  So, I don't think Sam is gullible.  I think he HAS learned his lesson. 

 

Willing to wager a bottle of Sake on this?  Like the cheap shit, not the kind that comes with an alcohol spirit.  

 

Now J2 has only read the scripts for the first 4 episodes, but if we were already in 'secrets and lies', I'm pretty sure we wouldn't get 'the boys are united' emphasis. 

 

It's funny, however, that I can almost SEE some of the speeches and who is going to be giving them.  I'm pretty sure Dean will at one point literally say "I'm done with the guilt but this is our mess and we need to fix it."

 

I read a storify version of all the tweets during EP3 ("Bad Seed") filming that used the #ActionAckles hashtag.  https://storify.com/s_verasani/spn11-actionackles

(warning to catrox: this will feed your 'Jensen drives the Impala like a boss' beast...don't say you weren't warned).

 

I picked up on a couple more things:

- Confirmation that the Hawaiian shirt is on Dean because his stunt double had that (I think catrox already mentioned this)

- Handcuffs tied to a table in the MoL bunker.  I'm guessing Rowena. COULD be a feral Cas.  

 

Seems evident to me, they catch up with Rowena (and her blond wig) in EP3 and force her to fix Cas.   

[mertensia]

It may be that God has to go to Sam as he is, ultimately, more of a Christian than Dean.

[DittyDotDot]

First, The brother's united thing: (from the spoilers) "It’s been made clear that the brothers will be working together this season, but don’t expect 100%  smooth sailing." and “... there are going to be bumps in the road, there are going to be differences in opinion. Again, that’s what makes Supernatural so fun, that the boys will come at problems from different angles.” But they're fighting against a huge foe they have to thwart for the greater good, blah blah... so got it... season 5 redux, and the differences of opinion are going to be that Dean's there because he has to fight the evil, but he's angry - and likely not sharing it with Sam - and so this is why he doesn't feel guilty, because well it's not his fault the Darkness is there, it's Sam's so... And one difference of opinion is that Dean isn't going to trust Sam's "visions" - Faith versus humanity - which brings me to...

 

[...]

 

And... "episode 11.02 will 'set Sam on a path, on a story that I think will in some ways be surprising and in some ways I think fans have been waiting for for a long time. It ties back to something kind of in his past...' " Crap. To me, this says Evil Sam or demon Sam or something like that, because those two highlighted things to me plus "in some ways" and “you can’t outrun your past,” = Dark Sam. Hell, I'm 60/40 Sam, and I'm writing demoned Sam in one of my fanfics, because that's where the original story wanted to go but didn't. I feel many fans felt cheated out of where did the "Boy King" of hell story go, and I can see Carver and Dabb thinking "I know, we'll finally give them that story Kripke was going to do in season 3 to 4." Except without the Dean motivation, it's going to make it awful and all about Sam being lost in hubris in thinking he knows how to save the world rather than him trying to save Dean.

 

I don't know if this will make you feel any better, but due to both Jared and Jensen saying Sam and Dean are just Sam and Dean, I'm hoping no one is "evil", "bad", "wrong" or "other". I'm hoping this "not smooth sailing" is a return to the dynamic of the first few seasons where neither Sam nor Dean were right or wrong, just different people with different points of view. Or as I like to call it "banter rather than bicker."

 

And I've been getting a very strong S7 vibe from the spoilers and I know how much you adore S7.

 

Feel better now? I know, of course they're gonna screw it up; they always screw it up. It's SueB's fault, she keeps putting something in my Kool Aid and it's hot here and I'm thirsty and... ;)

[Wynterwolf]

I don't know if this will make you feel any better, but due to both Jared and Jensen saying Sam and Dean are just Sam and Dean, I'm hoping no one is "evil", "bad", "wrong" or "other". I'm hoping this "not smooth sailing" is a return to the dynamic of the first few seasons where neither Sam nor Dean were right or wrong, just different people with different points of view. Or as I like to call it "banter rather than bicker."

 

 

I have all possible body parts crossed for this too.  I feel like I've been waiting for them to get back to this for decades.  I guess time runs differently in this version of Hell.  

[AwesomO4000]

Welcome back! *waves enthusiastically*

 

If you're in Japan, stock up on senbei (Japanese crackers), they go good with beer and my husband loves them!  Is there shrimp in this world?  Just checking...depends entirely on if Anya is involved....

 

Thank you. No, I wasn't in Japan... oops - didn't mean to give that impression. Just had that episode on my mind - probably due to the survival contest. And weirdly I don't even eat shrimp much (I generally don't like the way it's caught with all the bi-catch that often ends up dead : ( ), or even like it as a favorite seafood (being a transplanted Masshole, I much prefer steamed clams, lobster, mussels, scallops, scrod, etc.)... But for some reason I find shrimp chips delicious. Actually they are a good substitute for prawn chips which my husband brought me back from a trip to Malaysia once and which were awesome. Much easier to find shrimp chips than prawn chips though, so shrimp chips it is. And I was in Roatan (Hondurus) again, snorkeling. Took another 1000+ photos.

 

But I don't see God in this universe as uncaring.  I think God put them on the plane, saved Cas 3 times, and then 'granted them salvation' per Joshua.  I think the are getting the Job treatment to some extent.  More importantly, I think God is trying to get the universe to sort itself out without the threat of God's judgement or reliance on his involvement. 

 

I have mixed feelings here since God's "salvation" was short lived for Sam at least. In order to put things right, Sam ended up in the cage soon afterwards and would still be there if not for Dean and Death. Adam is sill there. And God obviously didn't/doesn't care. I'm not sure why God keeps saving Castiel - maybe like Joshua he is sort of a "pet" - but I'm not really feeling the God caring there myself. If He really cared, to me, He'd show up and tell his angels to "cut it out" - it would take a few seconds of his time and fix a whole lot of accidental people death in the SPN universe. Even this Darkness thing seems to be somewhat of his fault, in my opinion, since He decided on a quick fix for the Darkness and put the burden on others - Lucifer, Cain, and ultimately Dean - for keeping it locked up. Wear the freaking mark yourself, God, geesh. You're God. Would it even effect you that much? Just my opinion on that, I realize.

 

But the Darkness.....well, I think that needs a few hints for help. So....Sam seems a FAR more likely conduit IMO than Dean for getting intel via visions from God than Dean.  Could it be evil?  Don't know.  I'm tempted to quote Lord of the Rings.  If it's a bad guy, there likely to look more fair and feel more foul.  I trust Sam to know that.  He was never fooled by Rowena, never trusted her a minute.  Except for when under the influence of the Werther Box -- and then it was really just the box coming up with logic he would trust.  So, I don't think Sam is gullible.  I think he HAS learned his lesson.

 

I'm not sure about Sam seeming a far more likely conduit either. Lucifer was supposedly God's favorite/chosen, too, and look what happened to him. And Sam was chosen to be Lucifer's vessel... his faith played no part in exempting him from that. God's getting them out of the church might have had as much to do with it not being time yet and needing to save Dean - Michael's vessel - and make sure Lucifer didn't get his vessel too early. In other words, the game was going to fast for God's liking, so he gave Sam/Lucifer a handicap reprieve for a bit so that all of the players could be more on an even playing field for the big showdown. And it's selfish of me - since I'm more of an agnostic / potential believer of Karma - but I prefer Sam's faith from season 5 on better. He's been burned (sometimes literally) too often before, and I really don't like the idea that Sam would not be wary of a "higher power" trying to "help" him when so often it has been exactly the opposite or He could've cared less. I guess my point being even if Sam thought these "visions" were a higher power, he still shouldn't necessarily trust it to be actually helpful - like at all - based on his previous experience in this verse, and any not heavy skepticism on Sam's part, to me, would make him gullible at this point. And coming off of Sam's stupidity at the end of last season, this would irk me quite a bit. When is Sam going to get to actually be not stupid again? I'm not sure Carver is going to let him myself... to me, Sam's only gotten  more stupid under his reign. Or maybe clueless is a better word. I think Carver sees Sam as clueless and fairly dimwitted and/or unobservant based on what he has Sam do, and listening to any "higher power" would, for me, fall under this category based on Sam's tons of experience from before.

 

And Sam didn't generally trust Rowena, but he trusted her enough to go after Crowley with her "weapon" to kill him - yeah that worked against Lucifer, too, when Crowley gave you the Colt... If the bad guy sends you to kill someone for them with a weapon, it generally means it may not work and/or there's a huge risk or they would've done it themselves. But of course Sam doesn't question it - and we still don't know if that was Rowena's intention or not with regards to Crowley. So once again, Sam is an unwitting pawn in the real players' game and he just bumbles along not listening to warnings and getting played by everybody and everything (Rowena, Crowley, freakin' Metatron, the Book of the Damned, the Darkness.) Again. Not learning anything. *Sigh* (I'm really waiting for evidence that Carver even respects Sam as a character - so far the evidence is paltry at best for me.)

 

Willing to wager a bottle of Sake on this?  Like the cheap shit, not the kind that comes with an alcohol spirit. 

 

Heh. According to Hubby's accounts - I'm more of a teetotaler, drink on rare occasions kind of gal - I wouldn't wish Sake on someone. A 4-pack of Smirnoff Ice - whichever flavor you'd prefer - is more my style. When I do drink alcohol, I'm a girly drink gal. And I would so love to lose this bet. I so want to see not-stupid Sam again.

 

Now J2 has only read the scripts for the first 4 episodes, but if we were already in 'secrets and lies', I'm pretty sure we wouldn't get 'the boys are united' emphasis.

 

But there's also all of the "bumpy road" and "seeing things differently" stuff in the spoilers as well. The boys were united for a common goal in season 5, too, and even though I enjoyed that season quite a bit, I wouldn't exactly call that "partnership" entirely amicable - and there were a fair amount of secrets also. Sam thought that he was actually working towards earning Dean's trust when really Dean was mostly faking it. It was - for me anyway - actually kind of sad for Sam. Some said that "well Sam should've known better," but back then Sam was very much the forgiving type of all sorts of betrayals, so honestly I could see him not having nearly the clue how long Dean was pissed and distrustful for, and that part of the underlying dynamic - Sam trying so hard to prove himself to Dean and not knowing Dean was mostly going along with the motions and faking it (or why: since Dean never told him the truth) - was kind of sad for me to watch. I wouldn't want a repeat of that dynamic, and the set up here is VERY similar with Sam starting the Darkness again and Dean having pretty much warned him against it all along, but the threat being so big that they pretty much have to work together to fix it anyway.

 

As for the lies - I'm anticipating Sam hiding the "visions" for a while. And Dean not letting on how angry/blamey he is due to immediate crisis. *Sigh*

Edited July 19, 2015 by AwesomO4000

[SueB]

And coming off of Sam's stupidity at the end of last season, this would irk me quite a bit. When is Sam going to get to actually be not stupid again? 

 

Am I the only one who thinks Sam wasn't "stupid" last season?  I think he panicked and he definitely screwed up with the lying to Dean bit IMO (and he did it poorly), but I kinda respect that he just wouldn't accept "bad things happen" as a sufficient reason to not try to cure Dean.

And he had some pretty smart moves:

1) The way they broke Metatron out

2) Shooting Metatron and taking his grace

3) Trapping Rowena with the chains

4) Luring Crowley

5) I personally like the witches bullets -- keep those handy

IMO he did screw up by getting Charlie involved when he couldn't be there to try and protect her.  Not that she's weak, but she was already on the Styne's list and she's only been hunting for a couple of years.  And he was backed into that corner by having to hide it from Dean.  So, that's a screw up. But as Bobby says, they are both guilty of that.  "Standard move" from the Winchester playbook and all.

 

Other bits:

1) No, I knew you were talking about Changing Channels

2) I like COLD sake, not warm but a 6-pack of Smirnoff Ice it is.  I like that too.  Apparently I have a broad pallet.

3) I fully expect Sam to be skeptical of the visions.  

4) I don't think Dean lied to Sam in S5, I think he WANTED to believe, TRIED to believe, but just couldn't do it.  I think that's different than knowing you don't believe and faking it.

5) I'll be disappointed if they lie to each other. That NEVER works out (says Charlie, Cas, and EVERYONE ELSE ON THE PLANET).

[AwesomO4000]

Am I the only one who thinks Sam wasn't "stupid" last season?

 

You have some good points. And I think it was mainly the execution maybe? - and again this would be the writers' fault - that kind of made it look worse, because when Death tells you that really bad stuff is going to happen if the mark is removed, and then explains what that bad is, but you don't happen to mention - even though you have time - that you have people trying to remove the mark at this very moment: could this be a problem? Should I maybe call Cas and stop this? And then when the mark is removed and things look really ominous you say "This is good. Nothing happened." when no, it really isn't (were you not paying attention to what Death just said?) and why would it have to be instantaneous... well then you look a little bit clueless - in my opinion.

 

And again, maybe it might not have looked like such a bad idea and/or potentially stupid that Sam didn't just accept that bad things will happen except that the narrative kept pointing at it again and again with Dean saying "bad things are going to happen if you do this. We shouldn't take the chance." On some occasions I wanted to smack Dean, too. We get it. You're stoic, you're selfless. Give it a rest already. It was all of those ominous shades of season 4 crap that lead me to predict that Sam would indeed cause very bad to happen I think like 5 episodes before it happened.

 

If writers didn't want me to think that Sam was reckless / stupid / clueless or whatever, then - for me anyway - they shouldn't have every other character tell Sam that he is being stupid / reckless / clueless - even the ones that are going along with his plan (Cas, Charlie) - and that bad is going to happen (rather than have maybe a few of the other characters say "you have a point" or "maybe you're right")... and then have that exact bad happen. That's what happened in season 4, too, and it made Sam look like a dupe and that he was totally played by / outsmarted by Ruby. So why would the writers repeat that same pattern unless they wanted me to find that Sam was being reckless again and/or hadn't learned from his previous mistakes?

 

In my opinion, wouldn't it be a nice change of pace if just once when everyone told Sam he was wrong, and he insisted he wasn't, that he was actually right? Just me then? ("Swan Song" doesn't count for me, because actually there Sam was initially wrong, really wrong, and it was only by luck, Dean's determination and loyalty, and my theory of what happened there with Lucifer's pride being his weakness that Sam was able to prevail. Otherwise Sam's plan would have entirely failed.)

 

Maybe this comes from me being a real-time watcher from the beginning, so I've had a lot more time to digest the show and remember the plots / consequences / etc. that I feel this way and these kinds of things seem set up to show how wrong Sam is going to be, everyone tells him how wrong he's going to be... and then he is. (Actually for me season 6 and 7 were a nice reprieve in a lot of ways which is likely why I often enjoy them more than say season 3 and 4).

 

Examples: Season 3 - Sam says he's going to save Dean, they'll find a way. Dean, Ruby, multiple demons, etc. say they won't save Dean. They don't. Season 4 - no explanation needed. Season 5 - Minor victory, but as explained above, somewhat of an example. Season 8 - Benny. Sam saying he can handle the trials. Benny is good. Sam can't handle the trials. I won't even discuss Sam asserting that he was correct in not looking for Dean and abandoning Kevin when everyone else pointed out that he shouldn't have, because why do that to myself. Season 9 - Gadreel. "I wouldn't do that to you." And I'm going to be a complete jerk about it just to drive home how much of a hypocrite I'm going to be (oops spoiler). Gadreel is good in the end, and yes, Sam would and did... worse even. Season 10 - Already covered.

 

I'd be so happy if this pattern wasn't followed again, but so far in the last 3 seasons, the pattern has been fairly consistent - in my opinion anyway.

 

Edited to add: On second reading this post sounds a little ranty... If that is the case, this is reflected only at the writers, not anyone here (quite the opposite for everyone here, actually - you guys make things better). I guess this is the danger of "spoiler overload" after a whole week away - heh. It was just way too much to digest in a "woah really?" way. And the wording of this stuff - with the "they'll be working together, but there will be bumps in the road" and the "they'll be Sam and Dean again" but with an added "ish" from someone in charge (Carver?) that I find disturbing or annoying or both. It's all got my fan radar up looking for the hidden meanings.... and I'm not liking what my instinct is telling me.

 

If anything, you guys are giving me hope.... I might have to drink some of SueB's KoolAid again, but sadly the end of last season and Carver's episode in particular - with all of those Sam-logic plotholes I mentioned above - just beat harshed the KoolAid mellow right out of me.

Edited July 19, 2015 by AwesomO4000

[DittyDotDot]

Am I the only one who thinks Sam wasn't "stupid" last season?  I think he panicked and he definitely screwed up with the lying to Dean bit IMO (and he did it poorly), but I kinda respect that he just wouldn't accept "bad things happen" as a sufficient reason to not try to cure Dean.

 

Nah, I wouldn't use the word stupid either. Foolhardy at times, maybe; impetuous perhaps, but "stupid"? No. Did he make mistakes? Sure. Did I know it wouldn't end well? Sure But, I can't fault Sam for trying to help Dean any more than I blame Dean for stuffing an angel in Sam. In the end, they both were trying to do right by their brother, even if they both kinda went about it wrong.

 

ETA: And when I say wrong, I mean, the lying and subterfuge that went along with the trying to help.

Edited July 19, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[7kstar]

@Awesom04000 But this time, Dean has the fault, blame on him.  He took the mark without knowing what it meant.

 

He killed Death instead of Sam.

 

Sam didn't trust Rowena, but he was desperate to save his brother.  "I can't do this without him" speech was the driving force.

 

Dean's done the same.  Jensen saying he's so done with the guilt.

 

The audience so done with the Blame game.  So if they go there, you won't be the only one ready to stab someone, namely a writer.  Or we could shoot him...perhaps hang him?  I know do all three.  :)

 

It's against my beliefs to harm Carver in person, but I sure could do it in a fanfic....yes I'm evil.  :)

 

So I hope that your predictions are false.  If not we need to figure out a campaign to send to Carver to see if he can get our displeasure.

 

@Sue B,I didn't see Sam as stupid last season but mainly blinded by desperation...the same stuff I've seen Dean wear as well.  At least Carver likes to dish it out to both of them...

Edited July 19, 2015 by 7kstar

[AwesomO4000]

@Awesom04000 But this time, Dean has the fault, blame on him.  He took the mark without knowing what it meant.

 

He killed Death instead of Sam.

 

These are also good points, but I think again it was execution that kind of downplayed this. If they had made more of a point to show Dean being out of control due to the mark rather than mostly looking like he was handling it very well, the vibe would seem more like a shared blame thing to me. However Dean seemed so in control that he had a plan to take care of things - even if that didn't go as he planned, it still showed that Dean was rational and not out of control yet - without using the potentially dangerous spell. He didn't go off the rails after killing Cain as would be expected. He wasn't barfing his guts out due to not killing. He was able to rationally distance himself from the book and not let it influence him, etc. The bottom line is Dean with the mark didn't cause any of the problems that later happened. The problems came from Sam removing the mark - which Dean did not want him to do. So therefor in the way it looked with 1) Dean didn't appear out of control and 2) Dean didn't want the mark removed and said so repeatedly and firmly... in my opinion, tone-wise the writers are taking quite a bit of the blame away from Dean.

 

As for Death, I'm not sure what consequences will come from that, but if they are anywhere close to the consequences to come from Sam allowing the Darkness to be called because he forgot to mention the spell in progress, allowing Rowena to get an extremely powerful and dangerous book and the means to translate it, inadvertently causing Crowley to become... something not good, and despite some good planning, causing Metatron to escape - oh yeah with the demon tablet... I'll be really, really surprised. I have a feeling the consequences won't be anywhere close to similar in scope.

 

Dean's done the same.

At least Carver likes to dish it out to both of them...

 

This is true, but I think writer execution comes into play again. Take the example of Dean doing the same in season 9. The consequence? Yes, Kevin is killed, but the main result was that Gadreel helped Castiel save the world from Metatron. In contrast, Sam trying to do a similar thing for Dean not only lets Metatron escape... it causes all of those other things above as well. WTH? What kind of logic / message is that? What are the writers trying to tell me here?

 

(I'm a scientist here - when similar things done have different results... well I'm gonna look for a reason for it. I can't help it. I'm going to look for some kind of logic, meaning, answer, something. Random shit happening just because is just annoying. And if there is a pattern, I'm gonna pick at it and analyze why it's different from previous patterns with other characters. It's what I do.)

 

The audience so done with the Blame game.  So if they go there, you won't be the only one ready to stab someone, namely a writer.  Or we could shoot him...perhaps hang him?  I know do all three.  :)

It's against my beliefs to harm Carver in person, but I sure could do it in a fanfic....yes I'm evil.  :)

 

If my predictions come true, I will want to read that fanfic... maybe have it one where Carver can be saved by Sam, but if Sam saves him bad will happen to the world, so Sam ... learns his lesson and doesn't.

[7kstar]

Dean's control was cracking and for him it was unacceptable to allow an innocent, Ruby be killed.  Just like Soulless Sam, he in a way caused his death.  How much longer he could stay human, was questionable.  Plus he harmed Cas.  Yes, he didn't kill him, but he was being haunted by it.

 

So I don't see Dean being able to take the blame road without ignoring what he did, and that would mean ignoring Dean's natural traits.  Now that he doesn't have the mark, it will certainly be on his mind.

 

Hmm maybe I'll come up with that fic anyway...well I'll let it simmer and see what pops up.

[SueB]

I think they explicitly said there will be no blaming or pity parties.

[catrox14]

Re Sam's visions and Dean's premonitions.

 

I'm starting to think Sam will have visits from Lucifer again, which is what Dabb is saying with 'something fans have wanted to revisit with Sam' . Especially if the Darkness is what caused Lucifer to go dark side then he might say to Sam well it wasn't really ME that made all this happen it was the Darkness and if you ally with me, we can defeat the Darkness I.E. Lucifer wanting Sam to be his meatsuit again and Lucifer would be a Higher Power and that it would the "unlikely allies" being bandied about. 

 

I think Dean might be getting premonitions of becoming Death if as Dabb says "someone has to be Death". 

 

Or maybe Michael wants Dean to be his meatsuit to help fight the Darkness...again another unlikely ally. 

 

How cool would it be if Dean's "Righteous Man" thing comes around again because that is what might be needed to beat back the Darkness. We get a redux on s5 only with the boys and the Archangels working together.

Edited July 20, 2015 by catrox14

[Omegamom]

I think it would be great if Lucifer-as-Nick reappeared, but Mark Pellegrino is a regular main character in another series right now, sigh. (Mark has political views I really, really disagree with, he's an Objectivist and global warming denialist, but I'd love to see him back on the show cuz he was so damned cool as Lucifer and as Hallucifer. ;-) )

Who else is a possibility?

[catrox14]

I think it would be great if Lucifer-as-Nick reappeared, but Mark Pellegrino is a regular main character in another series right now, sigh. (Mark has political views I really, really disagree with, he's an Objectivist and global warming denialist, but I'd love to see him back on the show cuz he was so damned cool as Lucifer and as Hallucifer. ;-) )

Who else is a possibility?

 

 

 

The Returned was cancelled. But even without him we don't necessarily need Pellegrino back on camera. I was think more along the lines of more Samifer.  They don't need Pellegrino for that. But since his new show was cancelled.....he might be available for a couple of episodes.

[Omegamom]

Caught this on one of the Supernatural reddits:

https://mobile.twitter.com/RealAdamRose/status/622814389138120704

That would be fun!

[catrox14]

OMG OMG OMG! Aaron was great!

[AwesomO4000]

Forgot to address this earlier - my bad in more ways than one:

 

4) I don't think Dean lied to Sam in S5, I think he WANTED to believe, TRIED to believe, but just couldn't do it.  I think that's different than knowing you don't believe and faking it.

5) I'll be disappointed if they lie to each other. That NEVER works out (says Charlie, Cas, and EVERYONE ELSE ON THE PLANET).

 

I agree that Dean generally wanted to believe. I didn't word it well or make myself clear enough in the above post. The lie i was referring to was mainly the lie of omission from "The End." When Dean answered Sam's question of why he changed his mind about them working together again, Dean said "because we keep each other human," but to me that was only half the truth. Based on that answer, Sam was working under the assumption that Dean was ready to come back and so he could focus on showing Dean he could be trusted, but, for me, I really don't think that Dean was ready, so Sam maybe also should've addressed that as well - i.e. give Dean some more space, etc. if he only knew. I thought Dean should've been more straightforward about everything: told Sam the truth about what Zach showed him, told Sam that he wasn't entirely comfortable and might need some more time, space, etc.

 

To me what Dean was "faking" was his being ready to work with Sam again and pretending he was okay with it, not his believing in or wanting to believe in Sam. (The end result being Sam was inadvertently annoying Dean - being hyper vigilant about keeping Dean informed, telling him everything, and generally sticking close to Dean - since Sam didn't know.) And that kind of reared it's ugly head in "Fallen Idols" where Dean perhaps again should've addressed it before it started affecting their work and being potentially dangerous to the case. Sam did learn there that Dean did still have some problems with him and more than Sam was told or suspected, but that for me was not resolved satisfactorily and Dean again didn't speak up, but tried the stuffing down thing - which like the Winchester lying thing that you pointed out - also generally doesn't work out well... so yeah, that was my beef... when Dean did sometimes have snarky outbursts or all of a sudden seem to lose total faith in Sam - like in "Point of No Return" - instead of maybe expecting it, instead Sam was caught off guard by it since he was working from a faulty set of reference points pretty much from the beginning. i.e. "Dean's ready to work with me, so I can focus on gaining his trust back" instead of "Dean's here because we have to fix this. I need to give him time and space until he is comfortable working with me again."

 

And all of this goes to your second point - I definitely don't want any lying either, and for me that includes being completely honest about airing their grievances with each other. No stuffing down / hiding feelings for them to explode later. I want the brothers to start out completely understanding where the other stands so that they are on the same page so they can work together towards solving the problems they have. Because as I saw in season 5, the stuffing that stuff down gets in the way of their job, and I don't want to see a repeat of that drama.

[Aeryn13]

 

And that kind of reared it's ugly head in "Fallen Idols" where Dean perhaps again should've addressed it before it started affecting their work and being potentially dangerous to the case. Sam did learn there that Dean did still have some problems with him and more than Sam was told or suspected, but that for me was not resolved satisfactorily and Dean again didn't speak up,

 

Since at the end of the episode he was told on how HE had to change and how the relationship never worked because of his behaviour, that didn`t surprise me. Just like in the ghost penny episode, Sam decided when he had enough, if Dean was on his time-table or not. So he stuffs it out and when it does come out on occassion regardless, Sam acts wounded and surprised. Sure, someone could tell him that he can stuff HIS penance time-table - and it is certainly something I would do - but it is not really what Dean does. He gets told from everyone and their kitchen sinks when - according to THEIR time-table - he ought to stuff things down. And then later called out on unhealthily dealing and not leaning on others. If it was me, I would have bitch-slapped a long, long, long list of characters on the show.     

 

 

But even without him we don't necessarily need Pellegrino back on camera. I was think more along the lines of more Samifer.

 

For the third time on the show? I would much, much rather see a Michael!Dean for the FIRST time. I know they pretend like Michael doesn`t exist/isn`t in the cage/Dean was never his vessel but he should have actually been the leader of that archangel army when they defeated the darkness, God`s second-in-command. That was his position in heaven. Lucifer just was the better-loved baby.

 

So it would make story-sense for Michael to be brought back. Then again, if Michael contacted Sam of all people, it would also make me wanna throw things. As if it wasn`t enough to kick Dean out of that mytharc in the most humiliating way possible, last thing I want is a re-do where they hand it to Sam and of course, he gets to be the other archangel and save the world as Dean looking on in awe, kneeling on the ground.    

 

Seeing, as I have no hope for Dean and Michael, I would prefer if they left both him and Lucifer in the cage so at least it doesn`t add even more insult to injury. 

[Diane]

Caught this on one of the Supernatural reddits:

https://mobile.twitter.com/RealAdamRose/status/622814389138120704

That would be fun!

http://tvline.com/2015/07/20/izombie-season-2-adam-rose-premiere-veronica-mars/

[catrox14]

 

So it would make story-sense for Michael to be brought back. Then again, if Michael contacted Sam of all people, it would also make me wanna throw things. As if it wasn`t enough to kick Dean out of that mytharc in the most humiliating way possible, last thing I want is a re-do where they hand it to Sam and of course, he gets to be the other archangel and save the world as Dean looking on in awe, kneeling on the ground.

 

Or even a swerve with Lucifer contacting Dean, which makes more sense than even Michael since Dean is/was actually connected to the Darkness via the Mark. 

 

Ugh. I have so many thoughts about this. Because for me, the MoC was a really cool thing that had meaning, and power. I really do hate that they made it "just a curse that powerful magic removed".  Yes I KNOW the common lore was that it is a curse but I was happy that the show hadn't gone that way until....well they had to remove it for ...Darkness reasons.

 

I'm trying to be optimistic for Dean because for me Dean's MoC adventure was resolved too quickly. It bothered me that Dean didn't really get to make a sacrifice or save mankind from it. He literally had NOTHING to do with it being removed. 

 

Yes it's the flip around of Lucifer Rising with the inadvertent mistake Sam made through his choices but Sam had the opportunity and eventually did save humanity by sacrificing himself in s5. I hope Dean gets that chance too. But I do worry that because Sam got Rowena involved who removed the Mark and resulted in Charlie's death (inadvertent consequence) that Sam will be the one to make the sacrifice again. And that does bother me.  I suppose if s10 had been the end of the line they might have gone ahead and killed Dean in some way or sent him to Oblivion. But they didn't and the resolution felt ....empty ...for me.  So I'm hanging onto the idea that Dean will have something interesting to do, but it's a faint hope.

 

SueB as much as they say there won't be any blame or guilt, I don't see how the boys move on without analyzing what each of them did to get it to that point which is bound to lead to some guilt and blame and shame. It doesn't have to last very long, but if they don't even have like ONE argument about it, that would bother me more.  And truthfully, IMO Dean is going to have to face some consequences for killing Lester.  Even if he was a demon, the rest of the world didn't know that he was. I don't care that he killed Lester, but surely someone does...somewhere? Maybe. I'm still waiting for that other shoe to drop. 

 

Of course, the universe, mankind, Heaven and Hell WILL blame them for the mess.  And there really should be a moment where someone tries to kill Dean over this. And surely there are more Stynes out there.  I don't think they will go after Sam because that already happened in Dark Side of the Moon but then again...I can't rule it out.

http://tvline.com/2015/07/20/izombie-season-2-adam-rose-premiere-veronica-mars/

 

Boo!

[DittyDotDot]

Caught this on one of the Supernatural reddits:

https://mobile.twitter.com/RealAdamRose/status/622814389138120704

That would be fun!

 

http://tvline.com/2015/07/20/izombie-season-2-adam-rose-premiere-veronica-mars/

 

I wondered if that wasn't the case. I don't know why I assumed it was for another show, but the first thing that jumped into my head was he used to be on Veronica Mars, could he be going to iZombie? I would love to see Aaron and his delightful golem return, though.

[Aeryn13]

 

And truthfully, IMO Dean is going to have to face some consequences for killing Lester.  Even if he was a demon, the rest of the world didn't know that he was. I don't care that he killed Lester, but surely someone does...somewhere?

 

Noone ever cared about the literally hundreds of bodies they dropped by now when they knifed them to kill the demons inside  It`s not like law enforcement would know about the possession. That crossroads demons Sam tortured for info in the Season 10 Premiere? To the unknown outsider it would look like a scene right out of Criminal minds where a (sexual) sadist gets his groove on. I think they both killed half the old neighbourhood the Tran`s lived in. 

 

They were on national TV as crime spree killers, curtesy of the Leviathans, and that has been completely dropped. So the only one who should come after Dean for killing Lester is maybe Lester`s wife - with a thank you card. Oh, and Lester could send a thank you as well since Dean killed him without fulfilling the contract, thereby making it null and void, thereby saving Lester from hell, methinks.  

[Omegamom]

http://tvline.com/2015/07/20/izombie-season-2-adam-rose-premiere-veronica-mars/

Well, bummer. It would have been cool. See, they're saying all sorts of people are going to have to come together...so, Angels, demons, the Alpha vamp, Aaron and his golem, the Thules, even the Stynes...have them all make an uneasy alliance. Maybe Metadouche, too, his ass would be on the line.

Oh, oh, oh! And the whole season could be about getting everyone together, and then someone reveals that the only way to stop The Darkness is to remove the supernatural from the world entirely, and everyone goes out in a blaze of glory forcing The Darkness and everything supernatural into another dimension, and, and, and...

Nah. Not gonna happen.

So the only one who should come after Dean for killing Lester is maybe Lester`s wife - with a thank you card. Oh, and Lester could send a thank you as well since Dean killed him without fulfilling the contract, thereby making it null and void, thereby saving Lester from hell, methinks.

Yeah, ol' Lester got off easy. Unless, of course, he ends up going to Hell anyway because he tried to get his wife killed, which does seem to be a punishable sin...

[Demented Daisy]

http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2015/07/19/supernatural-stars-preview-season-11-a

 

Interesting tidbits:

 

"I know that there's probably going to be alliances made that probably normally wouldn't be made but for the greater purpose of what we're dealing with might be made," said Jensen. "Obviously I'm not a writer, so I'm just speculating right now.  But I do like the format that we're getting back to, which is the brothers together, not afflicted with anything," he added. "I'm excited about that and what that's going to lead to."

 

 

Yeah, they've never done that before.  [/sarcasm]

 

(Jensen) did reassure us that the return to brotherly partnership doesn't mean that Castiel will be left out in the cold. "Obviously, we've got kind of a secret weapon. Cas has got his mojo back and so it would be foolish not to utilize that friendship and that alliance," he said. "So he'll be there. He'll be very much a part of the show and very much a part of what they're doing."

 

 

So Cas might be acting like Cas again?  That's good to hear.

 

 

The Winchesters will have a lot more on their minds, as Jensen - who will also be directing an episode early in season eleven - told us that they may not know how much time has passed since last season's finale. "The way it's going to seem is a direct pickup," he teased. "But then there becomes some questions of, how long were we out? Was it just a few minutes or was it a lot longer? I'll be interested to see how that plays out."

 

 

Wait... what?  How much longer is "a lot longer"?  I don't have high hopes.  Just, please, don't turn Sam and Dean into Ichabod Cranes.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Demented Daisy

[AwesomO4000]

Wait... what?  How much longer is "a lot longer"?  I don't have high hopes.  Just, please, don't turn Sam and Dean into Ichabod Cranes.

 

Heh. Based on the budget, if something like that happened, the "future" would somehow still look remarkably like 2015-16.

 

For me it might be more interesting if Sam and Dean were sent "sideways" * or backwards. ** Often when the boys are subjected to a time jump, what usually happens is only half interesting and/or the flashbacks focus on the stuff I could care less about (Amelia) or if we get them at all except maybe occasionally (Dean in hell, the Sam/Ruby origins, Soulless Sam, Sam looking for demon Dean, demon Dean), or if they are (somewhat) interesting (Purgatory), the story that comes from them isn't as interesting (the Cas/Dean melodrama). In other words, I generally don't like time jumps anyway, and I'm not crazy about this show's track record with them either.

 

* For example, if they somehow got sent to Zachariah's 2014-verse (that type of "future" would be doable).

** Someone should write a fanfic on them getting sent backwards, maybe meeting their earlier selves and/or trying to fix stuff and either messing it up more or it somehow still happening... or not. Would the new future be worse? (Hard to imagine, but potentially possible).

[Wynterwolf]

Okay, here we go...

 

The Darkness has been cast.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Wynterwolf

[catrox14]

Did you hear that sound? That was the sound of my eyes rolling out of my head onto the floor.  Sigh. Not gonna lie, I hate this choice.  Why, show? Why can't the Darkness just be this THING that exists....a state of being etc.  Blah.

 

Now I loved Ruthie Connell as Rowena but she had her own reasons for doing what she did.  But this? It's uninspired IMO. She might be a great actress but I wish they didn't go this route. 

 

From the scenes from the 3rd episode we are in the 21st century at least.  Now we could have the first two episodes be in a different timeline