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Spoilers With Speculation


SueB
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Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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(edited)

So Dean shoots the gun in the bunker.  When he said he was going to make everyone pay who was responsible for Charlie's death, is he including Sam?  Does he shoot him to kill or just shoot him in the leg to stop him from following? It's possible he's shooting someone else but I don't know who else is in the bunker and I don't expect him to shoot Cas. 

Edited by SueB
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(edited)

That doesn't sound very encouraging, SueB. And it sounds more like Sam is going to screw up again than help Dean. Also, has the interviewer really watched the show? ...

 

Every season, it seems, the boys take turns saving each other. I don't want to say it's expected that Sam will save him, but … is there a possibility that Sam won't be able to save him? Will somebody else have to step up to the plate?

 

I'm not sure which show the interviewer is watching, but I generally assume Sam is not going to be able to save Dean. Except for "Time After Time...", I think the last time Sam saved Dean in a big way (not just in a typical hunt) was season 1 in "Faith." He couldn't in season 3, or season 4, or season 8, or season 9, etc.... If Sam does save Dean, that to me will be the surprise.

 

And Jensen's answer to that above question was not encouraging...

 

Catrox, you promised me that Jensen liked the finale and that he wouldn't be happy about a finale that was crappy for Sam's character... Is Jensen going to let me down here? Charlie getting killed - and the likely Sam getting blamed - is already bad enough. Please tell me it's not going to get worse. Lie if you have to. I'll take that right now. Seriously, I'll take anything.

Edited by AwesomO4000
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So Dean shoots the gun in the bunker.  When he said he was going to make everyone pay who was responsible for Charlie's death, is he including Sam?  Does he shoot him to kill or just shoot him in the leg to stop him from following? It's possible he's shooting someone else but I don't know who else is in the bunker and I don't expect him to shoot Cas.

 

It could be Crowley too.

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Catrox, you promised me that Jensen liked the finale and that he wouldn't be happy about a finale that was crappy for Sam's character... Is Jensen going to let me down here? Charlie getting killed - and the likely Sam getting blamed - is already bad enough. Please tell me it's not going to get worse. Lie if you have to. I'll take that right now. Seriously, I'll take anything.

 

Did I promise that? I don't think that was me. LOL.  It doesn't sound like me.  But if it was me....sorry? :(.

 

I'll give you illusion spell, Cas resurrecting Charlie, Charlie figured out the Codex and it frees Dean of the Mark and that means Sam was right even if the price was heavy??? 

 

And to be fair, Sam didn't get Charlie killed. That was on the Steins. Charlie left the lair of her own accord which was short sighted.

 

Is that helping?

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Did I promise that? I don't think that was me. LOL.  It doesn't sound like me.  But if it was me....sorry? :(.

 

Okay maybe "promise" is a strong word... but it was close, sort of a really strong assurance on account of you assuring me that Jensen was really protective of Jared and Sam as an extension, so he wouldn't say a finale was awesome if it was bad for Sam (is that ringing any bells? If not, maybe it wasn't you?)

 

 

Is that helping?

 

Yes, I think it is... ::puts on Dean brave face::

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(edited)

Okay maybe "promise" is a strong word... but it was close, sort of a really strong assurance on account of you assuring me that Jensen was really protective of Jared and Sam as an extension, so he wouldn't say a finale was awesome if it was bad for Sam (is that ringing any bells? If not, maybe it wasn't you?)

Yes, I think it is... ::puts on Dean brave face::

It was me. I did it.

So, I think it's possible they left open Charlie not actually dying but we won't see Cas resurrecting her and taking her to Canada or someplace until next season. The hunter funeral being a fake out for the Stynes.

I think Dean goes into stone cold killer mode, Sam uses a spell (from Charlie's help) to stop Dean, but somehow Death's involvement helps. Maybe he takes Dean to Purgatory to run free in the forest killing monsters. I could see Jensen liking that story. And I think Sam's actions will look rational when we see Dean lose it next week. Perhaps he even says that Sam had no choice given the mess Dean made by taking on the Mark.

So....I could see how it looks like Sam's actions were the right choice and yet still have Sam in tears at the end.

Edited by SueB
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It was me. I did it.

 

Ah, mystery solved. My bad. I got my media gurus mixed up. Sorry about that, catrox.

 

You guys are the two who bring us the most good stuff on interviews and previews. Sometimes I can't remember who brings us what though. My brain just ain't what it used to be.

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(edited)

 

Perhaps he even says that Sam had no choice given the mess Dean made by taking on the Mark.

 

That would be beyond crappy IMO. Dean holds it together remarkably well - without anyone acknowledging it btw - until Sam`s secret dealings with the book and Charlie`s subsequent death drive him over the edge but lets blame it on Dean for another round and just ignore that Sam sped the process along. Noppe, Sam was right and Dean is the bad one again. God forbid the sainted one isn`t made out to be right and Dean made out to be wrong. Urgh. I would HATE that.

Edited by Aeryn13
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This interview with Misha is from April 15th -- don't know how we missed it.

 

https://variety.com/2015/tv/news/supernatural-season-10-finale-save-dean-1201472869/

 

There’s a moment in the last episode we shot — we’re shooting things out of order so I can’t remember which episode is which, but suffice to say, there’s an episode towards the end of the season when we make a sacrifice that I was thinking, “How are our characters okay with this? This is terrible, what we’re doing. This is disgusting.” [Laughs.] We’re making some serious compromises in order to rescue Dean.

 

 

Well, that sounds like it's going to be fun to watch.

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So the Stynes are not only shits, but sexist shits to boot. Charlie is "the little red haired girl". The men get enhancements (of various types, with a significant look down). And Dean is about to go nuclear on the whole family.

Gee, that sounds familiar.

Who else went nuclear on entire families earlier this season? Yeah, that's an anvil to me.

Oh, yeah, and the preview for next week's episode has Crowley looking over his shoulder, cutting directly to Dean aiming his gun, so my guess is Crowley bites it next episode. I'm tired of the people putting previews together giving broad hints--there were plenty of people who guessed Charlie would die. I, in my naïveté, thought it was a red herring. So, like I said, Crowley is gonna bite it. Bah.

My prediction is that the Stynes are NOT going to be next season's big baddies. Dean is gonna slaughter them and morph into a knight of hell, or worse.

Damn.

I'm hoping that Ruth Connell's "Oh, yes, they went THERE" was about Charlie.

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(edited)

This interview with Misha is from April 15th -- don't know how we missed it.

https://variety.com/2015/tv/news/supernatural-season-10-finale-save-dean-1201472869/

Well, that sounds like it's going to be fun to watch.

There’s a moment in the last episode we shot — we’re shooting things out of order so I can’t remember which episode is which, but suffice to say, there’s an episode towards the end of the season when we make a sacrifice that I was thinking, “How are our characters okay with this? This is terrible, what we’re doing. This is disgusting.” [Laughs.] We’re making some serious compromises in order to rescue Dean.

I hope that's what we just saw last night...? And not MORE stupid things to save Dean.

Ok, ok, I love Dean. Really. And he deserves to be saved. But not like this. And he's the first one to say it and he doesn't want all this death and craziness just for him. It's actually the healthiest and most focused he's been in years! He chose the mark, dumb decision, and now he's paying for it. And he'd happily do so in peace and in his own way, but NO ONE will let him! Grrr

I'm calling it now. Everything Cain said is going to come true. Crowley will die, then Cass will (probably by getting in between two others like in a previous spoiler), then Dean will kill Sam at the finale. He'll rule hell next season, lol. With Rowena ;)

Ok, probably not, but this show is dark and icky and painful just for the sake of being painful. Charlie's dead, so I say kill 'em all! :(

I'd really like to believe that someone (Cass, Crowley, Rowena, anyone) whisked Charlie away to safety and left behind some kind of convincing spell. I don't care how dumb it is, I'd buy it.

Edited by GirlyGeek
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(edited)

Hyper-analyzing the promo.  

It says "Next Wednesday" but it also says "two episodes left".  Looking at the clips, however, I think it's only about "The Prisoner". Bit's I picked up on (not necessarily in order):

- Except for the burial pyre, we only see what appears to be clips of Dean. So I'm thinking Sam is off cracking the code based on the e-mail he got.

- Dean enters a house with a gun that appears to have a silencer on it.  It's long barrel immediately got my attention but the bulge at the end sure looks like a silencer... so that's the angle I'm taking.

- The windows on the doorframe Dean is entering look like it's that house in Shreveport LA where the Stynes were at. So, I'm thinking he's going into Chez Styne, alone, planning on taking out as many as he can -- so he's going in quietly.

- Dean is holding a prison and killing whomever he's conversing with at what I still think is Chez Styne

- I think the whole "Dean is at Chez Styne" is the middle to late in the episode. (based on what I've seen of the clips)

- Dean roughing up a police officer at his own desk.  I suspect this is post funeral pyre, pre-Stynes.  Probably part of his tracking down the Stynes.

- When someone goes thru the glass window, I'm thinking it's Sam based on hair length

- Dean is captured at the Stynes is my guess and taken for "harvesting" - he's got a black gag on when he's attacking the nurse

- Dean clearly escapes that IMO because he's wearing the same shirt in the bunker, bloody, when he aims his gun (this time the 1911).

 

Pure speculation:

- Dean may have gone off to kill the Stynes, done a reasonable amount of damage, and then intends to do SOMETHING to Sam.  I think killing Sam is unreasonable, BUT Dean may rationalize that THEY are poison and that they both need to die. Sort of a murder/suicide thing. (Yikes, SERIOUSLY DARK).  Since Dean can't die, maybe he intends to lock himself in the dungeon and rot there.  IDK.  

- I could see Sam's story being about how to put Dean under control. And I could see him using a spell at the end (with that star tattoo thingy) to stop Dean from shooting him or whatever he's got planned.  Dean was pretty threatening, Sam may feel he has no choice here.

- I suspect Dean at the bunker with the gun is very close to the end of the episode.  

Edited by SueB
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Okay, I walk away for 20 mins, check tumblr and find out the photos are out. I SWEAR I didn't look at these first before my opinions/hyperanalysis of the promo.

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-the-prisoner-preview-images/66861

 

Pics:

- Confirm Sam is still working the Book (with Rowena and Cas)

- Confirms Dean is there for organ harvesting

- Adds: that burial pyre is a long scene. I expect mangst and recrimination.  

- Likely confims: Sam goes thru the window based on Sam's jacket color being blue during the bulk of the episode.

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(edited)

ugh had posted some crack spec of my own that dean was going to be macguyvered in some way. by these sick fucks. i swear they wouldn't mess with deans face would they

I think this is a big fake out

Edited by catrox14
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There are apparently some folks who are very sharp-eyed, or just go through previews frame by frame. ;-)

And some of them Have A Theory about Charlie.

I would LOVE if Charlie is still alive and the audience knows it right away.  I can live with a week of being pissed over her death and then a reveal.  But if they don't show her next week for real and just leave us with the mangst...then still pissed.

 

I also saw a gas can and books there.  Metatron?  I thought he was gone til S11. And I don't think the boys would change her clothes or dump her on the floor like that -- so IF it is Charlie - she's taken by a hostile force.  

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(edited)

There are apparently some folks who are very sharp-eyed, or just go through previews frame by frame. ;-)

And some of them Have A Theory about Charlie.

I'll take it! Oh please oh please. I'm am ridiculously sad still today, and I haven't even had to watch the Dean and Sam man pain over it yet!

Okay, I walk away for 20 mins, check tumblr and find out the photos are out. I SWEAR I didn't look at these first before my opinions/hyperanalysis of the promo.

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-the-prisoner-preview-images/66861

Pics:

- Confirm Sam is still working the Book (with Rowena and Cas)

- Confirms Dean is there for organ harvesting

- Adds: that burial pyre is a long scene. I expect mangst and recrimination.

- Likely confims: Sam goes thru the window based on Sam's jacket color being blue during the bulk of the episode.

Also, picture 17 looks like black eyed Dean (at least to me it does!)

Boy does Sam look sad with a side of guilty in those pics. Dean just looks sad/pissed

Edited by GirlyGeek
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The Stynes are going to learn the hard way that the proper way to deal with the Winchesters is just stay the hell out of their way. Seriously: now they've made them angry and while I'm sure the guys are just trailer trash to the Frankensteins they are very angry destructive trailer trash*. Say goodbye to you precious estate.

*I've said it before, I'll say it again: you find out you've ticked the Winchesters off you leave them a nice fruit basket and a sincere apology and get the Hell out of Dodge.

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Here's a thought:

The Frankensteins are into body parts. Dean has a body part with the MOC on it. After he trashes them with his rampage, they get a wild ass idea to cut his arm off and replace it with one of the arms of the Frankie's. (This could be the "disgusting" thing Misha said they do in the end.). Buuut...of course, since the curse is spiritual, not physical, and the MOC is just a physical manifestation, it reappears on the new arm. And Sam *still* has to do a BOTD spell. Which goes horribly wrong.

I think the LoL is doomed. :-(

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I think the LoL is doomed. :-(

 

Is LoL "Lair of Letters"?  I kind of think it's doomed, too.  But that's because I'm expecting an announcement sometime over the next few months that Season 11 will be the last.  I don't know why I think that.  There's been no hint of it from the writers, cast, or crew.  But it feels like the story is heading to a place where it will be just Sam and Dean on the road again next year, with no Cas, Crowley, Charlie, etc., and no Bunker either, and that feels very Final Season to me.  

 

On the other hand, I've been dead wrong about every prediction I've made this year.  

 

I also want to give a shout out to SueB:  I so appreciate your detailed analyses of the promos and your thoughtful predictions.  So. Much. Fun!!

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I also want to give a shout out to SueB:  I so appreciate your detailed analyses of the promos and your thoughtful predictions.  So. Much. Fun!!

Awwwww... thanks. I eat this stuff up with a spoon (spoilers and details and praise, of course).

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(edited)

I'm still really puzzled by Charlie calling it the Death Star. It's nonsensical comment especially from Charlie. She knows her pop culture. The Death Star does not apply to the LoL. She would have called it the Batcave or some iteration like that. It's not this thing that can destroy everything else that we know of . That's a reason for that IMO and Metatron called it the Death Star last season. It's weird. 

 

The only way I will accept the LoL being destroyed is if Sam and Dean as Legacies decide that the knowledge that is in the bunker is too valuable, dangerous or important for the world to find out about, so they destroy it themselves.  And then that's a choice they make and I accept that choice.  I don't want Dean's home burned down AGAIN without him having some say so in the matter. That's just too cruel for Dean.

 

SWERVE:  Dean takes it upon himself to lure Crowley, Metatron and Rowena into the LoL. He somehow kicks Sam out of the Lair and then destroys the Lair with him and everyone but Sam and Cas in the LoL. Sam thinks Dean is dead, or trapped in it forever as demon because the Mark won't let him die. Then next season it's Sam trying to figure out how to get Dean out of the LoL. And he goes to Lucifer to strike a bargain.

Edited by catrox14
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Here's a thought:

The Frankensteins are into body parts. Dean has a body part with the MOC on it. After he trashes them with his rampage, they get a wild ass idea to cut his arm off and replace it with one of the arms of the Frankie's. (This could be the "disgusting" thing Misha said they do in the end.). Buuut...of course, since the curse is spiritual, not physical, and the MOC is just a physical manifestation, it reappears on the new arm.

 

If that happens and someone gets Dean's arm, I think it might be kind of awesome if Dean's arm - due to the mark - still wants revenge against the Frankensteins and we get an evil hand scenario where the Frankenstein who has the hand gets possessed by the hand and goes around killing other members of the family. Because the mark still wants to kill, but doesn't consider the Frankensteins "worthy."  Ooh or just Dean's arm goes around killing Frankensteins, because they don't have a chance to put it on anyone before it goes all kill-y... because Dean's arm would just be ornery and difficult that way. Either way, I now want to see Dean's arm go on a killing spree, killing Frankensteins. (Spin off miniseries! Each week, there could be a different way the arm finds a new Frankenstein victim. They try to throw it in the ocean, but it gets caught up in a shrimp net, for example, and hitches a rid back. I imagine it would have powers of persuasion so I could see people finding it and being persuaded to send it back to various Frankensteins Of course this makes no sense, but sense-smense: Frankensteins dying horribly - yay!)

 

I know. I'm twisted, but somehow to me this would be awesome. (Now I can hear Willow in my head saying "you didn't happen to do a whole bunch of drugs, did you?" It's a good thing I don't do drugs, because my brain is a freaky enough place already. Heh.)

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(edited)

 

evil hand

Lindsey!  The character must be named Lindsey and drive a red pickup truck!

Edited by SueB
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Just adding two and two together here:

- In Dark Dynasty,  

 

Rowena: As in any struggle between good and evil, balance is required.To cure one curse, Agnes had to know how to inflict another. They live side by side in the magic world. One cannot be without the other. 

Charlie: Sure, sure, uh, like a binary system. 

Well THAT was foreshadowing if ever I saw it.  Plus being a B-L episode, that's what they are brought in for .. mythology bits.  Notice, BTW, she said "cure" not "remove".  

Now add in:

- Sam's, Rowena, & Cas are continuing with the book while Dean is off killing Stynes

- Sam has a tattoo on his left arm (possibly TWO tattoos)

 

Seems obvious as the day is long, Sam's going to enact a curse that involves himself and create a binary system with his brother Dean. Somehow neutralizing the badness of the Mark while binding him to Dean with his own mark (I'm guessing).  So... going way way out on a limb.... The surprise twist is something along the lines that it appears Sam's plan is working but then something really bad happens.  Like: 1) they both die, 2) they both go black-eyed, 3) they both.....fill in the blank. Since it's a cliff-hanger, I think just simple "death" doesn't get the job done.

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Tweets from Asylum 14 (multiple): Jim Michaels confirmed Charlie is truly dead. He and Robbie were opposed but TPTB wouldn't listen.

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I don't believe them. really don't.

 

I do. I think it`s 100 % legit. With the way the show has been written for some time, it`s also completely their style. Kevin was a cutish youngster who was kinda like family. Charlie was a cutish youngster and the "sister they never wanted". It was clear that they`d be killing off a character in parallel and to get Dean to snap. Which other character of that type was left? We haven`t heard from Garth in ages and as such, he wouldn`t have carried the same emotional weight.

 

Their problem in killing off everyone and everything is that it leaves not many people left when they need to sacrifice a certain "type". Charlie was the only one left in her weight class, so to speak. Sheriff Jody is also like family in a way but a) they shipped off the entire teen crowd to her and b) she is a mom-type, not the younger sibling-type and it was completely obvious that in parallel to Kevin, they would kill off the latter.

 

That doesn`t mean that they might not bring her back with some supernatural reason. God knows Bobby comes back once a Season and that is after being killed off. Kevin came back for a guest stint. The same is likely in store for Charlie. But at this point I`m convinced she is dead.    

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(edited)

Twitter news from Asylum#14:

- Misha says we breathe a huge sigh of relief with three mins to go in finale and then everything goes to shit

- Jensen said don't be as nice to Jared as you were to him* because of something Sam does in finale.

*They have separate panels today. Joint panels tomorrow.

Vague-ish: When asked about Cas' character ultimate ending, Misha thinks something sacrificial.

Note to TPTB: Jim Micheals is with them and they are still not behaving. Just saying.....

Edited by SueB
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I'm starting to think when Dean finds out that Cas was lying to him too along with Sam on top of Charlies death assuming it is real, Dean will feel like he has nothing and no one because he'll feel betrayed and alone. l think know he s going to choose to be a demon again and will become the King of Hell.

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So...Sam gets rid of the MoC and this lets Lucifer possess Dean?

I don't think that would work because he still has the anti possession tattoo. I don't think him becoming a demon nullifies that.

Also, Since Dean was Michaels chosen vessel I'm thinking Lucifer can't possess Dean unless Dean says yes.and I can't see any scenario where Dean says yes or that he could be tricked into it. I also don't see what interest Lucifer would have in Dean unless he's a juiced up killing machine which means he'd have to still have the MoC

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I'm starting to think when Dean finds out that Cas was lying to him too along with Sam on top of Charlies death assuming it is real, Dean will feel like he has nothing and no one because he'll feel betrayed and alone. l think know he s going to choose to be a demon again and will become the King of Hell.

 

Complete character assassination if this happens.

 

Dean Winchester choosing to be a demon is not Dean Winchester, IMO.

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Simplistically, if we assume the "huge sigh of relief" is the MoC being gone, then "oh shit" is whatever Biblical-level repercussion that comes from employing the Book of the Damned to get the Mark off.  

Rowena talked about a curse to remove a curse. So Sam's curse may not kick in until that 'oh shit' moment.  So... he becomes Godzilla (i.e. something WORSE than the Father of Murder's heir)?  I think I need a few more bits of info to really nail this down.  These guys are leaking essential elements of info left and right.  They've got another day of panels tomorrow, we'll see if anything comes out.  But tomorrows panels are group panels ... which means they usually behave a little better.  

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Rowena talked about a curse to remove a curse. So Sam's curse may not kick in until that 'oh shit' moment.  So... he becomes Godzilla (i.e. something WORSE than the Father of Murder's heir)?

 

In that case, I don`t see why Jensen would be particularly excited about the Finale. The MOC would be gone without anything really happening with it if you get down to it, Dean would be out of a storyline and right back to being the guilty cheerleader to the seventh million version of "what is wrong with Sam" again. For Dean`s character that would be beyond lame and unexciting. 

 

That is not to say they won`t do the most simplistic version and do just that again but I kinda hope the writing isn`t that assy. Not after the being kicked out of the storyline in Season 5, dropping Purgatory like yesterday`s trash, making him an inconsequential, sidelined nanny during Sam`s trials and cutting Demon Dean short in a lam-o fashion. Could they do it right maybe ONE freaking time in ten years? We`ll see.

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Tumblr tidbits:

- Jared Panel: Sam and Dean fight in finale

- Jared and Jensen both are acting confident that we won't see the ending coming (SueB to J2: Dudes... don't throw down a gauntlet like that)

- J3 Panel (J2 + Jeffery Dean Morgan): Jensen says he has to speak Latin in the finale

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Dean needs a spa vacation .

Ooh, ooh! I own a spa! He can come here! ;)

I'm half thinking of not watching this week and watching the final two together next week. But me thinks I don't have the willpower

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(edited)

What if instead of Lucifer possessing Dean, it's Michael?  We wouldn't see that twist coming.

 

Or how about this:  the boys go through nefarious means to get the mark off, both compromising themselves  and their ideals along the way.  Miracle of miracles!  Whatever means they take works!  Joyous day!  A minute later Supernatural god (in the form of John WInchester) shows up, and he's not amused.  

Edited by Phebemarie
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Tumblr tidbits:

- Jared Panel: Sam and Dean fight in finale

- Jared and Jensen both are acting confident that we won't see the ending coming (SueB to J2: Dudes... don't throw down a gauntlet like that)

- J3 Panel (J2 + Jeffery Dean Morgan): Jensen says he has to speak Latin in the finale

It may kick them in the ass if they threw the gauntlet down and we all see it coming a mile away.  I hope they are right.  I also hope that Jensen's hints  and some of the stuff he said is true.

 

One of his interviews posted above and I forget which one, stated something to the effect that they are following Kim Manner's advice give them something they don't expect.  He also made it clear this one isn't the boys fighting the big bad together but trying to save the brother that's wrong...and he enjoyed being on the side of what's wrong with Dean vs what's wrong with Sam.

 

So I'm watching to see what they do, but since Charlie's death I'm not longer excited.  I just hope I won't feel as if it is time to give up Supernatural.  I wanted to stick with it to the end, but if they made the mark mean nothing like Demon Dean...I most likely will be out.  So I'm hoping I'll be pleasantly surprised...is that asking for too much????

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