KaveDweller October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 I don't want to delve quite so much into the political analogy. But I do think the showrunners are disregarding their core base of fans and doing so at their peril. And the word I can think of to sum up their reasoning is hubris. It's probably hubris. But we should be fair.....they could just be incompetent. 2 Link to comment
oberon55 October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 I don't want to delve quite so much into the political analogy. But I do think the showrunners are disregarding their core base of fans and doing so at their peril. And the word I can think of to sum up their reasoning is hubris. I think they (and everyone else in hollywood) really do accept the "Moonlighting Curse" as fact. Look at how far they went last year to delay the wedding a grand total of six episodes. Instead of trying to write funny & entertaining episodes about a happy couple they are always coming up with bullshit ways to keep them apart. To me the horrible writing in s6 & mediocre writing in s7 helped them create a self-fulfilling prophecy. They can truthfully say "See every since they got married the ratings have declined" all the while ignoring their own part in the sad way this show & these characters have been mishandled. 4 Link to comment
TWP October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 (edited) It's probably hubris. But we should be fair.....they could just be incompetent. OK, I'll be super fair and say they're just trolling ;-). I think they (and everyone else in hollywood) really do accept the "Moonlighting Curse" as fact. Look at how far they went last year to delay the wedding a grand total of six episodes. Instead of trying to write funny & entertaining episodes about a happy couple they are always coming up with bullshit ways to keep them apart. To me the horrible writing in s6 & mediocre writing in s7 helped them create a self-fulfilling prophecy. They can truthfully say "See every since they got married the ratings have declined" all the while ignoring their own part in the sad way this show & these characters have been mishandled. It fits the pattern of anyone in public life (politicians do it all the time) to put up a "straw man" to blame. The "moonlighting curse" straw man shelters them from thehubris/ineptitude/trolling behavior, or whatever it is that led to their failure. Edited October 20, 2015 by TVWithPity Link to comment
turnitwayup October 20, 2015 Author Share October 20, 2015 Looks like TNT cares more about Castle than ABC. They even updated their promo with Castle in the fairy wings and tiara. Link to comment
verdana October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 (edited) Castle 8.06 "Cool Boys" - promo ABC (legendada) [HD] That one scene with Beckett looking lovingly at Castle? I bet it's the only one in the episode and by the happy look on his face I don't think he's figured out what's wrong yet. Some are speculating she will kiss him there, yeah sure why not, neither one of them seems that bothered about their separation despite all the anvils being thrown. Edited October 20, 2015 by verdana Link to comment
BellyLaughter October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 My first viewing of that made me feel it was from an episode last season?? I do detect a lack of hideous wig.... Link to comment
turnitwayup October 20, 2015 Author Share October 20, 2015 So I was checking imdb and I notice s3, s4, s7 had skipped a week in November. I don't know what s3-4 showed during that week, but I remember it was CMA preview last season. This season it the 1st time the show skips two weeks and usually the repeats are saved for December. Curious to see the ratings since next ep is in 3 weeks and that long of a gap usually happens in March/April. So when the fall break happens there will be 14 eps left in the season and if they start in February then they would end in mid May. But if the new eps start in March like OUAT/AoS did last year then the eps would go past May sweeps. Plus the promo for the next ep was so short it's like the network doesn't care anymore and just letting the season run it's course. They don't ever seem to see to do any promos when I watch the few ABC shows live. If the network continues the no promo in January I wouldn't be surprised if the rating are even lower. Link to comment
TWP October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 (edited) Interesting media play. 1. TVLine gets an exclusive Castle sneak peek last week. 2. TVLine comes out with a glowing review this week. 3. And if the fans don't like it? They are to blame. Tweet with fan-blaming: Matt Mitovich @MattMitovich My review of the best CASTLE of the season (tho those who set out to take issue with things took issue with things) http://tvline.com/2015/10/19/castle-season-8-recap-beckett-moves-out-misses-rick/ They're going with the hubris theme. Matt is just a front line shill they've "paid" through favors to carry it out. Good luck with that. Of course, when panic reigns (as @TVGrimReaper believes it should), their egos are probably the last thing to die ;-). Edited October 20, 2015 by TVWithPity Link to comment
oberon55 October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 In the earlier seasons the subtext & loving looks could be seen as moving them closer together. This season we the audience know that is not what's happening. Beckett has an agenda that will have to be completed before she returns. If the writers are trying to suggest that somehow Castle's actions will get her to abandon her quest & come home they are completely failing with me. All I see is Castle floundering around in a pathetic & clueless way while Beckett watches knowing exactly what he is trying to do. It makes Beckett look worse every week because she won't put him out of his misery one way or the other. 3 Link to comment
Julia October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 Keeping an open line to showrunners on a handful of shows is pretty much a business model for TVLine, and their founder before that, and they've been a designated 'subtext' vendor as long as Castle's been on the air. This is just another day at the office. Link to comment
verdana October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 I saw that tweet from Matt and I also noticed his phrasing at the start of his review about "less carping" and how his opinion would be "shot down by many" and smiled. Link to comment
westwingfan October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 (edited) I saw that tweet from Matt and I also noticed his phrasing at the start of his review about "less carping" and how his opinion would be "shot down by many" and smiled. I think he got a little critical during S7 and was missed off the mailing list for the mid season screeners but he seems to be reconciled now. Castle must still provide TV Line with a lot of business so it's not wise to bite the hand that feeds you, just look at the number of comments the S8 articles have received, so the actual clicks are probably quite impressive. Edited October 20, 2015 by westwingfan Link to comment
verdana October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 All I see is Castle floundering around in a pathetic & clueless way while Beckett watches knowing exactly what he is trying to do. It makes Beckett look worse every week because she won't put him out of his misery one way or the other. That's exactly the impression I get, I've seen it said that after 8.05 things appear more promising because the message delivered by the writers over the shirt sniffing incident was that the penny has finally dropped that she still loves and desires him so he can move on to start figuring out what's really wrong in the next episode. I'm willing to bet my house he'll be as clueless as ever, he'll probably end up asking Slaughter what he's doing wrong since he's asked everyone else either that or they'll ignore the whole thing altogether. 1 Link to comment
KaveDweller October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 I think he got a little critical during S7 and was missed off the mailing list for the mid season screeners but he seems to be reconciled now. Castle must still provide TV Line with a lot of business so it's not wise to bite the hand that feeds you, just look at the number of comments the S8 articles have received, so the actual clicks are probably quite impressive. Just because someone liked the episode doesn't mean that they are just kissing up to ABC. Or that they are mindless people to dumb to see (and I say that as someone who didn't like the episode). People have different opinions. TV Line definitely plays nice with ABC/Castle, but Matt has published negative reviews sometimes or asks slightly more difficult interview questions and I've never seen him miss getting screeners when everyone else did. ABC sends screeners to everyone. He's not going to full on attack them or anything, but he comes off pretty fair to me. I think he's not super invested in the romance so that makes it easier to enjoy things this season. 2 Link to comment
TWP October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 Just because someone liked the episode doesn't mean that they are just kissing up to ABC. Or that they are mindless people to dumb to see (and I say that as someone who didn't like the episode). People have different opinions. TV Line definitely plays nice with ABC/Castle, but Matt has published negative reviews sometimes or asks slightly more difficult interview questions and I've never seen him miss getting screeners when everyone else did. ABC sends screeners to everyone. He's not going to full on attack them or anything, but he comes off pretty fair to me. I think he's not super invested in the romance so that makes it easier to enjoy things this season. I was just making a connection between an exclusive sneak peak and a glowing review. It was kissing up, but it was also payback. The sneak peek was exclusive. See the yellow text above the video It's very typical in PR to do this kind of thing. I've rarely seen it quite so blatant. Link to comment
KaveDweller October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 I was just making a connection between an exclusive sneak peak and a glowing review. It was kissing up, but it was also payback. The sneak peek was exclusive. See the yellow text above the video It's very typical in PR to do this kind of thing. I've rarely seen it quite so blatant. I know you were making a connection, and I know it's typical PR. But I was disagreeing and saying it's possible the review wasn't just payback and he really meant it. It's possible he didn't mean it too. But the point is we don't know. I'm just tired of the attitude that anyone who says anything positive about this season must be lying and/or stupid. TV Line gets exclusive sneak peeks of Castle all the time. Sometimes they follow with good reviews and sometimes they give bad ones. None of that is new. Link to comment
pennben October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 (edited) Just because someone liked the episode doesn't mean that they are just kissing up to ABC. Or that they are mindless people too dumb to see (and I say that as someone who didn't like the episode). People have different opinions....... I think he's not super invested in the romance so that makes it easier to enjoy things this season. I agree with both of your comments on this. Tvline and Matt getting an exclusive sneak peak now and then is ordinary operating procedure in the last few years. I assume because he is one of just a few remaining national critics that write about the show almost every week (with both good and bad reviews). I think your last sentence hits the nail on the head as to whether anyone will like any episode this season prior to the reunion between Castle/Beckett. As one not overly invested in their relationship being a happy together all the time relationship, I have truly enjoyed this season much more than last year. The writers have brought back the fun that I feel was lacking in the last season or so of the show. Do I like that they broke them up? No, but I do like episodes as a whole more now. I can understand, however, if a fan was into this show primarily for the relationship, they'd not be able to see past the breakup in any episode they watch. As you said, folks have different opinions. Edited October 20, 2015 by pennben 2 Link to comment
TWP October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 (edited) I know you were making a connection, and I know it's typical PR. But I was disagreeing and saying it's possible the review wasn't just payback and he really meant it. It's possible he didn't mean it too. But the point is we don't know. I'm just tired of the attitude that anyone who says anything positive about this season must be lying and/or stupid. TV Line gets exclusive sneak peeks of Castle all the time. Sometimes they follow with good reviews and sometimes they give bad ones. None of that is new. I think you're putting words in my mouth. I would appreciate if you stop. I was making connections about a PR guy. His whole world is quid pro quo. When that is the case, and seeing his exclusive, I have no choice but to believe his highly friendly review was a result of that. I wonder if there's a clear pattern elsewhere. Maybe when his reviews are friendly, it's always payback. For me, there was a clear connection. For you there wasn't. Agree to disagree. I was not saying for a minute that anyone who says anything positive is either stupid or lying. I have never said that ever. Personally I get tired of people piling on each others' opinions on message boards. Here's where you block me: Forums\My control panel\Settings\'Ignore'Preferences. Thank you. Edited October 20, 2015 by TVWithPity Link to comment
WendyCR72 October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 Let's stop with second guessing the motives and feelings of our fellow posters. Link to comment
KaveDweller October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 (edited) Nevermind. Edited October 21, 2015 by KaveDweller Link to comment
Julia October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 Edited: Sorry Wendy, I responded before seeing your post. Perhaps edit a bit more, then? Link to comment
MaryM47 October 20, 2015 Share October 20, 2015 From Ask Matt at tvinsider.com: Is Castle's Daughter Too Precocious? Question: How long is Wesley Crusher, I mean Alexis Castle, going to be front and center on Castle? It's really amazing how she has just the right skills at just the right time, even though she's surrounded by experts in their fields. Please tell me she's going back to Starfleet Academy...oops, Columbia soon. — Marie Matt Roush: No comment, except that it's almost a relief to field a Castle complaint that isn't about the split between the two leads. 1 Link to comment
verdana October 21, 2015 Share October 21, 2015 (edited) Matt Roush: No comment, except that it's almost a relief to field a Castle complaint that isn't about the split between the two leads. Heh poor Matt. Question: How long is Wesley Crusher, I mean Alexis Castle, going to be front and center on Castle? It's really amazing how she has just the right skills at just the right time, even though she's surrounded by experts in their fields. Please tell me she's going back to Starfleet Academy...oops, Columbia soon. — Marie Admittedly she wasn't in this week's episode that much but I fear there will more to come of Alexis PI in the future with her superior sleuthing skills. They've found a niche for her now and Alexis PI seems here to stay. Edited October 21, 2015 by verdana Link to comment
tljgator October 21, 2015 Share October 21, 2015 Not specific only to Castle, but I'm intrigued by Nielsen's new system for measuring viewership that's in the pipeline and I'm wondering how networks will use this in their renewal considerations, etc. (I gave up on the show a few episodes ago, but not the great conversations here *g*). Link to comment
oberon55 October 21, 2015 Share October 21, 2015 Not specific only to Castle, but I'm intrigued by Nielsen's new system for measuring viewership that's in the pipeline and I'm wondering how networks will use this in their renewal considerations, etc. (I gave up on the show a few episodes ago, but not the great conversations here *g*). Quote from article. When Nielsen's SDK is installed on apps and software, the company is alerted when any machine accesses video content. Nielsen then aggregates the device IDs and passes them along to Facebook, which has 180 million device IDs and uses a "blind match," per Clarken, to attach age and gender and sends that data back to Nielsen. (Users can opt out on their respective devices.) This is scary that Facebook has 180 million device IDs that can be accessed to identify who you are & what you are doing. I'm sure Nielson is not the only one using this. Link to comment
femmefan1946 October 21, 2015 Share October 21, 2015 Well, now we know what Locksat is up to. Kate can go home. 1 Link to comment
Sonik Tooth October 21, 2015 Share October 21, 2015 Interesting read. Love the dashboards ;-). But seriously, assuming that Nielsen probably picked a broadcast show to present that actually had some growth in the digital and VOD categories, this doesn’t strike me as enlightening as it is advertised. I don’t know exactly how big the average drop in overall viewers and demo was last season across all networks (I think Spoiler TV had the numbers but I can’t find them). But those percentage gained by measuring all platforms may only help to restore some numbers from the 13/14 season. The possibilities are just too diverse. There are too many TV shows available (old and new) and you have to really hit a nerve to get viewers like The Walking Dead or Empire. My friends and I for example spend a lot of “TV time” going down the nostalgia road of old 2000 shows (thanks to Netflix and Amazon) and therefore ignoring new programming content. 1 Link to comment
verdana October 21, 2015 Share October 21, 2015 (edited) Castle Vital Scenes @BecklebeeCastle 2h2 hours ago #Castle Goes Back to The Future https://youtu.be/bMhO0tAoydQ Published on 21 Oct 2015 Today is officially Back to the Future Day! ABC is celebrating Back to the Future Day with your favorite ABC show characters referencing the iconic film - see Emma Swan attempt to explain who Marty McFly is to Captain Hook, a DeLorean scene from Mistresses, and more! Edited October 21, 2015 by verdana Link to comment
Cyranetta October 21, 2015 Share October 21, 2015 One thing I wondered about -- why the choice of the pseudo-honeymoon ep for the sole rerun before November sweeps? It's so out of place within the current arc and almost seems like a taunt -- "Remember when they were together? Too bad about that..." Who decides on reruns, anyway? Showrunner or ABC programming exec staff or some sort of lost Babylon 5 technowizard? Link to comment
MaryM47 October 21, 2015 Share October 21, 2015 Let the Games begin again (from tvline.com): This is one killer blind item, folks.I’m hearing an established drama series that gets a fair amount of love on TVLine is set to whack its co-lead this season, so it’s time to start clutching your Grandma’s pearls.Details are super sketchy, but rumor has it the fatal twist is set to occur in this hour-long show’s forthcoming fall finale. Meanwhile, there are conflicting accounts as to whether the death will actually stick. Given the importance this particular character has to the series, it’s tough to imagine that it would. But in this Will Gardner-offing, McDreamy-snuffing TV world we live in now, I suppose anything is possible.This much appears certain: The episode in question will leave viewers with the very real impression that this fan favorite is a goner. Link to comment
verdana October 21, 2015 Share October 21, 2015 Spoiler pic #Castle 8x09 twitted by prop guy Rob Kyker (call #1 is Castle or Nathan, #2 is Beckett or Stana) Rob has apparently got rid of the picture now. I agree with the blogger that the hidden word is stethoscope. Link to comment
MaryM47 October 21, 2015 Share October 21, 2015 *heads out on a ice cream run* Well, maaaybe this is the big shift TPTB have spoken of, and she fakes her death to save Castle or trick the bad guys, or who knows, giving us the joyous, Always-level reunion we've been told to expect as the big payoff for all the crap they are putting us through. Link to comment
BellyLaughter October 21, 2015 Share October 21, 2015 Bless Ausiello and his blind items.... Popcorn at the ready! Link to comment
verdana October 21, 2015 Share October 21, 2015 (edited) Heh. I prefer wine, I'll bring a few bottles. tolykay@Natefillion brings toys to set and everyone plays with them. @seamuspatrickdeaver #SeamusIsNotTheToy #PrettyHands #DontFall #Castle #BTS https://instagram.com/p/9GzIe3HNLp/ Here's the link to that TV Line Blind Item, if any one wants to have fun reading the comments. Edited October 21, 2015 by verdana Link to comment
BellyLaughter October 21, 2015 Share October 21, 2015 I guess this was the 'fun' they keep referring to. 1 Link to comment
Julia October 21, 2015 Share October 21, 2015 (edited) Let the Games begin again (from tvline.com): Oh, that'll be interesting. Mostly because when everyone discovers to their shock and amazement that people were tuning in for the ship and not for the aging cult hero I'm going to really enjoy it. Edited October 21, 2015 by Julia Link to comment
FlickerToAFlame October 21, 2015 Share October 21, 2015 Oh TV Line, keep doing you. Antagonistic you. I doubt it's Castle, because would they really do two Castle blind items in a row? And if it is Castle, it can't be permanent. Probably Beckett faking her death to keep the world safe, as is her job. Or Castle could be thought to be dead, leaving Beckett to feel she's at fault. Either way, I don't think anyone on Castle is dying for long (if at all). 1 Link to comment
CastleSeason8 October 21, 2015 Share October 21, 2015 Oh TV Line, keep doing you. Antagonistic you. I doubt it's Castle, because would they really do two Castle blind items in a row? And if it is Castle, it can't be permanent. Probably Beckett faking her death to keep the world safe, as is her job. Or Castle could be thought to be dead, leaving Beckett to feel she's at fault. Either way, I don't think anyone on Castle is dying for long (if at all). I do hope ur right. I wouldnt put anything past these guys now tho. Link to comment
oberon55 October 21, 2015 Share October 21, 2015 Unless this public defender we heard about is only in like one episode before the break it can't be Beckett. It's hard as hell to be a foil to a dead person. 1 Link to comment
FlickerToAFlame October 21, 2015 Share October 21, 2015 Great point, Oberon. What shows could the BI be then? Maybe Nashville (Hayden is known to be taking time off for post pardum depression, but does that show have co-leads?). Or Scandal. Or TVD. Link to comment
KaveDweller October 21, 2015 Share October 21, 2015 Also, according to that thing the prop guy tweeted, Stana's in quite a few scenes in episode 9. Link to comment
Chado October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 Am I the only person who doesn't care at all about the TVLine 'spoiler'? If it is Castle, it will 100% be Beckett. And it will only be for the duration of the 2-3 month break, so whatever, means nothing. Link to comment
BellyLaughter October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 Not wanting to completely insult Christine Roum - but if you were gonna do something like "kill off" one of your most beloved characters would she get the assignment?? In sure AH would want his name up in lights for a twist like that - you know - given how fun it would be.... Link to comment
turnitwayup October 22, 2015 Author Share October 22, 2015 One thing I wondered about -- why the choice of the pseudo-honeymoon ep for the sole rerun before November sweeps? It's so out of place within the current arc and almost seems like a taunt -- "Remember when they were together? Too bad about that..." Who decides on reruns, anyway? Showrunner or ABC programming exec staff or some sort of lost Babylon 5 technowizard? Ikr? It's such an odd choice but it's one of TPW eps and Dead from New York was kept for reruns since I didn't show up on at TNT a few weeks ago. Don't know it I, Witness was kept but even that would made a lottle more sense since this is the season long PI arc. Link to comment
Chado October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 Not wanting to completely insult Christine Roum - but if you were gonna do something like "kill off" one of your most beloved characters would she get the assignment?? In sure AH would want his name up in lights for a twist like that - you know - given how fun it would be.... It will be Beckett, but it won't be permanent. It will just be something that 'happens' over the 2-3 months break. The fact 8x09 is filming in a hospital indicates it is Castle. TVLine are known to lie about the severity of things, so it won't be anything more ludicrous than what we are already being subjected to. Link to comment
McManda October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 (edited) Coming out of lurkdom for the blind item ... I haven't really kept up with the conversation here, so maybe this has been covered but I'm hesitant to say it's Beckett because: 1 - she's almost died twice. Doing it again where they leave it on a cliffhanger of "did she die????!!!" seems like a cop out. It also seems like a risky move, considering the feedback most people have on this season is that they're willing to give it a try but they're less than happy with the way things are going. 2 - Stana's apparently filming for 8x09, which is after the fall finale. I know people are claiming flashbacks, but ... 3 - didn't TVLine already confirm Stana was contracted for all the episodes of the season? There's only so many flashbacks they could do to make that work and seems unlikely, especially if the popular argument is that they're killing Beckett because Stana and Nathan hate each other. (sigh). Unless they bought out her new contract, I guess, but that seems pricey considering they'd have to pay her either way. They could just continue on the way they have this season and not upset the fans any more than they already have and then just be done. 4 - I'd be super angry if, after being fed months of "it's about the love story" and that people "shouldn't worry", Beckett ends up dead for real. I don't like what's happening on the show, but I'm giving it a shot to see. I literally stopped watching Grey's Anatomy mid-episode, and something like that would make do the same to Castle. Anyway, back to lurkdom. I don't really like the general attitude of the fandom toward the season and I find that I enjoy the show more if I don't pay attention to the discussion anymore, mostly because it's because I'm in agreement with a lot of it and it just makes me both angry and sad, at least at this point. The fact 8x09 is filming in a hospital indicates it is Castle. For what it's worth, it's unlikely that anyone would need hospital intake forms (as noted as props on Rob's deleted twitpic) if they were DOA. I don't think them filming in a hospital set is indicative of anything, except that someone is a patient. Could be a witness, an almost-victim, a victim (if they died after arrival), or a core character, but I don't think it implies immediate death. Besides, if they were going to kill Beckett (they're not), IMO it would be in a (spoiler? for 2005 NCIS) spectacular Kate from NCIS fashion, not in a hospital. Edited October 22, 2015 by McManda 3 Link to comment
Blackrock1 October 22, 2015 Share October 22, 2015 Didn't Luke make a bid deal about using his "grandmothers pearls" to make a bracelet for Beckett for the wedding (that never happened)? Killing her off then having her be secretly alive is another way to keep C&B apart on-screen and the "romance" alive via phone and skype while they "work together" (apart) to solve the locksat mystery. Nothing would surprise me at this point. Link to comment
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