Spoilers, Speculation & All Things Media!

[verdana]

Very short Sneak #4.  Is it me, but wasn't this exact scene a script snippet from a previous episode that was either cut or never filmed?  I can't for the life of me remember what episode, but I would have seen it posted on this board.  Or is my Castle brain so traumatized I'm completely making that up?

Here you go, the link.

https://twitter.com/BecklebeeCastle/status/723891994431512576

[rspad]

Rob Hanning tweeted an early draft of a script for Still that had this dialogue in the opening scene, as opposed to what we really got in that episode.

 

Ah, thank you!  I thought I was experiencing the strangest case of deja vu.

 

They are literally recycling scripts at this point.

 

I'm both laughing and sadly shaking my head.  I liked what we got in Still, and am glad we eventually get to see this scene too, but...yeah. 

 

ETA: And thanks to you, Verdana.

Edited April 23, 2016 by rspad

[Thak]

I'm wondering if Lynette Wich left Castle around the same time Andrew and Terri left. Interesting, Andrew Marlowe has the words "Castle creator (in exile)" in his Twitter header.

[westwingfan]

Rob Hanning tweeted an early draft of a script for Still that had this dialogue in the opening scene, as opposed to what we really got in that episode.

 

They are literally recycling scripts at this point.

I've been scratching my head trying to remember where I'd heard that before LOL

[roomtorome]

Kromm:  You think the Dick VanDyke show was "shit"?  Really?  Wow - I loved it - the ensemble cast was terrific, the story lines - funny and also very warm.  

 

I was referring to the 1961 sitcom, not the variety show - if that is what you thought I meant.  But, you are the first person I've seen/read/etc who thought that sitcom was shit - 

 

Oh well - we are all different.  What I miss about some of those old shows like the DvD show, I Love Lucy - all of which I watched after their original airing - was they really had to tell a story, they couldn't resort to the sexual hijinks, etc that came in later sitcoms.  Actually, there were quite a bunch of them - some really awful (I thought the Donna Reed Show was just terrible) but I did and do love both I love Lucy and DvD - 

[femmefan1946]

Because there's are more options like short-term series, it might be more attractive for someone who also wants to be involved with indie films and directing.

A very good point.

If her interests do like behind the camera, she has arrived at the right time for women in the industry. Well, we can only hope.

 

And one thing Stana has going for her as an actor is her face. She's attractive now, but I suspect she will age spectacularly well.

So many actors (any gender) just all look the same. When the director has to dye everyone's hair a different colour or add an interesting beard (or stubble, ick), having a memorable face is a huge asset. Has anyone seen Renee Zwellenger or Deborah Grey since they changed their interesting faces?

[TWP]

And one thing Stana has going for her as an actor is her face. She's attractive now, but I suspect she will age spectacularly well.

So many actors (any gender) just all look the same. When the director has to dye everyone's hair a different colour or add an interesting beard (or stubble, ick), having a memorable face is a huge asset. Has anyone seen Renee Zwellenger or Deborah Grey since they changed their interesting faces?

 

Yes, I think the fact that she has stayed really thin helps with aging.  In fairness to the others you mentioned, Stana also had pretty significant nose work done, and possibly some other work that made her face fairly different, definitely teeth work. However, she had the work before she became more well-known so it was seen as a change for the better rather than a loss of what we were accustomed to seeing.  She has an amazing plastic surgeon, someone with a knack for minimalism. I only hope she doesn't go overboard in the future as some actors do when the work slows down.

[Kromm]

Kromm:  You think the Dick VanDyke show was "shit"?  Really?  Wow - I loved it - the ensemble cast was terrific, the story lines - funny and also very warm.

You're really getting that upset that I don't think Diagnosis Murder is a great show?

 

 

It wasn't high art (frankly it was shit, actually), but then later on Dick was able to work for years doing Diagnosis: Murder.

I dunno. Maybe my sentence structure made you confuse it with The Dick Van Dyke Show (the word "then" perhaps made you think I was changing targets of discussion).  Perhaps the sentence should have been "later on Dick was able to work for years doing Diagnosis: Murder--but it wasn't high art (frankly it was shit, actually)".

Edited April 23, 2016 by Kromm

[Julia]

I dunno. Maybe my sentence structure made you confuse it with The Dick Van Dyke Show (the word "then" perhaps made you think I was changing targets of discussion).  Perhaps the sentence should have been "later on Dick was able to work for years doing Diagnosis: Murder--but it wasn't high art (frankly it was shit, actually)".

 

Yes, I think that would have been better, if that's what you meant to say :)

[roomtorome]

Kromm:  "Diagnosis Murder"?  I never watched that show so I wouldn't have been referring to that.  You said the Dick Van Dyke Show wasn't good - I was referring to the that 1961 show - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054533/?ref_=nv_sr_2- not Diagnosis Murder.  

 

And, you really think I'm getting 'upset' about it - about a television show?  Yeah, I don't get upset about such frivolous things.

 

I was simply asking you a question - that's all.  

 

No need to respond as I'm sure you never the DvD Show.  So, never mind, as they say.

[Annec]

Really doesn't matter one way or the other what NF does. I think the fan base has had it with the BS writing and wimpy ass show runners.

NF can take Funky Firefly and his cronies and  go  away. This ship has sunk.

 

All the best to Stana Katic for giving many great years of  talent to this show.

THIS! The writing this season has been so poor and has clearly been all about setting up a Beckett exit. It seems to have been all about indulging the whims of the new showrunners (I.e. up the gore quotient, lots of talk about "hoochie mama, psycho bitch, and skeezy blond") and limiting Beckett as much as possible. It has made it too easy for fans to walk away. They've had an entire season to complain about the loss of Castle.

[Annec]

I guess it's just going to come down to whether Nathan Fillion can carry a show, which I think is an open question. The successes he's been involved with in the past - OLTL, Two Guys, Desperate Housewives, Buffy - he's been part of an ensemble cast, and not the most prominent player. Shows and movies where he's been the lead haven't done well in the market, although they're well thought of by genre fans. His attempts to float himself for Green Lantern, Ant Man and Avengers 2 didn't really go anywhere (and it's not as if he didn't have at least one person at Marvel, at least, who really likes to work with him).
 
The outlier is Castle, but it's only an outlier if people are actually tuning in to see Nathan Fillion as Castle rather than Nathan Fillion as half of Castle and Beckett. He and whoever is making these decisions at the network apparently think so. I'm not convinced. According to the most recent published information, his Q score is down significantly, from 6th in prime time to a tie for 17th, and he hasn't exactly been holding himself to the standard of physical preservation demanded of female actors.
 
And just speaking for me, I was never particularly in love with Richard Castle, but I thought it was believable that Beckett was. And WADR to Molly and Toks, who seem to be competent young actors in thankless roles, neither of them has shown me anything onscreen that would make me like a character through the eyes of their characters, neither of whom appear to be staggering under the weight of their respect for him anyway.
 
The happy news for people who want the show to go on after Beckett goes into the sub zero (I assume) is that I'm usually wrong about how popular stuff like this is going to be.

Alexis has been insufferable arrogant for seasons. I think the last time I enjoyed her was "Always". Hayley has been very poorly introduced. As I read in an review of "Backstabber", we've been told why we are supposed to like her but we've been shown very little that makes her appealing or her attachment to Rick and Alexis believable.

[ChesterDome]

I have to love all the conspiracy talk with big-bad ABC going after poor Stana.  If I remember correctly, last season Stana signed that she thought she took Beckett as far as she could, and that she felt the show had reached a natural conclusion. Then, she signed on to do a side-project that would interfere with the beginning of s8.  If that wasn't enough, she took a vacation just a short time after that.

So, ABC decided to move on first.  the end, I think the Stana fans are pissed she didn't leave first.  Since she didn't, her team has to make up some narrative that she wasn't treated well and that Nathan is some kind of monster on set.

[FlickerToAFlame]

More from Lynnette Wich:

@ThatsSoAbbyBlog thr are a lot of rumors going arnd and things bing said. I have never tagged him as a sexist. Egotist myb. Powerful yes

@ThatsSoAbbyBlog I know that if N doesn't lk u you're gone. There are also contract negotiations and actors desires and

@ThatsSoAbbyBlog ...future projects in play....

@ThatsSoAbbyBlog it is true that N only wanted to wk wth her 2 days/wk so the writers had to deal with story wise. Count their scenes tgthr

[WendyCR72]

With all due respect to Ms. Wich, we have no idea what her relationship BTS was. Disgruntled worker with a grudge? Not? Either way, I take her word as much as I do the rag sites. Unless it comes from SK's or NF's mouths, it's ALL HEARSAY.

 

And getting rather tired with the tit for tat that seems to have invaded the 'net.

 

Half hoping this show does die so it stops.

 

Signed,

One Cranky Mod

[KaveDweller]

I have to love all the conspiracy talk with big-bad ABC going after poor Stana.  If I remember correctly, last season Stana signed that she thought she took Beckett as far as she could, and that she felt the show had reached a natural conclusion. Then, she signed on to do a side-project that would interfere with the beginning of s8.  If that wasn't enough, she took a vacation just a short time after that.

 

If she said that publicly, I would love a link to an interview. It contradicts what she said in her Deadline interview at the beginning of season 8.  I'm not saying I believe all the conspiracy theories, I just never heard her say anything like that and almost all her interviews end up linked here so I'm surprised I didn't.

 

I still think it sucks that they are going to ruin the love story. I just read an article with Shonda Rhimes about how Scandal's ending after next season because she thinks it's important to have a show go out with a satisfying ending. I don't know if it's true, but if so it sucks that ABC is willing to let Scandal end like that but not the lower-rated Castle.

[CheshireCat]

FlickerToAFlame, on 23 Apr 2016 - 11:33 PM, said:

More from Lynnette Wich:

@ThatsSoAbbyBlog it is true that N only wanted to wk wth her 2 days/wk so the writers had to deal with story wise. Count their scenes tgthr

 

If she wasn't working on the show anymore, how can she be aware of confidential contract details? For negotiations being kept under wraps, there are a lot of people out there who claim to know a lot about those negotiations which go on in private and are kept private/need to know...

[BellyLaughter]

If she said that publicly, I would love a link to an interview. It contradicts what she said in her Deadline interview at the beginning of season 8. I'm not saying I believe all the conspiracy theories, I just never heard her say anything like that and almost all her interviews end up linked here so I'm surprised I didn't.

I still think it sucks that they are going to ruin the love story. I just read an article with Shonda Rhimes about how Scandal's ending after next season because she thinks it's important to have a show go out with a satisfying ending. I don't know if it's true, but if so it sucks that ABC is willing to let Scandal end like that but not the lower-rated Castle.

I'd be surprised if ABC lets go of Scandal - I mean they are prepared to put Castle on life support because their programming is so thin on the ground. Shonda's gonna have a battle on her hands I think!

Not that I don't agree with her about shows going out on top! Such a shame Nathan's changed his tune about that now....

[KaveDweller]

If she wasn't working on the show anymore, how can she be aware of confidential contract details? For negotiations being kept under wraps, there are a lot of people out there who claim to know a lot about those negotiations which go on in private and are kept private/need to know...

 

She might know someone who still works on the set. But even if she's not working on the show anymore, what is she thinking posting stuff like that publicly on Twitter? I can't imagine future employers would want to hire someone they know will leak negative gossip from the show.

 

She needs to say it anonymously like all the other "insiders" out there.

[Beth64]

On the upside, with Stana leaving, I can now quit this show. I don't know how they're going to deal with her exit, but it won't be the same show. These two are pretty good at acting as if they like each other, and I've enjoyed that. Not much compelling anymore for me.

I heard a rumor Sandra Oh is joining the show, but I find that very hard to believe. Has this been confirmed?

[BellyLaughter]

On the upside, with Stana leaving, I can now quit this show. I don't know how they're going to deal with her exit, but it won't be the same show. These two are pretty good at acting as if they like each other, and I've enjoyed that. Not much compelling anymore for me.

I heard a rumor Sandra Oh is joining the show, but I find that very hard to believe. Has this been confirmed?

Geez, Beckett's corpse isn't even cold yet.

[FlickerToAFlame]

Not that it means anything (and it may not have happened this week even) but Marlowe unfollowed Nathan on Twitter.

[BellyLaughter]

I don't think he has followed him for quite a few years and I will always believe that AWM left the show because of the breakdown in his working relationship with Nathan....just didn't think it would get this bad for the show.

[Kromm]

Kromm:  "Diagnosis Murder"?  I never watched that show so I wouldn't have been referring to that.  You said the Dick Van Dyke Show wasn't good - I was referring to the that 1961 show - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054533/?ref_=nv_sr_2- not Diagnosis Murder.  

 

And, you really think I'm getting 'upset' about it - about a television show?  Yeah, I don't get upset about such frivolous things.

 

I was simply asking you a question - that's all.  

 

No need to respond as I'm sure you never the DvD Show.  So, never mind, as they say.

The important thing is that I was referring to Diagnosis Murder.  From the beginning I mean, not simply for the purpose of replying to you. And I have seen the original Dick Van Dyke show. I didn't name check it directly, but my whole point was that it was a hit show, and that he moved onto another hit show--just like Fillion could have done if his reputation now wasn't ruined (as I think it is). 

[BlakesMomma]

If she wasn't working on the show anymore, how can she be aware of confidential contract details? For negotiations being kept under wraps, there are a lot of people out there who claim to know a lot about those negotiations which go on in private and are kept private/need to know...

 

People need to read ALL of the conversations on Twitter with this Lynette Wich.  She clearly doesn't like Nathan, and as was said above, how would she be aware of details on contract negotiations other than rumors she has heard.

 

Someone specifically asked her:

 

Abby ‏@ThatsSoAbbyBlog  10h10 hours ago

@mxooley so the bts gossip is all true then? Nathan's ego and sexism is really to blame? #Castle

 

And note that she very carefully never confirms anything other than the rumored 2 days which she can't know for fact.

 

lynette wich ‏@mxooley  2h2 hours ago

@ThatsSoAbbyBlog it is true that N only wanted to wk wth her 2 days/wk so the writers had to deal with story wise. Count their scenes tgthr

 

And another time:

Abby ‏@ThatsSoAbbyBlog  10h10 hours ago

@mxooley so the bts gossip is all true then? Nathan's ego and sexism is really to blame? #Castle

 

lynette wich

‏@mxooley

@ThatsSoAbbyBlog ...future projects in play....

 

So twice she was asked point blank, and twice she dodged the specific answer.  This person at this point appears to be nothing more than an attention seeker, working her own agenda for whatever reason.  Maybe Nathan didn't smile at her one day and it ticked her off.

Not that it means anything (and it may not have happened this week even) but Marlowe unfollowed Nathan on Twitter.

 

Marlowe hasn't followed Nathan for years.  And Terri STILL follows Nathan.  I really wish people would get their information straight instead of blindly believing those who just throw incorrect things out there as fact.  

[Kromm]

I have to love all the conspiracy talk with big-bad ABC going after poor Stana.  If I remember correctly, last season Stana signed that she thought she took Beckett as far as she could, and that she felt the show had reached a natural conclusion. Then, she signed on to do a side-project that would interfere with the beginning of s8.  If that wasn't enough, she took a vacation just a short time after that.

So, ABC decided to move on first.  the end, I think the Stana fans are pissed she didn't leave first.  Since she didn't, her team has to make up some narrative that she wasn't treated well and that Nathan is some kind of monster on set.

I don't think one excludes the other. Actors talk up side projects and even make statements like the one she made all of the time, and it doesn't mean they really want to leave. It can be posturing for contract negotiation. Or it can be legit worry about keeping a role fresh, but even if it is, that doesn't mean she wanted or expected to be dumped from a show so publicly and unceremoniously, including finding out that being part of the core premise doesn't mean they don't think she's replaceable (they're clearly wrong about that, but being treated like you are replaceable is still going to hurt even if eventually you are proven right that you weren't). But let's say she DID want to leave. ABC is still showing a distinct lack of wisdom in letting the story play out the way it is. Network execs famously have little to no sense of inevitable public reactions that are blatantly obvious to the rest of us. It's almost hilarious how often they're just blind/stupid/wrong. But it's a new level of stupid to look at this situation (Stana leaving) and think the right way is to allow the story to come out like you, the show producers and the network, are just tossing her out like yesterday's garbage, and are already committed to replacing her. This is frankly the biggest misplay of public reaction since CBS and the Kings, on The Good Wife, became such transparent liars about the nightmarish relationship of their stars, and even how they manipulated things to never have them in the same room ever (lying about even the final meeting of the characters and requiring The Internet to call them out on an obvious digital insertion). The point is... just saying this is "conspiracy theories" dismisses the fact that ABC and Castle's current producers knew Stana was leaving, for whatever reason, and have played pretty much every last thing wrong in how they followed up on that. How it got announced and played out to the public. What decisions they've made about the future of the show without her. How they announced THAT part of it. Heck, even little stuff like letting Fillion's team put out the most obvious cold, impersonal tweet about her leaving possible--something that in it's own way came off even worse than if he'd said nothing.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Kromm

[BlakesMomma]

I don't think one excludes the other. Actors talk up side projects and even make statements like the one she made all of the time, and it doesn't mean they really want to leave. It can be posturing for contract negotiation. Or it can be legit worry about keeping a role fresh, but even if it is, that doesn't mean she wanted or expected to be dumped from a show so publicly and unceremoniously, including finding out that being part of the core premise doesn't mean they don't think she's replaceable (they're clearly wrong about that, but being treated like you are replaceable is still going to hurt even if eventually you are proven right that you weren't). But let's say she DID want to leave. ABC is still showing a distinct lack of wisdom in letting the story play out the way it is. Network execs famously have little to no sense of public reactions that are blatantly obvious to the rest of us. It's almost hilarious how often they're just blind/stupid/wrong. But it's a new level of stupid to look at this situation (Stana possibly leaving) and think the right way is to allow the story to come out like you, the network, are just tossing her out like yesterday's garbage, and are already committed to replacing her. This is frankly the biggest misplay of public reaction since the Kings on The Good Wife became such transparent liars about the relationship of their stars, and even how they manipulated things to never have them in the same room ever (lying about even the final meeting of the characters and requiring The Internet to call them out on an obvious digital insertion). The point is... just saying this is "conspiracy theories" dismisses the fact that they knew she was leaving, for whatever reason, and have played pretty much every last thing wrong in how they followed up on that. 

 

But people keep seeming to forget that ABC didn't release this news, it was leaked by someone to Deadline and every article after that took their cue from the Deadline article.  No way ABC wanted this released the way it was and when it was.  My opinion is and continues to be that someone from Stana's camp released this info long before ABC wanted it released.  And if that's true, I really hope that ABC is trying to track that down because this leak didn't do ABC or Nathan any favors.  The only one who comes out of this looking good is Katic.

 

Whatever the reasons, ABC no longer was willing to back her.  If it was BTS issues, then they clearly are backing Fillion or feel he's more bankable.  Or the other rumors out there in some of the articles that Katic was very difficult to deal with in negotiations last year and they just weren't interested in dealing with her and her reps again.  Or she wasn't willing to promote the show in the way ABC wanted with interviews, late night appearances, live tweeting - all the things many ABC show leads do, and they were tired of it.

 

No matter with the reason, the bottom line is ABC was willing to let her walk away.  And I don't believe the budget cut excuse. They don't make these decisions based on nothing. They have research and facts to back their decisions up.  And on top of that, this is a new woman in charge at ABC that was willing to let the female lead of a show walk.  For whatever reason, ABC was no longer interested in keeping Katic.  It's always about money, and ABC clearly didn't think she was worth it.

 

Even Rob Hanning confirmed in a retweet that Nathan and the show runners don't have the power to bring Stana back. And if they don't have the power to bring her back, then they didn't have the power to oust her either.  This all comes down to something between ABC and Katic and it seems abysmal to me that ABC is letting Fillion hang out to dry, unless they feel it helps them in negotiations with him. Which is still abysmal.

[Chado]

• ABC cannot control Stana Katic and her reps (also Tamala) releasing the information before the season ends and creating this environment.
• ABC cannot control the 'leaks' or the intention behind them. Do you even think about where these leaks are coming from?
• ABC did not announce this information, they were informed of the story and had to release a statement because it looks even worse if they say nothing. Learn how media works.
• Nathan has no control over Stana's contract. He can issue his own guidelines (working 2 days a week with her), but he doesn't outrank the people at ABC. ABC has backed him in being able to continue the show without her, that is not Nathan's decision. His desire to continue with or without her is only a reality because ABC want the show to continue on.
• Nathan was going to get slaughtered whether he said something or didn't say something. Stana was leaving regardless, people are emotional. They are looking to point the finger, she's the one leaving, so she gets protected from the public ire.

 

You can debate the common sense of trying to continue a show without Beckett, you can also debate the relationship between the two co-stars...but keep in mind that it takes 2 people to form (and maintain) a relationship. It takes a network to make decisions on a show.

 

This idea that Nathan is this 'big bad guy' and Stana is some defenceless victim in all of this...is honestly pathetic.

 

ABC is the network, they make the decisions. Television shows end, sometimes not how we want. It's the way of the world.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Chado

[BlakesMomma]

It's incredible to me that so many intelligent people are believing "sources" and "insiders" who very clearly have an agenda.  We have two actual named sources, this Lynette Wich who no longer works on the show and we have no idea under what circumstances she left, and the actually still employed Castle costume department guy Stanley Moore who is willing to put his name out there to say the bullying is all BS.  I know which one I believe.  Everything else reported in any article is suspect.

 

• ABC cannot control Stana Katic and her reps (also Tamala) releasing the information before the season ends and creating this environment.
• ABC cannot control the 'leaks' or the intention behind them. Do you even think about where these leaks are coming from?
• ABC did not announce this information, they were informed of the story and had to release a statement because it looks even worse if they say nothing. Learn how media works.
• Nathan has no control over Stana's contract. He can issue his own guidelines (working 2 days a week with her), but he doesn't outrank the people at ABC. ABC has backed him in being able to continue the show without her, that is not Nathan's decision. His desire to continue with or without her is only a reality because ABC want the show to continue on.
• Nathan was going to get slaughtered whether he said something or didn't say something. Stana was leaving regardless, people are emotional. They are looking to point the finger, she's the one leaving, so she gets protected from the public ire.

 

You can debate the common sense of trying to continue a show without Beckett, you can also debate the relationship between the two co-stars...but keep in mind that it takes 2 people to form (and maintain) a relationship. It takes a network to make decisions on a show.

 

This idea that Nathan is this 'big bad guy' and Stana is some defenceless victim in all of this...is honestly pathetic.

 

ABC is the network, they make the decisions. Television shows end, sometimes not how we want. It's the way of the world.

 

 

Agree with you 100%.

Edited April 24, 2016 by BlakesMomma

[FlickerToAFlame]

Actually BlakesMomma, before you insult others' intelligence, maybe don't post a random tweet and attribute it to Lynette Wich. That's a tweet from a completely different person.

Also, regarding the costume designer's comment, wasn't it posted in a comment section where any Joe Smith could put in any name they want? There's no proof that comment is from who it says it is.

[BlakesMomma]

Actually BlakesMomma, before you insult others' intelligence, maybe don't post a random tweet and attribute it to Lynette Wich. That's a tweet from a completely different person.

Also, regarding the costume designer's comment, wasn't it posted in a comment section where any Joe Smith could put in any name they want? There's no proof that comment is from who it says it is.

 

You are correct, I had the wrong tweet and I've edited it. My mistake.  However, my comments on people blindly believing these anonymous sources stands.

 

And in order to post a comment on that Inquisitor article, Stanley Moore had to be logged in to his FB account with his own password.  The FB account is a couple years old so obviously not a new account created just to post a fake name.  And his imdb page confirms that he is currently employed on the show.

Edited April 24, 2016 by BlakesMomma

[FlickerToAFlame]

Ok, thanks for clarifying about Stanley Moore.

Edited April 24, 2016 by FlickerToAFlame

[Kromm]

But people keep seeming to forget that ABC didn't release this news, it was leaked by someone to Deadline and every article after that took their cue from the Deadline article.  No way ABC wanted this released the way it was and when it was.  My opinion is and continues to be that someone from Stana's camp released this info long before ABC wanted it released.  And if that's true, I really hope that ABC is trying to track that down because this leak didn't do ABC or Nathan any favors.  The only one who comes out of this looking good is Katic.

 

Whatever the reasons, ABC no longer was willing to back her.  If it was BTS issues, then they clearly are backing Fillion or feel he's more bankable.  Or the other rumors out there in some of the articles that Katic was very difficult to deal with in negotiations last year and they just weren't interested in dealing with her and her reps again.  Or she wasn't willing to promote the show in the way ABC wanted with interviews, late night appearances, live tweeting - all the things many ABC show leads do, and they were tired of it.

 

No matter with the reason, the bottom line is ABC was willing to let her walk away.  And I don't believe the budget cut excuse. They don't make these decisions based on nothing. They have research and facts to back their decisions up.  And on top of that, this is a new woman in charge at ABC that was willing to let the female lead of a show walk.  For whatever reason, ABC was no longer interested in keeping Katic.  It's always about money, and ABC clearly didn't think she was worth it.

 

Even Rob Hanning confirmed in a retweet that Nathan and the show runners don't have the power to bring Stana back. And if they don't have the power to bring her back, then they didn't have the power to oust her either.  This all comes down to something between ABC and Katic and it seems abysmal to me that ABC is letting Fillion hang out to dry, unless they feel it helps them in negotiations with him. Which is still abysmal.

They didn't HAVE to be the ones to have released the news for this to be their epic P.R. screwup--in fact arguably the biggest part of their fuckup was in not being the ones to do so (and control it).  The moment they let things play out on the set so that it would soon become obvious to everyone she was being booted---followed by them after others leaked it even talking RIGHT AWAY about continuing the show--proved to the Peanut Gallery watching from afar that she was being unceremoniously dumped and that it wasn't simply her voluntarily leaving. Really they needed to end the show. But barring that, they needed to be proactive and control the announcement BEFORE a leak happened. Heck, even getting Stana's active cooperation probably wasn't inherently impossible. They could have done some behind the scenes deal to get her a pilot commitment. There were many ways to play this out and they seemingly did none of them.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Kromm

[BlakesMomma]

They didn't HAVE to be the ones to have released the news for this to be their epic P.R. screwup--in fact arguably the biggest part of their fuckup was in not being the ones to do so (and control it).  The moment they let things play out on the set so that it would soon become obvious to everyone she was being booted---followed by them after others leaked it even talking RIGHT AWAY about continuing the show--proved to the Peanut Gallery watching from afar that she was being unceremoniously dumped and that it wasn't simply her voluntarily leaving. Really they needed to end the show. But barring that, they needed to be proactive and control the announcement BEFORE a leak happened. Heck, even getting Stana's active cooperation probably wasn't inherently impossible. They could have done some behind the scenes deal to get her a pilot commitment. There were many ways to play this out and they seemingly did none of them.

 

But if they were willing to "unceremoniously dump" her as you put it, from one show, why would they possibly want to give her a pilot commitment for another? I would think they would get some kind of non-disclosure from her to not release the info before ABC did, but I guess when you're "dumping" someone, they have no reason to agree.  But you're right, ABC has handled this entire thing horribly.

Edited April 24, 2016 by BlakesMomma

[verdana]

Geez, Beckett's corpse isn't even cold yet.

No but at least her corpse will be an extraordinary one.

 

I'm fully expecting Castle or some random doctor reminding me how amazing she is even in death lol. 

 

Can't wait for the finale, it's going to be gloriously horrible. 

Edited April 24, 2016 by verdana

[TWP]

I think some people are making too big a deal about the career ending nature of these TV show scandals. They all seems so real and important to us, but the people who know or care about them probably make up 0.1 or 0.2 of the demo in ratings.

People with bad relationships with their costars go on to find plenty of work. The fans who are aware of the scandals may even hate-watch, or watch to see the actor screw up again.

But the majority of the fans of these shows don't know or care about off screen relationships in anything but a passing way.

[TWP]

But if they were willing to "unceremoniously dump" her as you put it, from one show, why would they possibly want to give her a pilot commitment for another? I would think they would get some kind of non-disclosure from her to not release the info before ABC did, but I guess when you're "dumping" someone, they have no reason to agree.  But you're right, ABC has handled this entire thing horribly.

Gosh I'd think the network would include verbage in the original NDR signed during contract negotiations to keep things quiet at least for the duration of the season, but I am constantly surprised by the incompetence of TV PTB. Whoever leaked was probably an ally, but not directly involved with Katic. All I know is the leaker is not really helping Stana. With the competition in Hollywood, who wants to hire someone who might potentially leak damaging information about the network or show and completely undermine PR?

[verdana]

Half hoping this show does die so it stops.

 

You are not alone in this, aren't fans already circulating petitions to end the show? There may be weeks before they may make any final statement, think how much dirty gossip and innuendo will have been flung around by then to wade through and you call yourself cranky now...

 

TWP. That nose job was a beauty, she chose her surgeon very well (or got very lucky), the change it made was startling and a massive improvement and yet it looks completely natural unlike other celebs who end up looking like they're a composite of various other people lol.

 

Not that it means anything (and it may not have happened this week even) but Marlowe unfollowed Nathan on Twitter.

 

I got the vibe that Fillion and Marlowe didn't really get on that well at least in the latter years, just odd things here and there. Katic on the other hand seemed to adore him and Terri but then AM was responsible for giving her the fame and career she enjoys, may be she came over as more crawling and endlessly grateful than Fillion so he gravitated naturally towards her.

 

If ABC are intent on carrying on with the show what they need to worry about now is their supporting act around Fillion. The boys should stay but of the 8 episodes I've watched in full the new guest stars plus the over promotion of Alexis into supergirl have been a massive failure. Molly has lost every ounce of charm she once used to magically generate (critically with Fillion) and I find her (Alexis) insufferable in almost every way (and this is coming from someone who adored Alexis util Pi-gate) I have no interest in watching any of them interact with Fillion despite the fact he can usually have chemistry with a tree. I'm not interested enough in them as characters - so if the writers stays at its present mediocre level with the so called laughable character "development" I've seen - then they're got a serious problem because Nathan needs someone to bounce off. 

Edited April 24, 2016 by verdana

[verdana]

Not that I don't agree with her about shows going out on top! Such a shame Nathan's changed his tune about that now...

Or maybe he was bullshitting, stars can flat out lie, it can happen and whilst at the time I thought "good on him" at this point I'm leaning very much towards the bullshit angle. When it comes down to it there are very few stars (or writers/showrunners for that matter) who are genuinely prepared to leave/end something before they're given the push or it gets cancelled because they want to maintain its quality and go out on top with reputation intact (or even enhanced). Same goes for Stana's "for me it’s about art over finance," musings.

 

If the last two seasons have proven anything to me it's that both stars despite their protestations in print at various times over the years were more than happy to shrug, think fuck it and take the pay cheque. This is entirely up to them of course but don't you dare come back with these kind of statements in future and expect me to believe them. Actions speak louder than words in this case and they're taking the money forget the rest. I don't believe for one second either Katic or Fillion believe what they've been doing for the last couple of seasons is enhancing their resume with quality programming. 

 

Oh as for Katic saying the character had already gone as far as it could I don't remember such an interview (not saying there wasn't one but I can't find it easily) but in the same interview I linked to above as of November of S7 she's obviously changed her tune. It's amazing what money and having nothing better in the pipeline can do for your sense of perspective, here's the quote: 

 

TVLINE | Castle has told a pretty complete story at this point, one could argue.

If the character is complete, if there is nowhere else to go creatively, then I think it’s better to stop when you’re on top, because I admire the way that they did that with The Wire, you know? Tell a great story and then go home and move onto something else. Don’t milk it “just because.” So for me it’s about art over finance, and as long as we’re creating something that is compelling and that has somewhere to go, then we’re good to go. And when we find that we’re not, when we don’t have anywhere else to go, then it’s time for everyone to pack up and move onto the next thing. But I don’t know where it’s going to end.

I'd say they've both been milking it for a while "just because" and they know it.

Edited April 24, 2016 by verdana

[Brit Babe]

I've missed all the drama over here, I haven't been able to keep up with it.
 

If she wasn't working on the show anymore, how can she be aware of confidential contract details? For negotiations being kept under wraps, there are a lot of people out there who claim to know a lot about those negotiations which go on in private and are kept private/need to know...

I'm sure she hasn't seen his contract however this clause has had to be carried out in full view of a 100's of people and contrary to what had gone before, so I’m sure the crew asked questions and knows why. I also very much doubt that no one talks and cuts off all contact with former co-workers. Plus, as fans we figured this out ages ago so it’s not a shock, no showrunner would damage a show in later seasons by doing this off their own back.

[TWP]

TWP. That nose job was a beauty, she chose her surgeon very well (or got very lucky), the change it made was startling and a massive improvement and yet it looks completely natural unlike other celebs who end up looking like they're a composite of various other people lol.

Same could be said for Jennifer Gray, and hers coincided with a car accident, but her face lost it's character. If Stana had had great success before the surgery, people may have argued that she destroyed the character in her face too. But yes, the work was tasteful, understated and really made her beautiful.

Here's an interesting video from a very loving fan. NICE! https://youtu.be/Snm0QQBKuwA..

Edited April 24, 2016 by TWP

[verdana]

It's incredible to me that so many intelligent people are believing "sources" and "insiders" who very clearly have an agenda.  We have two actual named sources, this Lynette Wich who no longer works on the show and we have no idea under what circumstances she left, and the actually still employed Castle costume department guy Stanley Moore who is willing to put his name out there to say the bullying is all BS.  I know which one I believe.  Everything else reported in any article is suspect.

I don't necessarily hold more store in the costume guy's tweet than I do in this Lynette Wich.

 

I find both extremes kind of amusing TBH, those who believe every ounce of gossip they can lay their hands on irrespective of the "source" and decide it's fact and those who choose to put their rose coloured goggles on and firmly dismiss the signs of smoke coming up where clearly a fire is brewing.

 

I rarely take what people say at face value and believe it's the honest truth without wondering what's your agenda? Most people have one, even when they deny it. Working within any show like this (or business it's the same thing) I'm sure there's a lot of things going on with competing interests and allegiances that would really open my eyes wide if I was a fly on the wall. I realise this attitude does not reflect well on me and it's overly cynical but I can't help it.  This is what life experience coupled with years of caring about TV shows and certain actors in the past (and then being bitterly disappointed and let down when things all turn to crud) has done to me. 

 

I do believe both stars only wanted to work 2 days a week with each other (not just Fillion throwing his weight around as some stated). I'm not sure where I read that, it's all got lost in the gossip avalanche of recent days but this joint decision directly participated in the show quickly spiralling into the shitter - the lack of regular Castle and Beckett screen time and the writers pathetic attempts to disguise it was a constant problem.  It takes two to tango and Katic by the looks of things was equally happy to spend time away from her co-star for whatever reason, so ultimately both actors appear to have helped contribute somewhat to the show's ultimate downfall but unfortunately for Fillionista's it's Nathan in the dog house. 

 

Since I want to share the blame around (in no particular order) as best I can here goes:

 

• I blame Hawley and Winter for their tone deaf shitty storytelling and lack of respect for the characters MilMar created. I will never forgive them for the separation fiasco and the awful ongoing Locksat borefest. 
• I blame Luke for Castle's shitty grossly unflattering wardrobe, the guy doesn't deserve to be in a job. I could do better.
• I blame some elements of the fanbase for their actions at times on social media which gave the rest of us a bad name and end up with many posters unfairly being labelled as "haters" or "trolls" for daring to have critical opinions on what the show has become and worse keep voicing them.
• I blame MilMar for starting the rot with their "respect the process", taking Beckett "down a peg" (argh!), Rogan and the Hamptons wedding that should have been, in hindsight 6.23 was ultimately the moment the show derailed.  
• I blame the network for their utter greed and obvious desperation, presumably if they hadn't agreed to Katic and Fillion's demands they would have walked which given how bad S8 has been and watching the fall out now of bitterness and recriminations - I fervently wish they had. 

Edited April 24, 2016 by verdana

[Kromm]

I do believe both stars only wanted to work 2 days a week with each other (not just Fillion throwing his weight around as some stated).

I actually find this harder to believe than most suggestions, because them agreeing on a specific designated limited schedule is at odds with the whole idea of two actors who don't agree on anything, period. I more see it probable that a third party (the showrunners, the network or some combo) forced them to an accommodation of 2 days a week and likely neither was all that happy. Logically, if you think about it though, someone always thinks they have the upper hand, and the person who's character name is in the title is more often it. I could easily see their extremes as "I'm not going to work with that B-word again" vs. "I know if we're separate I'll get far less screentime, so I want as much of it as possible". Bicker, bicker, bicker, screaming at the producer, then forced compromise at 2 days per week. So that would technically be something "agreed" on by both, but clearly driven by one of them wanting the other gone and the other not wanting to be sidelined. Again, all guesswork... I'm just saying assuming an agreement means that Fillion didn't TRY and throw his weight around seems less likely to me than him throwing his weight around and not getting what he wanted. At least THAT time (followed by the obvious speculation that maybe this time he did). 

[break21]

I think her PR firm "f"'d it up by playing her as the victim.

 

He's got too many years and too many female co-stars for that mess.

 

I think Castle's over- I don't she did herself any favors.  My opinion.

[break21]

Her mistake was she went against him instead of going against the  network.

[redwing]

I think her PR firm "f"'d it up by playing her as the victim.

 

He's got too many years and too many female co-stars for that mess.

 

I think Castle's over- I don't she did herself any favors.  My opinion.

Sure, but none of them worked with him for 8 years. That's a big difference.

[break21]

I get it, but I just don't see him as a "bully" and I think her PR firm went the wrong way.  My opinion.  If she was bullied she could have went to HR or the network.  Doesn't make any sense to me after she's fired she complains (and I'm a woman and a feminist - I don't like after the fact crap).  He's been 20 years without one complaint, and now he's the bad guy - I don't buy it for one second.

[tshlw]

Look no matter all the BTS and none of us knows the whole truth. I am asking all of us to come together to #SaveCaskett this love story has been the central theme of the show from the beginning and to not see then get their 'Always' would be horrible. So please follow this link and see how you can help. Also pass it on to as many places as you can. https://airbefore.tumblr.com/post/143299919524/savecaskett-campaignThank You

[CheshireCat]

Brit Babe, on 24 Apr 2016 - 05:32 AM, said:

I'm sure she hasn't seen his contract however this clause has had to be carried out in full view of a 100's of people and contrary to what had gone before, so I’m sure the crew asked questions and knows why. I also very much doubt that no one talks and cuts off all contact with former co-workers. Plus, as fans we figured this out ages ago so it’s not a shock, no showrunner would damage a show in later seasons by doing this off their own back.

 

Yes, if they only filmed two days together then it would have been obvious and maybe someone asked. But unless the party responsible told them why it happened then all anyone can do is speculate. I doubt that even the showrunners knew the reason/are aware of reasons. They are probably made aware of contract details which are relevant (the need to know I mentioned in my other post) to filming/their job but I doubt they're aware of the reasons unless they are told by the parties involved. And no one even knew if Fillion had signed a one-year or two-year contract last season. After it was revealed that Katic had signed a one-year extension, people were speculating and assuming that Fillion had done the same but I have never come across any reliable confirmation and heard both, one and two year. And now, all of a sudden, people know something a lot more private and they also know why? For a fact?

 

I'm not ruling out that the two-days-per-week-term was in his or her contract or in both. But I doubt that even ABC knew why because I doubt that he has to state a reason. He probably just states his terms. But even if something is in someone's contract, it doesn't mean that it was their request. There are any number of reasons why, if it was in either one of their contracts, the two-days-per week-term existed. And unless the details of their contracts are ever made public, there is no way to know for sure if it was actually a contract term or simply something which happened due to scheduling reasons or whatever.

[TWP]

I actually find this harder to believe than most suggestions, because them agreeing on a specific designated limited schedule is at odds with the whole idea of two actors who don't agree on anything, period. I more see it probable that a third party (the showrunners, the network or some combo) forced them to an accommodation of 2 days a week and likely neither was all that happy. Logically, if you think about it though, someone always thinks they have the upper hand, and the person who's character name is in the title is more often it. I could easily see their extremes as "I'm not going to work with that B-word again" vs. "I know if we're separate I'll get far less screentime, so I want as much of it as possible". Bicker, bicker, bicker, screaming at the producer, then forced compromise at 2 days per week. So that would technically be something "agreed" on by both, but clearly driven by one of them wanting the other gone and the other not wanting to be sidelined. Again, all guesswork... I'm just saying assuming an agreement means that Fillion didn't TRY and throw his weight around seems less likely to me than him throwing his weight around and not getting what he wanted. At least THAT time (followed by the obvious speculation that maybe this time he did). 

It's also possible that Stana said "I'm not signing because of him".  Then negotiator came back and said, "what if we can arrange to only work together 2 days a week and give you a raise....". Same conversation was held with Nathan.  Maybe the negotiator was the instigator of the two days a week.  Maybe the stars were both going to walk.

 

As someone around here once said, if Nathan had so much power, wouldn't he change the genre of the show?  This is clearly all driven by ABC.  But if you hate Nathan, it's easy to figure it's all his fault.

 

If you were Nathan or Stana and disliked your costar, wouldn't you want to carve a niche that made you happy?  Do you see celebrities dropping like flies?  Life is too short, even for millionaires to be miserable.   Even if Nathan said, "I'm going to walk because I'm not working another second with her" and ABC said, "ho, wait a minute, we'll fire her," it's not his fault.  He wanted to do what's best for himself, before he has that heart attack.  I suspect he was okay with walking.

 

Edit: I also find it really hard to believe that Stana wants to be portrayed as a helpless victim.  But that notion is colored by my own perspective on life.  Maybe she does want that.  I don't think her PR is behind this because it makes her look bad.

Edited April 24, 2016 by TWP