S10.E09: The Things We Left Behind

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I actually watched this last night.  And then I had to fast forward through it tonight to remind myself how it ended.  It was just very...eh...to me.  It's there.  It's an ep.  At least I saw Sam and Dean a bit.  But I don't even remember much about their appearances, except that it was nice to see Sam cook - even it was only a grilled cheese sandwich - for Dean.  

Claire's a typical teenager - and she's actually got reason for her angst, so I can't begrudge her that.  Superficially, her hair distracted me every time she was onscreen.  It was awful.  Even worse than emo-teen awful.   And why the hell would anyone take her back into the house at the end and allow her to witness the carnage?  How about having her wait in the car or outside at the very least.  WTF guys?

[rue721]

This season was going so well! And then THIS episode came along.

I did like one thing in it, though. That record scratch when Cas asked Sam and Dean whether they loved their father. What an inexplicably tense moment!

The CBGB story was such bullshit I could smell it all the way from here, so I can't say much that was good about that scene otherwise. But I did like that one part of it.

I'm torn about Claire because on the one hand, I think the idea of finding out what happens to some of the people who were "left behind" and who have had to find a way to survive in the aftermath of supernatural craziness is actually pretty cool. Especially since Sam and Dean were both "left behind" like that once upon a time, too. And Claire actually does have a legitimate beef, unlike dumbass Cole. But on the other hand...while the IDEA of Claire might be interesting, Claire herself isn't. She can even be pretty likeable, and she becomes more likeable over time. But she's just straight up not interesting. I don't know what it is. Hmmm well, thinking about it now, maybe it's because she's just not that smart.

ETA:  Oh, and it's probably also a problem that she has ZERO sense of humor.

Edited September 25, 2016 by rue721
VERY IMPORTANT things to add. PLEASE READ IMMEDIATELY!!!!1!

[DittyDotDot]

Come on Cass--not only is ketchup a vegetable, but so are fries--don't even pretend you haven't done your research on one of Dean's basic food groups.  ;)

Although there's still About A Boy, Inside Man and The Werther Project, this episode basically marks the end of the good times for S10. It's hard to look back on it fondly for that reason alone, but Claire's hair doesn't help either.

I did notice something I didn't pick up on the first time or I totally forgot about, Dean had a premonitory dream at the start of the episode. Interesting.

I think I need some alcohol before I proceed on to the next couple episodes. 

Edited November 10, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[bettername2come]

I like Castiel trying to do right by Claire and dragging Sam and Dean into it to do it. Sam and Dean should've cared more about Claire when they were initially called. "I was worth five pigs at least." Please, Crowley. She couldn't sell you for three. Claire Novak really is one of the most tragic characters in the show. I liked the first one better, but I don't hate New Claire. "But I'm here now!" Because he captured you, Rowena! I love the Crowley and Rowena dynamic. I think she's my favorite thing about the double digit seasons. I walk a fine line between locing her and loving to hate her. The CBGB story rings true to the early seasons John Winchester. To the guy who just wanted to protect his children. Who would've panicked when he woke up to find his son missing in a city he didn't trust and would've been pissed off at him sneaking out and expected better from him. Dean pulling the "I hate you" stuff seems further off, but I can imagine a drunk/drugged Dean might have been a little quicker to say things he wouldn't have otherwise. Dean unnecessarily killing humans is disturbingly un-Dean, even if he didn't kill innocents.

[Hanahope]

So seemed like a filler episode.  A little bit of story showing that the Mark is still affecting Dean, Crowley's mom is up to something and Jimmy is dead and in heaven (guess he got there when then Leviathans hit?).

Maybe Clair and Crowley can meet up and whine about their abandonment together.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

Dean, Crowley's mom is up to something and Jimmy is dead and in heaven (guess he got there when then Leviathans hit?).

I think Jimmy has been in Heaven since  Lucifer destroyed Cas at the molecular level in S5..  i don't think it's is a vessel any more. I think God gave Cas that body and it's all Cas now.

[Wayward Son]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I think Jimmy has been in Heaven since  Lucifer destroyed Cas at the molecular level in S5..  i don't think it's is a vessel any more. I think God gave Cas that body and it's all Cas now.

I personally believe Jimmy went to heaven when he was killed by Raphael in Lucifer Rising. There is a reference to the doctors believing a depowered Castiel was brain dead when he was brought to hospital in Two Minutes to Midnight. 

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I personally believe Jimmy went to heaven when he was killed by Raphael in Lucifer Rising. There is a reference to the doctors believing a depowered Castiel was brain dead when he was brought to hospital in Two Minutes to Midnight. 

Oh...I don't remember that. I can see that being the case too.

[catrox14]

On 11/10/2016 at 9:53 AM, DittyDotDot said:

Come on Cass--not only is ketchup a vegetable, but so are fries--don't even pretend you haven't done your research on one of Dean's basic food groups.  ;)

Although there's still About A Boy, Inside Man and The Werther Project, this episode basically marks the end of the good times for S10. It's hard to look back on it fondly for that reason alone, but Claire's hair doesn't help either.

I did notice something I didn't pick up on the first time or I totally forgot about, Dean had a premonitory dream at the start of the episode. Interesting.

I think I need some alcohol before I proceed on to the next couple episodes. 

Oh that's interesting to me. I think most of the rest of s10 is pretty great.

Spoiler

Executioner's Song, Book of the Damned, The Prisoner, Brother's Keeper  right to the end LOL

[DittyDotDot]

Moved to the S10 discussion thread...

[Katy M]

53 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I personally believe Jimmy went to heaven when he was killed by Raphael in Lucifer Rising. There is a reference to the doctors believing a depowered Castiel was brain dead when he was brought to hospital in Two Minutes to Midnight. 

If that's true, then how did Jimmy crave red meat in My Bloody valentine?  I always figured it was after swan Song.

[catrox14]

On 09/09/2017 at 0:48 PM, Katy M said:

If that's true, then how did Jimmy crave red meat in My Bloody valentine?  I always figured it was after swan Song.

Oh that's a good point.

[Wayward Son]

On 12/10/2014 at 4:26 PM, catrox14 said:

Upon rewatch I like the episode even less. What I don't understand though about Claire characterization here is her anger with Cas. She was supposedly fine with being Cas vessel and she was not angry with her dad for taking Cas back. So on one hand I suppose they are now telling me that 12 year old Claire didn't have the capacity to consent after all which screws with Cas character in a bad way or Claire wasn't okay with to begin with so Cas did not have consent. Either way it's Cas character assassination IMO. But I suppose he was due since Carver and Co. wreaked havoc on Sam and Dean already.

I've never considered Claire's anger at Castiel as assassination of the character. I've always thought the depiction of Cas' possession of Jimmy in The Rapture was portrayed as rather shady. Since he essentially used the threat of possessing Claire to get Jimmy to agree. However, in Castiel's defence he had just returned from a re-education in heaven, which we now know to be brain washing by Naomi, and thus was in a state of mind where obedience to heaven came above all. A state of mind where one man and his family weren't even worth considering next to the bigger picture. It took the words of Dean in Lucifer Rising to help him break free of that compulsion from heaven. 

On 9/9/2017 at 8:48 PM, Katy M said:

If that's true, then how did Jimmy crave red meat in My Bloody valentine?  I always figured it was after swan Song.

 I believe Castiel's craving of red meat was a physical craving of the body he hosts rather than anything to do with Jimmy's soul. We know that under normal circumstances Castiel's grace is enough to sustain the body and repress such urges, but we also know, from when he was human for 9A, that when that grace isn't present that he needs to eat like everyone else. Famine simply brought those bodily cravings to the surface. The dialogue I was referring to is the following 

 

Spoiler

DEAN We all thought you were Dead. Where the hell are you, man?

(cut to Castiel in a hospital bed)

CASTIEL A hospital.

DEAN Are you okay?

CASTIEL No.

DEAN You want to elaborate?

CASTIEL I just woke up here. The doctors were fairly surprised. They thought I was brain-dead.

 

Which IMO shows that there is no brain activity beyond Cas' presence. In addition to this, the manner of his death in Lucifer Rising and Swan Song is heavily implied as the same. On both occasions he is killed by an archangel (Raphael in Lucifer Rising and Lucifer in SwanSong) and while we only saw the Swan Song death on scene we know from their discussion with Chuck in Sympathy For the Devil that Cas exploded and in a manner that left chunks of his flesh in Chuck's hair. Why would Jimmys soul survive the first death in this manner, but not the second? 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Wayward Son

[The Companion]

I actually liked this one. I see there are very mixed feelings and I doubt I can add much that hasn't been said. I really liked the 3 stooges call back and the way Sam recognized a problem but just let it lie. I was happy to have some repercussions from the Jimmy stuff. I seem to have been more disturbed than a lot of people about that (though it may be a situation where the people commenting on threads already knew the outcome). As much as I enjoy Castiel, the scene where he forced "consent" was super messed up. I felt like Claire was rightfully screwed up by everything and to have the being that screwed it up walk back into her life wearing her Dad's body? Yeah, that's a tough sell. I liked that Castiel was trying to fix it and that it wasn't that easy.

What can I say about the end that hasn't already been said? Leaving Dean was a bizarre choice, but it was still emotional and hard to watch, so I will hand wave it.