TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[Rinaldo]

They say Sinatra was indeed right there and wanted Sky himself. But the studio was high on Brando -- he was their biggest box-office draw right at that moment in time, and they were gonna put him in a musical, dammit. (Gene Kelly had also apparently been in contention for the part.) Betty Grable was first choice for Adelaide (edited; I originally stupidly typed Sarah), and when she turned them down they went with Vivian Blaine from the original cast (despite Marilyn Monroe pushing herself for the role). Jean Simmons was third choice for Sarah, after Grace Kelly and Deborah Kerr (!), both of whom presumably would have had to be dubbed.

 

I can't see Doris Day as Sarah, or rather, hear her. Unless they reconceived the music radically, she would have found the soprano register alien -- I certainly never heard her sing that way at any point in her career.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Rinaldo

[ratgirlagogo]

I ranted about this some time ago on TWOP.  I'm not the big musical person that a lot of you are - but Marlon Brando and Jean Simmons were not just bad but insulting casting.  Gene Kelly or Dean Martin would have been great. And while I don't know what her voice would have been like at that point, and I'm told she was uninterested, my dream casting of Sarah has always been Shirley Temple.  Maybe they would have had to dub her, I don't think so but  I don't know and I don't care - she would have been able to do the dancing in her sleep and I believe she would have understood this character instantly.

[bluepiano]

Rinaldo, I'm a bit confused by your post. You say that when Betty Grable turned down the part of Sarah they went with Vivian Blaine from the original cast, but Vivian Blaine played Miss Adelaide in both the stage show and the movie.

 

Regarding Doris Day as Sarah, it seems to me that changing the keys of the songs to fit Doris is less radical than casting a non-singer as Sky.

 

As for the "Music Man" (one of my favorites as well), I admit to having given the nature of the con a bit of thought myself. But I just took it on faith that there must've been a pretty good mark-up on band instruments and uniforms. No harder to accept than groups of town councilmen spontaneously breaking into song, with perfect 4 part harmony. For me the whole show has the air of a fantasy, like this small town in Iowa was some kind of Camelot.

Edited October 6, 2015 by bluepiano

[Rinaldo]

Rinaldo, I'm a bit confused by your post. You say that when Betty Grable turned down the part of Sarah they went with Vivian Blaine from the original cast, but Vivian Blaine played Miss Adelaide in both the stage show and the movie.

Yep, that is confusing. It would make more sense if I'd said Adelaide as I meant to, wouldn't it? In fact I'm going to go back now and change it; even if it makes our responses redundant now, it'll be less confusing to the next person who reads the thread.

 

Maybe it's my bias as a musician, but to me Sarah has to be a soprano, and the fact that the actual movie had some wrongheaded casting wouldn't excuse adding her to it. I would have loved to see Doris Day play Nellie Forbush or Annie Oakley or eventually Rose Hovick in the movies, but not Sarah Brown.

 

Obviously I don't lose a bit of sleep over the Music Man premise, it being one of my top favorite musicals still; but it does bemuse me a bit that, with the years and years Meredith Willson spent working on and reconceiving and rewriting the show and laboring to get it produced, nobody brought up this point to him.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Rinaldo

[prican58]

Best thing about Music Man is Robert Preston. Love the film as a whole (Ronnie Howard was never cuter) but RP is perfection. Very under rated actor.

[Milburn Stone]

Re the relative levels of cynicism/sincerity in "Sit Down You're Rocking the Boat" and "Brotherhood of Man," I have always found them roughly equivalent. In HtS, for sure there's never a moment when we doubt that J. Pierpont Finch will somehow find a way to turn his fellows' conversion to his advantage, but as for his fellows, I believe they are caught up in the salvation of the moment. Their sincere conversion is part of what makes the number so funny, in much the same way as its analog in the earlier Loesser musical. (And also part of what makes them lambs to Finch's slaughter, although no one is waiting to slaughter anyone in Guys and Dolls.)

Edited October 6, 2015 by Milburn Stone

[Sharpie66]

The best character sequel ever, IMO, is Robert Preston's Centauri in The Last Starfighter, who is just an intergalactic Harold Hill. He nails that role, as well as stealing the entire film, which is a really underrated gem of 1980s sci-fi flicks.

[Inquisitionist]

Boy, I am having some trouble with romantic comedies from the '30s and '40s.  (I'd probably have trouble with current ones, too, if I actually watched them.)  Most recent case in point was 1942's The Male Animal with Henry Fonda and Olivia de Havilland.  I was curious to see these two paired up, but what a simpering couple they were asked to portray.  I stuck with the movie after reading a NY Times review from 1942, which said that Fonda's "reading of the Vanzetti letter, following a solemn appeal for tolerance at the end, is a profoundly moving performance. It gives genuine significance to this film."  That storyline was actually powerful and amazingly (and sadly) still very relevant today.  But the rom-com part of the movie was just annoying.

[Milburn Stone]

1942's The Male Animal...the rom-com part of the movie was just annoying.

 

For me the rom-com element is enormously helped by Fonda's rival being played by Jack Carson. (Who comes as close as any actor I know to the description "can do no wrong"). Put anyone else in that part and the movie would be diminished.

[Julia]

no one is waiting to slaughter anyone in Guys and Dolls.

 

Well, Nathan kind of is, although he is willing to arrange for it to happen in quiet and peace :)

[elle]

Boy, I am having some trouble with romantic comedies from the '30s and '40s.  (I'd probably have trouble with current ones, too, if I actually watched them.)  Most recent case in point was 1942's The Male Animal with Henry Fonda and Olivia de Havilland.  I was curious to see these two paired up, but what a simpering couple they were asked to portray.  I stuck with the movie after reading a NY Times review from 1942, which said that Fonda's "reading of the Vanzetti letter, following a solemn appeal for tolerance at the end, is a profoundly moving performance. It gives genuine significance to this film."  That storyline was actually powerful and amazingly (and sadly) still very relevant today.  But the rom-com part of the movie was just annoying.

I agree with you on that movie.  I never liked it.

 

What other comedies have you seen?  You mentioned 30s/40s romcom or as they were known screwball comedies.  A few must sees:

The Lady Eve

Bringing up Baby

My Favorite Wife

The Shop around the Corner

The Philadelphia Story

[Inquisitionist]

I like four of those.  My Favorite Wife may have been colored by having seen the awful remake with Doris Day, Move Over, Darling, but in general, the Grant/Dunne pairing doesn't do a lot for me.  The Awful Truth was a bit of a let-down, too.  More recently, I started watching The Talk of the Town, with Grant and Jean Arthur and found it dreary. 

[henrysmom]

 

I just don't get Actor/Actress X; why was s/he ever a star, anyway?

 

I want to play!  Early in my classic movie watching days, I told a fellow old movie fan that I just didn't get Gary Cooper's appeal.  They told me to watch Ball of Fire.  Yeah, I got it after that.  And as a bonus I saw that Barbara Stanwyck was not just that lady from the old western I saw a few times in reruns on tv.  

 

[Inquisitionist]

And as a bonus I saw that Barbara Stanwyck was not just that lady from the old western I saw a few times in reruns on tv.

 

Good golly, she certainly wasn't!  But I fell for Cooper as Mr. Deeds.

[Rinaldo]

A few must sees:

The Lady Eve

The Shop around the Corner

The Philadelphia Story

I left in the 3 that are on my own select list. When I haven't seen The Philadelphia Story for a while, I'll sometimes get it into my know-it-all head that I oughtn't to like it because whatever (it's all about putting Katharine Hepburn in her place, or something). But then I'll actually see it, and it's just irresistible, with all three stars showing why they were stars and working their magic.

 

The Lady Eve I like a lot, though the final third with the impersonation always seems weird to me, with the new batch of characters and the total lack of disguise (I know they address that in the dialogue, but it still feels odd). But no matter; it's still delightful, and the younger, not yet sanctified, Henry Fonda is a wonderful discovery.

 

And The Shop Around the Corner? There's not a thing wrong with it. I love it without reservation.

 

I would also add to the list The More the Merrier (which we discussed here recently) and The Palm Beach Story (unlike anything else, and with two of my very favorite people, Joel McCrea and Claudette Colbert).

[Julia]

The ending was forced on them by the studio, and doesn't serve the picture, but almost all of Woman of the Year is great fun (JMO). Katherine Hepburn is a high-powered political journalist, and Spencer Tracy is a sportswriter, and they end up married. The scene right before he walks out on her because he doesn't want a one night stand is incendiary (if you're weak to Tracy/Hepburn, and I kind of am). Some of the gender politics are dicey (even at the time, the writer hated that ending) but it's actually more progressive than All About Eve was on the same issues twenty years later.

 

If you do go for it, try Pat and Mike, Adam's Rib and Desk Set. They're all outside your period, but they're still classics.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Julia

[Bastet]

The ending was forced on them by the studio, and doesn't serve the picture, but almost all of Woman of the Year is great fun (JMO).

 

If footage of the original ending still existed somewhere, I'd put good money toward restoring it so I could finally see it rather than just read about it.  Because then the movie would be something close to perfection.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Bastet

[prican58]

Re Cooper, he had me at "tanglefoot". Teresa Wright, too. But I will agree that Ball of Fire put him over the top. That whole film is perfection and like Milburn Stone and Jack Carson, Allen Jenkins' turn as the slang slinging garbage man (that was his role, was it not?) is a perfect example of a guy I'd follow anywhere.

 

One thing that intrigues me is certain Hollywood friendships. Ann Blyth's commentary about Joan Crawford and how much she really liked her and how they were friends til the end; in Teresa Wright's homage to Bette Davis she said they were friends since acting in Little Foxes. And of course there is Davis' friendship with DeHavilland. One hears so much about Davis and Crawford and how difficult/demanding they were and how they were perhaps a bit taken with themselves. DeHavilland and  Wright have such reputations for being very nice that it seems odd that such opposites attract. Makes me wonder what the real Davis and Crawford were like.

Even De Havilland for that matter. She carried on a life long animosity with her own sister and when Joan Fontaine died Olivia issued a statement that was rather devoid of sentimentalityfrom what I understand.  What happened between those two may never be revealed except perhaps when Olivia passes away. And probably not even then as I'm guessing her will stipulates that it never be revealed, if anybody even knows.

 

But really, lots of people just take others as they come. You realize someone's less than stellar qualities yet that person somehow responds to you in a way that allows you to have a meaningful friendship. Two of my mom's best friends were women who rubbed many people the wrong way but when others would ask mom why she hung out with them she would just say that they just "got" each other. It's all good. 

[Bastet]

One hears so much about Davis and Crawford and how difficult/demanding they were and how they were perhaps a bit taken with themselves. DeHavilland and  Wright have such reputations for being very nice that it seems odd that such opposites attract. Makes me wonder what the real Davis and Crawford were like.

 

Myrna Loy was also good friends with Joan Crawford, from the time they met when both were first getting started in the business to the time of Crawford's death, despite rather different lifestyles.  Loy said when you had a friend in Crawford, you had a loyal friend for life (and that's the type of friend Loy was, too, by all accounts).

[elle]

I like four of those.  My Favorite Wife may have been colored by having seen the awful remake with Doris Day, Move Over, Darling, but in general, the Grant/Dunne pairing doesn't do a lot for me.  The Awful Truth was a bit of a let-down, too.  More recently, I started watching The Talk of the Town, with Grant and Jean Arthur and found it dreary. 

I don't really like the other Grant/Dunne pairings, but you should see the original b/w My Favorite Wife.  It is far superior to the Doris Day (sorry!) version.  Now if  you want a 3 tissue box movie, watch Grant and Dunne in "Penny Serenade"

[Julia]

I don't really like the other Grant/Dunne pairings, but you should see the original b/w My Favorite Wife.  It is far superior to the Doris Day (sorry!) version.  Now if  you want a 3 tissue box movie, watch Grant and Dunne in "Penny Serenade"

 

I've seen Penny Serenade a jillion times, and I have to admit, when Grant is begging the judge to let them keep the baby I tear up a little, but it does kind of remind me of Thelma Ritter in All About Eve - "What a story! Everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end."

[elle]

More recently, I started watching The Talk of the Town, with Grant and Jean Arthur and found it dreary.

Okay, let us see how long the keyboard will keeping going this time!  The Talk of the Town is an odd movie, not really screwball, rom or com.  It is fun to hear Roland Colmen and Cary Grant speak together.

 

For Jean Arthur, I would recommend Mr. Smith goes to Washington.  Love her in that!  Others have mentioned The More the Merrier, I actually prefer the remake with Grant Walk, don't Run.

 

 

I left in the 3 that are on my own select list. When I haven't seen The Philadelphia Story for a while, I'll sometimes get it into my know-it-all head that I oughtn't to like it because whatever (it's all about putting Katharine Hepburn in her place, or something). But then I'll actually see it, and it's just irresistible, with all three stars showing why they were stars and working their magic.

 

 The Palm Beach Story (unlike anything else, and with two of my very favorite people, Joel McCrea and Claudette Colbert).

I love The Philadelphia Story for everyone around the three main leads.  It is just a great cast!

 

In a similar vein, it is fun to see Mary Astor in a very frivolous role.  Another Mary Astor/Claudette Colbert match up is Midnight, also with L. Barrymore and Don Ameche.

 

And of course you *must* watch It Happened One Night, to make up your own opinion.

 

Anything with Myrna Loy and William Powell, for me, is great fun!   It recently occurred to me that one could surmise what Nick and Nora Charles' courting period might have been like by watching Libeled Lady.  (p.s. don't watch the color remake!!)

[Julia]

For Jean Arthur, I would recommend Mr. Smith goes to Washington.  Love her in that!  Others have mentioned The More the Merrier, I actually prefer the remake with Grant Walk, don't Run.

 

You're totally tweaking my massive teenaged crush on Jim Hutton and my massive lifetime crush on Cary Grant. Just saying.

 

I love The Philadelphia Story for everyone around the three main leads.  It is just a great cast!

These are the days history teaches us would be best spent in bed...

Edited October 7, 2015 by Julia

[Inquisitionist]

The More The Merrier was fun, but I had seen Walk, Don't Run before and really loved Cary Grant in that (his last film appearance, if I'm not mistaken) as well as Jim Hutton.  I also watched My Favorite Wife recently.  As I said, something about the Grant/Dunne pairing just doesn't excite me.

 

Count me in on the love for The Palm Beach Story.  Ale and Quail forever!

[Bastet]

These are the days history teaches us would be best spent in bed...

 

It's the pages of history (and best spent lying in bed) -- I know these missing words because I use that quote all the time. 

 

I'm also prone to saying, "I'm standing here solidly on my own two hands and going crazy."

 

And a friend I will still occasionally do the "This is the voice of doom calling" routine when phoning each other. 

 

Everyone standing around telling Tracy what's wrong with her - while missing the irony of calling her out for not accepting the human failings of others - tries rather hard to ruin that movie for me, but the cast is so delectable (and not just the three leads; Ruth Hussey, Roland Young and Virginia Weidler are just as marvelous) and much of the dialogue so sharp that I really enjoy the film.  Except Tracy's father's "It's your fault I'm a cheating louse" bullshit.  That guy can get stuffed. 

Edited October 7, 2015 by Bastet

[prican58]

You know there is the forgotten Kate/Cary masterpiece Holiday. It's kind of a screwball but also rather serious and those two are grand!  Lew Ayres to boot! 

 

Hey Bastet, I knew there was another actress who was friends with Crawford so thanks for the Loy tip. I do think Joan was a bit more vulnerable emotionally than Bette was so I would think a good egg like Loy had the ability to get the most out of Joan. Another odd (maybe) pairing was Crawford and Stanwyck. I know they were friends for years, though I do not know if it was enduring. Though Henry Fonda gushed a lot over Barbara and had said he had been sort of in love with her, I've read enough about Stanwyck to know that she was probably even less motherly than Joan and Bette combined. Very career focused. I can see their attraction, so to speak. 

 

And ditto re your love for cast of Philadelphia Story.

Edited October 7, 2015 by prican58

[Bastet]

You know there is the forgotten Kate/Cary masterpiece Holiday. It's kind of a screwball but also rather serious and those two are grand!  Lew Ayres to boot!

 

I watch that every New Year's Eve.  It's so hard to pick a favorite Katharine Hepburn/Cary Grant pairing - well, I can knock Sylvia Scarlett out of the race, but that's about it.  Bringing Up Baby is tied with The Thin Man as my all-time favorite film, but The Philadelphia Story is great as discussed above, and Holiday is an unsung classic in my eyes.  Wonderful characterization and storyline, with an outstanding supporting cast.  Lew Ayres would be enough, but we also get Edward Everett Horton and Jean Dixon.

 

Another odd (maybe) pairing was Crawford and Stanwyck.

 

I don't know, there were quite a few similarities there.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Count me in on the love for The Palm Beach Story.  Ale and Quail forever!

And that amazing ending.  "Of course that's another plot entirely."

 

I hate Penny Serenade.

[bluepiano]

Count me in on the love for The Palm Beach Story.  Ale and Quail forever!

 

Now we're on to my favorite kind of movie, the screwball comedies of the '30s and early '40s. Although regarding "Palm Beach Story" Preston Sturges was such a distinctive stylist, as both a writer and director, that his movies seem to stand outside of any genre and be in their own special category.  (I love all of them, but my favorite is "Sullivan's Travels. What dialogue! And McCrea and Lake are wonderful together. You could watch that movie today and their interactions would still seem completely believable and not dated at all).

 

 "The Awful Truth" and "Bringing Up Baby" are probably the movies most mentioned as being the quintessential screwball comedies, but neither are personal favorites, despite the presence of the always amazing Cary Grant. The scene in which Irene Dunne does her "Dixie Belle Lee" impersonation is true comic gold, but overall she's a little too prissy for me. And "Bringing Up Baby" has a frantic pace that seems to be screaming, "look, see how wacky this movie is." It just tries too hard. (Though Hepburn's "confession" in the jail house is one of her funniest bits of acting ever).

 

"My Favorite Wife" is enjoyable, but the last 20 minutes or so are deadly dull. The humor becomes labored and forced, and it kind of drags along to the inevitable conclusion. "The Awful Truth" has the exact same problem.  (Incidentally, I don't think "Move Over Darling" is bad at all. Nobody can equal Cary Grant, but James Garner was maybe the best comedic leading man of his generation. Polly Bergen as the "second" wife and Edgar Buchanan as the judge were great supporting players.)

 

Cary makes "Penny Serenade" watchable. Probably no one else could have. Irene Dunne at her most cloying.

 

I don't consider "The Shop Around the Corner" a screwball comedy, but it is maybe the best romantic comedy ever made, in the sense that it is really, truly romantic. The ending never fails to move me. Hollywood of that era rarely ever made a movie about two "common people" finding love. (Where one of them doesn't turn out to be secretly a millionaire or a princess). The acting and direction are perfection.

 

I find "Talk of the Town" to be a really interesting movie, mixing comedy, romance, and political commentary, and for me it all works. The relationship between Cary and Jean Arthur, the lifelong affectionate friendship that has never quite blossomed into romance, is unusually well depicted.

 

Probably my all time favorite screwball comedy is "Nothing Sacred."  I also love "My Man Godfrey," so as you can see I'm a huge Carole Lombard fan. I think she was the ultimate screwball comedienne, followed closely by Jean Arthur. Myrna Loy was wonderful too. On the male side, it's Cary Grant, with William Powell a distant second. (Not a knock on Powell, but Cary was in a league of his own).

 

A few others, not as well known:  "It's A Wonderful World" (the unusual pairing of Jimmy Stewart and Claudette Colbert), "I Love You Again" ( Powell and Loy), "The Devil and Miss Jones" (Jean Arthur at her best, and the great Charles Coburn), "If You Could Only Cook" (more Jean Arthur, and a wonderfully convoluted plot) "Breakfast for Two" (a charming Barbara Stanwyck).

 

And I guess you could consider The Topper movies screwball comedies too, and "Here Comes Mr. Jordan." Maybe that's a sub-genre. The supernatural screwball comedy. (Throw in "I Married a Witch.")

Edited October 7, 2015 by bluepiano

[Wiendish Fitch]

Now we're on to my favorite kind of movie, the screwball comedies of the '30s and early '40s. Although regarding "Palm Beach Story" Preston Sturges was such a distinctive stylist, as both a writer and director, that his movies seem to stand outside of any genre and be in their own special category.  (I love all of them, but my favorite is "Sullivan's Travels. What dialogue! And McCrea and Lake are wonderful together. You could watch that movie today and their interactions would still seem completely believable and not dated at all).

 

"My Favorite Wife" is enjoyable, but the last 20 minutes or so are deadly dull. The humor becomes labored and forced, and it kind of drags along to the inevitable conclusion. "The Awful Truth" has the exact same problem.  (Incidentally, I don't think "Move Over Darling" is bad at all. Nobody can equal Cary Grant, but James Garner was maybe the best comedic leading man of his generation. Polly Bergen as the "second" wife and Edgar Buchanan as the judge were great supporting players.)

 

 

I find "Talk of the Town" to be a really interesting movie, mixing comedy, romance, and political commentary, and for me it all works. The relationship between Cary and Jean Arthur, the lifelong affectionate friendship that has never quite blossomed into romance, is unusually well depicted.

 

 

 

Had to watch The Palm Beach Story twice to appreciate it, but I agree it's a gem. I love Claudette Colbert; like Ginger Rogers or Katharine Hepburn, she was deft in balancing prim and saucy, and her comic timing is impeccable. If you want more screwball Colbert, please check out the Billy Wilder-penned Midnight and Bluebeard's Eighth Wife ( try to look past the latter film's bad reputation). The scene with her and the deaf old man trying to buy her apartment made me not laugh, but cackle heartily. I normally don't care for Joel McCrea (I find him dull as tombs), but he's put to good use here.

 

Am I the only one who felt kind of sorry for Gail Patrick's character in My Favorite Wife? Even if she's kind of bitchy, she has good reason to be, given how Cary Grant keeps treating her. I mean, think about it: how come it's okay for Grant to deny her sex on their wedding night, but not when Robert Mitchum did the same thing to Shelley Winters in The Night of the Hunter? And, yes, I know Mitchum was evil in the latter movie, but, honestly, Grant is such a cowardly douche in My Favorite Wife, I absolutely could not bring myself to root for him (Irene Dunne's smugness was also a turnoff). 

 

I hated The Talk of the Town. I thought Grant and that sniveling Jean Arthur were sanctimonious, punchable jerks (I'm trying to go easy on the more colorful words). My sympathies were with darling Ronald Colman, all the way. Then again, Colman is one of my biggest Classic Hollywood crushes, so I confess to some bias.

 

No, all characters in comedies don't have to be likable, but there's an art in how you present them. In Trouble in Paradise, the protagonists are con artists and thieves, if not borderline sociopaths (for God's sake, the movie opens with Herbert Marshall knocking out Edward Everett Horton and stealing his stuff), and yet I still love it, mainly because they're surrounded by people who are little better than they are, or who aren't weak, defenseless victims.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Wiendish Fitch

[Julia]

Jeremy Hillary Boob Phud! Icon love, wiendish-fitch.

[monakane]

 

Hey Bastet, I knew there was another actress who was friends with Crawford so thanks for the Loy tip. I do think Joan was a bit more vulnerable emotionally than Bette was so I would think a good egg like Loy had the ability to get the most out of Joan. Another odd (maybe) pairing was Crawford and Stanwyck. I know they were friends for years, though I do not know if it was enduring. Though Henry Fonda gushed a lot over Barbara and had said he had been sort of in love with her, I've read enough about Stanwyck to know that she was probably even less motherly than Joan and Bette combined. Very career focused. I can see their attraction, so to speak. 

 

 

I know Joan had a difficult childhood and I always felt that there was sexual abuse involved.  I've never read that was the case, so it's just a feeling I get about her.  I always felt a little sorry for Joan.  I think Bette was much more self confident than Joan.  Does anyone know how Kate got along with Joan and Bette?  I love Joan, Bette, Loy, and Stanwyck with Stanwyck being my favorite.  I know there is a lot of love for Claudette Colbert on this board, but something about her grates.  I think she's beautiful and a decent actress, but I find her smug.

[Inquisitionist]

(Incidentally, I don't think "Move Over Darling" is bad at all. Nobody can equal Cary Grant, but James Garner was maybe the best comedic leading man of his generation. Polly Bergen as the "second" wife and Edgar Buchanan as the judge were great supporting players.)

 

Garner is always watchable, but I found Doris Day's breathless indignation grating.  I prefer Garner with a cynical edge, as in The Americanization of Emily.

 

I haven't seen Claudette Colbert in much, but thought she was divine in The Palm Beach Story (hard to believe she was almost 40 in that).  But I can't hear her name without thinking about Bob Balaban's line about Colbert in Gosford Park: "Is she British, or just affected?"  Hee.

[elle]

I haven't seen Claudette Colbert in much, but thought she was divine in The Palm Beach Story (hard to believe she was almost 40 in that).  But I can't hear her name without thinking about Bob Balaban's line about Colbert in Gosford Park: "Is she British, or just affected?"  Hee.

Neither.  She is French. (but you knew that)

[monakane]

 

I hated The Talk of the Town. I thought Grant and that sniveling Jean Arthur were sanctimonious, punchable jerks (I'm trying to go easy on the more colorful words). My sympathies were with darling Ronald Colman, all the way. Then again, Colman is one of my biggest Classic Hollywood crushes, so I confess to some bias.

 

 

I'm with you on both Talk of the Town and Ronald Colman.  There was a melancholy about Colman that always pulled at me.  I think that quality worked especially well in Random Harvest and Lost Horizon.  And Tale of Two Cities.

Edited October 7, 2015 by monakane

[MissT]

I know Joan had a difficult childhood and I always felt that there was sexual abuse involved.  I've never read that was the case, so it's just a feeling I get about her.  I always felt a little sorry for Joan.  I think Bette was much more self confident than Joan.  Does anyone know how Kate got along with Joan and Bette?  I love Joan, Bette, Loy, and Stanwyck with Stanwyck being my favorite.  I know there is a lot of love for Claudette Colbert on this board, but something about her grates.  I think she's beautiful and a decent actress, but I find her smug.

I think they are all strong women, but I have to give my two cents:  Joan Crawford- really don’t care for any of her movies other than Mildred Pierce. 

Myrna Loy – love her, especially in The Best Years of Our Lives.  It’s my favorite movie of all time, but that’s another discussion.

Barbara Stanwyck: basically like her in everything I’ve seen her in, and that’s including The Thorn Birds

Claudette Colbert:  meh --- she does nothing for me.  She always played the down-trodden maiden and her voice irritates me to no end.   I’ve read some interesting biographies on her.

Bette Davis:  LOVE HER!!!!  I’ve seen almost every movie she’s been in and even if the movie was bad, I still loved Bette.   She could do anything.

Adding one extra:   Joan Bennett – I think she was very under-rated.  She was beautiful.    I really like to the movie Reckless Moment.

[bluepiano]

Am I the only one who felt kind of sorry for Gail Patrick's character in My Favorite Wife? Even if she's kind of bitchy, she has good reason to be, given how Cary Grant keeps treating her.

 

Gail Patrick made a career of playing unsympathetic "other woman" parts (she was Carole Lombard's mean, bitchy sister in "My Man Godfrey'), so audiences of the time were conditioned to not like her the minute she appeared on screen. So they didn't have worry that the audience would think she was being treated badly. But from a dramatic standpoint, I always wonder what Cary was supposed to have seen in her, as she's pretty much devoid of any positive qualities. So there's never any doubt for a second that he's going to choose Irene Dunne. Talk about a stacked deck.

 

One of the things I like about "Move Over Darling" is that Polly Bergen plays the role for comedy. She's a kooky neurotic, but not unlikeable, and you can understand what Garner saw in her. Their scenes together don't give you the queasy feeling you get from watching Grant and Patrick together.

 

Back to "My Favorite Wife." There was kind of an in-joke for audiences at the time, in that the onscreen rivals, Cary and Randolph Scott, were know to be off screen best friends. They famously shared a beach house together, and I believe that even at the time there was some intimation that they were more then friends. Movie magazines frequently had pictures of them in their bathing suites, lounging around the pool. (They did seem like an odd couple, given their completely different acting styles.) "Wife" may have been Scott's one true comedic performance, and he's really pretty good.

Edited October 7, 2015 by bluepiano

[Crisopera]

I love almost all of these movies (although I agree with ratgirlagogo about Penny Serenade) but my favorite screwball has to be Midnight.  Every single person in it is expert, especially Colbert and Barrymore.  It also has an exchange of dialogue which never, ever fails to make me laugh:

 

Eve Peabody: [Discussing her career as a gold-digger] I landed a lord, almost.

Tibor Czerny: Almost?

Eve Peabody: Well, the family came between us. His mother came to my hotel and offered me a bribe.

Tibor Czerny: You threw her out, I hope!

Eve Peabody: How could I, with my hands full of money?

 

The scene in The Awful Truth when Cary Grant tries to sneak into Irene Dunne's recital also kills me.

 

Another movie that I love (Stanwyck is my favorite actress of all time) is Remember the Night (1940), not a screwball per se, but with screwball elements (the would-be jewel heist and other scenes toward the beginning).  But when the sentiment comes, it becomes a real beauty, with Preston Sturges' script and Mitchell Leisen's direction making it strikingly romantic.  Fred MacMurray is also an underrated actor, I think - it's too bad that he's really only remembered (if at all) these days for the dull My Three Sons.

[Rinaldo]

...my favorite screwball has to be Midnight.  Every single person in it is expert, especially Colbert and Barrymore. 

 

Another movie that I love (Stanwyck is my favorite actress of all time) is Remember the Night (1940), not a screwball per se, but with screwball elements (the would-be jewel heist and other scenes toward the beginning).  But when the sentiment comes, it becomes a real beauty, with Preston Sturges' script and Mitchell Leisen's direction making it strikingly romantic.  Fred MacMurray is also an underrated actor, I think - it's too bad that he's really only remembered (if at all) these days for the dull My Three Sons.

Two examples of Mitchell Leisen's versatility, in both cases written by a future famous director (Wilder, Sturges). Midnight is indeed a kick -- I was about to mention it in my previous list, and can't now think why I edited it out before posting. I guess I feel just slightly let down by what feels like a perfunctory ending; I like a more thorough wrap-up as resolution of so much complication. But everyone is at their best in it. I'm sometimes neutral on Don Ameche, but he brings a lot to the party here. And the supporting cast! Most of them starred in their own pictures at this point, but to have John Barrymore, Mary Astor, Francis Lederer, Monty Woolley kicking around in support... that's luxury.

 

I'm not so big on Remember the Night, though I won't say a word against Stanwyck's and MacMurray's excellent performances in it. But it starts as a big-city cynical sort of contemporary comedy of manners, gets slapsticky for a bit, and then becomes straight sentimental drama. And I guess that's just not my thing; I don't necessarily dislike mixing of genres (recent example that I loved though many didn't, often for this very reason: Burn After Reading). But it has to be done just right, and I guess finishing with your long stretch of sincere drama, after fun and wisecracks (however muted) earlier... again, not for me. She spends Christmas in an atmosphere of family love such as she's never known before, and it changes her forever... Well, many people like this a lot, and I wish I could be one of them.

[bluepiano]

I agree that mixing comedy and sentiment is tricky, but I think that for the most part Remember the Night does it well, and it's at least more palatable to me than many other "holiday movies."

 

MacMurray was also very good of course in "Double Indemnity," but to see his comic touch, check out Hands Across the Table from 1935. It's also directed my Mitchell Leisen, and also blends humor, sentiment, and romance. Ralph Bellamy gives a touching performance, and Carole Lombard is wonderful as always. It's one of those lovely, small films from the '30s that are now forgotten, because of the overwhelming number of great films from that decade.

 

Adding one extra:   Joan Bennett – I think she was very under-rated.  She was beautiful.   I really like the movie Reckless Moment.

 

Yes to this also. Joan was a really good and versatile actress. She could play seductive noir femme fatales in Scarlet Street and Woman in the Window and also the kindly wife/mother in Father of the Bride. Reckless Moment is a very good movie, and she's totally believable in a difficult role. Her chemistry with James Mason is great.

 

Readers of this forum will probably know that she was the sister of Constance Bennett, of the Topper movies and many '30s screwball comedies. Joan Bennett might be one of the few cases of a natural blond dying her hair brunette instead of the opposite. There are some very early Joan movies where she's a blonde, and she looks almost exactly like Constance. Since Constance was already one of Hollywood's biggest stars, Joan became a brunette in order to escape from her sister's shadow. And it was a smart move, as I can't imagine Joan as a blonde in Scarlet Street or many of her other dramatic roles.

Edited October 7, 2015 by bluepiano

[Rinaldo]

This is a fun conversation! Here's my bit to keep it going:

I agree that mixing comedy and sentiment is tricky, but I think that for the most part Remember the Night does it well, and it's at least more palatable to me than many other "holiday movies."

 

MacMurray was also very good of course in "Double Indemnity," but to see his comic touch, check out Hands Across the Table from 1935. It's also directed my Mitchell Leisen, and also blends humor, sentiment, and romance. Ralph Bellamy gives a touching performance, and Carole Lombard is wonderful as always. It's one of those lovely, small films from the '30s that are now forgotten, because of the overwhelming number of great films from that decade.

I've not seen that one yet, but I'm watching out for it. Last year I did catch another Lombard/MacMurray/Leison item, Swing High, Swing Low (1937). I can't call it a 100% artistic success, but it's got something unique, and it has stuck with me. And it's an example of genre mixing that I do buy, overall. It starts out as a "meet cute" along the Panama Canal, of all places. They get together, they have a good time sometimes but they can't make it work and they split up (with some connivance from that wily minx Dorothy Lamour), Fred hits the bottle and the skids, he makes one last try at a revival of his musical (trumpet) career, Carole finds him in time and helps him through it, and maybe they'll make it work this time. Seeing Fred be such a mess, and having him cradle Carole so gently in his arms while playing, is memorable and affecting. It's one of those movies that one can't call an overlooked masterpiece exactly, but it has a spark of life and genuine feeling that some better-rounded movies don't.

[Julia]

OK, speaking of Claudette Colbert, Fred MacMurray, and people looking particularly yummy, he's pretty smoking walking around shirtless in No Time for Love. And along the same lines, Eddie Albert (ETA: oy) had a pretty nice torso going on in Roman Holiday.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Julia

[mariah23]

You mean Albert, right?

Sad news to add. Kevin Cochran aka Moochie has died at the age of 66.

Edited October 7, 2015 by mariah23

[Rinaldo]

Oh man. I remember Kevin Corcoran so well. Somehow all his characters were named Moochie, whether on "Spin and Marty" or anywhere else. It's the end of an era.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Gail Patrick made a career of playing unsympathetic "other woman" parts (she was Carole Lombard's mean, bitchy sister in "My Man Godfrey'), so audiences of the time were conditioned to not like her the minute she appeared on screen.

Yep, kind of the female Ralph Bellamy.  Oh well, she sure got work out of it.  Yikes.

[NewDigs]

snipped

 For Jean Arthur, I would recommend Mr. Smith goes to Washington.  Love her in that! 

snipped

I will always love Jean Arthur and James/Jimmy Stewart in You Can't Take it With You. Not to mention Lionel Barrymore.

Plus I love me some Capra-corn.

[3pwood]

Yep, kind of the female Ralph Bellamy.  Oh well, she sure got work out of it.  Yikes.

 

You all know that Gail Patrick retired as an actress & became producer of the Perry Mason TV series, right?

[ratgirlagogo]

Yes I did, and I have to hope that is something she preferred and that made her happy.

[Julia]

You all know that Gail Patrick retired as an actress & became producer of the Perry Mason TV series, right?

Nope, but I'm not surprised. I had read that she opened a store to sell her own line of children's clothes. She sounds like a savvy woman.

[monakane]

 

Another movie that I love (Stanwyck is my favorite actress of all time) is Remember the Night (1940), not a screwball per se, but with screwball elements (the would-be jewel heist and other scenes toward the beginning).  But when the sentiment comes, it becomes a real beauty, with Preston Sturges' script and Mitchell Leisen's direction making it strikingly romantic.  Fred MacMurray is also an underrated actor, I think - it's too bad that he's really only remembered (if at all) these days for the dull My Three Sons.

 

I love that movie!  TCM usually shows it during the holidays.