TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Ruth Chatterton is way too young for this part.

Sshe was 44 and Walter Huston was 53, which isn't a huge age difference, especially in Hollywood terms.  I agree that she was a very young looking 44 and Huston was a pretty old-looking 53. I think the character got married very young, probably as a teenager, had a child immediately - so she went from being in a child in her parent's house to marriage and motherhood and barely had the chance to go to dances, etc., after her debutante year.  She's having a midlife crisis and mid-forties makes sense for such a woman - finding out she's going to be a grandma, etc.    In my mind her character in this film is associated with Bette Davis' similar character in the much campier Mr Skeffington.  In both cases these are women who were raised to be beautiful ornaments,  have no idea what to do with themselves otherwise and can't take care of themselves.

 

It's been a while since I've seen this movie and now you've made me want to go back and watch it again.  Because I remember not just feeling sympathetic to the wife, but feeling that the film was kind of sympathetic to the wife.  Much more sympathetic to the husband obviously, but also we get the idea that he didn't have a lot of time for her back when he was  busy running the company, they were always saying how great it would be when he retired, and now that they're spending time together they're discovering that they're very different people who want completely different things in life -  and unlike him as a middle-aged woman it's not going to be easy to start over with someone else.  But as I said  I think I want to watch it again because I may just be remembering the movie through my own sympathies.

Edited May 26, 2014 by ratgirlagogo

[Charlie Baker]

It's been a while since I've seen this, as well, but I found Ruth Chatterton very effective, if occasionally a little more affected and "actressy" than Mary Astor.  I agree with ratgirlagogo about her character.

 

Walter Huston is great in this movie, without doing much "acting."  He had a strong physical presence and I'd wager was something to see on stage in his prime. If he's most remembered for Treasure of Sierra Madre, he had a lot more going on.

[Rinaldo]

Walter Huston is great in this movie, without doing much "acting."  He had a strong physical presence and I'd wager was something to see on stage 

All reports from his stage performances agree with that. While never having been considered a vocalist, he was the one who introduced the classic "September Song" in the Kurt Weill / Maxwell Anderson operetta Knickerbocker Holiday, playing Peter Stuyvesant. This recording doesn't use the stage orchestration, but it suggests what was special about him.

 

[Julia]

ratgirlagogo, my uncle had a friend who used to work as a delivery boy for a music store in Manhattan when he was in high school. He used to make regular deliveries to Cole Porter, who had a standing order for any recordings of his music. From what he said, Cole Porter was unhappy with what people did with his music kind of a lot.

Sorry, hope this isn't off-topic.

I agree that Walter Huston did a great job in Knickerbocker Holiday, and it couldn't have been easy making a sympathetic character out of Peter Stuyvesant. He had terrific range as an actor (try Rain, Dodsworth and Treasure of the Sierra Madre).

Edited May 26, 2014 by Julia

[aradia22]

 

Sshe was 44 and Walter Huston was 53, which isn't a huge age difference, especially in Hollywood terms.  I agree that she was a very young looking 44 and Huston was a pretty old-looking 53. I think the character got married very young, probably as a teenager, had a child immediately - so she went from being in a child in her parent's house to marriage and motherhood and barely had the chance to go to dances, etc., after her debutante year.  She's having a midlife crisis and mid-forties makes sense for such a woman - finding out she's going to be a grandma, etc.

Ah. I thought she looked like she was in her 30's with some kind of old age makeup. Maybe it was the way it was shot but she still looked too glamorous. Like, her skin was a little too smooth. And yes, I don't think Walter Huston looking like an old 53 helped. I get the age difference as it's called out in the script, I think he tells Mary Astor "I married a young wife" but to me, she looked too young to have a daughter that age already having a child. I suppose that's part of the point of the movie, but I think it loses something if you don't believe it's a woman in her 40's who just looks young. Of course, audiences at the time probably knew her age going into the movie so they wouldn't have this issue (e.g. when Charlize Theron is cast in Young Adult). 

 

I didn't find Walter Huston bad in the part but I think he was held back to some degree by the character. He was winning in his boyish exuberance over the light he spied from the boat and in his first conversation with Mary Astor's character but he wasn't too charming. Which makes sense. He's supposed to be a real guy, a normal person, a hick. He can't have this charming movie star persona. But I found myself growing a little bored. I appreciate the story and the acting choices but I don't necessarily find it entertaining to watch.

[prican58]

I thought Maria Ouspenskaya stole the movie even though she was only in one scene.

 

 

badger, she never failed at that. I love her. She was so very touching in Love Affair with Irene Dunne and Charles Boyer. And I like her in King's Row with Robert Cummings, Ronnie Reagan and Ann Sheridan. I think I once read that she was an acting teacher. Not sure about that, though. Her scenes in those 2 were more than just one but she nailed them all.

[Badger]

She also played the Maharani of Ranchipur in "The Rains Came."   She was also a dancing teacher in "The Unfinished Dance."  I've never seen it but apparently she's most famous for her role as a gypsy in "The Wolf Man."

[Amello]

Funny that you brought up Dodsworth, where you explained that the women are less sympathetic than the man, because I watched When Ladies Meet (1933) yesterday, which I found fascinating, especially as a soap opera watcher who is used to theatrics. Two women openly and calmly and intelligently discussing the responsibilities and the feelings of all involved when a married man has an affair, neither yet realizing that Myrna Loy is having an affair with Frank Morgan, the husband of Ann Harding, whose having the frank discussion with Loy. And though the man isn't heavily villainized, he is still written to be in the wrong. And even then, the scene stealer is a hilarious Alice Brady, who I absolutely loved in this picture. It may have been a quieter picture, but a film I highly recommend.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Amello

[Bastet]

Ooh, I like When Ladies Meet for all the reasons you do and didn't realize it was on -- damn, I would have recorded it. 

[aradia22]

I thought When Ladies Meet had Joan Crawford and Greer Garson. I keep missing that one.

[Bastet]

They were in the 1941 version.

[Amello]

Ooh, I like When Ladies Meet for all the reasons you do and didn't realize it was on -- damn, I would have recorded it. 

 

Confession time. I watched it of my own accord, but I don't know where else to discuss older pictures except for in this thread. I hope that's okay.

[Charlie Baker]

I too must catch up with When Ladies Meet.

 

Saw (in real time!) San Francisco this AM for the first time since I was a kid.  What a grand, sometimes corny, overall irresistible product of old Hollywood that was.  Tracy and Gable are wonderful--their work is timeless.  I didn't have issues with Jeanette McDonald's acting--she's not in a league with the gentlemen, but she was fine.  Her singing is not tremendously appealing to my contemporary ears.  (I don't have the same issue most of the time with, say, Kathryn Grayson, or Deanna Durbin, or Jane Powell.)  And I love Ms. McD. in Love Me Tonight.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

And I love Ms. McD. in Love Me Tonight.

Me too.  I never really "got" her or Maurice Chevalier until I saw that one.  I probably like The Merry Widow the best of the others I've seen.

[Rinaldo]

Love Me Tonight is really something special, with the magic of those two stars at their peak, the inventiveness of Rodgers & Hart creating the unusual songs, and the master hand of Rouben Mamoulian controlling it all. In some ways, movie musicals still haven't caught up to it since.

[Rick Kitchen]

It always amazes me when I think that San Francisco was filmed only 30 years after the San Francisco earthquake.  That's like a movie filmed today that was set in 1984.  American Hustle is set in a time period older than that.

[Charlie Baker]

The remake of Godfrey was not a good idea.  Stars aside, the story and tone seem very much of their time.  And of course you can't really put those stars aside.

 

I agree that if anyone is wondering why Chevalier was such a big deal, they should see Love Me Tonight.  And the movie still feels so fresh and fun.  I just wish the footage of my beloved Myrna Loy singing a chorus of "Mimi" still existed.

 

I do think part of the point of San Francisco and

that flash forward to the 1930s skyline at the end

was to show how far the city had come in the thirty years.

[Bastet]

Love Me Tonight is really something special, with the magic of those two stars at their peak, the inventiveness of Rodgers & Hart creating the unusual songs, and the master hand of Rouben Mamoulian controlling it all.

 

Not to mention the few but delightful scenes of Myrna Loy as Countess Valentine.  My favorite parts of a thoroughly enjoyable film.  Like Charlie Baker, I wish her musical number (cut in Code release due to the transparency of her nightgown) had been restored for posterity.

[aradia22]

Speaking of remakes, I recorded The Opposite Sex and while I've seen some of The Women (I remember Joan in the tub and when they were at the ranch) I've never caught it in its entirety. Do you think I should risk watching the remake before the original?

[Rinaldo]

I think you can, in this case. Usually I say "see the original first," but The Opposite Sex is so much less memorable, you might as well see it on its own and get whatever enjoyment it gives you, and then see The Women and see what was different.

 

I should make clear that although The Women is some kind of classic, I don't find it of exalted aesthetic quality (nor is the play it's based on) -- it's good trashy fun for a cast of pros to have fun performing. I rewatched it recently for the first time in years and discovered some things I had forgotten or never knew:

• Adrian really went berserk with the costumes. I really wonder that a tasteful director like George Cukor didn't tell him to go back and try again.
• I tend to think of Norma Shearer as kind of limited as an actress, but she's really very believable and enjoyable in the early scenes of the movie, horsing around with her children and watching her bitchy friends with unaffected amusement. As the story develops, she does turn into the weepy noble star I remembered, but she's good in the first half hour or so.
• I'm not the world's biggest Joan Crawford fan, but she plays Crystal (the "other woman") very well. The odd thing, though, is that far from being a hot young siren who's a threat to all these pampered wives, she's about the same age they are, and looks it.
• As we head out to Reno for the divorces, two new presences show up, and boy are they welcome: Mary Boland as a much-married flibbertigibbet going on about "l'amour" (she was a huge stage star, a headliner, in the period preceding this movie, and it's easy to see why) and Paulette Goddard, who's just a firecracker -- all by herself she picks up the movie's tempo and makes it twice as much fun.

[3pwood]

Where has this thread been all my life?!  I never saw it on TWoP -- no surprise, really, because I had such a hard time finding anything under the very odd category system there.  So glad to see this here, full of affectionate & smart insights from people who love TCM & old movies the way I do. 

[mariah23]

I haven't been on this thread for awhile.  I thought I would start something new.  What was your favorite movie or theme this May on TCM?

On a sadder note, Oscar-nominated actress Joan Lorring has died.

[Kitkat52]

A movie that I never see on TCM (I think Fox Classics may have shown it before) is "No Down Payment" with Joanne Woodward, Tony Randall, Jeffrey Hunter, etc. In fact, I had to buy this gem on IOffer since it is really not on DVD either. I recommend this highly, if by some chance it is ever shown again.

I also love "Full of Life" with the wonderful Judy Holliday. That one is not on DVD either - I had to record it from, I believe TCM - many years ago. Those two movies are among my treasures in my movie collection.

I am thrilled to find this thread! I didn't realize until now that the late TWOP had a forum for this wonderful network.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Kitkat52

[prican58]

TCM is airing Leave Her To Heaven this afternoon. To anyone who has never seen it I urge you not to miss it. I first saw it when I was about 12 or so and maybe it was because I was an impressionable child but I was blown away!  I had only seen Gene Tierney in Laura (On right now BTW) and she knocked me out! The color was lovely as well. You must watch this film.

 

I just watched Barefoot Contessa. I've never been able to stick with it but I did and glad of it.  Ben M must be pretty amazed and proud of his grandfather for being behind 3 really good films. Letter To Three Wives, All About Eve and this one. Not sure if Contessa is a great film but it is very good and very interesting. Love Joseph L.'s insight to show biz. 

 

Today is a good day on TCM. Yesterday, not so much.

[ratgirlagogo]

I'm looking forward to tonight's silent movie - The Cossacks with John Gilbert and Renee Adoree, based on the Tolstoy story, and a movie I've never seen.    Also the Turner Import, this week from Russia - Nine Days of One Year, a film I've never even heard of but looks fascinating, if not exactly cheery.

Edited June 1, 2014 by ratgirlagogo

[Milburn Stone]

Ben M must be pretty amazed and proud of his grandfather for being behind 3 really good films. Letter To Three Wives, All About Eve and this one. Not sure if Contessa is a great film but it is very good and very interesting. Love Joseph L.'s insight to show biz.

 

Ben's grandfather was Herman Mankiewicz, co-screenwriter of Citizen Kane (so not too shabby). Joseph Mankiewicz was a great uncle or something.

[Badger]

I actually saw "The Opposite Sex" years before I ever saw "The Women."  I read "The Women" a year or so after I saw TOS and I kept thinking that the plot of the play seemed really familiar.  Then I realized what it was and I started looking out for the movie of "The Women."

 

Speaking of Joan Lorring, I loved "The Corn is Green."  

[aradia22]

Slightly off topic but I saw Lorna Luft perform in a concert tonight. She's no Judy but she knows her way around a cabaret number.

 

Edited to add that I'm checking the schedule and Night Nurse is playing June 11 at 6:00 am. Happy birthday to me! Everybody who hasn't already seen it watch, so we can talk about it.

Edited June 2, 2014 by aradia22

[aradia22]

OK, so I sat down to watch The Opposite Sex today. Oh, boy. 20 minutes in and I was already thinking, I don't think I can sit through the problematic gender politics of this movie. Yeah, most movies aren't exemplary examples of feminist ideal but this was... uh, no. Even Amanda who is presumably the "good" friend in this scenario gives terrible backward advice. The musical numbers are dull and devoid of charm. This time the gossip angle seemed to function as a distraction from the husband's faults and to absolve him of blame.

 

I may be wrong about this but they did let June Allyson lip-sync for that one ballad? If so, it was a strange choice. Why let her sing the other numbers? It's like when Debbie Reynold's voice is suddenly different in Singin' in the Rain. Also, I was confused by the number she did in the blue suit. Was that supposed to be a show or was it for the radio? Why would they do a big production like that for the radio? When June Allyson sings a swing or jazzy number she seems like the whitest girl in the world. It's like a Dreamgirls Cadillac Car kind of thing.

 

I did get a laugh out of the guy with the canoe, and the paddle, and the convenient guitar. Though obviously, it's a 50's-60's movie so yes, let's kiss women against their will. No means yes and even when she's about to hit him with the paddle, she gives in because... gah. If there's one thing these movies always reinforce, it's why this big wave of feminism happened when it did. Well, at least she jumped out of the boat. But, wow, this movie hates women so much. 

 

On the plus side, I did like the costumes. Debbie was very cute. And Ann Miller had sparkle. I wish she had a better part in this movie.

 

Also, I was convinced that Sylvia was played by Betty Bruce (Gypsy) and not Dolores Gray so I probably liked her a little more because of that. I think it was the hair.

[Rinaldo]

Yes, and don't expect the gender politics in The Women to be any better. But the acting, writing, and direction are better (well, obviously; it's talked about all the time while The Opposite Sex is essentially forgotten and ignored). No men are seen in the movie, so at least such moments as you describe can't happen. And depending on one's personal outlook, it's possible to decide that these silly women are such a minute slice of the upper class that they don't represent all womenkind, they're like a scientific study of a rarefied culture (a point underlined in the opening credits, where each character morphs into a different animal). Or not, of course.

[aradia22]

I'm waiting for The Women to come back on the schedule. Oddly enough, I think The Opposite Sex made me want to see it more. It's one of those movies I always record and then let languish on the DVR.

[HyeChaps]

Ah, A Hard Day's Night.  My mother took me to see it when I was eight.  Everyone in the theatre screamed as if we were at a concert.  So great in black and white.  If it was in color, it would have caused heads to explode.

[Notwisconsin]

The thing right after A Hard Day's Night was AWFUL. I know that nobody knew the MC was a pervert at the time, but the lip synching was bad, and while a number of the numbers were familier, I'm not sure how they picked the most of the groups, (Humpty DUMPTY?!? YEEECH!!!!) but they didn't do all that good a job.

[Lois Sandborne]

The musical numbers are dull and devoid of charm.

 

This is the biggest sin, in my mind, of a movie that was already going to hell in a handbasket for adding men where no men were necessary. If "we're making it a musical!" is going to be your excuse for redoing an iconic film just 15 years after its initial release, then your music had better be friggin fabulous, and plentiful. And then they wasted Ann Miller, too? Shame on them.
 

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Edited to add that I'm checking the schedule and Night Nurse is playing June 11 at 6:00 am. Happy birthday to me! Everybody who hasn't already seen it watch, so we can talk about it.

Well, happy birthday to you in advance.  Night Nurse is a favorite of mine so I'll be happy to have a conversation about it .

[mariah23]

Sad News:

 

Mona Freeman has died.

[Rinaldo]

There's a 1951 Mona Freeman movie that I'd like to see (it was written up in a book I own about director Mitchell Leisen), Darling, How Could You? It's an adaptation of J.M. Barrie's play Alice Sit-by-the-Fire, with Freeman cast as (per usual) a teenager whose parents (Joan Fontaine, John Lund) return after years away. Nobody considered it anything special then, but it sounds cute or at least an interesting minor artifact, and it seems forgotten now. It's never shown.

[Bastet]

Unable to sleep in the wee hours, I watched Topaze, the pre-Code film with John Barrymore in a very un-Barrymore role and Myrna Loy as an un-archetypal kept woman.  I kept having “Is that really John Barrymore?” moments. 

 

While its cynical take on then-modern industrial society feels rather simplistic now (and might have then; the play’s satire was toned down for the film, and the script is pretty thin), the basic idea translates (and, in thinking on it, the Sparkling Topaze plot is pretty much how I feel about bottled water).  Dr. Topaze’s “if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em” transformation seems abrupt, but then you step back and think about how many illusions he’s had shattered in fewer than 24 hours.  (His naivete strains credulity for me, so I love that Coco is just as incredulous when she realizes.)  And that it turns into “join ‘em, and then beat ‘em at their own game” makes for a greatly enjoyable scene in Topaze’s new office, and I just love Coco’s sheer delight at realizing

her affair with the baron is how Topaze is going to pull one over on him.

 

The film is a bit weird, although I have a soft spot for movies essentially done as filmed plays, and incredibly plodding in the classroom scenes, but worth watching for Barrymore (and just about anything is worth watching for Loy, plus I find this time period when she was just starting to get better roles interesting, even though she doesn't yet have a lot to do).

 

I think it's going to be a long time before I stop finding it odd to spoiler tag 80-year-old films.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Bastet

[ratgirlagogo]

Yes, I was pretty fascinated by Topaze too, although I was kind of distracted while watching it while doing other things.  It did make me wonder how much was changed from the original Pagnol play which I haven't read.

 

Myrna Loy as an un-archetypal kept woman.  I kept having “Is that really John Barrymore?” moments.

Do you mean she's in a non-archetypal Myrna Loy role, or that she played that part in a non-archetypal way?  Because  weren't almost all her parts until The Thin Man  bad girl roles like this? - often sympathetic and always scene-stealing, but baddish.  Barrymore in this seemed very Barrymore to me also, kind of old-fashioned stagey but enjoyable, and in one of his beloved camoflaging makeups.  I assume you mean he didn't seem like Barrymore because it was so not a leading man kind of role, which I get, but it was also SUCH an actor's showpiece role that it actually did seem like a First Family of the American Theater kind of role.    Did he play this on the stage? 

Edited June 9, 2014 by ratgirlagogo

[Bastet]

That Coco is an unarchetypal kept woman (which is, in turn, typical of Loy's post-exotic but pre-perfect wife roles).  She and the baron feel like a married couple (I love the opening scene), and she's more sophisticated, smarter, stronger, more accomplished and more level-headed than most mistress characters of the time. 

 

Topaze feels more like a Frank Morgan role to me (although, yes, the theatrical actor's showpiece nature of it is vintage Barrymore), and indeed I believe Morgan is the one who played it on stage.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Bastet

[ratgirlagogo]

Okay, understood.

 

Topaze feels more like a Frank Morgan role to me (although, yes, the theatrical actor's showpiece nature of it is vintage Barrymore), and indeed I believe Morgan is the one who played it on stage.

Cool!  I love Frank Morgan and I did not know that - I love him in the movies but I don't know much at all about his stage career.

[elle]

Interesting movie Boy Meets Girl 1938, flirting with the code a bit.  All works out in the end.

 

I love seeing James Cagney in a fun role, so young and so handsome!   And by his side Pat O'Brien, do not expect "Angels with Dirty Faces".  There is also stalwart Ralph Bellamy as a bellowing, flustered "college educated" producer and add in Marie Wilson as the girl, who... well it is not the way to run a studio.

Edited June 11, 2014 by elle

[prican58]

elle, I had seen Boy Meets Girl before. I thought it was fun seeing Cagney being a little nutty (in a funny way, not in a White Heat way). I am always going to watch a film with him, O'Brien and the always adorable Frank McHugh. And say, Bellamy could do it all, couldn't he?

 

I also watched A Child is Born right after that and I must say that it got to me in a totally sentimental way. Even with  late 20th/21st century sensibilities I felt complete sympathy for all the characters. I recognized Nanette Fabray right away and she was spelling her last name Fabares just like her niece Shelley, which i understand is the correct way to spell it. 

 

I found it interesting that Gladys George's character sang Melancholy Baby in it b/c that was the song Priscilla Lane sang in Roaring Twenties. Lane's character was the girl who "stole" Cagney from GG in Roaring Twenties.

 

I saw Brother Rat and a Baby as well. I tend to be loyal to actors that I'd seen as a kid when I first discovered these films and Roaring Twenties was one of them. (I also have small crush on George Brent b/c I saw quite a few of his films with Bette Davis back then and fell for his mustache.) Hence my soft spot for Lane. I love watching Ronald Reagan. Even though he didn't have many KIngs Row's in his resume he is just so likeable on screen. Eddie Albert was so cute in this and I find that I really like Wayne Morris! Good chem with Ms Lane.

 

Today was a really good schedule of old films and I wish I could have had the day off to be lazy and watch them all. 

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Today was a really good schedule of old films and I wish I could have had the day off to be lazy and watch them all.

Ain't it the truth.  Or even a completely empty DVR. 

[Crisopera]

Myrna Loy played a few of these "atypical" kept women characters - in fact, the film that got her The Thin Man was Manhattan Melodrama (1934) in which she played Clark Gable's mistress who falls for the honest-and-upright William Powell.  Another is the very entertaining Penthouse (1933), in which she plays a call girl.  And since they're both (just) pre-code, she isn't punished.

[Bastet]

Yep, the unarchetypal  "kept woman" character - who in addition to being more of all the adjectives I previously listed is also living or on her way to living a different life by the end, without having to beat herself up over her past - was a typical role for Myrna Loy in that era.  Sort of her transition period from exotic vamp to the urbane wife.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Bastet

[Badger]

Regarding A Child is Born, they showed the Pre-Code version of that movie earlier yesterday morning.  It's called Life Begins and starred Loretta Young.

[elle]

Myrna Loy movie alert - Thirteen Women will be on this morning.  Myrna in one of those exotic roles in which she was so often cast.  A bonus, Irene Dunne as the one of the women who wronged Myrna's character so many years ago.

 

One thing that I found curious about this movie is that one of the women is in circus act with her sister.  As snobbish as these women are, I would think, at that time, she would be not part of their circle.

Edited June 13, 2014 by elle

[Bastet]

That movie is weird (and cut so short - how many of the women do we actually see, ten?).  One would think MGM would have been through sticking Myrna Loy in those "exotic" roles by then, but it still took them a bit longer to catch on.  Thank the universe for Woody Van Dyke.

[mariah23]

Okay, now this is getting ridiculous!!!  In the past week, Martha Hyer, Ruby Dee and now Carla Laemmle have died.