TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[bmoore4026]

"Molasses to rum to slaves" always gives me chills.  Rutledge calling out the Northern Colonies hypocrisy is a brilliant scene, and the terrible sacrifice Adams and the others had to make to insure independence seems so hard to fathom.  

 

And Franklin comment about "How will posterity judge us?  As demigods?" is terribly ironic considering The Founding Fathers have all been but officially declared as deities.

 

Lastly, Ken Howard is the hottest Thomas Jefferson there's been.  But would Jefferson have really freed his slaves if the anti-slavery clause was kept?

Edited July 4, 2015 by bmoore4026

[CMH1981]

I tried, I honestly tried to watch 1776 but I just couldn't get into it.  The cross pollination of a musical and historical colonial times just didn't work for me.  Someone will have to explain the allure of this film b/c I sure didn't get it, and i'm a huge fan of musicals.

[bmoore4026]

Someone will have to explain the allure of this film b/c I sure didn't get it, and i'm a huge fan of musicals.

 

Admittedly, yes, it can be a boring musical.  Two to three hours of mostly people talking without much forward action can be pretty dry, yet C-SPAN continues to exist.

 

For me, it's the interaction between Adams, Jefferson, and Franklin.  The actors had such great chemistry.

[Crs97]

CMH, I have the same problem. It is my favorite period in history and I love musicals, but I try and fail each year to make it through 1776. When Jefferson gets writer's block and we get the love song with his wife to get his juices flowing again, that's when I finally give up and use the fast-forward button. However, that last scene when It comes down to the final vote - I could watch that moment forever. I think it's one of the few stories that works better without the music for me.

[Rinaldo]

Having been such a grump about 1776, may I offer partial amends by saying how happy I am that TCM is showing The Music Man at 10:15 this evening. I was once asked what I would name as the most satisfying film made from a stage musical, and after thinking my way through many alternatives, I was happy to name The Music Man. Each time I return to the question, I come up with the same answer. It's a wonderful show (much more profound than it's often given credit for), wonderfully filmed. The real essentials from the stage cast were kept (director Morton Da Costa, star Robert Preston, the Buffalo Bills -- and Pert Kelton may not be essential but it's nice to have her too), and all the new casting was ideally chosen. That never happens, does it? Shirley Jones, Paul Ford, Hermione Gingold, Buddy Hackett (best use of him ever), Timmy Everett, Susan Luckey, right down to adorable little Ronny Howard. Everything goes right in this one, and the only reason I probably won't tune in is that I own the DVD and watch it all the time -- and use it in my teaching of History of Musicals. This is a gem.

[Rick Kitchen]

Not only Molasses to Rum to Slaves, but Mama Look Sharp.  Both are tear-enducing.

[CMH1981]

So based off of tonight's Essentials program, it looks like "Yankee Doodle Dandy" was forced by the network due to the program falling on the holiday and not a true pick of Osborne or Field.  I found that interesting.

 

I didn't watch tonight's showing b/c I watched the movie not long ago when it was on the network, but I did record it for the conversation b/t Robert and Sally before and after.  Do we know why TCM.com doesn't put up video of the Essential conversations online for each season/episode?  I find them so interesting, well mostly for Robert's comments and for the guest host who has more than likely read the trivia section of imdb.com to get their talking points.  To be fair it is hard to go toe to toe with Osborne in regards to movie background/trivia.

 

When they were talking about Cagney's Oscar being up for auction and it only going for $800,000 I was surprised b/c I thought the Academy was supposed to get first dibs to buy the Oscar back for a $1 or something first.  I couldn't believe that Sally said she wouldn't have been able to afford the Oscar, i'm sure she was just joking but it just felt off for her to say that.

[Julia]

It depends when they won it. If it was before 1950 (I admit, I looked the year up, although not on IMDB) the winners didn't agree to sell their statues back.

[CMH1981]

Hmmm...I didn't know that there was a starting year for the buyback of the Oscars.  Sally made mention she was surprised that Steven Spielberg didn't purchase the Oscar then donate it back to the Academy like he has done in the past.

[Julia]

I believe the Academy has tried to make the case that you can't sell earlier Oscars(™), but for the later ones they have it in writing.

[HyeChaps]

My 1776 UO is that the theatrical release is way better paced and more compelling than the director's cut, and that the restored GOP gavotte brings the movie to a screeching halt while it's on the screen.

 

IMO, that was also the low point on Broadway.  Ho hum.

Edited July 5, 2015 by HyeChaps

[prican58]

Love Music Man as it justifies my feeling that Robert Preston is a very under appreciated actor. And also I love watching Shirley Jones do stuff to remind the world that she is more than Mrs Partridge.

 

I can never get around 1776, either. The music doesn't grab me.

Super double feature tonight with Duck Soup and The Great Dictator. Truly, I simply adore both films.   "All I can give you is a Rufus over your head." The Edgar Kennedy scenes with Harpo and Chico are so funny. Oh the mirror scene is coming. Yay!

 

I just wish tomorrow wasn't Monday. 

[Rinaldo]

I love all the casting and choreography and everything about The Music Man, as I've already said. But there's more. I used to defend it as a super piece of entertainment (which it is), but the story cuts surprisingly deep.

 

It's one of the central American myths: Europe has the Faust idea, the Don Juan legend, the star-crossed lovers, and we have The Con Man Who Isn't. The swindler who, unknown to himself, really can do the things he pretends to do. Harold Hill's scam is to trick the townspeople into paying for a band when (he thinks) he doesn't know anything about music. But what does he do while he's in River City? He turns a squabbling school board into a barbershop quartet; turns a gaggle of malicious ladies into a blissful modern dance troupe; turns a potential juvenile delinquent into an eager drum major; gives a sad self-conscious little boy a happy new life. What he teaches them all is that there's music everywhere, if you'll only listen, and it can bring you joy. It took me a long time to realize this, but it's right there in the ballad that I once stupidly dismissed as the bid for a hit song: "There were bells... but I never heard them ringing." And what a perfect story for a musical: it's a musical about the joy of music. It makes me very very happy every time I see it.

[Milburn Stone]

It's one of the central American myths: Europe has the Faust idea, the Don Juan legend, the star-crossed lovers, and we have The Con Man Who Isn't. The swindler who, unknown to himself, really can do the things he pretends to do. Harold Hill's scam is to trick the townspeople into paying for a band when (he thinks) he doesn't know anything about music. But what does he do while he's in River City? He turns a squabbling school board into a barbershop quartet; turns a gaggle of malicious ladies into a blissful modern dance troupe; turns a potential juvenile delinquent into an eager drum major; gives a sad self-conscious little boy a happy new life. What he teaches them all is that there's music everywhere, if you'll only listen, and it can bring you joy. It took me a long time to realize this, but it's right there in the ballad that I once stupidly dismissed as the bid for a hit song: "There were bells... but I never heard them ringing." And what a perfect story for a musical: it's a musical about the joy of music. It makes me very very happy every time I see it.

 

I used to think, "It's a scandal! It's a outrage! West Side Story was denied the Tony for Best Musical because it went to The Music Man???"

 

That was until I saw a production of The Music Man at the Stratford Festival a few years ago.

 

At which time I realized what an original, inventive, genre-breaking musical it was. Even at the same time it deals, as you say, in a central American myth. The Tony went to the right show.

 

[bmoore4026]

Just finished watching Duck Soup.  AFI can bite me - Duck Soup is the funniest movie of all time.  Not enough cleaver word play in comedies nowadays, or crazy shenanigans (that don't involve bodily fluids and explicit sex), or getting out of dire situations through the magic of stock footage, or musical numbers involving extras going "hidey hidey hoe".  God, that makes me sound like a fuddy-duddy, don't it?  And I'm 34.  But I like the old comedies over the ones nowadays.

 

Duck Soup is a movie needing multiple viewings in order to get all the jokes because they go by so fast.  That's the genius of The Marx Brothers.  Adam Sandler, Seth Macfarlene, Judd Apatow, and many other modern comedians pale so much in comparison that they're practically translucent.

 

One thing that I noticed in the opening number was how Firefly was going to ban everything pleasurable in Freedonia.  I was wondering if this was a jab against Prohibition?

[Rinaldo]

I used to think, "It's a scandal! It's a outrage! West Side Story was denied the Tony for Best Musical because it went to The Music Man???"... The Tony went to the right show.

Thanks for the agreement. On the Tony that year, my thinking is now, "My goodness, what a wonderful season -- with two such masterpieces to choose between. And what an impossible choice." Then, if any year, a tie would have been appropriate (and yes, I know voting doesn't happen with that kind of collusion).

 

They're both great. But certainly The Music Man is not less great.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Super double feature tonight with Duck Soup and The Great Dictator. Truly, I simply adore both films.

 

Just finished watching Duck Soup.  AFI can bite me - Duck Soup is the funniest movie of all time.

There is something WRONG with anybody who doesn't agree. I love Chaplin and I love the Marx Brothers and yes Duck Soup IS the funniest movie of all time.  SO THERE.

[CMH1981]

I have still never been able to figure how Robert Preston didn't at least garner a nomination from the Academy that year.

 

To think that once again Jack Warner again tried to push someone other than original actor from the Broadway production.  If the stories are indeed true we do have Cary Grant to thank for Preston in the Music Man and Harrison in My Fair Lady.

[Rinaldo]

There's another story that Warner wanted Frank Sinatra for Harold Hill (both may be true, of course). In that case, Meredith Willson was able to insist that Sinatra not be used.

 

In his book about the making of the stage musical, But He Doesn't Know the Territory, Willson mentions how dozens of musical stars were offered the role, and all turned it down. Preston was a late, and unlikely, choice. Willson points out that all his previous stage and screen roles had been of a very different sort, usually heavy drama, and that he had in effect been trapped in a wrong image. This is the role that allowed him to burst out as a light comedian, a nimble song-and-dance man, and (in the most complimentary sense of the word) a real ham -- someone who just loves to perform for an audience.

[bmoore4026]

There's another story that Warner wanted Frank Sinatra for Harold Hill (both may be true, of course). In that case, Meredith Willson was able to insist that Sinatra not be used.

 

Yeah, can't see Old Blue Eyes in the part.  Didn't look like the swindler type.

[CMH1981]

So Wilson obviously wanted Preston in the role, but Warner didn't think he was a big enough star so he tried to get a name for the role.  So like Grant, did all the other actors offered the role pass as well b/c they knew nobody could do it justice like Robert Preston?

[Crs97]

And isn't it true that "Seventy Six Trombones" and "There are Bells" are essentially variations of the same melody? If you strip both songs down, Marian and Harold have the same dream.

I love "The Music Man" and love your analysis, Rinaldo!

[Rinaldo]

And isn't it true that "Seventy Six Trombones" and "There are Bells" are essentially variations of the same melody? If you strip both songs down, Marian and Harold have the same dream.

Almost -- it's actually "Seventy-Six Trombones" and "Good Night, My Someone" that have the same melody. It's made explicit, so we'll notice it even if we missed it before, when both songs are reprised together after the footbridge scene late in the show: the two of them alternate phrases, and even trade songs (they each sing a bit of the other person's tune).

 

So yes, in the musical-theater tradition of Naughty Marietta (she knows the right man for her will be the one who can finish her song) and Lady in the Dark (the right man for her is the one who remembers the song that haunts her dreams), in The Music Man we can realize early on (if we're listening) that despite all appearances, Marian and Harold are right for each other. Because they sing (dream, as you said) the same song.

[Milburn Stone]

Almost -- it's actually "Seventy-Six Trombones" and "Good Night, My Someone" that have the same melody. It's made explicit, so we'll notice it even if we missed it before, when both songs are reprised together after the footbridge scene late in the show: the two of them alternate phrases, and even trade songs (they each sing a bit of the other person's tune).

 

So yes, in the musical-theater tradition of Naughty Marietta (she knows the right man for her will be the one who can finish her song) and Lady in the Dark (the right man for her is the one who remembers the song that haunts her dreams), in The Music Man we can realize early on (if we're listening) that despite all appearances, Marian and Harold are right for each other. Because they sing (dream, as you said) the same song.

 

 

This brings to my mind that one of the reasons the show works so well as an exploration of a central American myth is that the score is so American. It has a bit of everything: Stephen Fosterish melody ("Goodnight My Someone"); marching band ("Seventy Six Trombones," even though it's the same melody); barbershop quartet; even a bit of jazz, if you stretch things a bit, in the syncopated train rhythms of "Rock Island." And I think I hear a hint of George M. Cohan in "Trouble."

 

If you could feel Willson's effort in this to cover so many American bases, it might seem tiresome or too cute, but you don't feel the effort, so it doesn't. You go with him on his journey through American music feeling nothing but the joy he means you to feel.

[Crisopera]

Meredith Willson is one of the great examples of "He had one great show in him".  The Music Man is a genuine masterpiece - and his other shows are awful.  (I don't know if I'm in a minority hating The Unsinkable Molly Brown, but it's really terrible -  a musical essentially about a social climber.  And I think Debbie Reynolds is god-awful in the movie - screechy and over the top.  Harve Presnell sang nicely, though.)  Every time I see Music Man I'm so grateful that the casting was so spot-on - I can't tell you how much I love Paul Ford and Hermione Gingold (the only Englishwoman in Iowa, apparently).

[Rinaldo]

This brings to my mind that one of the reasons [The Music Man] works so well as an exploration of a central American myth is that the score is so American. It has a bit of everything: Stephen Fosterish melody ("Goodnight My Someone"); marching band ("Seventy Six Trombones," even though it's the same melody); barbershop quartet; even a bit of jazz, if you stretch things a bit, in the syncopated train rhythms of "Rock Island." And I think I hear a hint of George M. Cohan in "Trouble."

I think all of that is true, and the list of Americana could be extended. (I agree about a whiff of Cohan, maybe more in the required vocal delivery than the composition, in "Trouble.") We have a bit of honky-tonk ragtime in "The Sadder-but-Wiser Girl"; a boogie-woogie beat for "Marian the Librarian"; a hoe-down for "Shipoopi" followed by a Vernon Castle one-step (the new tune late in the dance when Harold and Marian show off a new step); musical signals of the Old West in "The Wells Fargo Wagon." Any good show composer tries for variety over the length of a score, of course; but I think it's no accident that so many of these are archetypes of American history or folklore.

 

Crisopera, on the whole I agree that Willson had one great show in him. (I do think that Molly Brown is much better on stage than on screen -- more songs, for one thing -- but still in the end unsalvageable because it has no through-line, nothing to root for, which leads to my point...) In my opinion the fundamental problem is that Willson was a gifted composer and lyricist, but not so much as a librettist, a constructor of plays -- and how often is one person excellent at all three things? (Porter and Sondheim didn't try to write their own librettos.) For The Music Man, a play doctor was brought in at a late point in development to help lick the structure -- Franklin Lacey receives collaborator credit for "story." The book of Molly Brown is by Richar Morris, and he apparently could neither overcome the episodic structure of her life (like most real lives) nor say "to hell with history" and write a more satisfying story. Willson did his own book without help for Here's Love, and it flopped; people are still trying to "fix" it, as a musical version of Miracle on 34th Street could be marketable if it was any good. For 1491, Willson wrote the book with 3 named collaborators ("and," "additional material by," "based on an idea by"), and it was so hopeless it closed in California and has never been seen again.

[Julia]

I wonder if The Unsinkable Molly Brown couldn't have been saved by a minor structural change. I think the whole thing would have been much more compelling if we'd seen her pull a gun on the lifeboat first and the rest of the movie was a Who the hell is this woman in the jewels and why is she so good with a gun? flashback leading back to the Titanic and what happened.

 

I think Debbie Reynolds was all wrong for it, honestly. She just wasn't ever vulgar enough. As much as it surprises me to say so, I think Betty Hutton would have done a much better job.

[Crs97]

Good Night, My Someone - of course! Clearly I need to watch it again to make up for my lamentable memory!!

[Charlie Baker]

Not as big a fan of The Music Man as some of you, but it is enjoyable, on stage and on film. And very difficult for any other actor to follow Preston in the role.

I wondered why "My White Knight" was replaced with "Being in Love" for the movie--and there's a section of the former interpolated into the latter.

Saw or read an interview with Ron Howard--don't remember where--where he said he was completely hopeless with dancing, so for his little dance break for "Gary, Indiana"  he had to be photographed from the knees up. 

Edited July 6, 2015 by Charlie Baker

[Sharpie66]

I'm loving the breakdown of Music Man here--really terrific analysis!!  I just love the movie, and had the chance to see it on stage in Chicago back in 1980 with Dick Van Dyke, but the Wednesday matinee was the only performance that he called sick for, so we got the understudy instead (who was decent and fit the physical look of Preston). I even had a college friend who was in the play in high school; he was one of the board members, and his director did something clever since they didn't have the necessary male voices for the barbershop quartet--they turned the board into a brass quartet, and my friend was the trombonist! I don't know how they fudged the members having to tote around their instruments all the time, but it's an interesting option for having a limited casting pool.

 

Back on the subject of 1776, I grew up watching that movie on tv, and I fell for that film when I was not even in my teens. I'm a big history geek, and even though I knew even then that the writer played fast and loose with some of the details, it all felt so authentic to me, and the characters were so entertaining to watch, that I watched it every July. After that film, I became a big fan of both John and Abigail and have read as much as I can about them and their marriage.

 

I loved the episode of St. Elsewhere when the William Daniels character and his wife go to Philadelphia for some medical convention, and the show's writers slip in all of these 1776 references throughout the script that cracked me up. "God, it's hot as hell in Philly!" (When talking about his fellow doctors at the hospital) "I'm obnoxious and disliked!" etc. Very funny!

[Julia]

Back on the subject of 1776, I grew up watching that movie on tv, and I fell for that film when I was not even in my teens. I'm a big history geek, and even though I knew even then that the writer played fast and loose with some of the details, it all felt so authentic to me, and the characters were so entertaining to watch, that I watched it every July. After that film, I became a big fan of both John and Abigail and have read as much as I can about them and their marriage.

We bought the movie as part of our raise the kid on classic movies instead of having cable (or for a long time a working antenna) strategy, and she was a huge fan of the relationship between those two, and we watched it a lot. So we were so tickled to get to Independence Hall and feel as if we'd been there before, right up until the docent positively sniffed and told her of course, we wouldn't have anything to do with that and it was all filmed on sets. So apparently the historians weren't excited either...

We got cable again when she was 17 as part of a high speed internet package, and what currently passes for popular enertainment came as a pretty big shock. I think we definitely missed the right decade and a half.

[Rinaldo]

I wondered why "My White Knight" was replaced with "Being in Love" for the movie--and there's a section of the former interpolated into the latter.

Oddly, even to my 14-year-old self seeing it on first release, this made instant sense to me. I must have been an over-analytical blowhard even at that age. 

 

I had played the original cast recording a lot in the years since its release, and had seen the show twice onstage, once during the national tour's Chicago run (where I, like sharpie66, got an understudy [Harry Hickox, who usually played the anvil salesman and plays him in the movie] rather than the star [Forrest Tucker]), and a few years later in summer stock, where I finally got to see Forrest Tucker. All that exposure had solidified the idea for me that "My White Knight" was different from most of the other songs; it wasn't based on any of the Americana tropes Milburn Stone and I listed, it was basically an aria-style presentation straight to the live audience (yes, ostensibly she's explaining to her mother) that convinces us in part by her vocal splendor.

 

And I thought as we were getting ready to see the movie, "That's going to be a hard song to make convincing on film. There's no live audience to address, and the vocal 'size' of it may seem silly with the camera close to her." (I'm not saying I was that articulate to myself, but my jumbled thoughts were in that neighborhood.) So, when I realized that a new song had been substituted, with the same "recitative" middle section but otherwise with more of a pop beat (rather upbeat-swingy for 1912 but that doesn't matter at all) and an intimate feel, that seemed like a completely right decision to me.

 

(Incidentally, for those who don't know the show's gestation story: "My White Knight" was one of the songs that reached its final form rather late in the out-of-town tryout period. Meredith Willson had composed it as another patter song -- her big "Trouble"-style solo, though sung rather than spoken. (Here's a live rendition from a Barbara Cook concert, decades later.) Everyone in the production was in awe of her performance, Willson tells us, but audiences responded only tepidly, and it clearly wasn't working for them. Eventually they realized that in a first act otherwise stuffed with novelty numbers, Marian's big solo needed to be straightforward and sincere. And so he changed the routine, omitting the patter and leading the number off with a big melodic statement. And then, after all that work, it was replaced for the movie.)

[CMH1981]

I just got done watching the Misfits, wow that was one good movie.  I always love reading the background after I watch a film, and hoo-boy was this one a doozie.  I really felt the movie came together despite the issues from Monroe and Clift.  

 

I'll be honest I felt that the romance b/t Gable and Monroe was a little....lecherous?  I know he was supposed to be playing a hard rode guy in his 40's, but I just didn't buy it.  For that matter what was w/ Monroe and Ritter going out to the country w/ two strangers to a remote cabin?  I guess perhaps back then it wouldn't be as worrisome as it is in today's times.

 

I couldn't believe the many, many, many times Marilyn almost exposed her breast in this film....from the scene in bed, to the barely there bikini top, then tending to a drunken Gable in the street.  

 

I'm a true fan of Thelma Ritter so I was kinda disappointed that she wasn't in the film all the way through.  

 

I'm ashamed to say this, but this is my first major exposure to Eli Wallach (outside of the campy Batman series).  He blew me away when he was telling Monroe the backstory about his wife.

 

I know that Arthur Miller wrote this more or less for his wife, Marilyn, but it really felt that he was trying to tell the story of Marilyn here where her character couldn't stand seeing something that wanted nothing more to be free almost being sent to the slaughter after being tied down.  I'm sure i'm not the only one who could see the parallels in the characters.

I also caught the movie the Stranger w/ Orson Welles, Edward G Robinson, and Loretta Young. I love these spy-type thrillers, they really catch my interest. Why can't they make films like these anymore...

Edited July 7, 2015 by CMH1981

[Milburn Stone]

We bought the movie as part of our raise the kid on classic movies instead of having cable (or for a long time a working antenna) strategy...We got cable again when she was 17 as part of a high speed internet package, and what currently passes for popular enertainment came as a pretty big shock. I think we definitely missed the right decade and a half.

 

I salute you.

[prican58]

Came home to see that Adventures of Robin Hood was coming on. It is one of my all time favorite and fun movies. It's fun from top to bottom. It made my day.

 

I've always fantasized a double feature of this and Gunga Din as they both jockey for the #1 position in my heart. And I think I need to make it a triple feature with The Mask of Zorro if for no other reason to see the ever luscious Basil Rathbone rattling sabres with Flynn and Ty Power.

[Rinaldo]

Came home to see that Adventures of Robin Hood was coming on. It is one of my all time favorite and fun movies. It's fun from top to bottom. It made my day.

I agree that it's enormously entertaining, but I want to put in a word also for Disney's The Story of Robin Hood. This dates from the period in the 1950s when the company had a team in the UK that shot live-action classic adventure stories, and this is probably my favorite of the lot (though the Treasure Island is also memorable). I have fantasies of gathering a congenial crowd to watch both versions as a double feature.

[Rick Kitchen]

Came home to see that Adventures of Robin Hood was coming on. It is one of my all time favorite and fun movies. It's fun from top to bottom. It made my day.

 

The Sherwood Forest scenes were filmed in Bidwell Park, a huge city park in the small Northern California town of Chico.  My dad remembered watching them film in 1938.  (Scarlett's mansion, where Rhett carried her up the stairs to their bedroom, was also a real place in Chico.  Scenes from Friendly Persuasion were also shot there).

[Rick Kitchen]

Hmmm.  When I was part of an archaeology crew digging at Corriganville in Simi Valley we were tolt that parts of the Sherwood Forest scenes were filmed there by the historian...

 

Parts of it were.  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0029843/locations?ref_=tt_ql_dt_6

[mariah23]

Sad news: Omar Sharif has died at age 83.

[elle]

Sad news: Omar Sharif has died at age 83.

Yes, very sad!  (news item)

 

We were posting about actresses and in which movie they were filmed best, in that same vein, I would say that "Doctor Zhivago" captures the beauty of Omar Sharif the best.  Although, for a scene, I have to mention his introduction in "Funny Girl" as the top one.

[monakane]

I tried, I honestly tried to watch 1776 but I just couldn't get into it.  The cross pollination of a musical and historical colonial times just didn't work for me.  Someone will have to explain the allure of this film b/c I sure didn't get it, and i'm a huge fan of musicals.

 

I have the same problem.  I tried to watch it, but I just couldn't get into it.  I might have enjoyed it more if it was non-musical because I did enjoy the actors.  Although non-one will every match Paul Giamatti's John Adams.

[Dirtybubble]

I tried, I honestly tried to watch 1776 but I just couldn't get into it.  The cross pollination of a musical and historical colonial times just didn't work for me.  Someone will have to explain the allure of this film b/c I sure didn't get it, and i'm a huge fan of musicals.

 

Agreed!  As far as patriotic musicals go none can top James Cagney in Yankee Doodle Dandy it's my go to for the 4th of July.  Maybe because 1776 is actual facts and we know of the struggle America faced freeing themselves from the British to put that struggle to music just seems weird.  Yankee Doodle is just so uplifting and that's what I think of when I think of musicals.

 

 

Although non-one will every match Paul Giamatti's John Adams.

Whew you said a mouthful there!  See maybe that's why 1776 doesn't work for me; I've saw Giamatti's John Adams first and saw how dark it can get so to put that to music--IDK just weird.

[Rinaldo]

I think the story told in 1776 could be set to music well, but Sherman Edwards didn't have the taste or skill to do it. He had never written a stage score before (and would not again), and that's a craft that takes a lot of training and/or experience to get right. It's just just plugging songs into a story. His previous musical experience had been in writing for the recording industry; among his better known titles in that realm are "Dungaree Doll" (Eddie Fisher), "Wonderful, Wonderful" (Johnny Mathis), and "See You in September" (the Tempos). I sometimes wonder what this show would have been like with a score by Bock & Harnick, or Kander & Ebb, or Strouse & Adams.

 

However, I'm about to get my punishment for being so unkind about it. The Encores! series to which I have subscribed since it began 23 years ago has scheduled it for next spring. I knew it would come up some year. So I'll attend and sit through it. (The other two titles, fortunately, are much more inviting: Cabin in the Sky and Do I Hear a Waltz.)

[Wiendish Fitch]

Boy, 1776 is a popular topic on this board. Someone ought to make a separate board for it.

[elle]

I have the same problem.  I tried to watch it, but I just couldn't get into it.  I might have enjoyed it more if it was non-musical because I did enjoy the actors.  Although non-one will every match Paul Giamatti's John Adams.

That is how I feel about William Daniels' John Adams!  

 

Boy, 1776 is a popular topic on this board. Someone ought to make a separate board for it.

It is every July!  :0)

[ratgirlagogo]

 

It is every July!  :0)

And how.  I'm at the point where I look forward to it.

[elle]

And how.  I'm at the point where I look forward to it.

Just like looking forward to seeing the movie (or not)!

 

This made me wonder, I know we often have lively discussions about movies, but I can not think of a movie that does have such a heated following on both sides AND one can almost set your watch to the beginning of the discussion.

[bmoore4026]

Just caught the end of Kiss Me Deadly.  Holy shit, was that freaky!  I'm amazed that they were able to show what they did, considering it was the 50s.  Plus that creepy ass sound.

 

And even though Mike Hammer and Velda escape, they're still screwed in terms of radiation.  Noir don't get as dark as that.

 

Blue Dahlia is on tonight.  Might watch it.  Oh, and Howard Da Silva is in it.  1776 strikes again!

Edited July 11, 2015 by bmoore4026

[elle]

Blue Dahlia is on tonight.  Might watch it.  Oh, and Howard Da Silva is in it.  1776 strikes again!

After seeing Howard Da Silva in 1776 for years, it came as quite a shock to see him in Unconquered!* as a really unlikeable villain.  

*(wow! that is some poster on imdb)

 

I think another reason I love 1776 is for all the performances that were captured.  I watched "Northern Exposure" and it was a long time before I realized that "Holling" (John Cullum) was the SC rep Rutledge.  Even more surprising was to realize that the NY rep Morris was played by Howard Caine, who I knew as Maj. Hochstetter from "Hogan's Heros"!

 

Did anyone get to see Duck Soup on TCM early this AM? 

[Charlie Baker]

Seemed like unusual scheduling to put Duck Soup on a Saturday morning, but I did see roughly the last half of it  Of course it's bliss, and bless Margaret Dumont while I'm at it.  It struck me this time that it looks like there could have been big cuts once the war gets into full swing--the brothers are seen in different costumes/uniforms throughout the sequence.  It's a short movie.