Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Serena]

Thanks, sharky! I too would like to know about the Neal scene. I can handle Regina, but I seem to have lost my Neal antibodies.

[Curio]

A birthday fit for a queen — Well, any queen who is not Regina. Is there a reality show for spoiled teen royalty who do not get what they want on their birthday? My Enchanted Sweet Sixteen coming soon to a forest near you.

 

Sometimes, I really wish I didn't have my personal you-must-watch-every-second-of-every-episode-so-you-can-properly-discuss-it-online rule. I do not want to see any of that. I don't even know if alcohol and snark will help.

[KingOfHearts]

I'm open to a Regina flashback if it held any purpose or gave necessary exposition. (4x20 for instance) But from what little I know, that doesn't seem to be the case here. 

 

Who Said It:

 

"Sometimes a mother has to do what is best for her child, even if it’s reprehensible.”

Cora.

 

– “It’s seems like such dull work.”

Regina to Cora.

 

– “You won’t find anything unless I want you to.”

Pan.

 

– “If this were a dream there’d be talking doughnuts or something weird like that.”

Charming or Henry.

 

– “When I get my revenge it will be my victory.”

Regina in a flashback.

Edited February 29, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[sharky]

I have to say I do feel like I won't have to fast forward through the Regina flashback in this episode when I do my season rewatch, which is much more than I can say about rewatching most of 4B.

 

The Neal scene was meh for me. I'm not a Swanfire fan and the ret-con was heavy for sure, but I think the scene was fine overall for what it was supposed to be.

 

I'm open to a Regina flashback if it held any purpose or gave necessary exposition. (4x20 for instance)

I think it does in this case -- for better or worse. It's not like the Regina/Mal nonsense we got last year.

 

I do want to add the caveat that now that I'm talking about it, I frankly feel I may be looking at this episode a little more positively than many people on the board will so I'm interested to see what you all think when it airs. It will definitely be a divisive episode.

Edited February 29, 2016 by sharky

[mjgchick]

If I didn't know that we'd be getting an Emma flashback to when she decided to turn a new leaf I might have been worried about the Regina savior stuff but people just sound like they are trolling now when it comes to her. lol

[KingOfHearts]

 

I do want to add the caveat that now that I'm talking about it, I frankly feel I may be looking at this episode a little more positively than many people on the board will so I'm interested to see what you all think when it airs. It will definitely be a divisive episode.

I'll have the same kind of reaction, I think. I've always been a Regina fan (well, an open-minded one. Her writing is very crappy.) so the idea she gets the centric isn't that irksome to me. While the 100th episode should feature all the characters, in A&E's minds it has always been about Regina. I'm not surprised or disappointed.

[sharky]

I'll just say that I thought I would need more glasses of wine to get through it. I think my typical one glass will suffice.

[mjgchick]

I felt that way during 5x02. I ended liking the episode as cheesy as it was and very Regina heavy. I'm sure ill find positives. At least I get Cora and I'm excited to watch Emma refuse to listen to that idiot and not give up on Killian. I almost feel like that's not really Neal but then I remember how he's never believed in Emma.

[Hookian]

Colin shutting down that stupid argument that Dark Hook was not planned is my aesthetic. He's known since Comic Con that Hook is immortal.

[Joanh23]

A possible reason why there isn't much Hook (or Emma) in the 100th episode is coz the 5a finale was Hook/Emma focused - Once has always done it like this - if you have a centric ep, you don't get much screen time in the following ep.....

[mjgchick]

Would people have cared if it was Snowing focused? The show really should've done a "What if?" with those two. What would happened had Snow actually went through in executing Regina? Had Emma grew up with her parents? Would Snow had taught her archery? Would David teach her sword fighting? Would she still had met Hook?

[Rumsy4]

That would show Regina in a bad light. So they won't do it. 

 

ETA: 

 

...in the first couple episodes that the rules of who is there and who isn’t are clearly delineated, so the audience can understand who they’re seeing and not seeing and why. If not, they can find me on Twitter. (X)

 

Typical Adam. lol

Edited February 29, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Serena]

Um. Please someone reassure me that A&E are aware that Mount Olympus is NOT heaven, because some of the wording in one of their answers in the TV Line article made me shake with fear.

[RadioGirl27]

Um. Please someone reassure me that A&E are aware that Mount Olympus is NOT heaven, because some of the wording in one of their answers in the TV Line article made me shake with fear.

Ugh. Even my 12 years-old students know more about Greek Mythology than A&E seem to know.

 

I was in a happy CS bubble after Leanne's article, but this last interview brought me back to reality.

[Rumsy4]

Um. Please someone reassure me that A&E are aware that Mount Olympus is NOT heaven, because some of the wording in one of their answers in the TV Line article made me shake with fear.

 

I think he's just being deliberately simplistic. At any rate, the ONCE-version of the UW so far doesn't seem anything the one from Greek mythology.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

...there is also a series of hidden caves and rivers that are a bit more in line with the mythology of Hades and Zeus.

Zeus confirmed... please?

 

The theme is “Unfinished Business,” because there’s a lot of emotional closure that hasn’t happened between people we’ve seen and lost. It was a great way to celebrate five years of the show and get a chance to see people we haven’t seen in a while that really impacted us.

I find it very ironic that A&E are doing an arc about character payoff, follow-ups, and emotional closure.

 

And we will say this: The impetus to rescue Hook is the tip of the iceberg. Meaning, we’re designing the second half of the season to not be the binary question of “Do they rescue Hook or do they not?” That’s just our entry way to another world and what we hope is a wealth of stories that impact all of our characters.

Well, at least they're being honest that saving Hook is nothing more than segway.

 

 

once there it becomes a journey that forces her to look inward and come to terms with the fact that her role as Savior has not been fulfilled, and is actually just beginning.

Sometimes it's like they really have it out for Emma. She's just down there to save her boyfriend, but then she's forced to save everyone else too. That's just mean.

 

DALLAS | [Leaving baby Neal behind] was not the best parenting choice, and they’re feeling that. They don’t want to make a mistake, like they did the first time with Emma.

Then maybe she shouldn't have left Snowflake behind in the first place?

 

 

The Underworld is kind of a weigh station between two other worlds. Hades has a brother that’s up in Mount Olympus, and then there’s a place “downstairs” that’s even worse. This is kind of a domain where you’re there because you haven’t found closure yet.

So it's simply dressed-up Purgatory. Nothing new here, folks. I'm really not a fan of the fact they're trampling on religion and Greek mythology here. The Underworld doesn't bother me as much as Mount Olympus being heaven does. These writers are not trustworthy.

 

TVLINE | Is Rumple’s restored Dark One status widely known to everybody now?

KITSIS | It is widely known to the group that went down there; it is not known to Belle.

Haha. So much for the blackmail. Are all the Nevengers just going to keep their mouths shut? Is that really what Rumple agrees to?

Edited February 29, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

I find it very ironic that A&E are doing an arc about character payoff, follow-ups, and emotional closure.

 

I'll believe it when I see it. lol 

 

Sometimes it's like they really have it out for Emma. She's just down there to save her boyfriend, but then she's forced to save everyone else too. That's just mean.

 

Yeah--hasn't she done enough saving at this point?? 

[mjgchick]

And this is where Savior Regina is debunked. Jesus get off Emma's nuts Adam and Eddy.

[KAOS Agent]

 

I've always been a Regina fan (well, an open-minded one. Her writing is very crappy.) so the idea she gets the centric isn't that irksome to me. While the 100th episode should feature all the characters, in A&E's minds it has always been about Regina.

 

This is where I have the problem. A Regina-centric is fine for me. In spite of the utter ridiculousness of a bunch of the story (Regina doesn't know how to dance, hand holding fights off death, etc), 5.02 is one of the better 5A episodes for me. I just don't understand why the episode everyone is touting as a celebration of the show is focused so heavily on one character and even weirder, focuses a lot on her relationships with people outside of the main cast. It's baffling to me. Why wouldn't you make the premiere an adventure about them all struggling to reach the Underworld? Give each of the mains a little flashback of their own and fill in with some sort of fight to get where they are going. Give a brief flash of Hook arriving there and burning or whatever. Make the 100th an adventure episode with battles and sword fighting and magic and whatnot. Then you start the next episode with this one where Regina is the focus and all the rules are laid out. 

[mjgchick]

Oh fuck does Emma heal Hooks burns? His face is a mess in a picture I just saw.

Edited March 1, 2016 by mjgchick

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'll believe it when I see it. lol

I don't believe this arc will really have payoff. It's just funny that A&E even had the idea to have an arc about it.

Edited March 1, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[sharky]

Ugh. So much I wanted to say but I'm now editing to cut it out. I think knowing what happens may actually be worse than not.

Edited March 1, 2016 by sharky

[Rumsy4]

I wish I could unsee that picture. I'm so mad at my tumblr people right now. I'm not sure if I can watch this episode now. It's killed the excitement for me. A&E are just plain cruel to Hook and Emma at this point. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

Odd Hades/Zelena picture.

I'm getting Isaac/Cruella vibes from that pic.

 

 

I wish I could unsee that picture. I'm so mad at my tumblr people right now. I'm not sure if I can watch this episode now. It's killed the excitement for me. A&E are just plain cruel to Hook and Emma at this point.

Zombie!Hook looks so devastating. 

[Curio]

Maybe I'm sadistic, but the first thing I thought when I saw the picture of Hook was, "Oh, that's it? That's not so bad." I was honestly expecting much worse.

[Mathius]

WOW.  This is seriously one of the most surreal, frustrating, yet hilarious Adam & Eddy interview ever.

 

1. The interviewer asks for an example of one of the reunions, and Kitsis immediately gives Regina's reunion with Cora as the example.  Because of course Regina is the first character who comes to mind for him.

 

2. "Adam: I’m also very curious what it’s like for Rumplestiltskin if he were to encounter his father again."  No you're not curious, you wrote the goddamn episode and scene where that plays out ,and why are you phrasing it like that when at this point everyone knows that will happen because it was in the freaking promo!?

 

3. "Adam: That’s the fun of designing this half of the season, bringing in characters will all different agendas into this crazy world."  Because after all these years, the criticism about bringing in loads and loads of characters with different agendas has not sunk in.

 

4. Emma's role as Savior is "just beginning".  Guys, the "Savior" mantle was specifically for the Dark Curse, all right?  Emma herself then re-purposed it to mean general protector of the people in Storybrooke.  Now not only did you warp that to mean that she is personally responsible for getting everyone in Storybrooke their happy endings as opposed to just protecting them so that they can pursue it themselves, but now she's responsible for the happy endings of DEAD people, and probably people in every other realm in existence.  Holy crap, leave this poor woman alone already and give her some time for HER happiness!

 

5. "Adam: I kind of love the idea that the Charmings are so smart and so good and want to do so well, they ran headstrong into this, thinking they’ll just be “in and out.” But the Charmings are not privy to our work in the writers room, and we’re spending some time in the Underworld. There certainly are consequences to that sort of headstrong jump, where they left a child behind [in Storybrooke]…. There are some really emotional things they’re going to have to deal with because of that."  OK, is the "so smart" comment sarcasm, because the rest of what you say shows the exact opposite.  And of course the Charmings haven't paid enough consequences for their stupidity, self-righteousness and hubris, let's screw them out of raising another child! (I'm sure that will be what happens.)

 

6. "Eddy: [The heroes] are all a little cocky now. They’re like, “For 100 episodes, we’ve been kicking villains’ asses and always winning.”  ....WHAT!?  I'm pretty sure that for most of those 100 episodes, it's been the villains kicking the heroes' asses and always winning.  You are now literally willfully forgetting what you wrote in order to make the heroes arrogant and thus needing to be brought down a peg.  Again.

 

7. "Adam: But it’s much more complex than that. They have to deal with being a family and what that means and all the responsibilities that come with it."  Y'know, they probably could have dealt with being a family, what it means, and all the responsibilities that come with that if you'd just given them the TIME to!

 

8. "Eddy: We’re going to get a Belle backstory, about her time before Rumple, that will lead right up to [the events of Season 1’s] “Skin Deep.”  Didn't you already do that episode in Season 4?  Y'know, the one with her mother and Anna, that directly lead into "Skin Deep"?

 

9. "Adam: It is our hope that in the premiere and certainly in the first couple episodes that the rules of who is there and who isn’t are clearly delineated, so the audience can understand who they’re seeing and not seeing and why. If not, they can find me on Twitter."  SIGH.  I almost can't blame the idiots on Twitter anymore.

 

10. "Eddy: I would think that it would be very disappointing..."  Yeah, right, I'm done now.

[Shanna Marie]

Sometimes it's like they really have it out for Emma. She's just down there to save her boyfriend, but then she's forced to save everyone else too. That's just mean.

So, the person who's generally been good and sacrificed herself to help others gets rewarded by having to do it again, some more, to the point of being responsible for happy endings in the afterlife.

 

Here's a wild and crazy idea: why not have the person who's been responsible for so much misery be responsible for setting things straight, even in the afterlife? Or at least let the afterlife be opposite world where she has to face everyone she's screwed over and fix things?

[Curio]

Emma will be the Savior for the rest of her life. It's like being a Super Hero—they don't just decide one day to stop helping people. It's Emma's 9-5 job now, even in the Underworld. 

[KAOS Agent]

Emma and Henry sure got screwed by the fates. He's stuck recording everyone's story for the rest of his life and she's stuck fixing everyone else's problems at the expense of her own happiness. Seriously, how does the show end with Emma getting her happy ending if she's still the Saviour? Her life will suck forever. Meanwhile, everyone else gets to go off and blithely do whatever they want because apparently, it's Emma's job to fix it when they screw up even after they've died. 

 

And while we're on the subject, there are an awful lot of villains hanging in the Underworld and not so many good guys, so does that mean Emma is required to save a bunch of really horrible people? And if so, what the hell is the benefit to being a good person in life if you're sent somewhere better in the afterlife no matter how much you sucked as a human?

[Shanna Marie]

Meanwhile, everyone else gets to go off and blithely do whatever they want because apparently, it's Emma's job to fix it when they screw up even after they've died.

That's the part that bothers me. There's a big difference between using your superpowers to save people from the bad guys and being responsible for people's happiness, even if they screwed up their own lives -- and especially if they're unhappy in the afterlife because they screwed up their own lives. Cora spent her life being a raging bitch to everyone. Pan spent his life being a terrible person and utterly selfish. It shouldn't be Emma's responsibility to fix that if they're unhappy in death. It shouldn't even be Emma's job to help Milah, though she might want to because she's Henry's grandmother and she never caused Emma any pain. Given the pain Pan and Cora caused Emma and her family, Emma should feel no obligation to them nor guilt for not helping them.

 

Emma being the savior and having to bring back happy endings was about breaking the curse that was keeping them away from their happy endings by changing them. The fact that she has Savior magic may mean applying that to other threats that come up. It shouldn't mean having to put her own life on hold to guarantee everyone else's happiness all the time.

[Rumsy4]

It's sadistic, almost as though A&E are throwing a bone to the most vicious Hook-haters. 

 

I hate it that Emma is supposedly responsible for the Blind Witch and Cora and Pan getting a Happy Ending. Sheesh!

Edited March 1, 2016 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

It's official now - Captain Swan has gone through more crap than Snowing.

[Mathius]

But remember, Snowing isn't done yet. They have to "pay" for abandoning baby Neal by jumping into the Underworld without thinking.

[Curio]

Why are all the spoiler articles condemning Snow and Charming for leaving Do-Over behind, but not condemning Regina and Robin for leaving Pistachio behind?

[Souris]

Why are all the spoiler articles condemning Snow and Charming for leaving Do-Over behind, but not condemning Regina and Robin for leaving Pistachio behind?

 

And Roland.

 

But we all know Little John is his custodial parent now, anyway.

[Serena]

Why are all the spoiler articles condemning Snow and Charming for leaving Do-Over behind, but not condemning Regina and Robin for leaving Pistachio behind?

Because Pistachio and Roland are surely better off without them!

[mjgchick]

Seriously, at least Snowing are actually trying to be there for their other child for once. What's Regina and her cardboard cut outs excuse? They have a newborn child whose bio mom is threatening to kidnap it also another child who just found out his mom wasn't his mom. Why are they not getting cussed out at?

[RedKeep]

Roland doesn't know/remember that Marian wasn't really Marian. The writers conveniently had his memories of that erased last season. And we know OQ will be punished for leaving their children behind too since the baby ends up in the UW and with Zelena again at some point in later episodes, based on set spoilers. Might merely be something they didn't want to give away or discuss just yet. They got a lot of crap for ignoring Snowing and apparently not knowing what to do with them anymore so they probably at least wanted to pretend they'll have an actual story in 5B.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about the characters, both Snowing and OQ, being punished for bad writing, though. If Kitsis and Horowitz desperately wanted to do an Underworld story, they could have easily just brought the UW to Storybrooke instead of dressing the UW up as an upside-down version of Storybrooke. It just seems so silly to me to let the characters make bad decisions so you can make your overall plot for the half-season work and then act like we should feel they deserve to have bad things happen to them as a result.

[Serena]

I agree, RedKeep. They could have had the group cast a spell (that Rumple gave them, maybe) to open a portal for Emma, but the spell backfires (because, again, Rumple gave it to them) and brought the UW to Storybrooke. Or simply brought everyone to the UW anyway, but in a way that they didn't *mean* to do it. They tried to open it for just Emma and got sucked in.

[RadioGirl27]

Or they could have left Snow and Robin behind with Belle and the babies, and give them a B plot. It's not like they are going to use them that much anyway in the A plot.

[Rumsy4]

Oh lord. Merida in the season finale! And apparently it's not just old footage. Apparently Amy Manson is filming soon. :-P

ETA: Hah! Looks like Colin is getting his wish to see Hook and Cora flirting again.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Rumsy4

[YaddaYadda]

Merida to return in season finale.

 

I wanna start by saying UGH because I really loathe the character.

 

But this also settles it for me. Liam Garrigan and Sinqua Walls are both doing the Vancouver Con this coming weekend, so I wouldn't be surprised if these guys are also back on set as well.

[RadioGirl27]

Merida to return in season finale.

Ugh! I thought the season couldn't get any worse but I guess I was wrong.

 

About that scene with Hook and Cora, I would take that with a grain of salt as I'm not sure Barbara Hersey's twitter is real.

Edited March 1, 2016 by RadioGirl27

[Curio]

I'd rather have Merida and the Camelot Crew return to wrap up their stories than to have completely dropped plot threads. I'm also pleasantly surprised the writers remembered Hook and Cora used to be villain partners.

[Mathius]

Seriously. You people are being unpleasable: you were all complaining about the Camelot characters (Merida included) being dropped at the end of 5A and were even on Amy Manson's side when she expressed bitterness about it on Twitter, but now you're complaining that they'll actually have their stories resolved in the season finale?  Make up your minds!

Edited March 1, 2016 by Mathius

[mjgchick]

Yeah I'd be pissed if they dropped the Camelot stuff. I know people hated Merida but it would annoy me greatly if they just dropped that.

 

I wonder if Emma remembers that Hook knocked Merida somewhere in her house. Also they better take that magic dust out of Guinevere. She really deserves better than to be that turds slave.

[Rumsy4]

I'm totally happy about the possibility that the Camelot characters will be back and the writers are going to wrap up the storyline. I dislike Merida, and don't care if her arc never gets resolved. 

[Curio]

I'm cool with them bringing back Merida if they bring back that Macintosh guy, too. Because I'm shallow like that...

[HoodlumSheep]

I'm all for them wrapping up the Camelot storyline. That's too big of a plotline to leave hanging. I don't like Merida, but if it means the Camelot crew is back too, I won't complain. I want justice for Guinevere and I want to see King Shady again.

I kind of hope that the Hook/Cora scene is true. They're my favorite evil duo (even though Hook's not evil anymore) besides Pan and Felix. They had great chemistry.

[tennisgurl]

I am cool with Merida and the Camelot crew coming back, just to wrap the story up. Then they can all leave and we can all move on to something more interesting.