Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[tennisgurl]

It better be coming! True love and all that! 

 

I`m hoping the Henry thing is just an editing choice. I`m sick of Henry being all about Regina all the time. Granted, we hardly see Henry, but I hope he does not totally ignore Emma in danger. 

 

I really have no idea what is going on.

[mjgchick]

Every time I see Lily's scowl I let out a cackle. I don't know why I find it hilarious but the actress does bitter so well. Theirs a still of her watching Emma hug Hook and she's so extra about it. I hope we see more of that and less of her trying to get Emma to kill her because her life sucked.

 

I hope they edit that scene of Emma coming in a second later because Jesus Henry didn't you find Emma because your other mom was a sack of shit for most of your life?

[Emma]

Sneak peek. I can't watch but it has at least Regina and Lily.

http://www.spoilertv.com/2015/04/once-upon-time-episode-420-mother-sneak.html

[YaddaYadda]

If that's Regina, then bye bye redemption arc.

[Rumsy4]

With Zelena back in the picture, and her happy ending with Robin as elusive as ever, Regina seems to have gotten on-board Rumple's plan to turn the savior dark. Emma and Snowing are IDIOTS for ever trusting people like Rumple and Regina.

[kili]

If that's Regina, then bye bye redemption arc.

 

That has to be Rumple, doesn't it?  Regina seems off. She is usually more direct and snarky. It seems the kind of the deal-y way Rumple does things. The cutting of Lily seems more like Zelena, but Zelena is usually a little more off-her-rocker than that.

 

I'm starting to feel sorry for Lily. She sure does get used a lot. She needs to give up on her plot to kill Snow and Charming though (it was not nice what they did, but killing them won't fix it and it will only turn her darker).

 

LOL at Lily sitting in front of the "Dark Star" pharmacy. Where did they film that?

Edited April 30, 2015 by kili

[YaddaYadda]

Zelena is locked up in that psych ward with that cuff around her wrist, so unless she's actually able to bypass that, that's not her.  I thought it could be Rumple, but his poofing is crimson.  I know we can't stake much on that anyway.  The preview has Regina going to the Author with that page 23 that appeared.

 

Whatever Regina or "Regina" did, it seems that it's what gets the whole dragon!Lily going.

[KingOfHearts]

Didn't Regina just recently make this big deal to stop Emma going dark? I know she's a flip flopper, but this looks strange even for her. Perhaps the Author or Gold is manipulating her.

Edited April 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[HoodlumSheep]

Hmmm, it could be fake Regina, or maybe I was going to suggest she was trying to be a double agent again (which she's terrible at), but that doesn't fit with her slicing Lily's hand. I have no idea anymore. If that's how Regina is acting the entire episode then I'm going to start believing that everyone has suddenly forgotten how to write Regina, because she was off last week and now what seems like this week as well. She's been acting just plain odd.

[YaddaYadda]

Perhaps the Author or Gold is manipulating her.

 

I could see it being Gold.  The press release said he takes a turn for the worst, so let's go make more people miserable.  How does he make ink out of Lily's blood?  Because I cannot say it enough, I hate Gold so very much!

[Rumsy4]

The thing is--if that had been Rumple in disguise, he would have transformed back into his own self before poofing. He is theatrical like that. What would be the point in impersonating Regina anyway? He could very well have spoken with Lily as himself.

 

The "Welcome to Storybrooke" line makes me think it is Regina, not Rumple. She said that to Marian after she saved her from the Snow Monster at the beginning of S4. Dramatic irony right there. 

 

The writers like Regina to flip flop way too much for this to be anyone but her. She needs to retain her motivation to force her Happy Ending through the Author for the AU to happen. She was already on a slippery slope when she used Belle's heart to gain leverage against Rumple. Was that smart? Yeah. Was that heroic? Heck--no! Regina won't learn her "lesson" until Operation Mongoose backfires on her spectacularly. 

[YaddaYadda]

Regina won't learn her "lesson" until Operation Mongoose backfires on her spectacularly.

 

It doesn't look like OM will backfire on Regina though.  It looks like it's going to backfire on Emma and by extension the people she loves.

[kili]

What would be the point in impersonating Regina anyway? He could very well have spoken with Lily as himself.

 

:Lily just spent several hours in a car with Regina and Regina brought her to Storybrooke. Regina is a believable person that she might talk with. If some guy she had never seen in her life before tried sidling up that close to her on the bench, she probably would have punched him.

 

Rumple also likes sowing discent, so why reveal himself? Lily will tell everybody Regina did it and he's in the clear to continue his dastardly ways.

 

IDK. It just seems so unlike Regina, but you are right that she did do the Heart thing and she was off this week too, so who knows?

 

Why is she so desperate about Robin, though. She has him now. She has Robin and Henry and a nice house and a great closet full of clouthes, what on earth more does she need for her happy ending?

[Souris]

It doesn't look like OM will backfire on Regina though.  It looks like it's going to backfire on Emma and by extension the people she loves.

 

If Regina betrays Emma -- and Emma STILL sacrifices herself with the dagger for Regina -- I am going to be PISSED. Jesus wept, stop with Regina doing shitty things and everyone else still screwing over their loved ones on her behalf!

[Shanna Marie]

Now that Regina has Robin more or less back, what does she hope to get out of Operation Mongoose? Is she trying to change the past and make the baby not happen so Robin will have no ties to Zelena? Or go even further back and meet him in the pub and change all of history? If it's just about changing her ending, then I'm not sure what she wants to achieve that doesn't undo the past. Not that this has ever been clear. But at this point, now that we know the Author isn't supposed to make changes and that making changes was a crime, and now that we know Marian's dead so there's no obstacle between Robin and Regina unless either one of them gets weird about Zelena, isn't Operation Mongoose pretty much a bust and a bad idea? And doing anything to further it would be a bad thing.

[YaddaYadda]

:Lily just spent several hours in a car with Regina and Regina brought her to Storybrooke.

 

Lily travels back to Storybrooke with Emma.  Regina is in another car with Zelena and Robin.  So Lily doesn't know Regina.  I wonder if she actually knows that she's the Evil Queen.  She did have a drawing of her on her murder board.

 

 

 

Why is she so desperate about Robin, though. She has him now. She has Robin and Henry and a nice house and a great closet full of clouthes, what on earth more does she need for her happy ending?

 

Zelena is pregnant and she doesn't see that as part of her happy ending?

 

 

 

If Regina betrays Emma -- and Emma STILL sacrifices herself with the dagger for Regina -- I am going to be PISSED. Jesus wept, stop with Regina doing shitty things and everyone else still screwing over their loved ones on her behalf!

 

I'm really not going into the whole Emma is sacrificing herself for Regina.  Whatever Emma is doing, it has to do with the 4 people she loves. I won't pretend like I know WTF is going on because the stuff we saw is confusing as hell, but the dagger thing could be a miscalculation on Emma's part where she thinks that taking on the darkness will offset half the light that she has in her.  Since she has no dark parts in her because that side was taken on by Lily, Emma would be all light.  So if she took on the power of the dagger, she might think that it will give her her missing dark side?  Regina taking on the power of the dagger would potentially make her worst than Rumple.  When Rumple became the Dark One, he was just some poor coward who was by no means a meany or a villain or evil.  He was none of that but he also had no light magic in him, was not born out of true love, had nothing special going for him Like Emma does.  Regina on the other hand, the show made it clear that she has to fight her way out of her darkness and that those instincts are well and alive.  If Regina returned to being the Evil Queen plus had the power of the dagger, what does that mean for Snowing and Emma?  I'm thinking not good things.

 

In 4x12, they had a whole shot of Regina holding that dagger and feeling shaky and overwhelmed after she released the fairies.  I don't believe that was throwaway.

 

See?  Rationalizing until I get smacked in the face.

Edited April 30, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Mathius]

If Regina betrays Emma -- and Emma STILL sacrifices herself with the dagger for Regina -- I am going to be PISSED. Jesus wept, stop with Regina doing shitty things and everyone else still screwing over their loved ones on her behalf!

Also, if it turns out Isaac manipulated her into doing this and the blame is thus passed solely onto him, I will also be pissed, since the Charmings rightfully never got a pass just because he manipulated them, so why the Hell should Regina?

[Serena]

Why is she so desperate about Robin, though. She has him now. She has Robin and Henry and a nice house and a great closet full of clouthes, what on earth more does she need for her happy ending?

She needs her sister not to be pregnant with her True Love's baby, but since they won't write a "Regina wants to force Zelena to have an abortion" storyline, they're writing around it with "I need the author to write me an happy ending!" aka for Zelena to get unpregnant.

 

So, I'm gonna say that whatever Regina does this episode triggers the AU universe for the finale. The cliffhanger will be, similarly to the green smoke for last season, the spell taking effect.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Serena

[Rumsy4]

Zelena is pregnant and she doesn't see that as part of her happy ending?

 

That's my thinking too. Regina doesn't want to deal with the messy complications of Zelena's pregnancy (which I still think she is faking). She says she was happiest when it was just her, Robin, Henry, and Roland. She doesn't want that Happy Family unit to include her sister's child through Robin. 

[KingOfHearts]

I could believe Regina snarking at Lily and taking her blood. That's her style, redeemed or not. What threw me off was her saying that she needed Emma to go dark. She has known Gold's plan since 4x15. Why would she vehemently fight against it then immediately go along with it? If Emma had to go dark so the Author could give her happy ending, she would have already realized that a long time ago.

 

At this point I find it a bit unbelievable that Regina would turn on her BFF just because Zelena is preggers. Not that she doesn't have the track record, but it would be so forced. But then again... this show.

 

 

So I was looking at TVLine's scorecard for May sweeps and it is being filled out.  Zelena's pregnancy or "pregnancy" as I like to call it is the only thing that has made the list for Once thus far.

Lily was under Resurrected or Big Return characters.

Edited April 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

So I was looking at TVLine's scorecard for May sweeps and it is being filled out.  Zelena's pregnancy or "pregnancy" as I like to call it is the only thing that has made the list for Once thus far. 

 

What threw me off was her saying that she needed Emma to go dark.

 

But that's not what she said.  

 

Well you do have some darkness in you, don't you?  Thing is, a lot of that darkness actually belongs to Emma.  And right now, it's good and riled up.  And riled up Savior darkness is exactly what I need.  

 

She's goading Lily into getting angry.  It's not Emma she's harming, it's Lily.  And apparently Lily in Storybrooke where there is magic actually turns into a dragon when she's angry.  Which means that preview that we saw of Lily trying to torch Snowing and Snow getting hurt is a direct consequence of what Regina pulls.

 

I think for Regina, she's cool as long as she's not doing anything to the people she knows, Henry, Snowing, Emma...Lily is fair game to her even if she's her friend's kid.

Edited April 30, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[mjgchick]

Emma deserves better man. That's who I feel sorry for at this point, well Hook as well.

[kili]

She needs her sister not to be pregnant with her True Love's baby, but since they won't write a "Regina wants to force Zelena to have an abortion" storyline, they're writing around it with "I need the author to write me an happy ending!" aka for Zelena to get unpregnant.

 

Regina needs to learn that happy endings don't mean perfect endings. Today, it is an extra step-child you didn't count on. Tomorrow, your son gets a B in math. Next week, your True Love starts going bald. A month from now, your car gets a flat.

 

If the fact that her sister pulled a fast one on her causes her to darken the heart of a woman who has devoted her life to giving her a happy ending (while ignoring her own life), Regina is never going to get redeemed. There will always be one more thing she has to fix and one more person to roll a bus over to get that fix.

[Rumsy4]

If Emma had to go dark so the Author could give her happy ending, she would have already realized that a long time ago.

 

She may have thought there would be an alternate way to do it. Maybe she is angry with Emma for bringing Zelena back to the present. When Regina backslides, she backslides big. Her redemption arc has always been one step forward, two steps backward. I don't think the "good guys" are really unaware of that. In the post-diner scene after "Marian" yells at Regina, they're all afraid if she's going to revert back to full evil queen mode. They just give her a lot of leeway.

 

If the fact that her sister pulled a fast one on her causes her to darken the heart of a woman who has devoted her life to giving her a happy ending (while ignoring her own life), Regina is never going to get redeemed.

 

I know. It's a pretty big reversal if Regina decides to betray Emma now. Maybe she has a different reason for getting Lily's blood from what she told Lily. We'll see...

Edited April 30, 2015 by Rumsy4

[kili]

Maybe she is angry with Emma for bringing Zelena back to the present.

 

She should be sending flowers to Emma for bringing Zelena back to the present. Zelena would have made a mess of the past if she'd been left there.

[Rumsy4]

She should be sending flowers to Emma for bringing Zelena back to the present. Zelena would have made a mess of the past if she'd been left there.

 

Yeah--but Regina gets irrational when she is angry. If she was angry with Emma for saving an innocent woman's life because it "ruined" her Happy Ending, she's going to be even more angry for bringing her evil (sorry--wicked) sister back. 

[mjgchick]

Regina needs to be medicated if she's going to continue to be wishy washy.

[KingOfHearts]

She's goading Lily into getting angry.

I don't know about that... I'm not sure what she'd need with Lily's blood besides whatever has to be done with Emma's darkness. The container looked like an ink jar. What purpose would Lily's anger serve?

 

Maybe she's thinking, "I'll just turn Emma dark to get the Author writing again, then I'll have him make her light again."

Edited April 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

If that's really Regina, I don't think she wants to turn Emma dark, but Emma's darkness that was transfer to Lily. Lily getting mad and turning into a dragon is probably just an accident; another example of Regina acting without thinking about the consequences.

[Rumsy4]

If that's really Regina, I don't think she wants to turn Emma dark, but Emma's darkness that was transfer to Lily. 

 

Good point. Maybe she just wants to tap Emma's Darkness that was transferred to Lily. So apparently there are some darkness cells in Lily's blood with Emma's name on them. Makes no sense to me, but at this point, I'm just going with the flow. 

[kpw801]

So, maybe I'm late figuring this out but it looks like Regina

used Lily's blood to activate the enchanted ink for the author!

[YaddaYadda]

kpw801, you don't need to spoiler tag that in this thread and yes, I think you're right.

 

Also, did Lily compare herself to Moses?  Because just wow!  Is she going to lead the masses out of their AU and back to normalcy or something?

[KingOfHearts]

 

Also, did Lily compare herself to Moses?  Because just wow!  Is she going to lead the masses out of their AU and back to normalcy or something?

And the last episode actually had praying in it and Lily was there. Is there some parallel I'm not seeing?

[kili]

Also, did Lily compare herself to Moses?  Because just wow!  Is she going to lead the masses out of their AU and back to normalcy or something?

 

Maybe she is going to bring the 10 plagues of Egypt. I don't think Regina is going to like getting lice.

 

And the last episode actually had praying in it and Lily was there. Is there some parallel I'm not seeing?

 

And she is named after Adam's first wife, Lilith. She's all very biblical. David will probably kill her with a stone when she is in dragon (Goliath) form.

[Shanna Marie]

Although if anyone is like Moses on this show, it's Emma. She's the one who set everyone free from "slavery" to Regina when she broke the first curse (even though some still act like her slaves because TS;TW).

And, in a sense, you could say her parents placed her in a "basket" to be found when she was an infant. Though with a bit of a reversal, she was a princess raised as a commoner rather than a commoner raised by a princess.

[YaddaYadda]

So I'm clearly slow to the uptake and I just realized that Regina does go to the Author to write her her happy ending.  She does know that for that to happen Emma's heart has to be darkened for any of these asshats to get their happy endings, right?  Though it seems that Ursula, Maleficent and Hook are doing just fine in that department.  Meanwhile those who fucked the most with others' lives are the ones who seem to be getting frozen out of their happy endings or whatever their perception of it is.  No wonder Emma is looking all batshit in that pic that was posted.  

 

And if everyone does end up in the Enchanted Forest again for good (which is the place with all the happy endings, kind of like the Promised Land), it would probably be Emma who takes them there.

 

Except that the Enchanted Forest was destroyed by Regina's curse and we have no clue what the second curse has even done to it.  And the Promised Land is nowhere near being the place of "happy endings" if we're going to make that comparison between what the EF looks like today and what the Promised Land looks like today.

[YaddaYadda]

If anyone is interested in a headache

 

Will there be nuptials for any of our couples soon?

KITSIS: There will be a wedding in the finale. Whether it goes through or not, you’ll have to watch.

 

Will we see more of Regina (Lana Parrilla) and Emma working together?

HOROWITZ: Yes.

 

Will Regina get pregnant someday?

KITSIS: Can’t say.

 

Let's hope someday is nowhere near now.

 

Will anyone die (either temporarily or permanently) in the season 4 finale?

KITSIS: Both. Yeah. Decipher that one!

 

Any chance of seeing a true love’s kiss in the finale?

HOROWITZ: There’s some kissing action coming.

 

Will there be another time jump?

KITSIS: This season, no.
HOROWITZ: Never say never in the future.
KITSIS: I would say next season probably.

 

Will Killian (Colin O’Donoghue) play a role in bringing Emma back from the darkness?

HOROWITZ: Who says she’s being brought back from the darkness?
KITSIS: But he will play a role in her life.

 

And we find out the identity of the Sorcerer and they address who Lily's father is (Sorcerer?) no we don't find out who Rumple's mommy is and we might find out someday who Hook's parents are (which is never)...this show, gray hair.

Edited April 30, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Serena]

Evil Emma and Lieutenant Killian get married. He wears his white uniform, she wears black. I said it and now it shall happen.

[YaddaYadda]

Yeah, who would be getting married in the finale?  Is this one wedding per season type of thing?  Season 1, Snowing twice in their flashbacks, season 3, that awful RB wedding.

 

The last thing I was expecting for the finale was a wedding/would be wedding.

[Mathius]

Did they just flat-out confirm that the explanation for why Will is in Storybrooke they were promising to deliver this season has officially been postponed to next season? UGH!

Also confirmed for next season, more Lily (yay, I like her) and Belle confronting Regina about taking her heart (boo, we all know Regina isn't going to pay one damn consequence for that.)

Edited April 30, 2015 by Mathius

[Serena]

Emma dies, but Snow gets to be flower girl at Regina's wedding so she cheers up.

[KingOfHearts]

Will anyone die (either temporarily or permanently) in the season 4 finale?

KITSIS: Both. Yeah. Decipher that one!

I'm thinking someone's normal self "dies" and is transformed into another person, probably dark. If not Emma, then perhaps Snow or Hook or who else we've speculated.

 

Any chance of seeing a true love’s kiss in the finale?

HOROWITZ: There’s some kissing action coming.

Captain Swan shippers! You finally get your 42 minutes of sucking face! /sarcasm

 

Is there a way to balance out Emma’s (Jennifer Morrison) light and Lily’s (Agnes Bruckner) dark and reverse what happened?

ADAM HOROWITZ: Next season.

This storyline is continuing into next season?! Crap.

 

Does Lily possess magic?

EDWARD KITSIS: Can’t say.

Promo already confirms this.

 

Will Cruella (Victoria Smurfit) and/or Ursula (Merrin Dungey) return in the finale?

KITSIS: Nope.

I dislike how these two characters were marketed and shown as important to this arc, then they end up having little to do with anything. I wish we could have gotten at least an "epilogue" flashback like Frozen maybe showing them together in EF in the finale. Perhaps to explain what they were going to use the gauntlet for... just something to conclude the "Queens of Darkness".

 

Does Belle really love Will (Michael Socha)?

KITSIS: I would say that’s a rebound. Even fairy tale characters have rebounds, people.

Scarlet Beauty's only purpose was for Rumpbelle angst - Confirmed.

 

Will Belle confront Regina for taking her heart?

KITSIS: Next season.

Like they're really going to follow up on that. Why not knock out Henry's memories being stolen or Graham's murder while you're at it?

 

 

 

Will we ever find out how August (Eion Bailey) knew about Neal (Michael Raymond-James)?

HOROWITZ: I sure hope so. I feel like we’ve hinted at it in an indirect way, but we’ll probably get more explicit about it down the line.

Such a random question. Do the writers even still care about this?

Edited April 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

Did they just flat-out confirm that the explanation for why Will is in Storybrooke they were promising to deliver this season has officially been postponed to next season? UGH!

 

I think Frozen derailed everything.  But then again, there's really no excuse for the writers not knowing how to incorporate the characters into their storylines.  At least they won't just kill him off.

 

Emma dies, but Snow gets to be flower girl at Regina's wedding so she cheers up.

Better than dancing on the grave of the grown ass child she's wishy-washy about.

[Mathius]

I'm thinking someone's normal self "dies" and is transformed into another person, probably dark. If not Emma, then perhaps Snow or Hook or who else we've speculated.

No, they said a character dies temporarily AND permanently both at the same time, and given what's going on in the show right now, that can only be one person: Rumple. He as a whole dies temporarily, but his human self dies permanently, with his heart becoming irretrievably black.

[KingOfHearts]

 

No, they said a character dies temporarily AND permanently both at the same time, and given what's going on in the show right now, that can only be one person: Rumple. He as a whole dies temporarily, but his human self dies permanently, with his heart becoming irretrievably black.

Unless the heart's blackness gets transferred to someone else... like Emma.

 

 

 

Will we ever learn anything about Rumple’s (Robert Carlyle) mother?

HOROWITZ: Someday.

Still think it's Mary Poppins.

Edited April 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

If the dagger is left without a tether, does that mean Rumple managed to cut himself loose from it?

[Writing Wrongs]

If the dagger is left without a tether, does that mean Rumple managed to cut himself loose from it?

 

I think you mean cleave. :)

 

I take their "Can't say" as "yes".

 

I'm glad they are so confident about next season. [eye roll]

Edited May 1, 2015 by Writing Wrongs

[YaddaYadda]

I think you mean cleave. :)

 

I refuse to use that word.

 

I take their "Can't say" as "yes".

That means Regina will be pregnant at some point and just...no...no...let me add another no...I'd like to scream no as well...you get the picture.

[buildmeupbuttercup]

So if you hated this Snowing/Emma darkness shit this arc don't worry that epic storytelling will carry over to next season. I was praying we would be rid of Lily (and this bs storyline) after the finale but looks like so such luck.

 

I really need to stop reading A&E interviews.

 

ETA

Because when you've got a story line that equally angers every single fandom faction and the ratings aren't so hot, it seems like a really, really bad idea to continue that story line into yet another season.

Especially since this finale apparently "changes everything". How does everything change if you carry this horrible storyline over?

Edited May 1, 2015 by buildmeupbuttercup

[kili]

You know how when you are biking and you are going up a really steep hill and you keep thinking "I just have to get over this hill and then eveyrhing will get better" and you get to the apex of the hill and you realize that it was not the apex of the hill it was just a bump on the hill hiding the much higher true apex and you just want to fling your bike and yourself on the ground and give up?

 

Is there a way to balance out Emma’s (Jennifer Morrison) light and Lily’s (Agnes Bruckner) dark and reverse what happened?
ADAM HOROWITZ: Next season.

 

I just threw my bike and myself on the ground.