Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[retrograde]

Oh I'm sure neither of them go with Rumple in the end (assuming he even leaves). But I imagine any attempt to activate the hat and leave town won't happen until 4.12, so I assume the fact that Henry is with his family after the spell breaks in 4.11 means he is never even in any danger of leaving. I'm not really sure why Rumple would want to leave once the spell breaks, really (though I assume he will still try to do the hat thing so he can get rid of the dagger.)

[KingOfHearts]

I'm still totally confused on how the hat stuff is supposed to play out. If Belle is talking to Rumple in 4B, and everyone is back together in Storybrooke, and Hook is still alive, how does Rumple get to go to some city through a portal door? Does someone hijack the hat and suck him in it? (Maybe he recruits Ursula and Cruella in the Land Without Magic?)

Edited December 7, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

I'm hoping we won't have to see any apologies because there will be too many of them and it seems most of the stuff people do and say to each other has a comical bent. 

Me, too.  What I'm afraid of is that they're not above making time for that extra special Snow grovel and apology #7234975.  She's still prostrating herself for being bratty as a child.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Mari

[Shanna Marie]

It's as though they were reading this thread!

If only ...

[InsertWordHere]

They really did redo Maleficent's look. I hope it makes sense in story.

 

No idea how they are going to resolve this Rumple plot and I love being clueless. 

[KingOfHearts]

So we're getting Cruella, Ursula and Maleficent next week? Surprised they weren't holding out for 4B.

Edited December 8, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Emma]

I'm way too giddy after that promo. Show please don't disappoint me.

I really need those villains on my screen now. I know we'll get a glimpse of them but having to wait until March is cruel.

[YaddaYadda]

So I realized that the only new thing in the promo was Belle and the puppy and introducing the 3 villains for 4B, I'm assuming they'll be on during the episode at some point.  Honestly, I thought tonight was so jam packed and it seems that next week will be the same as well.

 

So Rumple needs the stars on the hat box to be aligned in the sky as well.  Guess Hook gets to "die" at night then.

[Rumsy4]

Maleficent's makeup makes her look like Jolie's Maleficent. How disappointing, but predictable. The promo looks very interesting, though! 

Edited December 8, 2014 by Rumsy4

[HoodlumSheep]

So Rumple needs the stars on the hat box to be aligned in the sky as well. Guess Hook gets to "die" at night then.

It's like in Hercules! Everything has to be aligned just right! Next week looks awesome. Looking forward to the Evil Trio. Promo didn't show much, so maybe they're trying to keep things a surprise.

[Mari]

Maleficent's makeup makes her look like Jolie's Maleficent. How disappointing, but predictable.

Really?   I missed the promo, so haven't seen her.

 

Crud.  We used to at least count on the costuming department to be creative.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Mari

[Rumsy4]

Really?   I missed the promo, so haven't seen her.

 

Crud.  We used to at least count on the costuming department to be creative.

 

It was a very brief glimpse, but it immediately reminded me of Jolie's look. 

 

So, in the promo, it seemed like only Elsa, Anna, and Kristoff were going back to Arendelle through that fancy door. I wonder how Robin and Marian (presumably) go back then? Was Marian thawed when DQ died? I hope she gets a good scene telling Robin where to shove it once she revives!

[KingOfHearts]

 

Maleficent's makeup makes her look like Jolie's Maleficent. How disappointing, but predictable.

It's disappointing, yes. I thought it would be more colorful or vibrant, similarly to the Maleficent from S1... just with more oomph. I liked how Cruella sounds, though!

 

 

So, in the promo, it seemed like only Elsa, Anna, and Kristoff were going back to Arendelle through that fancy door. I wonder how Robin and Marian (presumably) go back then? Was Marian thawed when DQ died? I hope she gets a good scene telling Robin where to shove it once she revives!

It would be awesome if the door actually stayed as a two-way portal.

Edited December 8, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[HoodlumSheep]

So, in the promo, it seemed like only Elsa, Anna, and Kristoff were going back to Arendelle through that fancy door. I wonder how Robin and Marian (presumably) go back then? Was Marian thawed when DQ died? I hope she gets a good scene telling Robin where to shove it once she revives!

How do they summon the magic door in the first place? I guess Mickey might conjure it maybe as thanks for saving him (if the people from the hat get released)?

Maleficent's face did look like it resembled Angelina's Mal, but I haven't seen that movie so I don't really mind.

[retrograde]

How do they summon the magic door in the first place? I guess Mickey might conjure it maybe as thanks for saving him (if the people from the hat get released)?

There is a bit in the promo where they are at the town line in daylight and Anna seems to try to cross it and is knocked back. Hook is also there. So I guess the Frozens stick around to help deal with the Rumple stuff. Anna knows the most about the hat, after all. So yes, my guess is that they will free everyone from the hat, then the Apprentice will conjur up the door, and the Frozens and Hoods will go through (though not before Robin and Regina make out again, apparently).

 

I guess we will see tomorrow which actors are listed in the press release, anyway.

[Rumsy4]

There is a bit in the promo where they are at the town line in daylight and Anna seems to try to cross it and is knocked back. Hook is also there. So I guess the Frozens stick around to help deal with the Rumple stuff. Anna knows the most about the hat, after all. So yes, my guess is that they will free everyone from the hat, then the Apprentice will conjur up the door, and the Frozens and Hoods will go through (though not before Robin and Regina make out again, apparently).

 

Yes--Anna's knowledge about Rumple and his obsession with the Hat needs to pay off. And I want her to meet Belle and blurt out one of her tactless remarks about marrying the Dark One. I too think the Apprentice conjured-up the door. 

[retrograde]

And I want her to meet Belle and blurt out one of her tactless remarks about marrying the Dark One.

PLEASE yes. 

 

Still pretty perplexed how the "evil trio" fits in to it all. Didn't they have an alternate, Frozen-less ending to 3B that was supposed to set up this storyline? In that case, I wonder if nothing that happens in town brings about the next plot, and it isn't just Maleficent ... returning from wherever she has been? 

[Shanna Marie]

And I want her to meet Belle and blurt out one of her tactless remarks about marrying the Dark One.

Oh, please!

 

And she can also innocently reveal that Blackbeard and Hans have the Jolly Roger, without even realizing that it's Hook's (former) ship (assuming he doesn't already know and didn't knowingly trade her to Blackbeard, but it's more fun if he doesn't know Blackbeard's still alive and traded her to someone else entirely).

 

They have a lot to take care of in one episode -- everyone else to find out about Rumple's plan, stop it, save Hook's heart, check in on Marian, send the Frozen gang and maybe the Hood family back home, resolve the issues with Hook and Emma (if there are issues -- he seems to feel like she won't be able to forgive him, but so far she knows nothing about what he's done. Will she still care when she knows what happened to him?), maybe free the fairies, and then set up the next arc and introduce the trio of terror. So they probably have about fifteen minutes of Regina crying about Robin Hood and saying goodbye to him and about twenty minutes to deal with everything else.

[Curio]

They have a lot to take care of in one episode

That's an understatement. I still have no idea why we got that random 2-hour episode where we mostly spent it on meaningless conversations about how everyone's okay with Regina having sex with a guy who has a frozen wife and Emma spending 30 minutes to decide whether or not to open a freaking door, but this huge finale fallout only gets 40 minutes?? The amount of drama we should be seeing because of Rumple's secrets could probably last for 3 episodes - if not more - if they really wanted it to. But because they also have to deal with saying goodbye to Frozen, dealing with frozen Marian, and introducing three new villains, the fallout will be crammed into 20 minutes. There's honestly no feasible way to present all of that within 40 minutes in a satisfying way. God, this show has so much potential to have awesome drama and then completely squanders it. 

[XtremeOne1]

I'm surprised ABC spoiled the trio of darkness in the promos, especially how they looked.

 

So will 4B be about this trio or about Rumple going full Dark One? I'm kind of bored of evil witches at this point but Kristen Bauer and Merrin Dungey do make up for it. Plus, all three looked great in the short bit we got to see them. I wonder how they'll explain Cruella's involvement considering she isn't a witch. And if we're getting Ursla does this mean Joanna Garcia is coming back?

[Bluerang1]

By pretty much ending the Frozen arc this week they had to show the Queens of Darkness to pique viewers' interests to tune in next week. It does seem like a lot of content for one episode but that'swhat was said about Shattered Sight so it seems like they can pull it off.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Bluerang1

[retrograde]

I'm gonna guess the trio don't show up until the very end, just like last season, and we won't get much explanation until 4.12. That's the only way I can see them fitting everything else in

 

I understand why they want to get viewers tuning in for the finale (and then, ideally, 4B) by revealing new villains, but I'm selfishly disappointed we learned so little else about 4.11 from the promo. Course, there will be a press release tomorrow, photos tomorrow or Tuesday, the first sneak peek Wednesday or Thursday, probably multiple interviews throughout the week, and Adam will likely tweet half the script... I'm just extremely impatient.

[Curio]

I'm gonna guess the trio don't show up until the very end, just like last season, and we won't get much explanation until 4.12. That's the only way I can see them fitting everything else in.

 

I'm actually thinking the trio of villains are only integrated into the Rumple flashbacks next episode. That way, they're not taking away time from more important scenes by just being by themselves as a surprise individual scene at the very end. Part of me also thinks they're going to be featured prominently in the episode, because otherwise, why spoil it in the preview? That tweet about the trio making their epic entrance recently would also make more sense if they're only shown in flashbacks this next episode. 4.11 is only flashbacks of them and then 4.12/4.13 is their Mean Girls entrance into Storybrooke.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Curio

[retrograde]

Good theory, Curio, I think you're probably right. Certainly I doubt the scene with Belle and the Dalmatian puppy takes place in the present, and we know there are supposed to be Belle flashbacks (ugh) this episode. (Also I forgot about this, which definitely backs you up). 

[Doctor John Smith]

I wonder how they'll explain Cruella's involvement considering she isn't a witch.

 

Yeah, she's a tad underpowered to be hanging around a pair of heavyweight supervillains, much less being the apparent leader of the trio.

[retrograde]

Maybe Cruella is their financial backer? 

 

Another thing that I just realised is great about the pics we've seen of Cruella and Ursula so far: neither of them are sporting Evil Cleavage. I have no problem with cleavage, but it's getting to be a bit of a cliche now. Maybe that's why Emma and Hook don't notice them. "Hey do those two look a bit suspicious?" "Nah, they aren't showing an inch of boob. Must be legit." 

Edited December 8, 2014 by retrograde

[Emma]

Am I smoking something or was Lily supposed to be in this episode too?

[retrograde]

One person thought they saw her filming, and the actress tweeted something that suggested she was (I think?), but perhaps the first person was mistaken and/or she was just going in to do ADR or refilm something for the other episode while the young Emma actress was around.

[Emma]

Thanks. I remember reading something about it. Didn't Adam and Eddy say she'd be back in that last lightening round too?

[retrograde]

Thanks. I remember reading something about it. Didn't Adam and Eddy say she'd be back in that last lightening round too?

Oh, you're correct. Hmm. Well, either she was cut, or she's coming back later on in 4B, I guess?

 

And looking back, it doesn't look like she ever said she was filming ouat that day, she just posted this and people assumed, I think.

Edited December 8, 2014 by retrograde

[Emma]

Thanks for the links. Interesting. Any scenes tonight wouldn't have fit I don't think. Nor does 4B make sense either.

[MMR]

 

And if we're getting Ursla does this mean Joanna Garcia is coming back?

Why would Ariel return when her storyline was done, and she has absolutely no connection to this Ursula! The only Ursula Ariel ever met  was Regina. And she had all iconic moments with her, the legs the voice...

[Mari]

"In the Enchanted Forest, things gets classically evil as we face off against an embarrassment of witches."

 

From the TVLine.com link.

 

Does this mean Regina goes back to the Enchanted Forest, too?  Or are they talking about the flashbacks?  My original thought had been "Yay.  More Evil Queen flashbacks.  Just what the show is lacking." 

 

But, we've since learned that people are apparently going back to the Forest.  Is it possible it means Regina is going back, too?  I'm struggling to believe it, but they do like their unexpected twists, and there's been very little sighting of Regina in the outside shots.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Mari

[retrograde]

Regina was in three separate scenes in the Steveston shooting for 4.12 (seeing Henry off to school, magic with Emma, driving with Emma), so unless that was all part of a dream sequence, she would have to be back by then.

 

I'm fairly certain "embarrassment of witches" refers to Cruella, Ursula, and Maleficient, and is part of an Enchanted Forest flashback, though.

[Bluerang1]

I know I've heard of "three witches" before so I looked it up and it's from Macbeth. Perhaps these three are meant to mirror them and the king that they're currently casting is Macbeth. Once delving into Shakespeare territory.

[KingOfHearts]

In the promo it looks like Mr. Gold is talking to Regina in his car. That's fairly interesting since he rarely talks to her any more, especially privately. Have we had any filming spoilers about this?

Ugh, it looks like Cruella is from EF. I was really hoping for a Land Without Magic villain.

Edited December 8, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

I think there was an interview where Lana mentioned it.

[retrograde]

I was wondering who he was speaking to in the car, because it doesn't look like Belle. Rookie villain mistake telling everyone your evil plan, Rumple.

[Souris]

Oh, God, and then Regina will be the one to Tell All to Emma, thereby saving the day yet again and proving what a wonderful and changed person she is, to restore Emma's love to her when that awful Emma took hers away by bringing back Marian! ::head desk::

[Mathius]

The embarrassment of witches is Maleficent, Cruella and Ursula. They are clearly in the EF in the promo, as part of the flashback with sparkly imp Rumple and Belle.

[Curio]

I'm trying to figure out why Rumple would be in the passenger side talking to Regina. The conversation has to be either about Operation Mongoose or Henry. Or both. Maybe Regina confronts him about how he managed to get his "happy ending" (which would be pretty ironic since I'm 99% sure we'll see Rumple's house of cards come crashing down by episode end).

[YaddaYadda]

I don't think Rumple tells Regina anything about his plans.  He might tell her he is leaving town and they might have a conversation about living without powers.  I mean Regina has sort of been trying to do that.  Then you have the happy endings.  I mean considering the ear full Regina got from Emma regarding she and Hook being happy, that's one villain (not to the Rumple and Regina levels of villainy) who is actually getting his happy ending though Rumple is planning on ending him.

[BoPeeps]

They use the morning after deleted scenes to further tell their story because they jam too much into one episode. It is a brilliant marketing tool to show and tell viewers what they couldn't BECAUSE THEY TELL TOO MUCH STORY in one episode. Tumblr and Twitter are definitely the editors' friends.

 

My guess is that the new trio of doom will appear in the very end when Rumple (who is seen with them in spoiler pics) has his hat plan foiled, has to stay in Storybrooke and turns his wrath on everyone because they DID get in his way. He and Belle have such an unhealthy relationship it is hard to hope for much regarding them about anything. The *bad things* Carlyle suggested would come down on Rumple in 9 and 10, frankly, didn;t.

 

I also imagine that there will be frantic finalizing, introducing, angst continuing massive chaos that will leave us all shaking our heads and saying WTF??? for three months until they can pick it back up again with more chaos.

 

My advise, which means absolutely nothing to them (Heh) is BREATHE a little please. And as many have suggested, focus attention on our beloved stable characters for a while. The ten second flashes and three line *cameos* are wearing a tad thin. Even the characters I don't particularly like (ring that Belle) are being shortchanged far too much. Don't forget what got you all here, writers. You have the wonderful one liners, creatively brilliant portrayals and depth of audience character knowledge to keep us all entertained while all the other storyline take front and center, but in fairness to us, throw us more than a bone..

 

Regarding Maleficent (my hands down fave villain of all time)~Jolie was created to look like the Disney cartoon.so any return to the black robes and horns is an homage to her delicious animated magnificence, not Jolie. I welcome the look and I hope she is wickedly pissed this time around..Regina will have many reasons to watch her back.I couldn't embrace the way they portrayed her in the previous seasons with the cutesy unicorn. I know they fashioned part of Regina after the same cartoon wickedness of Maleficent and had to go a different direction, but...a unicorn? Maleficent?  Nah.

[HoodlumSheep]

The more I see of the glimpse of Maleficent's costume, the more I see of the original cartoon version. I like it.

And yeah, the "blow up in his face" part didn't really happen in eps 9 and 10 for Rumple. It was more like his actions in them guaranteed his downfall (of whatever kind) in 4x11.

Where the heck do the Belle flashbacks fit into her time line? She's wearing her traveling cloak, so I assume it's a flashback?

[Souris]

4x11 press release.

 

"Guest stars include" -- they're holding some back, I think.

[HoodlumSheep]

I think they're holding back too. No mention of Mickey the Apprentice, and we know someone summons the super duper magical door.

[InsertWordHere]

And, in the Enchanted Forest flashback, an intrusion during Belle’s stay at Rumplestiltskin’s dark castle will wreak havoc in both the past and the future,

 

Pongo? Belle's scene with the Dalmatian puppy was in EF clothing IIRC.

[retrograde]

We also know Blue returns by 4.12, and it seems unlikely that happens in 4.12, so yeah, I'm going to agree/hope that there are more guest stars.

 

Hook’s fate hangs in the balance as Gold’s quest for power threatens everything he holds dear.

Hmm. Everything Hook holds dear or Gold holds dear? If it's the former, this either means:

 

1) For whatever reason, Rumple decides he is going to kill Emma after all

2) By "everything he holds dear" they're referring to his life

3) This is a poorly written press release that doesn't really reflect what is in the episode

Edited December 8, 2014 by retrograde

[Shanna Marie]

And, in the Enchanted Forest flashback, an intrusion during Belle’s stay at Rumplestiltskin’s dark castle will wreak havoc in both the past and the future

I wonder if somehow that's how Cruella can be the Cruella we know and love to hate while being from the Enchanted Forest -- if she shows up at Rumple's castle and Rumple somehow banishes her to the world without magic without her powers. So all this time, she's been living as a semi-ordinary but non-magical person in our world, lusting after fur coats and torturing puppies, but now she knows about Storybrooke and comes to town, hoping to be in a place where she gets her powers back and get revenge on Rumple.

 

Of course, that adds yet another person who found their way to our world while Rumple was spinning his wheels, but his issue was that he wanted to get here with his powers.

[Curio]

Pongo? Belle's scene with the Dalmatian puppy was in EF clothing IIRC.

 

It would be kind of neat if Cruella was actually a shapeshifter and a Dalmation is just her preferred animal disguise. Otherwise, I'm trying to figure out why a normally magic-less person is hanging out with Ursula and Maleficent in the Enchanted Forest.