Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[YaddaYadda]

Did Hook or Zelena knock Emma out? Or did Hook move her to the couch when she was stuck with the squid ink?

I think Zelena took the dreamcatchers and put them in the clocktower, not Hook. That's where the unsuspected evil from the synopsis will come into play.

 

He or Zelena probably put the cuff on her while she was immobilized. There's nothing she can do if she doesn't have magic. Maybe she moves herself to the couch. 

 

Emma looks like someone who has no fight left in her.

 

A Kenneth Mitchell as Peter is listed for Broken Heart on the imdb cast list page. Don't know if it's true or not, but at least it keeps you entertained.

 

Argyle, one of Tiny's brothers is listed for 5x11, which, head scratcher.

Edited November 27, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Rumsy4]

STFU Regina and Mary Margaret. Especially MM--you didn't even take any initiative to contact your daughter.

Looks like Hook put the anti-magic cuff on Emma while she was still Squid Inked.

[mjgchick]

Now I think the writers are purposely ruining Emma's relationship with Snow.

[YaddaYadda]

Now I think the writers are purposely ruining Emma's relationship with Snow.

I'm okay if they never speak again.

 

3B, Emma doesn't exist. Oh wait, we need Emma, lets cast the curse to get her so that she can save her sibling. Let's crush David's heart. No, wait, I can't live without him, here Regina, split my heart, I don't care what happens to me, and if the baby I was trying to save 30 seconds ago dies too.

 

I wonder if the writers see what they've done here. 

[Mitch]

Yeah, Snow and Regina are hypocrites. What Emma did was not the brightest thing in the world, but Snow split her heart in 2 so that David could live, and Regina all but forced Emma to save Robin's life.

 

So here's a stadium, please take several seats.

 

Thanks!

 

Now I know Emma and Hook can do no wrong but both Snow and Regina are right in this instance...not that they have both not been dumb and reckless... I like how Emma says she tried to cut herself off to contain the darkness but no one was there to give her hope (Snow) or tell her she was being stupid (Regina.) .....but they are concerned with the big problem is that there is now two dark ones..yes, yes, we know Emma and Hook's twu wuv is above all others but yea, there are now two dark ones poofing around town and a psychotic witch hanging with newbie dark one...so its kind of time to deal with that problem then hand holding and cooing over the romantic aspects of it...plus I like it when Regina gets to act more like the Mayor Mills of old.

[mjgchick]

Nah Regina was just being a butt to Emma as usual. No thanks

[PixiePaws1]

When Emma said she isolated herself and there was no-one to give her hope...made me want to cry. ....

then Regina opens her mouth and I got over that feeling immediately and into want to beat something with a rock!

Poor poor Emma. She looks lost and broken and I need this fixed! !!

so that ep still is Emma taking the dreamcatchers out of the clock tower after they've served their purpose. ..? Perhaps Killian's big plan to hurt Emma was to hide the dream catchers and lay her on the couch with the anti magic cuff....not exactly the height of evil yet

.....maybe they are in the clock tower so they can force all of the memories on to all of SB. 'Look SB...Dave picks his nose when no-one is watching!' Sort of Funniest Home Dream catchers- Camelot style. But who put them there, Killian or Zelena or joint effort?

Or is there a darker purpose to it..some sort of nightmare inducing spell that makes nightmares real. ..?

Edited November 27, 2015 by PixiePaws1

[RadioGirl27]

Once Upon a Time star Colin O'Donoghue breaks down Hook's dark turn

It seems that Hook is going to be really, really dark. I'm not surprised, A&E can care less about what they do to their characters if it fits their "amazing twists", but he is my favourite character, so I hate to see how they are destroying him.

Edited November 27, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[HoodlumSheep]

And now it's confirmed that Regina is being shoehorned into the Papa Jones story. All my dreams have come true.

*flips table, punches wall*

And now it sounds like it's Regina's fault that Captain Hook went really dark, and not Milah's murder/his hand getting lobbed off.

I bet she screwed over his father somehow.

Typical. At least she can't muck up the bby!Jones flashbacks.

Poor Hook. You can totally get the reasoning behind him just letting go and embracing the darkness if you examine his whole psyche. Once the Darkness was in him he probably just figured it was only a matter of time before it consumed him, and didn't bother putting up much of a fight.

Edited November 27, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[PixiePaws1]

It seems that Hook is going to be really, really dark. I'm not surprised, A&E can care less about what they do to their characters if it fits their "amazing twists".

it sounds awful and vomit inducing to throw all his hard work to turn his life around into a big puddle of shit like it meant nothing at all....but it clearly only lasts a very short time before we hear that lovely Sacrifice music pretty soon after. I always thought he would be able to pull himself from the Darkness and do something noble and sacrifice himself because why would anyone go to the UW to get him back. Now i think Emma has to put him down like a rabid animal and when she speaks to him via shade ale he thanks her for loving him enough to kill him..I think he ends up in Tartarus and him being his thankful loving self when she talks to him as a ghost or whatever that beer does is why they agree to go get him.

I will be in my corner plotting horrible revenge on the writers for stripping all his hard fought for redemption off like it was a ruined jumper...

Edited November 27, 2015 by PixiePaws1

[mjgchick]

So the are retconning Hook seeking revenge for 200 yrs so we can have more flashback Evil Queen Regina? This is so stupid. These writers don't know how to write for their favorite character.

If Hook is his loving self wouldn't Emma just let him die? I'd assume they go after him because something strange is going on not because Emma can't live without him. He's full on dead now.

Edited November 27, 2015 by mjgchick

[YaddaYadda]

I'm confused. Does Regina know who Hook's father is, and she seeks him out, or she just realizes who he is. But if she knew Hook was in Neverland, and the whole story with Rumple, Milah, then I'm assuming she did her research.

 

I'm guessing the EF kept some pretty elaborate records in the hollow tree, somewhere in the forest. 

[Mathius]

I still think Dark Hook lasts just this one episode and he comes to his sense at the end by not killing Gold, but it's going to be too late because he's already done whatever is needed (likely with Gold's blood, explaining why the Darkness wanted him to go get revenge) to unleash Nimue and the other Dark Ones, and his sacrifice will be undoing this mistake.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Mathius

[mjgchick]

I knew them going to the Underworld had more to do with Regina than Hook. Hook was just the excuse. Just like Henry was the excuse for Neverland. I guess Emma for Camelot even though it turns out it ain't even Camelot at all.

Yep, Hooks just a plot device for the Underworld stuff. His darkest deed will probably be killing Merlin.

Edited November 27, 2015 by mjgchick

[HoodlumSheep]

The regina retconning doesn't even make a wink of sense. Milah died 200 yrs ago. That's when he turned into Captain Hook. But apparently he still wasn't even the super evil, full-blown revenge-seeking pirate then either, because Regina screws him him over 200 yrs laterish and that's the reasoning why he went super dark/evil (or as evil as we've been shown)????

How does that even make sense?

This is why I didn't want Regina involved with the Hook backstory.

Edited November 27, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[mjgchick]

Hook didn't even seem that evil when Emma and them met him, so in the words of Oprah; "Which is the truth?"

[Mathius]

Also, didn't Hook first meet Regina immediately after he punched Belle unconscious and was about to kill her?

 

Seems pretty dark and evil to me.

[mjgchick]

And he's killed those men and took their rings long before he met Regina. Every time they retcon something on this show do they not see how stupid it makes them look?

[Serena]

Wait wait wait, where is this "Regina screwed Hook over and that's why he went dark" thing coming from?

[HoodlumSheep]

I might be out after this. There's only so much retconning that I can take. And the fact that Regina is probably going to be involved with ruining a part of hook's life too? No thanks.

[YaddaYadda]

Wait wait wait, where is this "Regina screwed Hook over and that's why he went dark" thing coming from?

It's not coming from anywhere. 

 

And the fact that Regina is probably going to be involved with ruining a part of hook's life too? No thanks.

 

How did she ruin his life. He was already a filled with vengeance pirate who was willing to kill an innocent woman because he didn't get the answer he wanted. So Regina hasn't done anything to him, he was already like that.

 

Now if she time traveled 200 years back in the timeline, forced his father to leave him on a ship in the middle of the ocean, it's one thing, but her ruining his life before the curse was cast? His life was already ruined, and in shambles because of what he chose to focus on.

 

I'm not Regina's biggest fan, but it's one thing if she did something while they were in Camelot. And I don't even think she did anything other than voice her objection at tethering Hook's life to the sword.

Edited November 27, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[orza]

Wait wait wait, where is this "Regina screwed Hook over and that's why he went dark" thing coming from?

People are just making it up because the interview didn't say that at all. It

[RadioGirl27]

Wait wait wait, where is this "Regina screwed Hook over and that's why he went dark" thing coming from?

This is what Colin says in that interview:

 

 

We’re going to be seeing some backstory for Hook with his father. What can you say about that episode?

I was excited to get to explore that, because we talked about Hook’s father and he was cagey about it, so we get to see what happened in that backstory. It is linked with Regina, which is about all I can really say about it. It’s a fascinating insight into who Hook was back when he was Captain Hook, but not Killian Jones, if you know what I mean. Season 2 Hook! Let’s just call him that. You get to see a real insight into how he became that ruthless pirate and the person who just really didn’t care about anything except his revenge.

[HoodlumSheep]

There's a 95% chance that if Regina's involved, then whatever it is that happens is most likely her fault.

It'll be a miracle if she's not.

[orza]

Colin is not saying that Regina caused Hook to go dark. "Linked" could mean anything. It could mean Regina just discovered his back story somehow and tries to leverage that knowledge or any number of other things.

[mjgchick]

I'm not saying Regina ruined Hooks life. His life was pretty much ruined when his dad left him but if they make Regina be the reason why he went dark (and not the combo of losing Liam and Milah) which is what Colin alluded to then what a dumb retcon.

Edited November 27, 2015 by mjgchick

[YaddaYadda]

About hypocrites and recompense that Ginny mentioned back before the season started, I'm guessing the recompense (which I took to mean the same as in French, which confused the hell out of me), is them backing Emma up when she decides that she wants to go to the Underworld.

 

I mean I can see why Rumple would also go. Hook in the second sneak peek pretty much spells it out, with the whole "for filling Emma with darkness" line.

[mjgchick]

And now it also makes sense why Regina does as well.

[RadioGirl27]

More on Hook and Regina (from EW)

 

 

Do you have any scoop on the Regina and Hook adventure we were promised on Once Upon a Time? — Peggy
It’s coming sooner than you think … like this week! “She puts him up to a test,” says Lana Parrilla, who teases that there’s a surprising connection between them and events that took place ahead of season 2 that we were previously unaware of. Make of that what you will!

So, yeah, they are totally retconning their meeting. What I don't know is who they want to make look bad, Hook or Regina, with this.

[HoodlumSheep]

Why does she need to put him up to a test?

????? I just don't understand. Ahead of season 2? Like, before they even officially met?

So what's she's going to do? Secretly set up a test of some sorts (which may or may not include something about his father?), watches him succeed through her magic mirror or something, and then decides he's the one she wants to kill Cora?

The "ahead of season 2" part confuses me.

Or does this "test" take place after the Wonderland/Cora stint?

Edited November 27, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Mari]

More on Hook and Regina (from EW)

 

So, yeah, they are totally retconning their meeting. What I don't know is who they want to make look bad, Hook or Regina, with this.

Most likely Hook, although it would shock me if the end result isn't unintentionally both. Parilla and the writing team don't always seem to see the damage done whenever we see Regina go full angry eyes or kill yet another innocent villager.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Or does this "test" take place after the Wonderland/Cora stint?

Whatever happens needs to happen after 2x09. It's made clear that Hook and Regina meet for the first time in Belle's cell.

[YaddaYadda]

Why does she need to put him up to a test?

????? I just don't understand. Ahead of season 2? Like, before they even officially met?

 

This is incredibly stupid.

 

I'm guessing they can say that Regina took his memories of whatever happened before the first time they met. Then it would explain why she knew who he was, what he had done, and what he was after.

 

Maybe the flashbacks are running parallel. Regina's flashback with Hook, and Hook's flashbacks to his father, and little cutesy him.

Edited November 27, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[sharky]

Lana doesn't say the test takes place pre-season 2. I could totally see Regina trying to test him in present day Storybrooke to see how willing he is to go dark -- maybe make him try and hurt Henry or something to see how dangerous he really is now that he's the Dark One. And as for pre-season 2, it did seem in their first meeting that she knew a bit about him already, which makes me wonder how she learned about him. It also makes me wonder if perhaps the connection is actually through Hook's father somehow. I could totally see a Bad People club with Daddy Jones, Cora and Regina.

 

And if it is pre-season 2, we still haven't figured out how Hook knew where Belle was or how to get to her. Could Regina somehow have planted the information to get him there, testing to see how dedicated he was to getting Rumple? Actually, this would make sense considering the purple dress spoilers we've seen so far.

Edited November 27, 2015 by sharky

[HoodlumSheep]

Yeah, but I don't see why she'd need to put him up to a test after he's killed Cora? To prove what, exactly? That Cora's dead? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

*why word something as "ahead of season 2"??

Edited November 27, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Hookian]

This is clearly setting up Hook making the ultimate sacrifice in the present day as a hero saving everyone. In the past it's all his path to villainy and in the present it's on his way to a hero.

[InsertWordHere]

Not gonna lie, I have always wanted to know how Hook knew Belle was in Regina's castle and that she was once Rumple's maid. Regina didn't exactly seem surprised to see him, but I don't know if she would have set it all up. Hook was the cunning one at that time, not Regina. She had all the subtlety of a sledgehammer. 

He or Zelena probably put the cuff on her while she was immobilized. There's nothing she can do if she doesn't have magic. Maybe she moves herself to the couch. 

Thanks. Watching on mobile, I thought I saw the cuff but then I thought it was the sleeve of her jacket. That makes much more sense.

[KingOfHearts]

Here's the actual transcript from when Regina met Hook in 2x09:

 

Hook: So pretty… yet, so useless.

Regina: No, not useless. She’s a valuable chess piece.

Hook: Do I look like I’m playing a game of chess? My hook, if you please.

Regina: No.

Hook: The asking was me being a gentleman.

Regina: Is that any way to address a queen? Even a pirate should have better manners than that. Yes, I know who you are, Captain. I know why you came here from Neverland, and I know all about the crocodile you wish to skin.

Hook: Then you also know, that I’ll stop at nothing.

Regina: So dedicated and resourceful. No one has been able to fight their way past my defenses before. She can’t help you kill Rumpelstiltskin, Hook. But I can, if you do something for me. Care to join me for a drink?

 

Does this seem like they've met before to anyone? Why would Regina have to spell out that she knows him if they had?

Edited November 27, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[InsertWordHere]

It's clear Hook doesn't know Regina, but it's not clear that Regina doesn't know Hook. She could have either cast a memory spell or appeared to him in disguise, which she has done with both Snow and Jefferson. 

[sharky]

But she does know alot about him by the time he showed up -- it was almost as if she set him up to get him there so she could then use him for her own plan. She surely couldn't walk into Wonderland and get her mother herself, but she tested Hook to see if he could get into her place so she would know he could get into a place like Wonderland as well. Just because she put him to a test doesn't necessarily mean he knew he was being put to a test.

[YaddaYadda]

Here's the actual transcript from when Regina met Hook in 2x09:

 

Hook: So pretty… yet, so useless.

Regina: No, not useless. She’s a valuable chess piece.

Hook: Do I look like I’m playing a game of chess? My hook, if you please.

Regina: No.

Hook: The asking was me being a gentleman.

Regina: Is that any way to address a queen? Even a pirate should have better manners than that. Yes, I know who you are, Captain. I know why you came here from Neverland, and I know all about the crocodile you wish to skin.

Hook: Then you also know, that I’ll stop at nothing.

Regina: So dedicated and resourceful. No one has been able to fight their way past my defenses before. She can’t help you kill Rumpelstiltskin, Hook. But I can, if you do something for me. Care to join me for a drink?

 

Does this seem like they've met before to anyone? Why would Regina have to spell out that she knows him if they had?

 

they can easily say that she messed with his memories after, because she didn't want him to remember whatever they found or whatever. 

[Hookian]

they can easily say that she messed with his memories after, because she didn't want him to remember whatever they found or whatever. 

 

Yeah I was just about to say that. I've got a feeling this episode is to make Regina team Hook or at the very least agree to assist Emma in getting him back from the Underworld.

[sharky]

But you don't even have to mess with his memories. It's totally possible that they hadn't met before she walked into Belle's cell where he was standing. She could've gotten that information from anyone. She tells someone she's looking for a person who can help you complete a plot for revenge. And hey, you know who this person would recommend? This pirate who has been looking for revenge.

 

The big issue with the EW spoiler is that they probably took two different thoughts and shoved them together in one paragraph due to limited space for the spoilers column. I mean, I know it's TSTW, but there are ways to make this work without stealing memories or retconning the hell out of the storyline to make it work.

[YaddaYadda]

so, Rachel Shelley, the actress who played Milah retweeted Adam's title spoiler for 5x14.

 

Milah might be back for this episode.

 

The big issue with the EW spoiler is that they probably took two different thoughts and shoved them together in one paragraph due to limited space for the spoilers column.

 

I think it's the pre-season 2 that's been thrown in there that's opened this up to speculation though. She knew him, knew things about him.

Edited November 27, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[KingOfHearts]

 

they can easily say that she messed with his memories after, because she didn't want him to remember whatever they found or whatever.

With that argument, you could retcon anything though. "Oh, well, they had their memories taken away, so they didn't remember." I don't think Regina had the power to erase memories until the curse came, iirc. We never saw her do it to anyone else. I know doing it is A&E's ultimate tool to cop-out on organic storytelling, don't get me wrong. But anyone way you look at it, you know that 2x09 was originally intended to be Regina and Hook's first meeting. It's a retcon through and through if they met prior.

 

Speaking of which, I'd like to know how Cora knew so much about the curse. How did she know it would take away Hook's memories?

 

 

It's totally possible that they hadn't met before she walked into Belle's cell where he was standing. She could've gotten that information from anyone.

This. It's not like Hook's vengeance was a best kept secret.

Edited November 27, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

With that argument, you could retcon anything though. "Oh, well, they had their memories taken away, so they didn't remember." I don't think Regina had the power to erase memories until the curse came, iirc. We never saw her do it to anyone else. I know doing it is A&E's ultimate tool to cop-out on organic storytelling, don't get me wrong. But anyone way you look at it, you know that 2x09 was originally intended to be Regina and Hook's first meeting. It's a retcon through and through if they met prior.

I agree, but they've already mucked this up by saying their "adventure" happened prior to their original meeting in 2x09. The writers have to justify how things went down in 2x09, like it was the 1st time Hook laid eyes on Regina. I know, it's TW, so I'll be shocked if they gave this a second thought.

 

I've always wondered if Regina wasn't the one who had the information about Belle planted by one of her people, in one of the drinking holes Hook hung out.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I've always wondered if Regina wasn't the one who had the information about Belle planted by one of her people, in one of the drinking holes Hook hung out.

That's more than likely since not even Rumple knew Regina was holding Belle captive. (Which really makes no sense since Rumple had a crystal ball and seer abilities.)

Edited November 27, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[FierceAfroChick]

I wish they would give Robin Hood a fucking personality so they wouldn't have to use Hook to prop Woegina. I was enjoyong Dark Hook, but sorry, boo. When ur in scenes with her, you get fast forwarded too.

[HoodlumSheep]

But she does know alot about him by the time he showed up -- it was almost as if she set him up to get him there so she could then use him for her own plan. She surely couldn't walk into Wonderland and get her mother herself, but she tested Hook to see if he could get into her place so she would know he could get into a place like Wonderland as well. Just because she put him to a test doesn't necessarily mean he knew he was being put to a test.

I feel like this would be the lesser of the two evils. I wouldn't want a memory wipe involved. That would be dumb. The original script doesn't sound like Regina was directly involved with testing Hook, more like she set stuff up or sent lackeys to do the job or something and just did her research.

I wouldn't be surprised if they retconned it though.

Edited November 27, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[PixiePaws1]

this ep title 'Broken Heart "...has me wondering if there is still some serious whackadoodle twist coming that turns everything on its head. I just don't think we've seen the last of the major double-blinds yet....and when we do it will blow everything out of the water.

For example. .

that ep still of Emma in the clock tower looks like she is putting them and we thought she might be giving back memories but she is taking them down.

They show us what they want to in those ep stills and the pieces of scenes in sneak peeks and it is often a way different context to what plays out as a whole.

Does 'Broken Heart' refer to Emma and Killian in the past? Is it meant to conjure up memories of Snowing and 'half a heart' so we think Emma and Killian are now half-hearted?

I don't think it is only a coincidence that ep 4 was called 'Broken Kingdom'...is there any chance that pesky illusion sand comes into as it was the big twist in ep4.

I feel like there's a huge fake-out going on.....like we are being led down the road thinking he really is responsible for the big evil of DOs turning up and marking people but it's someone else's plan entirely.