S06.E05: Live Free or Twihard

[Guest]

After a group of young girls go missing Sam and Dean realize that a group of vampires have taken up residence in the small town. After a fight with two of the blood-suckers, Dean is bitten and turns into a vampire.

Samuel  tells Dean he can change him back but he’d have to get the blood of the vampire who turned him. Dean infiltrates the nest and runs into the Alpha...

 

 

[DittyDotDot]

Not particularly fond of this episode. It's mostly due to me being rather tired of the trope of "let's give a main character an incurable disease and then low and behold there is a ::gasp:: cure." Plus, there's also the Grampy Campbell factor that I don't think I need to expound on. And, I'm not too keen on this whole Alpha thing going on either. I've long ago come up with an explanation for all this Alpha nonsense, I just prefer the show when the monsters are random and unorganized. It leaves room for the small victories and keeps the show feeling more cozy and quaint to me. At least it was kinda fun watching Dean take out an entire nest of vampires, so whatever.

 

The best part of this episode for me is remembering an interview with Sera Gamble where she said Kripke didn't understand what the opening sequence--with the Apple Iphone dropping--was all about. It warmed the dark recesses of my cynical heart to know there were other's out there who avoided this teenage vampire kissing craze, too. I know, I probably shouldn't be so quick to judge because I really don't know much about it--but, seriously, they mocked Twilight! Hee!

Edited November 18, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[AwesomO4000]

I just can't get over the idiocy of having Dean actually going into Lisa's house. I understand he wanted to see her, but it was just too idiotic that he actually went inside. Knock on the door, tell her to only open it a crack, have her open the window, just any damn thing except actually going inside and putting them in danger because you need to see them. I thought Dean learned his lesson after the deal, so that he wouldn't do something potentially selfish like that and dangerous. Just no. Can't get passed it,* and it takes away my enjoyment of the episode.

 

Not only that, it's sort of in the air now that Dean's going to partially blame this on Sam... who was soulless at the time, so again just no. Hated them having Dean go see Lisa and actually put them in danger by going inside as I don't think he would have. It seemed out of character to me.

 

* The only way I can is to imagine that Dean had some subconscious compulsion he couldn't control to "turn" family and so that's why he just had to go inside and see Lisa and Ben.

[catrox14]

I always thought Dean going into her/his house because that still was his home mostly. They hadn't yet broken up. I think the compulsion was also driven by the vampirism.

Fuck you, Soulless Sam. I swear I don't even care that he was soulless. No matter what other shifty things he did as soulless Sam, this was and remains the most vile action. I just hate him for this.

And I really do kind of resent the show for never adequately addressing the damage this did to Dean and his life. I never understood Dean being taken to task for endangering Lisa as a vampire. Lisa wouldn't be in danger if Sam hadn't allowed Dean to be turned for an experiment. Worse yet, Dean ultimately forgave Sam because he was soulless, but Dean is blamed for not trusting Sam when he knew Sam let him be turned.

Edited November 22, 2014 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

Lisa wouldn't be in danger if Sam hadn't allowed Dean to be turned for an experiment. Worse yet, Dean ultimately forgave Sam because he was soulless, but Dean is blamed for not trusting Sam when he knew Sam let him be turned.

 

I might be looking at this too harshly, but Lisa wouldn't have been in danger either if Dean hadn't gone to the house, gone inside, and put himself in that position of temptation. Yes, soulless Sam had some responsibility, but Dean made the final decision. For me it's like saying Sam might not have gotten into so much trouble with Ruby if Dean hadn't made the deal. True, but Sam made the final decision. And Dean wouldn't have made the deal if Sam hadn't gotten himself killed, and on, and on. For me the same applies here. It's just that I thought that Dean usually wouldn't be that irresponsible, even if he was a vampire, so I thought having him go - and especially go inside - wasn't in character here myself.

 

Concerning not addressing the consequences, the show generally doesn't delve into the consequences like this. I don't think they adequately addressed the consequences that the deal had on Sam in season 4 either - it became more about Ruby and her influence and Sam's bad choices, so at least here I think they were being consistent. Bottom line in both cases was that despite what went before, the final decisions were considered the deciding factor. Sam chose to follow Ruby, so it was on him. Dean irresponsibly went to the house, so the fallout from that was on him. If he'd stayed away, Dean would've been cured without Lisa knowing anything and there wouldn't have been a problem. Easier said than done - sure - but the same might be said of Sam first taking up with Ruby when he was desperate to save Dean.

 

Concerning the trust thing, I don't remember Dean not trusting Sam once he got his soul back. Dean clearly made the distinction between the two - as he should. It was Bobby who had trust issues with Sam when he returned. I also don't remember anyone blaming Dean for not trusting soulless Sam - hell yeah he shouldn't have trusted him. That was pretty much a given, especially after this episode. If you are referring to Bobby, I again say that Bobby didn't know what the hell he was talking about in this case since he couldn't even tell that there was something wrong with Sam to begin with, so whatever Bobby might have said about trusting Sam - and I think he pretty much just said "well maybe that's just Sam" (nice, Bobby; that reflects well on your opinion of Sam, you jerk) was coming from an unreliable narrator. So I'm not sure what blame you are referring to. It was pretty much established, I thought, that Dean's instincts were 100% correct and that his decision to get Sam's soul back was what saved Sam, and Sam was grateful for him doing it, but it's entirely possible I could be missing something.

[catrox14]

For me it's like saying Sam might not have gotten into so much trouble with Ruby if Dean hadn't made the deal

Soulless Sam literally stood by and smiled as Dean was forced against his will to be become a vampire when SS could have stopped it

I just find those things completely different and not comparable . Never said Sam was responsible but SS was. Dean didn't know Sam was soulless when it happened. If SS gets the pass because soulless with out his consent the Dean gets a pass because vamped without his consent and fighting it the best he could

Edited November 23, 2014 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

Soulless Sam gets no pass from me whatsoever. He was completely responsible for what he did. But in my opinion, real Sam wasn't there - he didn't even remember what he'd done while soulless when he did come back - but Sam still felt responsible for some of it.. and apparently even some people - *cough, cough* Bobby - sort of held him responsible.

 

I should agree with you about Dean - and he certainly didn't choose to be a vampire - but Dean was still making choices, and mostly responsible ones too, so it appeared anyway the way it was being written that Dean was in a way still there. (In contrast to soulless Sam who was so very obviously not, and / or obviously missing something major.) Dean was very much making the decision not to drink blood and not to become a monster; he was very much acting like Dean, so that's what makes me unsure how much leeway he should get. Probably he should get more, but it was confusing for me how much in control he seemed to be the rest of the time... which is why I dislike this episode. On one hand, Dean was consciously not feeding and resisting the urge so well and making rational decisions, but the one thing he absolutely shouldn't have done for sure is when he falls down, so why then? Crap, I don't know. I don't know what I'm supposed to think anymore.

 

It appeared that the episode was trying to have it both ways * - Dean heroically resisting being a monster and being strong enough still to kill all of those vampires by himself, but then also not just long enough to do this one thing (it appeared just to create angst) - and that annoyed me. Unlike Dean as a demon - which it was clear that the mark was affecting him much more greatly than he could resist. I guess I'm complaining that I wanted the episode to show me more how Dean was being affected by being a vampire and do it consistently... he was just too much Dean **, I guess, so I'm unfairly thinking he could've made this one more good decision - like all of the others he made - and it made no sense that in that one instance he wouldn't know how he was going to be affected when he had up until that point and then did again after. But maybe that's more the fault of the writing in the episode - which is why I can't really get behind it as a good episode.

 

* In other words, it appeared like the episode both wanted Dean to look heroic and strong and Dean, but then when the plot needed it, all of a sudden, he wasn't... which for me is a cop out. Definitely Miles vary, but this bugged the crap out of me.

 

** It reminds me of that Buffy episode where everyone was affected by nightmares and Buffy was turned into a vampire... the problem was she was still so much just like Buffy that it seemed ridiculous that they even turned her to begin with. On the other hand, in a later episode, when they had vampire Willow and Xander - geesh, there was no doubt whatsoever that these were vampires. They were brutal and cruel and there was no attempt to make them look redeemable at all.

[7kstar]

Soulless Sam gets no pass from me whatsoever. He was completely responsible for what he did. But in my opinion, real Sam wasn't there - he didn't even remember what he'd done while soulless when he did come back - but Sam still felt responsible for some of it.. and apparently even some people - *cough, cough* Bobby - sort of held him responsible.

 

I should agree with you about Dean - and he certainly didn't choose to be a vampire - but Dean was still making choices, and mostly responsible ones too, so it appeared anyway the way it was being written that Dean was in a way still there. (In contrast to soulless Sam who was so very obviously not, and / or obviously missing something major.) Dean was very much making the decision not to drink blood and not to become a monster; he was very much acting like Dean, so that's what makes me unsure how much leeway he should get. Probably he should get more, but it was confusing for me how much in control he seemed to be the rest of the time... which is why I dislike this episode. On one hand, Dean was consciously not feeding and resisting the urge so well and making rational decisions, but the one thing he absolutely shouldn't have done for sure is when he falls down, so why then? Crap, I don't know. I don't know what I'm supposed to think anymore.

 

It appeared that the episode was trying to have it both ways * - Dean heroically resisting being a monster and being strong enough still to kill all of those vampires by himself, but then also not just long enough to do this one thing (it appeared just to create angst) - and that annoyed me. Unlike Dean as a demon - which it was clear that the mark was affecting him much more greatly than he could resist.

 

* In other words, it appeared like the episode both wanted Dean to look heroic and strong and Dean, but then when the plot needed it, all of a sudden, he wasn't... which for me is a cop out. Definitely Miles vary, but this bugged the crap out of me...

 

I don't know why but that opening scene where Dean is turned and Sam watches just pulls me in and I have to re-watch it again.

 

I didn't get upset about the miracle cure and I actually liked Gramps at this point. 

 

For me, I saw Dean trying to resist but knowing that he has to be killed and he just had to see Lisa & Ben one more time.  He had control until Lisa got physically closer then his vampire issues took over.  I don't blame Dean for going and it took a lot of control to leave them and not turn them.  But in fighting that moment he hurt Ben which sealed Lisa being very upset at Dean.  Especially since she didn't know what had happened.

 

Does soulless Sam get a pass, heck NO!  But I can also understand how Dean could subconsciously blame Sam when he came back.  So I like this one even if it is too gory. 

[DittyDotDot]

Even though it wasn't Dean's best idea, I think the urge to make sure Lisa and Ben knew how much they did for him is too hard for him to pass up. Yes, it was fool-hearty, but people do fool-hearty things in the face of dying. In reality, I think it was all set up for Dean to shove Ben so in the next episode Dean and LIsa could have the break-up phone call. 

 

I'm more surprised Dean could escape and travel to Lisa's and back in what seemed like lickity-split time. But then again, Grampy Campbell seemed to get there lightning-fast as well, so maybe it was hours and my perception of time is ways off here.

[ohjoy]

I just have to say that I must really be in love with Dean Winchester, because I hhaaaatttee visible vomit on screen, but the whole "getting turned back" scene is still distractingly fascinating to me (enough that I can't get through the episode without watching it at least twice). Must be the residual of that hot machete action.

[mertensia]

DittyDot I thnk probably Dean was closer than he told Lisa- I can totally see him being an hour away but driving 6 to get to her by going down and arou d all sorts of crazy backroads.

[GirlyGeek]

Good ep for the most part, But, Sam letting Dean get turned was just low and pretty shocking.

Since I hate the way vampire lore is portrayed on this show, I don't mind the cure at all. There has to be some way to stop the stupid way people are turned into vampires. Ugh

I always felt like Dean going to Lisa's was similar to someone jumping in the car and driving when they've had to much to drink, only they don't realize it. Dean knew he was a vamp, but felt in control enough to handle it. It wasn't til Lisa got up close and personal that he realized he was veering off the road.

Plus, MacheteDean wins everytime.

[Demented Daisy]

You know when Dean turns away from Lisa, then his fangs grow in and he says, "I gotta go"?  Cracks me up every time.  He sounds like a whiny teenage boy who just got his first boner.

 

Sorry, I can't help it.

[Hanahope]

So I did love the spoofing on Twilight and some women's stupidity over that whole story.  Yes, I chuckled over the dropped iphone.

And yup, something is definitely up with Sam, and apparently Granddad doesn't know/realize it either, since he didn't know Sam let Dean become a vamp.  But obviously Sam has some clue as to what Grandad and family are up to with these alphas.

[bettername2come]

The Twilight parody is spot-on. Lisa telling Dean to come "home" warms my heart. Vamp just stepping out of the shadows all "You're pretty" is super creepy. I'd forgotten that the audience saw Sam watching Dean get turned. I was thinking that was revealed at the end of the episode when Dean realizes it. Jensen does crazy vampire eyes well. Samuel turning Dean back is the only time I liked the character, along with his seeming disapproval of Sam letting Dean get turned. I do like Dean going undercover. I'd like to see more of that actually, but the Winchesters are too well-known among the monster community. Dead man's blood and the cure are about the only things I like about Supernatural's vampires. I miss Dean in the henley shirts. They made a nice change up from all the plaid. 

One thing that amuses me about this one is that long before this episode aired, I had read a fanfic where Dean gets turned into a vampire and turned back. I'm unconvinced that someone didn't read that beforehand. 

[DittyDotDot]

9 hours ago, bettername2come said:

One thing that amuses me about this one is that long before this episode aired, I had read a fanfic where Dean gets turned into a vampire and turned back. I'm unconvinced that someone didn't read that beforehand. 

Heh, I'm quite certain you're right! ;)

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I recognized a lot of the Twilight parody the first time through (never read the books, but did see most of the movies).  I caught even more references this time around.  

I thought it was interesting how Dean called out the book-vamp watching a girl sleep as pervy (something I used to tell friends who were all into Twilight) and then later Dean is watching Lisa sleep.  I always thought Lisa way over reacted to Dean pushing Ben aside.  She knew he was a hunter.  She knew about the Supernatural.  He warned her repeatedly.  She should have backed off and listened and let him leave.

Jared's portrayal of Sam this episode is wonderful - wonderfully creepy that is.  Even this time, I actually bought his initial 'surprise' to find out Samuel knew of a vampire cure - until I remembered when he was called out by Samuel later.  

Agree with @bettername2come that I actually liked Samuel this ep - especially when he first got to the motel room.  At least Sam did seem genuinely worried after he found out Dean got loose, but I guess that's cause he was only worried that Dean might kill a human.  

Dean was amazing - especially in the nest, but I've got to agree with @AwesomO4000, that Dean's ability to resist the vampire urges didn't seem very consistent.  And I'm talking about just the part when Dean went undercover.  At times, I could tell he was struggling, having a hard time, which was good and made sense.  Then later, especially when he was killing them all, it didn't look like the vampirism was affecting him at all - and I think it should have been.  Even though he hadn't drank human blood yet, I think he still should have felt some 'connection' , and so some remorse to an extent about killing them, to the other vampires who were basically his 'brothers and sisters' then.

The alpha-vamp connection or communicating with all of them at once was kind of interesting.....but also kind of out of left field.  Also, if they all dropped unconscious while getting a message from their 'father', wouldn't that put them all at a disadvantage, especially if they were out in public or already being hunted?  Doesn't seem very efficient to me.  And I was completely confused by what the message was supposed to be, so there's that.  :)  Kill Dean, I guess?  

Dean puking up black liquid after he drank the cure was a good effect.  

[Iju]

On 19/11/2014 at 12:12 AM, AwesomO4000 said:

Not only that, it's sort of in the air now that Dean's going to partially blame this on Sam... who was soulless at the time, so again just no. Hated them having Dean go see Lisa and actually put them in danger by going inside as I don't think he would have. It seemed out of character to me.

soulless? isn't that a spoiler? shouldn't you put that as a spoiler? D:

-----------

sam watching dean get turned just floored me. i can't even...what???? and dean freezing when he saw it in his memories. why why why must we keep beating these two boys in the ground. can't the situation bringing them apart be an outsider for once? ;_; LET THEM LIVE. i mean the way dean tiredly called out "Sammy...." like WHY. WHYYYY...

dean dragging the head over and half standing on it...idk i felt it was too much? but maybe he was so violent because he was in vampire mode, so i can drop it at that.

the parody in the beginning was too delicious. i never saw any of the movies and speed read the first book to laugh at it and that beginning scene was so perfect of the first book. any bashing of twilight i'm 100% for.

[AwesomO4000]

On 4/21/2018 at 2:38 PM, Iju said:

soulless? isn't that a spoiler? shouldn't you put that as a spoiler? D:

Yes, but unfortunately by the time I realized, it was too late to do so. I feel badly, but there is no way for me to edit that post. It's too old now. : (

[Iju]

6 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Yes, but unfortunately by the time I realized, it was too late to do so. I feel badly, but there is no way for me to edit that post. It's too old now. : (

oh well. you guys have done very well on hiding spoilers even amongst yourselves so far, when all know everything anyway. there's bound to be slipups. don't think too hard on it ;)

[The Companion]

If I hadn't been spoiled before, this thread certainly did it. Ah well, the late series binge giveth and it taketh away. 😆

Ugh, watching Sam let Dean get turned was hard. And particularly when the cure wasn't exactly a sure thing. 

I enjoyed the twilight parody, but hated the Dean gets turned plot and most of what followed. I guess, on the bright side, my complaint that the vampires should stop whining about low numbers and start converting people has been heard by management. 😆

The level of control Dean asserted seemed much higher than new converts we have seen because plot reasons. Combined with the random previously unknown cure, there was a lot of reconning or borderline retconning happening imo.

[MagnusHex]

"Oh these aren't vampires, man. These are douchebags." 😂😂

"This is a national bestseller - how it that possible?" I ask myself the same question about the Twilight saga, Dean. But hey, teenagers.

I love that they even referenced Taylor Lautner here. lmao I didn't even watch New Moon (or even seen Taylor in many things) and I got the reference. Best line in the episode might have been "Oh god, I'm Pattinson" by Dean. LMAO

I fell asleep watching Twilight midway... at the theater. Never bothered with any of the sequels. That scene with Edward and Bella in the forest, "I know what you are." "Say it out loud." "Vampireeeee." Christ, the freaking cringe! Glad Pattinson has moved on to greener pastures like becoming a more respectable bat persona. "I know who you are" "SING IT" "THE BATMAAAAN Na na na na na." So obviously, I have no love for Stephenie Myers' legacy, which means I was glad to see Sera Gamble butcher the hell out of those ridiculous books and their sexism that regresses the movement back to Gone with the Wind when rape was a desired thing by women in that movie.

Vampires weren't my favorite of the Universal Monsters Trio (Dracula, The Wolf Man, Frankenstein). The werewolf's always been cooler and scarier because of his bestial nature tearing your throat out (plus, An American Werewolf in London's werewolf is a freaking beast that will make you wet your pants), and Frankenstein's monster is a tragic reflection of humanity's ugliness. Dracula, at least the Bela Lugosi kind, never scared me, and vampires lack the pathos that come with the creature's lore (even the wolf man is a tragic figure), especially their association with Satan and evil. We wanted Wesley Snipes to kill those things, not sympathize with them.

Interview with the Vampire and Anne Rice might prove to be the exception as she gave them the humanity they much needed (then Buffy and Whedon came along to expand that lore and the rest is history), but even though I loved that film (not nearly the Prince Charming with a Volvo Boris is selling), I still couldn't take them seriously, especially with how easy they can be killed by a teenage Slayer (plus, Annie might have inadvertently inspired Stephenie Meyer to create mopey vampires, sooo). They're next to zombies as some of the most boring monsters ever created. Sorry for the tirade, but I just don't care much for vamps.

If it makes you guys feel any better about Sam's spoilers, I saw it somewhere else on Reddit already about his soullessness. Goes to show how easily a decade old TV shows can be spoiled. lol But the important thing is that I still don't know why he's soulless, so that's something for me to find out at least.

The Alpha could go either way, if it's anything like "The First" from Buffy. I liked Buffy's concept of "the first of all evils where all evil came from" (even if it cheapens the idea of evil), but I feel like it was underused despite the hype. I feel like the same thing might happen here with the Alpha, underusing the concept, which would be a shame. Ah well.

Interesting that Skinner/Samuel isn't in on the whole "Sam acting soulless" schtick. Makes me root for Mitch even more. Yay.

Hilarious episode nonetheless. 3.5/5

Next episode sees Dean learning the truth about Sam maybe? Sooner than I expected. I thought we'd have to wait till mid-season, like these plots usually go. If the truth does come out next episode, it's yet one of the many changes to the plot structure I'm liking from Sera Gamble so far.

Edited March 31, 2023 by MagnusHex

[DeeDee79]

9 hours ago, MagnusHex said:

Interview with the Vampire and Anne Rice might prove to be the exception as she gave them the humanity they much neede

Don't forget about The Lost Boys! That movie was immensely entertaining!