S05.E07: Friendless Child

[Pallas]

Interesting...Eli did look shady as well as shamed, and the timing was so very coincidental.  Eli also seemed at a real loss for what to say, or how to react in the situation.  I can see how for Lansky/Lucky, luring Willie out of the courthouse -- and alone -- would make sense.  

 

But how would Lansky/Lucky have found Eli, and most of all, what could they have done to coerce him, at risk to his eldest son? Well, I suppose they could have said that otherwise, they'd take some pleasure in simply rubbing out an assistant D.A. who also happened to be Nucky Thompson's nephew..

[Neurochick]

They showed the back of Narcisse's head in the preview for the series finale.  

 

With any luck, something will go into it.

 

With any luck, Bumpy Johnson will "bump" him off.  

 

I only wish Gillian has been nicer to Richard and not acted like such an evil witch.  I mean she was trying to convince Tommy that SHE was his mother; she probably would have raped him if she'd gotten the chance. 

 

Richard and Gillian would have made quite the pair.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Neurochick

[RealityGal]

Does anyone think that Eli was coerced into going to visit his son?  It just seems odd that Eli happened to be there when his son was getting kidnapped.  Eli was acting all strange, at first I thought he was embarrassed to have his son see him so desolate, but then I starting thinking that his facial expressions were more than shame.  

I felt like Eli was probably on the way to kill himself or get himself killed and wanted to see his son one last time.

[Pallas]

That's how the scene came across to me at the time, RealityGal.  And it's certainly just as good an explanation for Eli's inert pathos.  Watching, I thought we'd then follow him (anywhere but Willie's apartment) and...that would be it.  But then Willie got snatched, and the coincidence was so...strident, I liked TVDivaQueen's notion that it might be no coincidence at all.  And how that theory also fit Eli's demeanor.  

 

But probably not, if only because there's not enough narrative time left to devote even a moment to making that clear to us.  So, "Folks, you've got one hour left until Boardwalk's own Hays Act goes into effect.  Bottoms up, and damn the contrivances."

[hincandenza]

I have to say, this episode kind of confused me on a lot of plot points.

So was Johnny Torrio in on it the whole time? Did he eventually get lured out of retirement due to boredom- and if so, when, and by whom? He seemed ambivalent about Nucky's near-death a couple of episodes, yet enthusiastic about Maranzano's death, despite how dismissive Lansky and Lucky were to him as clearly an advisor *only*.

I am also confused as to when and why Nucky even became a threat to the NYC mafia; it's unclear what leverage or impact any of his bootlegging had by 1931, but he would have been at least an ally of necessity to Lucciano for years at this point. Nucky only reached out to Maranzano and vowed to kill Lucciano et al... because they tried to kill him, twice!

I seem to recall that in the real history, Nucky Johnson helped broker/host a big meeting in 1929 in Atlantic City for all the mob bigwigs to help set up a truce and end the public violence such as Capone's excesses in Chicago; this is considered the start of the organized, national crime syndicate run by Lucciano and others for decades to come. Obviously the fictional Nucky is not the same at all, but that's quite a switch from the real-life basis to make Lucciano somehow gunning for Nucky in 1931.

And on that front, Nucky has terrible luck with trusting Italians. Why did he think that night time meeting would end any other way, and why would he then trust them to return Will unharmed, no matter what promises they made?!? He's not that dumb, and yet... here we are.

Along with that, if Nucky can in sheer desperation plan and dispatch a beautifully designed assassination of Maranzano in his own office, in a whole other state, all in apparently less than 16 hours total (from night time to mid-afternoon)... why didn't he do that with Lucciano ages ago? And shouldn't Lansky and Lucciano be thinking, "Daaamn, we better play nicer with Nucky, that old dog still got some tricks!". Maybe that explains why they actually gave back Will.

But now, without that leverage, why would Nucky keep his word and just give them his empire in Atlantic City? Eli and Will need to flee anyway, they're never going to be safe, and Nucky has no one else they can touch. Truthfully: he has nothing and no one else to lose, so he might as well go scorched earth on the NYC mafia, not unlike Walter White. That didn't seem to be his plan at the end of the last episode, though.

I guess I just don't see where this all is going next week, without either rewriting actual known history, or suddenly ditching 5 years of empire building as unimportant for a finale episode focused on Nucky's regrets and personal legacy.

[ChipBach]

I guess I just don't see where this all is going next week, without either rewriting actual known history, or suddenly ditching 5 years of empire building as unimportant for a finale episode focused on Nucky's regrets and personal legacy.

 

Maybe they will go full-on "Inglourious Basterds" and Nucky will machine gun down the entire New York and Chicago crew?  Seem's like a lot to wrap up in one hour, I can't wait...

[Kyanite]

Wow. I was just about to say how ludicrous it seemed that there was a black female lawyer working at the US attorney's office in 1931. Did not seem realistic to me. Then again, the female FBI agent was also based on a real character, and I thought that was purely fictional too.

Based on the time line I would think the character better fits Jane Bolin as opposed to Mabel Walker Willebrandt. Nice to read about both of them, I just added two new hero's to my all-time-hero-list...

The black lawyer might be Eunice Carter http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunice_Carter

It is great to know there were women in positions of authority of all colours.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Kyanite

[vesperholly]

A little early for Eunice Carter (she was ADA in 1935) but that fits pretty darn good. Mabel Walker Willebrandt is the inspiration for fed Esther Randolph.

 

I love learning about kickass women of history and it's great the show is making a point to feature them.

[RealityGal]

A little early for Eunice Carter (she was ADA in 1935) but that fits pretty darn good. Mabel Walker Willebrandt is the inspiration for fed Esther Randolph.

 

I love learning about kickass women of history and it's great the show is making a point to feature them.

 

And they are so accessible.  A lot of times shows go out of their way to show these groundbreaking women as bitches or hardasses, but these two women have been portrayed as friendly, humble and intelligent.  

[editorgrrl]

Again though, the casting is insane.  Young Gillian really looked the part, and there were times where the actress delivered lines the same way Gretchen Mol does.  This honestly might be some of the best "flashbacks" I've ever seen on any TV show.

 

I think the flashback casting has been absolutely stellar. Not only did that little actress have Gillian's cadence down, but even her tone of voice was spot-on. Really impressive finds for all of the key characters in flashback.

 

Who the hell was that playing the young Nucky? He had the voice, look and mannerisms down cold.

 

ETA: Looked it up, his name's Marc Pickering.

 

The line readings by & mannerisms of both Marc Pickering (Deputy Sheriff Enoch Thompson) and Madeleine Rose Yen (young Gillian) are so good that I suspect Gretchen Mol and Steve Buscemi perform the pages for the younger actors to imitate. (Perhaps on video?)

[DeniseCh]

BTW, the real Nellie Bly, undercover reporter, checked herself into an insane asylum to check out the horrendous conditions that the patients were subjected to.

[terrymct]

I think the big series arc for Nucky is going to be that bringing Gillian to the Commodore was the changing point in his life.  Up to that point, he'd been in the shallow end of bad things swimming pool including this week's taking that poor little girl home and bribing her mother.  When he walks Gillian into the Commodore's house, he dives right on into the deep end.   The build up with Mabel this week likely means that she's tied to this as well, maybe suffering a miscarriage when she figures out what Nucky did?

[lucindabelle]

Thanks for the Eunice carter reference! Pretty sure that was the name in the recap where I found it. Yes I guess she isn't quite Eunice carter but that carter was ex inspiration (since it doesn't appear carter practiced in nj). I too love that he show goes out of its way to break some preconceived ideas about history.l. Hat there were not just women but black women who were educated and employed. Carter was an Ada... She didn't just pass the bar she was downright respected. Who knew? Well now we all do. Go show!

[Cherpumple]

I'm so sad that there's only one episode left! I'm definitely not ready to say goodbye, and feel like there are going to be a lot of unanswered questions. Damn this short season!!! As cheesy as it is, I'm almost hoping for a "what happened next" montage for each character. I also echo hincandenza's confusion about some of the plot points and really wish there had been another season covering 1927-29 to flesh these things out. Oh well, what might have been.

 

A few comments about this episode:

 

- I'm so happy that Mickey Doyle died as he lived- trying to weasel his way to a better deal. Don't ever change Mickey!

 

- I got the impression that Margaret was being a little flirty with Nucky on the phone, but alas, with only one episode left I don't think that anything will come of that.

 

- I'm confused about both Willie and Eli's true intentions. I thought we saw Willie talking with Nucky in an earlier episode, which made me think that his work for the feds was just a cover, but now I'm not so sure. And I agree that Eli was acting strange when they met up, and assumed it was either due to his deteriorated mental and physical states or that he was planning to kill himself now that he knew that Willie was ok. But I can see how the timing of their visit looks suspicious. I just don't know what to think about those two, and I never liked Willie last season and can't really get a read on the actor, so I'm not sure what he's actually thinking. This is a perfect example of where another season would've been beneficial- to see how Willie mentally processed the whole roommate incident over the years. As it stands, I have no idea if he's wracked with guilt or if he thinks the ends justified the means and is grateful to Nucky. I don't really care, but it's still a loose end for me.

 

- I liked seeing Nucky and Eli so easily falling back in to working together. They may still hate each other, but they certainly understand each other and it was as though no time had passed.

 

- I'm still hoping that Joe is Tommy Darmody, but agree that it seems unlikely at this point. He's already served a narrative function (a parallel to young Nucky) and it wouldn't make a huge amount of sense for him to actually be Tommy, but it would add some nice symmetry, and if nothing else, that guy REALLY looks like he could be the offspring of Jimmy and Angela.

 

- Oh Gillian, you're breaking my heart. I can't believe that that poor, lonely little girl would have a baby in less than a year. It was bad enough knowing how old she was when she got pregnant, but actually seeing how young and vulnerable she was is horrifying. And knowing the extent of the Commodore's proclivities, and the collusion involved in covering them up is disgusting. Not that I thought Gillian's rape was an isolated incident, or that he mistakenly thought she was much older (of course, that doesn't excuse the fact that he raped her), but knowing how calculated it was, and how much foreknowledge Nucky had, puts a different spin on things for me. Also, I agree that the younger actress is doing a great job, and noticed that both young and present-day Gillian had the same haircut, which only added to the likeness.

 

- Finally, Gillian's letter definitely made me tear up. I agree that Nucky might reach out to her and find out he's too late (she's either been lobotomised or is dead), in which case I don't know if he would be relieved or if it would push him over the edge. But I also considered that they might see each other again, and if this whole season has been about coming full circle for Nucky, I had a brief notion that they would go out together in a murder/suicide. That would certainly be unexpected, considering I thought we were done with her last season.

 

I can't believe how much I'm going to miss this show! : (

Edited October 26, 2014 by Cherpumple

[Pallas]

Some thoughts on hincandenza's great post.

 

So was Johnny Torrio in on it the whole time? Did he eventually get lured out of retirement due to boredom- and if so, when, and by whom? He seemed ambivalent about Nucky's near-death a couple of episodes, yet enthusiastic about Maranzano's death, despite how dismissive Lansky and Lucky were to him as clearly an advisor *only*.

 

My guess is that Torrio was unwilling to forego the thrill of being on the inside of the business, the gratification of being consulted by the (younger) men now on the rise.  He may have been pleased when Nucky reached out to him, but also recognized that Nucky wasn't likely to come out ahead.  And by allying with Luciano/Lansky against both Nucky and Maranzano, he not only chose the likely victors, but also gained the pleasure of becoming the only member of the old guard to survive the conflict.  

 

I am also confused as to when and why Nucky even became a threat to the NYC mafia; it's unclear what leverage or impact any of his bootlegging had by 1931, but he would have been at least an ally of necessity to Lucciano for years at this point. Nucky only reached out to Maranzano and vowed to kill Lucciano et al... because they tried to kill him, twice!  I seem to recall that in the real history, Nucky Johnson helped broker/host a big meeting in 1929 in Atlantic City for all the mob bigwigs to help set up a truce and end the public violence such as Capone's excesses in Chicago; this is considered the start of the organized, national crime syndicate run by Lucciano and others for decades to come. Obviously the fictional Nucky is not the same at all, but that's quite a switch from the real-life basis to make Lucciano somehow gunning for Nucky in 1931.

 

Chiefs like their fiefs.  Monopolists like their monopolies.  These young pups have grown up to be methodically omnivorous.  And Nucky had previously thwarted Lansky, Lucciano and even their mentor Rothstein: he is an irksome witness and reminder of their past mistakes and vulnerabilities.    

 

And on that front, Nucky has terrible luck with trusting Italians. Why did he think that night time meeting would end any other way, and why would he then trust them to return Will unharmed, no matter what promises they made?!? He's not that dumb, and yet... here we are.  Along with that, if Nucky can in sheer desperation plan and dispatch a beautifully designed assassination of Maranzano in his own office, in a whole other state, all in apparently less than 16 hours total (from night time to mid-afternoon)... why didn't he do that with Lucciano ages ago? And shouldn't Lansky and Lucciano be thinking, "Daaamn, we better play nicer with Nucky, that old dog still got some tricks!". Maybe that explains why they actually gave back Will.

 

The botched prisoner exchange seems to have impromptu: Benny Siegel's improvisation.  I loved your pointing out how impressive/improbable was Nucky's putting together the Maranzano killing in that timeframe.  Just getting Eli cleaned up and buttoned down enough to look the part of a Treasury officer was quite the feat...

 

But without knowing anything about how criminal organization's transfer ownership, I'm guessing that Nucky's political reach and depth -- the difference in the nature of his power base, and the distance from  New York City -- make it necessary or at least expedient that Nucky personally work the transfer. His opponents have his word that he'll make the calls, for the price of a saved bullet.  (Or, perhaps, Willie made the deal for himself that Mickey Doyle died trying to pull off.) 

 

But now, without that leverage, why would Nucky keep his word and just give them his empire in Atlantic City? Eli and Will need to flee anyway, they're never going to be safe, and Nucky has no one else they can touch. Truthfully: he has nothing and no one else to lose, so he might as well go scorched earth on the NYC mafia, not unlike Walter White. That didn't seem to be his plan at the end of the last episode, though.

 

Nucky has nothing and no one else to lose, is right, I think.  He wants out of the past three decades of his life.  Where he once burned down his father's house, now he wants to burn down his own.  It's not his enemies he hates.  

 

I guess I just don't see where this all is going next week, without either rewriting actual known history, or suddenly ditching 5 years of empire building as unimportant for a finale episode focused on Nucky's regrets and personal legacy.

 

But we've had several years of Nucky's turning against his empire, accelerated throughout this final season as he turns on his memories. For about half the length of the series, Nucky has been alternately passive -- only reacting to newly introduced threats like Rossetti , Narcisse or the Feds -- or ambivalent, as he considered moving to Florida, or setting himself up for repeal.  

 

His heart's not in it.  I'd mark his change of heart from the aftermath of his killing Jimmy, which indirectly helped inspire Margaret to sign away the highway land bonanza (when Nucky baldly lied to her about Jimmy's whereabouts), which then ramped up their cold war, which eventually led to Margaret's leaving with the children, since which time Nucky has been in a funk, sometimes relieved by defensive maneuvers. This season, we've been forced to immerse ourselves in his longtime malaise, because the show chose to center the narrative on him again.  

 

The first image of the show was Nucky's gazing into the boardwalk shop window at the weird incubated newborn dolls. That was 11 years ago (and already 22 years since Mabel's suicide). Later that day he met with Gillian, who asked his help.  Nucky was already still back there, lamenting the legacy he lost and gained before the turn of the last century.  

[loki567]

So basically Nucky's always been half a gangster? Seems about right.

 

It's funny that Nucky, Margaret, and Gillian were always my least liked characters, now they almost literally all that's left of the main cast. And at the end, I find myself worrying for them and hoping that they can come out on the other end okay. This has been a good final season. I think the flashbacks really have done a lot to get us into Nucky's head. 

[ganesh]

The botched prisoner exchange seems to have impromptu: Benny Siegel's improvisation.

 

No Luciano planned this all along. He called out to Seigel right before they actually exchanged and told him what to do right in front of him. It was just in another language. Nucky was short sighted to think Luciano wouldn't have pulled something like this, which is why he said, "I underestimated you."

[bunnywithanaxe]

And I was appalled at the duplicity, until Lucciano said," Name one person you haven't fucked over," upon which I thought, "he's got a point..."

[hincandenza]

Some thoughts on hincandenza's great post.

(snip)

 

Sorry I snipped the entire post, I just wanted to quote it so you knew I read it and enjoyed it.  :)

 

I really want to thank you for making some really insightful observations; it does help clarify things more (guess I'm no good at thinking like a gangster, but you're right- it's in Lucky's nature to be omnivorous and never satisfied).  You've given me a lot to ponder this afternoon, before tonight's episode!

[Avaleigh]

I agree that the younger actress is doing a great job, and noticed that both young and present-day Gillian had the same haircut, which only added to the likeness.

 

- Finally, Gillian's letter definitely made me tear up. I agree that Nucky might reach out to her and find out he's too late (she's either been lobotomised or is dead)

l also brought this up but over in the Gillian thread. I was surprised that young Gillian didn't have long hair like most girls would have had back then and I was thinking that maybe the short hair was because she'd just come from the orphanage and it made me envision it as being sort of like what happened at the orphanage in Jane Eyre since Gillian made it sound like the place was run by a bunch of religious fanatics. It made me consider that maybe hair cutting was a form of punishment at the orphanage and one of the reasons life at the orphanage may have been especially difficult for Gillian is because I got the impression that she might have been an out of wedlock child maybe even born to a prostitute and that's why the people at the orphanage were always ranting at her about sin.

Another thing that I realized is that Gillian actually talks about the place for "friendless children" late in the fourth season and says that she wants to make sure that Tommy is never sent to a place like that because she "knows what it's like". I don't think I understood then that she'd been referring to her time in the orphanage but now it seems obvious.

[Pallas]

The botched prisoner exchange seems to have impromptu: Benny Siegel's improvisation.

 

No Luciano planned this all along. He called out to Seigel right before they actually exchanged and told him what to do right in front of him. It was just in another language. Nucky was short sighted to think Luciano wouldn't have pulled something like this, which is why he said, "I underestimated you."

 

Ah, thank you!   More evidence of why eyewitnesses are suspect.  I was immersed in the atmosphere and missed the plot.  

[NutMeg]

Another thing that I realized is that Gillian actually talks about the place for "friendless children" late in the fourth season and says that she wants to make sure that Tommy is never sent to a place like that because she "knows what it's like".

 

Thanks for this, that's why I love this forum! I'll look for it when I rewatch. Can't believe it's ended :-( 

 

OT but I swear I'm not dyslexic but whenever I saw the title of this thread before the episode aired I saw it as "Childless friend". Dont' know why... Maybe I was seeing Nucky by default??